well, "The Destroyer is a torrent of unfettered rage and anger que deals a crushing amount of damage on the foe is Likely to Survive." it's official, then my observation remains valid...
edit: anyway, is the closest we have to know what to expect from each class in the online game. or creates an "official" wiki, or remains valid accept this as an official wiki.
I don't PVP but have two rogues using 'PVP' sets in PVE currently. As I understand it, my MI in the Skulker set will be unaffected, but my WK in Scavenger will need to replace her armor?
"We have always been at war with Dread Vault" ~ Little Brother
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nwnghostMember, Moderators, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
1) For GWFs the T2 is actually better than the T2.5. Why? The T2 2pc set bonus is +1800 HP where the T2.5 is +460 crit... This it makes stacking 2, 2pc set bonuses for +3600 HP much better than any of the other sets.
The character I have on LIVE jsut from xfering GG gear into PVP gear can already have BIS setup with no farming, since the T2.5 gear is worthless to me...
SUGGESTION: THis comes from a place of balance. Change ALL the 2pc set bonuses to crit instead of HP. Yes its less HP, but its also more inline with other classes. On my GWF stacking 2 2pc set bonuses I am averaging 42-43k HP with VERY nice offensive stats. This would also create incentive to try and upgrade to the T2.5 sets because the set bonuses are the same....
2) For GFs the Indom Grim gear offers very attractive stats: HP/Power/Defense/Decflect - but the T2.5 for this "equiv" gear set is the Tactician setup. The T2.5 offers no Deflect so again its actually WORSE than the T2 setup. It makes NO incentive to farm the T2.5 gear.
SUGGESTION: Change the tactician so it has the same set stats as the Indom Grim set.
3) I also have noticed that NONE of the weapons have any set bonuses. I think its kinda lame that ATLEAST the T2.5 weapons dont have set bonuses... It completely destroys the advantage of farming the T2.5 weapon if you lose out on any set bonuses...
Suggestion: Give the T2.5 weapons Set Bonuses.
4) I have also noticed the T2.5 weapons have the same "TOP END" damage as the T2 weapons, again, not much incentive to upgrade to those....
SUGGESTION: Make the T2.5 weapons on par (damage range) with the Dread Legion damage (slightly lower than the Formorian or Falled Dragon damage range) This combined with the set bonuses for the weapons create ALOT of incentive to try and get those weapons.
5) The Rings/Neck/Belt seemed to have taken a MASSIVE nerf from previous offered gear. I love the multiple tier items, but the gear choices seem so sub-par they arent even worth getting on most characters...
Suggestion: Revert these to be MORE like previous versions. I really liked the idea of the ancients neck which offers +154 Power/Crit/ARP Would have a PVP counter part (T2.5) That would offer say +140 Power/Crit/ARP and +90 tenacity.
It just seems you have to give up too much good stuff to get tenacity....
OVERALL: I was very impressed with most of what I saw, I really appreciate the multiple tiers of gear sets and multiple choices for each tier. The suggestions above would make them all MUCH more attractive because based on my initial testing, on BOTH my "main characters" there is no reason to upgrade to T2.5 NOR is there any reason to get weapons NOR is there any reason to get rings/belt/neck...
I can get plenty of Tenacity without those pieces and just the T2 gear (19.2%) It was just a big disappointment to learn there were not going to be any upgrades that I was looking forward to farming on my characters....
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nwnghostMember, Moderators, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited February 2014
I disagree on the weapons and the accessory slots ayroux.
For weapons, if the PvP weapons had better stats than the PvE ones with exception of the crafted types, there would be no incentive to do PvE as a PvPer, while PvErs still have to do PvP to get some nice set bonuses.
On accessories, the previous versions were too powerful. Tenacity should have the same value as any other Stat 1:1. So 1 power = 1 tenacity. I don't see why the gear should have a lot of base stats + a lot of tenacity on top. Tenacity is a very powerful stat and noone would use PvP accessories in PvE anyway.
The way it is now, those coming from PvE have a chance (though at a slight disadvantage) to compete in PvE gear against others who wear PvP gear as opposed to being completely outclassed as per your suggestion on the accessories.
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ambisinisterrMember, Neverwinter ModeratorPosts: 10,462Community Moderator
I beg to differ if anything they should increase the difficulty on VT and MC they are both nothing but a pug group joke just bring 4 dps and a healer and they can be ran with your eyes shut. If you are having issues getting to the target and killing than I have a feeling you are tunnel visioning and the rest of your party is also. You need to have more spacial awareness.
Honestly, I want to see some videos of people running the dungeons with a rainbow party at minimum GS.
First, let me clarify, my experience is with a guild group.
We are not weak by any means. If you want to judge by gear score you are talking a minimum GS of 12K an upper GS of maybe 15K depending on the group. And while many of you may assume because I am a moderator I don't play the game as much or I am not a very good player you couldn't be more wrong. I keep saying it but I really need to try to record myself playing one of these days to debunk that assumption. -.-
So what's our issue? Well I am assuming the term rainbow means no duplicate classes and that is what we suffer through. Not because we have to. I mean we could be rather elitist and cold and say we need a healer, TR and 3 CW's and if you aren't one of those classes you can't come. We don't do that. We try to beat the game with as few to no duplicates if possible.
If you are saying content is easy due to stacks of CW's (two or more) please do everybody a favor and stop misleading the developers. If you want to make things harder then don't stack control wizards. That's what my guild does and that is what the game is supposed to be balanced for.
It has nothing to do with map awareness. Did you know you can actually time her arrivals? It alternates every thirty seconds. We don't look for her to appear, we know when she appears before she appears.
The difference comes down to team composition. There are still times the GWF can't even run and reach Valindra before a portal appears. All they have to do is run and press a single key and sometimes even that can take longer than the channeling time. What this ultimately means is that every melee fighter you bring is a burden because they can't assist preventing portals and contrary to some beliefs that is a problem.
As for the force choke, that's a bit simpler. It was awesome to assign that to the CW for ease but generally if you all huddled together there was no problem anyway. Why? No travelling time. If a member got choked a fair distance away travelling time often resulted in death.
Why? Melee fighters.
So please, before you say any dungeon is too easy ask yourself, is it too easy because you refuse to bring certain classes?
If so, you are the one making it too easy. If you can take in one of each class and complete the fight without using Slam or Maelstrom then criticism of playskill might be in order, but while I have not had the ability to run MC since the Module 2 changes my experience in MC was several dozen hours of head bashing trying to beat the dungeon without stacking classes, using Slam or Maelstrom.
Mmmhh I'm glad there will be fewer people leaving pvp matches, but I'm also worried about the frequent disconnects I have, and how wil they affect me, will I get the penalty anyway?
I disagree on the weapons and the accessory slots ayroux.
For weapons, if the PvP weapons had better stats than the PvE ones with exception of the crafted types, there would be no incentive to do PvE as a PvPer, while PvErs still have to do PvP to get some nice set bonuses.
On accessories, the previous versions were too powerful. Tenacity should have the same value as any other Stat 1:1. So 1 power = 1 tenacity. I don't see why the gear should have a lot of base stats + a lot of tenacity on top. Tenacity is a very powerful stat and noone would use PvP accessories in PvE anyway.
The way it is now, those coming from PvE have a chance (though at a slight disadvantage) to compete in PvE gear against others who wear PvP gear as opposed to being completely outclassed as per your suggestion on the accessories.
Sorry maybe I didnt make myself clear.
I didnt say give pvp weapons better stats. I merely meant make them worth while to farm. Here is my example and maybe you will still disagree.
My Formorian Fabled Greatsword is the following.
823-1006 damage
+1727 Power
+289 Crit
+133 Recovery
+133 Deflection.
(+450 Crit Set Bonus)
What the T2.5 Weapon is:
727-962
+1661 Power
+255 Crit
+120 Recovery
+120 Reflection
+167 Renacity
(No Set Bonus)
What I personally think the weapons should be is this:
805-984
+1690 Power
+284 Crit
+133 Deflection
+133 Recovery
+167 tenacity
(+400 Crit Set Bonus)
It is the same stat allocation as the "Fabled Iliyabruen Equipment" so you can see the stats are still not BIS for PVE at all. In fact there are TWO more "tiers" above this one "Dread Legion" and both the "fallen dragon and formorian" but these stats would make it a much better weapon for PVP AND worth the farming it would take to get that. Also the set bonus could easily be for +400 instead of the 450 that the others offer. But the current weapons are just so bad that the PVE gear is still BIS for PVP.
Your concern of having PVE players going into PVP and having a chance, If you really look at it, players already have a base 10% "tenacity" and adding tenacity gear only roughly doubles that to 20% ish... So its not a sever disadvantage. The fact that PVE weapons would still be better suited for PVE is fine, but this way the PVP weapons are arguably best for PVP (in maybe half the cases)
As for the actual rings and such. I am fine with having close to a 1 for 1. So maybe take the existing "tiers" and remove stats for tenacity.
Current Ancient Priests Belt:
+616 HP
+154 Armor Pen
+154 Crit
The current T2.5 Equiv:
+266 HP
+67 power
+142 Crit
+142 ARP
+90 tenacity
Why did they add power? Just keep the same stats but nerf them a tad.
What it SHOULD be:
+566 HP
+142 Crit
+142 ARP
+90 tenacity
WHY? Because these are the same stat allocations as the "Minor Grand" Gear. It just makes everything have a nice balance to it. Why re-invent the wheel here...
So Each T2.5 setup is 2 "Tiers" Below the BIS setup for PVE
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nwnghostMember, Moderators, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
727-962
+1661 Power
+255 Crit
+120 Recovery
+120 Reflection
+167 Renacity
(No Set Bonus)
To access the Ilyanbruen or Dread Legion weapons you need to have paid 50k AD and done some dailies to get a key, and then only have a chance of getting them if you beat the content multiple times.
For PvP, you can just queue and win or lose a match and eventually you get it. Also, under 60s get Glory and they could get the PvP T2 main hand right away by the time they hit 60, which if it had stats as MC/VT, it would simply be causing an imbalance and give them no reason to go to those areas (they only need to buy fragments and craft)
Current Ancient Priests Belt:
+616 HP
+154 Armor Pen
+154 Crit
The current T2.5 Equiv:
+266 HP
+67 power
+142 Crit
+142 ARP
+90 tenacity
Why did they add power? Just keep the same stats but nerf them a tad.
What it SHOULD be:
+566 HP
+142 Crit
+142 ARP
+90 tenacity
That's not 1:1. 1:1 means:
616 HP -> 616 HP
154 Arpen -> 154 Arpen
154 Crit -> 154 Tenacity
Or reducing the HP/Arpen/Crit keeping all 3 and adding Tenacity for the total stat value that was taken off. Note 4 HP = 1 other stat
Feedback: Disciple Cleric I'm glad that you are removing the tenacity from the Gauntlgrym coin gear. It makes sense to me as GG is mainly a pve event and the only way to really collect enough coins to buy the armor is by farming the dungeons. However, one small request, the PvP set bonus is _highly_ desirable for some classes, it would be nice if the GG vendor also sold 3 set types, possible mirroring the pvp stat allocations, but in PvE versions.
Also, since all GG gear is now BoP, it'd be nice to remove all the gear that is not for my class like the PvP vendors do. In terms of having T2.5 PvE gear from GG it would be nice, but being a slight newbie I'm not sure if the MC and TV armor sets are themselves technically T2.5 PvE or just T2 (in-game it calls them T2), but if they are, or when T2.5 PvE sets become available, I'd like to see GG PvE gear with the T2.5 PvP set bonuses available for sale.
I very much appreciate the new set variety, however I think the following improvements could be made:
1) Each 2pc stat bonus is to Recovery -- for the purpose of build variety/customization, it would be cool to see each set (Thaum, Rene, Champion, Oppressor) give a different 2pc bonus. I haven't seen for myself, but I believe other classes have different 2pc bonuses on their sets, even if just between the Grim and Profound levels. I realize each set does offer varied stats, but different 2pc bonuses would go a little further in offering customization.
2) Each 4pc set bonus is of the same general form -- "30-35% reduced casting time and 5-7.5% damage increase for spells in mastery." Again, it would be cool to see sets have different bonuses. Also, CWs control encounters are taking a big hit from the CC Resistance given by Tenacity, so these 4pc bonuses may be a way of lessening the nerf, perhaps in the form of a % control bonus or something to that effect. It was mentioned earlier that CWs could benefit from some sort of mechanic to aid them in pvp, along the lines of "CC effects from encounters in spell mastery cannot be resisted" -- maybe this could be made into a set bonus? It might be too much, but I certainly wouldn't mind adding a few seconds to my cooldown given that my CC will not be resisted.
3) I would like to see weapon set bonuses -- anything at all just to make the upgrade from Grim to Profound a bit more worthwhile.
4) It's awesome to see more Arp making it into the sets (Thaum), potentially allowing us to recuperate on lost burst/damage output. However, according to the tests of two different players, many CW abilities still do not benefit from Arp (bugged). Their posts in the bug report forum are: (big thanks to these guys)
If these issues with Arp are fixed, I think the damage increase may help with balancing the major damage loss CWs are seeing with Tenacity. Otherwise, Arp is currently somewhat useless for CWs as a lot of useful pvp powers are on these lists.
5) Players generally leave pvp because their team is often matched up against a premade, or otherwise much better geared/skilled team. With efficient matchmaking based on Elo, I believe this issue can be solved without the necessity of a leaver penalty. If penalties must be in place, 30 mins seems a bit steep -- I'd be more of an advocate for 15 mins or something like having leavers receive x amount of injuries so they may either wait 3x minutes or pay the ad/gold to remove them via kits.
Does the system differentiate between different "Leaving a PVP match" reasons?
* leaving (="leave group"),
* being kicked (system decides you are now long enough on the toilet, washing hands is a luxury reserved for others)
* disconnects (sometimes my ISP feels I need a 30s break from my internet)
* NW CTD (crash to desktop & report sending)
* general crashes (once in a while my GFX card overheats, I get a black screen and have to hit the "reset" button - this is certainly the solution, though I might have a different problem)
No, leaving a match for any reason is leaving. However, from what I understand, there IS tolerance that rejoining the map should not apply the leaver penalty.
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nwnghostMember, Moderators, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited February 2014
Would rejoining the map then mean for example:
A. Rejoin within 2 minutes, you are counted as dead and need to wait for respawn timer but can continue to play. If later than 2 minutes, you are kicked and penalty applies.
B. Rejoin and you are still kicked from your team but do not get the penalty
B would be rather exploitable (pulling cables comes to mind)
Also concerned about the curent handling of alt+f4/task manager closing/crash which all allow someone to return to the game 15 mins later without kick or penalty.
Lastly, the bug whereby acepting a queue prompt within the first 3 minutes (while match is still counted as open) of an existing PvP Domination match can result in you entering the match and immediately being kicked by the system that now decides that someone else should fill the spot somehow, would need to be addressed before implementation of a leaver system.
(no response needed, but would appreciate if this could be kept in mind when designing/revising the system)
Would rejoining the map then mean for example:
A. Rejoin within 2 minutes, you are counted as dead and need to wait for respawn timer but can continue to play. If later than 2 minutes, you are kicked and penalty applies.
B. Rejoin and you are still kicked from your team but do not get the penalty
B would be rather exploitable (pulling cables comes to mind)
Also concerned about the curent handling of alt+f4/task manager closing/crash which all allow someone to return to the game 15 mins later without kick or penalty.
Lastly, the bug whereby acepting a queue prompt within the first 3 minutes (while match is still counted as open) of an existing PvP Domination match can result in you entering the match and immediately being kicked by the system that now decides that someone else should fill the spot somehow, would need to be addressed before implementation of a leaver system.
(no response needed, but would appreciate if this could be kept in mind when designing/revising the system)
Yep, I was evaluating the write up our programmer gave on this feature to make the patch notes to look out for these cases. He is out of office at the moment (there's a minor office plague) or I would have responded with more details and sooner.
Please jump on and try to test out some of these edge cases if there are enough people on. This was one of the main drivers to get an updated build out this week as well as some more supporting work to get the Elo matchmaking working and making sure it is still stable.
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grogthemagnifMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,651Arc User
edited February 2014
How about a 30 Glory (Scaled to level 1 point for every 2 levels) loss for leaving?
How about a 30 Glory (Scaled to level 1 point for every 2 levels) loss for leaving?
Agreed in intent, not necessarily that penalty.
A penalty for "leaving" should be scaled to the available rewards or some kind of progressive penalty, not to being removed from the queue system entirely or some other result that hurts the game itself. I am assuming here that players being unable to play is not a good thing for the game.
There are so many edge cases, including possible system wide ones (e.g. ISP level or server level), that could result in players being unable to use the queue individually or en-masse.
To access the Ilyanbruen or Dread Legion weapons you need to have paid 50k AD and done some dailies to get a key, and then only have a chance of getting them if you beat the content multiple times.
For PvP, you can just queue and win or lose a match and eventually you get it. Also, under 60s get Glory and they could get the PvP T2 main hand right away by the time they hit 60, which if it had stats as MC/VT, it would simply be causing an imbalance and give them no reason to go to those areas (they only need to buy fragments and craft)
That's not 1:1. 1:1 means:
616 HP -> 616 HP
154 Arpen -> 154 Arpen
154 Crit -> 154 Tenacity
Or reducing the HP/Arpen/Crit keeping all 3 and adding Tenacity for the total stat value that was taken off. Note 4 HP = 1 other stat
A few issues with what you have suggested.
First, I prefer to look at it as time spent. To get the Ily weapons (which can be obtained via MC during DD) its actually pretty simple to do.
You do 1 day of dailies in sharandar and then pay to open up MC (which gives MULTIPLE benefits) so the cost cannot be allocated directly to those weapons.
I ran MC 26 times for my offhand and got the Ily sword about 4 of those times. So how many runs with a 5 man party? Lets say 7 runs @ even 1 hr a piece and lets say 30 min of dailies your at 7 hours and 30 minutes.
how much pvp do you think it would take to get those set pieces at 27k glory per piece and winning is dropped to 500 glory?
Quite a bit of time.... Also dont forget to get them you need to WIN like 12 matches on different days so its not like you can lose over and over and eventually get it...
I also got the VT weapon 2x in my first 3 runs so that was a joke to get. Ontop of that, you can farm the thayan daily dungeons and get a weapon with 777-949 damage, which ones takes more time? PvP will... I wouldnt mind it costing more "victory tokens" instead of 12 make it like 25...
For your 1:1 point, that will only hold true if 1 point in ARP gives similar benefit of 1 point of tenacity. I dont think it does and with minimal efforts tenacity kicks in pretty hard....
at the 18.5% adding say the off hand only picks up up to 19.2. So 90 points = .7% in benefit and im only at the 700-800 range on that stat.
Were as like 90 points in ARP would gain you well over 1% more...
Also it falls outside the model of having tencity of lower "tier" stats. You dont want to fully penalize someone for farming pvp gear and then not being able to PVP because of it? Same way you wouldnt wanna hurt PVEers that want to pvp...
The gear should be good for PVP and decent for PVE... Which it is... The weapons should get ATLEAST a set bonus to be viable and even then id say boost the top end damage so its better than just the T2 damage range...
I mean if I can get similar damage range from multiple sources, the "BEST" pvp weapon should atleast be the best pvp weapon. As of right now you would be a fool to use the pvp weapon....
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bioshrikeMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,729Arc User
edited February 2014
I have to be honest here - I haven't followed everything that's been going on w/ PvP, (as I am mostly a PvE-er), but unless I can be placed into matches with people that are closer to my admittedly lacking PvP skills, then this is an even greater reason for me to stay away from it. Not only will the more experienced players wipe the floor with me, but now if I want to leave the match, I won't even be able to queue for a dungeon or skirmish? Do you want even less people to play PvP?
<::::::::::::::)xxxo <::::::::::::::)xxxo <::::::::::::)xxxxxxxx(:::::::::::> oxxx(::::::::::::::> oxxx(::::::::::::::> "Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
Greetings, as it stands the leaver penalty should not be applied if you disconnect and are able to return to the match. Additionally, if your are vote kicked from the match; including cases where you are offline, the leaver penalty will not be applied. If you experience any abnormal or unexpected behavior please let us know, as always your feedback is appreciated.
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cenobite451Member, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 87
edited February 2014
YES! Thank you devs, for deciding not to murder my Gauntlgrym PvE set!
Mixed feelings about the Slam/MoC thing. I never thought it was a bug that they worked on Val to begin with - if anything I was under the impression that the bug was in other classes not having an ability that could do it. On the other hand, it'll be kinda nice to see Fulminorax as a challenge again...
Control Wizard: Maelstrom of Chaos: Fixed a bug allowing power to stun control immune targets.
Great Weapon Fighter: Slam: Fixed a bug allowing Slam to interupt bosses and control immune players.
This is an awesome change. This would suggest that it was a bug from the beginning and people have been exploiting it unless I'm mistaken? Though that is what the phrasing would suggest as it fixed "bugs". I thought it sounded strange the first time I did Malabog's Castle and refused to do it with MoC and/or slam as it sounded utterly silly to me that you could make an END-game fight so easy by doing that (and that only two classes had the ability to do it). Whether it was a glitch or not or whatever people claimed, I thought it sounded wrong so I refused to do it and would rather wipe or leave the dungeon if I couldn't do it properly. I don't know why people believe that the end-game content should be easy enough to do with an uncoordinated PuG group. It's a multiplayer game, add people you find in groups that you think are good, socialise and play with solid players or buff your gearscore to compensate for whatever you may be lacking.
Just to clarify: I take whatever's available class-wise and don't stack Control Wizards but I do like challenging content and I don't mind wiping in order to learn the fights as I find that to be the challenging aspect of the game. You make sure you gear up in the previous content before challenging the next level. This is end-game stuff and it seems like there's some sort of farm mentality in NW which makes people believe that going with an easy route to obtain the loot is better than simply leaving the dungeon if you can't do it properly. If you're not ready for the content or you're not able to do it with the group you have, leave it. If you can't get it, try to find a way to include yourself in a way that allows you to do it whether that means socialising with better players, asking for help or bashing your head against the wall until it finally cracks. There should be content for everyone in the game and there is a lot of casual stuff in NW.
Malabog's Castle is an end-game dungeon and it should be challenging and require coordination. I understand the frustration if you can't get groups but it's not about how fast you get your loot. It's about overcoming the obstacles in the game, not finding the best way to farm a dungeon through underhanded methods. It's also ironic that people call for fights that don't simply spam adds and actually require strategy and then when one appears such as MC (through legit play, assuming the phrasing of "bugs" suggest that it's an exploit/glitch), they complain about it being too difficult instead of trying to better themselves to beat it.
Handicapping other players, the content or anything in life doesn't make you any better. If you want to be better, you need to look at yourself and see how you can improve, not look at how you can handicap the challenge infront of you.
[*]Control Wizard: Maelstrom of Chaos: Fixed a bug allowing power to stun control immune targets.
[*]Great Weapon Fighter: Slam: Fixed a bug allowing Slam to interrupt bosses and control immune players.
This supposed " fix " basically makes VT + MC unfinishable.. The stun is the only way to keep valindra from killing the party one member at a time.. Especially considering that when she chokes you to DEATH, as soon as your soulforge proc's she picks you RIGHT BACK UP and chokes you to death AGAIN.
This is not a fix. This is quite simply put, a crappy way for the dev's to prolong end-game content.
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ranncoreMember, Moderators, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 2,508
edited February 2014
PvP changes are shaping up to be really great. When can we expect these to go Live?
And if you don't mind answering some curiosities can we be expecting additional maps, modes, and maybe a PvP campaign for module 3?
Greetings, as it stands the leaver penalty should not be applied if you disconnect and are able to return to the match. Additionally, if your are vote kicked from the match; including cases where you are offline, the leaver penalty will not be applied. If you experience any abnormal or unexpected behavior please let us know, as always your feedback is appreciated.
YES! Thank you devs, for deciding not to murder my Gauntlgrym PvE set!
Yeh I use mine in PVE sometimes so glad about that too.
However, the prices for the new sets are just too high for me to bother with PVP now. It was bad enough farming glory for the artifact now I would have to do that 4x over to get the top set and accessories.
I just hope this doesn't effect getting in to GG PvP so that I can do the DK dungeon. Perhaps it should no longer be a requirement to win PvP to get into that dungeon. It's hard enough getting into GG PvP as it is with the state of the queue.
This supposed " fix " basically makes VT + MC unfinishable.. The stun is the only way to keep valindra from killing the party one member at a time.. Especially considering that when she chokes you to DEATH, as soon as your soulforge proc's she picks you RIGHT BACK UP and chokes you to death AGAIN.
This is not a fix. This is quite simply put, a crappy way for the dev's to prolong end-game content.
MC, maybe. I haven't been able to get a party not asking for those. As for VT, you don't need slam/MoC...its just silly. The hand does damage so slow that the party bursts it down before the player gets down to half health. I could regen the damage done by the hand back on my TR to last easily around 15-20s while trapped and a mostly glass cannon set (enough defense to get by and just put in 1 regen ring). The only time its trouble is when the coffins and hand are used at the same time; then its troublesome.
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ambisinisterrMember, Neverwinter ModeratorPosts: 10,462Community Moderator
I have to be honest here - I haven't followed everything that's been going on w/ PvP, (as I am mostly a PvE-er), but unless I can be placed into matches with people that are closer to my admittedly lacking PvP skills
The broken record continues:
An Elo system will be added as well.
Greetings, as it stands the leaver penalty should not be applied if you disconnect and are able to return to the match. Additionally, if your are vote kicked from the match; including cases where you are offline, the leaver penalty will not be applied. If you experience any abnormal or unexpected behavior please let us know, as always your feedback is appreciated.
I'll be able to run some tests late next week.
In PvP, kicking is not vote based and can only be executed by the "party" leader on players that show as disconnected. Other than that, it is disabled.
As Offline results from 2 sources only (1. Crash/altf4/taskmgr, 2. connection drop), but case 1 would not remove the players from the match regardless of time, case 2 would still result in the player being unable to return to the match as per your explanation (they can return, but are removed by the system, even if it was only a short disconnect), and therefore inflict the penalty
Comments
ops... I did not know.
well, "The Destroyer is a torrent of unfettered rage and anger que deals a crushing amount of damage on the foe is Likely to Survive." it's official, then my observation remains valid...
edit: anyway, is the closest we have to know what to expect from each class in the online game. or creates an "official" wiki, or remains valid accept this as an official wiki.
So I just thought I would bring these items up.
1) For GWFs the T2 is actually better than the T2.5. Why? The T2 2pc set bonus is +1800 HP where the T2.5 is +460 crit... This it makes stacking 2, 2pc set bonuses for +3600 HP much better than any of the other sets.
The character I have on LIVE jsut from xfering GG gear into PVP gear can already have BIS setup with no farming, since the T2.5 gear is worthless to me...
SUGGESTION: THis comes from a place of balance. Change ALL the 2pc set bonuses to crit instead of HP. Yes its less HP, but its also more inline with other classes. On my GWF stacking 2 2pc set bonuses I am averaging 42-43k HP with VERY nice offensive stats. This would also create incentive to try and upgrade to the T2.5 sets because the set bonuses are the same....
2) For GFs the Indom Grim gear offers very attractive stats: HP/Power/Defense/Decflect - but the T2.5 for this "equiv" gear set is the Tactician setup. The T2.5 offers no Deflect so again its actually WORSE than the T2 setup. It makes NO incentive to farm the T2.5 gear.
SUGGESTION: Change the tactician so it has the same set stats as the Indom Grim set.
3) I also have noticed that NONE of the weapons have any set bonuses. I think its kinda lame that ATLEAST the T2.5 weapons dont have set bonuses... It completely destroys the advantage of farming the T2.5 weapon if you lose out on any set bonuses...
Suggestion: Give the T2.5 weapons Set Bonuses.
4) I have also noticed the T2.5 weapons have the same "TOP END" damage as the T2 weapons, again, not much incentive to upgrade to those....
SUGGESTION: Make the T2.5 weapons on par (damage range) with the Dread Legion damage (slightly lower than the Formorian or Falled Dragon damage range) This combined with the set bonuses for the weapons create ALOT of incentive to try and get those weapons.
5) The Rings/Neck/Belt seemed to have taken a MASSIVE nerf from previous offered gear. I love the multiple tier items, but the gear choices seem so sub-par they arent even worth getting on most characters...
Suggestion: Revert these to be MORE like previous versions. I really liked the idea of the ancients neck which offers +154 Power/Crit/ARP Would have a PVP counter part (T2.5) That would offer say +140 Power/Crit/ARP and +90 tenacity.
It just seems you have to give up too much good stuff to get tenacity....
OVERALL: I was very impressed with most of what I saw, I really appreciate the multiple tiers of gear sets and multiple choices for each tier. The suggestions above would make them all MUCH more attractive because based on my initial testing, on BOTH my "main characters" there is no reason to upgrade to T2.5 NOR is there any reason to get weapons NOR is there any reason to get rings/belt/neck...
I can get plenty of Tenacity without those pieces and just the T2 gear (19.2%) It was just a big disappointment to learn there were not going to be any upgrades that I was looking forward to farming on my characters....
For weapons, if the PvP weapons had better stats than the PvE ones with exception of the crafted types, there would be no incentive to do PvE as a PvPer, while PvErs still have to do PvP to get some nice set bonuses.
On accessories, the previous versions were too powerful. Tenacity should have the same value as any other Stat 1:1. So 1 power = 1 tenacity. I don't see why the gear should have a lot of base stats + a lot of tenacity on top. Tenacity is a very powerful stat and noone would use PvP accessories in PvE anyway.
The way it is now, those coming from PvE have a chance (though at a slight disadvantage) to compete in PvE gear against others who wear PvP gear as opposed to being completely outclassed as per your suggestion on the accessories.
First, let me clarify, my experience is with a guild group.
We are not weak by any means. If you want to judge by gear score you are talking a minimum GS of 12K an upper GS of maybe 15K depending on the group. And while many of you may assume because I am a moderator I don't play the game as much or I am not a very good player you couldn't be more wrong. I keep saying it but I really need to try to record myself playing one of these days to debunk that assumption. -.-
So what's our issue? Well I am assuming the term rainbow means no duplicate classes and that is what we suffer through. Not because we have to. I mean we could be rather elitist and cold and say we need a healer, TR and 3 CW's and if you aren't one of those classes you can't come. We don't do that. We try to beat the game with as few to no duplicates if possible.
If you are saying content is easy due to stacks of CW's (two or more) please do everybody a favor and stop misleading the developers. If you want to make things harder then don't stack control wizards. That's what my guild does and that is what the game is supposed to be balanced for.
It has nothing to do with map awareness. Did you know you can actually time her arrivals? It alternates every thirty seconds. We don't look for her to appear, we know when she appears before she appears.
The difference comes down to team composition. There are still times the GWF can't even run and reach Valindra before a portal appears. All they have to do is run and press a single key and sometimes even that can take longer than the channeling time. What this ultimately means is that every melee fighter you bring is a burden because they can't assist preventing portals and contrary to some beliefs that is a problem.
As for the force choke, that's a bit simpler. It was awesome to assign that to the CW for ease but generally if you all huddled together there was no problem anyway. Why? No travelling time. If a member got choked a fair distance away travelling time often resulted in death.
Why? Melee fighters.
So please, before you say any dungeon is too easy ask yourself, is it too easy because you refuse to bring certain classes?
If so, you are the one making it too easy. If you can take in one of each class and complete the fight without using Slam or Maelstrom then criticism of playskill might be in order, but while I have not had the ability to run MC since the Module 2 changes my experience in MC was several dozen hours of head bashing trying to beat the dungeon without stacking classes, using Slam or Maelstrom.
Sorry maybe I didnt make myself clear.
I didnt say give pvp weapons better stats. I merely meant make them worth while to farm. Here is my example and maybe you will still disagree.
My Formorian Fabled Greatsword is the following.
823-1006 damage
+1727 Power
+289 Crit
+133 Recovery
+133 Deflection.
(+450 Crit Set Bonus)
What the T2.5 Weapon is:
727-962
+1661 Power
+255 Crit
+120 Recovery
+120 Reflection
+167 Renacity
(No Set Bonus)
What I personally think the weapons should be is this:
805-984
+1690 Power
+284 Crit
+133 Deflection
+133 Recovery
+167 tenacity
(+400 Crit Set Bonus)
It is the same stat allocation as the "Fabled Iliyabruen Equipment" so you can see the stats are still not BIS for PVE at all. In fact there are TWO more "tiers" above this one "Dread Legion" and both the "fallen dragon and formorian" but these stats would make it a much better weapon for PVP AND worth the farming it would take to get that. Also the set bonus could easily be for +400 instead of the 450 that the others offer. But the current weapons are just so bad that the PVE gear is still BIS for PVP.
Your concern of having PVE players going into PVP and having a chance, If you really look at it, players already have a base 10% "tenacity" and adding tenacity gear only roughly doubles that to 20% ish... So its not a sever disadvantage. The fact that PVE weapons would still be better suited for PVE is fine, but this way the PVP weapons are arguably best for PVP (in maybe half the cases)
As for the actual rings and such. I am fine with having close to a 1 for 1. So maybe take the existing "tiers" and remove stats for tenacity.
Current Ancient Priests Belt:
+616 HP
+154 Armor Pen
+154 Crit
The current T2.5 Equiv:
+266 HP
+67 power
+142 Crit
+142 ARP
+90 tenacity
Why did they add power? Just keep the same stats but nerf them a tad.
What it SHOULD be:
+566 HP
+142 Crit
+142 ARP
+90 tenacity
WHY? Because these are the same stat allocations as the "Minor Grand" Gear. It just makes everything have a nice balance to it. Why re-invent the wheel here...
So Each T2.5 setup is 2 "Tiers" Below the BIS setup for PVE
To access the Ilyanbruen or Dread Legion weapons you need to have paid 50k AD and done some dailies to get a key, and then only have a chance of getting them if you beat the content multiple times.
For PvP, you can just queue and win or lose a match and eventually you get it. Also, under 60s get Glory and they could get the PvP T2 main hand right away by the time they hit 60, which if it had stats as MC/VT, it would simply be causing an imbalance and give them no reason to go to those areas (they only need to buy fragments and craft)
That's not 1:1. 1:1 means:
616 HP -> 616 HP
154 Arpen -> 154 Arpen
154 Crit -> 154 Tenacity
Or reducing the HP/Arpen/Crit keeping all 3 and adding Tenacity for the total stat value that was taken off. Note 4 HP = 1 other stat
I'm glad that you are removing the tenacity from the Gauntlgrym coin gear. It makes sense to me as GG is mainly a pve event and the only way to really collect enough coins to buy the armor is by farming the dungeons. However, one small request, the PvP set bonus is _highly_ desirable for some classes, it would be nice if the GG vendor also sold 3 set types, possible mirroring the pvp stat allocations, but in PvE versions.
Also, since all GG gear is now BoP, it'd be nice to remove all the gear that is not for my class like the PvP vendors do. In terms of having T2.5 PvE gear from GG it would be nice, but being a slight newbie I'm not sure if the MC and TV armor sets are themselves technically T2.5 PvE or just T2 (in-game it calls them T2), but if they are, or when T2.5 PvE sets become available, I'd like to see GG PvE gear with the T2.5 PvP set bonuses available for sale.
I very much appreciate the new set variety, however I think the following improvements could be made:
1) Each 2pc stat bonus is to Recovery -- for the purpose of build variety/customization, it would be cool to see each set (Thaum, Rene, Champion, Oppressor) give a different 2pc bonus. I haven't seen for myself, but I believe other classes have different 2pc bonuses on their sets, even if just between the Grim and Profound levels. I realize each set does offer varied stats, but different 2pc bonuses would go a little further in offering customization.
2) Each 4pc set bonus is of the same general form -- "30-35% reduced casting time and 5-7.5% damage increase for spells in mastery." Again, it would be cool to see sets have different bonuses. Also, CWs control encounters are taking a big hit from the CC Resistance given by Tenacity, so these 4pc bonuses may be a way of lessening the nerf, perhaps in the form of a % control bonus or something to that effect. It was mentioned earlier that CWs could benefit from some sort of mechanic to aid them in pvp, along the lines of "CC effects from encounters in spell mastery cannot be resisted" -- maybe this could be made into a set bonus? It might be too much, but I certainly wouldn't mind adding a few seconds to my cooldown given that my CC will not be resisted.
3) I would like to see weapon set bonuses -- anything at all just to make the upgrade from Grim to Profound a bit more worthwhile.
4) It's awesome to see more Arp making it into the sets (Thaum), potentially allowing us to recuperate on lost burst/damage output. However, according to the tests of two different players, many CW abilities still do not benefit from Arp (bugged). Their posts in the bug report forum are: (big thanks to these guys)
Stoxforum1's Arp Test
Fondlez's Arp Test
If these issues with Arp are fixed, I think the damage increase may help with balancing the major damage loss CWs are seeing with Tenacity. Otherwise, Arp is currently somewhat useless for CWs as a lot of useful pvp powers are on these lists.
5) Players generally leave pvp because their team is often matched up against a premade, or otherwise much better geared/skilled team. With efficient matchmaking based on Elo, I believe this issue can be solved without the necessity of a leaver penalty. If penalties must be in place, 30 mins seems a bit steep -- I'd be more of an advocate for 15 mins or something like having leavers receive x amount of injuries so they may either wait 3x minutes or pay the ad/gold to remove them via kits.
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#BringBackShard | M5 CW Bug List | My M3 PvP Gameplay
No, leaving a match for any reason is leaving. However, from what I understand, there IS tolerance that rejoining the map should not apply the leaver penalty.
A. Rejoin within 2 minutes, you are counted as dead and need to wait for respawn timer but can continue to play. If later than 2 minutes, you are kicked and penalty applies.
B. Rejoin and you are still kicked from your team but do not get the penalty
B would be rather exploitable (pulling cables comes to mind)
Also concerned about the curent handling of alt+f4/task manager closing/crash which all allow someone to return to the game 15 mins later without kick or penalty.
Lastly, the bug whereby acepting a queue prompt within the first 3 minutes (while match is still counted as open) of an existing PvP Domination match can result in you entering the match and immediately being kicked by the system that now decides that someone else should fill the spot somehow, would need to be addressed before implementation of a leaver system.
(no response needed, but would appreciate if this could be kept in mind when designing/revising the system)
Yep, I was evaluating the write up our programmer gave on this feature to make the patch notes to look out for these cases. He is out of office at the moment (there's a minor office plague) or I would have responded with more details and sooner.
Please jump on and try to test out some of these edge cases if there are enough people on. This was one of the main drivers to get an updated build out this week as well as some more supporting work to get the Elo matchmaking working and making sure it is still stable.
Agreed in intent, not necessarily that penalty.
A penalty for "leaving" should be scaled to the available rewards or some kind of progressive penalty, not to being removed from the queue system entirely or some other result that hurts the game itself. I am assuming here that players being unable to play is not a good thing for the game.
There are so many edge cases, including possible system wide ones (e.g. ISP level or server level), that could result in players being unable to use the queue individually or en-masse.
A few issues with what you have suggested.
First, I prefer to look at it as time spent. To get the Ily weapons (which can be obtained via MC during DD) its actually pretty simple to do.
You do 1 day of dailies in sharandar and then pay to open up MC (which gives MULTIPLE benefits) so the cost cannot be allocated directly to those weapons.
I ran MC 26 times for my offhand and got the Ily sword about 4 of those times. So how many runs with a 5 man party? Lets say 7 runs @ even 1 hr a piece and lets say 30 min of dailies your at 7 hours and 30 minutes.
how much pvp do you think it would take to get those set pieces at 27k glory per piece and winning is dropped to 500 glory?
Quite a bit of time.... Also dont forget to get them you need to WIN like 12 matches on different days so its not like you can lose over and over and eventually get it...
I also got the VT weapon 2x in my first 3 runs so that was a joke to get. Ontop of that, you can farm the thayan daily dungeons and get a weapon with 777-949 damage, which ones takes more time? PvP will... I wouldnt mind it costing more "victory tokens" instead of 12 make it like 25...
For your 1:1 point, that will only hold true if 1 point in ARP gives similar benefit of 1 point of tenacity. I dont think it does and with minimal efforts tenacity kicks in pretty hard....
at the 18.5% adding say the off hand only picks up up to 19.2. So 90 points = .7% in benefit and im only at the 700-800 range on that stat.
Were as like 90 points in ARP would gain you well over 1% more...
Also it falls outside the model of having tencity of lower "tier" stats. You dont want to fully penalize someone for farming pvp gear and then not being able to PVP because of it? Same way you wouldnt wanna hurt PVEers that want to pvp...
The gear should be good for PVP and decent for PVE... Which it is... The weapons should get ATLEAST a set bonus to be viable and even then id say boost the top end damage so its better than just the T2 damage range...
I mean if I can get similar damage range from multiple sources, the "BEST" pvp weapon should atleast be the best pvp weapon. As of right now you would be a fool to use the pvp weapon....
"Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark
Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
Mixed feelings about the Slam/MoC thing. I never thought it was a bug that they worked on Val to begin with - if anything I was under the impression that the bug was in other classes not having an ability that could do it. On the other hand, it'll be kinda nice to see Fulminorax as a challenge again...
This is an awesome change. This would suggest that it was a bug from the beginning and people have been exploiting it unless I'm mistaken? Though that is what the phrasing would suggest as it fixed "bugs". I thought it sounded strange the first time I did Malabog's Castle and refused to do it with MoC and/or slam as it sounded utterly silly to me that you could make an END-game fight so easy by doing that (and that only two classes had the ability to do it). Whether it was a glitch or not or whatever people claimed, I thought it sounded wrong so I refused to do it and would rather wipe or leave the dungeon if I couldn't do it properly. I don't know why people believe that the end-game content should be easy enough to do with an uncoordinated PuG group. It's a multiplayer game, add people you find in groups that you think are good, socialise and play with solid players or buff your gearscore to compensate for whatever you may be lacking.
Just to clarify: I take whatever's available class-wise and don't stack Control Wizards but I do like challenging content and I don't mind wiping in order to learn the fights as I find that to be the challenging aspect of the game. You make sure you gear up in the previous content before challenging the next level. This is end-game stuff and it seems like there's some sort of farm mentality in NW which makes people believe that going with an easy route to obtain the loot is better than simply leaving the dungeon if you can't do it properly. If you're not ready for the content or you're not able to do it with the group you have, leave it. If you can't get it, try to find a way to include yourself in a way that allows you to do it whether that means socialising with better players, asking for help or bashing your head against the wall until it finally cracks. There should be content for everyone in the game and there is a lot of casual stuff in NW.
Malabog's Castle is an end-game dungeon and it should be challenging and require coordination. I understand the frustration if you can't get groups but it's not about how fast you get your loot. It's about overcoming the obstacles in the game, not finding the best way to farm a dungeon through underhanded methods. It's also ironic that people call for fights that don't simply spam adds and actually require strategy and then when one appears such as MC (through legit play, assuming the phrasing of "bugs" suggest that it's an exploit/glitch), they complain about it being too difficult instead of trying to better themselves to beat it.
Handicapping other players, the content or anything in life doesn't make you any better. If you want to be better, you need to look at yourself and see how you can improve, not look at how you can handicap the challenge infront of you.
This supposed " fix " basically makes VT + MC unfinishable.. The stun is the only way to keep valindra from killing the party one member at a time.. Especially considering that when she chokes you to DEATH, as soon as your soulforge proc's she picks you RIGHT BACK UP and chokes you to death AGAIN.
This is not a fix. This is quite simply put, a crappy way for the dev's to prolong end-game content.
And if you don't mind answering some curiosities can we be expecting additional maps, modes, and maybe a PvP campaign for module 3?
thanks for that response!
Yeh I use mine in PVE sometimes so glad about that too.
However, the prices for the new sets are just too high for me to bother with PVP now. It was bad enough farming glory for the artifact now I would have to do that 4x over to get the top set and accessories.
I just hope this doesn't effect getting in to GG PvP so that I can do the DK dungeon. Perhaps it should no longer be a requirement to win PvP to get into that dungeon. It's hard enough getting into GG PvP as it is with the state of the queue.
The broken record continues:
An Elo system will be added as well.
Teahup00, HR PVE
I'll be able to run some tests late next week.
In PvP, kicking is not vote based and can only be executed by the "party" leader on players that show as disconnected. Other than that, it is disabled.
As Offline results from 2 sources only (1. Crash/altf4/taskmgr, 2. connection drop), but case 1 would not remove the players from the match regardless of time, case 2 would still result in the player being unable to return to the match as per your explanation (they can return, but are removed by the system, even if it was only a short disconnect), and therefore inflict the penalty