As for Healing depression, I really cant stress this enough. I think 50% was WAY too harsh.... Something like a 25-30% nerf would be MORE than enough. Think about it this way....
if people run tenacity they gain about 20% more base DR and crits do 20% less dmg. Even the BEST player has less than 50% crit so lets just say 20% base DR plus 50% *20% less crit dmg = a total of 30% more tanky on AVERAGE.
If players are 30% more tanky, heals should be 30% less effective to equal out....
The other thing to consider as well, when you nerf damage by 30-40% Lifesteal ALREADY is nerfed 30-40% because of the reduction of damage, so there is literally NO need to incorporate that into the depression...
Temp HP? Sure but 50% seems harsh, 30% seems reasonable
Regen? Heck Ya! 50% is a little harsh though... 30% seems more reasonable...
Lifesteal? Doesnt make sense - its getting a DOUBLE nerf... This shouldnt be touched by depression...
Soulforged? Makes no sense, you pop back up with 2k HP to just die? So thanks on this one for adjusting it back!
Potions? I like that its left alone 5k heal every few minutes is nothing
Artifacts? the healing ones were already too strong so sure, I think the nerf here would help open more choices in pvp.
DC heals? Like mentioned above, maybe 30% reduction to be inline with the 30% tankiness from tenacity. 50% a DC (the HEALER) cant even really heal anyone in pvp... Most of the DCs I know LOVE playing it because they want to heal people, you just removed that attractive aspect to the game.
I used to play with a DC (most people know her) I know she spent some money on this game (as an understatement) not just on gear but cosmetics and mounts and such, she was a VERY big supporter of the game and played a Healing DC. Once the healing depression went to PTR she quit the game. Thats how big of a nerf this was to that type of play...
I would strongly encourage you to revisit the severity of depression....
tenacity? Good. Healing Depression? Not so good right now...
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dante123plMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 282Arc User
As for Healing depression, I really cant stress this enough. I think 50% was WAY too harsh.... Something like a 25-30% nerf would be MORE than enough. Think about it this way....
if people run tenacity they gain about 20% more base DR and crits do 20% less dmg. Even the BEST player has less than 50% crit so lets just say 20% base DR plus 50% *20% less crit dmg = a total of 30% more tanky on AVERAGE.
If players are 30% more tanky, heals should be 30% less effective to equal out....
The other thing to consider as well, when you nerf damage by 30-40% Lifesteal ALREADY is nerfed 30-40% because of the reduction of damage, so there is literally NO need to incorporate that into the depression...
Temp HP? Sure but 50% seems harsh, 30% seems reasonable
Regen? Heck Ya! 50% is a little harsh though... 30% seems more reasonable...
Lifesteal? Doesnt make sense - its getting a DOUBLE nerf... This shouldnt be touched by depression...
Soulforged? Makes no sense, you pop back up with 2k HP to just die? So thanks on this one for adjusting it back!
Potions? I like that its left alone 5k heal every few minutes is nothing
Artifacts? the healing ones were already too strong so sure, I think the nerf here would help open more choices in pvp.
DC heals? Like mentioned above, maybe 30% reduction to be inline with the 30% tankiness from tenacity. 50% a DC (the HEALER) cant even really heal anyone in pvp... Most of the DCs I know LOVE playing it because they want to heal people, you just removed that attractive aspect to the game.
I used to play with a DC (most people know her) I know she spent some money on this game (as an understatement) not just on gear but cosmetics and mounts and such, she was a VERY big supporter of the game and played a Healing DC. Once the healing depression went to PTR she quit the game. Thats how big of a nerf this was to that type of play...
I would strongly encourage you to revisit the severity of depression....
tenacity? Good. Healing Depression? Not so good right now...
agreed with all u wrote 50% is just too much players with low hp and low regen will get 1-2 shoted no matter how much tenacity they have, sf ill be quite useless since u can get killed by just 1 at will hit after it proc,clerics ill be an joke they wont keep themself alive nor pt. Healing Depression definitely need to be reworked, also it shouldnt affect healing weapon/armor enchantments this is just plain stupid
also it shouldnt affect healing weapon/armor enchantments this is just plain stupid
Thats another great point... Lifedrinker enchant and the bloodtheft enchant should also NOT be affected by healing depression as well.
Its my understanding you heal for the amount of damage delt. With Lifedrinker this would (im guessing) factor in tenacity since DR impacts it. Also Bloodtheft deals damage based on level and heals you for that amount this also would be affected.
Just as a point of reference, any damage DEALING ability that returns life should not be affected by healing depression since the damage is nerfed already, so a healing depression is a DOUBLE nerf.
So lifesteal/blood theft/lifedrinker and anything else like that where heal is based upon damage should NOT have depression.
Agree on that, in general. Personally, i'd like to see some build variety for CWs. Now people just seems to be stuck with thaumaturge-meatball spamming. For a good bunch of reasons, ofc: 15-20k crits, long prone duration (which blocks target's ability to deflect and use CC-imunity mechanics) and on top of that it's one of the few spells, affected by arpen. Toogud.
Healing Depression and regen: I think part of the reason healing depression especially regen is reduced 50% is to prevent the prior unkillable GWF Sentinal and Regen DC situation that is present now. If you only reduce the regen = Tenacity DR then it doesn't change anything. Actually it would get even worse since Crit severity and CC is reduced also.
Healing Depression and Lifesteal: Lifesteal perhaps may not need quite as much a nerf as regen. It is true that Tenacity reduces lifesteal on top of the healing depression which is a good point. Lifesteal could be rather useful to some builds but how much reduction it takes to make a build good vs op is something that would require more testing. Not sure how difficult it would be to code one stat different than the others though which may be part of the issue.
Healing Depression and the DC: I can see the complaints on the inability to run a heal based DC within the new system. I know that a buff style DC can be very hard to kill with tenacity but so far its the only build I've seen particularly effective at the moment. A lot of DC players have gotten upset due not having any build options. Perhaps a 2.5 pvp set bonus that sacrifices survivability for a way to boost healing over tenacity.
All in all I agree with the Healing Depression. I think one of the largest issues is that a lot of the old builds don't work under the new system. A lot of people are upset because the builds that they run no longer have the strength they used to. I have found however that there are alternate builds for more than one class that have gained some punch under the new system. Now if we can just make sure there is more than one viable spec for every class.
Personally, I think healing depression is fine as it is except for affecting things which do not currently provide significant healing effects like regen. Ex: bloodtheft, lifedrinker, life steal stat
50% is fine. It could definitely be argued that regen shouldn't even be active during combat, but ultimately regen is still incredibly useful as it will tick for ~1k hp every 3 seconds, not to mention it will allow you to heal without needing pots between fights. Personally I still like keeping my regen on PTR rather than other alternatives because it is still effective.
50% is steep, but it feels right and is definitely necessary to bring regen onto the same level as the rest of the stats. It is definitely necessary to balance out GWF too.
PLZ, increase warriors and rogues perma imm/stea the poor they get killed easily in this game
They have no chance these players. I am sad for them.
And please, do not add any pvp content, the two maps we have more than sufficient. It has so much content that is not pvp or give head knows. You are too generous.
Thanks to you, Teso and GW will go bankrupt. Keep it up, thank you!
(Google trad)
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silverkeltMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,235Arc User
edited February 2014
:mad:As a High Prophet, Plaguefire DC, that tried to work in tandem with targets, this is awful, just terrible news for the DC class, my goal was to target anyone and hit 3 times, while trying to survive and heal as much as possible, normally I would be insta-cc'd to death most of the time as it is.
WE are talking about 90% less incoming heals, MAYBE 5-10% of all DCs were set up to be unkillable, the vast majority of us do both PVE and PVP and this is just a awful nerf to us individually, as it was we were nothing but middle of the pack 4-5th on the class charts on normal pugs, this moves us to deadlast with all except those set up for pure PVP to be able to really do anything. Even if this healing depression goes to 30%, DCs would be at 70%!
HATE these changes, I think DCs should have a petition thread, this is way overly harsh on the class as a general nerf. Other classes are affected much less then the normal DC is going to be. If they are going to keep these nerfs, they should at least remove righteousness from the class, this at least puts us on par with the other classes, not nerfhammer us into the ground.
Did anyone at cryptic even think about this! What exactly was wrong with the way matches handled now? I never felt overpowered thats for sure!
I forwarded the comment on lifesteal and bloodtheft effects being affected by Healing Depression to the developers, it is a good point that it is possibly receiving more than the intended reduction in effect since both damage and healing are lower.
I forwarded the comment on lifesteal and bloodtheft effects being affected by Healing Depression to the developers, it is a good point that it is possibly receiving more than the intended reduction in effect since both damage and healing are lower.
Thanks for listening guys... seriously.
And thanks for being willing to take the time to play with us tomorrow! It really says alot about the game when you guys do this.
Lifedrinker is way too strong if not affected by depression... i remind u that it is close to 300 hps for a gwf. Also soulforge atm is out of control as it shuts down all your hard work as an assassin: i hit my rotation on some low hp target and i expect it to stay dead and not get bk up. As a glasscannon i cant stay too much in the same spot to wait for a gwf to come bk up, heal for 10k, activate the artifact and crash me with lifedrinker. I have to remind you that a gwf will have 50-60% cc reduction while also puts 30% slow on you, so everyclass other than a gwf will have to use an elven enchant while gwf will have free access to a soulforge... how is that fair?!
Lifedrinker is way too strong if not affected by depression... i remind u that it is close to 300 hps for a gwf.
Can you please explain to me how you are getting 300 HP from Lifedrinker? As far as I am aware, even a Perfect is only 8.8% of weapon damage. What weapon in game offers 3200 weapon damage?
Foundry - Fight Club? (nw-dluqbofu7)
- JailBreak (in development)
Can you please explain to me how you are getting 300 HP from Lifedrinker? As far as I am aware, even a Perfect is only 8.8% of weapon damage. What weapon in game offers 3200 weapon damage?
The one that can attack 3 times per sec (make that 4times if u double tap it on last hit) while in Unstoppable with Sure Strike. Add on that the lifesteal and u;ll get to 600 hps easy.
forevertanfangMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 5Arc User
edited February 2014
Something should be done about the TR Perm stealth while in PvP. Because, they are virtually immune to all Knockbacks as they are now and this patch will make them virtually unkillable. I don't mind fighting them. but, come on, after 20 seconds of them pounding on me and not come out of stealth is totally unfair and when i do find them and nail them with a powerful attack i always get the "Immune" sign over thier heads.
There should be a way to knock them out of stealth mode.
Comments
As for Healing Depression here is my feedback
As for Healing depression, I really cant stress this enough. I think 50% was WAY too harsh.... Something like a 25-30% nerf would be MORE than enough. Think about it this way....
if people run tenacity they gain about 20% more base DR and crits do 20% less dmg. Even the BEST player has less than 50% crit so lets just say 20% base DR plus 50% *20% less crit dmg = a total of 30% more tanky on AVERAGE.
If players are 30% more tanky, heals should be 30% less effective to equal out....
The other thing to consider as well, when you nerf damage by 30-40% Lifesteal ALREADY is nerfed 30-40% because of the reduction of damage, so there is literally NO need to incorporate that into the depression...
Temp HP? Sure but 50% seems harsh, 30% seems reasonable
Regen? Heck Ya! 50% is a little harsh though... 30% seems more reasonable...
Lifesteal? Doesnt make sense - its getting a DOUBLE nerf... This shouldnt be touched by depression...
Soulforged? Makes no sense, you pop back up with 2k HP to just die? So thanks on this one for adjusting it back!
Potions? I like that its left alone 5k heal every few minutes is nothing
Artifacts? the healing ones were already too strong so sure, I think the nerf here would help open more choices in pvp.
DC heals? Like mentioned above, maybe 30% reduction to be inline with the 30% tankiness from tenacity. 50% a DC (the HEALER) cant even really heal anyone in pvp... Most of the DCs I know LOVE playing it because they want to heal people, you just removed that attractive aspect to the game.
I used to play with a DC (most people know her) I know she spent some money on this game (as an understatement) not just on gear but cosmetics and mounts and such, she was a VERY big supporter of the game and played a Healing DC. Once the healing depression went to PTR she quit the game. Thats how big of a nerf this was to that type of play...
I would strongly encourage you to revisit the severity of depression....
tenacity? Good. Healing Depression? Not so good right now...
Thats another great point... Lifedrinker enchant and the bloodtheft enchant should also NOT be affected by healing depression as well.
Its my understanding you heal for the amount of damage delt. With Lifedrinker this would (im guessing) factor in tenacity since DR impacts it. Also Bloodtheft deals damage based on level and heals you for that amount this also would be affected.
Just as a point of reference, any damage DEALING ability that returns life should not be affected by healing depression since the damage is nerfed already, so a healing depression is a DOUBLE nerf.
So lifesteal/blood theft/lifedrinker and anything else like that where heal is based upon damage should NOT have depression.
https://www.youtube.com/user/ThePatomalo/videos
Healing Depression and Lifesteal: Lifesteal perhaps may not need quite as much a nerf as regen. It is true that Tenacity reduces lifesteal on top of the healing depression which is a good point. Lifesteal could be rather useful to some builds but how much reduction it takes to make a build good vs op is something that would require more testing. Not sure how difficult it would be to code one stat different than the others though which may be part of the issue.
Healing Depression and the DC: I can see the complaints on the inability to run a heal based DC within the new system. I know that a buff style DC can be very hard to kill with tenacity but so far its the only build I've seen particularly effective at the moment. A lot of DC players have gotten upset due not having any build options. Perhaps a 2.5 pvp set bonus that sacrifices survivability for a way to boost healing over tenacity.
All in all I agree with the Healing Depression. I think one of the largest issues is that a lot of the old builds don't work under the new system. A lot of people are upset because the builds that they run no longer have the strength they used to. I have found however that there are alternate builds for more than one class that have gained some punch under the new system. Now if we can just make sure there is more than one viable spec for every class.
50% is fine. It could definitely be argued that regen shouldn't even be active during combat, but ultimately regen is still incredibly useful as it will tick for ~1k hp every 3 seconds, not to mention it will allow you to heal without needing pots between fights. Personally I still like keeping my regen on PTR rather than other alternatives because it is still effective.
50% is steep, but it feels right and is definitely necessary to bring regen onto the same level as the rest of the stats. It is definitely necessary to balance out GWF too.
They have no chance these players. I am sad for them.
And please, do not add any pvp content, the two maps we have more than sufficient. It has so much content that is not pvp or give head knows. You are too generous.
Thanks to you, Teso and GW will go bankrupt. Keep it up, thank you!
(Google trad)
WE are talking about 90% less incoming heals, MAYBE 5-10% of all DCs were set up to be unkillable, the vast majority of us do both PVE and PVP and this is just a awful nerf to us individually, as it was we were nothing but middle of the pack 4-5th on the class charts on normal pugs, this moves us to deadlast with all except those set up for pure PVP to be able to really do anything. Even if this healing depression goes to 30%, DCs would be at 70%!
HATE these changes, I think DCs should have a petition thread, this is way overly harsh on the class as a general nerf. Other classes are affected much less then the normal DC is going to be. If they are going to keep these nerfs, they should at least remove righteousness from the class, this at least puts us on par with the other classes, not nerfhammer us into the ground.
Did anyone at cryptic even think about this! What exactly was wrong with the way matches handled now? I never felt overpowered thats for sure!
Thanks for listening guys... seriously.
And thanks for being willing to take the time to play with us tomorrow! It really says alot about the game when you guys do this.
- JailBreak (in development)
The one that can attack 3 times per sec (make that 4times if u double tap it on last hit) while in Unstoppable with Sure Strike. Add on that the lifesteal and u;ll get to 600 hps easy.
There should be a way to knock them out of stealth mode.