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Legal Run
jacksoon
Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 332 Arc User
Hi all, is almost 2 weak i try found DD party whit my DC. A lot of people look for DC during DD, so i send them some pm asking if they do legal run, and here the reply:
- sorry, we can't do legal run, gods don't let's us do it;
- we do paranormal run;
- we don't waste time whit legal run;
- xD ;
- player is ignoring you;
- sorry, we don't do party whit noobs.
So this are the reply after 2 weaks of try to do a legal run during a DD whit PuG. Is like, the legal are the bad guys, no one wont to add us, and the exploiter, bugger and runner are the good boys. Now, is the Cryptic/Pwe willing to do something in the future?
- sorry, we can't do legal run, gods don't let's us do it;
- we do paranormal run;
- we don't waste time whit legal run;
- xD ;
- player is ignoring you;
- sorry, we don't do party whit noobs.
So this are the reply after 2 weaks of try to do a legal run during a DD whit PuG. Is like, the legal are the bad guys, no one wont to add us, and the exploiter, bugger and runner are the good boys. Now, is the Cryptic/Pwe willing to do something in the future?
Post edited by jacksoon on
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then be legit...
but there is a " legit community " channel
i think thats what its called. might have
better luck there.
Why aren't you using the custom chat channel that was made for people who want to play like you?
Neverwinter Census 2017
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its the fact that no one reports
the bugs, and people exploit it.
why some bugs take so long to get fixed.
they never get reported.
They don't need to "add" anything. What they "needed" (past tense) and still "need" (present tense) is to send in some Quality Assurance testers to test each dungeon's geometry. I'm certain that they can even pacify or turn off the mobs so they can roam about freely while testing. The fact that they did not and still have not "fixed" these issues lends to the exploitable areas still not being patched. If they can't afford the manpower to do a base level of QA, let a select group of community testers into each dungeon to find, document and report the existing flaws.
There's really no other way to say it than to say if they don't care to QA before releasing content, or QA after it has been beaten to death on the forums, they may just not care.
We aren't talking about stats affecting issues here, simply send in one of the parkour teams (you know, the ones that TRY to get places that the Dev's never intended people to get to) and let them find all the "out of bounds" areas. Once found, seal them off and be done with geometry exploiters.
Almost too simple......
Fix the exploiting.....then if people are reluctant to run or unable to run them, adjust the content. Don't however, use the community at large as a reason to not address the issue of exploiting.
at second: welcome to life. Doing everything as fast and as easy as possible is just what even the bigbosses of modern world do infornt of us and what even little kids get thought.
Cryptic/PWE sadly does almost nothing against this exploiting bug(ab)using masses.
And most can be fixed pretty easy just by placing some elements, invisible or visible doesn't matter.
krinaman, what dungeons is "nearly impossible to pug"?
may Castle Nevers Draco needs a bit more of communication, also Dread Vault epic and maybe Karrundax first boss... But all other dungeons I pugged successful within a few attempts.
But thats the point of MMOs in general - communication, tactics and actions with others.
I think your first two points are enabling and defeatist at best.
Why enable exploiters? Why not fix the exploits and therefore not need to use a special channel to get the game you want to play? I see this "special channel" as a temporary work around until exploits are dealt with, NOT a permanent fix.
I don't buy in to anything that has defeatist undertones. You can still do things as fast as you want but wouldn't the game and the gaming community be happier to support and continue to support this game if it was on even footing? Albeit the even footing at the moment is that everyone has the choice to exploit or to not exploit. Fixing the exploits and returning everyone to the same footing has far reaching implications. Knowing that my fellow gamer has to do the exact same things as I have to do lends credibility to the game. It has (or did have) implications for the economy as well. If everyone had to spend the same time and effort to obtain items, those items would hold more value, intrinsic or monetary. Right now there are exploiters that obtain their items at a faster/easier/more ready rate than others and that creates disillusionment of the game's authenticity and integrity.
Fix the dungeon geometry exploits and PWE would eventually regain the player base. How does it make you feel when you think they "do almost nothing against the (sic) exploiting masses?" Wouldn't your opinion of them change if they would address a few of the long standing and continuing issues of OP?
I'm not suggesting that they don't address exploiting. In fact, I am suggesting they address exploiting by addressing the root cause of the exploiting.
- "lol go away ret***, you're a waste of a life"
- "ok let's take this shortcut, it's not a bug" (the second you enter spider with that team saying they are "ok with legit").
That's basically all of the social experience people willing to play the game get with public groups or /lfg. That's why i'm playing less these days, what's the point of running to get pointless rewards you would never use since all content is glitched?
Of course I have a guild but there's a huge turnover in this game; most people stop playing after a few weeks because guildies aren't always available and they get a terrible and frustrating pug experience. That may be my guild only but that's still quite a lot of people. And a huge turnover just means the same issues over and over in the guild (which is helping them to get equipment before they leave).
I wouldn't hold my breathe for module 2: more invisible walls, but nothing preventing people to cheat. At this pace the game won't last long.
To be honest it's more annoying than dozens of adds on FH
The most frustrating thing about exploits in NW is to really know what is or not an exploit. To me an exploit was always to take advantage of a bug, in NW it seems that it can also be using a skill, the terrain or a combination of both. I've already consulted the devs about exploits, but it seems that we can only report situations that we think are exploits and not to ask if they are or not exploits, we'll never know the official standing untill they fix it, or do something resembled to that (invisible walls?).
There are a lot of sites in the web with exploits, the best (worst) one is youtube
There's no need of this "Don't talk about exploits" policy in the forums, ppl who wants to exploit will find out anyway, and ppl who doesn't want to exploit will only find out after they did it. I think you would gain more if people could talk openly about this in the forums, and especially if there was a official response to what is and what isn't considered a exploit. I'm not a dev, I don't know if that specific boss is meant to be battled only in a specific area or not, unless it's closed, or the boss doesn't moves away from that area, and invisible walls, to me, seem more of game glitches than fixes.
We are now considering as an exploit, pulling a boss to a different area of the map when the mobs don't follow it, I don't know if we are overdoing this or not, but again, we have to guess, it's frustrating...
Errguro@Portuga666
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submit bug reports and leave it up to cryptic to decide what to do.
this really bothers me lately, that not even in pugs people keep away from bugging the dungeons. it is quite arrogant to pull everyone in a randomly created party down to do cheating path. people should at least ask at the start if people want to do it normally or not and if they don't want to do it normally they could leave rightaway without wasting the time of others.
i even ask in lfg to do exploit-free runs. i hardly get any invites then (because most premades in lfg do speed-runs and exploits), but sometimes people invite me and then the first thing i see is them running through the mobs or doing other stupid stuff and this i don't get either. i advertise doing the dungeons legit but people doesn't seem to care, invite me and start exploiting. yesterday though i joined a group and all agreed on doing sp normal. it was fast and a good run. then the second run we switched one player and in front of the door of the first boss this guy just immediately tried to exploit the mobs. we told him he should stop and come to us fighting.
this is really the main problem: people don't even try to beat dungeons normally anymore, they don't even expect that others want to run a dungeon normally. it has become an unwritten rule to bug certain dungeons and people just do it everywhere. this really is annoying. even new players don't learn to beat a dungeon normally because in most cases they just join dungeons that are exploited. my first experience with karrundax weeks back as new lvl 60 was (after i was prepared to fight) that people ran through mobs and suddenly someone said "die here" and i really didn't understand why i should die somewhere when i entered a dungeon as a healer to prevent dying in the first place and actually play the dungeon for fun.
mc is an improvement, but it has another problem - majority of player base are so bad that they CANT do it without exploits, in wow we sometimes spent 4+ hours on a raid wiping to learn and get it right, now ppl start crying after an hour in a dungeon. i hope new dungeon will be similar to mc and will force ppl to get better instead of finding ways to abuse bugs, and will differentiate good ppl from trash making bad ppl unable to do them and get gear
Last week I got into a PuG for Malabog's Castle. The dungeon meant no trouble, but we constantly had to fend off suggestions from our 14k GF to cheat at some parts. When we finally got to the Valindra/Fulminorax battle, we were crushed, and the GF admitted he had run the dungeon dozens of time, but never defeated the end bosses without glitching them. There you go: a high gs and no skill at all.
hahaha, like to see more of those reactions.
i don`t even bother looking for a group anymore.
but why does it take months to fix mc.
to us it seems like they`re realy doing nothing and not caring about it.
sorry if it s already fixed, and if not it shows something.
pug mc a couple of times and you ll see most of it.
because legal shouldn t be in a corner ;p
that`s more something where the illigal players belong and give lfg back to legal players ;p
they fixed main exploit but there are 2 more i know of
can t go into detailes unfortunately.
the big ones i guess are the ones where people solo 2 bosses in there ;p
on one side i understand why they exploit, i get oneshot too sometimes, just because my spec and gear is not build for it.
would be easier for everyone if there was dualspec with 1 button click gearchange
guess conversation ends here
otherwise we re not legal anymore ;p lol
maybe double seal + add some good loot that can be sold on ah
also the legit channel is not at all very active even at DD time.
So here are some obvious and blatant factors that contribute to people wanting to exploit.
1. The Queue system is utterly and horrendously bugged. I get placed into dungeons with no group. I get placed into parties that are missing people. I get stuck in queue even though I am not and have to take off my gear to remove the lock. After these bugs I sometimes end up at the entrance to the dungeon and have to run back to the Enclave to lfg again. With bugs I spend and this is not an exaggeration at least 30 minutes during every DD doing nothing but running back to enclave taking off my armor and then of course going back to last place in the queue system when I rejoin it. There buggy queue is actually incentive for skipping and speed running.
2. Dungeon Delves happens 3 times a day and most people only catch 1 or maybe 2. This window of 60 minutes is the only time we can get any good armor for our class excluding MC and CN. And even in this window we are only guaranteed a % chance not a guarantee. I had to run Temple of Spider 13 times before I got my chest armor. This is an extremely limited window of opportunity and gives actual incentive to skipping and speed running dungeons.
3. CWs own all adds in dungeons. The difference between having a CW in your group and not is quite literally night and day. Having 2 coordinated CWs is just own time. The difference in the amount of time it takes for a legit run with a CW versus without is enormous. None of the other classes even have a moderate suite of skills that can compete with the CC of a CW. Because of this absurd lack of balance it is again another incentive to skip mode a dungeon especially when you have no CWs in the group.
4 Bosses absent the infinite spawn triggers have no challenge whatsoever. A boss fight consists of kiting and CC with piles of adds (some of which break because of their sheer number) all over the place and often times blocking targets that are intended to be hit. After the 4th or 5th time fighting a boss that takes 5 to 10 minutes because most of the energy in the fight is given to dealing with or avoiding adds it is yet another incentive to skip mode the boss. Factor in that the boss will almost never drop anything of value (Usually a junk piece worth salvaging at 6k AD.)
The above bugs and balance issues and outright design flaws are within Cryptic's control to do something about but they have not. Add in the fact that lfgs are now blatantly advertising speed runs in open chat and it is obvious Cryptic does not care. Which is yet another incentive to speed mode dungeons.
As far as the community in general goes all I see is elitist snobs on one side or the other. The legit people claim to be all that because they don't cheat and the skip modes claim to be elite players. Blah blah blah...
I propose instead of whining about people cheating you raise issue to the fact that skipping has a great deal of incentive to it given the design and mechanics of the game in general. Usually MMOs place loot drop and probability on all bosses that is worthwhile but that is not the case here. Also usually an MMO has a working queue system that has a replace option as well as a kick option not a single authority kick and no replace. Also I have yet to see an MMO with a layer of infinite add spawns. In fact most MMOs today forgo even having much trash or adds. Yes there are triggers that adds need to be rounded up and then killed in most MMOs but this layer of infinite adds is just ridiculous. And CC... Usually yes there is one or 2 classes that have specific CC functions in fights but the weight in this game with its limited classes on the shoulders of a CW is absurd. Factor in the miniscule DD window and the total absence of communication in dungeons whether because of language barrier or outright lack of willingness to type in chat and it is set up for people to do things as fast as possible. Which in turn means skipping is going to be the predominant form of dungeon runs. Over time this behavior will only increase as it has.
Seriously if you want a larger "legit" community then focus on the design mechanics that encourage the behavior and not finger pointing and acting like your so great because you don't skip things. As it stands now because of the difficulty curve of some fights if people could not skip them there would be less people playing the game. Hence the reason why there is no collision blocks put in already. The overall design of dungeons needs to be redone to create incentive to play through them in their entirety and feel both rewarded for the time spent and encouraged by the challenge. And infinite add spawns is not a challenge. The final boss in FH is absurd. So absurd you can literally watch the adds break as they keep spawning as they just sit there try to locate a target. Its like a beta joke or something.
To qualify all I have written I absolutely do not condone any exploitation of game mechanics. I am simply pointing out some deeper problems that are outside the scope of simply finger pointing at those who do and those who do not. If the proper incentive and design was employed by both the queue and by the dungeon themselves many more people would play through the dungeons in their entirety and that behavior would increase over time. As it stands now the design of both the queue and the dungeons themselves only foster the mind state of get it done and get it done as fast as possible. I do not have much faith in them actually adjusting the embedded designs much but at least I would like to see actual dialog about exploiting that isn't who is better and who is worse nonsense.