With a good (healer) DC near CW is good at defending nodes. But thats true for a Gwf as well.
Killing DCs fast or freezing GFs is a job which CWs are good at.
Really like to see Oppressors in action but never seen CWs to specialize other than Renegade/Thaum.
The new Control resistance changes will fearfully affect CWs play in pvp.
I know a few oppressors. They are awesome at keeping you permafrozen. It's almost as bad as if you would got those HR vines proccing on you all time. Obviously they will lack shard and icy ray bonuses, and that's a big hit.
Ok until the part where you mentioned the "tab skill" basically being worthless compared to other classes I assumed this was just a rage quit thread, but after reading that I know you must be trolling...It is literally the best Tab ability in game...A extra ability slot is incredible and Id love to have that option on other classes.
CWs will always be the most wanted class in PvE and one of the best PvP classes -.- but I like how you went from one of the more op'ish classes straight to the most OP class in pvp...seriously love fotm type of people "X class is OP so ill play it regardless of it i enjoy playing it or not"...these are the kinda people that quit shortly after their reroll either due to still sucking on said OP class or the class gets nerfed and they rage
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uurbsMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 449Bounty Hunter
[...]
Fact: playing GWF, DC, GF even, or TR, will get you more friends and party invites than playing CW will. I have 10x the amount of fun. Laughing and smiling while playing instead of being constantly annoyed (imps...), makes me nicer to other players too, everyone happy [...]
If you're only considering PvP (which I do not like), you may be right. But in regards to PvE I've yet to see any other class constantly out-damaging me or doing even a margin of the CC I can do with my CW. The CW can carry a group a lot better and is a lot more helpful than any other class--in PvE.
And I do also have an amount of "friends" (in the so called list), who do ask me regularly for party invites (PvE).
tl;dr: Stick to the GWF for PvP and use the CW for PvE (and maybe learn to play it).
Proud member of Dragon Clan - German Gaming Community
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degraafinationMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited January 2014
Very confused about all of these posts saying CWs are a poor choice in PVP. I love playing mine more than my GWFs, and both are 15.5k-16k GS.
1) I truly believe the CWs role is the wandering killer. Normally, I pair up with another CW or HR, and we move as a team. We can burst down the tankiest of Sentis very quickly that way. If you like this role, play a CW.
2) Sentinel GWFs role is primarily a point holder and tank. If you like this role, play a GWF.
3) Module 3 will mean less healing and less burst damage all around. CWs will survive a bit longer, GWFs will go down a bit faster with Tenacity attribute and Healing Depression. I'm much more excited about my CW for Mod 3 than my GWF.
Regardless, any class can be played well! True story, Trace.
Regardless, any class can be played well! True story, Trace.
^^ This is the truth.
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chemboy613Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,521Arc User
edited January 2014
Yeah, most of this thread is right.
A good cw in PvE is simply amazing. I can't imagine watching a good one and thinking otherwise.
As for pvp I sometimes switch to tr because I get tired of being gangbanged, but I do decently in pvp too. Just cw is squishy, seems like I never have enough stamina, and even with good gear have a hard time bringing down sent gwf.
That said man, I hope you keep that cw. You won't get asked to many pvps but you will get asked to dungeons.
Everybody is right from their perspective. If you are in a pvp guild, have 16k GS, run with a pocket healer or do mostly premades then you are going to love the CW. If you run as a PuG with normal gear and run against any team that has a slight idea of what he is doing then you got to run for your money. That's not bad, but I am just making sure that people understand that.
16kGS people on a PvP guild, and lesser geared people trying to learn the class just because they enjoy PvP, play two entirely different games. I am not saying that either one is bad or good, but you got to keep in mind that you are addressing different worlds when posting on such threads as the OP's.
CWs are amazing in PvE, and can be enjoyable in PvP. Obviously the second is much harder if you are going in solo, but that's how things are for squishies. The bad thing is that right now, CWs are the only class that has no self perservation mechanism in PvP. This is what makes it bad.
Finding a team that enjoys playing with you, will enhance your game experience in PvP for sure.
Very confused about all of these posts saying CWs are a poor choice in PVP. I love playing mine more than my GWFs, and both are 15.5k-16k GS.
1) I truly believe the CWs role is the wandering killer. Normally, I pair up with another CW or HR, and we move as a team. We can burst down the tankiest of Sentis very quickly that way. If you like this role, play a CW.
2) Sentinel GWFs role is primarily a point holder and tank. If you like this role, play a GWF.
3) Module 3 will mean less healing and less burst damage all around. CWs will survive a bit longer, GWFs will go down a bit faster with Tenacity attribute and Healing Depression. I'm much more excited about my CW for Mod 3 than my GWF.
Regardless, any class can be played well! True story, Trace.
CWs are amazing in PvE, and can be enjoyable in PvP. Obviously the second is much harder if you are going in solo, but that's how things are for squishies.
What do you mean by solo?
Have 8 chars. I was leveling my cw faster than any other char.
Or you mean the daily lairs? Its fast as well.
Everybody is right from their perspective. If you are in a pvp guild, have 16k GS, run with a pocket healer or do mostly premades then you are going to love the CW. If you run as a PuG with normal gear and run against any team that has a slight idea of what he is doing then you got to run for your money. That's not bad, but I am just making sure that people understand that.
Just to show what CWs can expect in high end premade PvP. There's another CW there, not only I. We are easily recognized by the fact... we die the most :P
The match was with great, amazing "pocket-healer" for more than half of it.
These kind of numbers are not really happening only to me or something, they're pretty much a staple of any close premades with CWs. I said it before, if the CW doesn't die A LOT, then the other team is not doing their job - simple as that.
You like dying this huge amount of times? Sure, roll PvP CW. But first take a look at the GF/GWF/TR numbers and think: wouldn't you like to be the one going 29-8, 47-15 or 22-5 instead of 25-43? Your decision.
dev's know that cw is to weak for pvp compared to other classes.
but they also know that cw is op beyond repair in pve.
its their way of balancing.
how you dont understand that this is a f2p and most people farm ad.and cw has a huge advantage there.
you cant have it all....and if u get it one day be sure that every single f2p guy will roll a cw.
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pers3phoneBanned Users, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
dev's know that cw is to weak for pvp compared to other classes.
but they also know that cw is op beyond repair in pve.
its their way of balancing.
how you dont understand that this is a f2p and most people farm ad.and cw has a huge advantage there.
you cant have it all....and if u get it one day be sure that every single f2p guy will roll a cw.
Yes, I hope they know, since the lead PvP dev played a CW on Preview and got destroyed.
I don't think however some classes are OP in either PvE or PvP.
I think that, for example, the GWF class is in an awesome place in both PvE and PvP. They can do huge amounts of damage in PvE, go redman and savagely beat on the poor mobs, generating lots of big, beautiful orange crit numbers. They can tank people in PvP, hulk-smash them over the head in nice prones, stick on to teleporting wizards and drop TRs out of stealth with nice bleeds. They hit for a lot and have nice mechanics such as sprint and unstoppable.
All in all, this makes the GWF an attractive and fun class to play in this game.
It should stay like this and no nerfs should be applied.
OK then, the question is then, how do you keep the fun for GWFs (I'm just keeping them as an example since class seems in a good place overall IMO) without ruining it for others?
You bring all other classes to par, and give them choices, while also letting players enjoy both PvE and PvP through Dual Spec.
So you don't nerf CW in PvE, but you bring TR, HR, GF up to par, and make them equally useful. You make tanking required. You make CC required. You make healing and ranged and melee DPS ALL required.
Example simplified dungeon:
First boss might be a brute-type. Lots of heavy armor and physical damage reduction. Melee damage on boss almost insignificant, but the boss will take lots of damage from fire, arcane, cold, poisons, radiant damage. Casters required, you cannot go in without at least one.
Second boss, caster-type, has magic immunity shield. It won't take damage unless some high physical DPS will take down the shield (i.e. a TR for example). You don't bring TR, boss will wipe your party cause you have too low dps to deal with it.
Third boss hits uberhard. If you don't have a tank that eats the shots and survives, the boss will easily wipe the party. Even the tank is barely surviving, so he needs full healer attention. You don't bring GF and DC, you die.
Last boss has distinct phases. Phase one is add spam: no CW for AoE and CC=wipe. 2nd phase, boss takes up on the air where only a HR can reach it. He periodically spawns adds so HR will need to damage boss fast enough until the party is not overwhelmed. 3rd phase, when boss is damaged enough, he will land and enrage. It will deal HUGE damage to anything but a full tank with heals on it.
This is how you fix things, without nerfing anything.
All in all, this makes the GWF an attractive and fun class to play in this game
Yes, everyone told me to try a GWF, as a "new" player. So I did. The character barely made it to level 12 before I was so bored stiff with the play style I couldn't take it any longer, deleted it, started a CW to go with my TR, & have never looked back.
Others may have very different experiences, so I'm not saying you're *wrong,* simply that what works as an "attractive & fun" class for some people is a boring-as-40-miles-of-dirt-road class for others.
Fare you well
Let your life proceed by its own designs
Nothing to tell
Let the words be yours, I'm done with mine ...
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twstdechoMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 630Bounty Hunter
Just to show what CWs can expect in high end premade PvP. There's another CW there, not only I. We are easily recognized by the fact... we die the most :P
The match was with great, amazing "pocket-healer" for more than half of it.
These kind of numbers are not really happening only to me or something, they're pretty much a staple of any close premades with CWs. I said it before, if the CW doesn't die A LOT, then the other team is not doing their job - simple as that.
You like dying this huge amount of times? Sure, roll PvP CW. But first take a look at the GF/GWF/TR numbers and think: wouldn't you like to be the one going 29-8, 47-15 or 22-5 instead of 25-43? Your decision.
Do enjoy the pic.
And yet, after all the comments about how bad CW's are in PVP, there you are, third highest in kills, second highest in assists, and third highest score over all.
CW's should die the most, we are squishy and powerful so other teams should focus on bringing us down as quickly as possible.
I think too many people are focused on individual accolades instead of the overall team performance. In PvP sure, but also in PvE as well with everyone focused on the DPS output instead of how smooth the runs go, or how quickly, everyone just wants to top some silly chart.
I think too many people are focused on individual accolades instead of the overall team performance. In PvP sure, but also in PvE as well with everyone focused on the DPS output instead of how smooth the runs go, or how quickly, everyone just wants to top some silly chart.
This, reiterated to enhance truthiness.
Fare you well
Let your life proceed by its own designs
Nothing to tell
Let the words be yours, I'm done with mine ...
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pers3phoneBanned Users, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
And yet, after all the comments about how bad CW's are in PVP, there you are, third highest in kills, second highest in assists, and third highest score over all.
CW's should die the most, we are squishy and powerful so other teams should focus on bringing us down as quickly as possible.
I think too many people are focused on individual accolades instead of the overall team performance. In PvP sure, but also in PvE as well with everyone focused on the DPS output instead of how smooth the runs go, or how quickly, everyone just wants to top some silly chart.
This is a game, and it is about FUN. There's a lot of fun for that GF with 47-15 reign of destruction. Lot of fun for the immortal sents with 16-1/22-5. Still fun for CWs, but... not that much, honestly.
And this is about the OP as well. As a newer player, why choose CW for PvP? Sure, choose one for PvE, 100%. But PvP? Nah, get the class having most fun. IMO that class is now permaTR. There's just no challenge to their ninja playstyle.
You just don't feel powerful. You feel hunted, always a victim on the run looking for an opportunity to unload.
The moment CWs will not be first targets any longer in PvP, but there will be confusion which target is supposed to be the priority, then we will be fine.
And if you think I'm all about ending up on top, I am not. I could have made even more kills if I would have played a certain combination, but it would have been less AoE CC and no prones, which we all know how important they are against people that are nearly unkillable otherwise.
In that other MMO I played, my mage went through a stage like this, when we were so **** squish and died a lot. Then we got boosted with survival and CC spells and we had much more fun in PvP. It didn't mean we were overpowered, it just brought us up to par with other classes. I remember so well when actually in Arena people had to count the rotations of the enemy and go after the guys on cooldowns, not "always get the CW, get that CW!!!".
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twstdechoMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 630Bounty Hunter
edited January 2014
In a team premade match, there will (should) always be a priority list of targets to effectively take down the other team. That's not to say we don't suffer from being over squishy now in PvP, or that things don't need to be improved, but unless the dev team decides on putting some serious focus on PvP balance, it will always kind of be that way.
My point is, don't dwell on the negatives, look at the big picture.
Ultimately though, we can agree on one thing. If you aren't having fun playing your character, the answer may come in another class. However, upon reading the OP, it feels more like his problem is being undergeared in general (when taking into account both his PvP and PvE complaints) and I will be surprised if he doesn't have the same issues with his GWF that he had with his CW once he hits 60. PvP while leveling is a completely different experience.
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tang56Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
And yet, after all the comments about how bad CW's are in PVP, there you are, third highest in kills, second highest in assists, and third highest score over all.
Yes, but look how many times both her and the other CW died. CW is fun, but a lot of the time you feel like fodder rather than anything else, bam...one kill, dead. or bam, repelled them off point...dead.
I LOVE playing my CW in PvP, even when I am against a pre-made that is stomping my rear end into a mud puddle. I used to get absolutely SLAUGHTERED, now I can hold my own in most fights. I may lose, but (usually) the other player will know that he was in a fight. Some GWFs still destroy me, and a few TRs can succeed in 1-shotting me, but the number of them that can seem to be far fewer, partly because of my improved gear but mostly due to my increased experience at PvP. (I have met VERY few HRs that cause me problems, but the couple that I have seen are really tough to take out). By way of comparrisson I also have a HR at 16k, GWF at 14.5k, GF at 14k, and a TR at 12k.
Now, when the rest of my team quits, I try and ask for 1v1s, or if they would be kind enough to let me cap a point so that I will at least get glory for my time. I think it is about 50/50 if they will be polite or not. I also have been told "REPORTED FOR CAP TRADING!!!" on more than one occasion, lol. I am NOT a proponent of organized teams simply trading caps and not fighting, but when it is 5v2 and you already have a score of 800-100, why not let the other team at least get a little glory as long as it does not extend the match too much.
It is a totally different experience in PvE. In PvE I feel like a god. The amount of damage we do is quite insane, coupled with the control that we have a PvE CW is a holy terror in most dungeons.
I can not quite understand the OPs comment: "Always CWs looking for group who then mention their gear score, like other classes do to sometimes, but also specifically mention they got a Stone and a vorpal. What they are basically saying is: "I know CW isn't really fit to go with you in a dungeon run but I got a 1200 ZEN companion and vorpal stone to make up for that bad choice of class - can I come pretty please?". CWs mention their GS as a means to demonstrate that they have done a lot of content, to make them look better than the myriad other CWs that are also looking for groups, and to show off a bit. The easiest runs in this game are typically 4 CWs+DC. Some people might even tell you that 3 CWs are required for some missions. I do not think more than 1 CW is "required", but I will admit that the more CWs in a group the smoother it seems to go.
Last night we ran MC, GWD, FH and VT... our group was 3 CWs, HR, DC. We absolutely destroyed everything in our path. The OPs experience as a CW does not seem to match the experiences of most other CWs in the game.
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chemboy613Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,521Arc User
edited January 2014
Someone in here said a few things ringing true...
Yes, people care too much about themselves and not the team, and that is a big problem. Read my cw guide for more info there, because I truly believe in team first.
Secondly I also find gwf mind numbing to play. It is like it sucks the brains out if me. I don't find them interesting, but I know that many excellent gwfs are out there.
As for gs, I don't mention it anymore. I can do anything in cw, that's enough.
But I will admit in pvp the must fun is on my burst tr or a conq gf in defense regen gear, once you get two gwf trying to prone you cw is kite for life and beg for help. Not that I'm bad on cw... It's just class mechanics.
I have a 60 cw, dc, gwf, hr. 58 tr and gf. Just to give an idea of what I know.
My highest GS I believe is probably 11k? I PVP, so GS isn't as important.
I got my gwf to 60 first and immediately stopped playing him. I enjoyed the style of combat, but I just couldn't keep going with it. Melee is not for me.
I did most of my leveling in PVP. I've carried teams as my CW. To which everyone says 'below 60, etc, etc' I know. At 60, it does require a team to play as a team to do anything. Although my highest k/d ratio is 2-64... on my DC.
When I PVP with my CW, I hit hard, I do dots. Do I die? Sure, if there's more than 1. Repel is better than shield, but I also prefer a pro-active defense. Can TRs tear me up? of course. Paper, meet scissors. However, I also know that 2 CW working together can hold 5 enemies at a spot. I've seen it happen and I've done it with others.
I play a CW and rogue in competitive gameplay (guild vs guild). I am MUCH better at my cw then tr, to the point that its very very clear. When my clan goes to make pre-mades vs another guild guess which of my chars is always requested? You got it! The tr that I'm not even half as good at playing. TR has WAY more control of domination type pvp then a cw does. Reading all these people saying CW is balanced vs other classes confused me. Hit me up and teach me how 2 cw if its a L2p issue, cuz honestly at this point in time CW is 2nd weakest class for domination style pvp.
Lets analyze this. For a cw to do this properly it usually requires another person to roam with them. If you solo roam the 1st time you come against 2 (this is in premades) you are gonna get splatted without an ally to assist. On my rogue when i play this role and i c 2 i go invis wind up duelist and BLAMO one goes down. I don't see any situation where my cw will be able to do a roll in PREMADE pvp better then all the other classes. Every other class has its specialty, a single thing that it does better then any othere class. CW was supposed to be CC and well, lets face it, GF and GWF have us beat. Prone > CC and they can tank and hold point while doing it. Cw are required to constantly move/or back off and concede points to maintain proper control. Those tanks can stand there and eat dmg holding a point and then when the encounter starts they have more CC. CW needs a roll to fit into competitive pvp.
On another note, how does tenacity benifit a CW at all? As of last time i checked (prior to the pvp armor release) the DR was Multiplitive NOT ADDITIVE! Those tank classes are going to get WAY more benefit then we are. I dont need 20 percent of my ****ty defense if its going to give 20 percent to the guys with actualy stats in it. After this patch goes thru cw will move from 2nd worst to worst in pvp. Feel free to rebuttle what i said becuase i love my cw but with the way things going TR i will come!
pers3phone is on the money, pvp for wizards is brutally unfun if the enemy team has any brains. Even if they don't they're going to try to kill you first because they know you are squishiest easiest kill and your only chance to survive alone is to hope their lust for points from capping exceeds their bloodlust. Best case scenario is you play support and do spike damage every so often to finish people off and they don't pay attention to you, but they will and your teammates probably won't help you.
Rangers seem killable as a wizard for some reason though. Maybe its because a lot of them are still really undergeared but they seem to die real easy most of the time
On the other hand wizards are the only class that matters in pve, gwfs can do comparable dps by relying on a bugged feat but they bring so much less control who cares? If you want to wreck stuff scroll down and copy stox's build for pve and read the the thread because there are caveats.
Im only lvl 32 GF and PvPing with CW on the other team sucks too! I mean I might get a couple steps before Im knocked , frozen, slowed slammed up and down like a rag doll! Most annoying class in game... Then couple all that control with great damage too?
I mean massive control, massive damage, and your complaining your squishy? Can't have it all man!
Shieldbash60 GF ~ Iron Vanguard19.0k Overpowered60 CW~ Thaumaturge14.5k ==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
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twstdechoMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 630Bounty Hunter
edited February 2014
PvP at 60 is not even remotely close to the same thing as PvP pre 60. Different classes hit their PvP stride at different levels along the way, so don't expect things to be anything near balanced.
I cannot see CW's getting less powerful at end game! They already can control a party of 2-3 players... I only see them panic is when they are hit buy a stealthed TR in combat, then they cc him and run away...
Shieldbash60 GF ~ Iron Vanguard19.0k Overpowered60 CW~ Thaumaturge14.5k ==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
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twstdechoMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 630Bounty Hunter
I cannot see CW's getting less powerful at end game! They already can control a party of 2-3 players... I only see them panic is when they are hit buy a stealthed TR in combat, then they cc him and run away...
Don't think of it in terms of CW's getting less powerful, think of it in terms of other classes getting more powerful and gaining ways to counter CW's as they get up into higher levels.
As a CW, i can see some valid things in the OP. I'm sitting at 10.7k GS, and i have a hell time finding groups, ive been playing on this CW since launch, and see how far that got me with nobody wanting me in a group. Yet when i manage to find (rarely) a group with the dungeon queuer, i end up with some 13-14k GS people that can't play the game, or keeps using some exploit to skip half the bosses and other half of the instance.
As a CW, i can see some valid things in the OP. I'm sitting at 10.7k GS, and i have a hell time finding groups, ive been playing on this CW since launch, and see how far that got me with nobody wanting me in a group. Yet when i manage to find (rarely) a group with the dungeon queuer, i end up with some 13-14k GS people that can't play the game, or keeps using some exploit to skip half the bosses and other half of the instance.
I think that you are having issues finding a group not because they don't want a CW, but because there are LOTS of CWs out there, and (no offense intended), many of those CWs have a much higher GS than you currently do. When people are forming up in the LFG or Zone chat channels they are most likely going to take the person with the highest GS, simply because they have almost no additional information on which to make their decision.
If you have not already, please join the NW_Legit_Community channel. Lots of good people there, and I have not seen any "elitism" from the members. I think you will find grouping with people on that channel MUCH more pleasant. ANd while you are there, feel free to look me up @tickdoff, if i am not otherwise engaged I will run some missions with you.
Comments
I know a few oppressors. They are awesome at keeping you permafrozen. It's almost as bad as if you would got those HR vines proccing on you all time. Obviously they will lack shard and icy ray bonuses, and that's a big hit.
CWs will always be the most wanted class in PvE and one of the best PvP classes -.- but I like how you went from one of the more op'ish classes straight to the most OP class in pvp...seriously love fotm type of people "X class is OP so ill play it regardless of it i enjoy playing it or not"...these are the kinda people that quit shortly after their reroll either due to still sucking on said OP class or the class gets nerfed and they rage
And I do also have an amount of "friends" (in the so called list), who do ask me regularly for party invites (PvE).
tl;dr: Stick to the GWF for PvP and use the CW for PvE (and maybe learn to play it).
1) I truly believe the CWs role is the wandering killer. Normally, I pair up with another CW or HR, and we move as a team. We can burst down the tankiest of Sentis very quickly that way. If you like this role, play a CW.
2) Sentinel GWFs role is primarily a point holder and tank. If you like this role, play a GWF.
3) Module 3 will mean less healing and less burst damage all around. CWs will survive a bit longer, GWFs will go down a bit faster with Tenacity attribute and Healing Depression. I'm much more excited about my CW for Mod 3 than my GWF.
Regardless, any class can be played well! True story, Trace.
Join Essence of Aggression: PVP-ing Hard Since Beta!
A good cw in PvE is simply amazing. I can't imagine watching a good one and thinking otherwise.
As for pvp I sometimes switch to tr because I get tired of being gangbanged, but I do decently in pvp too. Just cw is squishy, seems like I never have enough stamina, and even with good gear have a hard time bringing down sent gwf.
That said man, I hope you keep that cw. You won't get asked to many pvps but you will get asked to dungeons.
Everything you need to know about CW:
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?780981-Chem-s-CW-Compendium-Everything-you-need-to-know
16kGS people on a PvP guild, and lesser geared people trying to learn the class just because they enjoy PvP, play two entirely different games. I am not saying that either one is bad or good, but you got to keep in mind that you are addressing different worlds when posting on such threads as the OP's.
CWs are amazing in PvE, and can be enjoyable in PvP. Obviously the second is much harder if you are going in solo, but that's how things are for squishies. The bad thing is that right now, CWs are the only class that has no self perservation mechanism in PvP. This is what makes it bad.
Finding a team that enjoys playing with you, will enhance your game experience in PvP for sure.
funny how your guild cw refuse to learn from you.
What do you mean by solo?
Have 8 chars. I was leveling my cw faster than any other char.
Or you mean the daily lairs? Its fast as well.
I was refering to PvP queue. Going solo without any friends to support you. Just indicating how 'random' friends can help your PvP enjoyment.
Just to show what CWs can expect in high end premade PvP. There's another CW there, not only I. We are easily recognized by the fact... we die the most :P
The match was with great, amazing "pocket-healer" for more than half of it.
These kind of numbers are not really happening only to me or something, they're pretty much a staple of any close premades with CWs. I said it before, if the CW doesn't die A LOT, then the other team is not doing their job - simple as that.
You like dying this huge amount of times? Sure, roll PvP CW. But first take a look at the GF/GWF/TR numbers and think: wouldn't you like to be the one going 29-8, 47-15 or 22-5 instead of 25-43? Your decision.
Do enjoy the pic.
but they also know that cw is op beyond repair in pve.
its their way of balancing.
how you dont understand that this is a f2p and most people farm ad.and cw has a huge advantage there.
you cant have it all....and if u get it one day be sure that every single f2p guy will roll a cw.
Yes, I hope they know, since the lead PvP dev played a CW on Preview and got destroyed.
I don't think however some classes are OP in either PvE or PvP.
I think that, for example, the GWF class is in an awesome place in both PvE and PvP. They can do huge amounts of damage in PvE, go redman and savagely beat on the poor mobs, generating lots of big, beautiful orange crit numbers. They can tank people in PvP, hulk-smash them over the head in nice prones, stick on to teleporting wizards and drop TRs out of stealth with nice bleeds. They hit for a lot and have nice mechanics such as sprint and unstoppable.
All in all, this makes the GWF an attractive and fun class to play in this game.
It should stay like this and no nerfs should be applied.
OK then, the question is then, how do you keep the fun for GWFs (I'm just keeping them as an example since class seems in a good place overall IMO) without ruining it for others?
You bring all other classes to par, and give them choices, while also letting players enjoy both PvE and PvP through Dual Spec.
So you don't nerf CW in PvE, but you bring TR, HR, GF up to par, and make them equally useful. You make tanking required. You make CC required. You make healing and ranged and melee DPS ALL required.
Example simplified dungeon:
First boss might be a brute-type. Lots of heavy armor and physical damage reduction. Melee damage on boss almost insignificant, but the boss will take lots of damage from fire, arcane, cold, poisons, radiant damage. Casters required, you cannot go in without at least one.
Second boss, caster-type, has magic immunity shield. It won't take damage unless some high physical DPS will take down the shield (i.e. a TR for example). You don't bring TR, boss will wipe your party cause you have too low dps to deal with it.
Third boss hits uberhard. If you don't have a tank that eats the shots and survives, the boss will easily wipe the party. Even the tank is barely surviving, so he needs full healer attention. You don't bring GF and DC, you die.
Last boss has distinct phases. Phase one is add spam: no CW for AoE and CC=wipe. 2nd phase, boss takes up on the air where only a HR can reach it. He periodically spawns adds so HR will need to damage boss fast enough until the party is not overwhelmed. 3rd phase, when boss is damaged enough, he will land and enrage. It will deal HUGE damage to anything but a full tank with heals on it.
This is how you fix things, without nerfing anything.
Yes, everyone told me to try a GWF, as a "new" player. So I did. The character barely made it to level 12 before I was so bored stiff with the play style I couldn't take it any longer, deleted it, started a CW to go with my TR, & have never looked back.
Others may have very different experiences, so I'm not saying you're *wrong,* simply that what works as an "attractive & fun" class for some people is a boring-as-40-miles-of-dirt-road class for others.
Let your life proceed by its own designs
Nothing to tell
Let the words be yours, I'm done with mine ...
And yet, after all the comments about how bad CW's are in PVP, there you are, third highest in kills, second highest in assists, and third highest score over all.
CW's should die the most, we are squishy and powerful so other teams should focus on bringing us down as quickly as possible.
I think too many people are focused on individual accolades instead of the overall team performance. In PvP sure, but also in PvE as well with everyone focused on the DPS output instead of how smooth the runs go, or how quickly, everyone just wants to top some silly chart.
This, reiterated to enhance truthiness.
Let your life proceed by its own designs
Nothing to tell
Let the words be yours, I'm done with mine ...
This is a game, and it is about FUN. There's a lot of fun for that GF with 47-15 reign of destruction. Lot of fun for the immortal sents with 16-1/22-5. Still fun for CWs, but... not that much, honestly.
And this is about the OP as well. As a newer player, why choose CW for PvP? Sure, choose one for PvE, 100%. But PvP? Nah, get the class having most fun. IMO that class is now permaTR. There's just no challenge to their ninja playstyle.
You just don't feel powerful. You feel hunted, always a victim on the run looking for an opportunity to unload.
The moment CWs will not be first targets any longer in PvP, but there will be confusion which target is supposed to be the priority, then we will be fine.
And if you think I'm all about ending up on top, I am not. I could have made even more kills if I would have played a certain combination, but it would have been less AoE CC and no prones, which we all know how important they are against people that are nearly unkillable otherwise.
In that other MMO I played, my mage went through a stage like this, when we were so **** squish and died a lot. Then we got boosted with survival and CC spells and we had much more fun in PvP. It didn't mean we were overpowered, it just brought us up to par with other classes. I remember so well when actually in Arena people had to count the rotations of the enemy and go after the guys on cooldowns, not "always get the CW, get that CW!!!".
My point is, don't dwell on the negatives, look at the big picture.
Ultimately though, we can agree on one thing. If you aren't having fun playing your character, the answer may come in another class. However, upon reading the OP, it feels more like his problem is being undergeared in general (when taking into account both his PvP and PvE complaints) and I will be surprised if he doesn't have the same issues with his GWF that he had with his CW once he hits 60. PvP while leveling is a completely different experience.
Yes, but look how many times both her and the other CW died. CW is fun, but a lot of the time you feel like fodder rather than anything else, bam...one kill, dead. or bam, repelled them off point...dead.
Now, when the rest of my team quits, I try and ask for 1v1s, or if they would be kind enough to let me cap a point so that I will at least get glory for my time. I think it is about 50/50 if they will be polite or not. I also have been told "REPORTED FOR CAP TRADING!!!" on more than one occasion, lol. I am NOT a proponent of organized teams simply trading caps and not fighting, but when it is 5v2 and you already have a score of 800-100, why not let the other team at least get a little glory as long as it does not extend the match too much.
It is a totally different experience in PvE. In PvE I feel like a god. The amount of damage we do is quite insane, coupled with the control that we have a PvE CW is a holy terror in most dungeons.
I can not quite understand the OPs comment: "Always CWs looking for group who then mention their gear score, like other classes do to sometimes, but also specifically mention they got a Stone and a vorpal. What they are basically saying is: "I know CW isn't really fit to go with you in a dungeon run but I got a 1200 ZEN companion and vorpal stone to make up for that bad choice of class - can I come pretty please?". CWs mention their GS as a means to demonstrate that they have done a lot of content, to make them look better than the myriad other CWs that are also looking for groups, and to show off a bit. The easiest runs in this game are typically 4 CWs+DC. Some people might even tell you that 3 CWs are required for some missions. I do not think more than 1 CW is "required", but I will admit that the more CWs in a group the smoother it seems to go.
Last night we ran MC, GWD, FH and VT... our group was 3 CWs, HR, DC. We absolutely destroyed everything in our path. The OPs experience as a CW does not seem to match the experiences of most other CWs in the game.
Yes, people care too much about themselves and not the team, and that is a big problem. Read my cw guide for more info there, because I truly believe in team first.
Secondly I also find gwf mind numbing to play. It is like it sucks the brains out if me. I don't find them interesting, but I know that many excellent gwfs are out there.
As for gs, I don't mention it anymore. I can do anything in cw, that's enough.
But I will admit in pvp the must fun is on my burst tr or a conq gf in defense regen gear, once you get two gwf trying to prone you cw is kite for life and beg for help. Not that I'm bad on cw... It's just class mechanics.
Everything you need to know about CW:
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?780981-Chem-s-CW-Compendium-Everything-you-need-to-know
My highest GS I believe is probably 11k? I PVP, so GS isn't as important.
I got my gwf to 60 first and immediately stopped playing him. I enjoyed the style of combat, but I just couldn't keep going with it. Melee is not for me.
I did most of my leveling in PVP. I've carried teams as my CW. To which everyone says 'below 60, etc, etc' I know. At 60, it does require a team to play as a team to do anything. Although my highest k/d ratio is 2-64... on my DC.
When I PVP with my CW, I hit hard, I do dots. Do I die? Sure, if there's more than 1. Repel is better than shield, but I also prefer a pro-active defense. Can TRs tear me up? of course. Paper, meet scissors. However, I also know that 2 CW working together can hold 5 enemies at a spot. I've seen it happen and I've done it with others.
Lets analyze this. For a cw to do this properly it usually requires another person to roam with them. If you solo roam the 1st time you come against 2 (this is in premades) you are gonna get splatted without an ally to assist. On my rogue when i play this role and i c 2 i go invis wind up duelist and BLAMO one goes down. I don't see any situation where my cw will be able to do a roll in PREMADE pvp better then all the other classes. Every other class has its specialty, a single thing that it does better then any othere class. CW was supposed to be CC and well, lets face it, GF and GWF have us beat. Prone > CC and they can tank and hold point while doing it. Cw are required to constantly move/or back off and concede points to maintain proper control. Those tanks can stand there and eat dmg holding a point and then when the encounter starts they have more CC. CW needs a roll to fit into competitive pvp.
On another note, how does tenacity benifit a CW at all? As of last time i checked (prior to the pvp armor release) the DR was Multiplitive NOT ADDITIVE! Those tank classes are going to get WAY more benefit then we are. I dont need 20 percent of my ****ty defense if its going to give 20 percent to the guys with actualy stats in it. After this patch goes thru cw will move from 2nd worst to worst in pvp. Feel free to rebuttle what i said becuase i love my cw but with the way things going TR i will come!
Im only lvl 32 GF and PvPing with CW on the other team sucks too! I mean I might get a couple steps before Im knocked , frozen, slowed slammed up and down like a rag doll! Most annoying class in game... Then couple all that control with great damage too?
I mean massive control, massive damage, and your complaining your squishy? Can't have it all man!
Overpowered 60 CW ~ Thaumaturge 14.5k
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~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
Overpowered 60 CW ~ Thaumaturge 14.5k
==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
Don't think of it in terms of CW's getting less powerful, think of it in terms of other classes getting more powerful and gaining ways to counter CW's as they get up into higher levels.
I think that you are having issues finding a group not because they don't want a CW, but because there are LOTS of CWs out there, and (no offense intended), many of those CWs have a much higher GS than you currently do. When people are forming up in the LFG or Zone chat channels they are most likely going to take the person with the highest GS, simply because they have almost no additional information on which to make their decision.
If you have not already, please join the NW_Legit_Community channel. Lots of good people there, and I have not seen any "elitism" from the members. I think you will find grouping with people on that channel MUCH more pleasant. ANd while you are there, feel free to look me up @tickdoff, if i am not otherwise engaged I will run some missions with you.