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Killing my Control Wizard - warning for new players
pangeus666
Member Posts: 8 Arc User
Warning: if you kill my Control Wizard the world will end 6 days later. 
Obviously the world would have ended many times by now if that were true. The real warning in this message to new players is: choose any other class than CW cause it's so underpowered and super-squishy that it spoils the endgame.
Up until lvl 60 it was a lot of fun, used to be near the top in pvp (except for some TRs) and pve (except for some HRs). I got 60 about a week ago, full epics now (pieces from multiple sets) and there's no fun in pvping anymore. Hard enough to win a 1vs1 with a CW, but against a group it's totally worthless. Sure, you can do some control, but only to delay the inevitable dead of your CW.
So before deleting my CW I figured I read some guides (even though renegade is hard to mess up I respecced just to see if that was it) and talk to other CW players in game. "Get a Stone" was the most common advice, referring to companion that augments the player's stats - BUT that only works in PvE, AND, the stone would be better spent on a better class (any other than CW that is).
Fact of the matter is, that without that 1200 ZEN stone and a vorpal enchantment it's hard to get invites for a group for T2 epic runs. As can be seen by watching the chat in Protector's Enclave, especially during dungeons delves. Always CWs looking for group who then mention their gear score, like other classes do to sometimes, but also specifically mention they got a Stone and a vorpal. What they are basically saying is: "I know CW isn't really fit to go with you in a dungeon run but I got a 1200 ZEN companion and vorpal stone to make up for that bad choice of class - can I come pretty please?".
Of course it's hard to admit for people who paid for something to admit they got ripped off (like paying $50 for a boring party and saying you had a blast and going to a free party and saying that it was boring... classic) but I sure wish someone had warned me about it like I'm doing now. I played a similar class in a different game and was amongst the top 3 best on the server, similar spells, similar game play. While most aspects are much better in Neverwinter as I counted on when starting the CW, the end result is still the same.
I leveled a GWF from 10-20 with PvP only (with level 10-ish gear and mulhorand set of course), lost only 3 pvp matches, all 3 with the same TR in the enemy team, guess what class he played before the TR... If you're in pvp at lower levels and you're noticing a TR or GWF killing everyone, there's a good chance it's a player who got annoyed playing CW and started another character. Ask and you'll see how common it is. And guess who they target the most...
Several issues that cause the imbalance:
- When a CW teleports it takes on a silly statue-like stance making it walk slowly, shuffle dance, for a second or two. Running is just as fast as teleporting. Effectively, a CW gets a speed DEbuff/penalty after teleporting (which it desperately needs to do to stay alive).
- The shield buff is 'ok', but effectively not worth an encounter slot (of which especially the CW has too little off). The shield should have been a passive (i.e. choose more def over dmg).
- Other classes get awesome skills in the Tab slot and CWs only get to bump a single Power to a Mastery level. That so obviously in no way even compares to for example GWF's Unstoppable power or TRs stealth. It's not even an extra for CW, it's more like 'unnerfing' a power. Repel for example, should always hit multiple targets. Instead it hits 1 target by default and with Mastery slot can be bumped to hitting multiple targets. Same with some other powers, putting it in Mastery slot makes them do what they should be doing by default.
The last one is one of the main causes for the imbalance. Instead of only one mastery skill, the Tab should for example allow for 30 sec buff during which ALL skills are at Mastery level, build up similar to Determination for GWFs.
Or better, ditch the whole failed mastery idea and build up something that allows for unblockable control spells. TRs should not be able to be immune to CW control when they are not in stealth (duh!). TRs should not be able to attack AND remain stealth (really, that makes no sense. One logically gives up stealth once starting to attack). GFs should not be able to block ANY control skills (putting up a Shield to block mind power control... right...) or at least reduce their block value (not saying GFs are challenging for CWs...).
Only positive thing is that I haven't bought a real mount yet for this character. It's a shame I can't transfer my companions to my GWF though.
Ok I'm done, and yes, I feel better now
Obviously the world would have ended many times by now if that were true. The real warning in this message to new players is: choose any other class than CW cause it's so underpowered and super-squishy that it spoils the endgame.
Up until lvl 60 it was a lot of fun, used to be near the top in pvp (except for some TRs) and pve (except for some HRs). I got 60 about a week ago, full epics now (pieces from multiple sets) and there's no fun in pvping anymore. Hard enough to win a 1vs1 with a CW, but against a group it's totally worthless. Sure, you can do some control, but only to delay the inevitable dead of your CW.
So before deleting my CW I figured I read some guides (even though renegade is hard to mess up I respecced just to see if that was it) and talk to other CW players in game. "Get a Stone" was the most common advice, referring to companion that augments the player's stats - BUT that only works in PvE, AND, the stone would be better spent on a better class (any other than CW that is).
Fact of the matter is, that without that 1200 ZEN stone and a vorpal enchantment it's hard to get invites for a group for T2 epic runs. As can be seen by watching the chat in Protector's Enclave, especially during dungeons delves. Always CWs looking for group who then mention their gear score, like other classes do to sometimes, but also specifically mention they got a Stone and a vorpal. What they are basically saying is: "I know CW isn't really fit to go with you in a dungeon run but I got a 1200 ZEN companion and vorpal stone to make up for that bad choice of class - can I come pretty please?".
Of course it's hard to admit for people who paid for something to admit they got ripped off (like paying $50 for a boring party and saying you had a blast and going to a free party and saying that it was boring... classic) but I sure wish someone had warned me about it like I'm doing now. I played a similar class in a different game and was amongst the top 3 best on the server, similar spells, similar game play. While most aspects are much better in Neverwinter as I counted on when starting the CW, the end result is still the same.
I leveled a GWF from 10-20 with PvP only (with level 10-ish gear and mulhorand set of course), lost only 3 pvp matches, all 3 with the same TR in the enemy team, guess what class he played before the TR... If you're in pvp at lower levels and you're noticing a TR or GWF killing everyone, there's a good chance it's a player who got annoyed playing CW and started another character. Ask and you'll see how common it is. And guess who they target the most...
Several issues that cause the imbalance:
- When a CW teleports it takes on a silly statue-like stance making it walk slowly, shuffle dance, for a second or two. Running is just as fast as teleporting. Effectively, a CW gets a speed DEbuff/penalty after teleporting (which it desperately needs to do to stay alive).
- The shield buff is 'ok', but effectively not worth an encounter slot (of which especially the CW has too little off). The shield should have been a passive (i.e. choose more def over dmg).
- Other classes get awesome skills in the Tab slot and CWs only get to bump a single Power to a Mastery level. That so obviously in no way even compares to for example GWF's Unstoppable power or TRs stealth. It's not even an extra for CW, it's more like 'unnerfing' a power. Repel for example, should always hit multiple targets. Instead it hits 1 target by default and with Mastery slot can be bumped to hitting multiple targets. Same with some other powers, putting it in Mastery slot makes them do what they should be doing by default.
The last one is one of the main causes for the imbalance. Instead of only one mastery skill, the Tab should for example allow for 30 sec buff during which ALL skills are at Mastery level, build up similar to Determination for GWFs.
Or better, ditch the whole failed mastery idea and build up something that allows for unblockable control spells. TRs should not be able to be immune to CW control when they are not in stealth (duh!). TRs should not be able to attack AND remain stealth (really, that makes no sense. One logically gives up stealth once starting to attack). GFs should not be able to block ANY control skills (putting up a Shield to block mind power control... right...) or at least reduce their block value (not saying GFs are challenging for CWs...).
Only positive thing is that I haven't bought a real mount yet for this character. It's a shame I can't transfer my companions to my GWF though.
Ok I'm done, and yes, I feel better now
Post edited by pangeus666 on
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Comments
And... most LFG groups are looking to stack CWs, but the most uber CWs they can get, because they want to kill everything fast for for more runs for more phat lewts. LFG is always about advertising how much you can assist a group in getting the absolute most phat lewts, not about just running a dungeon for fun and hoping you're good enough to finish it.
CWs are not underpowered by any means.
Neverwinter Census 2017
All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
Tr should have defence vs crowd control out of stealth then how could he defend vs it?
Yes great weapon fighter is really strong but you can kite him and you cant kite cws.
Tr should deal dmg out of stealth? Well it our only defence try to win few lvl 60 pvp matches not using stealth or finish some instance quests alone at lvl 60 without using it.Tr might be even more squishy then cw.
Above that who cares cw are squishy they doing best aoe dmg in game.
You see cw's advertising in lfg as they're one of the most popular classes, and as a previous poster stated they're looking at showing what they can bring to a speed run.
Btw sh1tstorm incoming
I'll keep it to a few bullet points so as to avoid the temptation to write a book.
- Spell Mastery is not underpowered. How is being able to slot a fourth encounter and have its effectiveness increased not a very powerful ability? It's anything but "fail."
- CWs can be strongly challenged by good players who know how to use their abilities and work as a team to take them down quickly and avoid being locked down and/or instagibbed, but it doesn't mean that CWs are incapable in PvP by any means. A strong CW will absolutely melt your average PUG and only begins to have to work for it when faced with organized players of comparable gear and skill.
- Teleporting is still faster than running, and you don't see anyone else complaining about it because even more important than the distance covered is the generous helping of invulnerability frames that come with the action.
Basically you just don't grasp how CWs work in this game. The majority is not always right, but the general playerbase has a point when they talk about how important CWs are to groups and how capable the class is overall. It says something that every time the dev team tries to tone down a CW power, players respond with an increased demand for CWs rather than by filling slots with other classes. CW will continue to be the overall most desired PvE class by a mile until Cryptic devises more dungeon mechanics that reward groups for including a wider variety of classes.
Contagion - Cleric
Testament - Wizard
Pestilence - Ranger
Dominion - Paladin
NIGHTSWATCH
The PvP issues have more to do with the queue and lack of placing people into equal combat situations than your class and gear. Your inability to find a group has more to do with your gear, and people looking to run with fast, well geared players. Neither of those will change with your class.
The CW is the most sought after class when looking to run Epic Dungeons. They are also very viable in PvP, but you won't know these things until you properly understand the class, the game in general, and run with and against similarly skilled and geared players.
Join Essence of Aggression: PVP-ing Hard Since Beta!
Even in PVP in rainbow comp or even fights CW are strong.
CW is almost the best class in game atm, only thing that is superior goes to GWF because they are just OP no matter in PVE or PVP. No other class can complete with them in terms of the versatility in PVE and PVP
OK you seem to have gotten lots of negative replies.
Let us even the scale a bit.
While you are probably undergeared, you're not paranoid. CWs, while quite good in PvE (so are GWFs and DCs, and rest of classes can also be pretty good if played by good players), are the lamest PvP class. In every serious premade match CWs die most - regardless of their gear&skills. Basically, if CW did not die most, than the other team did not do their job properly, as their first priority is kill the CW...
Even when fully decked with tanky gear, CWs, have nowhere near the capability that GWFs, DCs or TRs have - to carry teams to victory. CWs are awesome against idiots and pugs - it is true. You can go to scores like 40-0 just because the opponents are weak&unknowledgeable. But all in all, CWs die fast, even those at 35K+ HP, compared to other classes. No heals, no resetting fights, no stealth, no unstoppable. Put pressure on a CW and all his oh-so-amazing CC an burst are gone.
If you want my advice, as a pretty geared CW playing this game for 6 months or so...
- you want to PvE? keep the CW. Get a stone. Patiently gear up, get that vorpal, spec from a proper PvE guide. You will have fun if things stay the same, until you will get BORED from farming the same single instance for AD countless times/day. You will be able to buy perfects and get high ranks of enchants and artifacts - in time.
- you want to PvP? man, ditch this CW, get a GWF, maybe a TR, or a DC if you like support. If you really, REALLY want to PvP as a CW, there's a painful road ahead of you.
And honestly, don;t listen to those that are so enthusiastic about their CWs in PvP. They almost always queue with premades with ubergeared people with a brain, and they can stay in the back most of the times or in a pro DC's circle and have fun playing as the heavy artillery. Put them in a pug, and they will usually leave frustrated whenever there's a good TR or GWF, I've seen many of them doing just that. They are just useless in these scenarios.
Tl;DR: PvE? Keep the CW, gear it up patiently.
PvP? ditch the CW, get god-mode GWF or TR, make it permastealth, GG&have fun.
PvE = CW territorium.
Black Lotus
http://nl.twitch.tv/wixardofoz
Many new Cws over stack offense stats and undervalue defense stats. Don't make that mistake. Lifesteal is absolutely vital.
Secondly don't think about damage, especially single target damage. Cw single target is average at best. I would think control first and damage while you control.
Thirdly, get a stone! No serious PvE player exists without an augment.
For armor enchant, get a lessr soul forge, only 190k, it is literally a lifesaver,
Then pick up a lesser plague fire. They are cream and awesome. I think they are just as good, maybe better, than vorpal.
For pvp, don't pvp with anything less than 12k gs and good defense. You will get eaten alive. I do pretty well on cw in pvp, but until you have good defensive stats and become very, very good at kiting, you are just the other teams punching bag.
That said, a cw is the most desired class in dungeons. I have 6 60s but play cw most often because if I play Anything else I am hurting my team.
Everything you need to know about CW:
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?780981-Chem-s-CW-Compendium-Everything-you-need-to-know
You just need more practice, or a better build/gear(for pvp) possibly.
I have a near 15.9k pvp spec'd/built HR, and the CW"s in our guild will roflstomp him in about 2 seconds if I'm not on my game.
I also have a very good TR that the same will happen if I'm not on my game..
CW's are hard to play....
>Well<
I know this because I used to play one..I was great at her, even made some videos. Last week I decided wth, lets gear her up a bit and play. Perfect vorpal/perfect barkshield, rank 8's and a decent(or so I thought) PvP build. Guess what happened? I got wasted by noobs over and over.....Because CW's are bad? No.......because I haven't played her in a long time, and I am extremely out of practice...That is all
Keep playing, practicing. It may not be for you.
I can tell this though, rolling a fotm class doesn't mean you are going to all of a sudden start owning people.
So many people think you just roll a TR, or roll a GWF and your gonna start <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>.......Easier to learn/play sure...to be good at it? No.......
Practice is what makes people good....
Also............Don't listen to this guy...
Why would he not listen to me?
Every person on this game knows every other class is better to play in PvP than the CW.
So where did I gave bad advice again? There are probably less than 5 competent PvP CWs in the game, and they STILL get wasted most in every serious game, while TRs and GWFs have their usual fun messing around. Even if those few PvP CWs would go 20:0 in all their games, they would still be highly unrepresentative for the CW PvP population.
Please understand, I'm just being realistic.
OP: if going something like 30:50 kill/deaths in premades and being constantly the focus target, always being stunned and proned is your idea of FUN, please do PvP with CW.
Also OP, if you want to get so "good" in PvP, you'll need a huge amount of gear and experience as well.
Good luck.
If you want fast success with low gear in pvp level a gwf or a tr indeed.
(I don't)
Rangers seem killable as a wizard for some reason though. Maybe its because a lot of them are still really undergeared but they seem to die real easy most of the time
On the other hand wizards are the only class that matters in pve, gwfs can do comparable dps by relying on a bugged feat but they bring so much less control who cares? If you want to wreck stuff scroll down and copy stox's build for pve and read the the thread because there are caveats.
Thanks for the extensive reply, I appreciate it. And I agree with everything you said. "To carry teams to victory" - really sums it up. I very rarely see a CW do that, and never as good as any other class could. While I often see the opposite, a team losing because they got the weak CW.
Let me put a couple of things straight:
1. I'm not quitting the game, not raging at all.:rolleyes: I played many mmos over the past decades and this is one of the best imo. Great game, except for the imba fights (e.g. 2 TR or 2 healers on one team, and 2 CWs on other team).
2. I played a similar class in a different game extensively. I know all about the difficulties and skills required to play a class like this. I was the guy that controls 5 people and not only gets away alive but kills every frigging one.
3. Not trolling at all, serious warning to new players, all the others classes are waaaaaaay more fun (played them all in foundry editor). I seriously feel bad for some CWs I can clearly see are going through the exact same thing. Sure CW by itself is a lot of fun to play, maybe even the most fun, it's not the class but the fact it's so obviously imbalanced. Those who think a CW is OP would probably get killed by mine.
3 days GWF, level 28 now, got a friends list of people asking ME to join their parties for PvP. Leveled solely on PvP from lvl 10 and on. Takes 3-4 pvp matches to do a level. I lost maybe 5 matches of the dozens I played since level 10 and used lvl 12-ish gear up to 20+. Only thing that annoys me now are the weak CWs on my team. Yesterday in a match our enemy team had 17 deaths, I had 9 kills and 6 assists (and zero death...). 9 out of 10 times I can predict the outcome of the match simply looking at the classes. Only class that kills me so far occasionally is a TR (and is ALWAYS one that started over from CW!), but then it's after a fight, after I had a chance, and not like with the CW. I can even predict when a CW (in pvp in a certain scenario) is going to die and haven't been wrong about it yet. I see a CW jump off something or walk to a group with certain classes the outcome is very very easy to predict - "you're death".
Yesterday I killed a CW three times in a row and he came back purple instead of blue (he put shield in mastery as a desperate attempt to not get 2/3-hitted by me). Been there, done that, didn't work out.
Fact: playing GWF, DC, GF even, or TR, will get you more friends and party invites than playing CW will. I have 10x the amount of fun. Laughing and smiling while playing instead of being constantly annoyed (imps...), makes me nicer to other players too, everyone happy
As for the person who said Life Steal: my first built focused on life steal before I respecced to power and armor pen (for example, I tried more). Had 11.4% life steal, and while that helps, it only helps if you get a chance to do dmg after you lost some health, which you don't get when a TR or SWF is 3-hitting you. I read more than a few guides, talked to more than a few CWs in game as well. I'm not offended by the l2p suggestion, but it's really not appropriate advice to give 'me'. I'm one of the few CWs I see actually doing CC (crowd control) in dungeons (leading to agro, leading to nearly instant death after stamina runs out).
Most of the advice given to improve the CWs playability is about getting items that are MUCH better spend on another class.
@slushpsycho: only GWFs? Ask any good TR how many key presses and mouse clicks it takes to kill a good CW. :rolleyes: (at most 2 encounters and 3 at wills to be exact). HRs that keep their distance have no trouble shooting off a CW. And that's all just 1vs1, with 2 or more opponents (something a controller should easily be able to handle) it's pointless 9 out of 10 times.
@vorphied: While it is by itself a very powerful ability, it does in no way come close to the abilities other class have. Cannot even be compared. There's no spell you can put in mastery that will make such a huge difference in a fight, while for other classes it is exactly what makes most of the difference. If GWFs didn't have unstoppable but could get an extra encounter slot with only 1 (of many....) being boosted to mastery level they'd be a LOT easier to kill. Same for TR, same for GF.
Edit: Also, if any class has too little encounter slots it's the CW. The control skills and (mage) damage skills are basically combined which leads to crappy control skills (like Repel not being aoe by default and singularity being a daily) and crappy mage skills (dmg skills polluted by control abilities), which is part of the problem with the CW - it's a failed mix of a Psi and a Mage. Sort of like a ranged knight....
@helpimblindinrl: thanks for underlining pers3phone's comments. That best case scenario you describe is what I tried and one I'm not happy with - only good for a load of assists and some occasionally kill-stealing.
Anyway, decided to keep my CW just till my GWF is 60. I'm going to pvp my GWF all the way to 60, buying blue gear with my CWs diamonds. And I do realize that once I hit 60 again I will be up against T2 epics again, but when I die it will be after a fight, might even take a few with me to hell, or delay the enemy group long enough for the rest to cap.
Last but not least, I left the guild I was in because I didn't want my negative opinion about CWs to spoil the fun (if any) for other CWs. So yes, I'm being very negative, and perhaps overly negative out of pure annoyance. That said, I wholeheartedly recommend pers3phone's advice "as a pretty geared CW playing this game for 6 months or so...".
Again, keeping myself to bullet points for brevity
- Unstoppable is undeniably powerful, but I don't really see why we are trying to compare it directly to Spell Mastery. CW vs. GWF is a different and much more specific conversation than "CW is too weak," and most people in the thread will agree that GWFs running certain builds are very strong in PvP, arguably to the point of being unbalanced. On the other hand, GWF absolutely needs some form of Unstoppable since the class has no innate shift/dodge/teleport mechanic and would be CCed and destroyed with incredible ease without it.
- pers3phone has some good points, but I think the overall tone is excessively negative and should be taken with a grain of salt. Most of us can admit that playing CW against certain premade team comps is significantly more challenging, but that doesn't make the class somehow useless or flat out painful to play. I, too, am an experienced CW with end-game equipment and enchants, and the outlook is not all that bleak unless you find yourself in a PUG against a premade team of GWFs, in which case no class is going to have a fun time of it. It's not exclusively a CW problem.
- I really don't get your take on CW abilities. They are exceedingly powerful in PvE and overall not shabby in PvP, either. Kill-stealing is hardly necessary. Again, premades with strong GWFs/GFs and intelligently played TRs are the only ones who can effectively challenge an end-game CW, at which point the CW concedes the advantage. CWs are also extremely effective at preventing DCs from functioning properly because of their ranged control powers.
Anyway, you're certainly entitled to your opinion, and I definitely encourage you to play another class if you remain unsatisfied with CW, but I really question where you're coming from. If I were to summarize my own take on CWs in PvE and PvP, it would go something like this:
CW PvE: Highest AoE damage and control potential. Throw in a healthy Regen and a bit of Life Steal if you want to be completely absurd with your trash clear and self-sustain.
CW PvP: Poses an extreme threat to the average player, but effectiveness drops off against certain end-game Premade team comps. Benefits from strong DC support when facing other skilled players to help mitigate focused fire. Still devastating if left unchecked or when an enemy makes a mistake.
Contagion - Cleric
Testament - Wizard
Pestilence - Ranger
Dominion - Paladin
NIGHTSWATCH
.....troll.....
My guess is that it's not a troll, but an 8k GS TR who went from solo PvE straight into lvl 60 PvP since undergeared and inexperienced TRs are wizard food.
That bit about kiting GWFs is also kind of funny now that most PvP GWFs are closing the gap faster than ever thanks to having inherited the At-Will from Iron Vanguard :P Kiting a CW is about as simple as /stealth or /ITC. It's to be expected that a TR caught without stealth and with ITC on cooldown will probably die, but that's a reasonable trade-off (and a pretty small window if the TR is skilled and picks fights intelligently).
Contagion - Cleric
Testament - Wizard
Pestilence - Ranger
Dominion - Paladin
NIGHTSWATCH
I will say one thing. I ran into a CW the other night that trolled me on my GWF. I normally head to the enemy point and keep it contested. They sent a CW that I think must have switched to a grey level 1 weapon or something because he chain cc'd me with repel, entangling force, and chill shard while avoiding doing enough damage to let me pop unstoppable. I kept being blasted off of point by it. He couldn't kill me but he sure could troll me with what he was doing.
Yeah, that is one way to contest a node 1v1 with a GWF :P Cheesy, but effective trolling.
Contagion - Cleric
Testament - Wizard
Pestilence - Ranger
Dominion - Paladin
NIGHTSWATCH
Hey
I want to clarify some stuff. I still play my CW in PvP everyday, and if I'm not asked by friends to go PvP with them, I always solo queue. Even when I solo queue, because my months of play and gear I'm usually able to enjoy myself and end up with good to very good K/D scores 90% of the times.
However, when I meet PvPers that are around the same gearing as me, things change significantly if I'm not in premade. This holds truth almost regardless of build. The most important thing is having tons of HP, you got that, and things will start to work out better. This also holds truth even in the Preview server, with full PvP focused build and gear.
Also I wanna point out that these people that are a threat to my CW are probably 1% or so (if...) of the game population.
These things being said...
- you will still be the focus target of any team with brains. Without a DC (which happens often), you will spend time in full CC before dying. No skills will save you. This is not fun for us.
- we have only 3 dodges and cannot reset fights, and also cannot heal. TRs have stealth and ITC they can reset, regen, return. GWF has unstoppable®en&DR&huge damage, they don't even need to reset fight 90% of the times, but can and will if things are bad. DCs can withstand HUGE amount of punishing and heal through most of it. GFs block sadly is just as bad overall as the CW dodge. HRs again can reset fights with their limited stealth and escape mechanics.
- any good GWF is an almost impossible matchup for CW at similar levels of gear. Do I still kill them? Yeah, I still kill many of them (and don't stand any chance against the very good ones, which is OK), but it's only cause I PvPed almost everyday for months and the decent gear.
- any good TR is again an almost impossible matchup
- HRs and GFs are almost balanced matchups, this is how things should be overall
- DCs? poor DCs
OK.
The truly important question, especially for a newer player, is...
... After all these things, would you rather still play a CW in PvP? Or would you go with hulk-smash godlike GWF? Have fun hiding and throwing daggers at guys undetected as a permaninja-TR? Go ranged&melee with all kinds of cool mechanics with newkidontheblock HR? Troll people to death if this is your thing with the tankmode DC?
TL;DR: OP, you will not be able to enjoy the CW in PvP for a LONG time. Even after the long time passes, you will still gonna be usually the prey not the hunter. Other classes are better suited for PvP IMO.
There's no question about PvE however, it is enjoyable as a CW, the class is very capable.
disagree only in part because the problem of PVP are many but not necessarily a lack of brains but lack of communication and this is the relevant difference between premades and pugs. in relation to remaining fully agree because each class has strengths and weaknesses and this is the balance we believe that developers like to pursue both.
Hi there
I kind of figured all of this is what you were saying, but I wanted to make sure the OP didn't get the wrong idea from your very frank opinion on the matter :P
As for which class I'd rather play, in my own case it would still have been CW even as a newbie. Melee bruiser play style bores me; just not my cup of tea. It is, however, done so much better in this game than in others I've played (I got mine to 60, at least, but didn't stay interested in playing it). If the OP ends up preferring GWF, then he should play that. I just took pains to highlight the positives because a lot of his dissatisfaction with CW seems to be coming from a place of inexperience.
Contagion - Cleric
Testament - Wizard
Pestilence - Ranger
Dominion - Paladin
NIGHTSWATCH
Killing DCs fast or freezing GFs is a job which CWs are good at.
Really like to see Oppressors in action but never seen CWs to specialize other than Renegade/Thaum.
The new Control resistance changes will fearfully affect CWs play in pvp.