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We need an economic stimulus package...
joncans
Member Posts: 158 Bounty Hunter
In real world economics, when the economy is tough, or prices inflated, one method used to promote consumerism is to offer economic stimulus packages; i.e. tax credits. Lately I have been solely saving in an effort to upgrade from 7's to 8, and upgrade from lesser vorpal, lesser soulforge.
About 2-3 weeks (right before BoP patch) I was exchanging Zen to AD around 350 per Zen, upwards to 365 in some cases. Last night I noticed I had 100 Zen sitting around, went to exchange it and was surprised that it was 325. To me this makes NO sense. Everything on the AH is expensive, that I fully understand. But with exchange rates being this low where is the incentive to purchase Zen with prices being so high?
Maybe the problem is with sellers having an inflated sense of value. In fact I have a Lifedrinker enchant that has been on the market for 10 days. Each time I listed it for 700k, which was what the only 2 other Lifedrinkers were listed at. Last night, I removed it and put it back up for 500k (a major loss for me) in an effort just to move it.
Discuss: should sellers adjust prices (even though supply of BiS equip/enchants are rarer than ever) or should the current exchange rate be called into question?
About 2-3 weeks (right before BoP patch) I was exchanging Zen to AD around 350 per Zen, upwards to 365 in some cases. Last night I noticed I had 100 Zen sitting around, went to exchange it and was surprised that it was 325. To me this makes NO sense. Everything on the AH is expensive, that I fully understand. But with exchange rates being this low where is the incentive to purchase Zen with prices being so high?
Maybe the problem is with sellers having an inflated sense of value. In fact I have a Lifedrinker enchant that has been on the market for 10 days. Each time I listed it for 700k, which was what the only 2 other Lifedrinkers were listed at. Last night, I removed it and put it back up for 500k (a major loss for me) in an effort just to move it.
Discuss: should sellers adjust prices (even though supply of BiS equip/enchants are rarer than ever) or should the current exchange rate be called into question?
BladeRunner-Proud member of the BlackCloaks.
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Comments
I know this message isn't going to get anywhere cause I'm going to get flamed on my political statements... This is not a "country" where everyone is trying to "help each other out" this is a game with a business economy where everyone wants top dollar for their goods/time and doesn't care (generally) about everyone else other than possibly guild mates.
I make much greater profits after the patch and am very happy with changes from a business standpoint. Of course no one wants lifedrinker b/c there are not better alternatives. Life drinker used to be good on GWF tank, now they can uses terror if they wanted necrotic damage or Bronzewood for > mark damage, or even feytouched to lower their damage taken (rather than straight healing) while also recieving a bigger damage buff. Lifedrinker is just bad lol.
We are definitely dominating, and we are always about to win.
Best example frost ring of hrimnir,sold one 180k 2 days after patch,sold 2 for 85k each and took 2 days to sold them last week.
Secondly i can;t understand how you guys think that some people will fall in to buy something that is overpriced.I will take your example of the lifedrinker enchant.You need 5 coal wards and 16 shards to make it.that goes up to at most 580k.Why should someone give 700k for that and not fuse one himself?
Okay, so are you agreeing with me? As a business man would you not like to see more AD flowing into the economy? I believe we play on the same server as I have played against your CW in PVP (me: BladeRunner) and from what I can tell the AH is stagnant for 60's. THere is not a lot of product, and the prices are very high. That is fine, but with refine limits, and the current exchange rate, how often is someone selling a Timeless piece for 1.3-1.5 mil AD?
When I put the Lifedrinker up, the auto price calculated is about 722k AD. On Mindflayer there are 2 others currently listed for 700k. As I said, I removed mine, dropped the price 200k to promote the sales. I am not a greedy person, but it's a major hit to my own wallet as I originally purchased it not knowing much about it (didn't know you needed LifeSteal stats to get it to work).
I have made a lot of money from smaller sales, pyro band for 100k, random weapons/offhands for 50-90k, smaller things for 15-30k. But my amount of new rough AD has gone up substancially, and my constant income if I run dungeons has gone up substantially. This is my first very big ticket item that I've gotten so we'll if it sells. The other timeless hero armors are up for 1.15mil and 1.3mil. Mine also has by far the lowest bid at 750k just in case no one will buy it out I don't want to lose the 15k posting fee heh
We are definitely dominating, and we are always about to win.
I do not believe that a stimulus of either AD or Zen will work, and in fact, would argue that we already have that at least in the form of daily prayers. Its earning a measly 2000 zen a day if you pray all three times, but it is, in fact free AD with no effort: i.e. a stimulus. Increasing this may help, may not.
In the end, if you can make friends or get in a decent guild, run GG or DD two, maybe three times a week, you can easily rake in the AD (and this IS sans exploits. Although exploits do equate to a higher AD return, typically.) In the end, NW really is set up that Hard work and a bit of luck will help you to grow your AD stash.
AND, if you have the time to kill, you can always do surveys for Zen and convert that Zen into AD (Mindflayer's sell rate sticks around 330 - 335 which SUCKS, but eh. It is what it is.)
Manipulating the Zen or AD ratio would render my argument moot, I believe, but they already do that by setting ceiling and floor caps. Any more than that and it'd be kind of ridiculous.
So yeah, don't agree with a stimulus, as nice as it would be.
The influx of Zen depend SOLELY on players buying Zen for NW (unlike other games like Aeria games, Zen are tied to specific game and cannot be transfer between games ONCE it is set to a specific game. i.e. You can't move Zen that are in NW to STO for example)
Couple of factors to remember. (please note this is a VERY simplified version of economics presentation. There are some minor and conjunction that could change the market, but I'll list some basic things that could effect AD/Zen changes)
Increase value of AD means that the exchange is lower. i.e. 100AD to 1z vs 200AD to 1z. 100AD to 1z means the value of AD increase. It is worth more and thus a good thing for AD earners.
Increase value of Zen means that the exchange is higher. 1z = 300AD vs 1z = 200AD. 300AD is good for the Zen seller cause they will get more for their bucks.
Market AD/Zen are control by the PLAYERS. This is your basic supply vs demand.
AD sink/purchase - This takes AD out of the system. It is same as government taking money out of circulation. Increase value of AD.
Zen Sales - This will cause influx of Zen and thus lower the value of Zen.
AD bundle with packs - this will cause DECREASE value of AD. (higher exchange rate)
increase refine cap - it will DECREASE value of AD since it will put more AD into the market.
The exchange is dropping (increase value of AD) because of the extra AD that was inserted into the market are being used up (mounts, stuff, etc etc)
BoP does change the market quite a bit. It put less item on AH and thus increase the value of said item on AH. the value can change BUT with the salvage option there IS a minimum value as you can gain rough AD from recycling your epics.
Keep in mind that AD shops and Zen shops are fixed price. Anything on the AH are depend on players that are WILLING to pay the price in AD (which can change)
Please review my campaign and I'll return the favor.
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?486201-2-months-200-and-you-still-lost-me&p=6051921#post6051921
You're getting this worked up over a minor shift of ~25 points? Wow.
(Also, not really seeing 325 as very low, but then I'm kind of used to the exchange on STO, which has hovered around the 90-140 range for the past year.
Anyway, it makes sense for the rate to be up around the release of the patch (high demand for zen, since Big New Stuff was coming), and for it to drop somewhat in the weeks later (people have their Big New Stuff, less demand for zen, therefore zen less valuable -> exchange rate shift).
Treat it like the stock market. When the zen price is down, you don't whine about it - you buy more zen. Sell when the price is high. Rinse, repeat. I made around 5K zen during this low point and I anticipate something is going to happen to drive the price way up again soonish (a zen market sale, or something similar to the Lillend event).
Exactly. There's simply nothing going on right now this very second that's driving players to want stuff from the Zen store. When there is, that rate will climb again.
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Not worked up, I was just curious as to me it seems that it kills any desire to spend real money on Zen, which seems counter intuitive for a F2P game with a marketplace. If things in the AH are very expensive, then instead of grinding some people would prefer just to spend real money for the AD. When the exchange rate is worse than pre BoP that is a further deterrent to spend money on Zen.
I was probably just spoiled pre BoP. With the rate the game is going I am surprised they just aren't doing what Diablo 3 did and remove the AH altogether.
I just PVP now. If you spent $200 on a game, you'd want something out of it too. Killing time before Wildstar.
Completely different game model. Everyone who plays Diablo 3 paid up-front to be able to play it. Transactions aren't integral to keeping it going.
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mariachis en bogota
Like I said, I'm used to their other game where the exchange rate dropped all the way down to ~87 (before rebounding to 110-130) from 300+. With plenty of "OMG, economy doooooooooomed!" threads. And the economy still seems to be going strong a year later. There's several times as many zen in the STO exchange as there are in the NW one.
(of course, there's nothing in that game, outside of some Guild projects - which are supposed to be funded by groups to spread the burden - that come anywhere close to the AD cost of the expensive things here.)
True. Until NW get guild houses and benefits to upgrades (like STO) there won't be that much sink.
As per cost, well, we do have Ship packs (50$ packs for 3 ships) which is pricy to some, but the ships have more use than a mount of $40.
Please review my campaign and I'll return the favor.
As a side note, selling stuff on the AH is not creating AD. It's just moving it from one player to another. Invoking, leadership, dailies, and salvaging are where AD comes from. Actually this isn't much of a side note. It's really one of the most important things to understand about the game economy. If you don't understand it, it should be your top priority to figure it out.
This entire topic is about the opposite of what you said. I want nothing with Zen. I'm talking about the Zen to AD conversion not balancing with what the sellers are wanting for end level uber character upgrades, Rank 8's and up, Greater's and up, you know 1%er stuff.
If player's don't spend real money for Zen to AD, you have a broke *** community, thus effecting sellers profits on crafted goods and dungeon farming drops. All I am really saying is from my observation the economy seems a bit off, whether it's the sellers inflated value projections or Zen to AD, not sure.
How does it not make sense? Last month the enchanted key sale and Nightmare Thursday sent zen prices skyrocketing. The exchange rate has been steadily dropping since then as players compete to unload that zen they no longer want or need. That's basic economics. If you want higher zen prices, just be patient. I'm sure sometime in the next month there will be some sort of sale or event that will push prices higher once again. It's an up and down process, sort of (but not quite) like real-life currency exchanges.
Many do have an inflated sense of value. The best thing to do if you have a big ticket item is to wait and see what things are really selling for. This can save you a lot of trouble and AD. Pay attention instead of blindly following the heard.
And if you wanna make AD, here's a good plan to follow:
1. Obtain items when they are cheap and plentiful.
2. Sell these items when they are more rare.
3. Profit.
Of course for that you have to be patient instead of screaming "NOW! NOW! NOW! NOW!" every time you face some sort of inconvenience.
Heh, you just basically state the stock exchange like commodity market
Please review my campaign and I'll return the favor.
Makes sense, again I'm not upset, not sure where that angle is coming from. Personally I am not impatient. I'm sitting pretty with 15.1 GS, and 290k refined, another 300k or so in unrefined, with some enchants sitting on the AH. And I do analyse the market, dropped my Lifedrinker 200k off the going price (700k). Will probably settle for 250-300 since nobody seems to be slotting these.
But I do think the AH is stagnant for 60's. Nobody is buying Timeless or Rank 8's and up. Trust me I check everyday multiple times. Zen to AD boost would probably solve that a bit, hence the title of the thread.
Apologies for assuming you were upset, the general attitude on this forum is one of whining impatience so I just take it for granted.
I don't feel the AH is stagnant, but that's from personal experience only. High price items have always moved pretty slowly.
While I understand the concerns about the AD/Zen rate it's a bad idea for Cryptic to intervene directly by artificially adjusting the rate. That's somewhat akin to just printing more money in the real world, and that rarely works out for anyone. Better for them to affect the rate indirectly via things like discounts, sales, and other deals in the zen store. I don't doubt things will turn around soon.
All of this would make a good research topic for any economic students out there.
PinkSugar, lvl 60 CW.
Baby Cakes, lvl 60 GWF.
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There is NO pvp in Neverwinter.
hey mods, can we sticky this information? this is top notch stuff!!
The best part there was the "I quit threads are not allowed by the TOS"
that cracked me up.. A juvenile statement to try and keep juveniles in line..
Seriously, All and any feedback is good feedback, If I host a bbq, and people just left, i'd be wondering what I did wrong..
Clearly this company thinks the sun shines from their dark brown place.. (rolls eyes)
(just for the mods sakes, yes I actually love the game and have no intentions of quitting, but if I do, i'll leave quietly)
[if only an open adsl port would turn up at my exchange since moving (next door)!! grrr!!!]
Didn't you say you deleted the game?! so what your binary alt owns means zip.. let go, or shut up and keep playing..
No-one said you have to own the ultimate gear, or have the most zen.. enjoy the journey, play for free, it's kinda fun, and if anyone is stupid enough to pay money for virtual stuff and then whine about doing so several times, well then their opinion based on darwins law is null and void!