P.S. luruj, I don't see how you're going to get a 7 second CD on CoI, much less a 10 second base CD before Champion bonus. The diminishing return on Recovery is too severe to reasonably facilitate that.
My alt CW, who admittedly doesn't get a lot of love from me in the gear department, has 2400 Recovery with the Champion's Set. Her CoI goes from 12.7 to 10.4 if placed in the Mastery Slot.
By comparison, my main CW with his artifact-inflated 3600 Recovery has a 12 second CD on CoI. As you can see, you're not getting a 7 second CD on CoI pretty much no matter what you do :P
Edit: The point being that the Champion bonus is good, but not as obviously effective as it looks on paper. I don't see it beating out HV in any way.
lurujMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 19Arc User
edited January 2014
Thats why i wrote "Theoretical". Just scale it to 12s for harder calculations. Effect is exactly the same - 47% more DMG from tab.
PS: Funny thing about being CC. You push shard, hand on draco hits you, you loose 80% of HP, shard explode and you get back on ground with almost full HP ;p
PS1: Yea CM dont work like strict 30% CD reduction because of ~40%+ from Reco but still it gives you big DMG boost.
Set. I agree that HV is best for party DMG output. But for your DPS Champion Mag is best.
Some theoretical math:
HV set - Conduit CD on tab - 10s. You can cast it 70 times during 700s.
CM set - Conduit CD on tab - 7s. You can cast it 100 times during 700s.
thats not how recharge speed bonus works. the set doesnt give you flat reduction, formula is in my guide somewhere (last post/section)
What is your final (or current lol) verdict on companions?
Ioun Stone, wild hunt rider, fire archon, galeb duhr, blink dog are what I use.
Cat instead of stone is okay, and blink dog I would substitute in a heartbeat for vicious dire wolf, if I had it. Some people seem to be against galeb duhr as well, but I normally get hit a lot and this is a really big bonus companion. Even if you have average 90% life, you will do more damage than a blink dog or dancing blade with it.
I would dissagree with few things. This is only my opinion and i dont want to criticize anyone.
Stats - almost perfect but i prefer Life Steal + Defense over Regeneration (Ancient Cleaving etc.). With 1k+ Life Steal you heal yourself for full HP with every shard. Not mentioning other skills. Regeneration is just waste in my opinion. You can easy do every dungeon with 5 CW if everyone have 1k+ Life Steal. But you get it from HV set so nothing really to change here.
Heroic feats - perfect, but i put one more point in Fight On than in Toughness.
Feats - I prefer Frozen Power Transfer over Snap Freeze. You sometimes have time to cast it. And with my skill rotation it will not work so good.
Companions - Galeb Duhr is expensive and thanks to Life Steal you have full HP almost all the time. Slyblade Kobold seems to be good choice because Steel Time stun their targets.
Skill rotation.
Using Chill Strike is complete waste.
I use CoI(tab) -> Steel Time -> Put shard on the ground -> Sudden Storm -> Push shard
Conduit gives you debuff and apply chills. Steel Time gives you Defense Reduction(feat), activate EoTS, Wild Hunt, Slyblade Kobold. Then crits from sudden storm and shard are immense. Here also sudden storm casted on mobs in singu work on all of them and do much more dmg than chill strike will ever do. Actually sudden storm can crit for much more than shard(20k+ i would say).
For best possible DPS use the same combination but with Sudden Storm on tab. This will give you chain effect and more dmg.
When you are low on CW (1-2) CoI works perfect with Icy Terrain. Freeze all the time ;p
Set. I agree that HV is best for party DMG output. But for your DPS Champion Mag is best.
Some theoretical math:
HV set - Conduit CD on tab - 10s. You can cast it 70 times during 700s.
CM set - Conduit CD on tab - 7s. You can cast it 100 times during 700s.
This mean that your power on tab will do 42%+5% more DMG in CM set than in HV set (i know, HV debuff but it is hard to calculate). Let assume you do 8kk DMG from CoI. This mean about 3.2kk more dmg.
In any case i think that most important thing on CW is timing.
Just test Champion Mage set and my skill rotation and tell me how you feel about this. If you have time and willingness of course ;p
As for stats, HP becomes a more effective stat for a CW over defense at less than 900 defense. And while it is easier to heal less life with pots or from a cleric, you have to remember that the extra life also makes your regen tick for more. I actually used to run and be a proponent of life steal, in fact when it used to be all shields (bugged with no recast) and sings for damage, I ran a lot of life steal. Then back in june or july I started doing my own testing rather than just trusting what people said, and found that I liked having power. Before that I ran with actually less than 3k power I believe, but I made a spreadsheet which I have adapted over time that will actually compute how much each point of power will add to my damage through a dungeon. Obviously life steal would add to my survivability, but as it is I don't have issues with survival so for me it is not needed. I run dungeons without DCs all the time, and 90% of the time all the mobs are on me making it difficult, yet still I live.
Heroic feats, sorry the benefit you get from one more point in fight on is minimal, the benefit I gain from that extra hp has made the difference between me being dead and not more times than I can count. If you want more damage, slightly more, then yes go for it.
Feats: here's the thing, I've looked countless times with different builds at these 2. Because I run chill strike on tab it simply comes down to me getting more damage from this than I get because of FPT. I used to run FPT when it was bugged of course because it was amazing, but testing right after that nerf I switched out of it. If I did not use chill strike, and instead used sudden storm then yes I would use FPT.
Skill rotation:
To me, CoI on tab is the waste. I will admit I have been playing around with sudden storm more with CoI on tab, but honestly I just don't see the damage increase. Unless you are actually fighting huge packs like doing entire areas in VT or actually running through huge sections of CN, I just get more damage with the rotation I have. The thing with sudden storm is positioning. The rotation you have, let's say you cast coi > steal time (how close did you get and how much time did you waste getting this close to the mobs?) > sudden storm, let me just stop there. Here's what my build would have done, coi > chill strike on tab > shard, I would likely hit with shard before you got sudden storm off because I didn't have to be as close as you and put myself in danger.
As for set, as others have mentioned, this doesn't work like you think. I have every set for CW except the new one from VT, and I know I have the currency, I've just been too lazy to buy and test it properly. HV is just great because of the party benefit. Imo the second best set for damage is T1 archmage. But with archmage, and I would say this would be the case with GG set is that you should not be the first into combat, you will be better served being second or third and waiting for your teammates to debuff. The problem I have with that is the waiting, if I'm not dpsing then I'm not happy. With the archmage, I can get a far shorter cooldown for my chillstrike on tab than archmage would ever give me. I.e. I could cast chill strike > steal time > and already I could chill strike again. Here's a pro tip as well, if you cancel steal time by shifting out of it, you still get the seconds reduction off the skills. So let's say I'm using storm spell and archmage and chill strike with steal time. I cast chill strike, wait for 5 slow ticks that all take 1 second off my steal time recast and have a chance to proc storm spell on every target, when I shift the steal time recast becomes 4 seconds, so likely by the time I cast another chill strike or maybe a coi or shard, whatever I'm using, I will already be able to repeat this.
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lurujMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 19Arc User
thats not how recharge speed bonus works. the set doesnt give you flat reduction, formula is in my guide somewhere (last post/section)
Yea i know (with 76% of flate recharge speed on tab CoI will have less than 5s cooldown), but i never bother for finding exactly formula so thanks for link. This example was just to show how much you can benefit from 3s less cooldown from power on Tab. Actually in my case, CoI on tab has 2.1s less CD (9.9s-12s). This give me 21%+5% more DMG. With more base recharge speed this bonus becomes less effective.
Skill rotation:
To me, CoI on tab is the waste. I will admit I have been playing around with sudden storm more with CoI on tab, but honestly I just don't see the damage increase. Unless you are actually fighting huge packs like doing entire areas in VT or actually running through huge sections of CN, I just get more damage with the rotation I have. The thing with sudden storm is positioning. The rotation you have, let's say you cast coi > steal time (how close did you get and how much time did you waste getting this close to the mobs?) > sudden storm, let me just stop there. Here's what my build would have done, coi > chill strike on tab > shard, I would likely hit with shard before you got sudden storm off because I didn't have to be as close as you and put myself in danger.
As for set, as others have mentioned, this doesn't work like you think. I have every set for CW except the new one from VT, and I know I have the currency, I've just been too lazy to buy and test it properly. HV is just great because of the party benefit. Imo the second best set for damage is T1 archmage. But with archmage, and I would say this would be the case with GG set is that you should not be the first into combat, you will be better served being second or third and waiting for your teammates to debuff. The problem I have with that is the waiting, if I'm not dpsing then I'm not happy. With the archmage, I can get a far shorter cooldown for my chillstrike on tab than archmage would ever give me. I.e. I could cast chill strike > steal time > and already I could chill strike again. Here's a pro tip as well, if you cancel steal time by shifting out of it, you still get the seconds reduction off the skills. So let's say I'm using storm spell and archmage and chill strike with steal time. I cast chill strike, wait for 5 slow ticks that all take 1 second off my steal time recast and have a chance to proc storm spell on every target, when I shift the steal time recast becomes 4 seconds, so likely by the time I cast another chill strike or maybe a coi or shard, whatever I'm using, I will already be able to repeat this.
I can agree that this work better for fighting in distance.
But usually we do something like this:
Run through 3-4 spots of mobs. Casting some skills during run (Life Steal so you can run to the destination point with full hp). Then someone use Singu (again self healing) and then goes rotation CoI->Steel Time->Shard on ground->Sudden storm->Push shard. Sometimes there is nothing to hit with shard if you have more than 3 CW. In this combination there is no place for low damage skills like Chill Strike. Sudden Storm works on mobs in Singu if you are close enough and know when to use it.
And even if you are alone and have 10% life steal and you cast Sudden Storm for 30k each hit, this can keep you alive more than Regeneration ever will be. Regen and HP is good for pvp but when it comes to fighiting with many mobs Defense + Life Steal is life saver in my opinion. I dont see how Regeneration will heal you from 10% HP to full HP in short time. Also casting critical Opressive Force on huge pack of mobs mean 'God mode' for short time ;p
But those discussion are futile since people already farm only last boss on CN + DC High Prophet bugged set. One CN = 15min(13min run + 2min draco). No need for huge pack killers.
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pers3phoneBanned Users, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Sudden Storm works on mobs in Singu if you are close enough and know when to use it.
But those discussion are futile since people already farm only last boss on CN... No need for huge pack killers.
SS doesn't hit anything in sing, it hits after sing is over. Yup you can cast it "in advance", since the spell has a "travel time" to the mob pack. Also true that if 3 CWs use it properly, and if mobs are Steal Timed inside the sing, there will be no need for shard any longer basically, since it hits like a truck. BTW this is also how I use SS as you described, Shard down, sing almost over, SS, push shard. SS first because SS explosion spreads mobs which is obviously bad. Also worth noticing is that the probability for SS to crit after CoI+Steal Time is HUGE. These spells also trigger Wild Hunt most of the times if you have companion, so all in all it's a very good combo. Only issue is when there are many red zones and you can't perform flawless combos :P
As for Draco, SS is still extremely good, because it clears mobs fast. I've ran CN with low DPS groups and we got swamped with mobs, so you need enough damage to clear them fast. Many CWs replace it with Icy Terrain for Draco, but not all of them should do this, one or 2 are more than enough, the rest should keep SS to clear out ads faster.
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lurujMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 19Arc User
SS doesn't hit anything in sing, it hits after sing is over. Yup you can cast it "in advance", since the spell has a "travel time" to the mob pack.
I also used this that way, but if someone goes faster with shard there will be nothing to hit (mobs will be scaterred in large radius). So just stick very close to singu, use SS just after it ends, and push Shard. There is a short time gap when you can hit them with SS and not yet with shard. In this case you can almost always hit them with SS and shard. As i said before it is all about timing.
As for Draco, SS is still extremely good, because it clears mobs fast. I've ran CN with low DPS groups and we got swamped with mobs, so you need enough damage to clear them fast. Many CWs replace it with Icy Terrain for Draco, but not all of them should do this, one or 2 are more than enough, the rest should keep SS to clear out ads faster.
For a purely single target fight, like MC 3/3, what would your rotation/slots be? Slots, I'm thinking Icy Rays (tab)/RoE/CoI/Chill + MM + EotS/Chilling Presence.
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jeffmwillsonMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 116Arc User
edited January 2014
Curious as to snap freeze.. Now im not 100% sure, but this is my understanding based on other posts. When you apply chill. the chill is applied then the damage is calculated.. Ive read a post that states with chill strike, it always gets 5% bonus from bitter cold because of this. use it. it adds chill.. then calculated dmg.. adding 5% bonus to dmg monster with chill.. but.. with snap freeze.. would it ever give the 15% bonus? because it has to hit a monster that does not have chill... but.. it adds chill... so.. doesn't the game mechanics work that it would give the 5% for bitter cold.. but not the 15% for snap freeze.. because of what I explained? Just looking for some clarification on this..
Curious as to snap freeze.. Now im not 100% sure, but this is my understanding based on other posts. When you apply chill. the chill is applied then the damage is calculated.. Ive read a post that states with chill strike, it always gets 5% bonus from bitter cold because of this. use it. it adds chill.. then calculated dmg.. adding 5% bonus to dmg monster with chill.. but.. with snap freeze.. would it ever give the 15% bonus? because it has to hit a monster that does not have chill... but.. it adds chill... so.. doesn't the game mechanics work that it would give the 5% for bitter cold.. but not the 15% for snap freeze.. because of what I explained? Just looking for some clarification on this..
I think where a lot of people get confused by snap freeze is in the log it doesn't show <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> (<font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>) damage, it buffs the <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> base damage. Just go to preview shard and you will see this easily. Respec so you only have for instance tempest, run some numbers with a low damage variation orb (cracked orb) then spec into snap freeze and see the difference. Yes it works.
Stox - Thank you for the time with this guide - Urs and Grimahs I am all over it.
Here is where I hopefully don't lose you. I am a new player - maybe 2 weeks - Don't quote me on that and just flying with leveling level 51 almost 52 - Levels too quick...CW knowledge slow
I can't seem to wrap my head around this play style - I keep thinking long cast stay out of harms way but based on the guides I read and have tried Grimahs today - well what i could - and most of my instances I am always in the Thick of it.
Am I really going to be that close to mobs through out this game? And we really have time to switch out our powers - hell I was doing storming the gates or what ever...tried to switch out before the very last boss - And was like o.O - Had to use my aoe set up lol
Just so I understand and say ok learn how to play this way - I would appreciate some guidance.
Btw love you pvp guide as well bought the tailsman you recommended.
And my opinion on this is guide is - it works for you and will work for others - appreciate your time putting it out there.
End of the day comes down to players knowledge base and what play style works best for them and hopefully their group lol
Stox - Thank you for the time with this guide - Urs and Grimahs I am all over it.
Here is where I hopefully don't lose you. I am a new player - maybe 2 weeks - Don't quote me on that and just flying with leveling level 51 almost 52 - Levels too quick...CW knowledge slow
I can't seem to wrap my head around this play style - I keep thinking long cast stay out of harms way but based on the guides I read and have tried Grimahs today - well what i could - and most of my instances I am always in the Thick of it.
Am I really going to be that close to mobs through out this game? And we really have time to switch out our powers - hell I was doing storming the gates or what ever...tried to switch out before the very last boss - And was like o.O - Had to use my aoe set up lol
Just so I understand and say ok learn how to play this way - I would appreciate some guidance.
Btw love you pvp guide as well bought the tailsman you recommended.
And my opinion on this is guide is - it works for you and will work for others - appreciate your time putting it out there.
End of the day comes down to players knowledge base and what play style works best for them and hopefully their group lol
Here's the thing, no guide is set in stone. In most of the end game dungeons you will have plenty of time to change from AoE to single target because there will be a campfire and a door before you get to the boss.
One of the big difference in Grimah's guide and mine is that mine will use more skills from a safe distance before getting in close to enemies, but yes there will be enemies all the time around you, so get used to that.
My rotation listed is really just for normal pulls, it is what I know to be the most DPS on average sized pulls (single packs) which is what most people do early on. Or for instance in malabog castle this is the typical way most groups pull. For CN however, there is normally a lot of running past mobs, pulling large groups of 50-80 at a time or more (depending on the group) and I would be an idiot not to be using sudden storm or icy terrain in these kinds of groups if I was truly going for the most dps, since those 2 skills have no mob caps. It's the same for VT, normally if we have a sentinel he will pull everything before the first door, and again everything after the first boss. These are huge pulls, not recommended for most players, but if I really wanted to do the most damage during them, I'd certainly have sudden storm and icy terrain in. So guys, take these guides with a grain of salt, we're not sticklers to the skills or rotations, any good CW will be changing skills all the time depending on party setup and play style.
Love the guide, very similar to the thaum build I've been using since the game came out.
I noticed that in your recent update to your powers, you no longer have Storm Spell. I'm aware that for this setup, Evocation is much better for AOE, because we're not using skills with no mob cap, like Sudden Storm or Icy Terrain. However, my question is about single target. Assuming that you use the standard single target encounter setup (Icy Rays in Mastery, RoE, Conduit, and Chill Strike), do you really see a significant damage increase slotting Chilling Presence over Storm Spell?
I guess I'm just a little confused, because we don't have Frozen Power Transfer, meaning that we're using Magic Missile on single target and not Chilling Cloud (I'm assuming the reason you are even specced into Chilling Cloud is just as a filler for trash pulls with multiple mobs?). It seems to me that our chill stacks from Icy Rays and Chill Strike would fall off on a single target fight, or even if they do fall off, is the net damage greater than Storm Spell when the stacks are reapplied?
Also what did you put on your stone? I'm guessing smiting blue stuff for the extra power and the the devoted's talisman from artificing, also for power
Also what did you put on your stone? I'm guessing smiting blue stuff for the extra power and the the devoted's talisman from artificing, also for power
ancient excorcist's necklace of blessings, pyrotechnic band, the DC offhand from VT. The runes are 2 for power and eldritch in defense slots.
I think where a lot of people get confused by snap freeze is in the log it doesn't show <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> (<font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>) damage, it buffs the <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> base damage. Just go to preview shard and you will see this easily. Respec so you only have for instance tempest, run some numbers with a low damage variation orb (cracked orb) then spec into snap freeze and see the difference. Yes it works.
Before module 2, I didn't pay much attention to the effectiveness of Snap Freeze. After my tests on some powers after module 2, I surprisingly found that Snap Freeze (probably) doesn't work as I expected.
Its description says:
Your Cold based At-Will and Encounter powers deal an additional 3/6/9/12/15% damage to targets who are not affected by Chill
I thought whether mobs are "affected by Chill" or not is determined after they being hit and not include the first time they are hit. But after some tests with Chill Strike in the spell mastery slot, I found that the damage to the main target is always obviously lower than secondary targets. That means when Chill Strike hit the main target and applies Chill on it, it is already considered "affected by Chill" so it doesn't receive additional damage like secondary targets do.
If that's true, then Snap Freeze only works for the following powers:
Chilling Cloud (first two hits in the first round) Completely works for these hits
Chill Strike (spell mastery, to secondary targets only) This is actually the case, the primary target does not seem to benefit but I suspect this is a different bug
Conduit of Ice (regular) 100% works for every hit of this
And it doesn't work for the following powers:
Ray of Frost Completely works for the first hit
Chilling Cloud (the third hit and all subsequent hits) Completely works for the entire first 3 hit combo, until chill is applied
Chill Strike (regular) Completely works for this
Conduit of Ice (spell mastery) Works for the first tick only
Icy Terrain (regular and spell mastery) Works for the first tick only
Icy Rays (regular and spell mastery) Completely works for this
Ice Storm (Snap Freeze doesn't work for daily powers) As he says, doesn't say it works with dailies
Ice Knife (Snap Freeze doesn't work for daily powers) As he says, doesn't say it works with dailies
Is that unfortunately a truth (and a bug)? Or am I misunderstanding something?
My comments on his "test" are in red.
So here's how to do a proper test, get a level 1 cracked orb so the damage numbers are low. Go to the test shard, respec, leave class features off. Record tooltip damage before and after you spec into snap freeze and damage numbers from before and after. It's not rocket science, in some cases the tooltip damage is even changed, in others it is not but the damage increase is obviously there.
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jeffmwillsonMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 116Arc User
edited January 2014
Thanks Stox -- another great thing I noticed too.. draco doesn't get chill stacks.. so snap freeze on him is 100%
I am using this build and it is great. I do not know, however, what stats should i go for while gearing? What are the caps? I am 9k+ gs atm.
LE: i also am wondering what at wills to use.
The main thing is to get your armor pen up, at least to 1900-2000 range. Everything else will just come, such as recovery I have none slotted, same with crit. So basically arm pen and then power stack.
I have a question not related to the build, but what is the skin for the armor you have in the op pictures?
That's my 80s rocker outfit! Illithid robes of domination which come from boss 2 in Dread Vault. However, you can get illithid robes of dominion which is a blue item for just a couple hundred AD and it's the same look.
Comments
My alt CW, who admittedly doesn't get a lot of love from me in the gear department, has 2400 Recovery with the Champion's Set. Her CoI goes from 12.7 to 10.4 if placed in the Mastery Slot.
By comparison, my main CW with his artifact-inflated 3600 Recovery has a 12 second CD on CoI. As you can see, you're not getting a 7 second CD on CoI pretty much no matter what you do :P
Edit: The point being that the Champion bonus is good, but not as obviously effective as it looks on paper. I don't see it beating out HV in any way.
Contagion - Cleric
Testament - Wizard
Pestilence - Ranger
Dominion - Paladin
NIGHTSWATCH
PS: Funny thing about being CC. You push shard, hand on draco hits you, you loose 80% of HP, shard explode and you get back on ground with almost full HP ;p
PS1: Yea CM dont work like strict 30% CD reduction because of ~40%+ from Reco but still it gives you big DMG boost.
thats not how recharge speed bonus works. the set doesnt give you flat reduction, formula is in my guide somewhere (last post/section)
and also the featured satirical comedic adventure "A Call for Heroes".
Ioun Stone, wild hunt rider, fire archon, galeb duhr, blink dog are what I use.
Cat instead of stone is okay, and blink dog I would substitute in a heartbeat for vicious dire wolf, if I had it. Some people seem to be against galeb duhr as well, but I normally get hit a lot and this is a really big bonus companion. Even if you have average 90% life, you will do more damage than a blink dog or dancing blade with it.
As for stats, HP becomes a more effective stat for a CW over defense at less than 900 defense. And while it is easier to heal less life with pots or from a cleric, you have to remember that the extra life also makes your regen tick for more. I actually used to run and be a proponent of life steal, in fact when it used to be all shields (bugged with no recast) and sings for damage, I ran a lot of life steal. Then back in june or july I started doing my own testing rather than just trusting what people said, and found that I liked having power. Before that I ran with actually less than 3k power I believe, but I made a spreadsheet which I have adapted over time that will actually compute how much each point of power will add to my damage through a dungeon. Obviously life steal would add to my survivability, but as it is I don't have issues with survival so for me it is not needed. I run dungeons without DCs all the time, and 90% of the time all the mobs are on me making it difficult, yet still I live.
Heroic feats, sorry the benefit you get from one more point in fight on is minimal, the benefit I gain from that extra hp has made the difference between me being dead and not more times than I can count. If you want more damage, slightly more, then yes go for it.
Feats: here's the thing, I've looked countless times with different builds at these 2. Because I run chill strike on tab it simply comes down to me getting more damage from this than I get because of FPT. I used to run FPT when it was bugged of course because it was amazing, but testing right after that nerf I switched out of it. If I did not use chill strike, and instead used sudden storm then yes I would use FPT.
Skill rotation:
To me, CoI on tab is the waste. I will admit I have been playing around with sudden storm more with CoI on tab, but honestly I just don't see the damage increase. Unless you are actually fighting huge packs like doing entire areas in VT or actually running through huge sections of CN, I just get more damage with the rotation I have. The thing with sudden storm is positioning. The rotation you have, let's say you cast coi > steal time (how close did you get and how much time did you waste getting this close to the mobs?) > sudden storm, let me just stop there. Here's what my build would have done, coi > chill strike on tab > shard, I would likely hit with shard before you got sudden storm off because I didn't have to be as close as you and put myself in danger.
As for set, as others have mentioned, this doesn't work like you think. I have every set for CW except the new one from VT, and I know I have the currency, I've just been too lazy to buy and test it properly. HV is just great because of the party benefit. Imo the second best set for damage is T1 archmage. But with archmage, and I would say this would be the case with GG set is that you should not be the first into combat, you will be better served being second or third and waiting for your teammates to debuff. The problem I have with that is the waiting, if I'm not dpsing then I'm not happy. With the archmage, I can get a far shorter cooldown for my chillstrike on tab than archmage would ever give me. I.e. I could cast chill strike > steal time > and already I could chill strike again. Here's a pro tip as well, if you cancel steal time by shifting out of it, you still get the seconds reduction off the skills. So let's say I'm using storm spell and archmage and chill strike with steal time. I cast chill strike, wait for 5 slow ticks that all take 1 second off my steal time recast and have a chance to proc storm spell on every target, when I shift the steal time recast becomes 4 seconds, so likely by the time I cast another chill strike or maybe a coi or shard, whatever I'm using, I will already be able to repeat this.
I can agree that this work better for fighting in distance.
But usually we do something like this:
Run through 3-4 spots of mobs. Casting some skills during run (Life Steal so you can run to the destination point with full hp). Then someone use Singu (again self healing) and then goes rotation CoI->Steel Time->Shard on ground->Sudden storm->Push shard. Sometimes there is nothing to hit with shard if you have more than 3 CW. In this combination there is no place for low damage skills like Chill Strike. Sudden Storm works on mobs in Singu if you are close enough and know when to use it.
And even if you are alone and have 10% life steal and you cast Sudden Storm for 30k each hit, this can keep you alive more than Regeneration ever will be. Regen and HP is good for pvp but when it comes to fighiting with many mobs Defense + Life Steal is life saver in my opinion. I dont see how Regeneration will heal you from 10% HP to full HP in short time. Also casting critical Opressive Force on huge pack of mobs mean 'God mode' for short time ;p
But those discussion are futile since people already farm only last boss on CN + DC High Prophet bugged set. One CN = 15min(13min run + 2min draco). No need for huge pack killers.
SS doesn't hit anything in sing, it hits after sing is over. Yup you can cast it "in advance", since the spell has a "travel time" to the mob pack. Also true that if 3 CWs use it properly, and if mobs are Steal Timed inside the sing, there will be no need for shard any longer basically, since it hits like a truck. BTW this is also how I use SS as you described, Shard down, sing almost over, SS, push shard. SS first because SS explosion spreads mobs which is obviously bad. Also worth noticing is that the probability for SS to crit after CoI+Steal Time is HUGE. These spells also trigger Wild Hunt most of the times if you have companion, so all in all it's a very good combo. Only issue is when there are many red zones and you can't perform flawless combos :P
As for Draco, SS is still extremely good, because it clears mobs fast. I've ran CN with low DPS groups and we got swamped with mobs, so you need enough damage to clear them fast. Many CWs replace it with Icy Terrain for Draco, but not all of them should do this, one or 2 are more than enough, the rest should keep SS to clear out ads faster.
I think where a lot of people get confused by snap freeze is in the log it doesn't show <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> (<font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>) damage, it buffs the <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> base damage. Just go to preview shard and you will see this easily. Respec so you only have for instance tempest, run some numbers with a low damage variation orb (cracked orb) then spec into snap freeze and see the difference. Yes it works.
I really liked your guide, can I add it to mmominds.com??
Of course, thank you for asking.
Stox - Thank you for the time with this guide - Urs and Grimahs I am all over it.
Here is where I hopefully don't lose you. I am a new player - maybe 2 weeks - Don't quote me on that and just flying with leveling level 51 almost 52 - Levels too quick...CW knowledge slow
I can't seem to wrap my head around this play style - I keep thinking long cast stay out of harms way but based on the guides I read and have tried Grimahs today - well what i could - and most of my instances I am always in the Thick of it.
Am I really going to be that close to mobs through out this game? And we really have time to switch out our powers - hell I was doing storming the gates or what ever...tried to switch out before the very last boss - And was like o.O - Had to use my aoe set up lol
Just so I understand and say ok learn how to play this way - I would appreciate some guidance.
Btw love you pvp guide as well bought the tailsman you recommended.
And my opinion on this is guide is - it works for you and will work for others - appreciate your time putting it out there.
End of the day comes down to players knowledge base and what play style works best for them and hopefully their group
Here's the thing, no guide is set in stone. In most of the end game dungeons you will have plenty of time to change from AoE to single target because there will be a campfire and a door before you get to the boss.
One of the big difference in Grimah's guide and mine is that mine will use more skills from a safe distance before getting in close to enemies, but yes there will be enemies all the time around you, so get used to that.
My rotation listed is really just for normal pulls, it is what I know to be the most DPS on average sized pulls (single packs) which is what most people do early on. Or for instance in malabog castle this is the typical way most groups pull. For CN however, there is normally a lot of running past mobs, pulling large groups of 50-80 at a time or more (depending on the group) and I would be an idiot not to be using sudden storm or icy terrain in these kinds of groups if I was truly going for the most dps, since those 2 skills have no mob caps. It's the same for VT, normally if we have a sentinel he will pull everything before the first door, and again everything after the first boss. These are huge pulls, not recommended for most players, but if I really wanted to do the most damage during them, I'd certainly have sudden storm and icy terrain in. So guys, take these guides with a grain of salt, we're not sticklers to the skills or rotations, any good CW will be changing skills all the time depending on party setup and play style.
Love the guide, very similar to the thaum build I've been using since the game came out.
I noticed that in your recent update to your powers, you no longer have Storm Spell. I'm aware that for this setup, Evocation is much better for AOE, because we're not using skills with no mob cap, like Sudden Storm or Icy Terrain. However, my question is about single target. Assuming that you use the standard single target encounter setup (Icy Rays in Mastery, RoE, Conduit, and Chill Strike), do you really see a significant damage increase slotting Chilling Presence over Storm Spell?
I guess I'm just a little confused, because we don't have Frozen Power Transfer, meaning that we're using Magic Missile on single target and not Chilling Cloud (I'm assuming the reason you are even specced into Chilling Cloud is just as a filler for trash pulls with multiple mobs?). It seems to me that our chill stacks from Icy Rays and Chill Strike would fall off on a single target fight, or even if they do fall off, is the net damage greater than Storm Spell when the stacks are reapplied?
Thanks in advance
ancient excorcist's necklace of blessings, pyrotechnic band, the DC offhand from VT. The runes are 2 for power and eldritch in defense slots.
Hi Stox
Already added your guide to mmominds.com, pls check it out
Ty once more for your collaboration to the game!
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?546241-Snap-Freeze-doesn-t-work-as-expected-Is-it-bugged
I can't help if people do bad tests
My comments on his "test" are in red.
So here's how to do a proper test, get a level 1 cracked orb so the damage numbers are low. Go to the test shard, respec, leave class features off. Record tooltip damage before and after you spec into snap freeze and damage numbers from before and after. It's not rocket science, in some cases the tooltip damage is even changed, in others it is not but the damage increase is obviously there.
Graphical bug, they're there unless they broke it since the last time I ran.
LE: i also am wondering what at wills to use.
The main thing is to get your armor pen up, at least to 1900-2000 range. Everything else will just come, such as recovery I have none slotted, same with crit. So basically arm pen and then power stack.
That's my 80s rocker outfit! Illithid robes of domination which come from boss 2 in Dread Vault. However, you can get illithid robes of dominion which is a blue item for just a couple hundred AD and it's the same look.