yes, you surely did
and yes, play style defines success by most means, say 90%, but min-maxing the remaining 10% is still not a bad idea.
i myself only played DDO before (and only a cleric to lvl 12), so i am not that experienced (i got a CW to lvl 60 now, to be added to the experience), but for performing *ok* a basic skill for video games plus a curiosity to learn how things work is enough for me
didn't assume that CON is so valuable in PvP, had no idea about how regeneration works, until now…
i did already read laments, that halflings are best for PvP, no matter what class you play. well, there might be some exceptions to the rule, but people already recommended me to go for a halfling cleric - just because in PvP the difference is big while in PvE it does not matter much how your other stats look like…
about the math - maybe i can explain a bit: the relative percentage is maybe better explained the following way. i now always speak of factors, so 1% more damage to a factor of 1.01 in damage increase, or better, 101/100. if you start with 14 STR (factor 1.04) and want to know the bonus at lvl 60 (and you pushed STR to 20, i.e., factor 1.1), then you can easily calculate it as 110%=110/100.
the latter can be expressed as 110/109 * 109/108 * 108/107 * 107/106 * 106/105 * 105/104 * 104/100. the rightmost term factor is what you start with. all factors together are 110/100 as all those nominators and denominators cancel themselves out. if you look closely, the two factors to the right is 105/100, the bonus you have at lvl 10. the 3 rightmost together are 106/100, your bonus at lvl 20. so, at lvl 20, you are by 106/105 better than you were at lvl 10, your *relative* increase in power from lvl 10 to lvl 20 (w.r.t. STR) is 106/105 - which is not 101/100, i.e., not a 1% increase in power. if your relative power increase would be 1% always, at lvl 60 your bonus damage should be 1.01^10, which is 1.1046 or about 10.46% power increase.
=> 1% more is not always 1% more. mathematically it is much easier to calculate with those relative power increases and it is much less confusing than what we got taught at school about percentages.
one example is: if you lose 50% of your money with trading and then win 50% you do not end up with your initial amount. you end up with 75% of it. because losing 50% corresponds to a factor of 0.5 and winning to 1.5, i.e., the factor of the second one is not outweighed by the first. one always needs to be careful what the *base* is to which those percentages regard to.
coming back to NWO: if you already know your gear+starting stats+lvl up 30&60 will give you 50% crit, then pushing DEX 4 times during lvl ups changes your crit bonus from 50% to 54%. the power gain (not damage, just the amount of crits you cause) in comparison of never pushing your DEX is 154/150, roughly 1.0267. by pushing DEX you will not gain 4% more critical hits *in comparison* to not pushing DEX. the damage output increase caused by crits does only rise by 2.67%.
for deflect, each point is beneficial. if deflect severity would be 100%, then if you would have 90% deflect and you can pump CHA by one point, your survivability does not increase by 1% - it increases by (roughly) 11%! because if enemies need to land 10 hits to kill you before, they need to strike 100 times. with 91% deflect they need to strike about 111 times, as only 9% of 111 strikes corresponds to about 10 direct hits.
in all those calculations i do assume that NWO calculates its damage bonuses with the formula (1+%from STR)* … and whether an attack truly hits by (1 - %deflect).
there is an easy mathematical way to make all those percentage increases (or decreases) be relative, but … that part i rather omit, becomes truly a bit technical then
and maybe some of their devs read this post and want to hire me now for my wisdom :P
Kris/monk/Aeflyn....
My hafling is full radiants HP...and 0 deflect enchants
With that i have 39. deflect..with some basic buffs..41 % deflect.
But i always feal that it failds me.
Should i quit my x5 HP radiant Hp..and go back to 52 % deflect ??
Because i can have 2600 deflect..if i sacriface radiants.
I dont feal that 40% deflect helps me much..actualy failds me much :S
Atm my hp is like 31 000 -32 000 with radiants...( with campfire only 13 constitution).
If i sacriface all radiants .il get 52% + deflect and like umm...26-27 000 HP...would be a fair trade ?/..lose like 4000 Hp +..and gain 52 % deflect..umm
Maybe i have bad luck...but 40% just wont work for me.
Kris/monk/Aeflyn....
My hafling is full radiants HP...and 0 deflect enchants
With that i have 39. deflect..with some basic buffs..41 % deflect.
But i always feal that it failds me.
Should i quit my x5 HP radiant Hp..and go back to 52 % deflect ??
Because i can have 2600 deflect..if i sacriface radiants.
I dont feal that 40% deflect helps me much..actualy failds me much :S
Atm my hp is like 31 000 -32 000 with radiants...( with campfire only 13 constitution).
If i sacriface all radiants .il get 52% + deflect and like umm...26-27 000 HP...would be a fair trade ?/..lose like 4000 Hp +..and gain 52 % deflect..umm
Maybe i have bad luck...but 40% just wont work for me.
This % is without Capree.
Hmm loosing Hp..less reg
I've changed a lot since this thread was made.
I am curious what your regen is, if at all with that much deflect?
I've found that Health and Regen for a PvP TR are the best ways to go. Naturally having good deflect of course is only going to help. I don't spec, or build into Deflect anymore. Health and Regen are constant, and better by far.
I am curious what your regen is, if at all with that much deflect?
I've found that Health and Regen for a PvP TR are the best ways to go. Naturally having good deflect of course is only going to help. I don't spec, or build into Deflect anymore. Health and Regen are constant, and better by far.
please watch this>>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P5XliNcu9SQ and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=30Nq7uJSe1k !!Let me know about your opinion or have u seen any tr can still do like that since module 2 came out..if yes i would nt think anyone can live long in pvp..or mayb im just a newbie so this is my opinion only..so pls anyone can let me know
And can anyone point out what race is that curse guy using?.i know kalkyon rogue is using wood elf race but what about that curse?It seems to me that his race is hafling or am i wrong? Does anyone know?
And i am curious why tr need to up dex/str and not dex/cha? Sorry for too many question asking can someone experience ansser all my above question? I will be very appreciated...thank alot
And i am curious why tr need to up dex/str and not dex/cha? Sorry for too many question asking can someone experience ansser all my above question? I will be very appreciated...thank alot
STR is an additive and passive damage increase.
CHA is a multiplicative and active damage increase. The latter is because it requires either Stealth or in-combat positioning. There are also further complications with CHA/Combat Advantage because sometimes feats or Powers do not benefit from extra bonuses to it.
So, STR gives a far larger damage increase and it is more flexible in builds because it is "always on".
That said, CHA also provides a survival bonus due to Deflection, for which it is twice as effective as DEX. So, it cannot be so easily dismissed in PvP.
Also, CON is an often underrated stat. It is (highly) useful, efficient (each point is 2% HP) and effective for both survival and offense in certain builds and contexts, e.g. premades.
HP/Regen should deffinitely be the higher priority. That being said I still add the 3/3 for deflection in my feats (cant remember name). However, in my ability score i go all Con and Cha. I'm a huge believer in Combat advantage, and i think that coupled with 1 full % in Def. outways the Dex stat. So even with just the feat, Cha, and the boon i maintain about 26-27% def. As far as defensive enchantments go, Radiant for sure.
"If you don't know who I am, then maybe your best course would be to tread lightly" -- Walter White
I personally went with Con/Cha and like it very much.
what the most optimal deflect and is fey thistle pretty good with a 30% deflection rating
Gang Busters PvP Guild Recruiting When Mod 6 goes live Pm Me for more Info If you have any Paladin question Message Me and i will get back to you ASAP
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
You mentioned in the Blacksheep's bilethorn thread that you do better dmg with bilethorn than vorpal, I asked you about it there but seems you haven't noticed it. So gonna ask here it again, mind elaborating how can you do more dmg with bile than vorpal in pve? Thanks in advance
Check the decreasing population stats in the lastest 2 months for this game and you will understand it.
You need only watch a few of his videos to realize his capabilities. In order to maximize your success in pvp you must be aware of your enemies cooldowns, positioning, and patern. Self awareness of your own cooldowns takes great concentration alone, but blacksheep makes few mistakes and is undoubtedly skilled in offensive timing and has impecable defensive play. I dont know him, so its of no use to me to fan his already inflated ego. However, i do appreciate a highly skilled gamer, especially when it relates to my primary class. Most could benefit from watching some of his videos, as they are fundamentally sound and would benefit any rogue wishing to maximize their abilities on the pvp field.
I do disagree with his stance on deflect in this particular thread. While i do agree that defensive enchantments should be slotted with HP, I feel that the deflect benefits from heroic feats, boons, and Cha can make quite a difference. Especially if a score of 25+ is obtained without slotting.
While the population may have decreased the TR class has not.
"If you don't know who I am, then maybe your best course would be to tread lightly" -- Walter White
I haven't had time to read through the entirety of the thread, but do you have an update for Mod 2? I see you changed from a G. Vorpal to a P. Bilethorn. Are your build stats still the same as you originally posted? I typically use a perma-stealth, but I've been looking for a nice change from that.
Dragon Server
Ragnos Fireborn - 18.7k GWF Half-Elf Eva Darkblood - 13.8k TR Elf Venger Force of Evil - 13.7k CW Tiefling Azaghal Belegost - 16.5k GF Dwarf Drak'ar - 13.3k HR Drow Roghthar Darkspawn - 11.5k SW Human
What equipment did you use to get to 30-40% deflection? I'm finding it hard to get much above 10%. I'm only using rank 6 silveries currently. Is the trick just to upgrade the enchantments?
What equipment did you use to get to 30-40% deflection? I'm finding it hard to get much above 10%. I'm only using rank 6 silveries currently. Is the trick just to upgrade the enchantments?
Race, feats, powers and high dex/cha get you there.
To be more precise:
Race: Halfling for the 3% deflect chance racial bonus
Feats: Lucky Skirmisher 3/3 for an additional 3% deflect chance
Powers: Class ability Skillful Infiltrator 3/3 for an additional 3% deflect chance
Stats: Dex - .5% for each point over 10 | Cha - 1% for each point over 10, so the max you can achieve here (if you pick +2dex and +2cha) is 16+2 dex and 16+2 cha for 8*.5 + 8*1 = 12% deflection chance
This allows you to get a total maximum of 3+3+3+12 = 21% deflection chance without any gear and base values (what's the TR's base deflection chance?) and before further distributing stat points. You could acquire another 9% if you go full dex/cha for a total bonus of 30%. Personally, however, I'd go for some points in con in the initial roll as well (14 in my case) as HP synergizes just too well with regen and vice versa. Top that off with 2,000 deflect for an extra 13.6%* and you'll sit at + 43,6% deflection (which I personally wouldn't strive for, though ).
You need only watch a few of his videos to realize his capabilities. In order to maximize your success in pvp you must be aware of your enemies cooldowns, positioning, and patern. Self awareness of your own cooldowns takes great concentration alone, but blacksheep makes few mistakes and is undoubtedly skilled in offensive timing and has impecable defensive play. I dont know him, so its of no use to me to fan his already inflated ego. However, i do appreciate a highly skilled gamer, especially when it relates to my primary class. Most could benefit from watching some of his videos, as they are fundamentally sound and would benefit any rogue wishing to maximize their abilities on the pvp field.
I do disagree with his stance on deflect in this particular thread. While i do agree that defensive enchantments should be slotted with HP, I feel that the deflect benefits from heroic feats, boons, and Cha can make quite a difference. Especially if a score of 25+ is obtained without slotting.
While the population may have decreased the TR class has not.
i agree sheep is good but....
i know only one player that if u give him rank 7 enchants and normal bile and soul that can kill any build any class any player.
name is Keltz0r.
Comments
and yes, play style defines success by most means, say 90%, but min-maxing the remaining 10% is still not a bad idea.
i myself only played DDO before (and only a cleric to lvl 12), so i am not that experienced (i got a CW to lvl 60 now, to be added to the experience), but for performing *ok* a basic skill for video games plus a curiosity to learn how things work is enough for me
didn't assume that CON is so valuable in PvP, had no idea about how regeneration works, until now…
i did already read laments, that halflings are best for PvP, no matter what class you play. well, there might be some exceptions to the rule, but people already recommended me to go for a halfling cleric - just because in PvP the difference is big while in PvE it does not matter much how your other stats look like…
about the math - maybe i can explain a bit: the relative percentage is maybe better explained the following way. i now always speak of factors, so 1% more damage to a factor of 1.01 in damage increase, or better, 101/100. if you start with 14 STR (factor 1.04) and want to know the bonus at lvl 60 (and you pushed STR to 20, i.e., factor 1.1), then you can easily calculate it as 110%=110/100.
the latter can be expressed as 110/109 * 109/108 * 108/107 * 107/106 * 106/105 * 105/104 * 104/100. the rightmost term factor is what you start with. all factors together are 110/100 as all those nominators and denominators cancel themselves out. if you look closely, the two factors to the right is 105/100, the bonus you have at lvl 10. the 3 rightmost together are 106/100, your bonus at lvl 20. so, at lvl 20, you are by 106/105 better than you were at lvl 10, your *relative* increase in power from lvl 10 to lvl 20 (w.r.t. STR) is 106/105 - which is not 101/100, i.e., not a 1% increase in power. if your relative power increase would be 1% always, at lvl 60 your bonus damage should be 1.01^10, which is 1.1046 or about 10.46% power increase.
=> 1% more is not always 1% more. mathematically it is much easier to calculate with those relative power increases and it is much less confusing than what we got taught at school about percentages.
one example is: if you lose 50% of your money with trading and then win 50% you do not end up with your initial amount. you end up with 75% of it. because losing 50% corresponds to a factor of 0.5 and winning to 1.5, i.e., the factor of the second one is not outweighed by the first. one always needs to be careful what the *base* is to which those percentages regard to.
coming back to NWO: if you already know your gear+starting stats+lvl up 30&60 will give you 50% crit, then pushing DEX 4 times during lvl ups changes your crit bonus from 50% to 54%. the power gain (not damage, just the amount of crits you cause) in comparison of never pushing your DEX is 154/150, roughly 1.0267. by pushing DEX you will not gain 4% more critical hits *in comparison* to not pushing DEX. the damage output increase caused by crits does only rise by 2.67%.
for deflect, each point is beneficial. if deflect severity would be 100%, then if you would have 90% deflect and you can pump CHA by one point, your survivability does not increase by 1% - it increases by (roughly) 11%! because if enemies need to land 10 hits to kill you before, they need to strike 100 times. with 91% deflect they need to strike about 111 times, as only 9% of 111 strikes corresponds to about 10 direct hits.
in all those calculations i do assume that NWO calculates its damage bonuses with the formula (1+%from STR)* … and whether an attack truly hits by (1 - %deflect).
there is an easy mathematical way to make all those percentage increases (or decreases) be relative, but … that part i rather omit, becomes truly a bit technical then
and maybe some of their devs read this post and want to hire me now for my wisdom :P
My hafling is full radiants HP...and 0 deflect enchants
With that i have 39. deflect..with some basic buffs..41 % deflect.
But i always feal that it failds me.
Should i quit my x5 HP radiant Hp..and go back to 52 % deflect ??
Because i can have 2600 deflect..if i sacriface radiants.
I dont feal that 40% deflect helps me much..actualy failds me much :S
Atm my hp is like 31 000 -32 000 with radiants...( with campfire only 13 constitution).
If i sacriface all radiants .il get 52% + deflect and like umm...26-27 000 HP...would be a fair trade ?/..lose like 4000 Hp +..and gain 52 % deflect..umm
Maybe i have bad luck...but 40% just wont work for me.
This % is without Capree.
Hmm loosing Hp..less reg
I've changed a lot since this thread was made.
I am curious what your regen is, if at all with that much deflect?
I've found that Health and Regen for a PvP TR are the best ways to go. Naturally having good deflect of course is only going to help. I don't spec, or build into Deflect anymore. Health and Regen are constant, and better by far.
my reg is 1447 (without dread boon 250 reg)
STR is an additive and passive damage increase.
CHA is a multiplicative and active damage increase. The latter is because it requires either Stealth or in-combat positioning. There are also further complications with CHA/Combat Advantage because sometimes feats or Powers do not benefit from extra bonuses to it.
So, STR gives a far larger damage increase and it is more flexible in builds because it is "always on".
That said, CHA also provides a survival bonus due to Deflection, for which it is twice as effective as DEX. So, it cannot be so easily dismissed in PvP.
Also, CON is an often underrated stat. It is (highly) useful, efficient (each point is 2% HP) and effective for both survival and offense in certain builds and contexts, e.g. premades.
Up to you really.
I personally went with Con/Cha and like it very much.
what the most optimal deflect and is fey thistle pretty good with a 30% deflection rating
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
I stopped to read there.
Check the decreasing population stats in the lastest 2 months for this game and you will understand it.
You need only watch a few of his videos to realize his capabilities. In order to maximize your success in pvp you must be aware of your enemies cooldowns, positioning, and patern. Self awareness of your own cooldowns takes great concentration alone, but blacksheep makes few mistakes and is undoubtedly skilled in offensive timing and has impecable defensive play. I dont know him, so its of no use to me to fan his already inflated ego. However, i do appreciate a highly skilled gamer, especially when it relates to my primary class. Most could benefit from watching some of his videos, as they are fundamentally sound and would benefit any rogue wishing to maximize their abilities on the pvp field.
I do disagree with his stance on deflect in this particular thread. While i do agree that defensive enchantments should be slotted with HP, I feel that the deflect benefits from heroic feats, boons, and Cha can make quite a difference. Especially if a score of 25+ is obtained without slotting.
While the population may have decreased the TR class has not.
Dragon Server
Ragnos Fireborn - 18.7k GWF Half-Elf
Eva Darkblood - 13.8k TR Elf
Venger Force of Evil - 13.7k CW Tiefling
Azaghal Belegost - 16.5k GF Dwarf
Drak'ar - 13.3k HR Drow
Roghthar Darkspawn - 11.5k SW Human
Race, feats, powers and high dex/cha get you there.
To be more precise:
This allows you to get a total maximum of 3+3+3+12 = 21% deflection chance without any gear and base values (what's the TR's base deflection chance?) and before further distributing stat points. You could acquire another 9% if you go full dex/cha for a total bonus of 30%. Personally, however, I'd go for some points in con in the initial roll as well (14 in my case) as HP synergizes just too well with regen and vice versa. Top that off with 2,000 deflect for an extra 13.6%* and you'll sit at + 43,6% deflection (which I personally wouldn't strive for, though
*: see this source
i agree sheep is good but....
i know only one player that if u give him rank 7 enchants and normal bile and soul that can kill any build any class any player.
name is Keltz0r.