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High Deflect -- Character sheet & Vid inside
munkey81
Member Posts: 1,322 Arc User
Updated With New Video -- Regen/Deflect/Lifesteal Set up
Had a lot of PM's lately asking about my gear so here is a link to my character sheet.
Not really sure why the health doesn't show correctly. But its just shy over 26k health.
Crit chance is 49%
Lifesteal is 10%
Deflection is 41.8%
Dmg Reduction is 24.7%
ArP is 16.9%
A lot of folks have questioned the damage out put of a TR with high deflect and I can tell you its not an issue.
I am using a Greater Vorpal, but even when I was using a normal Vorpal(which is easily affordable)the damage output is still incredible.
I chose to make a high deflect build because of my play style.
I don't like the perma stealth way of playing. 80% of the time I am out of stealth and in combat, using my stealth strategically for high damage output or safety. Having high deflect and that minimal lifesteal together makes for a very, very tanky high damage TR capable of fighting 3-4 at a time.
Of course everything is situational. Having high deflect doesn't mean you should start trying to face tank everyone, you should still stick and move.
But I absolutely love it, and I get tells constantly from low and high end players telling me how aggravating it is fighting me because they rarely can ever land a good hit.
Heres a video showcasing the damage out put and survivability of my TR.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=K7XzXyGUS0Q
Video Added
This video is also a random solo Q. The opposing team was all 11k+gs
Another great example of how deflect fairs In PvP, as well as the lifesteal I chose to add into my gear.
In the video I fight 4-5 people back to back all because of high deflect and lifesteal.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=OeZvyi288Zc
Added Video with Regen/Deflect/Lifesteal Set up
This is a video solo Q'ing VS a premade. Pretty fun match, get to see how well the regen and deflect/lifesteal work together.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=pXxeQucpTy8
Had a lot of PM's lately asking about my gear so here is a link to my character sheet.
Not really sure why the health doesn't show correctly. But its just shy over 26k health.
Crit chance is 49%
Lifesteal is 10%
Deflection is 41.8%
Dmg Reduction is 24.7%
ArP is 16.9%
A lot of folks have questioned the damage out put of a TR with high deflect and I can tell you its not an issue.
I am using a Greater Vorpal, but even when I was using a normal Vorpal(which is easily affordable)the damage output is still incredible.
I chose to make a high deflect build because of my play style.
I don't like the perma stealth way of playing. 80% of the time I am out of stealth and in combat, using my stealth strategically for high damage output or safety. Having high deflect and that minimal lifesteal together makes for a very, very tanky high damage TR capable of fighting 3-4 at a time.
Of course everything is situational. Having high deflect doesn't mean you should start trying to face tank everyone, you should still stick and move.
But I absolutely love it, and I get tells constantly from low and high end players telling me how aggravating it is fighting me because they rarely can ever land a good hit.
Heres a video showcasing the damage out put and survivability of my TR.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=K7XzXyGUS0Q
Video Added
This video is also a random solo Q. The opposing team was all 11k+gs
Another great example of how deflect fairs In PvP, as well as the lifesteal I chose to add into my gear.
In the video I fight 4-5 people back to back all because of high deflect and lifesteal.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=OeZvyi288Zc
Added Video with Regen/Deflect/Lifesteal Set up
This is a video solo Q'ing VS a premade. Pretty fun match, get to see how well the regen and deflect/lifesteal work together.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=pXxeQucpTy8
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Thanks for sharing.
38% is pretty excellent. I was around there before I got my rank 8 Silverys.
I highly recommend you to make sure you also get your damage reduction to ATLEAST 20% before you start stacking deflect.
I've gone back and fourth with different gear many many times.
Going from straight defense with 0 deflect, to straight deflect with 0 defense, to a complete 50/50 ratio, and I've come to the conclusion not by numbers, but by "feel" of hundreds of pvp matches that 20-25%dmg reduction is all you need, the rest stacked into Deflect is going to be your best gear set for a tanky build.
This is for a def/deflect set up remember. Regen/Deflect, or Rege/Defense is going to be totally different, and I have 0 knowledge or testing on that as I don't run any sort of regen.
I will get the off-gear, and I will stick to T1 pvp (good ArmPen) , enchant with deflect and communicate my results. Probably in Guild chat with my CW
Go to your own character sheet and then in the URL address replace your character name and handle with his: "Alysin Chains@munkey81".
http://nwcalc.com/tr?b=cn4:2hwcg:5m9s,19i3iij:60000:6u000:b0zz1&h=0
I made a feats real quick of what I'm using. Weapon mastery 3/3 and Critical Teamwork 5/5 give an additional 8% total of Crit chance.
As well as gear you are wearing of course.
I didn't chose any powers in that calculator..look at the feats
Also great vid, a very very good reference to all those rogues out there struggling in PVP skillwise.
Edit: Not a fan of stealth Rogues myself.. gameplay just doesn't suit, prefer raw and straightforward burst.
Edit: Did u try how Regen would get along with the Deflect build?
I recently changed up my gear set actually.
Until a fiew weeks ago I was using sin/master 2/2 gear because that is what I had, and I made it work.
Now I am using the GG Chest and helm(450lifesteal), and the Illiyanbruen gloves/boots(450power).
The Illiyanbruen set for a 2 piece, is better in all stats then that of sin/master is the reason for me changing that out.
I fealt the GG 2/2 was better over all then that of ***/master for what I was using it for.
Many people would say having the full set is the best for the 4 piece bonus, and they may be right. Right now I don't have all the pieces anyway so not able to see, I will get them eventually and test it out.
A big part though for me chosing to use 2 2/2, is the bonus's. I wanted the lifesteal bonus, and I didn't want to drop my power below 3k. So for me it was a no brainer.
It was a massive noticeable difference honestly adding in that GG 2/2 piece. I had almost zero lifesteal before, now its sitting just over 1200, and I looooove it. It helps to make up for NOT having any Regen. Lifesteal with high deflect is amazing.
In all honesty I don't feel right calling the build I use, a "deflect" build.
I started off using different feats as I leveled up, and was a scoundrel build.
I adjusted my feats and stats to the way I played. I have never looked at the builds section, but I'm pretty sure my build is nothing special,..pretty standard for Executioner I think maybe minus some variances.
What is great about this build however, is the only difference from PvP, and PvE is just the gear set.
Up until about a month and a half ago I didn't change anything in my gear. I ran my standard PvE set, and did quite well.
My reason for wanting to start changing things up, is I play a lot of premades, and I was having trouble holding points against skilled Sent GWF's because I don't run a perma stealth type build.
So I started messing around with maxing defense, then maxing deflect, then going 50/50, then came to find out I was the strongest by having atleast 20%damage reduction, then maxed Deflect as much as I possibly could. Then I added in the GG 2/2 set, and with the bonus got my lifesteal up to 1200ish without sacrificing any of the stats I fealt were important and I feel it almost doubled my tankiness and survivability.
Many people believe that a high deflect TR does terrible damage because we have to sacrifice most of our offensive stats to achieve it. But I have countless videos, against BiS players in premades, and pugs showing that is not the case. I still get pm's from people almost daily complaining at me and calling me a hacker for the amount of damage I do. Which of course is silly because that is not true, and there are definitely a lot better TR's out there doing much more damage.
I also get asked about the Armor Pen, or lack of, quite often.
What you have to remember is my build, my stat selection and ability roll selection was all done not by min/maxing or using Math, but just by how it "fealt" in battle, and how I play my character. Could someone give me advice on better gear, or stat prioritization by using math? Probably..however, it seems like many aspects of this game don't quite follow the math like they should anyhow. I didn't just throw this gear together, it took me quite some time and hundreds of hundreds of PvP matches to come to what I have now and what suits me the best with my build and playstyle.
I have fought against 1 vs 1 arguably some of the best of the best of each class in this game and won. Some stacking 7Gtenes, some not. I had the most trouble against the skilled TR's using the Tene build and perma stealth, for obvious reasons. But I still came out on top quite often. With the upcoming changes to Tenes, depending on how they factor in defensive properties, my TR is not going to have any issues anymore with Tene users. We will absolutely be on an even playing field
As far as beginning stat rolls. I'm honestly not sure atm. I know I went with the highest of str and dex, with dex being the highest. Putting points only into Dex and Str from there on.
Not at all..thx buddy
If your build is about survive ability, wouldn't it be more efficient to use shadow strike or maybe impossible to catch?
ITC gives 100% deflect, i think that would go better interms of survive ability
Id post my char. Sheet but im on my phone atm but off the top of ky head:
Full Sinister Shade
Ancient Main/Offy
Ancient Fugitive Rings
Ancient Brawlers Necklace
Ancient Necomancers Belt
Gemmed Shirt/Pants
20str 25dex 17cha Drow
3740pow
3066crit
1275def
2313deflect
1345armpen
http://gateway.playneverwinter.com/#char(Nmemnonia@pipetstebe)/charactersheet
I use Dazing because of the cone affect, the extremely high damage and the stun.
I most definitely switch it out for ItC depending on how the match is playing out.
There is no other combo that is more deadly then dazing>lashing>impact with my build. Extremely effective, extremely deadly.
Shadow strike really wouldn't do much for me honestly. I get much more use out of Dazing then I ever would Shadow Strike.
My set up everytime I go into PvP is always dazing, impact, lashing, DF/CoS, First Strike and Infiltrators. I'll switch out Dazing for ItC or PoB depending on how the match is playing out.
@pipe. Awesome man, our stats are very similar. Havent met many rogues who run a deflect type set up. Starting to see more and more lately though.
Cheers!
I am really eager to get my boons now to push deflect above 40% and of course to get the 5th boon Fey Thistle, which will really help to maximize damage with 400 damage on every deflect.
At first I ran with two Seal of the Executioner rings however they have offence slots. I heard there are others with defense slots, do you know if this is correct? I think the added regeneration helps a lot with survivability and I could still manage above 40% deflect.
I used to use vorpal also however I am finding more success with Greater Plague Fire slotted. I think this helps my damage overall due to the small amount of Armour Penetration I have. Also, I am always slotting Path of the Blade and it never crits so I lose the advantage of Vorpal.
I have slotted Barkshield also which has been hilarious. I have deflected many a Lashing Blade with the Barkshield taking the rest of the damage. The few times this has happened the enemy rogue has paused for a moment and I can only imagine the look on the players face in RL.
Is there any more tactics you can share with your experience? In most PVP matches I top the assisted kills because of POB and slot ITC and Impact Shot or Shadow Strike. Sometimes when I can allow my ego to sit back I focus on defending points against GF's and GWF's. To do this I slot Shadow Strike or Dazing Strike, Smoke Bomb and ITC and can hold for a long time with my regen rings.
Anyway I can't wait to see where this thread leads.
Oh side note, imagine if Tene's do get nerfed and can no longer bypass deflect...... I'm not one for nerf's but to be honest I'm kind of excited.
I like it however because I am not using Vorpal and like your idea of Dazing Strike as a main stay I am thinking of changing to this http://nwcalc.com/tr?b=cn4:2hwcg:5m9s,13j3ilj:bu0uv:6uu00:60000&h=1
My thinking is with First Strike, opening with Dazing Strike will do 35% additional damage with a 35% chance of doing 55% additional damage from stealth (Unerring Ambush Feat) or a 50% chance (if I can maintain this %) to crit for 110% extra damage? (not sure if that's right I'm thinking Critical Severity is 75% added damage?)
Also with these feats I will have an overall 85% chance with every attack (Critical Chance + Nimble Blade Feat) to do at least 20% extra damage.
Anyway, just throwing it all out there, would love to hear some feedback.
So looking at your feats currently. Now this is MY opinion of course, but I think you have quite a fiew wasted points in there. I'm not exactly sure which type of build you are going for?
Soundrel Training: I've never been much a fan of this, its 3 points and other then the opener from stealth, In my experience we generally are almost always targeted.
Swift Footwork: I personally go for what maximizes my damage the most, so for me this is a bad point spent, and 2% is so small for that type of benefit.
If you want more damage, sorry..more Sustained Damage, I would redirect those points to disciple of strength 3/3. 6%more bonus damage constantly is huge.
You have 5/5 in Sneaky Stabber, telling me you are using Gloaming Cut. But you have the majority of your points in the Executioner build, which is not stealth based by any means.
Basically what I am seeing from your first build. Is you are trying to run a hybrid, but you are missing out on both of the most important feats in both trees.
Thrill of the Kill: I wish they would take this feat completely out of the TR's arsenal, I think its a total piece of <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>. 5 points, for 1% of our AP on killing blow. TR's generally arent getting many killing blows, PvP a little differant yes, but not worth wasting 5 points, and yah some in PvE, but 9 out of 10 times in PvE dungeons the GF and CW will be taking all the killing blows.
I like your second build much better. However, I recommend taking points out of cunning stalker completely as even with those benefits to gaining AP, we arent ever relying on Dailys, and we wont be gaining AP that much faster anyway. In MY personal opinion, wasting any points for us on gaining AP is a waste.
I would put those 5 points into Mocking Knave.
Remember though buddy everyones playstyle is differant. Looking at your build I cant help but move points around to how I personally would play it.
Definately dont be the guy that switches his spec every couple days. If you change your spec and you hate it, dont change it right away. Keep using it, get better with it, and FULLY understand why you THINK you dont like it.
I also recommend to everyone NOT to look at the build sections, and copy anyones builds. What you have to remember is the people that made those builds and have them stickied, have gone over many, many differant builds to reach that particular build, that fit THEM. I see so many people who hit 60, go to the forums..Pick a build that many people say is great, use it..and have terrible luck with it.
Those builds are good guidlines, and eventually you may pick that exact build. But you should definately think for yourself at the beginning, find what suits you, and your own playstyle. What works for other people, may not work for you.
I agree 100% regarding finding your own build.....I have tried the cookie cutter examples on toons once I reached 60 and found more often it didn't seem to feel right. You suggest Mocking Naive instead of sneaky stabber but that would require 15 points in Scoundrel wouldn't it? I have often wondered if there was a way to miss a level if you already leveled a different path...Is there? I also took sneaky stabber to experiment with increased stealth and it was after speed swindle....which I thought sounded really good. Since making my toon I have had people tell me that speed swindle has a very short effect duration, anyone have an opinion on this skill?
I have 5 points in Action Advantage that I am thinking of relocating since I really don't use my dailies that often.....not sure what kinda AP generation loss that would equate to...Seems like most people are not concerned with that skill. I know it was found to really suck for CW's. Alysin....I have also wondered about scoundrel training vs disciple of strength.....I agree that 6% all the time might be better than situational 6%, however.....one skill says it increases the skills damage the other only increases the bonus from strength. Has there been any testing on this?
Anyways....overall I like my build and hate that I don't have a few more points to spend because I don't really want to give up any of my feats....I am just milling over minor changes:) Currently only using a L60 weapon below CN or MC stuff.....no enchant. I can only imagine how I will be when I get that top tier weapon and put a shard in it:) LoL:)
Id say pick how you want to play then base your feats on that... like if your planing on being semi stealth pick feats that will up your dps or game play on thator Iif your planing on using your stealth for defense only then pick more dps feats. Ive went with str dex for ability stats and I know ill get a lot of deflect from gear/enchants so I went with a ton of dps feats like the deciple of str to increase my dps.
A few weeks ago, I decided to make a PvP TR that would be based around deflection. I saw this post and used it as a guideline (except I rolled a human, because yeah). However, when I reached lvl 20, I decided that I wanted to go massive regen and decent deflect instead (it was funny watching people try to kill me in low lvl pvp
Anyways, Alysin, I couldn't help but notice that your char sheet (as of today) shows you with regen items and a lot less deflection. I'm assuming this is what you're actually currently wearing (unless the gateway is demented and evil or something). I might be asking this too soon since you may not have had time to adequately test the spec, but how is it working out for you so far? I still haven't the had time nor the resources to get a large amount of deflect, so I was wondering if I should continue pursuing a regen/deflect hybrid or not. Thanks!
P.S. In honor of kolatmaster: :cool:
I would love to let everyone know about this and make it common knowledge so people can have more options, but when good, unique builds like this become popular, nerfs start taking place
**Nice pvp guide btw
I personally don't see this spec as game-breaking or unbalanced as other specs out there for other classes. Of course, if it does become popular enough, as godlysoul1 said, something will change to weaken it. This actually reminds me of an earlier thought process. Clearly, deflection was designed to be more useful to TRs, with the extra deflection severity and all. So, in my eyes, I don't see stacking deflection as playing the class in a way it was not designed for. It's taking advantage of a class strength. The only problem is how people will react to a hard-hitting class somehow having strong survivability. We'll just have to wait and see. I managed to imagine this spec before actually seeing this post (though it really helped as a good reference to follow after the fact) and I can see others also using it. If TRs start facerolling PvP because they're deflecting everything, expect a nerf.
I am liking the deflect/regen hybrid. :cool:
Side note: I want to see a supertanky, 2.5k defense/1.4k deflect/1.3k regen/35k hp TR now.
What I have now,
9% regen, 10% life steal, 39% deflect, 15% armour pen and 20% defence.
What I want,
10% regen, 10% life steal, 40% deflect, 25% armour pen and 25% defence.
The trick so far is to forgo critical chance altogether and pump every other stat. I have also replaced some good T2 gear for blue gear which gives far better stats but in turn does not cover many. I think I will eventually be in the 30% crit chance bracket to achieve the above. This is a little strange considering crit chance is what the rogue is all about, however my main damage is from lashing (the other two encounters are usually defensive) and it has an auto crit from stealth regardless of my crit chance. Because of this I can still slot vorpal and crit for the same damage with lashing as any tr.
I have not taken executioner path but have taken half of the sab and scoundrel paths. Whilst I miss out on the extra 25% critical severity from executioner and a few other advantages from this path, I gain extra damage feats from the other paths and these are more consistent and less situational IMO.
I was scared at first to loose crit chance however based on my experience with high deflect chance it still comes down to the same thing..... chance.
I have thrown 8 daggers and crit twice with 50% crit chance and I have also been smashed without deflecting more than 1 of a barrage of attacks with 40% deflect.
I will try post some pics of my gear when I'm off mobile. This is really fun theory crafting however I have not been playing long and feel as though I'm a learner driver in a very powerful vehicle.
I don't know if I'll ever get the time to get the 5th boon which deals 400 damage on every deflect but I have a feeling that with this the build can become a real hindrance to fight against.
Now don't take this the wrong way please, but before the servers were merged. I knew all the server best players in PvP, and beat all of them. Not saying I AM the best, just that I knew, fought, and could beat the best. So I built my gear around the people I frequently ran into, in PvP, that gave me a hard time. My entire reason for making a deflect set and testing it out, was because I more often then not was 1 vs 1'ing against very well played Sent GWF's contesting for nodes during premades. I needed something to counter them, because I was a dps spec, not perma, and I don't use tenebrous enchants.
Now, with the server merge, its obvious the selection so to speak of good players is a lot more then it used to be, and I'm finding more and more people that are challenging me greatly, and forcing me to re-think my abilities I choose, and gear I decide to wear.
Which brings me to my current gear. If you have looked at my character sheet recently I'm now wearing some regen gear, and my Deflect %, and damage resistance has dropped. I was just over 41% deflect and 24%dmg resistance. Now I am sitting at 35% deflect, and 19% dmg resistance. BUT, I now have 10%regen, and 10%lifesteal.
I can honestly say that I am now twice as strong as I was before. Anything my lesser % deflect is lacking, is by far made up for with the regen. I am still out of town working and using my phone for internet and playing on my laptop so I cant make any videos. But I will definitely be making some new videos showing this new gear set I am using. It is literally like night and day difference.
Damage hasn't changed, but survivability has increased I would say 100%.
Don't get me wrong, having pure deflect and defense is still absolutely amazing, I have videos proving that. BUT, if you want to compete in the top level as a TR, you pretty much HAVE to have regen. Or you are going to get wasted in premades against other TR's that do. I can first hand say that now that I have experience with it. I'm not perfect by any means, and there are many TR's better then me. Having regen has saved me quite a fiew times from my mistakes that otherwise would have cost me a death against people who have out played me in certain situations.
End State: In my opinion, no matter which build you decide to use, Deflect/Regen/Lifesteal is the best Trio of stats you are looking for when building a PvP set for TR's in end game PvP.
Ur right bout that since i took the Regen on myself helped me out a lot coy i aint usin pots but im low lvl 52 so my equipment ist still green and blue but hoping to get it higher on 60 and go for defflect+regen+life steal as much as possible without loosing crit and dmg, will be a hard time but ill take it easy no need to rush things
My current char like i said still noobish http://gateway.playneverwinter.com/#char(Davud@omuhao)/charactersheet and aint the best PVPer but trying to lean from my mistakes...
As long as i have fun doesnt matter if die 0 or 50 times in a match...
Have you changed your abilities from Dazing/Impact/Lashing? Or are the abilities changed a little differently for the situation? Or am I just reading in too closely to the sentence?
Thanks!
My normal set up has always been Dazing, lashing impact. Dazing has always been situational for me though.
Using Dazing in Premades is generally not a good idea. Because "my" main job as a TR in premades is back capping, and using Dazing against a skilled TR is usually just going to end up getting you killed.
So if I am playing against skilled players, I will use ItC, Impact, Lashing. Depending on who, and which class I end up fighting more in the match, I will switch out lashing for Shadow Strike, or Path of Blades to snuff out other TR's.
Every fight for me is situational honestly. I might change my abilities 3 or 4 times, sometimes more, sometimes not at all...all very dependent on who I am fighting the most in the match.
It is very important to know your Class as a whole, to be viable in end game PvP. Being good with 1 set of abilities is just fine, and common. But being versatile, and being extremely skilled, with any set up is what is going to bring you among the ranks of the top players in PvP in my opinion.