Part of this is due to diminishing returns on RP gained from refining with higher level items. Actually using same-rank enchants for refining at higher levels is silly and nobody should do it.
Part of it is due to the requirement that you have a matching enchantment to use as a reagent for the epic upgrades (which is why it takes 5, not 4).
Yes agreed - it is best to use the same type Rank 1-4 enchants for refining as they give the highest RP per AD ratio.
But I was wondering as to how the poster came by his figures as they seem at variance with the ones in the official thread.
If upgrading stat enchantments or runestones, always use the same type. And just use this cost chart as a guide.
-Dont spend more than 2500 per Rank 5 (sometimes you will see them sell at 200k for 99, grab those if you can afford it),
-Do not spend more than 500 per rank 4,
-no more than 100 for r3 (i dont like using 3's because typically 4 cost more than a rank 4, and its not worth the hassle).
-If you are starting with Rank 6's, dont spend more than 20k, otherwise you might as well buy a 7 and start with that.
-buy pres wards when they are on sale, like NOW
For weapon/armor enchantments, use peridots (your welcome)
Stick with that and you will profit
"If you don't know who I am, then maybe your best course would be to tread lightly" -- Walter White
0
tripsofthrymrMember, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,624Community Moderator
The only real problem is the bottleneck at the blue mark stage, which (since they now apparently drop from solo-dungeon nodes and nodes in L60 content) should hopefully be less of a problem.
Is there confirmation that blue marks can drop in solo dungeons? I have never seen that happen, to me or anyone in my guild.
If upgrading stat enchantments or runestones, always use the same type. And just use this cost chart as a guide.
-Dont spend more than 2500 per Rank 5 (sometimes you will see them sell at 200k for 99, grab those if you can afford it),
-Do not spend more than 500 per rank 4,
-no more than 100 for r3 (i dont like using 3's because typically 4 cost more than a rank 4, and its not worth the hassle).
-If you are starting with Rank 6's, dont spend more than 20k, otherwise you might as well buy a 7 and start with that.
-buy pres wards when they are on sale, like NOW
For weapon/armor enchantments, use peridots (your welcome)
Stick with that and you will profit
Could you explain this in more detail. I am confused as to what you mean by "do not spend more than 2500 per rank 5".
Usually only Ranks 2-4 (maybe 5) are worth considering as using rank 1s gets very tedious and rank 6+ require expensive reagents so their RP/AD ratio is much worse.
0
beckylunaticMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 14,231Arc User
edited December 2013
And if you're not going to buy things in order to use them for refining points and are content to just use whatever you find while playing (or from your leadership boxes, etc.), feel free to ignore everything anyone's ever written about how much to pay.
Rank 7s on multiple characters have been pretty achievable for me just from all the things I had lying around, since I was willing to pay a certain amount for the blue marks and preservation wards to make them. If you're not hardcore into PvP, maxing out your enchantments is really optional, or something you can work on slowly.
Could you explain this in more detail. I am confused as to what you mean by "do not spend more than 2500 per rank 5".
Some costs remain constant, so always start with that. For instance, creating a r8 will require 2 r7s, 1 epic mark, and refinement. First off check the ah forr r8 prices. Looks like they are selling for 504k, so yours will list at 500. The r7s are going to average 100k, no matter how you slice it, and the mark is always 100k. So now your cost is 300k + 50k to the auctioneer leaves you a 150k profit margin before you refine. R7-8 is about 34k refinement points. So if you use r5s because you found them dirt cheap at 2k, then your refinement cost about 60k, and you profit 90k. But maybe someone's selling r4s at 250 each, we'll now you just cut refinement in half and you profit 120k.
Patience, a little work, and a windows calculator will carry you to the promised land.
"If you don't know who I am, then maybe your best course would be to tread lightly" -- Walter White
The trick is to put junk enchants into the refining, not waste upgraded enchants. You actually get more points per level from lower level enchants, which you can farm very easily.
With the new system, you only need 8 enchants of rank 7 to make a rank 10. Under the old system, you'd need 64. To make up for that, they've required the refining points and the Marks of Potency. Also, you can farm Marks of Potency in dungeons any time.
In short, it's not the best system, but it's not terrible once you learn how it works. It's designed to be a process to make higher level enchants, (mostly to deter gold sellers) but still doable for casual players.
I disagree it is very terrible once you get to know it. If marks of potency dropped like lockboxes it would be bearable, but that doesn't happen.
This is absolutely a big issue with MMO gamers of NW. As of this post, the Neverwinter Preview Feedback/General Discussion threads, only the Hunter Ranger Feedback thread has more views 33,815, and replies 769. The Refinement System Pt. 2 Feedback had 28,198 views and 581 replies, almost double the next highest topic of Control Wizard, some 16,000 views.
While there are improvements to the system, there are also some glaring issues. I hope that in the spirit of putting out a quality product, Cryptic/Perfect World will not wait too long to address the refinement system.
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0
ulkaurMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited December 2013
This lack of forward planning comment is a joke. So we have to foresee and take necessary steps in advance of a change we didn't ask for or just suffer because of it? What kind of a company specifically goes out and does something that we should have to consider foreseeing to circumvent an option?
Seriously, I will not use the new system as it is. This expansion is pretty, and that's all I can say about it. Lackluster gear stats on dozens of items were designed only to get us to transmute it to our existing and better gear. Artifacts that will add to the refinement crisis. I'm not going to make idle threats about quitting or anything, my zen purchases(or not)will say it all.
And what about new players? They have to come at this with all of the new refinement hassle at level 1. Everything they upgrade is going to have a cost associated with it. Guess they lose for waiting til now to start playing if lack of forethought is the issue.
refine point requirements (not including reagents):
it takes 3 of the same item to upgrade from r1 to r2.
it takes 3 of the same item to upgrade from r2 to r3.
it takes 3 of the same item to upgrade from r3 to r4.
it takes 4 of the same item to upgrade from r4 to r5.
it takes 4 of the same item to upgrade from r5 to r6.
it takes 4 of the same item to upgrade from r6 to r7.
it takes 5 of the same item to upgrade from r7 to r8.
it takes 5 of the same item to upgrade from r8 to r9.
it takes 5 of the same item to upgrade from r9 to r10.
If this is wrong you have better inform the guide-writer or post in that thread.
yeah my bad, I was wrong.
I made the calculations assuming the fey enchants were r7s but it seems they are r8s. I Obviously never use the higher end enchants for feeding purposes except for those which have an excellent rp/ad ratio.
If u check those values next level enchantment gives x3 the lower ranked one, except were it weirds out in r5 and r6 where its x4 and then in r7s its just x2. I wonder why they did it like that instead of keeping a linear progresion of x3.
Easy rule of thumb: don't pay more AD for refining materials than you can buy them for in the AD store, which is around 6 AD per point of increase (don't remember number exactly, but it's in that range).
Basically, you should always do better than AD store prices with AH purchased items, possibly much better if you make sure to only buy "bonus" type stuff for your refining.
Some costs remain constant, so always start with that. For instance, creating a r8 will require 2 r7s, 1 epic mark, and refinement. First off check [...][...] you profit 120k.
Patience, a little work, and a windows calculator will carry you to the promised land.
Great explanation and now I totally get it. I was thinking it was refinement costs to get to the next rank and I couldn't make sense of that after checking the values ingame. Thx Noxisst
0
ulkaurMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Great explanation and now I totally get it. I was thinking it was refinement costs to get to the next rank and I couldn't make sense of that after checking the values ingame. Thx Noxisst
This may be true but you have to be honest about the value of the "and the refinement" part. Using the old system, you could have just combined the enchants\stones using 4 of the same type to make the next level, with no epic marks. You just used preservation wards to ensure eventual success. How many rank 4's get eaten up to make a rank 7 using refinement? Way more than the old way.
Why people are ignoring the diamond value involved in the inherent ranking up process is beyond me.
This may be true but you have to be honest about the value of the "and the refinement" part. Using the old system, you could have just combined the enchants\stones using 4 of the same type to make the next level, with no epic marks. You just used preservation wards to ensure eventual success. How many rank 4's get eaten up to make a rank 7 using refinement? Way more than the old way.
Why people are ignoring the diamond value involved in the inherent ranking up process is beyond me.
This is what gets me too.
It takes at least as many equivalent enchantments to make the higher rank now, and if you use different types of enchantment in the process it takes double as many. You do save on wards, as there are fewer upgrade points, but then again you pay out a lot more in reagents...
players who do not read patch notes or forums do not even know you buy the marks of potency from bazaar. Take a look at the auction house, theres many people trying to rip off people by posting up greater marks and normal ones for more than the bazaar cost. if it was more universally known im sure these prices will drop a bit.
But yea, the issue with this new system is how rare these catalysts drop. Cryptic said it was intended for them to be common, but i think ive only managed to find enough catalysts to make maybe 4 rank 5 enchants.....
I cannot even be bothered to make enchants these days and just feed my artifact with them instead.... i dont want to buy those greater potencys.
I cannot even be bothered to make enchants these days and just feed my artifact with them instead.... i dont want to buy those greater potencys.
I've finally managed 2 days ago or so to make all 8s on char/stone. I decided that was it for me. The effort it took me to go through this... I don't think it's worth it. I still feed radiants, darks etc. on same type enchants in my gear, but I don't think I will ever have yet another rank 8 to use as reagent. Why would I spend 600K on it (with mark)? It's insane. There's a certain point where it becomes crazy for a f2p player, and to deal with it you gotta be basically "working" the game for 8 hrs+/day. Not intending to go through such a chore for a few more stats.
0
twstdechoMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 630Bounty Hunter
They should make it possible to combine lesser reagents to create blues with NO additional reagent cost, or/and make it possible to break down a purple.
This. Heck, I'd even settle for being able to use a purple mark in place of a blue. It's higher quality, it should work that way.
Cost of preservation wards > marks between ranks 7-10. Even if you are one who used to "farm" preservation wards, you would still benefit more from selling the remaining preservation wards to buy marks.
"If you don't know who I am, then maybe your best course would be to tread lightly" -- Walter White
In acccordance with precedent concerning this subject, we will be closing this thread as it only serves to provide an avenue for flaming. We will communicate with the community managers to discuss how we can provide an avenue without the constant need to moderate after the holiday. At this time, this and all active discussions concerning the refinement system, coffer of augmentations changes post m2 and alleged drop rates will be locked until further notice. Thank you.
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Comments
Yes agreed - it is best to use the same type Rank 1-4 enchants for refining as they give the highest RP per AD ratio.
But I was wondering as to how the poster came by his figures as they seem at variance with the ones in the official thread.
You have to rank up an reagent enchant along with the target enchant.
You have to rank up another enchant to rank up the reagent enchant to rank up the target enchant.
Things are spinning out of control!!!
-Dont spend more than 2500 per Rank 5 (sometimes you will see them sell at 200k for 99, grab those if you can afford it),
-Do not spend more than 500 per rank 4,
-no more than 100 for r3 (i dont like using 3's because typically 4 cost more than a rank 4, and its not worth the hassle).
-If you are starting with Rank 6's, dont spend more than 20k, otherwise you might as well buy a 7 and start with that.
-buy pres wards when they are on sale, like NOW
For weapon/armor enchantments, use peridots (your welcome)
Stick with that and you will profit
Is there confirmation that blue marks can drop in solo dungeons? I have never seen that happen, to me or anyone in my guild.
Sci-fi author: The Gods We Make, The Gods We Seek, and Ji-min
Once I got a single Blue Mark of Power from the end chest (not Gauntlet chest) of the Dread Lords daily mini-dungeon.
Sci-fi author: The Gods We Make, The Gods We Seek, and Ji-min
People are reporting that the blue marks can drop from regular level 60 non dungeon skill nodes but I'd assume that they are ultra rare drops , the threads here - http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?554541-Blue-Mark-Of-Power-Dropping-From-Feywild-Crafting-Node
Could you explain this in more detail. I am confused as to what you mean by "do not spend more than 2500 per rank 5".
Its a rule of thumb, given the current prices in the AH.
To find the best RP for your AD, you need to check the current AH prices of each level of the enchantment you want to raise and divide by:
(http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?541751-Guide-to-the-New-Refinement-System)
Different/same RP item value
R1 = 5/10
R2 = 15/30
R3 = 45/90
R4 = 135/270
R5 = 540/1080
R6 = 2160/4320
R7 = 4320/8640
R8 = 12960/25920
R9 = 38880/77760
Usually only Ranks 2-4 (maybe 5) are worth considering as using rank 1s gets very tedious and rank 6+ require expensive reagents so their RP/AD ratio is much worse.
Rank 7s on multiple characters have been pretty achievable for me just from all the things I had lying around, since I was willing to pay a certain amount for the blue marks and preservation wards to make them. If you're not hardcore into PvP, maxing out your enchantments is really optional, or something you can work on slowly.
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Some costs remain constant, so always start with that. For instance, creating a r8 will require 2 r7s, 1 epic mark, and refinement. First off check the ah forr r8 prices. Looks like they are selling for 504k, so yours will list at 500. The r7s are going to average 100k, no matter how you slice it, and the mark is always 100k. So now your cost is 300k + 50k to the auctioneer leaves you a 150k profit margin before you refine. R7-8 is about 34k refinement points. So if you use r5s because you found them dirt cheap at 2k, then your refinement cost about 60k, and you profit 90k. But maybe someone's selling r4s at 250 each, we'll now you just cut refinement in half and you profit 120k.
Patience, a little work, and a windows calculator will carry you to the promised land.
I disagree it is very terrible once you get to know it. If marks of potency dropped like lockboxes it would be bearable, but that doesn't happen.
While there are improvements to the system, there are also some glaring issues. I hope that in the spirit of putting out a quality product, Cryptic/Perfect World will not wait too long to address the refinement system.
Seriously, I will not use the new system as it is. This expansion is pretty, and that's all I can say about it. Lackluster gear stats on dozens of items were designed only to get us to transmute it to our existing and better gear. Artifacts that will add to the refinement crisis. I'm not going to make idle threats about quitting or anything, my zen purchases(or not)will say it all.
And what about new players? They have to come at this with all of the new refinement hassle at level 1. Everything they upgrade is going to have a cost associated with it. Guess they lose for waiting til now to start playing if lack of forethought is the issue.
yeah my bad, I was wrong.
I made the calculations assuming the fey enchants were r7s but it seems they are r8s. I Obviously never use the higher end enchants for feeding purposes except for those which have an excellent rp/ad ratio.
If u check those values next level enchantment gives x3 the lower ranked one, except were it weirds out in r5 and r6 where its x4 and then in r7s its just x2. I wonder why they did it like that instead of keeping a linear progresion of x3.
Basically, you should always do better than AD store prices with AH purchased items, possibly much better if you make sure to only buy "bonus" type stuff for your refining.
Great explanation and now I totally get it. I was thinking it was refinement costs to get to the next rank and I couldn't make sense of that after checking the values ingame. Thx Noxisst
This may be true but you have to be honest about the value of the "and the refinement" part. Using the old system, you could have just combined the enchants\stones using 4 of the same type to make the next level, with no epic marks. You just used preservation wards to ensure eventual success. How many rank 4's get eaten up to make a rank 7 using refinement? Way more than the old way.
Why people are ignoring the diamond value involved in the inherent ranking up process is beyond me.
This is what gets me too.
It takes at least as many equivalent enchantments to make the higher rank now, and if you use different types of enchantment in the process it takes double as many. You do save on wards, as there are fewer upgrade points, but then again you pay out a lot more in reagents...
But yea, the issue with this new system is how rare these catalysts drop. Cryptic said it was intended for them to be common, but i think ive only managed to find enough catalysts to make maybe 4 rank 5 enchants.....
I cannot even be bothered to make enchants these days and just feed my artifact with them instead.... i dont want to buy those greater potencys.
and also the featured satirical comedic adventure "A Call for Heroes".
I've finally managed 2 days ago or so to make all 8s on char/stone. I decided that was it for me. The effort it took me to go through this... I don't think it's worth it. I still feed radiants, darks etc. on same type enchants in my gear, but I don't think I will ever have yet another rank 8 to use as reagent. Why would I spend 600K on it (with mark)? It's insane. There's a certain point where it becomes crazy for a f2p player, and to deal with it you gotta be basically "working" the game for 8 hrs+/day. Not intending to go through such a chore for a few more stats.
This. Heck, I'd even settle for being able to use a purple mark in place of a blue. It's higher quality, it should work that way.
Its not like there is anything even great in the Coffers any more.
Great Weapon Fighter: Because when is today not a good day to die?
PC and PS4 player. Proud Guildmaster for PS4 Team Fencebane. Rank 5 Officer for PC Team Fencebane. Visit us at http://fencebane.shivtr.com