Where does Storm Pillar fit into this build? What would a typical spell rotation would be in mob and boss situations?
Storm Pillar is used to proc Destructive Wizardry. I recommend only using it when you're sure to hit more than one target with the primary strike and just after a Chilling Cloud rotation. Follow it up with a rotation of encounters.
What is the reasoning for taking Critical Power instead of Reaper's Touch?
My guess is that whenever mobs are within 20 feet, the idea is you are using Sudden Storm on them instead of your at-will powers, thus Reaper's Touch would go unused for the most part. Is this assumption correct?
Is the added AP gain from Critical Power significant enough to warrant taking it? I was thinking perhaps instead of Critical Power, one could take Elemental Empowerment. Thereby having 0 feat points in the renegade tree and 26 in the Thaumaturge one.
It seems like Critical Power would end up adding about 10% AP gain per 23-25 seconds, possibly 15% if the timing was fortunate. So, I can see how that would be very useful. Do you find yourself using the dailies as frequently as possible with this build?
I've respecced my character and followed your build exactly thus far. Just wanted to ask you those questions about the Feats before I finalize them.
I'm a Tiefling CW, but, I think I'll still take Tempest Magic over Elemental Empowerment. I feel that the additional damage when mobs are below 30% will be most helpful on bosses with lots of HP. Anyways, thanks a ton for all the work you put into this!
EDIT: After all that I ended up going with Critical Power. So I just copied all your stuff exactly. Thx!
It ate my post! I've been using SotEA in place of shield. Im enjoying the control it adds, and the AP isn't terrible. It worked well in Malabog the 2 times I've run it.
What is the reasoning for taking Critical Power instead of Reaper's Touch?
My guess is that whenever mobs are within 20 feet, the idea is you are using Sudden Storm on them instead of your at-will powers, thus Reaper's Touch would go unused for the most part. Is this assumption correct?
Is the added AP gain from Critical Power significant enough to warrant taking it? I was thinking perhaps instead of Critical Power, one could take Elemental Empowerment. Thereby having 0 feat points in the renegade tree and 26 in the Thaumaturge one.
It seems like Critical Power would end up adding about 10% AP gain per 23-25 seconds, possibly 15% if the timing was fortunate. So, I can see how that would be very useful. Do you find yourself using the dailies as frequently as possible with this build?
I've respecced my character and followed your build exactly thus far. Just wanted to ask you those questions about the Feats before I finalize them.
I'm a Tiefling CW, but, I think I'll still take Tempest Magic over Elemental Empowerment. I feel that the additional damage when mobs are below 30% will be most helpful on bosses with lots of HP. Anyways, thanks a ton for all the work you put into this!
EDIT: After all that I ended up going with Critical Power. So I just copied all your stuff exactly. Thx!
Yes Critical Power to me is worth the investment. That's 10-15% of the bar filling up within a 25sec window. You do want as many Dailies as possible to group up the adds right in front of you to maximize Sudden Storm. So whether you will use Singularity or Maelstorm, or even Oppressive Force if running with another CW, bunching up the adds in a tight area within your effective area of Icy Terrain and Steal Time, makes Sudden Storm very sexy.
Yes because Sudden Storm is on a such a short cooldown, you are doing less At-Wills. You really just want to throw 1-2 full rounds of Chilling Cloud every few seconds to keep the Frozen Power Transfer buff up.
Tempest magic vs Elemental Empowerment is really a personal preference. Maybe for a tiefling it is better to go with EE. But like you, I am thinking burning down a target during its last 30% a littler faster is important.
(I changed above post, was looking at wrong screenshot).
I went to your build link capticone, and when you mouse over Focused Wizardy,
it states that your AOE does more damage when SINGLE target. In game
though, it does not state that. Isnt this good to get since patch? My understanding
its on normal AOE.
Thanks for help, switching over from Renegade.
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uurbsMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 449Bounty Hunter
edited August 2013
A small report, as I did my synthetic tests on Mimic.
I compared Chilling Presence against Eye of the Storm (EotS) and didn't found any real difference in time or damage output. EotS leads to more Crits, but that doesn't really lead to more damage output.
I compared Tempest Magic and Elemental Empowerment (EE), and there is a difference--EE just doesn't help that much anymore. I'll follow your lead and take Tempest Magic over Elemental Empowerment.
So, for now, I'll stick with your setup.
I'm going to do some tests in regards to Bitter Cold vs. Reaper's Touch, but after 3 hours of test, I'm kind of burned out with testing. :cool:
A small report, as I did my synthetic tests on Mimic.
I compared Chilling Presence against Eye of the Storm (EotS) and didn't found any real difference in time or damage output. EotS leads to more Crits, but that doesn't really lead to more damage output.
I compared Tempest Magic and Elemental Empowerment (EE), and there is a difference--EE just doesn't help that much anymore. I'll follow your lead and take Tempest Magic over Elemental Empowerment.
So, for now, I'll stick with your setup.
I'm going to do some tests in regards to Bitter Cold vs. Reaper's Touch, but after 3 hours of test, I'm kind of burned out with testing. :cool:
Thank you for your effort and testing, did you use combat parser?
I'd be interested what weapon enchantment did you use while testing this, seeing I have G. vorpal which might turn balance to EotS.
A small report, as I did my synthetic tests on Mimic.
I compared Chilling Presence against Eye of the Storm (EotS) and didn't found any real difference in time or damage output. EotS leads to more Crits, but that doesn't really lead to more damage output.
I compared Tempest Magic and Elemental Empowerment (EE), and there is a difference--EE just doesn't help that much anymore. I'll follow your lead and take Tempest Magic over Elemental Empowerment.
So, for now, I'll stick with your setup.
I'm going to do some tests in regards to Bitter Cold vs. Reaper's Touch, but after 3 hours of test, I'm kind of burned out with testing. :cool:
AFAIK, and correct me if I am wrong, Critical Strikes generate more AP gain than normal strikes. Therefore, critting more often leads to more dailies used which means more overall damage. This is the reason that I use EoTS.
The effects of Reaper's Touch extends the distance of one teleport, for a CW. I don't often stay in that range, nor do I use At-Wills often enough for it to make a significant impact.
I would like to know what you think Uurbs. IMO this distribution maximizes my AoE/Single Target damage potential. I may use my free respec to move points from Elemental Empowerment to Nightmare Wizardry. I am strongly considering it.
The build proposed by Copticone does not seem to adopt any of the heroic feats that would maximize AoE/Single Target damage potential, yet claims to do so in the most efficient way. Thus, I have adopted a different layout. I am interested in what you can determine via your testing, Uurbs.
Quick question, I know you said its not intended for players who just started but I'm looking for a good build that could go PvE and PvP at the same time and I'm not interested in Renegade so my question is, what stats are the most important (Armor wise) for this kind of build and how should I roll the character and how much of each stat should i have at the end (INT/CHA/WIS/anything that might help)?
I would have thought it would be better to put the points in focused wizardry and wizards wrath instead of learned spellcaster, especially with the primary target of chilling cloud now being classed as an AOE?
(I changed above post, was looking at wrong screenshot).
I went to your build link capticone, and when you mouse over Focused Wizardy,
it states that your AOE does more damage when SINGLE target. In game
though, it does not state that. Isnt this good to get since patch? My understanding
its on normal AOE.
Thanks for help, switching over from Renegade.
The description in the build link is not up-to-date. The in-game description is the correct one.
A small report, as I did my synthetic tests on Mimic.
I compared Chilling Presence against Eye of the Storm (EotS) and didn't found any real difference in time or damage output. EotS leads to more Crits, but that doesn't really lead to more damage output.
I compared Tempest Magic and Elemental Empowerment (EE), and there is a difference--EE just doesn't help that much anymore. I'll follow your lead and take Tempest Magic over Elemental Empowerment.
So, for now, I'll stick with your setup.
I'm going to do some tests in regards to Bitter Cold vs. Reaper's Touch, but after 3 hours of test, I'm kind of burned out with testing. :cool:
Thanks for the tests and the feedback. I am glad that you confirmed the EotS vs. Chilling Presence, since I really didnt feel like testing it myself and just relied on my gut feeling.
Thank you for your effort and testing, did you use combat parser?
I'd be interested what weapon enchantment did you use while testing this, seeing I have G. vorpal which might turn balance to EotS.
I think you would benefit from Chilling Presence just the same since your crits will be based off a higher base damage Power. With EotS your G. Vorpal would be boosted when you crit only. With Chilling Presence you will get higher crits, and also higher normal hits. It most likely still be a wash.
The build proposed by Copticone does not seem to adopt any of the heroic feats that would maximize AoE/Single Target damage potential, yet claims to do so in the most efficient way. Thus, I have adopted a different layout. I am interested in what you can determine via your testing, Uurbs.
How did you come to that conclusion? My only Arcane damage encounter in my normal rotation is Steal Time, so to me Arcane Master 3/3 is wasted. To me Learned Spellcaster is better than Focused Wizardry, because it adds a flat 5% damage to everything and anything I do, whether it is AoE or Single, Arcane/Cold/or Lightning. You are also concerned about AP regen, yet you skip Fight On, which translates indirectly not only into higher longer term dps, but faster AP gain since Encounters provide the biggest gain to AP. You took Transcended Master over Malevolent Surge, which to me is a dps loss, unless you just picked it up for PvP which I doubt.
When I pick feats, I like them to benefit as many things as possible instead of just one or two things. To me that is efficient.
This thread is not about comparing my guide/spec to yours or anyone else's for that matter. You have your own thread that you go into details about your spec, and you can discuss its benefits all you want over there. You already linked it a couple of times in my thread. You don't see me coming over to yours to advertise mine. If you don't find my spec adequate for your playstyle, which you have expressed several times, why do you keep coming back to this thread?
Quick question, I know you said its not intended for players who just started but I'm looking for a good build that could go PvE and PvP at the same time and I'm not interested in Renegade so my question is, what stats are the most important (Armor wise) for this kind of build and how should I roll the character and how much of each stat should i have at the end (INT/CHA/WIS/anything that might help)?
This question has been asked so many times so I put it permanently in the OP My preference is INT/CHA all the way.
Armor wise, while leveling up, you will get the most out of Lifesteal. When you hit 60 you can either stack defense/regen or stick with Lifesteal like I did.
I would have thought it would be better to put the points in focused wizardry and wizards wrath instead of learned spellcaster, especially with the primary target of chilling cloud now being classed as an AOE?
If it up to you. I prefer to have that 5% from Learned Spell caster working for everything that I do. This is especially good when you need to dps a boss and using Single target encounters, which Focused Wizardry won't help with.
If it up to you. I prefer to have that 5% from Learned Spell caster working for everything that I do. This is especially good when you need to dps a boss and using Single target encounters, which Focused Wizardry won't help with.
That was my point, chilling cloud was changed in the patch so that the primary target is now considered as hit by an AOE for power and proc calculations, so Focused Wizardry should give you more single target damage now?
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uurbsMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 449Bounty Hunter
Thank you for your effort and testing, did you use combat parser?
I'd be interested what weapon enchantment did you use while testing this, seeing I have G. vorpal which might turn balance to EotS.
Yes, I used ACT for interpreting the tests. I use a Normal Plague Fire.
AFAIK, and correct me if I am wrong, Critical Strikes generate more AP gain than normal strikes. Therefore, critting more often leads to more dailies used which means more overall damage. This is the reason that I use EoTS.
Yes, I would have thought that much myself, but it wasn't the case--as I was using Critical Power. Also, sorry, that I forget to mention it: the overall crits I did during the tests, went up from 8% to 10% by using EotS.
I would like to know what you think Uurbs. IMO this distribution maximizes my AoE/Single Target damage potential. I may use my free respec to move points from Elemental Empowerment to Nightmare Wizardry. I am strongly considering it.
That was my point, chilling cloud was changed in the patch so that the primary target is now considered as hit by an AOE for power and proc calculations, so Focused Wizardry should give you more single target damage now?
It would, but why would you want 9% extra on the first hit instead of 5% extra on all 3 hits and all the secondary targets it hits? That is why I prefer Learned Spellcaster. It's because I don't have to worry what to slot. No matter what the situation, what damage type Power I am using, I am getting that 5%. That said, Focused Wizardry is not bad because it will add damage to other things besides Chilling Cloud initial hit.
sarlainMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 3Arc User
edited August 2013
I like the build so far but am having issues with the daily maelstrom of chaos. Is that essential to the build or would putting in shard instead be a good switch (to use sing and op). Also, does it need all 3 points in storm pillar or are you using that just got the 10% buff in damage? I'm trying to tweak it to my playstyle and I'm almost there.
I like the build so far but am having issues with the daily maelstrom of chaos. Is that essential to the build or would putting in shard instead be a good switch (to use sing and op). Also, does it need all 3 points in storm pillar or are you using that just got the 10% buff in damage? I'm trying to tweak it to my playstyle and I'm almost there.
not at all, Singularity works just fine for the same purpose, just aim it directly ahead of you. I am just using it because I get a ton of aggro and want the side benefit of Maelstrom.
I would definitely put 3 points. If I am going to use it, it might as well do the most damage.
Yes Critical Power to me is worth the investment. That's 10-15% of the bar filling up within a 25sec window. You do want as many Dailies as possible to group up the adds right in front of you to maximize Sudden Storm. So whether you will use Singularity or Maelstorm, or even Oppressive Force if running with another CW, bunching up the adds in a tight area within your effective area of Icy Terrain and Steal Time, makes Sudden Storm very sexy.
Yes because Sudden Storm is on a such a short cooldown, you are doing less At-Wills. You really just want to throw 1-2 full rounds of Chilling Cloud every few seconds to keep the Frozen Power Transfer buff up.
Tempest magic vs Elemental Empowerment is really a personal preference. Maybe for a tiefling it is better to go with EE. But like you, I am thinking burning down a target during its last 30% a littler faster is important.
I specced this build and ran Karrundax with it a lil earlier on this evening. Took a little getting used to as I had not used it all all prior to running the dungeon which was probably a mistake. I did catch on after a little bit though and the power of SS when all the mobs are nice and bunched up is quite nice.
I was very squishie though, which I expected as my defense is too low. Although, I decided to equip the HV set I had sitting in my mailbox after the run and that should help a lot. I bought it prior to the patch and was considering saving it to try and sell on the auction house, but, I just couldn't wait to use it!
Finally, I agree Critical Power is a must have. Especially in situations where you are focusing on a single target and your means to raise AP is limited. Critical Power allows you to Ice Knife a single target boss much more often than you would be able to otherwise.
Anyway, that's all for now. Will give some more thought on the build once I have some more time to become familiar with everything. Really enthused about the potential thus far.
It would, but why would you want 9% extra on the first hit instead of 5% extra on all 3 hits and all the secondary targets it hits? That is why I prefer Learned Spellcaster. It's because I don't have to worry what to slot. No matter what the situation, what damage type Power I am using, I am getting that 5%. That said, Focused Wizardry is not bad because it will add damage to other things besides Chilling Cloud initial hit.
Chilling Cloud is an AoE. The first target was fixed to also be considered as hit by an AoE. All targets are hit by an AoE.
Any how, Wizard's Wrath and Focused Wizardry boost Steal Time and Sudden Storm damage. Both are my main sources of damage.
How did you come to that conclusion? My only Arcane damage encounter in my normal rotation is Steal Time, so to me Arcane Master 3/3 is wasted. To me Learned Spellcaster is better than Focused Wizardry, because it adds a flat 5% damage to everything and anything I do, whether it is AoE or Single, Arcane/Cold/or Lightning. You are also concerned about AP regen, yet you skip Fight On, which translates indirectly not only into higher longer term dps, but faster AP gain since Encounters provide the biggest gain to AP. You took Transcended Master over Malevolent Surge, which to me is a dps loss, unless you just picked it up for PvP which I doubt.
When I pick feats, I like them to benefit as many things as possible instead of just one or two things. To me that is efficient.
Learned Spellcaster is not 5% damage to all of your spells, it is 5% extra contribution of Intelligence to damage which is not 5% of the tooltip damage of an ability. Focused Wizardry and Wizard's Wrath are a damage boost directly to the ability damage of Sudden Storm and Steal Time. Although the calculation may or not be a direct % of the ability's displayed damage. This is why I've asked Uurbs to try out this set up: Calc Link
The way that Fight On is calculated in to encounter recharge times makes it less worthwhile, to me. It only reduces cooldowns by ~.2s at my gear level. It's true that if I had 5 more points I would probably get it, but it's not as important as Controlling Action, to me.
Transcended Master is for single target and PvP damage.
Malevolent Surge was astutely described by Grimah in his own build:
"Reason why i did not take malevolent surge, is because the buff last too low. you cant rely on it effectively. and when you do kill something the fight maybe over by then, also the feat becomes redundant in many situations."
The reason that I discuss these points is because it provides knowledge to every one involved, including myself.
Any how, Wizard's Wrath and Focused Wizardry boost Steal Time and Sudden Storm damage. Both are my main sources of damage.
Learned Spellcaster is not 5% damage to all of your spells, it is 5% extra contribution of Intelligence to damage which is not 5% of the tooltip damage of an ability. Focused Wizardry and Wizard's Wrath are a damage boost directly to the ability damage of Sudden Storm and Steal Time. Although the calculation may or not be a direct % of the ability's displayed damage. This is why I've asked Uurbs to try out this set up: Calc Link
Not sure where you're getting this info from. Learned Spellcaster as well as the other AoE feat boosts are a FLAT % damage increase on the tooltip. There is absolutely no difference in the way they add damage to their respective Powers. +3INT = 1point of Focused Wizardry on Steal Time for example.
Sudden Storm doesnt benefit from Wizards Wrath nor Focused Wizardry. I had already known that, but I figured maybe Cryptic threw in another stealth tweak so I took the time to check on the preview server and they definitely dont add 1 ounce of damage to Suddden Storm on the tooltip. They do however add to Steal Time. So both these feats would add damage to ONE of the FOUR main encounters I suggest slotting in the OP. Given that Sudden Storm is now one of our highest hitting encounters along with CoI, Learned Spellcaster does in fact add a FLAT 5%(give or take some fractions) to the tooltip damage on both along with anything else you slot, unlike the other 2 feats.
The way that Fight On is calculated in to encounter recharge times makes it less worthwhile, to me. It only reduces cooldowns by ~.2s at my gear level. It's true that if I had 5 more points I would probably get it, but it's not as important as Controlling Action, to me.
Again, not sure where you get your information from. Are you just reading threads or actually testing things?
23INT 17WIS 3269 Recovery Encounter CD (with 5/5 Fight On)
CoI 12.5 (11.6) 0.9 sec less
Icy Terrain 10.4 (9.7) 0.7 sec less
Steal Time 15.3 (14.2) 1.1 sec less
Sudden Storm 6.9 (6.4) 0.5 sec less
That's 0.5-1.1 seconds CD reductions on all encounters. No idea where you got the 0.2sec from.
Transcended Master is for single target and PvP damage.
Like I said for PvP sure. But this spec, from the title of this thread is for PvE purposes. And I personally do not slot Icy Rays even on Single target dps. Icy Rays does good damage on mastery, but since I can not have it replace CoI it is not worth it for me in PvE. Furthermore, I never spend 5points on a feat to benefit one Power that I intend to use.
Malevolent Surge was astutely described by Grimah in his own build:
"Reason why i did not take malevolent surge, is because the buff last too low. you cant rely on it effectively. and when you do kill something the fight maybe over by then, also the feat becomes redundant in many situations."
I am not sure about your typical runs, but in mine we're constantly chain pulling groups. When there are only 2-4 targets left someone runs ahead and pulls the next batch. On boss fights where adds spawn constantly and die constantly, it does give a decent boost. So I am definitely getting mileage out of Malevolent Surge, certainly 10x more the mileage I would get from Transcended Master given my playstyle.
Also there is absolutely NOTHING redundant about a feat that grants you a damage boost. You may feel it is not worth it, or its effect is mediocre, but redundant?!
The reason that I discuss these points is because it provides knowledge to every one involved, including myself.
You are more than welcome to discuss the OP and anything related to the spec in the OP. This is the third time you are linking your build here, and asking someone else to test/discuss/compare/whatever. This thread is currently over 57 pages, and I already have a hard time trying to answer people back and/or updating the OP. To have to sift through new posts that are derailing the thread is a bit frustrating. Not to mention that when you write something like the above post, many inexperienced players will assume they are factual and I have to take the time to respond like I am doing now.
Not sure where you're getting this info from. Learned Spellcaster as well as the other AoE feat boosts are a FLAT % damage increase on the tooltip. There is absolutely no difference in the way they add damage to their respective Powers. +3INT = 1point of Focused Wizardry on Steal Time for example.
Sudden Storm doesnt benefit from Wizards Wrath nor Focused Wizardry. I had already known that, but I figured maybe Cryptic threw in another stealth tweak so I took the time to check on the preview server and they definitely dont add 1 ounce of damage to Suddden Storm on the tooltip. They do however add to Steal Time. So both these feats would add damage to ONE of the FOUR main encounters I suggest slotting in the OP. Given that Sudden Storm is now one of our highest hitting encounters along with CoI, Learned Spellcaster does in fact add a FLAT 5%(give or take some fractions) to the tooltip damage on both along with anything else you slot, unlike the other 2 feats.
Again, not sure where you get your information from. Are you just reading threads or actually testing things?
23INT 17WIS 3269 Recovery Encounter CD (with 5/5 Fight On)
CoI 12.5 (11.6) 0.9 sec less
Icy Terrain 10.4 (9.7) 0.7 sec less
Steal Time 15.3 (14.2) 1.1 sec less
Sudden Storm 6.9 (6.4) 0.5 sec less
That's 0.5-1.1 seconds CD reductions on all encounters. No idea where you got the 0.2sec from.
Like I said for PvP sure. But this spec, from the title of this thread is for PvE purposes. And I personally do not slot Icy Rays even on Single target dps. Icy Rays does good damage on mastery, but since I can not have it replace CoI it is not worth it for me in PvE. Furthermore, I never spend 5points on a feat to benefit one Power that I intend to use.
I am not sure about your typical runs, but in mine we're constantly chain pulling groups. When there are only 2-4 targets left someone runs ahead and pulls the next batch. On boss fights where adds spawn constantly and die constantly, it does give a decent boost. So I am definitely getting mileage out of Malevolent Surge, certainly 10x more the mileage I would get from Transcended Master given my playstyle.
Also there is absolutely NOTHING redundant about a feat that grants you a damage boost. You may feel it is not worth it, or its effect is mediocre, but redundant?!
You are more than welcome to discuss the OP and anything related to the spec in the OP. This is the third time you are linking your build here, and asking someone else to test/discuss/compare/whatever. This thread is currently over 57 pages, and I already have a hard time trying to answer people back and/or updating the OP. To have to sift through new posts that are derailing the thread is a bit frustrating. Not to mention that when you write something like the above post, many inexperienced players will assume they are factual and I have to take the time to respond like I am doing now.
Learned Spellcaster: Recent change makes it more viable.
Indeed Sudden Storm will need to be modified to benefit properly from AoE boosts just as many other powers have already been modified to do so. I invest points in with the assumption that it will be modified. In the mean time, the benefits that Wizard's Wrath and Focused Wizardry provide are still a boost. They provide a boost to Steal Time, Oppressive Force, Chill Strike on mastery, Chilling Cloud, Storm Pillar, and Shield. I use all of these powers.
Fight On does provide a bonus to recharges.
Malevolent Surge lasts 4 seconds, so unless I am killing mobs in 4 seconds, I don't find it worthwhile. For you, it's worthwhile because you are a Tiefling already.
My posts are factual, and I don't appreciate your attempts to discredit them. I do, however, appreciate your input. Uurbs already likes to test different feat allocations against one another so I asked for him to try this one.
Learned Spellcaster = 5% damage boost to everything.
Wizard's wrath + Focused Wizardry = 15% boost to chilling cloud and basically everything else in your build.
That is also my logic. Ball is in Cryptic's court to make these apply to Sudden Storm :cool: and also Conduit of Ice but that is just wishful thinking for CoI.
its always been like that for learned spellcaster, as well as fight on (you can cast it 10% faster, rather than 10% reduced cooldown which is what recharge means these recharge calculations are done from base cooldown of the spell)
I havent tested chilling cloud with evocation (i forgot to do it before i respecced). but does it add +aoe damage to all strikes of chilling cloud or just the third one?
its always been like that for learned spellcaster, as well as fight on (you can cast it 10% faster, rather than 10% reduced cooldown which is what recharge means these recharge calculations are done from base cooldown of the spell)
I havent tested chilling cloud with evocation (i forgot to do it before i respecced). but does it add +aoe damage to all strikes of chilling cloud or just the third one?
Learned Spellcaster was changed to provide its' actual bonus on top of the intelligence bonus to damage afaik. So, it's better than it used to be.
My posts are factual, and I don't appreciate your attempts to discredit them. I do, however, appreciate your input. Uurbs already likes to test different feat allocations against one another so I asked for him to try this one.
Correction, your posts are NOT 100% factual, as shown with your tidbit about AoE feats affecting Sudden Storm and your far off from "factual" claim of Fight On and the shaving of 0.2seconds, not to mention previous posts. But that is OK, because we all do it unintentionally every once in a while. I am not on a witch hunt to discredit you, but this is my thread, and I am trying hard to make sure the information here is correct for the benefit of others. I do this through actual testings, or relay test results done by others that I trust while giving them credit for it. That way if it turns out wrong, then it wasn't me :P
So are you going to take every opportunity with every reply to post your spec? That's the fourth time. Dude, just make one post inviting people to visit your thread and discuss that spec all you want over there. You can have Uurbs/pfft2/grimah/Anyone test/dissect/theocraft your spec as much as you want and have the entire CW community debate its merit on YOUR thread. For the 100th time, this is NOT a thread comparing and discussing different specs.
Comments
Storm Pillar is used to proc Destructive Wizardry. I recommend only using it when you're sure to hit more than one target with the primary strike and just after a Chilling Cloud rotation. Follow it up with a rotation of encounters.
My guess is that whenever mobs are within 20 feet, the idea is you are using Sudden Storm on them instead of your at-will powers, thus Reaper's Touch would go unused for the most part. Is this assumption correct?
Is the added AP gain from Critical Power significant enough to warrant taking it? I was thinking perhaps instead of Critical Power, one could take Elemental Empowerment. Thereby having 0 feat points in the renegade tree and 26 in the Thaumaturge one.
It seems like Critical Power would end up adding about 10% AP gain per 23-25 seconds, possibly 15% if the timing was fortunate. So, I can see how that would be very useful. Do you find yourself using the dailies as frequently as possible with this build?
I've respecced my character and followed your build exactly thus far. Just wanted to ask you those questions about the Feats before I finalize them.
I'm a Tiefling CW, but, I think I'll still take Tempest Magic over Elemental Empowerment. I feel that the additional damage when mobs are below 30% will be most helpful on bosses with lots of HP. Anyways, thanks a ton for all the work you put into this!
EDIT: After all that I ended up going with Critical Power. So I just copied all your stuff exactly. Thx!
the first page, which was wrong.
Yes Critical Power to me is worth the investment. That's 10-15% of the bar filling up within a 25sec window. You do want as many Dailies as possible to group up the adds right in front of you to maximize Sudden Storm. So whether you will use Singularity or Maelstorm, or even Oppressive Force if running with another CW, bunching up the adds in a tight area within your effective area of Icy Terrain and Steal Time, makes Sudden Storm very sexy.
Yes because Sudden Storm is on a such a short cooldown, you are doing less At-Wills. You really just want to throw 1-2 full rounds of Chilling Cloud every few seconds to keep the Frozen Power Transfer buff up.
Tempest magic vs Elemental Empowerment is really a personal preference. Maybe for a tiefling it is better to go with EE. But like you, I am thinking burning down a target during its last 30% a littler faster is important.
Yup, that's why there is not Snap Freeze in the spec :P
I went to your build link capticone, and when you mouse over Focused Wizardy,
it states that your AOE does more damage when SINGLE target. In game
though, it does not state that. Isnt this good to get since patch? My understanding
its on normal AOE.
Thanks for help, switching over from Renegade.
I compared Chilling Presence against Eye of the Storm (EotS) and didn't found any real difference in time or damage output. EotS leads to more Crits, but that doesn't really lead to more damage output.
I compared Tempest Magic and Elemental Empowerment (EE), and there is a difference--EE just doesn't help that much anymore. I'll follow your lead and take Tempest Magic over Elemental Empowerment.
So, for now, I'll stick with your setup.
I'm going to do some tests in regards to Bitter Cold vs. Reaper's Touch, but after 3 hours of test, I'm kind of burned out with testing. :cool:
Thank you for your effort and testing, did you use combat parser?
I'd be interested what weapon enchantment did you use while testing this, seeing I have G. vorpal which might turn balance to EotS.
AFAIK, and correct me if I am wrong, Critical Strikes generate more AP gain than normal strikes. Therefore, critting more often leads to more dailies used which means more overall damage. This is the reason that I use EoTS.
The effects of Reaper's Touch extends the distance of one teleport, for a CW. I don't often stay in that range, nor do I use At-Wills often enough for it to make a significant impact.
Here is the template that I use: Calc Link
I would like to know what you think Uurbs. IMO this distribution maximizes my AoE/Single Target damage potential. I may use my free respec to move points from Elemental Empowerment to Nightmare Wizardry. I am strongly considering it.
The build proposed by Copticone does not seem to adopt any of the heroic feats that would maximize AoE/Single Target damage potential, yet claims to do so in the most efficient way. Thus, I have adopted a different layout. I am interested in what you can determine via your testing, Uurbs.
I'm thinking of changing to this build:
http://nwcalc.com/cw?b=p8v:4yqm4:8esz,13n3i03:6u000:bu0uv:b0000&h=0
The description in the build link is not up-to-date. The in-game description is the correct one.
Thanks for the tests and the feedback. I am glad that you confirmed the EotS vs. Chilling Presence, since I really didnt feel like testing it myself and just relied on my gut feeling.
I think you would benefit from Chilling Presence just the same since your crits will be based off a higher base damage Power. With EotS your G. Vorpal would be boosted when you crit only. With Chilling Presence you will get higher crits, and also higher normal hits. It most likely still be a wash.
How did you come to that conclusion? My only Arcane damage encounter in my normal rotation is Steal Time, so to me Arcane Master 3/3 is wasted. To me Learned Spellcaster is better than Focused Wizardry, because it adds a flat 5% damage to everything and anything I do, whether it is AoE or Single, Arcane/Cold/or Lightning. You are also concerned about AP regen, yet you skip Fight On, which translates indirectly not only into higher longer term dps, but faster AP gain since Encounters provide the biggest gain to AP. You took Transcended Master over Malevolent Surge, which to me is a dps loss, unless you just picked it up for PvP which I doubt.
When I pick feats, I like them to benefit as many things as possible instead of just one or two things. To me that is efficient.
This thread is not about comparing my guide/spec to yours or anyone else's for that matter. You have your own thread that you go into details about your spec, and you can discuss its benefits all you want over there. You already linked it a couple of times in my thread. You don't see me coming over to yours to advertise mine. If you don't find my spec adequate for your playstyle, which you have expressed several times, why do you keep coming back to this thread?
This question has been asked so many times so I put it permanently in the OP
Armor wise, while leveling up, you will get the most out of Lifesteal. When you hit 60 you can either stack defense/regen or stick with Lifesteal like I did.
If it up to you. I prefer to have that 5% from Learned Spell caster working for everything that I do. This is especially good when you need to dps a boss and using Single target encounters, which Focused Wizardry won't help with.
That was my point, chilling cloud was changed in the patch so that the primary target is now considered as hit by an AOE for power and proc calculations, so Focused Wizardry should give you more single target damage now?
Will take a look at it, next weekend.
It would, but why would you want 9% extra on the first hit instead of 5% extra on all 3 hits and all the secondary targets it hits? That is why I prefer Learned Spellcaster. It's because I don't have to worry what to slot. No matter what the situation, what damage type Power I am using, I am getting that 5%. That said, Focused Wizardry is not bad because it will add damage to other things besides Chilling Cloud initial hit.
not at all, Singularity works just fine for the same purpose, just aim it directly ahead of you. I am just using it because I get a ton of aggro and want the side benefit of Maelstrom.
I would definitely put 3 points. If I am going to use it, it might as well do the most damage.
I specced this build and ran Karrundax with it a lil earlier on this evening. Took a little getting used to as I had not used it all all prior to running the dungeon which was probably a mistake. I did catch on after a little bit though and the power of SS when all the mobs are nice and bunched up is quite nice.
I was very squishie though, which I expected as my defense is too low. Although, I decided to equip the HV set I had sitting in my mailbox after the run and that should help a lot. I bought it prior to the patch and was considering saving it to try and sell on the auction house, but, I just couldn't wait to use it!
Finally, I agree Critical Power is a must have. Especially in situations where you are focusing on a single target and your means to raise AP is limited. Critical Power allows you to Ice Knife a single target boss much more often than you would be able to otherwise.
Anyway, that's all for now. Will give some more thought on the build once I have some more time to become familiar with everything. Really enthused about the potential thus far.
Chilling Cloud is an AoE. The first target was fixed to also be considered as hit by an AoE. All targets are hit by an AoE.
Any how, Wizard's Wrath and Focused Wizardry boost Steal Time and Sudden Storm damage. Both are my main sources of damage.
Learned Spellcaster is not 5% damage to all of your spells, it is 5% extra contribution of Intelligence to damage which is not 5% of the tooltip damage of an ability. Focused Wizardry and Wizard's Wrath are a damage boost directly to the ability damage of Sudden Storm and Steal Time. Although the calculation may or not be a direct % of the ability's displayed damage. This is why I've asked Uurbs to try out this set up: Calc Link
The way that Fight On is calculated in to encounter recharge times makes it less worthwhile, to me. It only reduces cooldowns by ~.2s at my gear level. It's true that if I had 5 more points I would probably get it, but it's not as important as Controlling Action, to me.
Transcended Master is for single target and PvP damage.
Malevolent Surge was astutely described by Grimah in his own build:
"Reason why i did not take malevolent surge, is because the buff last too low. you cant rely on it effectively. and when you do kill something the fight maybe over by then, also the feat becomes redundant in many situations."
The reason that I discuss these points is because it provides knowledge to every one involved, including myself.
Not sure where you're getting this info from. Learned Spellcaster as well as the other AoE feat boosts are a FLAT % damage increase on the tooltip. There is absolutely no difference in the way they add damage to their respective Powers. +3INT = 1point of Focused Wizardry on Steal Time for example.
Sudden Storm doesnt benefit from Wizards Wrath nor Focused Wizardry. I had already known that, but I figured maybe Cryptic threw in another stealth tweak so I took the time to check on the preview server and they definitely dont add 1 ounce of damage to Suddden Storm on the tooltip. They do however add to Steal Time. So both these feats would add damage to ONE of the FOUR main encounters I suggest slotting in the OP. Given that Sudden Storm is now one of our highest hitting encounters along with CoI, Learned Spellcaster does in fact add a FLAT 5%(give or take some fractions) to the tooltip damage on both along with anything else you slot, unlike the other 2 feats.
Again, not sure where you get your information from. Are you just reading threads or actually testing things?
23INT 17WIS 3269 Recovery Encounter CD (with 5/5 Fight On)
CoI 12.5 (11.6) 0.9 sec less
Icy Terrain 10.4 (9.7) 0.7 sec less
Steal Time 15.3 (14.2) 1.1 sec less
Sudden Storm 6.9 (6.4) 0.5 sec less
That's 0.5-1.1 seconds CD reductions on all encounters. No idea where you got the 0.2sec from.
Like I said for PvP sure. But this spec, from the title of this thread is for PvE purposes. And I personally do not slot Icy Rays even on Single target dps. Icy Rays does good damage on mastery, but since I can not have it replace CoI it is not worth it for me in PvE. Furthermore, I never spend 5points on a feat to benefit one Power that I intend to use.
I am not sure about your typical runs, but in mine we're constantly chain pulling groups. When there are only 2-4 targets left someone runs ahead and pulls the next batch. On boss fights where adds spawn constantly and die constantly, it does give a decent boost. So I am definitely getting mileage out of Malevolent Surge, certainly 10x more the mileage I would get from Transcended Master given my playstyle.
Also there is absolutely NOTHING redundant about a feat that grants you a damage boost. You may feel it is not worth it, or its effect is mediocre, but redundant?!
You are more than welcome to discuss the OP and anything related to the spec in the OP. This is the third time you are linking your build here, and asking someone else to test/discuss/compare/whatever. This thread is currently over 57 pages, and I already have a hard time trying to answer people back and/or updating the OP. To have to sift through new posts that are derailing the thread is a bit frustrating. Not to mention that when you write something like the above post, many inexperienced players will assume they are factual and I have to take the time to respond like I am doing now.
Learned Spellcaster: Recent change makes it more viable.
Indeed Sudden Storm will need to be modified to benefit properly from AoE boosts just as many other powers have already been modified to do so. I invest points in with the assumption that it will be modified. In the mean time, the benefits that Wizard's Wrath and Focused Wizardry provide are still a boost. They provide a boost to Steal Time, Oppressive Force, Chill Strike on mastery, Chilling Cloud, Storm Pillar, and Shield. I use all of these powers.
Fight On does provide a bonus to recharges.
Malevolent Surge lasts 4 seconds, so unless I am killing mobs in 4 seconds, I don't find it worthwhile. For you, it's worthwhile because you are a Tiefling already.
My posts are factual, and I don't appreciate your attempts to discredit them. I do, however, appreciate your input. Uurbs already likes to test different feat allocations against one another so I asked for him to try this one.
Wizard's wrath + Focused Wizardry = 15% boost to chilling cloud and basically everything else in your build.
That is also my logic. Ball is in Cryptic's court to make these apply to Sudden Storm :cool: and also Conduit of Ice but that is just wishful thinking for CoI.
I havent tested chilling cloud with evocation (i forgot to do it before i respecced). but does it add +aoe damage to all strikes of chilling cloud or just the third one?
and also the featured satirical comedic adventure "A Call for Heroes".
Learned Spellcaster was changed to provide its' actual bonus on top of the intelligence bonus to damage afaik. So, it's better than it used to be.
and also the featured satirical comedic adventure "A Call for Heroes".
This is was NOT a recent change. It's been like this for at least a month or more.
Correction, your posts are NOT 100% factual, as shown with your tidbit about AoE feats affecting Sudden Storm and your far off from "factual" claim of Fight On and the shaving of 0.2seconds, not to mention previous posts. But that is OK, because we all do it unintentionally every once in a while. I am not on a witch hunt to discredit you, but this is my thread, and I am trying hard to make sure the information here is correct for the benefit of others. I do this through actual testings, or relay test results done by others that I trust while giving them credit for it. That way if it turns out wrong, then it wasn't me :P
So are you going to take every opportunity with every reply to post your spec? That's the fourth time. Dude, just make one post inviting people to visit your thread and discuss that spec all you want over there. You can have Uurbs/pfft2/grimah/Anyone test/dissect/theocraft your spec as much as you want and have the entire CW community debate its merit on YOUR thread. For the 100th time, this is NOT a thread comparing and discussing different specs.