test content
Logo
What is the Arc Client?
Install Arc
Improving Dungeons: Dungeon Delve Keys
lobo0084
Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 663 Bounty Hunter
I'm going to focus this post on one of the many ways our current dungeons can be improved. As with all of these idea threads I make, I make no claim to owning the idea. I've heard others suggest it, thought it was great, and put my mind to trying to make it as reasonably applicable as possible while maintaining balance and the tone of the game.
Be aware that I believe such mechanics as loot drops, NPC AI, class imbalances and chest rewards are all component issues that have caused a failure in Neverwinters dungeon system. I will only address one of those concerns here, however.
Dungeon Delves
Dungeon Delves, or DD's, are a time-gated server-wide event that reward an individual player with a chest at the end of a long, drawn out and often difficult group-focused PvE encounter. The time for dungeon delves is on a rotating schedule for each day of the week in what appears to be an attempt to allow multiple time-zones to play together. As the event is time-gated, it also focuses on forcing more players into the queue for the event during that time, thus ensuring some level of playability even on smaller servers.
The Reward
As DD's are the primary (only?) source of T1 and T2 PvE gear, in a very gear-focused game, it is often required for a new player to either buy gear from another player who has run the dungeon in question during a DD event, or run the dungeon themselves during said event. As the bind-on-pickup changes have recently been made, there are far fewer items to be bought, and thus more requirement for the player to actually run the event in order to remain competitive.
The Issue
As dungeons are quite long and can take upwards of an hour or more to complete at times, the time-gate method of DD's can actually have a negative effect on player completion. As many players from all walks of lives and with varying schedules have found issue with the actual timing of the events, it's easily recognized that the time-gated principle, while awesome in idea form and as a bonus reward for queue and bringing players together, also hinders many from acquiring gear in a very gear-focused game.
The Proposed Solution
Keys, much like the lair keys in Sharandar zones. Players receive one free keys a day in which they can open the end chest of any dungeon, T1 or T2, whether there is a DD event or not. More keys can be acquired by various means. To prevent abuse and exploitation each dungeon would have a limit of two for the number of chests a single player could open in said dungeon each day.
Acquiring Keys
Using the Vault of Piety and Ardent Favor tokens, players can spend one token for one key, allowing the player to acquire at least one extra key per day. As well, players can spend 5k AD and 1 gold for another key.
Not Removing Dungeon Delves
Dungeon Delve time is not removed, however, and instead of rewarding the bonus chest, average drops during the dungeons are littered with higher level gear, enchants, and a possible rare green ward or extremely rare blue ward.
A Whole Rebuilt Dungeon System
This idea of adding keys to the dungeon system to expand on the DD events is just one part of a fully conceptualized dungeon rebuild, which could easily expand the purpose, re playability and enjoyment of the dungeon system of Neverwinter.
Other Ideas
Improving Dungeons: Skill Based Activities
Be aware that I believe such mechanics as loot drops, NPC AI, class imbalances and chest rewards are all component issues that have caused a failure in Neverwinters dungeon system. I will only address one of those concerns here, however.
Dungeon Delves
Dungeon Delves, or DD's, are a time-gated server-wide event that reward an individual player with a chest at the end of a long, drawn out and often difficult group-focused PvE encounter. The time for dungeon delves is on a rotating schedule for each day of the week in what appears to be an attempt to allow multiple time-zones to play together. As the event is time-gated, it also focuses on forcing more players into the queue for the event during that time, thus ensuring some level of playability even on smaller servers.
The Reward
As DD's are the primary (only?) source of T1 and T2 PvE gear, in a very gear-focused game, it is often required for a new player to either buy gear from another player who has run the dungeon in question during a DD event, or run the dungeon themselves during said event. As the bind-on-pickup changes have recently been made, there are far fewer items to be bought, and thus more requirement for the player to actually run the event in order to remain competitive.
The Issue
As dungeons are quite long and can take upwards of an hour or more to complete at times, the time-gate method of DD's can actually have a negative effect on player completion. As many players from all walks of lives and with varying schedules have found issue with the actual timing of the events, it's easily recognized that the time-gated principle, while awesome in idea form and as a bonus reward for queue and bringing players together, also hinders many from acquiring gear in a very gear-focused game.
The Proposed Solution
Keys, much like the lair keys in Sharandar zones. Players receive one free keys a day in which they can open the end chest of any dungeon, T1 or T2, whether there is a DD event or not. More keys can be acquired by various means. To prevent abuse and exploitation each dungeon would have a limit of two for the number of chests a single player could open in said dungeon each day.
Acquiring Keys
Using the Vault of Piety and Ardent Favor tokens, players can spend one token for one key, allowing the player to acquire at least one extra key per day. As well, players can spend 5k AD and 1 gold for another key.
Not Removing Dungeon Delves
Dungeon Delve time is not removed, however, and instead of rewarding the bonus chest, average drops during the dungeons are littered with higher level gear, enchants, and a possible rare green ward or extremely rare blue ward.
A Whole Rebuilt Dungeon System
This idea of adding keys to the dungeon system to expand on the DD events is just one part of a fully conceptualized dungeon rebuild, which could easily expand the purpose, re playability and enjoyment of the dungeon system of Neverwinter.
Other Ideas
Improving Dungeons: Skill Based Activities
"Every adventurer has two things in common: they don't like dying, and they love getting paid. The rest is just semantics." Brecken, famed mercenary of Baldur's Gate
"D*mn wizards," said Morik the Rogue.
Learn what a GWF and GF really are: The History of Fighters
"D*mn wizards," said Morik the Rogue.
Learn what a GWF and GF really are: The History of Fighters
Post edited by lobo0084 on
0
This discussion has been closed.
Comments
This was why I preferred unbound equipment myself. People who enjoyed the content could do the content and get some reward from it, and people who didn't enjoy the content could do other content and use those rewards to get the gear they wanted. Cryptic's unfortunate decision about binding is now making these other problems that much more serious. If we all HAVE to do high-level dungeons, even people who may not have guilds, friends online, or tons of time, then how is that going to be managed?
If Cryptic doesn't come up with something, they'll be left with only a core of hardcore players and maybe not even them when the others go.
As long as the regular timed DD event exists, however, people will still rush to finish them as quickly as possible, by any means. The timed event should either be removed, or make it so while it is running, the so-called "trash mobs" can grant seals or something. I don't know if I'd have them directly drop pieces of T1 or T2 gear, though. Maybe for every so many trash mobs killed, each player gets a random AD box, which has some amount of AD in it...
"Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark
Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
I agree and see the issue you point out. Timing is more about gating players into the same events than the rewards, per se. The idea of maintaining a secondary reward, I hoped, would continue to gate players who could run in that direction.
That said, I personally quit running with PUG's altogether. The idea as I present it would greatly benefit premades and those with less time, but I sincerely doubt it would completely remove the purpose of the time-gated DD event, as many of us would probably still wait till then for the chance at a ward or higher level enchant.
"D*mn wizards," said Morik the Rogue.
Learn what a GWF and GF really are: The History of Fighters
Although I'd say only one key per day, not two, with an option to buy for AD's and Gold, much like the Sharandar "dark key"s, would be better, in that it would keep things similar to current setups.
If you could provide evidence to that, I'm sure you'd see a remarkable number of dungeons being run by all kinds of players. Currently the mindset is that if you don't run it during DD, you don't get anything. Plus, the random 'pick your item' option in chests isn't something to ignore, either.
"D*mn wizards," said Morik the Rogue.
Learn what a GWF and GF really are: The History of Fighters
edit: oh you mean drop rate is better on non-dd? that's the way it seems from everyone i know who runs dungeons.
The reason I chose two is because, on a good day, I can personally attend two or three DD runs. I know that many, if not most, players have a hard time attending one. But there are those who could attend every DD in a day. I felt that two was a good median to meet at, honestly.
"D*mn wizards," said Morik the Rogue.
Learn what a GWF and GF really are: The History of Fighters
Hmm. You make it sound so confrontational.
I won't deny that players run dungeons all day long, as I have and many others have. I have not noticed any noticeable increase in drop rate, though, and have found that many of my runs are complete wastes outside of DD because I have received the option to pick my gear and used it to my advantage.
My own opinion would change if either I had noticed the trend myself, or had some facts laid on the table. Don't take this as questioning your honesty, just as making an observation that a little derived evidence, which you hinted at in your first reply, would go a long way.
"D*mn wizards," said Morik the Rogue.
Learn what a GWF and GF really are: The History of Fighters
If it is to prevent people from kicking others from group add a timer to deny being kicked so if you afk for to long you can be kicked (like 5 min timer or something).
How many times havent somebody gone link-dead, left couse of whatever reason, rage quit etc etc and the HOLE group had to leave the dungeon.
Why even force 5 players to enter let from 2-5 players enter allow preclearing etc etc the number of adds (if you do it the right way, not mady do) are more then enough to make you wanna scream if you do dungeons on regular basis.
Not that i think key example is bad in any way ).
I'd also love to see some of the dungeons toned down a bit. My guild likes to battle through the dungeon rather than do suicide runs from one campfire to the next but DPSing through something like spellplague can take 2 more hours even with an extremely high DPS group. And it's boring. There's no challenge to it, it's just grinding through the enemies ridiculous amount of hitpoints for hours on end. Reducing the overall hitpoints on some of the mobs and reducing the overall number of mobs wouldn't decrease the challenge but would allow you to get to the end without being bored out of your skull. Leave the bosses alone if you like but do something to decrease travel time between bosses.
Guilds will be able to form consistent groups for dungeons, those who are on at around the same time will be able to run dungeons when they are ready, not have the chance to run a dungeon because they all happen to log on when the DD is up, These timers need to be done away with asap.
I find it a shame that the 'Dungeons' of this 'D&D' game provide such a negative experience for so many players that we just don't participate. It's especially hard on new players, with that first LVL 60, gung ho and charging in, suddenly finding exploiters, farmers, quitters, or getting overwhelmed by vast numbers of adds with seemingly endless HPs. I don't see running off potential long term paying customers as good business.
+10 to the OP
Problem with exploiters lies in dungeons themselves, which at current state are typical MMO instances with OP mobs and insane ammount of adds at every boss. I can understand few waves as boss hp goes down but constant waves? Come on! D&D should have better dungeons than that, with shortcuts (legit), choice how to deal with mobs (some activators that would annihilate them), bosses with tactics so fights would be not only hard but also entertaining (if someone thinks that current boss fights are entertaining then he must have 0 imagination) and rewards for everyone (OP idea is good step forward).
lvl 60 is a time management game from zynga. lol
Why ask for a workaround when you can ask for DD to be removed entirely. It's flat out bogus.
:::Patch:::
removed Dungeon Delves
converted all items to Bind on Equip
fixed queue system
queue system now works as intended
fixed player progression
added 18 types of currency
spoke to wizard
asked for brain
wait, he's just a man?
added mount to zen market
added zen rewards
added zen companion
added zen sales event
p.s. zen
I like ordensmarschall's idea of the keys dropping randomly. This would stop the people who just run past all the mobs to the end boss for the chest.
I have many alts, I am a class and race rainbow.
No one wants to buy a key to unlock a chest that may give them a useless item for less than the cost of the key. I foresee this being a major problem dependent upon the cost of said keys. If the chest were guaranteed to hand out their set of armor when using a key, that would be useless also since it would remove the incentive to group up and do the dungeon after acquiring a specific set piece. Limiting the amount of time a person can receive an item from the chest while using keys removes the incentive to purchase keys.
Almost there.
Maybe I'm reading your wording wrong, but it would be nice if an instance dungeon were able to replace any player that was not kicked without being disconnected ; a player that instead of finishing the dungeon left or rage quit (exit) would be replaced. However, I would disagree with inviting players into a dungeon.
I play every day after 7pm so so on some days I don't have DD event. Idea of "key" is tempting, coz it would give me an option to have mine "DD event" every time i want, BUT ...
DD event is not here to get guarantee loot for me. DD event is here to compress "interest" to one hour, so you can actually run that dungeon with PUG group. Maybe I'm selfish, but actually I don't want others to run dungeon in diff hours. It would lower my chance to get group.
So, no. As much as I like the idea to run and get DD reward anytime I want, I prefer higher chance to get group in specified time.
1. you can basically only queue for dungeons when dd is up. even worse for everyone under 60.
2. if you could not find a group after 5 minutes when dd started you might sit there waiting the rest of the time without a queue popping up.
3. the timeframes at the moment are against anyone that is working in real life.
4. some dungeons make only sense to run during dd time. for others to learn there aren't enough players queue to pop it. like spider - why would anyone run THIS dungeon other than dd times???
5. when you have alts you play occassionally you have to decide if you waste your timing waiting for the queue on your main or on one of your alts. you definitely miss a lot of opportunities to join then.
keys should be given out like any other daily quest with a time reset if you have used one to get another key. would be quite easy to implement. if you have a key while in a dungeon you could use it. otherwise you can run the dungeon but won't be able to unlock the chest.
Hmmm, Interesting concept. Perhaps this is a compromise for those who like the DD system as it is, and those who agree with the OP.
This could be a better use for Ardent Coins, and/or the various Lion, Manticore, Pegasus, Unicorn Seals. Say, something like 5 Ardent Coins, and one or two of each of the Seals gets you a key? A Key that can be used anytime, and not just during a DD, and give the same bonus.
It would give people a reason to run other dungeons to get the various Seals too... Especially, if certain Dungeons only gave one type of Seal, and to acquire a full set, you would have to run each of them at least once or twice to collect enough seals for a Key.
As it stands now, Ardent Coins are a waste, unless you play for half a year or so. The Seals are an even bigger waste, as most people seem to leave them lying on the ground in Dungeon Runs.
AKA Cyber Troll and Euben Hadd
I think having a daily quest actually GIVE you a key would be a great idea!!! people would actually run DD all the time, instead of noone (practically) plays oustide DD hours at all, except for rings and exploit fast runs.
Forcing groups to actually kill a set number of adds in a map in order to unlock the chest/or enable epic loot drops from boss would also be a solution to map exploits...
I've seen similar suggestions before.
I hardly ever get the time to do the DD, even when i have allot of online time, It is rare that I get the time to be at the computer for the long time the DD requires.
and when i do have the time, DD just ended or something similar.. quite annoying. (curse of having a life).....
I like the idea of DD (event timers) but it's rare I can fix my time on the specific times. so a Key would suit me better specially since it's a Bind on pickup anyhow.
Or hell instead of just random... make it a number of monsters killed = one of 12 different rares spawn... each you have to get to in a certtain time period... who always drops a rare item.
Just something... something to make the dungeons more interesting ALL the time. blegh DDO spoiled me. I wish I could combine mechanics from DDO with this combat system. I would be truly happy then.