For me while in PvP, it so so so rare, that I use stealth at a distance, to run up on someone. As I am not running a stealth based/crutch build, my stealth doesnt last very long, so it would be silly for me to do so. The times I use Stealth are generally just before I am close enough to attack someone. For example: I'm coming up to a CW 1 vs 1, I run, get close, wait till I see an animation they are going to cast, I dodge, stealth, and in a matter of about 1 second I am on them ready to use whichever ability I chose to. My stealth isnt wasted, and now I can attack with the bonus dmg from stealth. My favorite combo for fighting a CW is as follows. Dazing strike in stealth, lashing blade, impact shot. If by some miracle they are still alive, I have 2 more Impacts, and generally they are ****ting in there pants trying to get away, that I havent even been damage at this point, and my stealth is up again, and I can stealth/impact >Dead Mage. I see soooo many TR's that waste there LA/LB on a CW with a full shield. That is definately a l2p issue, and makes me laugh everytime.
Maybe you fought **** CWs . Good CWs will see stealthed daze in a mile away . Before you even get close to them , theyll CC you to death . u_u
I saw him hit enemies for 1/2 HP with one Impact Shot. And yet other rogues cry how they are bad at range.
Its damage i dont see on 11,5k GS CW unless using daily.
We have the worst armor in the game, low HP, and just to top it off, we get the least amount of dodges. But we do damage... right?
1: CW's have low armor and DC's only get 2 dodges but nice try on misinformation.
Right now rogues can hit over 50k damage with an encounter on a full health player, you deserve every nerf you get nerf. Imposible to catch blocking every classes 1-2 useful CCs, 2 invincibility dodges when players only have 3 total skills to use, a skill that can be used while visible that AOE disables for FOUR SECONDS. Other notable MMORPGs have stuns that can only be used while stealthed (AND LIMITED MID COMBAT STEALTH UNLIKE HERE!) and only stun for maybe 2 seconds, plus have a long cooldown. Every time a TR enters stealth they can take away 50% of someones health bar with ease. There is a LOT wrong with this games PVP balance, and the nerf is dealing with it completely the wrong way, but SOMETHING has to be done to destroy this monster of a class.
everyone can make up numbers but that doesnt mean they are true
so please stop doing that, it adds nothing
Ah well
-Desstzo
Allow me to direct you to this video at 8:35 and onwards for that slideshow of his encounter ability with and without LA active, now I expect a public apology
And just incase you weren't refering to me making up numbers about how high TR hits, let me clerify that (besides CW tab) classes can only have, count them QER, THREE skills, and TR can have, count them, TWO consecutive dodges. What other numbers could I be making up... 1-2 useful CCs? Well GWF has takedown+stun, GF has frontline+bull charge, CW usually has choke+push, TR usually has disable, so yeah thats 1-2 useful CCs per class. Could you be referring to TRs 4 second disable, cuz go count it yourself (remember a proper count starts at 0 and not 1). Thanks for making me waste my time proving that you're wrong and I'm right.
everyone can make up numbers but that doesnt mean they are true
so please stop doing that, it adds nothing
Ah well
-Desstzo
Just wanted to add that signing forum posts is seriously lame and pretentious as ****. Apart from being just a random dude with no importance whatsoever and your posts generally being <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>, everyone can clearly see your nickname in the left side of your post. There is absolutely no reason to ever sign a forum post.
So a week ago I received the usual spam mail from clueless devs. "Hey, you haven't logged for months, sup, why not bro, what's wrong, take a survey, we want your babies!". 2 days after the annoying mail, they release these patch notes. I played TR. I suppose that answers your question, PW, no? Laterz.
Being new to the game, can someone explain the nerfs to me? Are they not live yet? I can find details about HOW they're nerfing the class dating all the way back to July, but in-game none of them seem to be in effect yet.
Sorry if this is covered elsewhere in the thread, it seemed a bit specific to try a forum search.
0
percefusMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Being new to the game, can someone explain the nerfs to me? Are they not live yet? I can find details about HOW they're nerfing the class dating all the way back to July, but in-game none of them seem to be in effect yet.
Sorry if this is covered elsewhere in the thread, it seemed a bit specific to try a forum search.
Trickster Rogue
Cloud of Steel: This power now has 8 maximum charges, down from 12.
Cloud of Steel: Momentum is no longer maintained when jumping and throwing daggers.
Duelist's Flurry: This power no longer incorrectly gains slightly too much of a benefit from the Power stat.
Duelist's Flurry: When the bleed portion of this power is at 10 stacks, further applications now recalculate damage in addition to refreshing the duration.
Gloaming Cut: This power works best as an execute, but lacked the damage to fill that role. To help it better serve its function, it now deals up to 50% more damage (at max rank) based on the target's missing health. In addition, rank 3 of the power now provides more Stealth on kill, and rank 1 provides slightly less.
Lurker's Assault: This power now grants 15 / 20 / 25% bonus damage, down from 20 / 40 / 60%.
Lurker's Assault: This power now teleports the player to the targeted enemy, if an enemy is targeted.
Lurker's Assault: This power can no longer be canceled by Disable effects.
Shadow Strike: This power no longer incorrectly gains slightly too much of a benefit from the Power stat.
Sly Flourish: The benefit this power gains from the Power stat has been slightly reduced.
Wicked Reminder: This power no longer incorrectly gains slightly too much of a benefit from the Power stat.
Feat: Speed Swindle: This feat is now properly considered a Control effect for calculations and procs.
These are on the Test Shard, when they complete their cycle they will most likely be tweeked a bit and moved to LIVE server.
Games should not be adaptable.
Once it goes live it stays EXACTLY the way it is.
You should never ever learn/explore/test your class and challenge yourself.
The TR was the easiest class to play. I PVP hit stealth then lashing blade COS spam or just stealth COS spam. Maybe just shoot for a perma stealth build to troll Dc's and CWs and while annoying others.
Now you guys have to learn to play. Its not hard its what you told all the other classes to do.
As other TR's have stated on the forums skill will shine through so actually spend some time learning to play you class.
Heard it plenty of times before.
0
discountbobMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 17Arc User
edited August 2013
Yes, everyone hates TRs in PvP. Point taken. It's ridiculous for the class whose sole niche is single target DPS in PvE to be the best at single target DPS in PvP. Go figure.
The serious issue, here, is that the hatred for rogues in PvP ends up with massive nerfs that drastically affect PvE. This has been discussed time and again. Yet everyone cites their PvP experience and wants the guy that will be in their team for the next dungeon run to be less useful to their own group (thus making it harder on everyone) so that next time they meet in PvP they can kill the TR.
The reason why Rogues are constantly getting hit by the nerf bat is because the pro's always pick Rogues, making them look OP.
It's a proven fact that all the skilled players chose rogues while all the noobs pick other classes.
Now I wasn't always an ultra skilled ninjaaa. At one time, I was a n000b like yourself. For the first 1 or 2 months after release I played two 60 Control Wizards, a Guardian Fighter to mid 50's, and a Cleric to 40, as well 2 others over 35. But before I became the Kung-Fu Master, PvP was helluva tough.
Then one night, something happened. After watching Kick Boxer, Bloodsport, and American Ninja 1 to 3, my skill jumped like 8 thousand percent when I decided to play a Rogue. Suddenly, I could kill anyone without the slightest effort. Now on occasion my skill did drop back down to n000b level when I played the other classes, but I took care of that... permanently (deleted all other characters).
You cant 1 shot 5 out of 6 people anymore, you have to actually fight them and use your abilities wisely? OMFG LETS START A RIOT!
For real, u killing lvl 5's? 1 shot 5 out of 6 ....what ever...you must be high.
any one that claims 65% nerf to Lurkers is minor is <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>, thats our main dmg ability on single targets, our whole point. PvP? you can stuff that edge ways, when was D&D about PvP. The game has it and that great for those that enjoy but this game was PvE first when it came out, that what the devs said any way, and now.....just like all the others before it they break PvE for PvP.
I was looking at getting the Xpack preorder but I looks like a reroll would be in order and after the time and real cash I have put into this toon I dont think I want to support this game any more.
The GWF calling nerf on slam clearly missed the power scaling buff not to mention several others, and yes GW got a nerf on one attack and then they made it attack faster.....nuff said .....
The reality is that each of the 5 classes was to fill a roll, some ppl wanted their roll to be different on the toon they liked the look of but from the Beta this was never the case. Now some muppet on the dev side of things has decided to forgo the purpose of the classes, let every class be a top dps, and give nothing to the rogues in return.
Both our at-wills are nerfed hard, our main daily as well and ppl think a tele to target makes that better, we had that ffs, we have been given nothing but a swift kick in the balls.
The nerfs were needed to encourage class diversity in parties and break the 2x rogue 2x mage 1x Cleric meta.
Currently, the only class that can consistently and strongly outweigh the benefit of a 2nd rogue on single target dps when it comes to adding debuffs to the table is a dps specced cleric with high prophet set. And maybe a damage focusing vorp/Crit mage, but I don't know enough about that to be sure.
Guardian fighters and Gwf's can approach equal at best when one accounts for their debuff damage added to party.
Rogues are still the masters of single target, albeit not with the margin it is/was, which is good. Earn your upkeep and be skilled and use the right abilities.
Many of you probably fall into the "wicked reminder trap" and ruin your stealth rotation and/or flurrying and forgoe a better encounter in cases where only 1 or two are attacking the boss, effectively losing more team dps through using it than your team overall gains from the debuff being applied to the boss.
Or maybe you haven't figured out how to safely use duelist's flurry on fights like dracolich without having to slot impossible to catch, or maybe there is some other way you can improve your damage output by changing your skill setup or simply becoming better at weaving timings and skill rotations around how a bossfight unfolds.
Like clerics had to step it up when astral shield was nerfed, but turned out to be fine after adjusting to the new reality of things, rogues will too.
PVP wise, as stated earlier in this thread, rogues (along with the other melee classes) were dumbly overpowered in pvp and rogues were the best pvp ranged class which is silly.
You TRs crack me up. Currently we have a couple TR that can hit over 100k with group buffs. Granted it is pve but yea...quit whining. You will still be top or near top while drooling on your keyboard.
You TRs crack me up. Currently we have a couple TR that can hit over 100k with group buffs. Granted it is pve but yea...quit whining. You will still be top or near top while drooling on your keyboard.
So can almost any class with perfect vorpal and huge debuffs in PvE. Ice knife, lunging + knights challenge, IBS, even hammer of fate heh. It's just that very few have the 12mil+ perfect vorpal
Guild Master of <Enemy Team>
We are definitely dominating, and we are always about to win.
So can almost any class with perfect vorpal and huge debuffs in PvE. Ice knife, lunging + knights challenge, IBS, even hammer of fate heh. It's just that very few have the 12mil+ perfect vorpal
Nope. They don't even have normal vorpals. Nice try though
his point still stands, what you encountered has nothing to do with the rogue class but with debuffs
Ah well
-Desstzo
Exactly. My CW can reduce mitigation by 110% and -1350 armor, that could make a pve cleric hit for 60k...
Thats GPF (45%) RoE tabbed (40%) CoI(15% thaum) arcane power (10% thaum) High viz -1350 armor.
and that is CW alone, imagine that with 45% gwf debuff, 5 stacks wicked reminder, multiple cleric debuffs and damage boosts. If you stacked everything you possibly could we could probably see numbers well over 200k easily.
Guild Master of <Enemy Team>
We are definitely dominating, and we are always about to win.
0
baadkittehMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 6Arc User
edited August 2013
Slight nerf? Are you kidding me? They cut the damage bonus almost in half. It's ****ing ridiculous.
I play a TR and I run Negation and Bilethorn enchants. No vorp, no soulforged just skill. I still score top of the charts most games and have no problem against these GF's and GWF's. This nerf still hasn't hurt me at all because lurkers was usable like 4-5 times a pvp match anyway so it should NEVER be relied on.
You struggle with the fighter's? Step up to them for a fist fight, drop stealth and imp to catch immediately and they will drop all their knockdowns on you 95% of the time. In this time you can get 2 flurry animations off and then back out to kite with knives or impact shot while the bleed does its thing ( I have bilethorn to stack with this bleed, its op ) if they are still alive and get toe to toe with you again imp to catch should be back up. rinse. repeat.
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wraithynMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 53
edited August 2013
Hello... Have you logged in and tried out your rogue yet. Dude they're wet noodles! They're done.
Yeah they gave us a free respect, to do what? Every ****ing aspect of the Rogue is Dead!
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wraithynMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 53
edited August 2013
No DEV comments here, no board moderator's? No worry, say goodbye to half your 2 million population. You just screwed yourself. You went way over the top with the ninja nerfs to power. Now all the abilities are so weak we feel like level 20's running with 60's.
Comments
Maybe you fought **** CWs . Good CWs will see stealthed daze in a mile away . Before you even get close to them , theyll CC you to death . u_u
Yes. Out of the possible 5 or more hours of PvP I play everyday every single CW I've fought is terrible and dumb and stupid and has a GS of 5k.
Thank you for your comment that means all of........nothing
Course it doesnt work all the time, but its my go-to for a reason and everything in PvP is situational
Enjoy.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N6nLETM70AI&feature=youtu.be
+1 to this guy.
I saw him hit enemies for 1/2 HP with one Impact Shot. And yet other rogues cry how they are bad at range.
Its damage i dont see on 11,5k GS CW unless using daily.
1: CW's have low armor and DC's only get 2 dodges but nice try on misinformation.
so please stop doing that, it adds nothing
Ah well
-Desstzo
Allow me to direct you to this video at 8:35 and onwards for that slideshow of his encounter ability with and without LA active, now I expect a public apology
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N6nLETM70AI&feature=youtu.be
And just incase you weren't refering to me making up numbers about how high TR hits, let me clerify that (besides CW tab) classes can only have, count them QER, THREE skills, and TR can have, count them, TWO consecutive dodges. What other numbers could I be making up... 1-2 useful CCs? Well GWF has takedown+stun, GF has frontline+bull charge, CW usually has choke+push, TR usually has disable, so yeah thats 1-2 useful CCs per class. Could you be referring to TRs 4 second disable, cuz go count it yourself (remember a proper count starts at 0 and not 1). Thanks for making me waste my time proving that you're wrong and I'm right.
Just wanted to add that signing forum posts is seriously lame and pretentious as ****. Apart from being just a random dude with no importance whatsoever and your posts generally being <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>, everyone can clearly see your nickname in the left side of your post. There is absolutely no reason to ever sign a forum post.
Carry on.
just cause someone spend hundreds of dollars in gear and enchants doesnt make the whole class OP
so i dont know why you deserve an apology for posting nonsense as youve proven yourself...a 27k crit is hardly 50k
so no, you arent right, youre actually quote wrong...provable wrong
Ah well
-Desstzo
This ^
Most are complaining about TR's with P-Vorpals.
Out of 100 PvP matches in 1 day. I might run into 3 or 4 that actually have this, and 8+enchants.
The people with this type of gear make up all of 5% of the PvP population...if that.
You are complaining about enchants........not the class
Get it right and stop starting these stupid threads when you have no frame of referance.
Sorry if this is covered elsewhere in the thread, it seemed a bit specific to try a forum search.
Trickster Rogue
Cloud of Steel: This power now has 8 maximum charges, down from 12.
Cloud of Steel: Momentum is no longer maintained when jumping and throwing daggers.
Duelist's Flurry: This power no longer incorrectly gains slightly too much of a benefit from the Power stat.
Duelist's Flurry: When the bleed portion of this power is at 10 stacks, further applications now recalculate damage in addition to refreshing the duration.
Gloaming Cut: This power works best as an execute, but lacked the damage to fill that role. To help it better serve its function, it now deals up to 50% more damage (at max rank) based on the target's missing health. In addition, rank 3 of the power now provides more Stealth on kill, and rank 1 provides slightly less.
Lurker's Assault: This power now grants 15 / 20 / 25% bonus damage, down from 20 / 40 / 60%.
Lurker's Assault: This power now teleports the player to the targeted enemy, if an enemy is targeted.
Lurker's Assault: This power can no longer be canceled by Disable effects.
Shadow Strike: This power no longer incorrectly gains slightly too much of a benefit from the Power stat.
Sly Flourish: The benefit this power gains from the Power stat has been slightly reduced.
Wicked Reminder: This power no longer incorrectly gains slightly too much of a benefit from the Power stat.
Feat: Speed Swindle: This feat is now properly considered a Control effect for calculations and procs.
These are on the Test Shard, when they complete their cycle they will most likely be tweeked a bit and moved to LIVE server.
http://nw.perfectworld.com/news/?p=958251
A Proud Member Of THE 300 Guild - Tene's are nothing but P2W, Nerf or Remove please!
Once it goes live it stays EXACTLY the way it is.
You should never ever learn/explore/test your class and challenge yourself.
/sarcasm off
The TR was the easiest class to play. I PVP hit stealth then lashing blade COS spam or just stealth COS spam. Maybe just shoot for a perma stealth build to troll Dc's and CWs and while annoying others.
Now you guys have to learn to play. Its not hard its what you told all the other classes to do.
As other TR's have stated on the forums skill will shine through so actually spend some time learning to play you class.
Heard it plenty of times before.
The serious issue, here, is that the hatred for rogues in PvP ends up with massive nerfs that drastically affect PvE. This has been discussed time and again. Yet everyone cites their PvP experience and wants the guy that will be in their team for the next dungeon run to be less useful to their own group (thus making it harder on everyone) so that next time they meet in PvP they can kill the TR.
It's a proven fact that all the skilled players chose rogues while all the noobs pick other classes.
Now I wasn't always an ultra skilled ninjaaa. At one time, I was a n000b like yourself. For the first 1 or 2 months after release I played two 60 Control Wizards, a Guardian Fighter to mid 50's, and a Cleric to 40, as well 2 others over 35. But before I became the Kung-Fu Master, PvP was helluva tough.
Then one night, something happened. After watching Kick Boxer, Bloodsport, and American Ninja 1 to 3, my skill jumped like 8 thousand percent when I decided to play a Rogue. Suddenly, I could kill anyone without the slightest effort. Now on occasion my skill did drop back down to n000b level when I played the other classes, but I took care of that... permanently (deleted all other characters).
For real, u killing lvl 5's? 1 shot 5 out of 6 ....what ever...you must be high.
any one that claims 65% nerf to Lurkers is minor is <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>, thats our main dmg ability on single targets, our whole point. PvP? you can stuff that edge ways, when was D&D about PvP. The game has it and that great for those that enjoy but this game was PvE first when it came out, that what the devs said any way, and now.....just like all the others before it they break PvE for PvP.
I was looking at getting the Xpack preorder but I looks like a reroll would be in order and after the time and real cash I have put into this toon I dont think I want to support this game any more.
The GWF calling nerf on slam clearly missed the power scaling buff not to mention several others, and yes GW got a nerf on one attack and then they made it attack faster.....nuff said .....
The reality is that each of the 5 classes was to fill a roll, some ppl wanted their roll to be different on the toon they liked the look of but from the Beta this was never the case. Now some muppet on the dev side of things has decided to forgo the purpose of the classes, let every class be a top dps, and give nothing to the rogues in return.
Both our at-wills are nerfed hard, our main daily as well and ppl think a tele to target makes that better, we had that ffs, we have been given nothing but a swift kick in the balls.
GG PW you over priced game can eat me.
The nerfs were needed to encourage class diversity in parties and break the 2x rogue 2x mage 1x Cleric meta.
Currently, the only class that can consistently and strongly outweigh the benefit of a 2nd rogue on single target dps when it comes to adding debuffs to the table is a dps specced cleric with high prophet set. And maybe a damage focusing vorp/Crit mage, but I don't know enough about that to be sure.
Guardian fighters and Gwf's can approach equal at best when one accounts for their debuff damage added to party.
Rogues are still the masters of single target, albeit not with the margin it is/was, which is good. Earn your upkeep and be skilled and use the right abilities.
Many of you probably fall into the "wicked reminder trap" and ruin your stealth rotation and/or flurrying and forgoe a better encounter in cases where only 1 or two are attacking the boss, effectively losing more team dps through using it than your team overall gains from the debuff being applied to the boss.
Or maybe you haven't figured out how to safely use duelist's flurry on fights like dracolich without having to slot impossible to catch, or maybe there is some other way you can improve your damage output by changing your skill setup or simply becoming better at weaving timings and skill rotations around how a bossfight unfolds.
Like clerics had to step it up when astral shield was nerfed, but turned out to be fine after adjusting to the new reality of things, rogues will too.
PVP wise, as stated earlier in this thread, rogues (along with the other melee classes) were dumbly overpowered in pvp and rogues were the best pvp ranged class which is silly.
So can almost any class with perfect vorpal and huge debuffs in PvE. Ice knife, lunging + knights challenge, IBS, even hammer of fate heh. It's just that very few have the 12mil+ perfect vorpal
We are definitely dominating, and we are always about to win.
Nope. They don't even have normal vorpals. Nice try though
his point still stands, what you encountered has nothing to do with the rogue class but with debuffs
Ah well
-Desstzo
Exactly. My CW can reduce mitigation by 110% and -1350 armor, that could make a pve cleric hit for 60k...
Thats GPF (45%) RoE tabbed (40%) CoI(15% thaum) arcane power (10% thaum) High viz -1350 armor.
and that is CW alone, imagine that with 45% gwf debuff, 5 stacks wicked reminder, multiple cleric debuffs and damage boosts. If you stacked everything you possibly could we could probably see numbers well over 200k easily.
We are definitely dominating, and we are always about to win.
You struggle with the fighter's? Step up to them for a fist fight, drop stealth and imp to catch immediately and they will drop all their knockdowns on you 95% of the time. In this time you can get 2 flurry animations off and then back out to kite with knives or impact shot while the bleed does its thing ( I have bilethorn to stack with this bleed, its op ) if they are still alive and get toe to toe with you again imp to catch should be back up. rinse. repeat.
Yeah they gave us a free respect, to do what? Every ****ing aspect of the Rogue is Dead!