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pvp is a huge let down

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  • vortix44vortix44 Member Posts: 680 Bounty Hunter
    edited September 2013
    pzg33 wrote: »
    rogue spec when they never leave stealth and still kill you is so awful it defies sense

    I read a pvp tournament was organized by players (hint admins hint) and won not by TRs but by CWs. So, there are actually certain classes with certain dedicated builds who can beat a TR.
    Now of course if you come with your gwf or DC, no need to whine like this, they've been designed to lose in PvP.
    English is not my first language.
  • kingculexkingculex Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    removed because it is not constructive.
    Every class has advantages and disadvantages. Learn the disadvantages of you class to overcome them. Learn the advantages of your class and the disadvatages of other classes to use them in pvp to win.

    There is no point to whine for nerfs because you win some and loose some. Crying just makes a player look like a crier and no one, especially the devs, should take them seriously. Have a nice day!:)
  • garsenspaniusgarsenspanius Member Posts: 10 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    This game has Block shield from magic damage, LOL ;) (It's like physical defense can block poison hahaha) stupid devs ^_^
  • skalt112skalt112 Member Posts: 1,089 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    cribstaxxx wrote: »
    For him to come to the conclusions he did I can only infer that he is a very fresh 60 with little to no gear, as the only time I've ever though classes we're imbalanced was the first week or so that I played 60 PvP.

    My guess is he hit 60, at best bought a non-set epic or 2 from AH and ran into a premade on his first Q.

    Insulting people based on inferences. This is why there can't be world peace. :p
  • vorphiedvorphied Member Posts: 1,870 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    For what it's worth, there truly is a steep learning curve for understanding class balance in PvP.

    That isn't to say that it's perfect as-is, because it surely isn't. But understanding the mechanics of each class makes a HUGE difference in how you PvP. No one really believes this until they've graduated from "Class X is just impossibly OP and it's not fair!" to "Oh, NOW I understand what's going on here." You might still get owned in the case of genuine class imbalance or just rock-paper-scissors mechanics, but it won't be nearly as awful as it was before you knew more about the game.

    I never tell people things like "L2P" because it's the best way to get someone to stop listening to you, but if you strip away the derogatory connotation, that's exactly many people need to do.
    Sacrilege - Warlock
    Contagion - Cleric
    Testament - Wizard
    Pestilence - Ranger
    Dominion - Paladin

    NIGHTSWATCH

  • kingculexkingculex Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    vorphied wrote: »
    For what it's worth, there truly is a steep learning curve for understanding class balance in PvP.

    That isn't to say that it's perfect as-is, because it surely isn't. But understanding the mechanics of each class makes a HUGE difference in how you PvP. No one really believes this until they've graduated from "Class X is just impossibly OP and it's not fair!" to "Oh, NOW I understand what's going on here." You might still get owned in the case of genuine class imbalance or just rock-paper-scissors mechanics, but it won't be nearly as awful as it was before you knew more about the game.

    I never tell people things like "L2P" because it's the best way to get someone to stop listening to you, but if you strip away the derogatory connotation, that's exactly many people need to do.

    Oh I tried helping people who were crying for nerfs. I even watched whole threads where other players made suggestion to help the player that is crying and the player who is crying argued against every suggestion.
    Every class has advantages and disadvantages. Learn the disadvantages of you class to overcome them. Learn the advantages of your class and the disadvatages of other classes to use them in pvp to win.

    There is no point to whine for nerfs because you win some and loose some. Crying just makes a player look like a crier and no one, especially the devs, should take them seriously. Have a nice day!:)
  • l3l3l3l3l3l3l3l3 Member Posts: 73
    edited September 2013
    zacazu wrote: »
    I agree with kingculex. Sorry to disappoint, but there are players in pvp MUCH BETTER GEARED than me and you. I hope the best geared always wins.

    Fixed. ;)

    /10char
  • cribstaxxxcribstaxxx Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 1,300 Bounty Hunter
    edited September 2013
    skalt112 wrote: »
    Insulting people based on inferences. This is why there can't be world peace. :p

    I didn't insult him at all, I said he was new and inexperienced. I was once new and inexperienced and came to the same conclusions, but rather than come to the forum and beg for everyone else to be nerfed I practiced, got better gear, and became better at PvP.

    Now I'm going to be insulting =P

    @goddess: If you seriously think that an "average" geared TR is going to destroy non-pugs you are very foolish, and I would assume have never fought a good premade. TR have one of the most stringent gear requirements to be good in competitive PvP. I can be at the top spot in pug PvP on every class except DC consistently, it means nothing b/c you're playing a random thrown together team with an average GS of 10k and most of whom are inexperienced and just want their daily AD.

    @Vorphied: You are completely correct, you put a lot of what I post about PvP in a "nicer" way lol, so hopefully they will listen to you =)
    Guild Master of <Enemy Team>
    We are definitely dominating, and we are always about to win.
  • vorphiedvorphied Member Posts: 1,870 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    kingculex wrote: »
    Oh I tried helping people who were crying for nerfs. I even watched whole threads where other players made suggestion to help the player that is crying and the player who is crying argued against every suggestion.

    It's just a difficult discussion, and few people will listen with an open mind because they are already frustrated and in the mood to argue. I find it's usually experience that teaches people that MAYBE there's more to the situation than they had first realized.

    TRs and Stealth are the common example. Understanding the mechanic doesn't mean it can't be challenging to deal with, but it does make the difference between a challenging fight and an impossible one, and it promotes more educated balance discussion (as opposed to "nerf it all!")
    Sacrilege - Warlock
    Contagion - Cleric
    Testament - Wizard
    Pestilence - Ranger
    Dominion - Paladin

    NIGHTSWATCH

  • kingculexkingculex Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    vorphied wrote: »
    It's just a difficult discussion, and few people will listen with an open mind because they are already frustrated and in the mood to argue. I find it's usually experience that teaches people that MAYBE there's more to the situation than they had first realized.

    TRs and Stealth are the common example. Understanding the mechanic doesn't mean it can't be challenging to deal with, but it does make the difference between a challenging fight and an impossible one, and it promotes more educated balance discussion (as opposed to "nerf it all!")

    You have a genuine point and its depressing that the "nerf it all" mind set is so common. Nerfs hurt the game more than help it and several people seem to be unable to figure out that all classes will be nerfed instead of one. The last two balancing updates clearly show every class will be nerfed at the same time in the name of "balance". That is why I am against all nerfs to all classes.
    Every class has advantages and disadvantages. Learn the disadvantages of you class to overcome them. Learn the advantages of your class and the disadvatages of other classes to use them in pvp to win.

    There is no point to whine for nerfs because you win some and loose some. Crying just makes a player look like a crier and no one, especially the devs, should take them seriously. Have a nice day!:)
  • cbrowne0329cbrowne0329 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 293 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    kingculex wrote: »
    Good bye and so long. Have a nice day:)

    I second that.
  • cbrowne0329cbrowne0329 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 293 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    lobo0084 wrote: »
    Every complaint he made ... was made as a CW.

    As a forwarning, as I had a guildie last night yelling at rogues: rogues trash CW's. That's their bread and butter, the easiest kill they have. Their job is to kill CW's first and foremost, most games.

    Watch a CW attack a GF, and you'll realize what the CW is for. My GWF can swing on a GF for an age and barely break it down, but a CW will rip them to shreds ... and easy, too.

    Every class has it's nemesis and it's victim.

    Tips for you in PvP:

    - Make sure your part of a solid team. PUG's in any game fail, but in this game fail hardest due to the average lack of intelligence of most players as well as an overall lack of communication in PUG's. PvP requires a team to play, and a well-geared team that's communicating does best.

    - Get your gear up. Nobody ever said that there aren't high GS players who suck. But I will tell you this, a high-GS player who knows what he's doing will beat a better, lower-GS player every time. Gear does matter, especially enchants.

    - Focus on the objective. Don't just go for the kill. If the target runs, sometimes it's best to let them. If you kill someone, leave them lying on the ground begging for help. Better to have them weak running around like idiots than full health and respawned in 8 seconds.


    There is room for a lot of improvement, for sure. But until the game is live for at least six months to a year, I'm going to hold onto it and see how it goes. The MMO world does NOT move fast.

    Lobo for Prez.
  • goddessuniquegoddessunique Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    cribstaxxx wrote: »
    @goddess: If you seriously think that an "average" geared TR is going to destroy non-pugs you are very foolish, and I would assume have never fought a good premade.

    We(I) wasn't talking about premades. lol I don't know of ANY premades that have rogues with regular t1 gear and I wouldn't dare try to fight a premade team that have bis, tene and teamwork like that. But I see your point.
    Queen of Dragon Server
    Goddess Uniique, lvl 60 DC.
    PinkSugar, lvl 60 CW.
    Baby Cakes, lvl 60 GWF.
    *******, lvl 60 TR.
    Premium Juicebox, lvl 60 CW.
    Pink Exxxtacy, Ranger

    There is NO pvp in Neverwinter.
  • cbrowne0329cbrowne0329 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 293 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    Dealing with a stealth rogue is not hard.

    GWF/GF just need to get close and stun lock them.
    CW just use Steal Time or Icy Terrian
    Other TRs just use their stealth too.
    DCs heal themselves and a die a lot.

    I read this one and laughed because it's generally the case. (I play all toons) But there is this one effing Cleric on Dragon who annoys me to no frigging end. I don't think I've EVER killed his OP ***. I've seen him tank up to 3 players with no problem. Yes I'm jelly! ;)
  • kingculexkingculex Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    I read this one and laughed because it's generally the case. (I play all toons) But there is this one effing Cleric on Dragon who annoys me to no frigging end. I don't think I've EVER killed his OP ***. I've seen him tank up to 3 players with no problem. Yes I'm jelly! ;)

    I've also seen a DC on Dragon shard who could just about kill anything and could tank which was shocking. Might be the same DC, but it goes to show that any class can be OP in PVP with the right gear and a skilled player. I wonder what the DC sacrificed to be that way.
    Every class has advantages and disadvantages. Learn the disadvantages of you class to overcome them. Learn the advantages of your class and the disadvatages of other classes to use them in pvp to win.

    There is no point to whine for nerfs because you win some and loose some. Crying just makes a player look like a crier and no one, especially the devs, should take them seriously. Have a nice day!:)
  • kingculexkingculex Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    cribstaxxx wrote: »
    @goddess: If you seriously think that an "average" geared TR is going to destroy non-pugs you are very foolish, and I would assume have never fought a good premade. TR have one of the most stringent gear requirements to be good in competitive PvP. I can be at the top spot in pug PvP on every class except DC consistently, it means nothing b/c you're playing a random thrown together team with an average GS of 10k and most of whom are inexperienced and just want their daily AD.

    I agree with this to be honest. Common TRs like me play PVP for the challenge and I use pug teams. Part of the challenge is using pug teams to fight against partly permades or full premades. There are even premades being used in GG. A pug team does not know its facing a premade until it starts and it takes true skill to win with a pug. It takes a pug team having BIS gear and being skilled to do any good against premades. The only premade team that has consistently defeated the pug teams I've played in is full or partial premades made by lemonade stand.

    This is the win loose ratios I have noticed.
    My Pug vs Pug (Each team equally geared.)
    50/50 chance of winning. <-Tenebrous and BiS gear is becoming very common.

    My PUG vs Pug(undergeared team versus higher geared team)
    40/60 <-Team work and the other team concentrating on killing instead of capping are the only way to win.

    My Pug vs Partial Premade
    20/80 <-Team work and the other team concentrating on killing instead of capping are the only way to win.

    My PUG vs Partial Premade(undergeared team versus higher premade)
    10/90 <-Still fun because it is a challenge.


    My Pug vs Premade
    10/90 <-Team work and the other team concentrating on killing instead of capping are the only way to win.

    My PUG vs Premade(undergeared team versus higher premade)
    5/95 <-Still fun because it is a challenge.
    Every class has advantages and disadvantages. Learn the disadvantages of you class to overcome them. Learn the advantages of your class and the disadvatages of other classes to use them in pvp to win.

    There is no point to whine for nerfs because you win some and loose some. Crying just makes a player look like a crier and no one, especially the devs, should take them seriously. Have a nice day!:)
  • zacazuzacazu Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,934 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    l3l3l3l3 wrote: »
    Fixed. ;)

    /10char

    I use google translator to write my posts, and I do not know if I say what I want to say ... hahha. but there are players who are even better.

    these days I found a gwf who tried to teach me how to make a combo sure strike with 7/8 hits. I can still only 5/6. is evident that he is a superior player ... the world is large, and we are not the center of it ...
  • hdviauxiihdviauxii Member Posts: 2
    edited September 2013
    Hi

    I know this is off topic and its not the right place to ask but I cant make a f**king thread because pwe makes you wait 3 months before you can do anything (like seriously why dafuq they do this....)

    Anyways, why can't I join PvP rooms? I try to queue and it says Im "Too high level to join domination", but I'm only level 26 (like...wut?) I was playing fine a few levels ago...and how can you be too high level to PvP I never heard any bull like that before. This wouldn't bug me so much if they even elaborated just a LITTLE but nope...I have no idea if this is a bug or not, I don't even know when I can PvP again.... Can someone please help me I have no where to ask!?!
  • kingculexkingculex Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    hdviauxii wrote: »
    Hi

    I know this is off topic and its not the right place to ask but I cant make a f**king thread because pwe makes you wait 3 months before you can do anything (like seriously why dafuq they do this....)

    Anyways, why can't I join PvP rooms? I try to queue and it says Im "Too high level to join domination", but I'm only level 26 (like...wut?) I was playing fine a few levels ago...and how can you be too high level to PvP I never heard any bull like that before. This wouldn't bug me so much if they even elaborated just a LITTLE but nope...I have no idea if this is a bug or not, I don't even know when I can PvP again.... Can someone please help me I have no where to ask!?!

    How are you queuing? Are you using "K" to bring up the list of queues or talking to the "Domination Battlemaster" in the trade of blades? I think it is a glitch with the "Domination Battlemaster" in the trader of blades because it says the same thing to me.
    Every class has advantages and disadvantages. Learn the disadvantages of you class to overcome them. Learn the advantages of your class and the disadvatages of other classes to use them in pvp to win.

    There is no point to whine for nerfs because you win some and loose some. Crying just makes a player look like a crier and no one, especially the devs, should take them seriously. Have a nice day!:)
  • hdviauxiihdviauxii Member Posts: 2
    edited September 2013
    I was using the domination master. but i didn't know i can queue using K lol. I think I can just use K for now. Figures it would be yet another game breaking glitch that will never get fixed...
  • kingculexkingculex Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    hdviauxii wrote: »
    I was using the domination master. but i didn't know i can queue using K lol. I think I can just use K for now. Figures it would be yet another game breaking glitch that will never get fixed...

    I think the Domination Master is only there to introduce people to pvp when they reach the level where it is a quest.
    Every class has advantages and disadvantages. Learn the disadvantages of you class to overcome them. Learn the advantages of your class and the disadvatages of other classes to use them in pvp to win.

    There is no point to whine for nerfs because you win some and loose some. Crying just makes a player look like a crier and no one, especially the devs, should take them seriously. Have a nice day!:)
  • hdviauxiihdviauxii Member Posts: 2
    edited September 2013
    kingculex wrote: »
    I think the Domination Master is only there to introduce people to pvp when they reach the level where it is a quest.

    Well if thats the case, then maybe they should actually TELL you that instead of confusing the f**k out of you talkin bout some " you too low level" like wtf....
  • cribstaxxxcribstaxxx Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 1,300 Bounty Hunter
    edited September 2013
    98% of forum questions could be answered on the spot with /zone Hey how do I do this?
    Guild Master of <Enemy Team>
    We are definitely dominating, and we are always about to win.
  • bracer2bracer2 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 566 Bounty Hunter
    edited September 2013
    Agreed, worst pvp ever. Open world pvp is the only legitimate way to do it.
  • dragoness10dragoness10 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 780 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    One must work with what one is presented with in the moment rather than bemoan in future about what has been past failures.

    PvP is how you play it, and how you get along with other people not just what stats you have. Trying to be more social WILL help you get gear, learn better tactics, improve your build, and have others look forwards to PvPing with/ against you more reguarly.
    " I tried to figure out the enigma that was you, and then I realized mastering Wild Magic was easier." - Old Wizard in Waterdeep

    "Why is it dragons only use ketchup? I'd like a little wasabi please. Us silvers like a variety of condiments."

    "Don't call them foolish mortals. One, they don't learn from it. Two, It just ticks them off." - An Ancient Red Dragon
  • piratebeypiratebey Member Posts: 3 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    EH. The reason I am dissapointed in the pvp system is there is no way to face your friends specifically.
    No 1v1. No dueling. If they made it so you could duel anywhere and against anyone like most games do that would be epic.
    Imagine testing yourself against fellow guild members or friends in the middle of MT hotenow. Possibly dueling in the lava just because thats epic.
    To bad they havent come out with that yet.
  • cribstaxxxcribstaxxx Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 1,300 Bounty Hunter
    edited September 2013
    bracer2 wrote: »
    Agreed, worst pvp ever. Open world pvp is the only legitimate way to do it.

    Lol yes where 2 full groups of fully geared players run around hunting random wanderers... those are the only real pro's. now that the sarcasm is over, PvP is most fun with even matchups, hence why a matching system is needed, and leaving penalties soon after.
    Guild Master of <Enemy Team>
    We are definitely dominating, and we are always about to win.
  • grimahgrimah Member Posts: 1,658 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    im pretty good at pvp, and i think PvP is a joke. 2 maps, a 20 vs 20 pvp that doesnt work well at all.

    Am i the only one who agrees with the OP and thinks that shooting/damaging from stealth is stupid?
    Creator of the featured survival horror foundry: "The Silence of Haydenwick" Video Review
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  • cribstaxxxcribstaxxx Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 1,300 Bounty Hunter
    edited September 2013
    grimah wrote: »
    im pretty good at pvp, and i think PvP is a joke. 2 maps, a 20 vs 20 pvp that doesnt work well at all.

    Am i the only one who agrees with the OP and thinks that shooting/damaging from stealth is stupid?

    I agree that we need more maps, game modes, and some kind of change to GG so that it doesn't just feel like a horse race.

    Damage from stealth is as much a class feature for TR and Divinity or Unstoppable is to DC/GWF. The entire feat system would have to be revamped and all "while stealthed" bonuses removed (there are tons) not to mention every TR would have the exact same setup - Lashing Blade, ItC, Impact shot - Max damage and survivability without stealth, would make the class completely linear and boring. Also people would still come crying to the forums as every single TR would just be building Vorpal and maximizing their single LB damage, so low geared folks would still be getting destroyed by LB + impact with P. Vorpal, and there would be no CC retaliation b/c of ItC. Squishies would just die, and then the TR would die, it would make TR/DC/CW all boring. At least as it is now there is variation, I don't run LB, Impact, or ItC currently.
    Guild Master of <Enemy Team>
    We are definitely dominating, and we are always about to win.
  • amadan78amadan78 Member Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    it feels a little unbalanced (i come from guild wars 2 where pvp is considered unbalanced but in comparison it is perfect).
    an easy fix would be to separate arena for premade teams and pugs, so to improve the chance of victory of pugs and the challenge for teams (gw2 took almost a year to figure it out).
    and, but this is my personal taste biased by previous experience, gear shouldn't matter at all in pvp every player should have the possibility to gear up and change build just for pvp outside of pve for free and have fancy cosmetics paying with glory. otherwise it is unfair from the very beginning
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