My issue with the delves chest, is that 90% of the time its utter <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>.
Why would i in a t2 dungeon, be getting a chest drop of t1 set pieces? EVER?
I ran spellplague almost 23 times before i got my HV cap.
Slightly <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> if you ask me.
My issue with the delves chest, is that 90% of the time its utter <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>.
Why would i in a t2 dungeon, be getting a chest drop of t1 set pieces? EVER?
I ran spellplague almost 23 times before i got my HV cap.
Slightly <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> if you ask me.
Same here... the probability is supposed to be "10% T2 pieces as indicated by the dungeon info"...
My issue with the delves chest, is that 90% of the time its utter <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>.
Why would i in a t2 dungeon, be getting a chest drop of t1 set pieces? EVER?
I ran spellplague almost 23 times before i got my HV cap.
Slightly <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> if you ask me.
Because the HV was supposed to be difficult to acquire. And it got you to run the dungeon numerous times. how many times have you run it since?
I pretty much only run pirate king now, since it is really quick and easy, and I am only running for shards. I get the T2 at least every fifth chest. Of course even if I wasn't geared I wouldn't use it.
Why do crafted items have to be BoP ? (Gauntlets, Malabog...).
They should be Bound to Account at least, if they aren't meant to hit the market.
Btw: anybody here played Runes of Magic and remembers the 2 varieties of unbinders ? I half expect to see them in Z-store, soon...
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inthefade462Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited October 2013
A lot of confusion on what end game is here. Getting your t2 set, gemmed shirt/pants, and bis jewelry etc is all part of the process of gearing up as a fresh level 60. Its not until you are at that level gear wise (bis every slot) that the real end game grind begins, which is and always has been enchants. Perfects, rank 8+ enchants, etc. Those things which are not even up for discussion to become bop and never have been.
All bop did was add a huge artificial grind between gearing up a fresh 60 to start end game advancement. A gap was formed between the haves and have nots, making it far more tedious for the have nots to become the haves. This is of course to entice zen to ad conversion. You cannot fault a company for wanting to sell more zen as that is there business model, but those of us hoping for a little less obvious money grab for the sake of game balance have been left wanting.
People who came into the game on the otherside of the bop change (or the.more casual, rp types, etc who didnt hit end game before the change) are under the false impression that getting your mc/cn weapons and t2 set is end game progression, when in reality that is when you are geared and ready to begin the end game.
Bop made it harder for the less hardcore to play end game without zen purchase. And it made the end game grind for those of us who are "hard core" slower due to slow down in ad accumulation.
Besides in Cryptics view AD to zen conversion is still on the low end of their 350-500 scale. hovering around 370. They want to push that higher.
Eh, the min/max on the scale is 50-500. It can go a lot lower than 350 (over in Star Trek, while I was playing actively, the rate was in the 90-130 range. Even with the lower refining rate - 8k dilithium/day - I was able to farm up quite a lot of zen.)
...and actually, wouldn't they "prefer" a lower rate? The less AD you can get per Zen, the more Zen needs to be bought by the people trying to "buy" AD.
I have said it before and I will say it again.....BOP was a horrible idea. Obviously something had to be done because the market was flooded with T2 gear, but I think BOP was just a bad choice. They Should have limited the number of times a player could open a DD chest to once per event instead. This change would have cut the number of items on the AH 50-75% (2-4 chests per event down to 1) and the prices would have automatically gone up.
This game is F2P and it needs customers to survive. If you do not keep your customers happy they will leave. With that in mind, it is better to make huge changes in baby steps so the brunt isn't all felt in one blow. Limiting the number of chest people can open would have been a baby step. If the prices do not rise to where you want them to be you make small changes to the drop rates in the chests and continue to tinker from there is small increments. The prices of T2 gear was out of control for a while, it did not need to be fixed overnight.
The prices in the AH have gone up, but this one huge sweeping change caused many players to quit. I DO NOT HAVE THE FACTS TO BACK THIS STATEMENT....(because they will not release these facts to the public).....It is just my opinion. Of course, some of the increase in AH prices is due to the artificially inflated value because no one is going to sell an item for less than the salvage value. And now the BOP train keeps on rolling. Everything new introduced into the game comes with a BOP tag and it is really starting to make things a lot less fun (just another opinion). Hopefully in the next module they will add in a few BOE items that are decent so players will have something to trade again.
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beckylunaticMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 14,231Arc User
Of course, some of the increase in AH prices is due to the artificially inflated value because no one is going to sell an item for less than the salvage value.
Not strictly true. Certain items do still get regularly sold for less than their salvage value. I assume this is mostly because players regularly hitting their refining cap would rather get a smaller amount of refined diamonds from a sale, than a larger amount of unrefined diamonds they're unlikely to be able to access any time soon.
i used to do dungeons everyday before they implement BoP
after collecting all the sets that i want i stopped doing dungeons, nothing to do there anymore
most players that have all the sets probably stopped doing dungeons too bec it will just waste your time
Eh, the min/max on the scale is 50-500. It can go a lot lower than 350 (over in Star Trek, while I was playing actively, the rate was in the 90-130 range. Even with the lower refining rate - 8k dilithium/day - I was able to farm up quite a lot of zen.)
...and actually, wouldn't they "prefer" a lower rate? The less AD you can get per Zen, the more Zen needs to be bought by the people trying to "buy" AD.
It might be different in NWO there are two scales one for buying zen and one for selling zen the two are never even remotely close to each other. for the AD to zen Market, the only one I use they want a high exchange rate so you get less Zen for AD. Hopefully not enough to get that item, so you purchase Zen.
Not strictly true. Certain items do still get regularly sold for less than their salvage value. I assume this is mostly because players regularly hitting their refining cap would rather get a smaller amount of refined diamonds from a sale, than a larger amount of unrefined diamonds they're unlikely to be able to access any time soon.
i used to do dungeons everyday before they implement BoP
after collecting all the sets that i want i stopped doing dungeons, nothing to do there anymore
most players that have all the sets probably stopped doing dungeons too bec it will just waste your time
This reflects the ultimate truth for me.
-BoP may "force" some number of folks to run dungeons a small number of times.
-BoE "enabled" everyone to run dungeons an infinite number of times.
I'd rather enable my player base than force them into anything. A strategy that increases the choices for players is usually better than one the limits choice. (all other things being equal) I prefer BoE hands down.
This reflects the ultimate truth for me.
-BoP may "force" some number of folks to run dungeons a small number of times.
-BoE "enabled" everyone to run dungeons an infinite number of times.
I'd rather enable my player base than force them into anything. A strategy that increases the choices for players is usually better than one the limits choice. (all other things being equal) I prefer BoE hands down.
Very nicely said. I am Jarlsburg and I support this message!
This reflects the ultimate truth for me.
-BoP may "force" some number of folks to run dungeons a small number of times.
-BoE "enabled" everyone to run dungeons an infinite number of times.
I'd rather enable my player base than force them into anything. A strategy that increases the choices for players is usually better than one the limits choice. (all other things being equal) I prefer BoE hands down.
+1/10chars
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astariadodfMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
They Should have limited the number of times a player could open a DD chest to once per event instead. This change would have cut the number of items on the AH 50-75% (2-4 chests per event down to 1) and the prices would have automatically gone up.
And there you have the root of the issue. The exploiters. There isnt one epic that you can legitimately complete more than 1 time in an hour. Yes you could 'fake' it by preclearing and then do the second run in under an hour, but again. Cryptic is at fault for NOT making dungeons like the Foundry. Dont see anyone pick and choose the parts to completing a foundry, do we?
The other factor I see about BoP is the loot system is way out of whack. If the system was more generous, like near getting 1 usable piece by my toon each time I did the long and tedious work, it wouldn't be so bad. This game right now is over the top in trying to kill bosses normally without mechanics errors (HV set) so if a team does complete a boss- they should be rewarded. If you could know you would get what you need in a handful of runs, why would anyone pay a xxxxxxx farmer anything?
I have a degree in International Business... wonder when Game Developers will start to hire someone like me so that economies wont be FUBAR.
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thiefmacMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 9Arc User
This reflects the ultimate truth for me.
-BoP may "force" some number of folks to run dungeons a small number of times.
-BoE "enabled" everyone to run dungeons an infinite number of times.
This is it exactly. I am one of these players, currently I log in to restart my leadership tasks and pray while I wait for more content or a new class to play. I have 6 level 60 characters one who was leveled almost entirely through pray and leadership. BOP ruined the game for me giving me almost nothing to do. My entire guild is geared, nobody left to help. Hurry up and wait for EQNext or Elder Scrolls Online hoping for content
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pers3phoneBanned Users, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
I think BoP is simply a case of something that sounds good in theory but not in practice. I can understand that maybe some items should be BoP or better yet BoA but they've made far too many items BoP and many of these items have no reason to be BoP. Fashion items never need to be BoP. Items bought from the seal merchants don't need to be BoP. Although I will say maybe keeping the Purple seal items BoP isn't too bad of an idea but still, it isn't really a necessity. Event items shouldn't be BoP since you can end up with multiples that offer you nothing for your time and effort.
Then there is the downside to BoP. I used to help lower level player run dungeons so they can get their quest done and hopefully get a nice piece of blue gear to help them along. As such I'd end up with a lot of seals to buy items that I personally have no use for and using them to get more coins seem pointless since I rarely need to spend any coins. So I would use those seals to buy items for the players I helped or for guildies of the same class to help them out and now I cant do that at all. There is simply no good reason for anything non purple item to be BoP. Also when running T1 and T2 dungeons with guild mates if I got something they could use from the DD chest I'd give it to them, again, im no longer able to do this.
And in the end all BoP really does is widen the gap between free players and cash shoppers. I seriously doubt that anyone who can afford to sell zen and zen items for AD are really worried about the prices of AH items as much as the players that have to farm AD.
And of course all of this would be a moot point if farming gear from dungeons wasn't **** near impossible for the casual player.
It's the small things that can be most annoying. For me, it was getting two pantaloons on the same character and the fact that every time I get a redcap hat from MotH, it's for the wrong class (and replaces the skirmish AD award to boot!) Otherwise, I always thought that BOP was an attempt to get people to gear up from dungeons. However, they need to fix the dungeons in order to complete that.
"We have always been at war with Dread Vault" ~ Little Brother
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zebularMember, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 15,270Community Moderator
I guess it depends on what you're used to..... my first "real" MMO was WoW (vanilla through Cataclysm, with long breaks in between expansions). So, for me, having things bind - as well as having the majority of dungeon/raid "boss drops" be BoP - is the "normal" way these things work, and this idea of having nigh-everything unbound and sellable is strange.
(which, needless to say, makes me really confused by all the apocalyptic doom posts about things being BoP. But, then, I've never been an auction-wheeler-dealer in any MMO I've played. /shrug)
. . . . . Ultima Online was my first back in 1997 until 2004 and on/off until 2006. Bound items didn't appear until the latter years that I played it. I'd much rather enjoy a durability/repair feature than a Binding feature to keep economy and balance among the amount of items in game, which falls in line better with D&D than a binding mechanic.
As a new player with no level 60's prior to BoP I'm generally ok with it.
I don't understand;
1) Fashion items from events being BoP. BoA should be the worst case. (The only character I wanted pantaloons for got none, but she did collect 500k in rough AD (which is fine as she isn't level 50 yet).
2) People who don't play the game still coming to the forums to whine. (When I'm done I'm done and I leave it all behind.)
As to running dungeons I've rarely had problems getting a DD group together. But then I'm in a guild that has a lot of helpful folks and I'm actively helpful as much as I can be given my available time. Sure I don't always get a run, but then I live in an iff timezone so that's to be expected.
My advice is find people that you enjoy playing with and if they are in a guild ask to join, if they are not start shoping around guilds to find one that suits your needs. I certainly joined several guilds before settling in with the current one.
Obsidian Moonlight - Paladin Obsidian Oath - Warlock A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
I don't understand;
1) Fashion items from events being BoP. BoA should be the worst case.
I like the idea of event items being bound, it makes sure that special event items go to people who actually participated in the event. (Although yeah, BoA would be nice. Along with an account bank so that we could actually move BoA items among our alts.)
...hmm, now that I think about it, the last few Star Trek holiday events I participated in had some BoE rewards. I even stocked up on Winter Jackets last year, to either give to new alts or sell for a bit of cash. So yeah, I guess I can see some of the event prizes (the more minor ones) being unbound.
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bioshrikeMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,729Arc User
edited October 2013
What is needed, IMO, is a system whereby a player can work toward items they want via a more set process/path that doesn't require they get lucky w/ the RNG. The seals kind of do some of what I'm talking about, in that you get a predictable amount of seals per dungeon run, and can figure out how many such runs you'd need to gear up. What they don't offer, however, is a selection of gear to use. What I'd like to see is a system whereby running a dungeon and completing it successfully, unlocks a wider variety of items from the related seal vendor. Heck, these items don't even need to be parts of a set or anything - they could simply be purple items that use the prefix/suffix system that blues use - just with the stats adjusted for their rarity...
Another idea to allow for a better sense of progression, would be to allow seals to be used to upgrade an existing item, too...
<::::::::::::::)xxxo <::::::::::::::)xxxo <::::::::::::)xxxxxxxx(:::::::::::> oxxx(::::::::::::::> oxxx(::::::::::::::> "Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
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khimera906Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 898Arc User
Another idea to allow for a better sense of progression, would be to allow seals to be used to upgrade an existing item, too...
This could actually go well with BoP items you get from the DD chest. Instead of salvaging those items you could "extract their essence"...or something like that. Then, you could use that "essence" to upgrade your gear/weapons. This should be an alternative to salvaging, not a replacement for it.
I hate dancing with Lady Luck. She always steps on my toes.
You're "wrong" because in the current BiS gear, having HV+Ancients/Fomorians will allow you to be at 3100-ish Recovery without the need to enchant it anywhere. Hence, you can get more ArP/Crit/Power from your enchants.
Hm, that makes sense. That's really a "First World" issue I guess, since it's hardly like I can afford to upgrade my Rank 5-7s any higher anyway.
Seems more like a "Once I've gotten all my other slots full of Rank 7s and higher, this could allow for more relevant enchants". The only Recovery enchant I have is a Rank 7 in an Icon in my Ioun Stone.
Comments
Why would i in a t2 dungeon, be getting a chest drop of t1 set pieces? EVER?
I ran spellplague almost 23 times before i got my HV cap.
Slightly <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> if you ask me.
Same here... the probability is supposed to be "10% T2 pieces as indicated by the dungeon info"...
I think it is more 3/4%.
Because the HV was supposed to be difficult to acquire. And it got you to run the dungeon numerous times. how many times have you run it since?
They should be Bound to Account at least, if they aren't meant to hit the market.
Btw: anybody here played Runes of Magic and remembers the 2 varieties of unbinders ? I half expect to see them in Z-store, soon...
All bop did was add a huge artificial grind between gearing up a fresh 60 to start end game advancement. A gap was formed between the haves and have nots, making it far more tedious for the have nots to become the haves. This is of course to entice zen to ad conversion. You cannot fault a company for wanting to sell more zen as that is there business model, but those of us hoping for a little less obvious money grab for the sake of game balance have been left wanting.
People who came into the game on the otherside of the bop change (or the.more casual, rp types, etc who didnt hit end game before the change) are under the false impression that getting your mc/cn weapons and t2 set is end game progression, when in reality that is when you are geared and ready to begin the end game.
Bop made it harder for the less hardcore to play end game without zen purchase. And it made the end game grind for those of us who are "hard core" slower due to slow down in ad accumulation.
Eh, the min/max on the scale is 50-500. It can go a lot lower than 350 (over in Star Trek, while I was playing actively, the rate was in the 90-130 range. Even with the lower refining rate - 8k dilithium/day - I was able to farm up quite a lot of zen.)
...and actually, wouldn't they "prefer" a lower rate? The less AD you can get per Zen, the more Zen needs to be bought by the people trying to "buy" AD.
This game is F2P and it needs customers to survive. If you do not keep your customers happy they will leave. With that in mind, it is better to make huge changes in baby steps so the brunt isn't all felt in one blow. Limiting the number of chest people can open would have been a baby step. If the prices do not rise to where you want them to be you make small changes to the drop rates in the chests and continue to tinker from there is small increments. The prices of T2 gear was out of control for a while, it did not need to be fixed overnight.
The prices in the AH have gone up, but this one huge sweeping change caused many players to quit. I DO NOT HAVE THE FACTS TO BACK THIS STATEMENT....(because they will not release these facts to the public).....It is just my opinion. Of course, some of the increase in AH prices is due to the artificially inflated value because no one is going to sell an item for less than the salvage value. And now the BOP train keeps on rolling. Everything new introduced into the game comes with a BOP tag and it is really starting to make things a lot less fun (just another opinion). Hopefully in the next module they will add in a few BOE items that are decent so players will have something to trade again.
Not strictly true. Certain items do still get regularly sold for less than their salvage value. I assume this is mostly because players regularly hitting their refining cap would rather get a smaller amount of refined diamonds from a sale, than a larger amount of unrefined diamonds they're unlikely to be able to access any time soon.
Neverwinter Census 2017
All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
after collecting all the sets that i want i stopped doing dungeons, nothing to do there anymore
most players that have all the sets probably stopped doing dungeons too bec it will just waste your time
It might be different in NWO there are two scales one for buying zen and one for selling zen the two are never even remotely close to each other. for the AD to zen Market, the only one I use they want a high exchange rate so you get less Zen for AD. Hopefully not enough to get that item, so you purchase Zen.
True/10chars
This reflects the ultimate truth for me.
-BoP may "force" some number of folks to run dungeons a small number of times.
-BoE "enabled" everyone to run dungeons an infinite number of times.
I'd rather enable my player base than force them into anything. A strategy that increases the choices for players is usually better than one the limits choice. (all other things being equal) I prefer BoE hands down.
Very nicely said. I am Jarlsburg and I support this message!
+1/10chars
And there you have the root of the issue. The exploiters. There isnt one epic that you can legitimately complete more than 1 time in an hour. Yes you could 'fake' it by preclearing and then do the second run in under an hour, but again. Cryptic is at fault for NOT making dungeons like the Foundry. Dont see anyone pick and choose the parts to completing a foundry, do we?
The other factor I see about BoP is the loot system is way out of whack. If the system was more generous, like near getting 1 usable piece by my toon each time I did the long and tedious work, it wouldn't be so bad. This game right now is over the top in trying to kill bosses normally without mechanics errors (HV set) so if a team does complete a boss- they should be rewarded. If you could know you would get what you need in a handful of runs, why would anyone pay a xxxxxxx farmer anything?
I have a degree in International Business... wonder when Game Developers will start to hire someone like me so that economies wont be FUBAR.
This is it exactly. I am one of these players, currently I log in to restart my leadership tasks and pray while I wait for more content or a new class to play. I have 6 level 60 characters one who was leveled almost entirely through pray and leadership. BOP ruined the game for me giving me almost nothing to do. My entire guild is geared, nobody left to help. Hurry up and wait for EQNext or Elder Scrolls Online hoping for content
Exactly, that's why I put the word wrong inside "...", whatever their English name is
Then there is the downside to BoP. I used to help lower level player run dungeons so they can get their quest done and hopefully get a nice piece of blue gear to help them along. As such I'd end up with a lot of seals to buy items that I personally have no use for and using them to get more coins seem pointless since I rarely need to spend any coins. So I would use those seals to buy items for the players I helped or for guildies of the same class to help them out and now I cant do that at all. There is simply no good reason for anything non purple item to be BoP. Also when running T1 and T2 dungeons with guild mates if I got something they could use from the DD chest I'd give it to them, again, im no longer able to do this.
And in the end all BoP really does is widen the gap between free players and cash shoppers. I seriously doubt that anyone who can afford to sell zen and zen items for AD are really worried about the prices of AH items as much as the players that have to farm AD.
And of course all of this would be a moot point if farming gear from dungeons wasn't **** near impossible for the casual player.
[ Support Center • Rules & Policies and Guidelines • ARC ToS • Guild Recruitment Guidelines | FR DM Since 1993 ]
I don't understand;
1) Fashion items from events being BoP. BoA should be the worst case. (The only character I wanted pantaloons for got none, but she did collect 500k in rough AD (which is fine as she isn't level 50 yet).
2) People who don't play the game still coming to the forums to whine. (When I'm done I'm done and I leave it all behind.)
As to running dungeons I've rarely had problems getting a DD group together. But then I'm in a guild that has a lot of helpful folks and I'm actively helpful as much as I can be given my available time. Sure I don't always get a run, but then I live in an iff timezone so that's to be expected.
My advice is find people that you enjoy playing with and if they are in a guild ask to join, if they are not start shoping around guilds to find one that suits your needs. I certainly joined several guilds before settling in with the current one.
Obsidian Oath - Warlock
A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
I like the idea of event items being bound, it makes sure that special event items go to people who actually participated in the event. (Although yeah, BoA would be nice. Along with an account bank so that we could actually move BoA items among our alts.)
...hmm, now that I think about it, the last few Star Trek holiday events I participated in had some BoE rewards. I even stocked up on Winter Jackets last year, to either give to new alts or sell for a bit of cash. So yeah, I guess I can see some of the event prizes (the more minor ones) being unbound.
Another idea to allow for a better sense of progression, would be to allow seals to be used to upgrade an existing item, too...
"Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark
Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
Hm, that makes sense. That's really a "First World" issue I guess, since it's hardly like I can afford to upgrade my Rank 5-7s any higher anyway.
Seems more like a "Once I've gotten all my other slots full of Rank 7s and higher, this could allow for more relevant enchants". The only Recovery enchant I have is a Rank 7 in an Icon in my Ioun Stone.