Perhaps ... as long as there are enough players who buy Zen. If not, it won't matter how "dedicated", laid-back and cool everyone left in the game thinks they are.
Lol people who are having fun are going to spend ... And people are still spending big, just log in and look around ... This really isnt something to worry about.
People who are complaining about the game mostly never actually leave. They just love to complain, so don't fool yourself thinking that only the ones that like the game will stay, because as in all games, there will be lots of haters.
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fathomfulMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 207Bounty Hunter
Well guys all your attemps at math are in vain. Just browse twitch and see how many people are currently streaming Neverwinter.
That's right....a big fat 0...nada ....NONE...niente.........did I say "nada" yet....yeah I did.
*pokesitwithastick* .....yeeeeaaaaah seems pretty......(let's not use the word "dead") deserted to me. That's just my observation though. I might be wrong, it might be the time of the day i checked that NOONE was streaming this "game". Miracles happen !!! Keep believing.
My GM streams every single day with a really nice viewership rating. (after subtracting guild members)
inthefade462Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited September 2013
The methodology is sound for what i was tracking and it just so happens it allows me to with 100% certainty prove that the population is down. You are just upset that i have evidence and you do not.
As i wasnt tracking leveling zones i have nothing but anecdotal evidence to suggest that those zones are much less populated the 4 times ive leveled alts since the first time i went through them. I can say with absolute certainty that there are less people leveling now than when i first leveled in open beta, but again its simply anecdotal evidence, i didnt track those numbers over time like i did pe/dungeons.
Of course you offer even less than anecdotes. You suggest that 70% of the population took 3 months to level up and gear and by some miraculously timing, all happened to reroll the day fotf came out and are all now hiding on a low level alts spending another 3 months to reach cap and begin running dungeons again, completely ignoring module 1 content entirely. Lol
Lol people who are having fun are going to spend ... And people are still spending big, just log in and look around ... This really isnt something to worry about.
I hope you're right.
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beckylunaticMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 14,231Arc User
Well guys all your attemps at math are in vain. Just browse twitch and see how many people are currently streaming Neverwinter.
That's right....a big fat 0...nada ....NONE...niente.........did I say "nada" yet....yeah I did.
*pokesitwithastick* .....yeeeeaaaaah seems pretty......(let's not use the word "dead") deserted to me. That's just my observation though. I might be wrong, it might be the time of the day i checked that NOONE was streaming this "game". Miracles happen !!! Keep believing.
3 streams at the time of writing; 1 streaming CN speedruns and the other 2 are low level streamers. All 3 combined have 20 viewers.
Sad, isn't it? Maybe not.. as far as I remember this game was never that popular to stream, even when it was in beta. People just don't like to watch others playing neverwinter i guess (including myself).
theres just not that much to do (apart from foundry) after you get your gear. The first reason being, people used to run dungeons regularly as a source of AD and upgrade their toons with enchants and such.
And secondly alot of players i know (cant say for everyone) were not interested in the feywild, since it takes weeks of doing dailies to get a bit of progression, which i am actually surprised i thought the boons would hook people on, but the opposite effect seemed to happen. atleast with the people i played with. And the same types were put off by the drop rates/randomness as well as requirements to get the next step in gear (from malabog) and ended up ignoring it. Some others stopped playing because of the exploits in there making the dungeon more of a grind than a fun dungeon.
I have to agree about the dailies, I dont understand what the idea was behind it, to make people enjoy the game more by having to do dailies for 3 months?
Im out of suggestions of what could be done, but hey im no game designer.
inthefade, no one is saying population has not decreased, as someone previously said, it's expectable in all MMO's after the initial hype goes down. But your method is useless to know HOW much it has decreased.
Come down from cloud nine and be realistic. Counting instance populations, even in a scheduled timeframe, is pointless. <- Wanna know why that is? Because it is completely random HOW MANY people decide to login at any given time. The only real data able to determine how many people are active, lies within the hands of cryptic/pwe. Not ours.
This has the ring of truth, but nevertheless inthefade462 presents some compelling evidence of a drastic decline in active players. But really, I don't need his analysis to tell me that there are a lot less people playing on Beholder. I can tell that just by logging in and traveling through the zones. I don't think whether or not there's a decline in the number of players is debatable, really. There has definitely been a noticable decline. What's debatable is how much of a decline and why it happened.
People who are complaining about the game mostly never actually leave. They just love to complain, so don't fool yourself thinking that only the ones that like the game will stay, because as in all games, there will be lots of haters.
You are wrong, here's why and how.
I stopped playing 3 weeks after launch and so did my 10+ buddies who i dragged into this "game" to join me(Once again, if you guys read this, I'm very very very sorry). Some of those, including me, had bought the 200$ pack. I'm not even mad at the wasted money( Accounts starting at 0,99cents on ebay with several 60s characters. So literally wasted money, no resell value), 200$ isn't really that much for working people(I meant highly edumacatered people,....not...yeah you know...). Getting back to my point - I ain't even mad, I'm more saddened by the degenerated state of the gaming industry.
I browse these forums every now and then for it's comical attributes. Posts like yours never seize to amaze me. It's like that situation when two dogs just had intercourse and are stuck to each other afterwards - it's painful to watch them suffer but you just can't help to chuckle a little bit. You certainly can't go in there and try to separate them ( <--- this is a metaphor for trying to talk sense into people).
Been here every other week seeing people like you posting things like you did - just to see those exact people start complaining one week later and lining up with the "haters" a week later.
By hating on the haters you have also proven that you don't seem to understand the concept of criticism. It might not feel good, it might hurt your feelings but don't forget that the "hater" actually still cares about the "game" topic,product insert whatever - and is trying to make a change. Those posts have receded almost completely. What does that tell you ? Just because most posts nowadays are double-rainbow full on doesn't actually mean everything is sparkly-fluffy
See what i did there ?
Your Go , entertain me
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inthefade462Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
inthefade, no one is saying population has not decreased, as someone previously said, it's expectable in all MMO's after the initial hype goes down. But your method is useless to know HOW much it has decreased.
Actually on the contrary it is the only thing it is useful for; determining exactly how much the population has dropped. The answer is 65-70% (avg of weekday and weekend numbers).
My initial goal was to somehow measure the total number of players of which its useless for that. Only cryptic knows.
The methodology is sound for what i was tracking and it just so happens it allows me to with 100% certainty prove that the population is down. You are just upset that i have evidence and you do not.
As i wasnt tracking leveling zones i have nothing but anecdotal evidence to suggest that those zones are much less populated the 4 times ive leveled alts since the first time i went through them. I can say with absolute certainty that there are less people leveling now than when i first leveled in open beta, but again its simply anecdotal evidence, i didnt track those numbers over time like i did pe/dungeons.
Of course you offer even less than anecdotes. You suggest that 70% of the population took 3 months to level up and gear and by some miraculously timing, all happened to reroll the day fotf came out and are all now hiding on a low level alts spending another 3 months to reach cap and begin running dungeons again, completely ignoring module 1 content entirely. Lol
LOL!!
No it is terribly flawed for many reasons only one variable of which I pointed out. Maybe it is rather you whom are mad due to the fact all of this typing you did, to explain why you know the population is down, is so easily invalidated?
Also, you really haven't provided any evidence. You have provided 0 backup. All you have done is stated a conclusion and explained the method used to reach it, but you have provided no actual data.
No it is terribly flawed for many reasons only one variable of which I pointed out. Maybe it is rather you whom are mad due to the fact all of this typing you did, to explain why you know the population is down, is so easily invalidated?
Also, you really haven't provided any evidence. You have provided 0 backup. All you have done is stated a conclusion and explained the method used to reach it, but you have provided no actual data.
Yeah ... the population being down isn't really debatable. Sorry, I know it sucks, but it's definitely the truth. At least on Beholder, anyway.
I stopped playing 3 weeks after launch and so did my 10+ buddies who i dragged into this "game" to join me(Once again, if you guys read this, I'm very very very sorry). Some of those, including me, had bought the 200$ pack. I'm not even mad at the wasted money( Accounts starting at 0,99cents on ebay with several 60s characters. So literally wasted money, no resell value), 200$ isn't really that much for working people(I meant highly edumacatered people,....not...yeah you know...). Getting back to my point - I ain't even mad, I'm more saddened by the degenerated state of the gaming industry.
I browse these forums every now and then for it's comical attributes. Posts like yours never seize to amaze me. It's like that situation when two dogs just had intercourse and are stuck to each other afterwards - it's painful to watch them suffer but you just can't help to chuckle a little bit. You certainly can't go in there and try to separate them ( <--- this is a metaphor for trying to talk sense into people).
Been here every other week seeing people like you posting things like you did - just to see those exact people start complaining one week later and lining up with the "haters" a week later.
By hating on the haters you have also proven that you don't seem to understand the concept of criticism. It might not feel good, it might hurt your feelings but don't forget that the "hater" actually still cares about the "game" topic,product insert whatever - and is trying to make a change. Those posts have receded almost completely. What does that tell you ? Just because most posts nowadays are double-rainbow full on doesn't actually mean everything is sparkly-fluffy
See what i did there ?
Your Go , entertain me
I don't remember ever saying I "hated" haters. I just said they mostly never leave and just love to stay and complain.
Also, your analogy is funny because you, being a person who doesn't play the game anymore but still comes back to the forums to be "entertained" as you say, probably fit much better in your analogy of the 2 stuck dogs after intercourse. As someone who wants to leave but apparently, can't.
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bpskibbenheimsMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 210Bounty Hunter
Speaking as someone who has visited these forums since playing during open beta, the forum numbers have dropped from multiple 100s to not breaking a 100. Denial is not a river in egypt.
It is definitly down, but how much an for what reasons? It's a 3+ month old game ... If it wasn't down then PwE has achieved something phenomenal.
The debate is how much and why and if it spells doom.
I agree.
I don't think it spells doom per se (depending on how you define "doom"), but I do think the chances that Neverwinter will ever be the level of MMO it could have been are virtually nonexistent now, and the game's management deserves 100% of the blame for the game's current trajectory. Bad situations have been far worse than they could have (and should have) been because they were handled poorly.
At least to me a game isn't really dead untill devs stop working on it, for example, to me CO is basically dead because the devs are not doing much in it besides adding lockboxes here and there, I hope that'll change that though, it was a great game once.
The devs in here are clearly working on the game, even if many times they don't fix what people want them to. So I don't see how people can claim the death of a new MMO so soon.
But as I said, every MMO has its share of "the end is near" people.
I will say I don't think the game is dead or doomed. I for one will get that **** angel companion no matter what.
That said, the population is down and down significantly. I play on Dragon which thankfully is one of the more populated ones. I can see the decrease with friends and guildies playing. Also in zone chat. We all remember how crazy it was even a month ago. The reasons are many, not all of them Cryptic's fault. I think that once they start putting out some more things for people to do, you will see more people coming back. The combat system is great and the big draw of the game.
At least to me a game isn't really dead untill devs stop working on it, for example, to me CO is basically dead because the devs are not doing much in it besides adding lockboxes here and there, I hope that'll change that though, it was a great game once.
The devs in here are clearly working on the game, even if many times they don't fix what people want them to. So I don't see how people can claim the death of a new MMO so soon.
But as I said, every MMO has its share of "the end is near" people.
Dungeon exploits fixed? Can you fill in for leavers in PvE or PvP per invite, queue ? Are all mounts equal speed in PvP yet? Cloak still stuck in the back of your head when you ride your noble steed? Has the economy been fixed after people generated BILLIONS in the first couple weeks? Gold-sellers still rampant?
What has that to do with anything I said?
I clearly said: "to me a game isn't dead till the devs stop working on it". Which has not happened in here, as you can see in patchnotes. The fact that there are lot of bugs around has nothing to do with my point.
I am pretty certian the fact that school started, summer is over has nothing to do with the change in population. This is a normal cycle for every game i have ever played. Hell, people were posting the same stuff about the death of DDO for the 5+ years i played that game.
The only think that has me cautious is what I have heard of cryptic and their 'pattern'. I would have no problem spending my 20 a month on zen as if i was subbing like several games i have played (why thee is not a subscription model has me baffled) but I am already 300 in and feel I get burned after each purchase (i got a unique race (Drow-Moon elf), mount (spider and unicorn), companion (pather) only to see them roll out a reskined version about a week later (i think fey pack pre-purchasers should have been able to choose between dawn and dark unicorn for example) And it is questionable ifd cryptic is simply doing a money grab and will move on, leaving the loyal (to neverwinter and D&D) hanging.
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inthefade462Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
It is definitly down, but how much an for what reasons? It's a 3+ month old game ... If it wasn't down then PwE has achieved something phenomenal.
The debate is how much and why and if it spells doom.
it is down a directly measurable amount precisely when a major patch was released, module 1. Its debatable which of the dumb things in that patch is more responsible than the other dumb things, but to pass it off as the "3 month blues" that certain terrible mmos have experienced recently is naive.
Whether population being down means doom or not you are free to debate
and it is debatable if it was the patch given it was released when school starts (college in particular) and football starts. Too many factors to determine the cause.
I am pretty certian the fact that school started, summer is over has nothing to do with the change in population. This is a normal cycle for every game i have ever played. Hell, people were posting the same stuff about the death of DDO for the 5+ years i played that game.
The only think that has me cautious is what I have heard of cryptic and their 'pattern'. I would have no problem spending my 20 a month on zen as if i was subbing like several games i have played (why thee is not a subscription model has me baffled) but I am already 300 in and feel I get burned after each purchase (i got a unique race (Drow-Moon elf), mount (spider and unicorn), companion (pather) only to see them roll out a reskined version about a week later (i think fey pack pre-purchasers should have been able to choose between dawn and dark unicorn for example) And it is questionable ifd cryptic is simply doing a money grab and will move on, leaving the loyal (to neverwinter and D&D) hanging.
When I refer to bad decisions in my posts, this is exactly the kind of thing I'm referring to. If PWE/Cryptic were interested in longevity for Neverwinter, why would they keep doing things they must know are going to HAMSTER people off (and the very people who they should want to keep happy, no less)? They don't seem interested in making people feel good about their investment whether that investment is time, money, or both. It's bad business and it's very hard to witness something so wonderful that I enjoy on the road to ruination.
Comments
Lol people who are having fun are going to spend ... And people are still spending big, just log in and look around ... This really isnt something to worry about.
My GM streams every single day with a really nice viewership rating. (after subtracting guild members)
I know there are others as well.
As i wasnt tracking leveling zones i have nothing but anecdotal evidence to suggest that those zones are much less populated the 4 times ive leveled alts since the first time i went through them. I can say with absolute certainty that there are less people leveling now than when i first leveled in open beta, but again its simply anecdotal evidence, i didnt track those numbers over time like i did pe/dungeons.
Of course you offer even less than anecdotes. You suggest that 70% of the population took 3 months to level up and gear and by some miraculously timing, all happened to reroll the day fotf came out and are all now hiding on a low level alts spending another 3 months to reach cap and begin running dungeons again, completely ignoring module 1 content entirely. Lol
I hope you're right.
Shouldn't all the livestreamers be in class right now?
Neverwinter Census 2017
All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
http://www.twitch.tv/directory/game/Neverwinter
3 streams at the time of writing; 1 streaming CN speedruns and the other 2 are low level streamers. All 3 combined have 20 viewers.
Sad, isn't it? Maybe not.. as far as I remember this game was never that popular to stream, even when it was in beta. People just don't like to watch others playing neverwinter i guess (including myself).
And secondly alot of players i know (cant say for everyone) were not interested in the feywild, since it takes weeks of doing dailies to get a bit of progression, which i am actually surprised i thought the boons would hook people on, but the opposite effect seemed to happen. atleast with the people i played with. And the same types were put off by the drop rates/randomness as well as requirements to get the next step in gear (from malabog) and ended up ignoring it. Some others stopped playing because of the exploits in there making the dungeon more of a grind than a fun dungeon.
I have to agree about the dailies, I dont understand what the idea was behind it, to make people enjoy the game more by having to do dailies for 3 months?
Im out of suggestions of what could be done, but hey im no game designer.
and also the featured satirical comedic adventure "A Call for Heroes".
This has the ring of truth, but nevertheless inthefade462 presents some compelling evidence of a drastic decline in active players. But really, I don't need his analysis to tell me that there are a lot less people playing on Beholder. I can tell that just by logging in and traveling through the zones. I don't think whether or not there's a decline in the number of players is debatable, really. There has definitely been a noticable decline. What's debatable is how much of a decline and why it happened.
You are wrong, here's why and how.
I stopped playing 3 weeks after launch and so did my 10+ buddies who i dragged into this "game" to join me(Once again, if you guys read this, I'm very very very sorry). Some of those, including me, had bought the 200$ pack. I'm not even mad at the wasted money( Accounts starting at 0,99cents on ebay with several 60s characters. So literally wasted money, no resell value), 200$ isn't really that much for working people(I meant highly edumacatered people,....not...yeah you know...). Getting back to my point - I ain't even mad, I'm more saddened by the degenerated state of the gaming industry.
I browse these forums every now and then for it's comical attributes. Posts like yours never seize to amaze me. It's like that situation when two dogs just had intercourse and are stuck to each other afterwards - it's painful to watch them suffer but you just can't help to chuckle a little bit. You certainly can't go in there and try to separate them ( <--- this is a metaphor for trying to talk sense into people).
Been here every other week seeing people like you posting things like you did - just to see those exact people start complaining one week later and lining up with the "haters" a week later.
By hating on the haters you have also proven that you don't seem to understand the concept of criticism. It might not feel good, it might hurt your feelings but don't forget that the "hater" actually still cares about the "game" topic,product insert whatever - and is trying to make a change. Those posts have receded almost completely. What does that tell you ? Just because most posts nowadays are double-rainbow full on doesn't actually mean everything is sparkly-fluffy
See what i did there ?
Your Go , entertain me
My initial goal was to somehow measure the total number of players of which its useless for that. Only cryptic knows.
I dare you.
Check any time of the day, 20 viewers tops on a good day.....right now...none.
LOL!!
No it is terribly flawed for many reasons only one variable of which I pointed out. Maybe it is rather you whom are mad due to the fact all of this typing you did, to explain why you know the population is down, is so easily invalidated?
Also, you really haven't provided any evidence. You have provided 0 backup. All you have done is stated a conclusion and explained the method used to reach it, but you have provided no actual data.
Yeah ... the population being down isn't really debatable. Sorry, I know it sucks, but it's definitely the truth. At least on Beholder, anyway.
I don't remember ever saying I "hated" haters. I just said they mostly never leave and just love to stay and complain.
Also, your analogy is funny because you, being a person who doesn't play the game anymore but still comes back to the forums to be "entertained" as you say, probably fit much better in your analogy of the 2 stuck dogs after intercourse. As someone who wants to leave but apparently, can't.
It is definitly down, but how much an for what reasons? It's a 3+ month old game ... If it wasn't down then PwE has achieved something phenomenal.
The debate is how much and why and if it spells doom.
I agree.
I don't think it spells doom per se (depending on how you define "doom"), but I do think the chances that Neverwinter will ever be the level of MMO it could have been are virtually nonexistent now, and the game's management deserves 100% of the blame for the game's current trajectory. Bad situations have been far worse than they could have (and should have) been because they were handled poorly.
The devs in here are clearly working on the game, even if many times they don't fix what people want them to. So I don't see how people can claim the death of a new MMO so soon.
But as I said, every MMO has its share of "the end is near" people.
That said, the population is down and down significantly. I play on Dragon which thankfully is one of the more populated ones. I can see the decrease with friends and guildies playing. Also in zone chat. We all remember how crazy it was even a month ago. The reasons are many, not all of them Cryptic's fault. I think that once they start putting out some more things for people to do, you will see more people coming back. The combat system is great and the big draw of the game.
Dungeon exploits fixed? Can you fill in for leavers in PvE or PvP per invite, queue ? Are all mounts equal speed in PvP yet? Cloak still stuck in the back of your head when you ride your noble steed? Has the economy been fixed after people generated BILLIONS in the first couple weeks? Gold-sellers still rampant?
I could go on and on.
Time to see the situation for what it is.
I clearly said: "to me a game isn't dead till the devs stop working on it". Which has not happened in here, as you can see in patchnotes. The fact that there are lot of bugs around has nothing to do with my point.
The only think that has me cautious is what I have heard of cryptic and their 'pattern'. I would have no problem spending my 20 a month on zen as if i was subbing like several games i have played (why thee is not a subscription model has me baffled) but I am already 300 in and feel I get burned after each purchase (i got a unique race (Drow-Moon elf), mount (spider and unicorn), companion (pather) only to see them roll out a reskined version about a week later (i think fey pack pre-purchasers should have been able to choose between dawn and dark unicorn for example) And it is questionable ifd cryptic is simply doing a money grab and will move on, leaving the loyal (to neverwinter and D&D) hanging.
Whether population being down means doom or not you are free to debate
When I refer to bad decisions in my posts, this is exactly the kind of thing I'm referring to. If PWE/Cryptic were interested in longevity for Neverwinter, why would they keep doing things they must know are going to HAMSTER people off (and the very people who they should want to keep happy, no less)? They don't seem interested in making people feel good about their investment whether that investment is time, money, or both. It's bad business and it's very hard to witness something so wonderful that I enjoy on the road to ruination.