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For Devs:Summary of the biggest complain of the patch: Remove BOP please
gannicsgladiator
Member Posts: 413 Bounty Hunter
Just look around the forums after the update. what is the biggest complaint?
BoP and AD Daily Cap.
Come on guys, that was not a nice update, everything else, maps, enchants, i loved. But BoP and AD daily cap is not fun...
let me tell you what happened when you done it:
Old players had the AD, old players had the items and the gear.
means: old players can sell items expensiver to others old players only, because a new player has to play 10 days in the same char to get low 240k AD, which only buy lesser and weak items in AC.
if the intention of the AD Daily cap together with BoP of items in dungeons was to make people buy characters slots to make more dailies, really you failed. This is just <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>. why?
Dailies quests are ok when you do them once, after that it is just boring. It stops to be fun, and it becomes boring, and stressful. Why? because it stops to be fun, but it starts to be work (and a very low rewarding one).
So don't think obliging us to make tons of chars to make dailies will make we love your game, because it won't.
Some people like me, work all day, have college class, gym, and then i play for 2~3 hours when i am home before sleeping.
And what do i do? pvp dailies, some pvp with guild and boom. it is enough for the AD daily cap. and i dont have neither the time or the patience to login others chars to make more "daily "ad". so this means I Am going to make miserables 24k AD daily, because you guys Killed the "GG" PvP event, where i had fun, and i could go and sell items for 50k once in a while.
I could go minor dungeons like pirate king, or others end game dungeons sometimes do some profits. I could sell glory items in the AH and people would buy it. now i can salvage them, but the AD cap m akes it "dumb".
Please, make the game fun as it was before.
because once I am done with the sharandar daily quests and get all my boons, i will login probably about 1 hour a day or less to do some pvp with guild and logoff, and most likely not going to buy any zen in a game that i wont be spending as much time as before.
i started this game about 1month ago, and i really liked it. but the BoP has killed it so far for me, and many others players losing interest on it.
thank you very much.
BoP and AD Daily Cap.
Come on guys, that was not a nice update, everything else, maps, enchants, i loved. But BoP and AD daily cap is not fun...
let me tell you what happened when you done it:
Old players had the AD, old players had the items and the gear.
means: old players can sell items expensiver to others old players only, because a new player has to play 10 days in the same char to get low 240k AD, which only buy lesser and weak items in AC.
if the intention of the AD Daily cap together with BoP of items in dungeons was to make people buy characters slots to make more dailies, really you failed. This is just <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>. why?
Dailies quests are ok when you do them once, after that it is just boring. It stops to be fun, and it becomes boring, and stressful. Why? because it stops to be fun, but it starts to be work (and a very low rewarding one).
So don't think obliging us to make tons of chars to make dailies will make we love your game, because it won't.
Some people like me, work all day, have college class, gym, and then i play for 2~3 hours when i am home before sleeping.
And what do i do? pvp dailies, some pvp with guild and boom. it is enough for the AD daily cap. and i dont have neither the time or the patience to login others chars to make more "daily "ad". so this means I Am going to make miserables 24k AD daily, because you guys Killed the "GG" PvP event, where i had fun, and i could go and sell items for 50k once in a while.
I could go minor dungeons like pirate king, or others end game dungeons sometimes do some profits. I could sell glory items in the AH and people would buy it. now i can salvage them, but the AD cap m akes it "dumb".
Please, make the game fun as it was before.
because once I am done with the sharandar daily quests and get all my boons, i will login probably about 1 hour a day or less to do some pvp with guild and logoff, and most likely not going to buy any zen in a game that i wont be spending as much time as before.
i started this game about 1month ago, and i really liked it. but the BoP has killed it so far for me, and many others players losing interest on it.
thank you very much.
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Gannicus Destroyer, GWF Destroyer retired
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"There is only one way to be a champion..., Never ...ing lose"
Post edited by gannicsgladiator on
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Your post does not contain any of the following:
*Proper class balance ( not just random herping and derping with the nerf bat).
*Extra class/classes.
*Genuinely fun instances ( not just adds galore with ridicubos****points ).
*Fixing well reported bugs and exploits of both characters,instances and PvP arenas.
*Not being able to trade formorian concoctions in for fey tokens for t2 gear thus limiting access to endgame gear to instances you can't complete without exploiting.
As your post contains none of the above i cannot approve of it.
BoP is a horrible idea and imo just designed to artificially slow people's progress while pushing them to buy Zen.
Case in point: http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?477891-Neverwinter-Astral-Diamonds-Guide
Too many bugs are introduced with the patches and too many get 'fixed' by changing the tooltip.
Forcing people to install additional software they don't need (which in my definition IS bloatware) in order to install the game.
I loved Neverwinter, but the devs are taking it to a cash-driven, bug-ridden solo-game.
- BoP needs to change, Bound on 'need, not-bound on 'greed'
- We need a definitive and actual list of all known bugs
- The Devs need to communicate more on the what, why and how of what they're planning. Include the community more on the preview server.
Because as it stands right now, they're killing the game and I'm not playing.
All for profit games are cash driven. It's nice that the game accommodates solo play so well. Many MMOs do not. There are certainly some bugs that need working on.
BoP doesn't need to change. Not all find that objectionable.
We don't need a complete and definitive list of all bugs. It's not our job to fix them, and quite likely such a list doesn't even exist for those who do have that job.
The developers don't need to communicate more, but news about upcoming plans for the game is always welcome. They are probably reluctant to reveal future plans, as it will simply breed more... when will X be ready threads.
The game is still plenty occupied despite your absence, so it is hardly dying.
BoP actually makes this less of a solo game.
Being able to level a character to sixty in three days and have the AH so flooded with drops that all but a select few T2 sets are worth less than 100K AD (something most people have around level 60) there's a serious problem. That's a co-op speed. People reached level sixty and could do anything....they had nothing left to shoot for.
There are certainly people upset with BoP but most of them aren't really considering the true effects of the system. So many claim that the prices are purely to cause players to buy AD and I just want to scream every time I hear it. It's so wrong it's not even funny, it's rather infuriating.
Prices in the AH being high means you can now do dungeons and have a chance to get a drop worth money.
I agree that the loot rolls now need to be looked at again. We need "need rolls" to result in gear being BoP as well to discourage people to need on gear just to sell it on the AH but the loot potential is far greater than they ever were.
If all you see is the bigger price tag your missing the other side of the equation...somebody gets the bigger price tag's return and it isn't Cryptic.
When you see item drops selling for 100K each that means some other player is receiving 100K that you're spending.
You won't be able to get guaranteed drops to sell, no.
But you will get drops worth selling every time if you actually get the drops.
And that's why the Need and Greed buttons need to be reworked.
But the economy is far healthier now than it was before. The game economy is back where it should be for an MMO instead of all the loot being worth a pittance and progression being a matter of weeks/months instead of days.
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I agree. That wasn't necessarily a step forward though. I think MMORPGs would do well to support both group and solo players adequately to broaden their appeal as much as possible, so as to enable more revenue sources and thus more revenue.
It's always nice to have goals.
I'd probably be less keen on the changes if they hadn't also added the 'choose your chest loot' feature, but as they did, it works out wonderfully for those who want to work to gear up: you still have good reasons to run the dungeons, but with much lower dependence on the RNG gods.
So yes, complaining that you now need to work harder to gather the AD needed to buy your stuff off the AH is...kinda missing the entire point of the changes. It was not to make you buy zen for AD, it was to encourage you to actually run the dungeons.
1) not having 12k GS
2) not having a cat or stone companion
3) not experienced
and 4) not willing to exploit.
so BOP has just restricted a ton of people from ever gearing up or at the very least gonna make it utter hell to do so.
Slowing down is great, because then you can't P2G you up. And it's far more wish of the community for BoP as against it.
Well then the simple answer is to fix the queue system so that more players use it. It serves me no purpose if I cannot get a squad to run T2 dungeons.
Again, simple fix. Lower the exp gain in this game so we don't have so many 0-60 3day noobs running around. Its actually a far worse problem then most people seem to think. They level so fast that 1. there is no way to explore all aspects of the game. And 2. They level too fast to learn how to play their class correctly which also means that if you end up in a squad with them theres a good chance you may not complete the dungeon. Plus, how can we expect someone to queue for all the dungeons if you out level them by simply doing the quest lines?
I agree with you....kinda. But you cannot deny the fact that by making loot items that sell for 100k BoP you take away a big chunk of AD that we could make. I bought my T1 set from AH because I could never get a squad to run the dungeons. I paid somewhere around 300k for the whole set.....If I salvage the 4 pieces? I get a total of 24k ADs which hardly pays for 1 piece. So 40k maybe even lower if sold in AH or 6k at salvage.....yea I rather take my chances with AH.
Also lets not forget, since blue gear drops are now about as common as green gear drops the rest of the loot from the lower dungeons hardly sell at all. Why buy blue gear from someone when I can just wait for a normal mob to drop it?
BS!!! I've had no more luck getting a squad for T2 dungeons then I did before the patch. The only result I've seen is that I have less chances of getting my Dagger set from AH or at least I will have to pay even more....which is much harder since Im making less ADs.
Except that the more players selling the item causes the price of said item to drop. So while something new might start out selling for 100k after more players start selling the same item the price could drop as low as 50% thus making it easier for others to get the items they need.
We won't be able to get guaranteed drops to sell but we will get drops worth selling? Sorry but that just sounds like you're talking in circles although I will admit that maybe I'm just missing the point of what you're saying.
Glad you think so.
It's only you who wants BoP lol
I think what people wanted is BoP on Need and not BoP everywhere as Cryptic did...
BoP when everybody greed is not really a clever thing..
We already had that. The devs didn't like that and now we still have it, only with the trinkets and not the clothing.
"Need" should bind, "Greed" should not.
Initially I was more negative about this, because those ADs don't fall out of the sky. (Well, actually some do, but it won't pay the bills). Trinkets do sell for decent amounts, until players start flooding the AH with those as well, same as with the T1 and T2 gear. It doesn't fix anything, it just delays the same problem to occur a little further up the road.
Way I see it, putting the salvager in guarantees a lowest price, making sure stuff won't be sold too cheaply on the AH. And with only being able to sell stuff you got through 'greed' will permanently fix the issue of gearing up too quickly. Drop-rate and salvage-price can be far more easily tuned that the amount of time players are willing to spend grinding dungeons.
I disagree, the economy is in the same kind of flux as it was before. The delays are temporary and insufficient, making it needlessly harder for new players or alts to get gear and start grinding for better.
Can you say what thing BoP is? Only PvP-Sets are and DD-chest. I don't see anything else as bop so it's bull**** what you write. How often i get a purple piece in T2 running? Omg! 6+ times and i share it to my alt.
The new dungeon. The new mini dungeons. Many more , if not everythinkg that comes after. If i were running a country, i would give my right arm for people like you to populate it.
One change I would support is introduce a shared bank and change BoP items from BtC to BtA.
That's weird, first you start by saying BoP is fine and they you finish by stating why it isn't.
I'm a bit confused? It sounds like you agree that drop rates should have been reduced?
They were. The god awful chest which should have never been added was killed.
The DD Chest gave such an obscenely good reward rate that it flooded the market with items and caused players to only run dungeons at certain time frames. If that monstrosity didn't exist to begin with I doubt most people would be moaning as the progression would have been right where it should be.
Now I agree there should be something more to shoot for than gear progression but that's a more complicated matter. It would be great to have a unique drop for each player (other than seals unless they are made more useful) in order to reward every player who goes into a dungeon but giving gear left and right is exactly what we had and all it did was make progression far, far too fast and rewards often times worthless.
About a quarter of the items that dropped were less than 3-6K AD in the AH. Less than you can currently get from drops even if they don't sell on the AH. Most of them actually sell for a minimum of 20K now though and that is only possible due to the reduced rate of BoE drops.
However, what is most important about this change is that it, for the most part, reset the economy.
Obviously little by little the value of drops will decline as that is the nature of the world. The difference is that the progression has slowed down to a point where Cryptic can now look into additional means to keep the economy strong and stable be it through making professions more useful or adding in additional valuables into the game that players may shoot for.
Ultimately since the game is new the economy will be in a flux as there's really only so much to keep people occupied. The more things there are to do and the more things that players would want to shoot for the healthier the game and the economy will be but that will take time. And the BoP Chest changes have given them the time needed to make that possible.
Actually he didn't.
He's saying that it's better now than it was before but he feels the items should all be Bind to Account rather than bind to Character.
Basically the important thing to him, like me, is to prevent a lot of items from going into the market as this just causes drops to become worthless. I do feel the game would be far better off if items were Bound to Account rather than character. Especially in the cases of professions items.
The only things which were made BoP was the dungeon delve chests. Boss Drops are still BoE.
Lol. Only the purple ones are bound. The shards aren't! So you Q.Q about not-worthing purples?! Only the shard from MoH are bound, which can easily be combined to a lesser for trading. So what? Have you any argument against BoP? Since this thread i don't see one!
PS - Let's not get into the debate about what MMORPG stands for, and whether you think you should only get the best of everything by dungeon grouping. There are plenty of other ways I interact with people online, just not dungeons!
Indeed. Maybe not too much, but some degree of twinking should be allowed. Classless purples (rings, belts etc.), profession items, and such should definitely be tradable to your alts - though NOT on the general market.
Here's what I saw:
T1's selling for peanuts which you could get through a few dailies. People whit full T2 gear and enchants farming the T2's and selling the T1's they get as a side-catch. This meant the folks only being able to run T1's had a severe handicap in getting the T2 gear. It was either very expensive or they couldn't finish the T2 in their T1. Meanwhile, the fully decked people just keep farming.
The problem wasn't the drop-rate, it is that T1 stuff is dropping in T2 dungeons, gimping the T1 crowd.
The population is mostly TR and CW, with a few stubborn GWF's. Unless you run on your DC or GF, queing takes literally hours, and there's fierce competition between everyone else for the dungeons runs. Higher gearscore is a means to compete, which again means the T1 crowd gets the shaft. (Remember, you got to PLAY with people in order to BEFRIEND people. No dungeons=no friends)
So here's my option now: Go on my DC or GF and play, but I won't get the stuff for my alts. Or go on my TR, CW or GWF, wait for hours until I get my shot at the loot.
This wouldn't be a problem if queue-times would be more or less the same for all classes and it isn't solved by making every toon having to gear up from 0.
But this patch ensured that people ONLY play now during DD. If the event is not on there are hardly any queues to join. I've tried it with my GF (who usually has to wait only a few minutes), with DD not active the fastest I've seen is 30 minutes.
Maybe this will even out when the novelty of Fury of the Bugfest wears down, I hope so.
Just having the DD gear BoP would have been enough. I like the idea of choosing which set you want, but not at the cost of all the other stuff being BoP.
Gear-progression is the only thing shooting for in this game, all the other stuff is just playing with what you got. And they threw a monkey-wrench in there.
Supply and Demand, it's nothing more fancy than that. The extra side-catch of the T2 farmers simply outscaled the supply of T1 gear on the AH. Get rid of T1 drops from T2 dungeons, have the salvager set fixed minimum pricing and make only "need" bind.
Like I said, an artificial delay to keep people grinding and in need of ADs.
Ah, so it's an artificial delay aimed at giving the devs more time to come up with new content, while players grind and need more ADs.
Seriously, I'm not as black&white in this as it may appear, I just disagree with what the devs pigeonholed as the problem and therefor don't agree with the solution. I know there has to be a balance between free and payed for and it's a delicate balance. But I also strongly feel the devs are pushing the players way too much into the cash-shop without merit and at a cost to all players.
The way it was before: you could share stuff between alts.
The way it is now: you cannot share stuff between alts.
If you like how it is now but would rather still be able to share stuff, that's saying you like it better the way it was.
It's more than confusing to state that BoP is fine as it is and then proceed stating how it needs to change.
The basic "run dungeons, get loot" model is the only thing that's changed, and only during DD events. Outside of DDs they still behave exactly as they always did, as far as I'm aware. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
I'm also a bit confused as to why everyone seems to just assume the only way to get gear is buying it. The whole point was to discourage that approach and encourage running dungeons...which would have the additional benefit of forcing people to learn how to play their class, rather than having posts like "So I just hit 60 and bought my T2 and CN stuff, what enchants should I be using?"
You really shouldn't be able to buy and wear BiS gear as soon as you hit cap.
Getting T2 set is really far from being end game - end game is all about getting better enchants. And the game seriously looses point when a next progression of the character is so far away that you cant even see it (yes, I am talking about 8+ rank/greater enchants etc.). People are already leaving and I personaly dont know anyone who would be happy with BoP as it stopped progression of their characters.
Something must be done with DD chest as it is so pointless now. Maybe a chance to drop (BoP) coalescent ward/rank 6+ enchant/more shards/whatever - just "anything" so geared ppl will actually have a reason to run DD again. Also salvaging needs to give normal ADs, not rough...
This comment makes me believe you may be like the vast amount of players and have not been paying attention but rather running off completely false assumptions
Dungeon Delve Chest Drops are the ONLY aspect which has been made BoP.
Drops are still BoE.
There's nothing that came out of that chest which wasn't a boss drop.
The reason for running during dungeon delves has dropped signifgantly, and for the better.
People need to wake up, smell the coffee and realize that if you want to make money doing dungeons it comes from the boss drops. Boss drops are not effected by dungeon delves.
Farming for drops could be done at any time of the day now. The dungeon delves are no just a bonus where you will either have a chance for gear you need or a few thousand AD to refine. The main source of return comes from boss drops now and those aren't restricted, in any way shape or form, by the Dungeon Delve rotation.
Gather your friends and do dungeons. If you can agree to sell the loot at the end of the delve you'll be all the merrier.
No the way it was before was flooding the market with items. That's the problem. Always has been.
As long as the economy isn't flooded with items then we're good to go. Plus Dungeon Delve loot drops are only for your class so unless you plan on making alts of the same class, some people do, it will not massively effect the market.
You sir must have the paitence of a bloody siant. I have given up trying to explain to people why BOP was a good thing for the DD.
I am surprised you can actually write that with a straight face.
Bop actually makes it far more of a solo game, and I do not play any other MMO with an economy where each peice of gear sells in the millions and it costs $100 or more USD to equip a char. Any game that costs that much is fundamentally broken. I realize you are a mod, but please stop spewing such ridiculous assertions that this is the norm for a game. There are many games with a far far healthier economy that anything cryptic touches that do not even have anything bound except perhaps items that go to all characters on an account. I would even be happier with the bound items if they were bound to account instead of bound to character, but all cryptic looks at are the ignorant cheerleaders that scream how bind on pickup is good because it lets them keep their gear maxed while everyone else cant.
STOP LYING. I have been in DD's and seen boss drops that are BoP. And flooding the market as you put it wasn't hurting the economy it was helping it. IT was a GOOD thing to have gear at 20,000-50,000 range as it meant people were also able to buy other things besides the gear.