Hey do you care to explain the pros and cons of Plaguefire vs Terror? Terror is alot cheaper in the AH for the same defense reduction. Is it because plaguefire adds more dmg thru the Dots?
Last I tested this, the dot damage did not proc storm spell, however the initial application did. i.e. you hit with a magic missile and plague fire enchant, then storm spell has a chance to proc twice, once from magic missile and once from the application of the debuff.
Hey do you care to explain the pros and cons of Plaguefire vs Terror? Terror is alot cheaper in the AH for the same defense reduction. Is it because plaguefire adds more dmg thru the Dots?
Perfect Terror grants an effective damage increase of about 4% with its debuff.
Greater Plaguefire grants an effective damage increase of about 9% with its debuff (at max stacks).
Terror is very easily available from Gnarlroot Cave, while Plaguefire comes only from the Nightmare Lockboxes. While this matters much more for PvP than for PvE, Plaguefire also eats certain defensive barriers effortlessly because each tick of DoT counts as a hit (e.g. Bolstered Bark = all charges gone in a second, Shield in Mastery = fully diminished in one strike and prevented from renewing, etc.).
I didnt test it myself, but urbbs tested it out for me on preview and said it does proc weapon enchants. Would work very well with lightning i would imagine.
If you need to use 10 Encounters for filling your AP, you will only need a little less than 9 as Sun Elf. But other factor are to be taken into account.
On a boss fight, you will globally gain one Daily. It's good but not game changing.
edit >>
Question: I see that enchant like Terror or Plaguefire can remove defence by a few percent (15% & 3*15%). How is it compared to HV set that remove it by fixed number ?
I also that Terror apply damage with "every swing", is it that it have 100% proc on spell cast or did it have a lesser chance to proc ?
i disagree. if you need 10 encounters, then you still need almost 10 encounters with inner calm.
let me put it differently: in the time a non-high-elf has 100 daily powers available, you have 102. on average. in most cases both need the same amount of time, a high elf every once in a while needs one encounter/at-will power less. i do not consider this any big boost, especially since dailies are not always used when ready. of course, there could be times in which you die just because your daily was not ready, but that can also be said for bonuses a tiefling provides e.g.
in summary: you won't notice the difference. it is there, but you won't notice it. the damage gain of tieflings is probably more noticable, but also not the argument for "must-have". if you ask me, then best choices are either tiefling (slightly better than high elf IMO) or human (hard race with tiefling.... tiefling gets +2 CHA and his racial, human gets 3 bonus feats and wizards, aamof - unlike some other classes, do have good feats in their last heroic tier). high elves are very good though, too, i think having control powers ready as often as possible are not to be neglected.
in the end all those races are very valid and good choices and they differ only slightly in their overall effectiveness.
Yep, my calculation should be wrong because it's not additive.
You need your AP to be at 100% for casting a Daily.
If you gain around 10% by encounter use. A +2% gain give you 10.2% by encounter.
Instead of casting 10 encounters for 1 Daily, you will cast 9.8. It's 2 encounters equivalent every 100.
So yes, alone, this 2% aren't noticeable but coupled with Wisdom and Controlling Action, it can help.
After, I think race choice is more a question of skin and personal choice than anything.
edit >>
Question: I see that enchant like Terror or Plaguefire can remove defence by a few percent (15% & 3*15%). How is it compared to HV set that remove it by fixed number ?
I also that Terror apply damage with "every swing", is it that it have 100% proc on spell cast or did it have a lesser chance to proc ?
Terror procs 100% on every damage tick, so on CoI it procs 6 times, once for each DoT tick. It does actually stack up surprisingly well.
My Normal Terror gives a 2% damage increase on an unarmoured target, compared to a 10% increase for 1 HV stack. Perfect would give 4%.
Tele Savalas, Dwarf Thaumaturge CW
Putting the Buff into Debuff since 2013 \o/ (Does that even make sense)?
If i rely on the Eye of the Storm feat to crit, should i dump Cha and invest Wis (+crowd control, faster dailies and encounters), or Cha would still be valuable investing points into for Combat Advantage and Companion Stat Bonus?
vincent:
just before i forget - unlike most others i am not an expert NWO player, but i know my math
and your questions are quite good. yes, in a build with EotS, CHA is less valuable and WIS is more valuable than in a build without. i think that in both cases one stat beats the other and that the difference caused by EotS in the values does not 'tip the scale'.
that being said, most wizards prefer CHA. that might lie within the fact that people prefer seeing lots of damage. that might lie in experience. hard to tell.
CS is much harder to bring up than RSI, that might also be a reason. assume with end game gear you have 25% CS and 45% RSI -> 2 more points CS is more valuable than 2 points RSI (assuming that 1% more crit means 1% more damage and 1% more RSI means the same - which, in both cases, is not true)
i personally like the idea of spamming controlling encounters. they might not make a run as fast as with lots of crit, but smoother.
i hope you had a look at epic gear. while HV is the most famous one, archmage can actually provide you with all the recovery you ever need.
about crit: normally 1% more crit means 0.75% more damage. crits sometimes trigger effects (like AP generation, which helped making crit so popular) and then there is the vorpal enchantment that translates 1% crit to 1.25%. in addition, it also works with your at-will powers, while RSI has no effect on them (WIS on the other hand has almost double its effect on AP generation: a) encounters cool down faster and you gain more AP for using them).
unfortunately i can't give you a definitive answer, but i like your thinking and i think i would prefer going for WIS in your case
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ironzerg79Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,942Arc User
edited January 2014
EotS doesn't negate your need for critical strike. You won't have 100% uptime on EotS.
A quick question with vorpal, is it ok for the character sheet to not display the increase of Critical Severity ?
Or is it a bug ?
On topic : Yes, with Eye of the Storm, you can reduce the amount of crit you want. But as it's much more easier to increase crit through gear than Charisma, I suggest to put your Wis/Cha like if you don't use it and reduce your crit on gear.
On topic : Yes, with Eye of the Storm, you can reduce the amount of crit you want. But as it's much more easier to increase crit through gear than Charisma, I suggest to put your Wis/Cha like if you don't use it and reduce your crit on gear.
guess nathyiel meant to say it's easier to increase crit via charisma than via gear.
it is really hard to say. crit is good and valuable, and so is recovery. what you *can do*, however, is simply create your preferred base CW and the race you like the most (probably sun elf). while high CHA is good, high INT is even better. the CW is one of the few classes (the only one?) for which the main stat is truly quite superior over its secondary stats and with those words i'd suggest to go with 18 INT. and now you start levelling the way you like it.
once with good gear at lvl 60, go to the test server and see how your char changes with different setups. in the end you will have to decide between gaining 4% more CS or 4% more RSI with this setup.
going for less INT might not be a bad thing, but since 1 point INT gives almost the same bonuses as 1 point CHA and 1 point WIS together, 18 is the right stat for me (except for PvP, for which i have no experience though, anyway).
somehow i assumed that sun elf can get +2 WIS and +2 INT - is that my bad memory? aich...
I've been away for a while and when I came back to play this game a week ago I made a mistake by trying out Master of Flame (using the free respec) without reading anything. as I try to earn more AD to buy a respec token, any suggestion on a build that might work for MoF? should I use a slightly modified renegade or thauma feat build? any help is appreciated
On the initial posts of this topic explaining how worth is each skill and feat, there's something that isn't clear for me, so i'll quote the dubious parts:
Evocation: Increases your AoE damage by 15% at rank 3, very useful during leveling phase or solo because of its consistency and does not rely on chill or arcane stacks, or procs. However only works with some spells, Ice storm (daily), Chilling cloud (third strike), Shield, Mastery - Chill strike, Mastery - Repel, Shield, Steal time, Icy terrain and Shard of Endless Avalanche.
Wizard's Wrath: Increases your area damage by 2/4/6%
Area damage is where we excel in (over other classes). A helpful boost that will stack with another similar feat further up the tier. This now applies to all aoe spells. Works with Chilling cloud (third strike), chill strike - Mastery only, Repel - Mastery only, Shield, Conduit of Ice, Sudden storm, Shard of Endless Avalanche, Steal time and AoE dailies.
Focused Wizardry: Increases your area damage by 3/6/9%
Just like wizard's wrath this now applies to all aoe spells. Works with Chilling cloud (third strike), chill strike - Mastery only, Repel - Mastery only, Shield, Conduit of Ice, Sudden storm, Shard of Endless Avalanche, Steal time and AoE dailies.
Wizard's Wrath and Focused Wizardry are exactly alike, but Icy terrain is only under the Evocation's text, while Conduit of Ice and Sudden Storm are only under the feat's text, does that mean Evocation doesn't work on those two skills and Icy Terrain isn't affected by the feats?
And the only daily specified under Evocation is Ice Storm, this means ALL the others dailies aren't affected by it (since all dailies affect more than one target and thus they should be affected by Evocation, with exception of Ice Knife)?
Are Storm Pillar and Scorching Burst affected by Evocation, Wizard's Wrath and Focused Wizardry (since these skills can hit more than one target if they're close)?
And what about Entangling Force Mastery (since it drags more targets to the main target)?
On the initial posts of this topic explaining how worth is each skill and feat, there's something that isn't clear for me, so i'll quote the dubious parts:
Wizard's Wrath and Focused Wizardry are exactly alike, but Icy terrain is only under the Evocation's text, while Conduit of Ice and Sudden Storm are only under the feat's text, does that mean Evocation doesn't work on those two skills and Icy Terrain isn't affected by the feats?
And the only daily specified under Evocation is Ice Storm, this means ALL the others dailies aren't affected by it (since all dailies affect more than one target and thus they should be affected by Evocation, with exception of Ice Knife)?
Are Storm Pillar and Scorching Burst affected by Evocation, Wizard's Wrath and Focused Wizardry (since these skills can hit more than one target if they're close)?
And what about Entangling Force Mastery (since it drags more targets to the main target)?
I believe the Focused Wizardry tooltip is incorrect - it should state that increases your AoE spells damage when they hit a SINGLE target. Still pretty awesome for my Shard and FtF.
in nwcalc the tooltip is shown differently - the way you described it.
i have not read that it does actually only work if it hits only one target, seems many of the more experienced players assume it to work as stated. if you and nwcalc should be right - in that case i need to respec and complain with NWO :P (i don't care much about single target, i want to be strong against masses)
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jeffmwillsonMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 116Arc User
I believe the Focused Wizardry tooltip is incorrect - it should state that increases your AoE spells damage when they hit a SINGLE target. Still pretty awesome for my Shard and FtF.
This is a big misunderstanding by many. Focused Wizardry used to be - increases your AoE spells dmg when they hit a SINGLE target. as I said.. USED TO BE. This was long long ago. it has been changed since then and even highlighted as being changed in patch noted provided by Cryptic Devs. the tooltip in the online nwclac stat calculator has not been updated... if you were playing before the update.. you would of seen it in patch notes.. and understand that the info provided in this thread about it is in fact correct. I see zargorious666, your join date is dec 2013.... so you were not here for the change.. and not around to see the patch notes reflecting this change.. Focused Wizardry has the same effect as wizards wrath, but possibly due to the way the coding was when this changed.. they both do effect different encounters... if that makes sense...
This is a big misunderstanding by many. Focused Wizardry used to be - increases your AoE spells dmg when they hit a SINGLE target. as I said.. USED TO BE. This was long long ago. it has been changed since then and even highlighted as being changed in patch noted provided by Cryptic Devs. the tooltip in the online nwclac stat calculator has not been updated... if you were playing before the update.. you would of seen it in patch notes.. and understand that the info provided in this thread about it is in fact correct. I see zargorious666, your join date is dec 2013.... so you were not here for the change.. and not around to see the patch notes reflecting this change.. Focused Wizardry has the same effect as wizards wrath, but possibly due to the way the coding was when this changed.. they both do effect different encounters... if that makes sense...
That's good to hear as it actually makes it more valuable but...id doesn't really make much sense to have two feats that do exact the same thing I think..Anyway, you're stating they affect different encounters : can you point me to a list?
But the Grimah's guide list the same spell for both. Can it be rectified then ?
It's the same for Wizard's Wrath and Focused Wizardry, but it's slightly different for Evocation (Evocation only list Ice Storm from the daily ones, doesn't list Conduit of Ice and Sudden Storm, while the two feats don't list Icy Terrain). That's why i'm with doubts, i don't know if i get to use let's say Sudden Storm if this will be affected by Evocation, or if i get to use Icy Terrain if this will be affected by Wizard's Wrath and Focused Wizardry.
And i don't know about Scorching Burst and Storm Pillar, both can hit more than one target if they're close, isn't? If this is it, so both would be affected by Evocation and the feats, right?
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jeffmwillsonMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 116Arc User
nethreldras has done some testing and is posted on copticones guide. there are a lot of pages in that post. but this link brings you to the heart of nethreldras tests.
Comments
Last I tested this, the dot damage did not proc storm spell, however the initial application did. i.e. you hit with a magic missile and plague fire enchant, then storm spell has a chance to proc twice, once from magic missile and once from the application of the debuff.
Perfect Terror grants an effective damage increase of about 4% with its debuff.
Greater Plaguefire grants an effective damage increase of about 9% with its debuff (at max stacks).
Terror is very easily available from Gnarlroot Cave, while Plaguefire comes only from the Nightmare Lockboxes. While this matters much more for PvP than for PvE, Plaguefire also eats certain defensive barriers effortlessly because each tick of DoT counts as a hit (e.g. Bolstered Bark = all charges gone in a second, Shield in Mastery = fully diminished in one strike and prevented from renewing, etc.).
Contagion - Cleric
Testament - Wizard
Pestilence - Ranger
Dominion - Paladin
NIGHTSWATCH
and also the featured satirical comedic adventure "A Call for Heroes".
How much useful is Inner Calm (racial of High/Sun Elves) for AP gain?
It says +2%, but in practice how good is that?
Is it much faster than other race or you barely see the difference?
On a boss fight, you will globally gain one Daily. It's good but not game changing.
edit >>
Question: I see that enchant like Terror or Plaguefire can remove defence by a few percent (15% & 3*15%). How is it compared to HV set that remove it by fixed number ?
I also that Terror apply damage with "every swing", is it that it have 100% proc on spell cast or did it have a lesser chance to proc ?
let me put it differently: in the time a non-high-elf has 100 daily powers available, you have 102. on average. in most cases both need the same amount of time, a high elf every once in a while needs one encounter/at-will power less. i do not consider this any big boost, especially since dailies are not always used when ready. of course, there could be times in which you die just because your daily was not ready, but that can also be said for bonuses a tiefling provides e.g.
in summary: you won't notice the difference. it is there, but you won't notice it. the damage gain of tieflings is probably more noticable, but also not the argument for "must-have". if you ask me, then best choices are either tiefling (slightly better than high elf IMO) or human (hard race with tiefling.... tiefling gets +2 CHA and his racial, human gets 3 bonus feats and wizards, aamof - unlike some other classes, do have good feats in their last heroic tier). high elves are very good though, too, i think having control powers ready as often as possible are not to be neglected.
in the end all those races are very valid and good choices and they differ only slightly in their overall effectiveness.
You need your AP to be at 100% for casting a Daily.
If you gain around 10% by encounter use. A +2% gain give you 10.2% by encounter.
Instead of casting 10 encounters for 1 Daily, you will cast 9.8. It's 2 encounters equivalent every 100.
So yes, alone, this 2% aren't noticeable but coupled with Wisdom and Controlling Action, it can help.
After, I think race choice is more a question of skin and personal choice than anything.
Terror procs 100% on every damage tick, so on CoI it procs 6 times, once for each DoT tick. It does actually stack up surprisingly well.
My Normal Terror gives a 2% damage increase on an unarmoured target, compared to a 10% increase for 1 HV stack. Perfect would give 4%.
And another question if you don't mind:
If i rely on the Eye of the Storm feat to crit, should i dump Cha and invest Wis (+crowd control, faster dailies and encounters), or Cha would still be valuable investing points into for Combat Advantage and Companion Stat Bonus?
just before i forget - unlike most others i am not an expert NWO player, but i know my math
and your questions are quite good. yes, in a build with EotS, CHA is less valuable and WIS is more valuable than in a build without. i think that in both cases one stat beats the other and that the difference caused by EotS in the values does not 'tip the scale'.
that being said, most wizards prefer CHA. that might lie within the fact that people prefer seeing lots of damage. that might lie in experience. hard to tell.
CS is much harder to bring up than RSI, that might also be a reason. assume with end game gear you have 25% CS and 45% RSI -> 2 more points CS is more valuable than 2 points RSI (assuming that 1% more crit means 1% more damage and 1% more RSI means the same - which, in both cases, is not true)
i personally like the idea of spamming controlling encounters. they might not make a run as fast as with lots of crit, but smoother.
i hope you had a look at epic gear. while HV is the most famous one, archmage can actually provide you with all the recovery you ever need.
about crit: normally 1% more crit means 0.75% more damage. crits sometimes trigger effects (like AP generation, which helped making crit so popular) and then there is the vorpal enchantment that translates 1% crit to 1.25%. in addition, it also works with your at-will powers, while RSI has no effect on them (WIS on the other hand has almost double its effect on AP generation: a) encounters cool down faster and you gain more AP for using them).
unfortunately i can't give you a definitive answer, but i like your thinking and i think i would prefer going for WIS in your case
Or is it a bug ?
On topic : Yes, with Eye of the Storm, you can reduce the amount of crit you want. But as it's much more easier to increase crit through gear than Charisma, I suggest to put your Wis/Cha like if you don't use it and reduce your crit on gear.
Doesn't show on character sheet but it does work.
guess nathyiel meant to say it's easier to increase crit via charisma than via gear.
it is really hard to say. crit is good and valuable, and so is recovery. what you *can do*, however, is simply create your preferred base CW and the race you like the most (probably sun elf). while high CHA is good, high INT is even better. the CW is one of the few classes (the only one?) for which the main stat is truly quite superior over its secondary stats and with those words i'd suggest to go with 18 INT. and now you start levelling the way you like it.
once with good gear at lvl 60, go to the test server and see how your char changes with different setups. in the end you will have to decide between gaining 4% more CS or 4% more RSI with this setup.
going for less INT might not be a bad thing, but since 1 point INT gives almost the same bonuses as 1 point CHA and 1 point WIS together, 18 is the right stat for me (except for PvP, for which i have no experience though, anyway).
somehow i assumed that sun elf can get +2 WIS and +2 INT - is that my bad memory? aich...
Nothing new here :
At-Will : Chilling Cloud
Mastery : CoI
Encounter : Shard, Fanning the Flame/Slow Time and Chill Strike/Icy terrain
Daily : Singularity + Furious Immolation/Ice Knife
Feat : Chilling Presence & Critical Conflagration
How to play :
Smolder is put by Crit (CC and Shard)
FtF is fun and very good on boss with add around
Icy Terrain/Slow Time for more control option
Bad point : self centred AOE (Icy terrain/Slow time) and no burst.
Good point : very good for kitting, good control and a lot of proc with smolder.
I have one more doubt if you don't mind lol
On the initial posts of this topic explaining how worth is each skill and feat, there's something that isn't clear for me, so i'll quote the dubious parts:
Wizard's Wrath and Focused Wizardry are exactly alike, but Icy terrain is only under the Evocation's text, while Conduit of Ice and Sudden Storm are only under the feat's text, does that mean Evocation doesn't work on those two skills and Icy Terrain isn't affected by the feats?
And the only daily specified under Evocation is Ice Storm, this means ALL the others dailies aren't affected by it (since all dailies affect more than one target and thus they should be affected by Evocation, with exception of Ice Knife)?
Are Storm Pillar and Scorching Burst affected by Evocation, Wizard's Wrath and Focused Wizardry (since these skills can hit more than one target if they're close)?
And what about Entangling Force Mastery (since it drags more targets to the main target)?
I believe the Focused Wizardry tooltip is incorrect - it should state that increases your AoE spells damage when they hit a SINGLE target. Still pretty awesome for my Shard and FtF.
i have not read that it does actually only work if it hits only one target, seems many of the more experienced players assume it to work as stated. if you and nwcalc should be right - in that case i need to respec and complain with NWO :P (i don't care much about single target, i want to be strong against masses)
This is a big misunderstanding by many. Focused Wizardry used to be - increases your AoE spells dmg when they hit a SINGLE target. as I said.. USED TO BE. This was long long ago. it has been changed since then and even highlighted as being changed in patch noted provided by Cryptic Devs. the tooltip in the online nwclac stat calculator has not been updated... if you were playing before the update.. you would of seen it in patch notes.. and understand that the info provided in this thread about it is in fact correct. I see zargorious666, your join date is dec 2013.... so you were not here for the change.. and not around to see the patch notes reflecting this change.. Focused Wizardry has the same effect as wizards wrath, but possibly due to the way the coding was when this changed.. they both do effect different encounters... if that makes sense...
Since it's dependent on crits, does that mean that the smolder damage will also result in a crit?
I don't think as Smolder's crit is independent of the spell that generate it.
What is sure his that if the 1st tick is a crick then all other will crit too.
That's why Crit Severity is so good as MoF.
That's good to hear as it actually makes it more valuable but...id doesn't really make much sense to have two feats that do exact the same thing I think..Anyway, you're stating they affect different encounters : can you point me to a list?
It's the same for Wizard's Wrath and Focused Wizardry, but it's slightly different for Evocation (Evocation only list Ice Storm from the daily ones, doesn't list Conduit of Ice and Sudden Storm, while the two feats don't list Icy Terrain). That's why i'm with doubts, i don't know if i get to use let's say Sudden Storm if this will be affected by Evocation, or if i get to use Icy Terrain if this will be affected by Wizard's Wrath and Focused Wizardry.
And i don't know about Scorching Burst and Storm Pillar, both can hit more than one target if they're close, isn't? If this is it, so both would be affected by Evocation and the feats, right?
nethreldras has done some testing and is posted on copticones guide. there are a lot of pages in that post. but this link brings you to the heart of nethreldras tests.