Is there a reason to use shard if you don't have it feated (over sudden storm)? I personally hate the animation, amount of time you have to spend casting/pushing it and the fact that the knockback is often undesirable, so I never use it.
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uurbsMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 449Bounty Hunter
edited December 2013
The knockback is a very, very good CC-effect--as it interrupts the MOBs--, even if it spreads the MOBs a bit (besides the high damage output). For a Spellstorm Mage you would run with Steal Time, Sudden Storm and Shard of the Endless Avalanche as your three no-tabbed encounters. Normally your rotation should be to group the MOBs together--either with Arcane Singularity, Entangling Force or a GWF who does Come and Get It--, than cast Shard of the Endless Avalanche, Steal Time (during Arcane Singularity), if the MOBs hit the floor again use Sudden Storm and after that push the Shard into the group.
Hey guys Quickkk question I've just hit 60 a couple days ago and am on 12k gear atm (HV) running a self made crappy build and so far I've seen this build and the following (grimmah)
Hey guys Quickkk question I've just hit 60 a couple days ago and am on 12k gear atm (HV) running a self made crappy build and so far I've seen this build and the following (grimmah)
Which in your opinion is more effective?
Looking at Grimah's feats and skills used, this one will more damage but his would offer slightly more control. The rotation I used is pretty well thought out for stacking buffs in my opinion and would be difficult for another build to do as much damage because of it. You can see the numbers in green and how much of a damage increase it is, but let me put this into perspective. Right before mod 2 I did a test where I unequipped all gear but my orb, took off my stone, all accessories, etc. I used ray of frost because this is our most consistent damage spell and my damage lost was ~22%. That's right folks, 22%! So take away all the rank 10s, all the BiS gear, etc. Now this doesn't really apply to most encounters because without HV it would be much more of a loss as well, but basically that's what stacking all that power, I believe around 7600 did for me. The real benefit of this entire build is that it does stack these buffs / debuffs in an intelligent manner to maximize dps.
Also with this rotation, generally evocation will give you several % more dps than storm spell because of the higher damage encounters. Sudden Storm may give him a slight edge on damage if there are enough mobs / short enough fight but this skill can miss entirely during a singularity, and without sing mobs are generally too spread for this to be effective dps, unless you pull entire areas like the entire first area before the first door in VT or the entire area with wizards, charging dogs, imps, and golems in VT as my parties tend to do. lol. Also his pet recommendations are outdated or have not been updated but may be in his comprehensive wizard guide.
The reliance on the situational chill/no-chill feats is not optimal imo. Because you can not reasonably synchronize with other CWs so the benefit is marginal.
Thanks for the kind comments. Niadan in mod 2 I've picked up the pvp artifact and the lantern, my crit and arm pen are a little higher than before. I've been running VT and trying to get a valindra's crown, but so far no luck.
Dread Ring boons testing:
4th column: Shadowtouched: 4 ticks of 250 damage, does scale with debuffs, but appears to have a 1 minute and 15 second cool down.
5th column:
Augmented Thayan Bastion: This shield can proc multiple times (assuming you are hit at about the same time.) It seems to absorb 1 hit, even if the hit is less than 500 damage. The damage output appears to be weakened by the enemy damage resistance without factoring your armor pen. It can proc other boons like shadowtouch. Cooldown of 1 minute.
Rampaging Madness: Every hit seems to add multiple stacks, and some encounters add more than others. Very quick to build 50 stacks, it is not one per second. They do fall off after a while if not built to 50, maybe a minute? I didn't time this. They do reset after 10 seconds or so.
Endless Consumption: Seems to have no cooldown, does what it says with 3x lifesteal, and seems to proc between 40-50% of the time.
Burning Guidance: Tried just for fun to see if lifesteal, regen, pots, or waters artifact could trigger this but it did not happen.
Heya stox, is the build on the picture in your first post still the main core of the build or did it change / update? The link is bugged somehow as it shows no points in steal time, shard or eye of the storm.
Thanks!
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sat09Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 8Arc User
edited January 2014
edit: solved my prob
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uurbsMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 449Bounty Hunter
edited January 2014
NWcalc.com updated to include the new paragon paths in a very interesting way. Therefore all old links do not show the correct setup anymore.
as much as i like nwcalc, the transition to incorporate the new paragon paths is pretty bad...
@stox: finally someone to understand the math behind percentage increases ("woah! vorpal will increase my damage by about 25% since i crit so often!" ..... *sigh*)...
nice build presentation
i also like that you speak out against crit. i once deemed critical chance the most important stat, but only due to the way i assumed critical power works. INT is the way to go.
you argued somewhere in the beginning about the benefit of fight on over something else. one advantage of high recovery you missed is that it increases your uptime of eots. one disadvantage of fight on, afai understood it, is that it stacks additively with other recovery bonuses (from recovery, INT and WIS), thus, going from 50% total recovery to 60% (putting 5 feat points) is only an increase of about 1.6/1.5 \approx 6.66% damage output, or 1.33% per point (where the first point is more valuable than the last, though the difference is small).
there are just so many different variables that it is hard to determine the best choices.
i myself e.g. am not very skilled with sotea nor anything else :P so i found that using a build that gives much control (something similar to grimah's) is my cup of tea. coi + it do a great job in freezing things. i also don't have eots in my slots, just because i miss the reflexes to make the best use of that skill
but i guess a really good player might do really well with your build...
anyway, thanks for sharing this with us
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uurbsMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 449Bounty Hunter
For boss fights, do you keep shard (and if yes, how do you use it, I experienced it doesn't impact bosses, and if they move around a lot - jumping / teleporting - it's hard to place it to get the dmg from explosion), or you replace it with ray of enfeeblement?
For boss fights, do you keep shard (and if yes, how do you use it, I experienced it doesn't impact bosses, and if they move around a lot - jumping / teleporting - it's hard to place it to get the dmg from explosion), or you replace it with ray of enfeeblement?
Keep using shard on bosses with lots of adds, always. Because you need to sing on the boss constantly, I have seen countless noobs trying to separate draco from adds, it either ends in a 30 minute fight or constant wipes. Draco fight should be 3-5 minutes at most depending on dps level.
Always sing on boss and use AOE abilities to kill adds while dpsing boss.
For boss fights, do you keep shard (and if yes, how do you use it, I experienced it doesn't impact bosses, and if they move around a lot - jumping / teleporting - it's hard to place it to get the dmg from explosion), or you replace it with ray of enfeeblement?
As verilos sort of said, it depends on the boss. For say MC/VT I'd 100% have RoE, for CN I'd have shard in. I'll try to update some info this weekend including the nwcalc. Thanks for pointing that out guys.
Updated with some new pics/info and new nwcalc build.
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twstdechoMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 630Bounty Hunter
edited January 2014
Love it... I was still running with EF on Tab to group enemies for Sudden Storm and for more control, but I tried your build out today and absolutely loved it. More damage, burning through encounters faster than ever and it doesn't feel like I gave up any control.
Hi there, I decided to roll a CW and give it a try. Do you have cheaper gear alternatives for this build to work? Like what t1 should I wear or what not? or is this a strictly gear dependent build?
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sat09Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 8Arc User
edited January 2014
Hi
First of all, thak you for sharing this build, its very offensive but also very playable. It became one of my favourites
I have one question tho.
I respeeced my old build to yours few days ago. Yesterday i went to CN and I had problems with loading my AP. It was too slow to keep the mobs in center, even with 2 other cw's. I have 3,1k recovery with Sprite and it is 30%AP gain.
How much AP gain do u have ? I assume you manage easily in CN ? Can u share how you do it ? What skill rotation?
Hi there, I decided to roll a CW and give it a try. Do you have cheaper gear alternatives for this build to work? Like what t1 should I wear or what not? or is this a strictly gear dependent build?
If you're going t1 my recommendation is always Archmage, however with Idris bugged that piece may be expensive. Your best bet might be to pvp for gladiator gear or run GG for the T2 pvp gear. Both of these can be gained for free within just a few days.
Hi
First of all, thak you for sharing this build, its very offensive but also very playable. It became one of my favourites
I have one question tho.
I respeeced my old build to yours few days ago. Yesterday i went to CN and I had problems with loading my AP. It was too slow to keep the mobs in center, even with 2 other cw's. I have 3,1k recovery with Sprite and it is 30%AP gain.
How much AP gain do u have ? I assume you manage easily in CN ? Can u share how you do it ? What skill rotation?
Regards
Most of the CWs I run with all run with the same setup for draco. CoI on tab, icy terrain, steal time, and shard. As you said, this fight is more about controlling the mobs.
What is your final (or current lol) verdict on companions?
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lurujMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 19Arc User
edited January 2014
I would dissagree with few things. This is only my opinion and i dont want to criticize anyone.
Stats - almost perfect but i prefer Life Steal + Defense over Regeneration (Ancient Cleaving etc.). With 1k+ Life Steal you heal yourself for full HP with every shard. Not mentioning other skills. Regeneration is just waste in my opinion. You can easy do every dungeon with 5 CW if everyone have 1k+ Life Steal. But you get it from HV set so nothing really to change here.
Heroic feats - perfect, but i put one more point in Fight On than in Toughness.
Feats - I prefer Frozen Power Transfer over Snap Freeze. You sometimes have time to cast it. And with my skill rotation it will not work so good.
Companions - Galeb Duhr is expensive and thanks to Life Steal you have full HP almost all the time. Slyblade Kobold seems to be good choice because Steel Time stun their targets.
Skill rotation.
Using Chill Strike is complete waste.
I use CoI(tab) -> Steel Time -> Put shard on the ground -> Sudden Storm -> Push shard
Conduit gives you debuff and apply chills. Steel Time gives you Defense Reduction(feat), activate EoTS, Wild Hunt, Slyblade Kobold. Then crits from sudden storm and shard are immense. Here also sudden storm casted on mobs in singu work on all of them and do much more dmg than chill strike will ever do. Actually sudden storm can crit for much more than shard(20k+ i would say).
For best possible DPS use the same combination but with Sudden Storm on tab. This will give you chain effect and more dmg.
When you are low on CW (1-2) CoI works perfect with Icy Terrain. Freeze all the time ;p
Set. I agree that HV is best for party DMG output. But for your DPS Champion Mag is best.
Some theoretical math:
HV set - Conduit CD on tab - 10s. You can cast it 70 times during 700s.
CM set - Conduit CD on tab - 7s. You can cast it 100 times during 700s.
This mean that your power on tab will do 42%+5% more DMG in CM set than in HV set (i know, HV debuff but it is hard to calculate). Let assume you do 8kk DMG from CoI. This mean about 3.2kk more dmg.
In any case i think that most important thing on CW is timing.
Just test Champion Mage set and my skill rotation and tell me how you feel about this. If you have time and willingness of course ;p
On a side note about Life Steal, I usually make building it a lower priority in favor of Regeneration because Regen provides continual healing, whereas being CCed or otherwise unable to start a rotation limits the effectiveness of LS.
However, with some tiny modifications to equipment and at least one companion with a +Life Steal Active Bonus, it's easy to achieve 1k LS without sacrificing other defensive stats, and the Endless Consumption boon makes it worth the investment.
I still value Regen for its overall utility and for its effectiveness in PvP, but 1k Life Steal is now a staple in my PvE setup. The added sustain is too useful to pass up.
Comments
Which in your opinion is more effective?
Empowered 10
Empowered 10
Eldritch 10
Pyro Band
Ancient Excorcist's Necklace of Blessings
DC icon from VT
Looking at Grimah's feats and skills used, this one will more damage but his would offer slightly more control. The rotation I used is pretty well thought out for stacking buffs in my opinion and would be difficult for another build to do as much damage because of it. You can see the numbers in green and how much of a damage increase it is, but let me put this into perspective. Right before mod 2 I did a test where I unequipped all gear but my orb, took off my stone, all accessories, etc. I used ray of frost because this is our most consistent damage spell and my damage lost was ~22%. That's right folks, 22%! So take away all the rank 10s, all the BiS gear, etc. Now this doesn't really apply to most encounters because without HV it would be much more of a loss as well, but basically that's what stacking all that power, I believe around 7600 did for me. The real benefit of this entire build is that it does stack these buffs / debuffs in an intelligent manner to maximize dps.
Also with this rotation, generally evocation will give you several % more dps than storm spell because of the higher damage encounters. Sudden Storm may give him a slight edge on damage if there are enough mobs / short enough fight but this skill can miss entirely during a singularity, and without sing mobs are generally too spread for this to be effective dps, unless you pull entire areas like the entire first area before the first door in VT or the entire area with wizards, charging dogs, imps, and golems in VT as my parties tend to do. lol. Also his pet recommendations are outdated or have not been updated but may be in his comprehensive wizard guide.
I've tried this build yesterday and topped the damage charts with my guild runs even though I'm 2~3k under their score
+1 rep bud
Dread Ring boons testing:
4th column: Shadowtouched: 4 ticks of 250 damage, does scale with debuffs, but appears to have a 1 minute and 15 second cool down.
5th column:
Augmented Thayan Bastion: This shield can proc multiple times (assuming you are hit at about the same time.) It seems to absorb 1 hit, even if the hit is less than 500 damage. The damage output appears to be weakened by the enemy damage resistance without factoring your armor pen. It can proc other boons like shadowtouch. Cooldown of 1 minute.
Rampaging Madness: Every hit seems to add multiple stacks, and some encounters add more than others. Very quick to build 50 stacks, it is not one per second. They do fall off after a while if not built to 50, maybe a minute? I didn't time this. They do reset after 10 seconds or so.
Endless Consumption: Seems to have no cooldown, does what it says with 3x lifesteal, and seems to proc between 40-50% of the time.
Burning Guidance: Tried just for fun to see if lifesteal, regen, pots, or waters artifact could trigger this but it did not happen.
Wow /10char
Thanks!
@stox: finally someone to understand the math behind percentage increases ("woah! vorpal will increase my damage by about 25% since i crit so often!" ..... *sigh*)...
nice build presentation
i also like that you speak out against crit. i once deemed critical chance the most important stat, but only due to the way i assumed critical power works. INT is the way to go.
you argued somewhere in the beginning about the benefit of fight on over something else. one advantage of high recovery you missed is that it increases your uptime of eots. one disadvantage of fight on, afai understood it, is that it stacks additively with other recovery bonuses (from recovery, INT and WIS), thus, going from 50% total recovery to 60% (putting 5 feat points) is only an increase of about 1.6/1.5 \approx 6.66% damage output, or 1.33% per point (where the first point is more valuable than the last, though the difference is small).
there are just so many different variables that it is hard to determine the best choices.
i myself e.g. am not very skilled with sotea nor anything else :P so i found that using a build that gives much control (something similar to grimah's) is my cup of tea. coi + it do a great job in freezing things. i also don't have eots in my slots, just because i miss the reflexes to make the best use of that skill
but i guess a really good player might do really well with your build...
anyway, thanks for sharing this with us
Is there a way to know the number behind each spell, it could be a lot more better for optimization.
For boss fights, do you keep shard (and if yes, how do you use it, I experienced it doesn't impact bosses, and if they move around a lot - jumping / teleporting - it's hard to place it to get the dmg from explosion), or you replace it with ray of enfeeblement?
Keep using shard on bosses with lots of adds, always. Because you need to sing on the boss constantly, I have seen countless noobs trying to separate draco from adds, it either ends in a 30 minute fight or constant wipes. Draco fight should be 3-5 minutes at most depending on dps level.
Always sing on boss and use AOE abilities to kill adds while dpsing boss.
As verilos sort of said, it depends on the boss. For say MC/VT I'd 100% have RoE, for CN I'd have shard in. I'll try to update some info this weekend including the nwcalc. Thanks for pointing that out guys.
That means I'd keep shard, CS, CoI and drop steal time for RoE.
First of all, thak you for sharing this build, its very offensive but also very playable. It became one of my favourites
I have one question tho.
I respeeced my old build to yours few days ago. Yesterday i went to CN and I had problems with loading my AP. It was too slow to keep the mobs in center, even with 2 other cw's. I have 3,1k recovery with Sprite and it is 30%AP gain.
How much AP gain do u have ? I assume you manage easily in CN ? Can u share how you do it ? What skill rotation?
Regards
If you're going t1 my recommendation is always Archmage, however with Idris bugged that piece may be expensive. Your best bet might be to pvp for gladiator gear or run GG for the T2 pvp gear. Both of these can be gained for free within just a few days.
Most of the CWs I run with all run with the same setup for draco. CoI on tab, icy terrain, steal time, and shard. As you said, this fight is more about controlling the mobs.
What is your final (or current lol) verdict on companions?
Stats - almost perfect but i prefer Life Steal + Defense over Regeneration (Ancient Cleaving etc.). With 1k+ Life Steal you heal yourself for full HP with every shard. Not mentioning other skills. Regeneration is just waste in my opinion. You can easy do every dungeon with 5 CW if everyone have 1k+ Life Steal. But you get it from HV set so nothing really to change here.
Heroic feats - perfect, but i put one more point in Fight On than in Toughness.
Feats - I prefer Frozen Power Transfer over Snap Freeze. You sometimes have time to cast it. And with my skill rotation it will not work so good.
Companions - Galeb Duhr is expensive and thanks to Life Steal you have full HP almost all the time. Slyblade Kobold seems to be good choice because Steel Time stun their targets.
Skill rotation.
Using Chill Strike is complete waste.
I use CoI(tab) -> Steel Time -> Put shard on the ground -> Sudden Storm -> Push shard
Conduit gives you debuff and apply chills. Steel Time gives you Defense Reduction(feat), activate EoTS, Wild Hunt, Slyblade Kobold. Then crits from sudden storm and shard are immense. Here also sudden storm casted on mobs in singu work on all of them and do much more dmg than chill strike will ever do. Actually sudden storm can crit for much more than shard(20k+ i would say).
For best possible DPS use the same combination but with Sudden Storm on tab. This will give you chain effect and more dmg.
When you are low on CW (1-2) CoI works perfect with Icy Terrain. Freeze all the time ;p
Set. I agree that HV is best for party DMG output. But for your DPS Champion Mag is best.
Some theoretical math:
HV set - Conduit CD on tab - 10s. You can cast it 70 times during 700s.
CM set - Conduit CD on tab - 7s. You can cast it 100 times during 700s.
This mean that your power on tab will do 42%+5% more DMG in CM set than in HV set (i know, HV debuff but it is hard to calculate). Let assume you do 8kk DMG from CoI. This mean about 3.2kk more dmg.
In any case i think that most important thing on CW is timing.
Just test Champion Mage set and my skill rotation and tell me how you feel about this. If you have time and willingness of course ;p
However, with some tiny modifications to equipment and at least one companion with a +Life Steal Active Bonus, it's easy to achieve 1k LS without sacrificing other defensive stats, and the Endless Consumption boon makes it worth the investment.
I still value Regen for its overall utility and for its effectiveness in PvP, but 1k Life Steal is now a staple in my PvE setup. The added sustain is too useful to pass up.
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