Hey, got another Pirate Kings Story around about GS and skill:
Been yesterday there, just wanted to switch my off-hand on main (cleric) - following party randomly queued:
CW 1 (around 9k)
CW 2 (around 12.5k)
TR and GF (dunno, but quite high GS)
me (around 11k, I dont care)
To me it feld like the GF never played his class, never seen a timeless GF who was dying that fast - also he did just about 4-5 solo things during that run, while the rest of us been looting chests, ofc he died.
CW 1 did very well, just a singularity now and then, AoE well, oppressive force,... All I wish from a CW to encounter larger numbers of enemies.
CW 2... Ice Storm (yeah, that annoying icy knockback), everytime he could - as long 3 enemies + been around him and only single targeted... At last campfire he got it - dual singuarity, almost everytime - CW 2 started casting it standing next to CW 1 who already had it up...
TR been indle 50% of time, active 50% he did kinda well.
At boss...
CW 2 died pretty fast, revived, died fast again.
The TR ran far far away, died and released (daf?) - didnt said anytihng and idled to loot.
So the GF, CW1 and me been left - the GF needed a high amount of heal, Im not used to on a timeless equip - he also wasn't DPS build, since hes been about 100k DMG behind me, but he did it not to die - but he just been attacking boss, attacking adds, losing boss' aggro,...
So CW1 and me been kiting and dealing adds + boss kinda solo...
Hey, got another Pirate Kings Story around about GS and skill:
Been yesterday there, just wanted to switch my off-hand on main (cleric) - following party randomly queued:
CW 1 (around 9k)
CW 2 (around 12.5k)
TR and GF (dunno, but quite high GS)
me (around 11k, I dont care)
To me it feld like the GF never played his class, never seen a timeless GF who was dying that fast - also he did just about 4-5 solo things during that run, while the rest of us been looting chests, ofc he died.
CW 1 did very well, just a singularity now and then, AoE well, oppressive force,... All I wish from a CW to encounter larger numbers of enemies.
CW 2... Ice Storm (yeah, that annoying icy knockback), everytime he could - as long 3 enemies + been around him and only single targeted... At last campfire he got i
I have got a story aswell,
I went Spell plague yesterday with 2 CWs:
CW1: 10k+ CW2: 12k+
both of them were very good, but CW2 dealt 2m more damage.
I guess u didn't get the point of GS != skill discuss...
Ofc I can heal/dmg the more with Xk more GS.
Tell anyone just to hit at-wills - with 12k GS he will deal more dmg than he would wth 8k.
Still says nothing if he/she even understood how to play the class itself and how to play in a team.
And half of my previous post just got lost o0
will edit by now...
If you go BiS and best stat distribution, you will have around 12.5~12.7k ( if you are a TR/CW/DC) and around 14k if you are a GWF. You can achieve 15k+ on CWs/TRs/DCs only if you are HP stacker or mixing 2/2 pieces of two different sets which isn't efficient.
If you are a good player you will always look to improve yourself and your gear. You wont lock yourself with lesser weapon enchantments and rank 5/6s if you are a "skilled" player, especially that the rank 7s / normal enchantments are really cheap ( if you are a consistent dungeoneer).
For example, if i'm a TR with rank 5 enchantments, i would never out DPS a TR with rank 7s unless that TR is very bad.
So versus a good TR with rank 7s my DPS would look like a joke, no matter how skilled i'm, because he actually have the skill + the gear. So yes, gear plays a big role here.
Which makes me come back to my question that you completely ignored :
Now give me one reason, why would i keep myself at 10k GS, if i can easily go to 12k due to my good experience in dungeons ?
IF you are trying to join a party who is asking for Exp only for 4/4 CN, and you would tell me " i'm exp but low GS" trust me, they wont bother adding you. Because you have no proof that you are good, they wouldn't run a test run and see how good you are they would rather invite a high GS since the majority of high GS players are good and probably more experienced.
It is just like college diploma graduate vs high school graduate, the high school graduate maybe smarter than the college graduate. But in the eyes of the people, the college graduate will always have an edge on you in terms of selection.
Maybe because some gamers aint no sheep and do not like to follow the herd. I am far outside of the stable. Not all of the people in NW have to follow guides, unlike many high gs people, since they even fail to comprehend the tooltips of their skills etc...
But yeah it doesn't seem as if you are able to comprehend anything beyond the stable, yourself. Too bad, isn't it? Personally, i wouldn't want to join a party with HAMSTER pre-set rules anyway.
Intelligence is way more important than GS and that's the end of the story.
Maybe because some gamers aint no sheep and do not like to follow the herd. I am far outside of the stable. Not all of the people in NW have to follow guides, unlike many high gs people, since they even fail to comprehend the tooltips of their skills etc...
So you considered and assumed that majority High GS players are brain dead that don't know how their character work.
Whats your proof?
The fact that you don't know, that with rank 6s and 7s enchantments, and full 4/4 gear of the same type that you can easily achieve 11k+ (without even stacking any HP). Means you are very ignorant about the game mechanics.
But yeah it doesn't seem as if you are able to comprehend anything beyond the stable, yourself. Too bad, isn't it? Personally, i wouldn't want to join a party with HAMSTER pre-set rules anyway.
Intelligence is way more important than GS and that's the end of the story.
Again you escaped my question. Your logic is flawed. You assume that majority of high GS players are bad (with no proof even), while i'm asking you, why not be good and high GS at the same time? is it difficult? No. Is it cheap? Yes.
A TR with 1.8k armor pen, vs a TR with 2.4k TR. Both using same encounters and are very good in their rotations. How can a less damage dealing TR will deal more damage than the more damage dealing TR?
90% of the high GS players i played with were good and will certainly not take a good TR with 10k GS if i can take a good 12k+ TR who will make the boss fight twice as fast.
Your logic is black and white, whether bad player with high GS or a good player with low GS.While my question that you are escaping is: Why not both?
You don't seem to be bright yourself if you can't answer that question. You can go with your low GS flawed logic, while i'm making 5x the AD you make per day . Cheers.
I don't even bother w/ enchanting my chars anymore because it's not needed and is a waste of an enchantment especially if you don't have a lot of time to play. My GF,DC, and alt CW sit at 10.9k gs, and can go 11k+ w/ two piece which I don't like. Two piece for me is a faux gs, unfortunately I have to two piece on some other alts until I get a full set. Anyhow, does GS = skill of course not, does it always = more damage which is one of the most important things here = no.
Play style and the skills you slot have more to do with damage then anything else.My alt CW out dps my main and I have out dps some 12k+. We only have 3 skills slotted for most classes so for a TR enchantment maybe more important.
On my main CW i run with entangling force, icy terrain, steal time and shard but I built him as an AP generating recovery CW. 25 wis 23 int w/buff that's 24wis/22int naturally which = 26% free recovery 14% free AP. Do I expect him to top dps? No not until he has a full stone btw I am a PVE player. Enchantments are huge for PVP don't go w/out them. However, I do expect him to pop his daily more often.
Now for my first tr, I have 3 (2 at 60) for each path, I went 25str 25dex w/ buff, 24str/24dex (natural) at 2708 crit because of the free 12%+ 1%w/buff I have 47%crit chance without a crit bonus two piece set. I had to throw in some useless 5 enchantments just to get a pt for T2 which I will have to replace. Could I finish T2 without any enchantments? yes, I have but would i get consistent groups? No. Do I think the 5 ranks are useless? yes, also had to throw in a 4 rank. I would of preferred to gear up first, look at my stats buy a stone and work the stone into my end build and decide which enchants I will use. With stone I don't think I will need to slot crit enchants on any of my accessories. Plus when I have the time I need to CN for his main hand/ get him in MC since I finished weaponsmithing on this tr. That's 450 extra crit I only need 50%, atm he seems to gain 1% for every 220 so with a two weapon 450+ full set 450 = 900/220 about 4% gain + 47%, T2 will have more crit stats on armor maybe 50.9% because DR kicks in soon. Do I expect him to deal damage? yes.
Back to playstyle, I've already listed my main CW's slotted skills. However, on my alt we share entangling force, shard and steal time but I use sudden storm a skill I would never use on my main. Both are Thaumaturge but slightly different, my alt has the aoe feats and uses evocation class feature w/ storm spell/arcane mastery and only if another CW looks like they might out dps me I keep evocation and trade in the other for eye of storm.
Two different play styles with different set of expectations. I would say play-style > gs, you can tell a very bad player early on from how they play and what skills you don't see them casting etc.
I understand why gs is used as an indicator for a potential good party member I don't see that changing. If you have the time and are not an alt addict like myself then BiS, I don't have time so I don't enchant too much because one of my alts may need x enchantment to gear up. Once they are geared its enchant farming/stone and math time. I only get stone after because what ever enchantments I put on the left side will stay there forever so it's critical to get a general view of how future ends sets may look like and then decide this is the extra amount of x I will always have.
I rather run with high GS than low gs party mates, why? Because im Sent GWF even if im using lightning it is hard for me (us) to keep the threat and low gs players tend to kiss the floor more often than High GS.
Having the best gs in this game means you actually don't know much about playing.
Because if you did, you would actually choose gear that benefits your class over gs, far better blue gear out there for classes/builds that would naturally lower your gs yet improve your effectiveness!
And you feel pro because you have low gs, nubs you make me laugh.
Pro?
I don't get paid to play neverwinter do you?
As to the low gs comment, Greater tennes don't give a gs value, having 7 of them and 2 Rank 9 Radiants along with 3 Rank 9 Darks won't put me over 11.4k gs (**** at how come I am always top compared to those in 15k gs)
If i thought gs made a diff to my character/s I wouldn't be using a blue belt, along with blue rings.
As to the low gs comment, Greater tennes don't give a gs value, having 7 of them and 2 Rank 9 Radiants along with 3 Rank 9 Darks won't put me over 11.4k gs (**** at how come I am always top compared to those in 15k gs)
If i thought gs made a diff to my character/s I wouldn't be using a blue belt, along with blue rings.
But hey what do I know?
We are talking about PvE. Tenebrous/blue rings&necks is PvP BiS because PvP focuses on having concentrated stats on damage and surviveability such as : Defense/deflection/regenration and HP. High GS BiS in PvP is around 11k max. PvE is a whole different story and specs..
We are talking about PvE. Tenebrous/blue rings&necks is PvP BiS because PvP focuses on having concentrated stats on damage and surviveability such as : Defense/deflection/regenration and HP. High GS BiS in PvP is around 11k max. PvE is a whole different story and specs..
You came to the wrong thread .
No I didn't come to the wrong thread, the OP seemed to think having the highest gs makes all the diff in a dungeon, it doesn't.
No I didn't come to the wrong thread, the OP seemed to think having the highest gs makes all the diff in a dungeon, it doesn't.
Yes it does actually.
For a TR for example, if you have full swash with Armor pen at the soft cap. You will have around 12k+ GS. While TRs with 10k GS would certainly have below 2k armor pen which would result in a lower DPS.
My TR have equally distributed stats ( 2.4k armor pen and 2.7k recovery and 3k+ crit) and he is 12.7k GS.
My DC has hit the soft cap on crit, defense and recovery with a GS of 12.5k GS, and she can kite mobs in FH and tank adds in Castle never. A DC with 10k GS would die faster, leading to a slower run.
My point is, you don't need to stack HP to have a high GS you can have a good stat distribution and still get high gear score. It would certianly improve your DPS and defensive stats which would lead into faster runs and less wipes.
The question was asked if you can just go and buy the equipment to improve your gear score why wouldn't you? The answer is because I play for fun, not profit. I run 1 dungeon per day, if I feel like it. I will eventually get those rank 7 enchants as gather them together and fuse them. I don't play min/max characters, I develop them as I feel like, not how some self-designated elite expert thinks I should. My play style is my own, not yours. Again, this is a game, not a job. D&D is about developing your character how you feel like and making it your own, not a clone of someone else's idea. Gearscore is not a reflection of skill, sure that 15k GF may out damage the rest of the party, but I have seen them take dirt naps as much as I have seen lessor geared characters. In the end it comes down whether the party is out for fun or profit. Profit runs will certainly give you fleeting bragging rights, but fun runs will last much longer.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
0
faiteaccompliiMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 2
edited October 2013
If the bosses went down and all had fun the end of game 'meter' (the thing that says who did what dmg etc.) is of absolutely no use to me. I could care less if healer 1 or healer 2 healed more or if CW 1 or 2 did more dmg etc. as long as the dungeon was conquered without too much pain and suffering.
Too much emphasis on "Oh I had 0 deaths and 20 kills yay" (this is pvp though) when in reality that does not always mean you contributed most to the game or team. (sometimes yes, sometimes no)
And in PVE, again, did the boss go down? Was it pretty fun? That is what matters to me and I don't care who was on top as long as it went smooth. You can't account for that cw who may have been controlling adds off the healer instead of mass dps'ing
Fun is for sure a different perspective for alot of players here. Just don't make a thread on forums saying that no one wants to invite you due to your "low-Gs-Fun" concept. Some have more fun when they complete runs smother and faster, don't shove up your concept to them. Make you own "fun" groups in that case because different players have their own perspectives of fun.
I've played many online games (MMORPGs), well over 100, in my lifetime, and I'm still 20. This means, for about 8 or so years of my life, I've spent most of my time on MMOs. Not WoW, but actual hardcore MMOs (haters gonna hate). I've even played game like S4 league and Vindictus. Most of these GS elites would get owned before the matches (for S4) or right when they turned the corner (in Vin). Then you have games like CoH, CoV, and CoH:GR, where you literally have water-land-air combat while trying to fend of psionic mobs.
^ That, in my opinion, is actual experience.
--
Now, in this game specifically, my first char (a GWM) is a Nhub. This is because she only does main/side quests rather than foundries. My second char (a cleric), on the other hand, is pro due to soloing Foundries. And let me tell you, in case you don't know, the majority of Foundries are at impossibru level, atleast compared to normal gameplay.
I don't do storyline dungeons, I do solo hardcore dungeon-style enemies-knock-you-off-the-bridge-and-into-the-abyss multi-boss, auto-mob-respawn foundries...with just myself (once again, an OFFENSIVE cleric) and my control wizard (that doesn't dodge, the idiot...).
I tried the orc area 5-man dungeon. I beat all of it - solo. Well, with my control wizard, but he kept dying... I regretted it, since it was far too boring...that was at level 17, I think.
And I don't even have good pants.
I'd like to see one of these GS elites show me them doing that at that level, solo. I'll laugh. Hard.
I've played many online games (MMORPGs), well over 100, in my lifetime, and I'm still 20. This means, for about 8 or so years of my life, I've spent most of my time on MMOs. Not WoW, but actual hardcore MMOs (haters gonna hate). I've even played game like S4 league and Vindictus. Most of these GS elites would get owned before the matches (for S4) or right when they turned the corner (in Vin). Then you have games like CoH, CoV, and CoH:GR, where you literally have water-land-air combat while trying to fend of psionic mobs.
S4 league is a 3rd person shooter. I don't recall any 3rd person shooter where you need "gearz" to defeat anyone ( please don't tell me gunz ).
NWO is a very easy game, where you can have the gear and the skill at the same time. I personally think that a game based on avoiding red circles and getting AD literally from ANYTHING is very easy to excel at as long as you have a functional keyboard.
That's why i don't understand the logic behind ( i'm skilled but i'm gonna keep my character at 10k GS cuz it is fun) while they can easily get above 11k GS with extremely ridiculously cheap rank 6 enchants. It is like saying " i have a Fiat in a good shape and i will out race your Lamborghini ( yah, that's actually the difference between my DPS and the so called "skilled" 10k GS players , it is just hilarious)."
Keeping your character at low GS makes you vulnerable to more wipes, slower dungeons and even result in your group leaving because you spent 1 hour in spell plague. Where is the fun is that? maybe some have fun in having slow 1 hr long dungeon with 4 or 5 wipes in the middle, but i think majority doesn't like that unless you are masochistic. But nevermind, according to some, having decent 12k+ GS with equally distributed stats means you are a scrub and non skilled. While having 4k crit and 1k armor pen 10k GS is too pro.I'm sure 10k DC can hold the aggro better than a 11k+ DC and protect the whole party. ROFL.
Now, in this game specifically, my first char (a GWM) is a Nhub. This is because she only does main/side quests rather than foundries. My second char (a cleric), on the other hand, is pro due to soloing Foundries. And let me tell you, in case you don't know, the majority of Foundries are at impossibru level, atleast compared to normal gameplay.
I don't do storyline dungeons, I do solo hardcore dungeon-style enemies-knock-you-off-the-bridge-and-into-the-abyss multi-boss, auto-mob-respawn foundries...with just myself (once again, an OFFENSIVE cleric) and my control wizard (that doesn't dodge, the idiot...).
I tried the orc area 5-man dungeon. I beat all of it - solo. Well, with my control wizard, but he kept dying... I regretted it, since it was far too boring...that was at level 17, I think.
And I don't even have good pants.
I'd like to see one of these GS elites show me them doing that at that level, solo. I'll laugh. Hard.
You soloed a foundry on a CW?!, woooaaaaahhh!. I must build a statue of myself then for soloing dracolich in CN from 20 % to 0% single handed. But ofcourse, foundry is much harder than a crazy dragon constantly spamming AoE that can 1 shot you.
Esteena, you put a lot of faith that each character's gear score is a significant representation of their skill, due to the time investment of acquiring said gear, the focus on choosing the correct implants, and the assumption that a player who cares about how he is represented through his gear score is more likely to want to succeed over one who is not.
My approach lends all that less weight, but it's not like I throw it out. I know gear can be bought. I know players can have multiple characters on an account, and might have a 'main' who actually has great gear elsewhere, and thus still *might* have experience in the dungeon but not the gear to represent. And I know that there are a lot of more casual gamers who hate the feeling like they HAVE to do anything in a video game, and who buck established mediums like GS minimums for no other reason than personal ego.
And I've had too many experiences so far that contradict each other. 13k GS PvP champs that suck at running a simple dungeon like Dwarf King, because they don't know how to avoid the red circle or manage aggro. 8k GS lemons who manage boss aggro like a pro because they are focused and dedicated to accomplishing the goal at hand, but in the end have done over a hundred spellplague and not gotten the drop yet. And everything in between.
Plus, gear score doesn't take into account tene's, movement, attachments ... and in PvE specifically, high HP totals don't mean a whole lot sometimes.
We're both making assumptions. Mine just don't sound so absolute. I think it's all too often you can't tell who is better than who, until they play.
I will argue this: A lower geared (not GS, but geared) player with good skill against a higher geared player with poor skill, it's much harder for the lower geared player to win in PvP. Gear DOES help. Alot.
"Every adventurer has two things in common: they don't like dying, and they love getting paid. The rest is just semantics." Brecken, famed mercenary of Baldur's Gate
Esteena, you put a lot of faith that each character's gear score is a significant representation of their skill, due to the time investment of acquiring said gear, the focus on choosing the correct implants, and the assumption that a player who cares about how he is represented through his gear score is more likely to want to succeed over one who is not.
My approach lends all that less weight, but it's not like I throw it out. I know gear can be bought. I know players can have multiple characters on an account, and might have a 'main' who actually has great gear elsewhere, and thus still *might* have experience in the dungeon but not the gear to represent. And I know that there are a lot of more casual gamers who hate the feeling like they HAVE to do anything in a video game, and who buck established mediums like GS minimums for no other reason than personal ego.
And I've had too many experiences so far that contradict each other. 13k GS PvP champs that suck at running a simple dungeon like Dwarf King, because they don't know how to avoid the red circle or manage aggro. 8k GS lemons who manage boss aggro like a pro because they are focused and dedicated to accomplishing the goal at hand, but in the end have done over a hundred spellplague and not gotten the drop yet. And everything in between.
Plus, gear score doesn't take into account tene's, movement, attachments ... and in PvE specifically, high HP totals don't mean a whole lot sometimes.
We're both making assumptions. Mine just don't sound so absolute. I think it's all too often you can't tell who is better than who, until they play.
I will argue this: A lower geared (not GS, but geared) player with good skill against a higher geared player with poor skill, it's much harder for the lower geared player to win in PvP. Gear DOES help. Alot.
That's why i kept repeating myself numerous times,
Why not have the skill and the gear at the same time?
It is easy, it is simple and it is cheap. You don't need to stack any HP to get above 12k GS, i geared 3 classes and i can assure you that. PvP is another story, i was only talking about PvE.
Gear DOES help in PvE content, a 11k~12k DC full 4/4set with nice capped defense/delfect can hold aggro for his CWs while they do singularities. A 10k DC would probably die from 1 pack of mobs.
a 11~12k TR with nice DPS and capped armor pen& nice recovery can hold the boss aggro away from his party efficiently , and get the boss down at a decent rate.
a 10k TR would spend much more time and probably would lose the aggro due to his low damage. (Even if the 10k GS TR got a perfect vorpal)
I'm not assuming that every high GS players is good and every low GS is bad but i do believe , from my experience from open beta till now, that majority of good high GS players> majority of good Low GS players or in other words : Good high GS players are a majority while good low GS players are a minority..
I geared 2 characters for PvE and 1 for PvP, and i farmed all my gear (except for shirt and pants, these were bought from AH) so i constantly did all dungeons over and over and over...i went with lots of different players so my assumption is based on experience.
And honestly, if a player can't dodge a red circle in PvE content or find it a hard task? then whether his Shift key isn't functioning or he is mentally disabled. No offense. ( GWF and GF excluded)
Why not have the skill and the gear at the same time?
Simply because I don't want to. Or better put, I'm not going to go out of my very casual way on my many characters to gear them all. I might jump into a DD on my CW, but I could care less if he gets the right boots at the end. He is mostly a farming alt anyhow. I'm not spending the AD, I don't PvP with him much (but I'll have the glory eventually).
No, it's for no other reason than want. Does not wanting to min-max every account make me a bad player? Or just generally bad?
"Every adventurer has two things in common: they don't like dying, and they love getting paid. The rest is just semantics." Brecken, famed mercenary of Baldur's Gate
No, it's for no other reason than want. Does not wanting to min-max every account make me a bad player? Or just generally bad?
It isn't about min-max, it is about [Below Average- Average- and above average] <-- Gear wise.
A good player falling between the first two categories will not be as good as a good player falling between the 2nd&3rd categories. It is about how fast and efficient you want to run your dungeons, do you want to finish it in 1 hour? or in 35 minutes? Do you want a cleric who can hold aggro off his CWs while they do Singularities, or a cleric who will die due to low defense /deflect?
We are all good players, it is an easy game, but the main case here is whether you want to be better or not. That's all.
You misread my post. In fact, you misread everyone's posts, but still...
I'm not a CW. My companion is. He never dodges and thus dies every 2 seconds. Then it's just me.
I'm a Cleric. An offensive cleric - not a healer. I solo'd the 5-man orc raid at level 17. As a cleric...that can't heal. And my companion was either getting destroyed every 2 seconds or sent away for training...that didn't help him at all.
--
S4 League is not simply a "shooter". Every weapon is designed to fit certain strategies, you can fly everywhere, destroy people with large swords or use shields or chain-daggers, you can not only dodge but do all manners of acrobatics. Yet, despite this, it still comes down to being a B2W game. Yet I never B2W on it.
I'm pretty sure anyone can go into that game, get a cash set, and survive. But without all that, people like you - that underestimate the difficulty of things - would get obliterated. You must also play VERY easy foundries. With cash armor or atleast all blues.
If the guy wants to have low GS, so be it, that's his choice and it's an actual challenge - far different from YOU and your decision to take the easy way out.
GS helps a lot (im talking about being well geared, enchantment) however, experience is a big part of the process to be good at pvp/pve in any game. I have seen players lowgeared have a great notion of what to do in a pvp match, and I have seen people geared to the teeth that have not even the basics of any pvp.
I would say that at first, gear>>> experience for freshplayers. there is at some point where even a player undegeared can surprise a better geared player.
and finally, when both have gear, experience, skills is what will make the difference.
Dovahkiin Gannicus, GWF Sentinel- Enemy Team Guild
Gannicus Destroyer, GWF Destroyer retired
Kate Beckinsale NB DC, Link NB GF
"There is only one way to be a champion..., Never ...ing lose"
You misread my post. In fact, you misread everyone's posts, but still...
I'm not a CW. My companion is. He never dodges and thus dies every 2 seconds. Then it's just me.
I'm a Cleric. An offensive cleric - not a healer. I solo'd the 5-man orc raid at level 17. As a cleric...that can't heal. And my companion was either getting destroyed every 2 seconds or sent away for training...that didn't help him at all.
--
S4 League is not simply a "shooter". Every weapon is designed to fit certain strategies, you can fly everywhere, destroy people with large swords or use shields or chain-daggers, you can not only dodge but do all manners of acrobatics. Yet, despite this, it still comes down to being a B2W game. Yet I never B2W on it.
I'm pretty sure anyone can go into that game, get a cash set, and survive. But without all that, people like you - that underestimate the difficulty of things - would get obliterated. You must also play VERY easy foundries. With cash armor or atleast all blues.
If the guy wants to have low GS, so be it, that's his choice and it's an actual challenge - far different from YOU and your decision to take the easy way out.
And why on the beloved mother earth are you comparing a PvP 3rd person game to never winter PvE? it is like comparing Call of duty to sonic the hedgehog.
We were merely discussing how GS affect PvE in NWO, and you went all in discussing how cool you are in s4 league which isn't even related to PvE in NWO. Dude, just get your stuff straight and realize you are comparing completely different games and play styles here. Read before you type something irrelevant to the topic.
Cash armor? is there something called cash armor in NWO? and no, i don't even play foundries anymore since that was for leveling up, i play dungeons that you probably didn't even reach the minimum requirements for .
No one complained about people having high GS, if you took the time and read the OP, you would relaize that he is complaining that he can't join parties because people ask for too high requirements ( in his point of view) which is what started the whole argument about PvE GS from first place. You don't even have the closest clue about what the discussion is about.
My advice for you: Read. Think. Type. Not vise verse .
0
kaoswpBanned Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 144Bounty Hunter
edited October 2013
OH MY GOD!!!!!!!!!!! More gear is better than less gear. More skill is better than less skill. What they want is someone who is good AND has good gear. There is no number determining skill, so they filter idiots based off of GS. If you don't want to be filtered out, get better gear. If you don't want to get better gear, QQ and play alone.
Welcome to MMOs man. Glad I could explain the basics of it all
OH MY GOD!!!!!!!!!!! More gear is better than less gear. More skill is better than less skill. What they want is someone who is good AND has good gear. There is no number determining skill, so they filter idiots based off of GS. If you don't want to be filtered out, get better gear. If you don't want to get better gear, QQ and play alone.
Welcome to MMOs man. Glad I could explain the basics of it all
This^
You managed to explain all my posts in few sentences.
0
kaoswpBanned Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 144Bounty Hunter
Comments
Been yesterday there, just wanted to switch my off-hand on main (cleric) - following party randomly queued:
CW 1 (around 9k)
CW 2 (around 12.5k)
TR and GF (dunno, but quite high GS)
me (around 11k, I dont care)
To me it feld like the GF never played his class, never seen a timeless GF who was dying that fast - also he did just about 4-5 solo things during that run, while the rest of us been looting chests, ofc he died.
CW 1 did very well, just a singularity now and then, AoE well, oppressive force,... All I wish from a CW to encounter larger numbers of enemies.
CW 2... Ice Storm (yeah, that annoying icy knockback), everytime he could - as long 3 enemies + been around him and only single targeted... At last campfire he got it - dual singuarity, almost everytime - CW 2 started casting it standing next to CW 1 who already had it up...
TR been indle 50% of time, active 50% he did kinda well.
At boss...
CW 2 died pretty fast, revived, died fast again.
The TR ran far far away, died and released (daf?) - didnt said anytihng and idled to loot.
So the GF, CW1 and me been left - the GF needed a high amount of heal, Im not used to on a timeless equip - he also wasn't DPS build, since hes been about 100k DMG behind me, but he did it not to die - but he just been attacking boss, attacking adds, losing boss' aggro,...
So CW1 and me been kiting and dealing adds + boss kinda solo...
I have got a story aswell,
I went Spell plague yesterday with 2 CWs:
CW1: 10k+ CW2: 12k+
both of them were very good, but CW2 dealt 2m more damage.
Bottom line of the story:
High GS good player> Low GS good player.
Ofc I can heal/dmg the more with Xk more GS.
Tell anyone just to hit at-wills - with 12k GS he will deal more dmg than he would wth 8k.
Still says nothing if he/she even understood how to play the class itself and how to play in a team.
And half of my previous post just got lost o0
will edit by now...
Maybe because some gamers aint no sheep and do not like to follow the herd. I am far outside of the stable. Not all of the people in NW have to follow guides, unlike many high gs people, since they even fail to comprehend the tooltips of their skills etc...
But yeah it doesn't seem as if you are able to comprehend anything beyond the stable, yourself. Too bad, isn't it? Personally, i wouldn't want to join a party with HAMSTER pre-set rules anyway.
Intelligence is way more important than GS and that's the end of the story.
seeya.
So you considered and assumed that majority High GS players are brain dead that don't know how their character work.
Whats your proof?
The fact that you don't know, that with rank 6s and 7s enchantments, and full 4/4 gear of the same type that you can easily achieve 11k+ (without even stacking any HP). Means you are very ignorant about the game mechanics.
Again you escaped my question. Your logic is flawed. You assume that majority of high GS players are bad (with no proof even), while i'm asking you, why not be good and high GS at the same time? is it difficult? No. Is it cheap? Yes.
A TR with 1.8k armor pen, vs a TR with 2.4k TR. Both using same encounters and are very good in their rotations. How can a less damage dealing TR will deal more damage than the more damage dealing TR?
90% of the high GS players i played with were good and will certainly not take a good TR with 10k GS if i can take a good 12k+ TR who will make the boss fight twice as fast.
Your logic is black and white, whether bad player with high GS or a good player with low GS.While my question that you are escaping is: Why not both?
You don't seem to be bright yourself if you can't answer that question. You can go with your low GS flawed logic, while i'm making 5x the AD you make per day
Play style and the skills you slot have more to do with damage then anything else.My alt CW out dps my main and I have out dps some 12k+. We only have 3 skills slotted for most classes so for a TR enchantment maybe more important.
On my main CW i run with entangling force, icy terrain, steal time and shard but I built him as an AP generating recovery CW. 25 wis 23 int w/buff that's 24wis/22int naturally which = 26% free recovery 14% free AP. Do I expect him to top dps? No not until he has a full stone btw I am a PVE player. Enchantments are huge for PVP don't go w/out them. However, I do expect him to pop his daily more often.
Now for my first tr, I have 3 (2 at 60) for each path, I went 25str 25dex w/ buff, 24str/24dex (natural) at 2708 crit because of the free 12%+ 1%w/buff I have 47%crit chance without a crit bonus two piece set. I had to throw in some useless 5 enchantments just to get a pt for T2 which I will have to replace. Could I finish T2 without any enchantments? yes, I have but would i get consistent groups? No. Do I think the 5 ranks are useless? yes, also had to throw in a 4 rank. I would of preferred to gear up first, look at my stats buy a stone and work the stone into my end build and decide which enchants I will use. With stone I don't think I will need to slot crit enchants on any of my accessories. Plus when I have the time I need to CN for his main hand/ get him in MC since I finished weaponsmithing on this tr. That's 450 extra crit I only need 50%, atm he seems to gain 1% for every 220 so with a two weapon 450+ full set 450 = 900/220 about 4% gain + 47%, T2 will have more crit stats on armor maybe 50.9% because DR kicks in soon. Do I expect him to deal damage? yes.
Back to playstyle, I've already listed my main CW's slotted skills. However, on my alt we share entangling force, shard and steal time but I use sudden storm a skill I would never use on my main. Both are Thaumaturge but slightly different, my alt has the aoe feats and uses evocation class feature w/ storm spell/arcane mastery and only if another CW looks like they might out dps me I keep evocation and trade in the other for eye of storm.
Two different play styles with different set of expectations. I would say play-style > gs, you can tell a very bad player early on from how they play and what skills you don't see them casting etc.
I understand why gs is used as an indicator for a potential good party member I don't see that changing. If you have the time and are not an alt addict like myself then BiS, I don't have time so I don't enchant too much because one of my alts may need x enchantment to gear up. Once they are geared its enchant farming/stone and math time. I only get stone after because what ever enchantments I put on the left side will stay there forever so it's critical to get a general view of how future ends sets may look like and then decide this is the extra amount of x I will always have.
Because if you did, you would actually choose gear that benefits your class over gs, far better blue gear out there for classes/builds that would naturally lower your gs yet improve your effectiveness!
Pro?
I don't get paid to play neverwinter do you?
As to the low gs comment, Greater tennes don't give a gs value, having 7 of them and 2 Rank 9 Radiants along with 3 Rank 9 Darks won't put me over 11.4k gs (**** at how come I am always top compared to those in 15k gs)
If i thought gs made a diff to my character/s I wouldn't be using a blue belt, along with blue rings.
But hey what do I know?
We are talking about PvE. Tenebrous/blue rings&necks is PvP BiS because PvP focuses on having concentrated stats on damage and surviveability such as : Defense/deflection/regenration and HP. High GS BiS in PvP is around 11k max. PvE is a whole different story and specs..
You came to the wrong thread
No I didn't come to the wrong thread, the OP seemed to think having the highest gs makes all the diff in a dungeon, it doesn't.
Yes it does actually.
For a TR for example, if you have full swash with Armor pen at the soft cap. You will have around 12k+ GS. While TRs with 10k GS would certainly have below 2k armor pen which would result in a lower DPS.
My TR have equally distributed stats ( 2.4k armor pen and 2.7k recovery and 3k+ crit) and he is 12.7k GS.
My DC has hit the soft cap on crit, defense and recovery with a GS of 12.5k GS, and she can kite mobs in FH and tank adds in Castle never. A DC with 10k GS would die faster, leading to a slower run.
My point is, you don't need to stack HP to have a high GS you can have a good stat distribution and still get high gear score. It would certianly improve your DPS and defensive stats which would lead into faster runs and less wipes.
Great Weapon Fighter: Because when is today not a good day to die?
PC and PS4 player. Proud Guildmaster for PS4 Team Fencebane. Rank 5 Officer for PC Team Fencebane. Visit us at http://fencebane.shivtr.com
Too much emphasis on "Oh I had 0 deaths and 20 kills yay" (this is pvp though) when in reality that does not always mean you contributed most to the game or team. (sometimes yes, sometimes no)
And in PVE, again, did the boss go down? Was it pretty fun? That is what matters to me and I don't care who was on top as long as it went smooth. You can't account for that cw who may have been controlling adds off the healer instead of mass dps'ing
^ That, in my opinion, is actual experience.
--
Now, in this game specifically, my first char (a GWM) is a Nhub. This is because she only does main/side quests rather than foundries. My second char (a cleric), on the other hand, is pro due to soloing Foundries. And let me tell you, in case you don't know, the majority of Foundries are at impossibru level, atleast compared to normal gameplay.
I don't do storyline dungeons, I do solo hardcore dungeon-style enemies-knock-you-off-the-bridge-and-into-the-abyss multi-boss, auto-mob-respawn foundries...with just myself (once again, an OFFENSIVE cleric) and my control wizard (that doesn't dodge, the idiot...).
I tried the orc area 5-man dungeon. I beat all of it - solo. Well, with my control wizard, but he kept dying... I regretted it, since it was far too boring...that was at level 17, I think.
And I don't even have good pants.
I'd like to see one of these GS elites show me them doing that at that level, solo. I'll laugh. Hard.
S4 league is a 3rd person shooter. I don't recall any 3rd person shooter where you need "gearz" to defeat anyone ( please don't tell me gunz
NWO is a very easy game, where you can have the gear and the skill at the same time. I personally think that a game based on avoiding red circles and getting AD literally from ANYTHING is very easy to excel at as long as you have a functional keyboard.
That's why i don't understand the logic behind ( i'm skilled but i'm gonna keep my character at 10k GS cuz it is fun) while they can easily get above 11k GS with extremely ridiculously cheap rank 6 enchants. It is like saying " i have a Fiat in a good shape and i will out race your Lamborghini ( yah, that's actually the difference between my DPS and the so called "skilled" 10k GS players , it is just hilarious)."
Keeping your character at low GS makes you vulnerable to more wipes, slower dungeons and even result in your group leaving because you spent 1 hour in spell plague. Where is the fun is that? maybe some have fun in having slow 1 hr long dungeon with 4 or 5 wipes in the middle, but i think majority doesn't like that unless you are masochistic
You soloed a foundry on a CW?!, woooaaaaahhh!. I must build a statue of myself then for soloing dracolich in CN from 20 % to 0% single handed. But ofcourse, foundry is much harder than a crazy dragon constantly spamming AoE that can 1 shot you.
My approach lends all that less weight, but it's not like I throw it out. I know gear can be bought. I know players can have multiple characters on an account, and might have a 'main' who actually has great gear elsewhere, and thus still *might* have experience in the dungeon but not the gear to represent. And I know that there are a lot of more casual gamers who hate the feeling like they HAVE to do anything in a video game, and who buck established mediums like GS minimums for no other reason than personal ego.
And I've had too many experiences so far that contradict each other. 13k GS PvP champs that suck at running a simple dungeon like Dwarf King, because they don't know how to avoid the red circle or manage aggro. 8k GS lemons who manage boss aggro like a pro because they are focused and dedicated to accomplishing the goal at hand, but in the end have done over a hundred spellplague and not gotten the drop yet. And everything in between.
Plus, gear score doesn't take into account tene's, movement, attachments ... and in PvE specifically, high HP totals don't mean a whole lot sometimes.
We're both making assumptions. Mine just don't sound so absolute. I think it's all too often you can't tell who is better than who, until they play.
I will argue this: A lower geared (not GS, but geared) player with good skill against a higher geared player with poor skill, it's much harder for the lower geared player to win in PvP. Gear DOES help. Alot.
"D*mn wizards," said Morik the Rogue.
Learn what a GWF and GF really are: The History of Fighters
That's why i kept repeating myself numerous times,
Why not have the skill and the gear at the same time?
It is easy, it is simple and it is cheap. You don't need to stack any HP to get above 12k GS, i geared 3 classes and i can assure you that. PvP is another story, i was only talking about PvE.
Gear DOES help in PvE content, a 11k~12k DC full 4/4set with nice capped defense/delfect can hold aggro for his CWs while they do singularities. A 10k DC would probably die from 1 pack of mobs.
a 11~12k TR with nice DPS and capped armor pen& nice recovery can hold the boss aggro away from his party efficiently , and get the boss down at a decent rate.
a 10k TR would spend much more time and probably would lose the aggro due to his low damage. (Even if the 10k GS TR got a perfect vorpal)
I'm not assuming that every high GS players is good and every low GS is bad but i do believe , from my experience from open beta till now, that majority of good high GS players> majority of good Low GS players or in other words : Good high GS players are a majority while good low GS players are a minority..
I geared 2 characters for PvE and 1 for PvP, and i farmed all my gear (except for shirt and pants, these were bought from AH) so i constantly did all dungeons over and over and over...i went with lots of different players so my assumption is based on experience.
And honestly, if a player can't dodge a red circle in PvE content or find it a hard task? then whether his Shift key isn't functioning or he is mentally disabled. No offense. ( GWF and GF excluded)
Simply because I don't want to. Or better put, I'm not going to go out of my very casual way on my many characters to gear them all. I might jump into a DD on my CW, but I could care less if he gets the right boots at the end. He is mostly a farming alt anyhow. I'm not spending the AD, I don't PvP with him much (but I'll have the glory eventually).
No, it's for no other reason than want. Does not wanting to min-max every account make me a bad player? Or just generally bad?
"D*mn wizards," said Morik the Rogue.
Learn what a GWF and GF really are: The History of Fighters
It isn't about min-max, it is about [Below Average- Average- and above average] <-- Gear wise.
A good player falling between the first two categories will not be as good as a good player falling between the 2nd&3rd categories. It is about how fast and efficient you want to run your dungeons, do you want to finish it in 1 hour? or in 35 minutes? Do you want a cleric who can hold aggro off his CWs while they do Singularities, or a cleric who will die due to low defense /deflect?
We are all good players, it is an easy game, but the main case here is whether you want to be better or not. That's all.
You misread my post. In fact, you misread everyone's posts, but still...
I'm not a CW. My companion is. He never dodges and thus dies every 2 seconds. Then it's just me.
I'm a Cleric. An offensive cleric - not a healer. I solo'd the 5-man orc raid at level 17. As a cleric...that can't heal. And my companion was either getting destroyed every 2 seconds or sent away for training...that didn't help him at all.
--
S4 League is not simply a "shooter". Every weapon is designed to fit certain strategies, you can fly everywhere, destroy people with large swords or use shields or chain-daggers, you can not only dodge but do all manners of acrobatics. Yet, despite this, it still comes down to being a B2W game. Yet I never B2W on it.
I'm pretty sure anyone can go into that game, get a cash set, and survive. But without all that, people like you - that underestimate the difficulty of things - would get obliterated. You must also play VERY easy foundries. With cash armor or atleast all blues.
If the guy wants to have low GS, so be it, that's his choice and it's an actual challenge - far different from YOU and your decision to take the easy way out.
I would say that at first, gear>>> experience for freshplayers. there is at some point where even a player undegeared can surprise a better geared player.
and finally, when both have gear, experience, skills is what will make the difference.
Gannicus Destroyer, GWF Destroyer retired
Kate Beckinsale NB DC, Link NB GF
"There is only one way to be a champion..., Never ...ing lose"
And why on the beloved mother earth are you comparing a PvP 3rd person game to never winter PvE? it is like comparing Call of duty to sonic the hedgehog.
We were merely discussing how GS affect PvE in NWO, and you went all in discussing how cool you are in s4 league which isn't even related to PvE in NWO. Dude, just get your stuff straight and realize you are comparing completely different games and play styles here. Read before you type something irrelevant to the topic.
Cash armor? is there something called cash armor in NWO? and no, i don't even play foundries anymore since that was for leveling up, i play dungeons that you probably didn't even reach the minimum requirements for
No one complained about people having high GS, if you took the time and read the OP, you would relaize that he is complaining that he can't join parties because people ask for too high requirements ( in his point of view) which is what started the whole argument about PvE GS from first place. You don't even have the closest clue about what the discussion is about.
My advice for you: Read. Think. Type. Not vise verse
Welcome to MMOs man. Glad I could explain the basics of it all
This^
You managed to explain all my posts in few sentences.
I've explained it so many times that I have gotten good at it lol
I could not contain my rage xD I get sick of people demanding that the game be tailored to fit EXACTLY how they want it /: