why do I hate hunter rangers in PVP?

dodgo · February 2014

Because they refuse to stand on the **** cap :P

charononus · February 2014

To be fair a lot of CW's in pugs do the same thing. I think part of the problem is that new players don't understand how domination works. Someone should write up a good guide to it with "basic" strategies and either try to get it stickied here or put on the wiki.

trapublican · February 2014

verdonix1 wrote: »

I hate hunters because all they do is spam 1 attack... that is all

Yerp. Spam some bugged roots on you then ME away, archer rangers are such garbage.

darkfurius · February 2014

The fact is there a lot of newplayers with ranger class, and they just don't know how to play. I'm HR but I've seen a lot of ppl that just don't know how the class works.

jaotut · February 2014

I think most of them are too scared to die, but don't blame those archery HR and CWs that are squishy. The moment they step onto middle base they get focused and die.

charononus · February 2014

jaotut wrote: »

I think most of them are too scared to die, but don't blame those archery HR and CWs that are squishy. The moment they step onto middle base they get focused and die.

The problem is that for those few seconds they're actually making a contribution by contesting the node. Fighting off base, well that only helps the enemy team. Oppossing team cw's and hr's that do this are my best friends in pvp as they make it easier to win.

jazzfong · February 2014

I dont think this is a big problem for me, even the team lose because of them, dont make yourselves frustrate. Oh you contribute nothing? Then you wont get my heals and support, even u did kill a lot, the one that should heal you is tanking and defending mid for you, still no heals for you.
XD

dodgo · February 2014

and why do people always run up the stairs like wimps when they see us real men face tanking the cap?

perfecto227 · February 2014

I've actually been doing great as HR in pvp and coming in top kills in pvp. I've been seeing a alot of fail HRs but it's a new class and they haven't quite figured it out yet. I'm a melee hybrid and give rogues, gfs and gwfs a hard fight on which i come out victorious. The only ones I have problems with are cw and dc but that's about to change because i re-rolled and went 30% cc resist. Eat that *****es!!

perfecto227 · February 2014

just realized this is an old ssa thread

perfecto227 · February 2014

lvl 24 btw killing ish in domination29

trapublican · February 2014

jazzfong wrote: »

I dont think this is a big problem for me, even the team lose because of them, dont make yourselves frustrate. Oh you contribute nothing? Then you wont get my heals and support, even u did kill a lot, the one that should heal you is tanking and defending mid for you, still no heals for you.
XD

QFT

I always get HRs and CWs crying about me not healing them. For one they tend to have pitiful defenses (since they stupidly ignored survivability as if focusing everything into attacking stats is a great idea)) so I'm not wasting my heals on them since they've built a character that's going to die quickly unless I pretty much play healbot to them and only them, then they're standing so **** far away they're in another time zone so I'm just going to concentrate on keeping myself and those who are actually making useful contributions to the team alive.

perfecto227 · February 2014

AND...came in top damage during call to arms event at lvl 6...that was just sad and hilarious at the same damned time.

perfecto227 · February 2014

trapublican wrote: »

QFT

I always get HRs and CWs crying about me not healing them. For one they tend to have pitiful defenses (since they stupidly ignored survivability as if focusing everything into attacking stats is a great idea)) so I'm not wasting my heals on them since they've built a character that's going to die quickly unless I pretty much play healbot to them and only them, then they're standing so **** far away they're in another time zone so I'm just going to concentrate on keeping myself and those who are actually making useful contributions to the team alive.

I love healing in pvp but unless you have a competent group or guild with teamspeak or other...they're gonna always focus on the healer and only good players know to protect the heals...unfortunately they all want to top the dmg scale

perfecto227 · February 2014

As a healer you don't get to pick and choose who you want to heal...unless they're a *****...you're main goal is support. If you feel like someone's being an ssahole during the match then wait until after the match is over and ignore them

perfecto227 · February 2014

That is unless you're going dps DC...that's a different program

kweassa · February 2014

To be fair, there's a time when you need to be on the node, and there's also a time where you need to come off it, and be more aggressive in chasing down/engaging enemies. It's simply about experience. Newbies, of course, have no idea what this means, and many average-grade people also have problems in judging what they have to do.

Most experienced players not only have this concept of when to press on and when to hold, they actually keep tabs on the maps, track friendly players' positions, look at the party screen to see who is in combat and who not, actually count the number of enemies, and more or less deduce/anticipate the enemy's next move.

Being on the node is only half of the story in PvP. Many times, you need to be more aggressive. In the end, being passive just loses games. The best defense is a good offense.

charononus · February 2014

kweassa wrote: »

To be fair, there's a time when you need to be on the node, and there's also a time where you need to come off it, and be more aggressive in chasing down/engaging enemies. It's simply about experience. Newbies, of course, have no idea what this means, and many average-grade people also have problems in judging what they have to do.

Most experienced players not only have this concept of when to press on and when to hold, they actually keep tabs on the maps, track friendly players' positions, look at the party screen to see who is in combat and who not, actually count the number of enemies, and more or less deduce/anticipate the enemy's next move.

Being on the node is only half of the story in PvP. Many times, you need to be more aggressive. In the end, being passive just loses games. The best defense is a good offense.

It's a lot simplier than all of that. If the point isn't solid blue, get on the point. Chasing the enemy will not win you the point, which won't win you the game. Now if you have a strategy where you are the one always contesting the enemy home base, sure run past 2, but we're talking about people that when trying to take a node won't step onto the node.

overddrive · February 2014

kweassa wrote: »

To be fair, there's a time when you need to be on the node, and there's also a time where you need to come off it, and be more aggressive in chasing down/engaging enemies. It's simply about experience. Newbies, of course, have no idea what this means, and many average-grade people also have problems in judging what they have to do.

Most experienced players not only have this concept of when to press on and when to hold, they actually keep tabs on the maps, track friendly players' positions, look at the party screen to see who is in combat and who not, actually count the number of enemies, and more or less deduce/anticipate the enemy's next move.

Being on the node is only half of the story in PvP. Many times, you need to be more aggressive. In the end, being passive just loses games. The best defense is a good offense.

I think it is also worth mentioning that premades and pugs are two entirely separate universes. A pug you pretty much have to stay on the node because god only knows what your team mates are doing. Premades....I've been in a gwf/gwf/dc/dc/tr premade lately as one of the gwfs and no one even goes to home node to start. All towards mid, me and the other gwf rush right past it and kill anything standing off node near the enemy spawn (usually cw's and hr's thinking they are gonna poach some easy kills off 2), then right on up to enemy home node. Rest assured by the time that is taken home and mid are blue and either the other team gave up or they run around like their hair is on fire. Meeting the entire other team on mid node to start makes things a lot more interesting. Point being, even ranged dps should be on 2 to start, if they have to flyt on and off of it to stay alive that is fine, let the tanks tank and stay out of harms way while adding dps and control. Once score is double the enemy team go ahead and have fun sniping.

johnnywad309 · February 2014

A lot of you are complaining just to complain about something. I hate <insert random class here> players who send 4 people to our own node right at the start, basically conceding the middle point without a fight. Those are usually the players who quit before 2 minutes have passed. I also hate idiots who zerg the first red guy they see, regardless of what's going on around them. The most annoying <insert random class here> players of all? The ones that manage to win the fight at mid then zerg off after the lone surviving red guy on the enemy team. They chase said survivor/hero/loser/whatever right up the stairs and all over God only knows where. Meanwhile, the entire enemy team that just respawned is dropping down the wall right next to them like roaches and heading to mid to cap the point with no contention.

izidius · February 2014

trapublican wrote: »

Yerp. Spam some bugged roots on you then ME away, archer rangers are such garbage.

Lol yeah, more annoying than anything

kweassa · February 2014

charononus wrote: »

It's a lot simplier than all of that. If the point isn't solid blue, get on the point. Chasing the enemy will not win you the point, which won't win you the game. Now if you have a strategy where you are the one always contesting the enemy home base, sure run past 2, but we're talking about people that when trying to take a node won't step onto the node.

That'd be a bit over-simplification. PvP is dynamic, and the situations are always different, ranging from which classes of enemies first arrive on the scene, to how many of them (as well as our own) are going for the back node. This tends to make things much more complicated and would require a bit more fluid thinking than just the 'basics'.

For instance, for some reason the most of the enemy players first go to the back node. Only one or two of them arrive at the scene at the mid node. 4 of your team members arrive at mid. Question: Do you stay and fight at mid?

The answer would differ according to how strong your initial mid-members are. If there's a good chance that your team-mates can basically take them on 1-on-1, then in my case I'd just leave two people to contest the mid node against their two members, and then bring the other guy to ride past and form a distraction smack between their back node and mid-node. In time out back-node guy will arrive at mid after capping, and form a 3v2 at mid, while me and the other guy would keep the 3 of the enemies who went to their back node distracted.

However, if I don't have confidence in our own mid-members, then I'd just stay and first finish off the mid-fight quickly with a 4vs2 situation.

Likewise, after you have taken the mid node, do you stay to defend? Empirically, forming a battlefront in FRONT of the node, rather than on it, is actually a better means if you want to defend it. However, again, if the team seems to weak and passive to manage that, then the battleline would form behind the node, and our mid-members would shift their tactics to prolonged survival, rather than actually defending the mid... which at that point the TR players would move behind and rush their back node.

The conditions are so dynamic, that there isn't really a "correct answer". Getting the node is just the simplest, lowest level of basics. People need to make judgements as they go along, and each time it may require different numbers of people in different places.

(ps) On a side note, the reason GWFs are overpowered would be exactly from this tactical viewpoint. They're way difficult enemies to take down on an individual scale, but much more than that, is the fact that on a tactical scale, the side that has more, or better GWFs have a very wide range of tactical choices to make, from brute-force charging nodes to clever distribution of players...

...whereas the team without a GWF, has fewer GWFs, or with a vastly inferior ones, is simply pressed into an ever-retreating defense where people are pushed back just for the need to survive against those damned freaks. In a game where you need to take a point and hold ground to win, the GWFs just have it too easy.

malevolent215 · February 2014

As a Hybrid HR that leans towards melee in PvP I find a lot of these posts hypocritical...

My focus is always nodes, sadly I am usually the only one defending two when the rest of my team is off trying to force the enemy home node. HRs are even squishier then CWs without our buffs, and those buffs take away DPS when slotted. We are not great defenders...

Now here is my HR defense. People cry about us not killing the enemy ranged players in the back. Well maybe that would be easier if our GWF and GF teammates would counter the enemy GWF and GF instead of trying to rush those CWs and HRs for easy kills. We are squishy and range/roots are our only advantage. Reminder we only have one knockdown or stun outside of ranged attacks (boar Charge), and that's sometimes unreliable in terms of accuracy. It's really unfair to judge us for fighting back off the node as the second we move up we get focused by GWFs and CWs because they think we are an easy kill. As I stated before... how about our teammates help counter that focus.

Now as I stated, I am more melee... I can burst any other squishy down just as fast as any TR or GWF, and I will usually use ME's melee to gap close past the GWFs and GFs to distract the enemy ranged. That doesn't work if we are alone.... and people tend to leave me to zerg one guy running away constantly. So again, how about some team support?

Like I said, hypocritical... You want us to fight a certain way or in a certain position... yet I never see teammates take advantage of my rooted, knocked-down, or constricted enemy. Instead they are trying to get an easy kill off that TR that my Fox's Cunning just completely demoralized with their backslash....

Bottom line is... you want better HRs? Be better teammates and know what our class is capable of...

stalesmoke · February 2014

the more people that learn to play HR in pvp (properly), the moAr the qq's will come.

jenisyde · February 2014

To help aggro problems and mobs scattering to ranger, I like to make sure my group implements a little extra CC over DPS. Also if clerics stands in front of HR / CW ranged DPS, there is a technique I use.

1. When you see mobs aggro them and run toward you, Tab Divinity, Sunburst Knockback toward the rest of the group of mobs
2. Immediately use chains of lightning under where they will land (hopefully with the rest of the mobs)
3. Watch mobs stay controlled and DPS continue from not having HR / CW run around.
4. Rinse and repeat.

This tactic works VERY well. In fact these days I don't usually take chains off my encounters unless I need to use healing word for ranged reasons.

sepuz · February 2014

Jenisyde, you do realise this was a topic about HRs in PvP rite?

jenisyde · February 2014

Derp, sorry. I got caught up in the debate and not the original OP topic. My bad.

jenisyde · February 2014

Actually double derp. I realized there were two threads. One PVP and one PVE. I posted on the wrong one. Thanks for pointing it out Sepuz!!

sepuz · February 2014

Hah yea, i was just gonna point that out too

Noticed it too.

On the topic though, HR Constricting Arrow is becoming control, which will enable people to break its effects. It will still remain a useful ability against some classes but atm it is broken and most likely is the main reason people hate HRs in PvP.

As a GWF i can understand the frustration of HRs chain rooting without the ability to counter that.

malevolent215 · February 2014

sepuz wrote: »

Hah yea, i was just gonna point that out too Noticed it too.

On the topic though, HR Constricting Arrow is becoming control, which will enable people to break its effects. It will still remain a useful ability against some classes but atm it is broken and most likely is the main reason people hate HRs in PvP.

As a GWF i can understand the frustration of HRs chain rooting without the ability to counter that.

Yea, and in my opinion the changes are a little lopsided... So I am not a fan. If you are going to make our roots 1/2 as useful in PvP, then return the favor. We still have to stand still for a good 2 seconds in order for Forest Ghost to work properly, and we still get cc'd or knocked down mid ME from 20 feet away. If our roots are that unfair, then how about you let our Disruptive Shot interrupt things besides only casted attacks. Let me break stealth with it, or interrupt Unstoppable.

Once these changes make it to live servers HRs will be a joke against GWFs and GFs. Our dodge is too short of a distance, and ME/Ghost take too long. From now on when we get focused by a GWF outside of Ghost, we might as well just bend over and take it...

But you know.... people cry, changes are made... another class gets a nerf. I have played a CW, HR, and GWF... for how ridiculous the steamroller GWF build is, they sure do cry a lot. I forgot how they are suppose to be literally "unstoppable" 1on1.

trapublican · February 2014

malevolent215 wrote: »

As a Hybrid HR that leans towards melee in PvP I find a lot of these posts hypocritical...

My focus is always nodes, sadly I am usually the only one defending two when the rest of my team is off trying to force the enemy home node. HRs are even squishier then CWs without our buffs, and those buffs take away DPS when slotted. We are not great defenders...

Now here is my HR defense. People cry about us not killing the enemy ranged players in the back. Well maybe that would be easier if our GWF and GF teammates would counter the enemy GWF and GF instead of trying to rush those CWs and HRs for easy kills. We are squishy and range/roots are our only advantage. Reminder we only have one knockdown or stun outside of ranged attacks (boar Charge), and that's sometimes unreliable in terms of accuracy. It's really unfair to judge us for fighting back off the node as the second we move up we get focused by GWFs and CWs because they think we are an easy kill. As I stated before... how about our teammates help counter that focus.

Now as I stated, I am more melee... I can burst any other squishy down just as fast as any TR or GWF, and I will usually use ME's melee to gap close past the GWFs and GFs to distract the enemy ranged. That doesn't work if we are alone.... and people tend to leave me to zerg one guy running away constantly. So again, how about some team support?

Like I said, hypocritical... You want us to fight a certain way or in a certain position... yet I never see teammates take advantage of my rooted, knocked-down, or constricted enemy. Instead they are trying to get an easy kill off that TR that my Fox's Cunning just completely demoralized with their backslash....

Bottom line is... you want better HRs? Be better teammates and know what our class is capable of...

Sounds like you just built a bad ranger and want to claim others don't understand the class when you yourself have shown you don't with this gem "HRs are even squishier then CWs without our buffs, and those buffs take away DPS when slotted." How does having Fox's and Boar's (aka your two hardest hitting melee encounters) lower your dps by having them slotted? Have you not noticed that ranged encounter powers do pitiful damage compared to the at-wills? Sounds like you're a recent convert form the typical Legolas/Drizzt rootspamming MEing build. It takes at least 3 or 4 people to kill my ranger (and I have terrible gear) and that's only if I get chain CCed otherwise I just make a getaway.

why do I hate hunter rangers in PVP?

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