I've been messing around with shard for the extra control, and the damage doesn't seem terrible. When I figure out which way Im going, Ill likely spec back into sudden storm.
No, the small % gain in AP from WIS will be even more insignificant. WIS AP gain gets better the more AP an encounter can generate. So now with the Shield AP nerf, it means the benefit it will get from WIS is even worse.
No, the small % gain in AP from WIS will be even more insignificant. WIS AP gain gets better the more AP an encounter can generate. So now with the Shield AP nerf, it means the benefit it will get from WIS is even worse.
I don't think he was talking about getting higher wisdom to get more AP with shield burst. But AP gain from other decent AP generating spells, like tabbed EF, Steal Time etc. will be larger with higher wisdom, so that can help us fill up AP for singularities more often.
I don't think he was talking about getting higher wisdom to get more AP with shield burst. But AP gain from other decent AP generating spells, like tabbed EF, Steal Time etc. will be larger with higher wisdom, so that can help us fill up AP for singularities more often.
I understand. I mentioned shield because it was our biggest AP gain. 6% of 60/70% of the bar is better than 6% of 15-30% encounters. Even then, it was not justified in my opinion to raise WIS; more so now. And with this build, you rarely ever have EF on tab. CoI, Icy T, Steal T, and Shield(or now Sudden Storm if you want) is still plenty of AP gain. 20-25sec full AP bar without EF or stacking WIS, is pretty good IMO.
Id like to know what elemental empowerment procs on now, my guild CWs are pretty lazy in finding this stuff out, and my previous spec was pvp (took the icy ray buff instead), and now im renegade. So i would like to know what works with it.
Also i would advise anyone to not stick to a single spell setup, it will gimp you. if you need to take entangle on mastery, take it.
I find because of the shield change id have to say this build has become more situational, though the damage has increased because the feat works now but now missing its singularity/or oppressive CC ability, i find this build alot harder to stay alive without a GF in the party, or another CW using more instant CC abilities helping you. I find you either have to use entangle on tab, So i would suggest using either entangle on tab, which will gimp chilling presence, because you want conduit on tab to get those chills up fast (and the aoe radius is very nice).
Or take conduit, icy terrain, steal time and shard of avalanche. Im switching between entangle on tab or shard on normal, one or the other. entangle will give you enough AP to get some oppressives up regularly. or shard to weave in between steal-time, along with freezing, it will keep things locked up pretty tight. you are sacfricing damage though because shard has a 12-13 second cooldown, and does the same damage as sudden storm which has a 6-7 second cooldown. But you can rely on the bug that shard gives 1 to 2 bonus stack of high vizier (if you are using it) so thats another +7% ish damage anyway (on top of the maximum of 3).
Try it out and tell me what you think oh and i got a bit side tracked, please answer my first question
Encounters:
CoI on tab, Icy Terrain, Steal Time, Sudden Storm(6.4 CD with 3269Recovery + 5/5 Fight On)
At-Wills:
Chilling Cloud/Storm Pillar
Dailies:
Maelstorm Of Chaos (10 or less adds) - The mitigation and CC immunity while casting is great when surrounded by adds. Place the circle right in front of you, for a follow-up with Sudden Storm.
Oppressive Force (10+ adds) - This is great when running with another CW who is using Singularity or Maelstorm. Using this after the other CW uses his daily is the ultimate CC effect.
Singularity - When you are slotting Shield and will be tossing off ledges.
Dropped:
Elemental Empowerment - The main purpose of this feat was the debuff. Now with shield not being a permanent slot, it only leaves Steal Time to proc it and I thought it is not worth the 5points for 3secs.
Nightmare Wizardry: I just didnt feel it contributed that much. Thinking about it, it gives you a false sense of contribution. You are running with 4 other players, each of which can and does create Combat Advantage situations. It just felt redundant to me. But I could be wrong. A full parse can show how many Flank attacks the party gains with this feat.
Added:
Tempest Magic
Bitter Cold.
I will play around with this for a few days before I update the OP.
I dropped Icy terrain to SotEA. It become really OP when feated and with evocation (30k crits and fun from playing bowling). But I don't know, what to use in passives: continue to use chilling presence (no IT - less chill stacks), switch it with storm spell (same as ChP, less procs) or EotS. It's in case of AoE. Single still chilling + storm spell.
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uurbsMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 449Bounty Hunter
edited August 2013
Just an update from my experience with the my old spec. Because of OOG stuff, I couldn't do any further tests on Mimic and just did 2 dungeons, tonight.
tl;dr: Even with CoI-Mastery, Steal Time, Shield and Icy Terrain as well as not that much Arcane Singularities I outdamaged 12k GS CWs, twice
Both dungeons were Pirate runs, each with one additional CW--each of those had 12k GS and both had around 4-5k Recovery (I'm at 10k GS and still have 24 INT, 20 WIS/CHA). Both of them could cast more AS (one used Entagling Force--therefore I wasn't surprised), but still I was half a mil ahead of them in regards to damage (and I did most of the over-the-ledge pushing). I didn't use Sudden Storm so far, as I don't have it on Live, yet.
I dropped Icy terrain to SotEA. It become really OP when feated and with evocation (30k crits and fun from playing bowling). But I don't know, what to use in passives: continue to use chilling presence (no IT - less chill stacks), switch it with storm spell (same as ChP, less procs) or EotS. It's in case of AoE. Single still chilling + storm spell.
SotEA, is fun. I put the 3 points, but mainly to use in PvP if I want. The reason why it is not part of my PvE rotation is:
1) it has a long CD. I can do 2x Sudden Storm in the same amount of time.
2) Doesn't refresh chills
3) Icy Terrain has a better AoE effect to proc the HV set. Icy Terrain + Steal Time I think is a better way to maintain the HV set bonus. Icy Terrain works better with Storm Spell too.
I am still sticking with Chilling Presence/Storm Spell.
Icy Terrain does low damage (compairing to minimum 10k normal hits of SotEA). And SotEA gives 2 stacks of HV as well.
To me, icy terrain helps with chills, which indirectly maintain Chilling presence and Bitter Cold damage boost. It's HV proc is centered around you so it hits everyone. It has unlimited targets vs 5 targets of SotEA. It is also not awkward to use nor does it require aiming.
After reading this thread and others I swapped out shield for sudden storm and the effect is startling. I've been running CoI on tab, with steal time, icy terrain and SS on skirmishes and T1 dungeons. I've topped the damage charts for the first time Still getting the most kills too... When SS crits on a big mob bunched up by AS it is ridiculous Wack out IT then Steal Time and SS has usually cooled down. I'm enjoying it
Tele Savalas, Dwarf Thaumaturge CW
Putting the Buff into Debuff since 2013 \o/ (Does that even make sense)?
Oppressive Force (10+ adds) - This is great when running with another CW who is using Singularity or Maelstorm. Using this after the other CW uses his daily is the ultimate CC effect.
This really isnt true!
Singularity affected mobs are immune to damage from sudden storm, shard and oppressive force. making it rather horrible spell. I starting to hate other wizard using singularity these days. Things have changed so much :P
After reading this thread and others I swapped out shield for sudden storm and the effect is startling. I've been running CoI on tab, with steal time, icy terrain and SS on skirmishes and T1 dungeons. I've topped the damage charts for the first time Still getting the most kills too... When SS crits on a big mob bunched up by AS it is ridiculous Wack out IT then Steal Time and SS has usually cooled down. I'm enjoying it
Yea I dont think I will wait a few days to update the OP. That last spec I posted above seems to be as good as it gets for me at least. I am really liking the short CD of SS.
I also think Icy Terrain and Steal Time are especially important with SS. Once you bunch them up in front of you, you want them to stay there are long as possible to get the max possible damage out of SS. constant freezes and Steal Time stun, provides a good 3-4 chains of SS. I am also liking the mitigation and CC immunity of Maelstorm, and the added bonus that it also refreshes the Chills.
Maybe it is the novelty, but I think I am liking this more than my last updated spec in the OP.
With the upgrade/fix to Sudden Storm, thoughts on taking Chilling Cold feat from the oppressor tree over Reapers Touch/Critical Power ?
Chilling Cloud feat description:
Your Sudden Storm has a 10/20/30/40/50% chance of applying stacks of chill to targets hit by the primary strike.
Between CoI and Icy Terrain, you have plenty of chills. Also Sudden Storm will refresh the chills, which makes that feat kind of redundant. I do not feel it is worth 5points.
Thks copticone for reply. One last question, whre are you allocating ability points... all INT/CHA ?
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noojsterMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 23Arc User
edited August 2013
Got back to this build copticone cheers
Only changes I've made though, I still used Elemental Empowerment, and no Fight on. cooldowns are fine for me anyways @ 3600 recovery.
freezing skirmishes in sharandar like crazy
using storm pillar and sudden storm too, still getting the hang of it. Feels weird since I'm used to Perma Singularity builds -_-
MeyvnHart
Lvl 60 Control Wizard (Tiefling) - Spellstorm Mage [Thauma-DPS]
Philippines' <TANGINA MO PO KOYA> Guild
Mindflayer Server
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sarlainMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 3Arc User
edited August 2013
In the build you show O for Orb of Imposition. Unless I'm missing something we can't do that in game. So where is that 1 point coming from (that has to be in Orb)? Ice Storm?
Do you actually run things like Spellplague without using shield at all? I would think most of the other group members would be like, "why the hell isn't this guy knocking mobs off?" if you don't even use shield ever...
In the build you show O for Orb of Imposition. Unless I'm missing something we can't do that in game. So where is that 1 point coming from (that has to be in Orb)? Ice Storm?
There is 1 point in Orb and 1 point in Magic missile (not 2 as shown in the link)
Do you actually run things like Spellplague without using shield at all? I would think most of the other group members would be like, "why the hell isn't this guy knocking mobs off?" if you don't even use shield ever...
I am assuming you are referring to the last boss? I do have Shield slotted, but it is only used as backup or in between phases where there are large amount of adds. But I would say 75% of all tosses in that fight are done with Repel on Tab.
If you mean throughout the dungeon, yes would use shield to toss mobs off ledges. Because in that case I'm not really using shield for AP gain.
I havent run SP since that last update. I imagine I will switch to Sudden Storm during the first 2 bosses.
Seems like Spell would be the one example where you have to break out of the normal rotation.
On another note: Steal Time is the only spell now that adds an HV buff. Still the best set for this build though?
Icy Terrain applies 1x stack of HV debuff. So Steal Time for the 3x stack, then Icy Terrain to refresh the 3x stacks. So you could have like 75% uptime.
Should tiefling still take Tempest magic over elemental empowerment? Unless my math is wrong, tempest magic seems to contribute a maximum 1.5% dmg for tiefling (assuming you don't outright kill them at 31%+.) Elemental empowerment seemingly (I have no numbers) would contribute more than 1.5%, no?
Should tiefling still take Tempest magic over elemental empowerment? Unless my math is wrong, tempest magic seems to contribute a maximum 1.5% dmg for tiefling (assuming you don't outright kill them at 31%+.) Elemental empowerment seemingly (I have no numbers) would contribute more than 1.5%, no?
Comments
Alright cool, thanks for the input here
I understand. I mentioned shield because it was our biggest AP gain. 6% of 60/70% of the bar is better than 6% of 15-30% encounters. Even then, it was not justified in my opinion to raise WIS; more so now. And with this build, you rarely ever have EF on tab. CoI, Icy T, Steal T, and Shield(or now Sudden Storm if you want) is still plenty of AP gain. 20-25sec full AP bar without EF or stacking WIS, is pretty good IMO.
Also i would advise anyone to not stick to a single spell setup, it will gimp you. if you need to take entangle on mastery, take it.
I find because of the shield change id have to say this build has become more situational, though the damage has increased because the feat works now but now missing its singularity/or oppressive CC ability, i find this build alot harder to stay alive without a GF in the party, or another CW using more instant CC abilities helping you. I find you either have to use entangle on tab, So i would suggest using either entangle on tab, which will gimp chilling presence, because you want conduit on tab to get those chills up fast (and the aoe radius is very nice).
Or take conduit, icy terrain, steal time and shard of avalanche. Im switching between entangle on tab or shard on normal, one or the other. entangle will give you enough AP to get some oppressives up regularly. or shard to weave in between steal-time, along with freezing, it will keep things locked up pretty tight. you are sacfricing damage though because shard has a 12-13 second cooldown, and does the same damage as sudden storm which has a 6-7 second cooldown. But you can rely on the bug that shard gives 1 to 2 bonus stack of high vizier (if you are using it) so thats another +7% ish damage anyway (on top of the maximum of 3).
Try it out and tell me what you think
and also the featured satirical comedic adventure "A Call for Heroes".
Solo:
Chill Strike Mastery, CoI, Icy Terrain, Sudden Storm
Group:
CoI Mastery, Steal Time, Icy Terrain, Sudden Storm
Dailies:
Oppressive Force, Arcane Singularity
Features:
Eye of the Storm , Storm Spell
I am currently testing this spec:
http://nwcalc.com/cw?b=m1b:4yqm4:b8i4,13n1i50:6u000:bz0u1:b0000&h=0
Encounters:
CoI on tab, Icy Terrain, Steal Time, Sudden Storm(6.4 CD with 3269Recovery + 5/5 Fight On)
At-Wills:
Chilling Cloud/Storm Pillar
Dailies:
Maelstorm Of Chaos (10 or less adds) - The mitigation and CC immunity while casting is great when surrounded by adds. Place the circle right in front of you, for a follow-up with Sudden Storm.
Oppressive Force (10+ adds) - This is great when running with another CW who is using Singularity or Maelstorm. Using this after the other CW uses his daily is the ultimate CC effect.
Singularity - When you are slotting Shield and will be tossing off ledges.
Dropped:
Elemental Empowerment - The main purpose of this feat was the debuff. Now with shield not being a permanent slot, it only leaves Steal Time to proc it and I thought it is not worth the 5points for 3secs.
Nightmare Wizardry: I just didnt feel it contributed that much. Thinking about it, it gives you a false sense of contribution. You are running with 4 other players, each of which can and does create Combat Advantage situations. It just felt redundant to me. But I could be wrong. A full parse can show how many Flank attacks the party gains with this feat.
Added:
Tempest Magic
Bitter Cold.
I will play around with this for a few days before I update the OP.
tl;dr: Even with CoI-Mastery, Steal Time, Shield and Icy Terrain as well as not that much Arcane Singularities I outdamaged 12k GS CWs, twice
Both dungeons were Pirate runs, each with one additional CW--each of those had 12k GS and both had around 4-5k Recovery (I'm at 10k GS and still have 24 INT, 20 WIS/CHA). Both of them could cast more AS (one used Entagling Force--therefore I wasn't surprised), but still I was half a mil ahead of them in regards to damage (and I did most of the over-the-ledge pushing). I didn't use Sudden Storm so far, as I don't have it on Live, yet.
Will do some synthectic test on Mimic, tomorrow.
SotEA, is fun. I put the 3 points, but mainly to use in PvP if I want. The reason why it is not part of my PvE rotation is:
1) it has a long CD. I can do 2x Sudden Storm in the same amount of time.
2) Doesn't refresh chills
3) Icy Terrain has a better AoE effect to proc the HV set. Icy Terrain + Steal Time I think is a better way to maintain the HV set bonus. Icy Terrain works better with Storm Spell too.
I am still sticking with Chilling Presence/Storm Spell.
To me, icy terrain helps with chills, which indirectly maintain Chilling presence and Bitter Cold damage boost. It's HV proc is centered around you so it hits everyone. It has unlimited targets vs 5 targets of SotEA. It is also not awkward to use nor does it require aiming.
I doubt that the new EotS out dps Spell Storm. I am even not sure if the new EotS is better than the old one, not counting any bugs.
This really isnt true!
Singularity affected mobs are immune to damage from sudden storm, shard and oppressive force. making it rather horrible spell. I starting to hate other wizard using singularity these days. Things have changed so much :P
and also the featured satirical comedic adventure "A Call for Heroes".
Yea I dont think I will wait a few days to update the OP. That last spec I posted above seems to be as good as it gets for me at least. I am really liking the short CD of SS.
I also think Icy Terrain and Steal Time are especially important with SS. Once you bunch them up in front of you, you want them to stay there are long as possible to get the max possible damage out of SS. constant freezes and Steal Time stun, provides a good 3-4 chains of SS. I am also liking the mitigation and CC immunity of Maelstorm, and the added bonus that it also refreshes the Chills.
Maybe it is the novelty, but I think I am liking this more than my last updated spec in the OP.
Chilling Cloud feat description:
Your Sudden Storm has a 10/20/30/40/50% chance of applying stacks of chill to targets hit by the primary strike.
Between CoI and Icy Terrain, you have plenty of chills. Also Sudden Storm will refresh the chills, which makes that feat kind of redundant. I do not feel it is worth 5points.
Only changes I've made though, I still used Elemental Empowerment, and no Fight on.
freezing skirmishes in sharandar like crazy
using storm pillar and sudden storm too, still getting the hang of it. Feels weird since I'm used to Perma Singularity builds -_-
MeyvnHart
Lvl 60 Control Wizard (Tiefling) - Spellstorm Mage [Thauma-DPS]
Philippines' <TANGINA MO PO KOYA> Guild
Mindflayer Server
On another note: Steal Time is the only spell now that adds an HV buff. Still the best set for this build though?
Well for now. But you know how Cryptic is.
yes
There is 1 point in Orb and 1 point in Magic missile (not 2 as shown in the link)
You can apply chills on bosses eventhough they are immune to their effects. So yes it does work.
I am assuming you are referring to the last boss? I do have Shield slotted, but it is only used as backup or in between phases where there are large amount of adds. But I would say 75% of all tosses in that fight are done with Repel on Tab.
If you mean throughout the dungeon, yes would use shield to toss mobs off ledges. Because in that case I'm not really using shield for AP gain.
I havent run SP since that last update. I imagine I will switch to Sudden Storm during the first 2 bosses.
Icy Terrain applies 1x stack of HV debuff. So Steal Time for the 3x stack, then Icy Terrain to refresh the 3x stacks. So you could have like 75% uptime.
Sure if you want.