be realistic. do you think i was really talking about going into your boss's office and saying 'hey dude... i gotta take all of next week off because i'm doing dungeon delves in neverwinter...' then we're obviously not on the same page here. people have days off... people have evenings off... people have free time... some people have intensive schedules and little to no free time. but the events that are under scrutiny here will take anywhere from forty minutes to an hour or more! how can you be flexible to that end but not flexible to WHEN you can participate?
Use example of Sunday: Because we work until a certain time, ruling out 6PM DDelve start times, no 7PM DDelve start time, 8PM start time doesn't work because our main playing group is in 3 time zones so can't start this early, no 9PM DDelve start time, 10PM is too late to start on East coast because kid has to go to bed.....
This is just an example that we run into because the schedule doesn't allow a 9PM start nor can we start when we want to.
Seriously..... it is a pretty simple and straight forward concept that making players do things ONLY when the game designer wants them to is completely and utterly bogus and anyone who is fighting against the change haven't explained why this system actually works
0
cbrowne0329Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 293Arc User
be realistic. do you think i was really talking about going into your boss's office and saying 'hey dude... i gotta take all of next week off because i'm doing dungeon delves in neverwinter...' then we're obviously not on the same page here. people have days off... people have evenings off... people have free time... some people have intensive schedules and little to no free time. but the events that are under scrutiny here will take anywhere from forty minutes to an hour or more! how can you be flexible to that end but not flexible to WHEN you can participate?
if the chest content doesn't matter, then you have no problems at all because anyone can enter an epic dungeon at any time of the day or night. you'll just have to hope that you don't have a ninja looter in your group. but since most people that are running dungeon delves are looking for specific gear pieces, i'm saying that the opportunities are already there. if they never coincide with your schedule... that sucks. dungeon delves have to be a controlled event. if they feel like selling keys, they could still control the event then maybe that will eventually happen. but honestly, i think it will just open another can of worms for people that criticize everything that pwe does.
I work... and quite honestly the delves are either A) Before I get home or So late at night that I can't afford to lose sleep over it. So the logic of adjust to it... doesn't really work. The only work day that a delve happens on schedule good for me is Monday. As I play EVERY day... that just doesn't appeal to me. I'm sure it's the same for others.
0
cbrowne0329Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 293Arc User
T2 dungeon are bit longer. Easiest and faster is LPK, I did that one with 1st timers many times and it takes bout 35 mins if you don't wipe on final boss. FH, SP, TS and CK are close to 45 mins (again if you don't wipe). All times are with group of complete strangers and queued.
With premade/skilled group with gs>10k-11k you can do 3 LPK runs during event. FH, SP, TS, CK usually 2 times. I don't count pre-clears.
All without any type of CHEATING, EXPLOITING or SKIPPING content.
So maybe bogus times claims for your, but pretty much real times for me.
Yeah the only time it has ever taken me that long is typically with numbnuts trying exploits and can't fight bosses... SP drives me crazy with these guys. I've gone through in queue between 45mins to an hour. LFG who after the fact tell you they are going to exploit... 1+ hours or no success... so sick of the nubs.
For your edification a nub is not pronounced newb or ****.
Newb (short for newbies, is someone new to what you are trying to do, however, appears capable and able to learn) AKA Nube
**** (is for all intents and purposes is an idiot all around, and there is no hope for them)
Nub pronounced as it is spelled (N-uh-b) Is a useless appendage... something completely unhelpful and can lead to various frustrations)
0
xabersedgeMember, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 119Bounty Hunter
You really are splitting hairs when you say a producer is not a dev.
"This is totally intended and part of why we implement the events" does not sound like diplomatic side stepping and sounds like Iits explicity acknowledged as fine.
Whether you like it or want to do it, its not an exploit per a Cryptic employee.
I here them speaking about the implementation of events, not the implementation of a mechanic. It was intended, so thats why they made made the even? You can't even logically fit the right chronology into that statement. There is still nothing there that says EXPLICITLY "yes, logging out and in again, circumventing content, is an intended mechanic." They aren't saying yes or now because they can't fix it without breaking it harder, and they won't own up to that or the fact they didn't see it coming.
0
maisaanMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 166
edited September 2013
Yeah, we have talked about that in the guild as well, but instead of having to buy the key, it should be possible to pick it up by an npc during DD, one key pr char pr DD event and if your lucky to do the DD and it's still up, then you can pick up another one.
This will make DD event useful still.
The GG dungeon access shouldn't be removed from your inventory before you have done the dungeon and it should also be possible to access those dungeons all the time.
This will not prevent ppl from doing GG, I actually think more people would go in because you do not have to do all in one go.
For some ppl it's hard to do what they would like in this game, because there is no fix times and because the event times are so random.
0
xabersedgeMember, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 119Bounty Hunter
edited September 2013
The only issue I see with it being a drop is that it will become something to farm. If farmed it can be collected. Soon people will have no reason to do the DD because they have so many stored. It might actually kill the DD system if these keys get farmed to hard. I guess the same can be said if they were a zen item though as well, in which case the whole DD Key idea is fundamentally flawed, unless you can restrict the number of keys a person has through I given amount of time.
0
psyb3rtr011Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 340Arc User
The only issue I see with it being a drop is that it will become something to farm. If farmed it can be collected. Soon people will have no reason to do the DD because they have so many stored. It might actually kill the DD system if these keys get farmed to hard. I guess the same can be said if they were a zen item though as well, in which case the whole DD Key idea is fundamentally flawed, unless you can restrict the number of keys a person has through I given amount of time.
Which is why one a day was originally proposed.
What has been proposed since is, one a day, AND a combination of Seals, and other things that are currently all but useless in the game, but require farming to collect. Akin to what the Sharandar campaign has for the Rings/Cloak, Enchantments and Crescent Coin benefits of the Campaign Tree.
Psyb3rTr011
AKA Cyber Troll and Euben Hadd
0
filcMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Event times are not random, there are fix times in weekly cycle.
Is there any chance someone can post this cycle because I have been trying for months to see if there were any, but I always get to a point where I forget to note it again.
I am so bringing up like everything in this thread at the Dev Q&A tomorrow
With all respect, if you could bring up the skill check thread and the pvp thread in Gameplay, Combat and PvP section, I'd appreciate it!
"Every adventurer has two things in common: they don't like dying, and they love getting paid. The rest is just semantics." Brecken, famed mercenary of Baldur's Gate
To get back on topic, to have the ability to run a Delve when it is convenient for your group would be an improvement. It would also be nice to be able to run a full clear and be able to get the Chest rewards. Trying to get people to run a full clear during a Delve is virtually impossible. There are a few dungeons I have only been able to complete during a Delve, and only with PUGs that go in a straight line, with no deviations to the side rooms. I would like to see them at some point, actually have that Epic adventure that a dungeon is supposed to be, and get that Epic reward at the end. With a key system(or something similar), you could do that when you have the spare couple of hours to that. Shortening the dungeon is not the answer, that takes away from the experience.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
0
xabersedgeMember, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 119Bounty Hunter
edited September 2013
I completely agree. I found myself a guild that enjoys the dungeons for the dungeons sake. I have found more loots, experienced better fights, had fun solving the puzzles, and have seen more of the dungeons than I knew existed. It shouldn't be based on getting in the most runs during the DD, it ruins the experience. From a developer point of view, I would be pissed that all these ungrateful little pukes are speeding though and not even enjoying something that is actually very well crafted. Having a key gives you the option of taking your time, when you have the time, and really digging into the content.
0
pjdvMember, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 67
Is there any chance someone can post this cycle because I have been trying for months to see if there were any, but I always get to a point where I forget to note it again.
Schedule resets anywhere between 2 and 4AM EST. Adds 2 hours every day except thurs/friday: 1 hour
The most interesting time to play is clearly 1AM - 4AM EST :-( or so as this gives you lots of options as the schedule will repeat events to resynch the calendar. There is a pattern to that too but I have not posted below
Schedule currently is:
Ddelve, foundry, Tabernacle, AM, DC, Professions, Skirmish, Arena
Time, +1h, +1h, +30m, +30m, +30m, +30m, +1h then repeats
so it is on a 6 hour cycle.
Starting on Sunday:
Delve is at (EASTERN TIME):
2AM (from saturday schedule), 4AM, 10AM, 4PM, 10PM
Monday:
6, 12
Tuesday:
8,2
Wed:
4,10
Thurs:
5,11
Fri:
6,12
Sat:
8,2
Then repeat. With those start times for Delve you can calculate the other events using the offset at top of note
0
psyb3rtr011Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 340Arc User
I completely agree. I found myself a guild that enjoys the dungeons for the dungeons sake. I have found more loots, experienced better fights, had fun solving the puzzles, and have seen more of the dungeons than I knew existed. It shouldn't be based on getting in the most runs during the DD, it ruins the experience. From a developer point of view, I would be pissed that all these ungrateful little pukes are speeding though and not even enjoying something that is actually very well crafted. Having a key gives you the option of taking your time, when you have the time, and really digging into the content.
Excellent points. Well said.
Psyb3rTr011
AKA Cyber Troll and Euben Hadd
0
psyb3rtr011Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 340Arc User
Neat ideas! We'll take a look at these suggestions, thanks for posting!
I appreciate the reply, without a doubt.
"Every adventurer has two things in common: they don't like dying, and they love getting paid. The rest is just semantics." Brecken, famed mercenary of Baldur's Gate
What they shouldn't change is some of the creativity I have seen in some of the dungeons with puzzles, secret rooms, and hidden treasure chests. Personally I would like to see more dungeons with those elements included. Also traps that actually do serious damage, that require the Rogue to deactivate.
What they shouldn't change is some of the creativity I have seen in some of the dungeons with puzzles, secret rooms, and hidden treasure chests. Personally I would like to see more dungeons with those elements included. Also traps that actually do serious damage, that require the Rogue to deactivate.
I agree. I have a rogue and when I try t deactivate a trap so the group can go on, they already just walked all over it and had the cleric heal a bit at most XD I feel pretty useless.
Neat ideas! We'll take a look at these suggestions, thanks for posting!
So I just read the irc Q&A transcript and the lead producer mentioned that a revamping of the delve system is in the works. Good news for sure, I just hope they keep it simple and allow us one key per day.With the option to buy more keys for AD...
I completely agree. I found myself a guild that enjoys the dungeons for the dungeons sake. I have found more loots, experienced better fights, had fun solving the puzzles, and have seen more of the dungeons than I knew existed. It shouldn't be based on getting in the most runs during the DD, it ruins the experience. From a developer point of view, I would be pissed that all these ungrateful little pukes are speeding though and not even enjoying something that is actually very well crafted. Having a key gives you the option of taking your time, when you have the time, and really digging into the content.
They did add DD event for a reason, and I'm sure it didn't come as a surprise that people will squeeze in as many runs as possible during the event. (Same goes for reading the conversations or exploring the maps while levelling, they know not everyone care)
When people do DD events they WANT to get to the end chest and kill the end boss, outside DD event it doesn't really matter and you can take your time.
With no DD events and the key in your inventory until you have unlocked the end chest, people wouldn't have to try to squeeze in as many runs as possible and the excuse to glitch because of time pressure would be gone too and so would pre clear.
Sorry, but i think this idea is very bad. The real problem in my opinion is event istself. People play dungeon only when event is live, playing ouside event is useless. In other words, it is cryptic that say when players can play or not. I logged in some days ago and event was just finished and in my chat guild everyone was linking their trophies; i legged in the day after and event was sheduled after two hours, but I had only 1,5 h free, so also in this cases i could not play the dungeon...
remove events or "rework" it to let people play dungeons when they can/want, not when cryptic say. I don't like the key idea because this is another way to force us to spend resources while AH prices are already madly hight.
0
cbrowne0329Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 293Arc User
edited September 2013
DDO allows you to run EPIC dungeons once every 3 days... (unless you buy a dungeon timer pass)... After you hit the 3 days you can run it WHENEVER you want... but after you do, you have to wait another 3 days. Worked well for scheduling guild raids. We would have a raid night twice a week. Now this was not for regular dungeons... only the ones you had a chance to get epic gear out of... could take forever to get some loot... but hey...
So there are always trade offs... I'm sure most of the exploit crowd would hate this... and yes a lot of gear was also BoP.
I hope this will get changed soon. It has become too hard lately too join a random queue. Especially now that they almost always seem buggy. When queues pop already 1 player is red. And if you have a slot of 1 hour that will lead to the fact that you waste 1 hour without a full group being available. Happend twice yesterday. 2 DDs wasted because not one queued that popped (after lots of waiting) was working.
Haven't followed this thread so this might have come up already:
There should be a way to bypass the class-need restrictions on boss loot. Since the new BoP-rules and resulting AH prizes it's tempting to get cocky and turn into a ninja. I was all for the change back then, but now with the ability to choose your set items off the DD chest this is the way to gear up through dungeons. Community consensus is to greed on BoE stuff anyway so you could also just hardcode it into the game. Might just be a party-loot option or whatever.
Also some loot tables should be redefined. I don't get why you can get T1/T2 stuff off 10 minutes GG runs, but face a blue hell with Fulminorax. That's way off. Nobody expects him to drop a purple crafting item every run, but c'mon.
DDO allows you to run EPIC dungeons once every 3 days... (unless you buy a dungeon timer pass)... After you hit the 3 days you can run it WHENEVER you want... but after you do, you have to wait another 3 days. Worked well for scheduling guild raids. We would have a raid night twice a week. Now this was not for regular dungeons... only the ones you had a chance to get epic gear out of... could take forever to get some loot... but hey...
So there are always trade offs... I'm sure most of the exploit crowd would hate this... and yes a lot of gear was also BoP.
That was raids only though, we don't have actual raids here - I think most of the gear in this would be more on par to running epics (which we run till ransack about 8 x or so before moving on to the next area).
Loot was per individual for dungeons and bosses though, much like the DD chests everyone chases now with random loot run outside of that.
There should be a way to bypass the class-need restrictions on boss loot. Since the new BoP-rules and resulting AH prizes it's tempting to get cocky and turn into a ninja. I was all for the change back then, but now with the ability to choose your set items off the DD chest this is the way to gear up through dungeons. Community consensus is to greed on BoE stuff anyway so you could also just hardcode it into the game. Might just be a party-loot option or whatever.
I absolutely do not agree with the commentary to the effect of 'everyone agrees greed only' that I've seen from a few - that's not true. Many people want to be able to need on gear they will equip without getting screamed at. I would LOVE to see a reversal on the way BoP is done.
I think disabling the ability to roll need on something you own - but allowing a greed roll (if it's left as the current BoE system) would be an ideal - and might be a simple check for item through the system for it to decide if it allows a need from you or not (not making it unique so you cannot roll at all). I don't do coding so not sure if the option of a check before allowing need/greed through the system is possible.
Boss drops:BoP - thus (hopefully) allowing the people in the dungeon to actually gear up off their dungeon runs rather than greeding to AH the HAMSTER in hopes that they might eventually be able to buy their gear, which leads to my next point
Dungeon Delve chests: BoE - even if the same item is otherwise BoP for a boss drop. This would give you a guaranteed reward at the end of a DD that can be sold while still allowing new players to gear up rather than selling things in the hopes that eventually they can afford the drops that likely happened with them in PT.
Tokens: All rewards granted from tokens should be BOE - those are personal, guaranteed drops from each boss that the player(s) can save up to sell or break as they please. That would also mean reverting the wererat thief to a BoE companion.
The reversal on rewards granted from tokens being BoE would/should also include items obtained for tokens (the epic tokens only) from the new area. This would mean vendor bought Fabled Ilyanbruen set from the feyweild zones would be BoE - the Sharandar store items that cost AD plus other items gotten in the zone BoP.
The Proposed Solution
Keys, much like the lair keys in Sharandar zones. Players receive one free keys a day in which they can open the end chest of any dungeon, T1 or T2, whether there is a DD event or not. More keys can be acquired by various means. To prevent abuse and exploitation each dungeon would have a limit of two for the number of chests a single player could open in said dungeon each day.
I'd want to see one key (as a daily). The ability to buy 1 additional key (flag it something like a limited supply item from a vendor with the available supply being 1 per character, per day at the cost of AD.
I liked the suggestion someone made of having events/special spawns on the way to a boss based on mobs killed - something worth trying to get the drop on that everyone can need and will want to get, that is not class specific. (seals as someone said get left behind on occasion now because of the current BoP rules so those are out unless you change BoP again).
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
/Channel_Join NW_Legit_Community to run Dungeons without the exploits
Comments
Use example of Sunday: Because we work until a certain time, ruling out 6PM DDelve start times, no 7PM DDelve start time, 8PM start time doesn't work because our main playing group is in 3 time zones so can't start this early, no 9PM DDelve start time, 10PM is too late to start on East coast because kid has to go to bed.....
This is just an example that we run into because the schedule doesn't allow a 9PM start nor can we start when we want to.
Seriously..... it is a pretty simple and straight forward concept that making players do things ONLY when the game designer wants them to is completely and utterly bogus and anyone who is fighting against the change haven't explained why this system actually works
I work... and quite honestly the delves are either A) Before I get home or
Yeah the only time it has ever taken me that long is typically with numbnuts trying exploits and can't fight bosses... SP drives me crazy with these guys. I've gone through in queue between 45mins to an hour. LFG who after the fact tell you they are going to exploit... 1+ hours or no success... so sick of the nubs.
For your edification a nub is not pronounced newb or ****.
Newb (short for newbies, is someone new to what you are trying to do, however, appears capable and able to learn) AKA Nube
**** (is for all intents and purposes is an idiot all around, and there is no hope for them)
Nub pronounced as it is spelled (N-uh-b) Is a useless appendage... something completely unhelpful and can lead to various frustrations)
I here them speaking about the implementation of events, not the implementation of a mechanic. It was intended, so thats why they made made the even? You can't even logically fit the right chronology into that statement. There is still nothing there that says EXPLICITLY "yes, logging out and in again, circumventing content, is an intended mechanic." They aren't saying yes or now because they can't fix it without breaking it harder, and they won't own up to that or the fact they didn't see it coming.
This will make DD event useful still.
The GG dungeon access shouldn't be removed from your inventory before you have done the dungeon and it should also be possible to access those dungeons all the time.
This will not prevent ppl from doing GG, I actually think more people would go in because you do not have to do all in one go.
For some ppl it's hard to do what they would like in this game, because there is no fix times and because the event times are so random.
Which is why one a day was originally proposed.
What has been proposed since is, one a day, AND a combination of Seals, and other things that are currently all but useless in the game, but require farming to collect. Akin to what the Sharandar campaign has for the Rings/Cloak, Enchantments and Crescent Coin benefits of the Campaign Tree.
AKA Cyber Troll and Euben Hadd
Event times are not random, there are fix times in weekly cycle.
With all respect, if you could bring up the skill check thread and the pvp thread in Gameplay, Combat and PvP section, I'd appreciate it!
"D*mn wizards," said Morik the Rogue.
Learn what a GWF and GF really are: The History of Fighters
Link me the threads, and I will look. you too can be a part of this Q&A though. It's happening over IRC.
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?492451-Neverwinter-Developers-Live-Q-amp-A-on-IRC
theres the news post about it ^
Join in, ask anything!
Schedule resets anywhere between 2 and 4AM EST. Adds 2 hours every day except thurs/friday: 1 hour
The most interesting time to play is clearly 1AM - 4AM EST :-( or so as this gives you lots of options as the schedule will repeat events to resynch the calendar. There is a pattern to that too but I have not posted below
Schedule currently is:
Ddelve, foundry, Tabernacle, AM, DC, Professions, Skirmish, Arena
Time, +1h, +1h, +30m, +30m, +30m, +30m, +1h then repeats
so it is on a 6 hour cycle.
Starting on Sunday:
Delve is at (EASTERN TIME):
2AM (from saturday schedule), 4AM, 10AM, 4PM, 10PM
Monday:
6, 12
Tuesday:
8,2
Wed:
4,10
Thurs:
5,11
Fri:
6,12
Sat:
8,2
Then repeat. With those start times for Delve you can calculate the other events using the offset at top of note
Excellent points. Well said.
AKA Cyber Troll and Euben Hadd
And none of those times fits to my window of game time. Usually from 8:30 - 10:00 PM Philippine times.
AKA Cyber Troll and Euben Hadd
I appreciate the reply, without a doubt.
"D*mn wizards," said Morik the Rogue.
Learn what a GWF and GF really are: The History of Fighters
So I just read the irc Q&A transcript and the lead producer mentioned that a revamping of the delve system is in the works. Good news for sure, I just hope they keep it simple and allow us one key per day.With the option to buy more keys for AD...
They did add DD event for a reason, and I'm sure it didn't come as a surprise that people will squeeze in as many runs as possible during the event. (Same goes for reading the conversations or exploring the maps while levelling, they know not everyone care)
When people do DD events they WANT to get to the end chest and kill the end boss, outside DD event it doesn't really matter and you can take your time.
With no DD events and the key in your inventory until you have unlocked the end chest, people wouldn't have to try to squeeze in as many runs as possible and the excuse to glitch because of time pressure would be gone too and so would pre clear.
remove events or "rework" it to let people play dungeons when they can/want, not when cryptic say. I don't like the key idea because this is another way to force us to spend resources while AH prices are already madly hight.
So there are always trade offs... I'm sure most of the exploit crowd would hate this... and yes a lot of gear was also BoP.
There should be a way to bypass the class-need restrictions on boss loot. Since the new BoP-rules and resulting AH prizes it's tempting to get cocky and turn into a ninja. I was all for the change back then, but now with the ability to choose your set items off the DD chest this is the way to gear up through dungeons. Community consensus is to greed on BoE stuff anyway so you could also just hardcode it into the game. Might just be a party-loot option or whatever.
Also some loot tables should be redefined. I don't get why you can get T1/T2 stuff off 10 minutes GG runs, but face a blue hell with Fulminorax. That's way off. Nobody expects him to drop a purple crafting item every run, but c'mon.
That was raids only though, we don't have actual raids here - I think most of the gear in this would be more on par to running epics (which we run till ransack about 8 x or so before moving on to the next area).
Loot was per individual for dungeons and bosses though, much like the DD chests everyone chases now with random loot run outside of that.
I absolutely do not agree with the commentary to the effect of 'everyone agrees greed only' that I've seen from a few - that's not true. Many people want to be able to need on gear they will equip without getting screamed at. I would LOVE to see a reversal on the way BoP is done.
I think disabling the ability to roll need on something you own - but allowing a greed roll (if it's left as the current BoE system) would be an ideal - and might be a simple check for item through the system for it to decide if it allows a need from you or not (not making it unique so you cannot roll at all). I don't do coding so not sure if the option of a check before allowing need/greed through the system is possible.
Boss drops:BoP - thus (hopefully) allowing the people in the dungeon to actually gear up off their dungeon runs rather than greeding to AH the HAMSTER in hopes that they might eventually be able to buy their gear, which leads to my next point
Dungeon Delve chests: BoE - even if the same item is otherwise BoP for a boss drop. This would give you a guaranteed reward at the end of a DD that can be sold while still allowing new players to gear up rather than selling things in the hopes that eventually they can afford the drops that likely happened with them in PT.
Tokens: All rewards granted from tokens should be BOE - those are personal, guaranteed drops from each boss that the player(s) can save up to sell or break as they please. That would also mean reverting the wererat thief to a BoE companion.
The reversal on rewards granted from tokens being BoE would/should also include items obtained for tokens (the epic tokens only) from the new area. This would mean vendor bought Fabled Ilyanbruen set from the feyweild zones would be BoE - the Sharandar store items that cost AD plus other items gotten in the zone BoP.
I'd want to see one key (as a daily). The ability to buy 1 additional key (flag it something like a limited supply item from a vendor with the available supply being 1 per character, per day at the cost of AD.
I liked the suggestion someone made of having events/special spawns on the way to a boss based on mobs killed - something worth trying to get the drop on that everyone can need and will want to get, that is not class specific. (seals as someone said get left behind on occasion now because of the current BoP rules so those are out unless you change BoP again).