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Now that TRs are useless, how are we going to get nerfed again?
imthelonewolf
Member Posts: 36
Sorry, this entire patch royally aggravated me.
First of all, I was debating on buying a 110 mount yesterday when they were 600k, now that I made the choice overnight to invest, they skyrocket to over 1.3 mil. My luck, right?
Secondly (and actually on topic) I need to rant.
So, Ive been playing a TR since before Caturday. Every patch has been a nerf. At this point though, theyve really made us useless. So, lets see how, shall we?
What do TRs do? We DPS. Thats it. We single target DPS. We have the worst armor in the game, low HP, and just to top it off, we get the least amount of dodges. But we do damage... right?
Well, not anymore. They nerfed everything we had. Lurkers Assault? The bread and butter? That beautiful 60% plus some more stealth? Less than half we now get. LESS. THAN. HALF. Seriously? Honestly, I wish they kept the 60% and dropped the super recovery to stealth which is still only half useful.
Which brings me to my next point. Why do we need TRs again? DPS and CN runs. Well, GWFs can do the CN runs PLUS a well geared GWF can outdamage a TR (at least for damage in dungeons/skirmish, not sure about single target). Maybe that would change? Nope. They get buffed, our damage gets nerfed from the loss of power.
We were a good class in PvP, with the GF and GWF being arguably better. Oh wait, they both got buffed and we got nerfed hard. Cloud of Steel 8 charges? Really?
So, what can we do now? We have reduced damage, no survivability, and we get outclassed by GWFs in almost every way at this point.
WAIT. WAIT. EVERYONE STOP THE PRESS. GLOAMING CUT WENT FROM BEING THE WORST AT WILL EVER TO... Oh wait its still useless. Great at least we got one nerf, right? Ha...
I think TRs are jokes now, this is the longest april fools day joke Ive ever seen. Honestly, it seems the only possible build is based around stealth, thats seems like it.
Im angry, I think Im done with this game. So many hours put into this game only to continuously be ruined. Every. Single. Patch. Without fail.
./rantover
First of all, I was debating on buying a 110 mount yesterday when they were 600k, now that I made the choice overnight to invest, they skyrocket to over 1.3 mil. My luck, right?
Secondly (and actually on topic) I need to rant.
So, Ive been playing a TR since before Caturday. Every patch has been a nerf. At this point though, theyve really made us useless. So, lets see how, shall we?
What do TRs do? We DPS. Thats it. We single target DPS. We have the worst armor in the game, low HP, and just to top it off, we get the least amount of dodges. But we do damage... right?
Well, not anymore. They nerfed everything we had. Lurkers Assault? The bread and butter? That beautiful 60% plus some more stealth? Less than half we now get. LESS. THAN. HALF. Seriously? Honestly, I wish they kept the 60% and dropped the super recovery to stealth which is still only half useful.
Which brings me to my next point. Why do we need TRs again? DPS and CN runs. Well, GWFs can do the CN runs PLUS a well geared GWF can outdamage a TR (at least for damage in dungeons/skirmish, not sure about single target). Maybe that would change? Nope. They get buffed, our damage gets nerfed from the loss of power.
We were a good class in PvP, with the GF and GWF being arguably better. Oh wait, they both got buffed and we got nerfed hard. Cloud of Steel 8 charges? Really?
So, what can we do now? We have reduced damage, no survivability, and we get outclassed by GWFs in almost every way at this point.
WAIT. WAIT. EVERYONE STOP THE PRESS. GLOAMING CUT WENT FROM BEING THE WORST AT WILL EVER TO... Oh wait its still useless. Great at least we got one nerf, right? Ha...
I think TRs are jokes now, this is the longest april fools day joke Ive ever seen. Honestly, it seems the only possible build is based around stealth, thats seems like it.
Im angry, I think Im done with this game. So many hours put into this game only to continuously be ruined. Every. Single. Patch. Without fail.
./rantover
Post edited by imthelonewolf on
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Comments
Regarding gloaming cut, it is indeed a piece of <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> if you use it the wrong way, if you use it they way you are supposed to however, you will see that it could be the best at-will in some scenarios, I suggest you to read Banelorne's topic where he explains his build and its use of gloaming cut.
And, we will remain good at pvp as well, overpowered some might say... it depends on who you are playing against. If you are playing against abombination you will for sure be called overpowered, test it and tell us ok??
best regards.
I guess we just stand their with our thumb in our keesters and absorb it with our paper armor..or is it plastic..no clue and apparently neither do the people behind the game. They ignorantly put the most hated class in games i.e. a stealth class and as usual they can't deal with any aspect of how to balance it properly. So why would you take a TR into a dungeon now...no cc, little aoe, light armor, 2nd rate dps...Grats on the nerf.
Now you can move on to the next class to screw up. How about take CC from mages that's make sense. Clerics they don't need to heal do they? Taking it out seems like a great idea. How about let warriors fight with no armor and bare hands another great idea you can employ.
Oh also rather than dropping 600k zen on a single 110 mount when you can buy the zen market 110 Clydesdale for around 750k AD(converted to Zen) and its an account wide mount seems like a waste of AD, it doesnt look as cool but functions just the same as the nightmares.
LA teleports you to the target alright, just about teleports you inside them. For someone who uses impact shot I really don't care for this feature, people will start calling for a nerf to this soon enough because everyone's gonna pop LA practically Deft Strike and LB one shot them
Do you call 60% less damage on Slam a "buff"(yes, more then half damage less)?
Dont connect your inability to kill GF/GWF and OPness. Fighters are natural counters to TR just as you are counter to CWs (and yes I m talking about full Cloud of Steel taking down a CW from 100% to 0% while in stealth)
Last time I checked in T2 with a TR he could do more damage to single target then others did striking 15+ targets at once meanwhile.
It's a shame that people like you play this game , it really is .
CW: amazing ae damage and cc
DC: healing and off tanking
GF: tank (bit of cc) and decent dps
GWF: great dps and offtank (bit of cc)
TR: dps to match other classes now, but no secondary effect.
I don't mind so much if they're going to nerf our damage, but we need utility to maintain a use in game. At this point the only people who will be invited to group/premades will be because their friends want to play with them and their haven't got their reroll to max level yet.
Incidently, the momentum nerf to throwing daggers while jumping is huge. Rogues lack range. A CW can kill a rogue before they ever get close and we can't attack on the move where ranged can stop and disable, catch up and kill.
so from 60% to 25% by your definition is "slight"...
First of all, tell me who "stole" your role? Point me at ANY class with better single target DPS. (with same gear ofc)
Ok, if you cry you cant get close, lets count with me:
2x shift gap closer
3x stealth (Bait and Switch refill, Invisible Infiltrator refill)
2x teleport on target (Deft Strike + daily)
1x Impossible to Catch complete CC immunity
to sum up you v got 8, yes EIGHT ways how to close gap!
plus mid range(40+) and high range skills:
8x Cloud of Steel at-will
4x Impact Shot
1x Blitz
1x Shadow Strike
thats 14 ranged skill uses.
Now, please, tell me how hard is to get close/get ranged kill.
You must be either completely drunk, experiencing epileptic fit or temporary paralyzed not-to be able reach your target destination.
when the aoe DPS classes deal more damage then the single target DPS classes, then the role got stolen
and all that with just 3 encounter slots and only 2 dailys...you must be really a great hacker to use all those at the same time
Ah well
-Desstzo
If it changes anything, you can have 8 gapclosers and 12 ranged used skills at a time (8x Cloud of Steel, 4x Impact Shot + 2x shift 3x stealth, 2x teleport, 1x ItC), but it is hard to explain to some ppl who wish not to understand and so they pretend they cant count to ten.
And this exactly is the only reason why TRs shouldnt be nerfed - many players play TR not that they favour the gameplay, but simply because they heard TR is best... and when they are about to reduce the gap TRs are ahead, no wonder they whine for it was their main reason to play TR at first place.
Number of TR(and applies a bit to CWs too) also play role on their performace.
More TRs -> higher number of low skilled playing class -> lower overal performace of class (then its maximum when played most skillfully) and this is whats keeping TRs
Ah well
-Desstzo
interesting question, I will start counting when i v got time. Btw anyone know how much m/s is regular run speed ingame?
1- given what was planned before and what will actually come out, the nerf was nearly nothing, the class is still a powerfull damage dealer.
2- LA reduced damage, but now it teleports you to enemy unit, and cant be cancelled by control powers, so in my opinion it is still pretty juicy for pve when you need to close gaps to a boss after getting away from his AoE attacks and it was buffed for pvp, because now its way easier to deal the LA+LB combo, and even though its not the 60% dmg buff anymore, you will still hit like a truck given you are properly geared
3- CoS nerf wasnt as hard as you think, you may have less daggers now but you will also have to wait less time for it to be full for another unload (36 secs to 24 secs, not that bad).
In fact you should be a bit thankful, because for the first time in god knows how long, the patch didnt arrive just to remove stuff from rogue, it also gave something back, at least now gloaming cut can be a very decent damage dealer and a nice asset for perma stealth build (it already was before, but now its even better)
claiming the class is useless just because of the nerfs that arrived serves to show that you dont really know much of the class and clearly dont know how easy it will be to addapt to those changes.
I think he meant that a rogue has many ways to attack from range or close gaps if he wants to. Of course we cant have the whole list he posted set at once, but we can work our power bars to nail down other ranged classes, be it by gap closing habilities or ranged ones.
For example, as i stated 1 LA and you are glued to a CW with 25% dmg buff still in stealth ready to land a LB (the mage wont even have the time to teleport away from LB considering you are not walking into him and making him aware of your presence, but teleporting to him), pop a ITC and then he wont be able to CC you, from there proceed to impact shots and CoS.
there are other easy ways to nail down a CW but thats one that any begginer to rogues will milk as much as he can. Sorry to say but now it became ridiculously easy for a rogue to kill a CW (wasnt really hard before)
Im not saying the class is OP (although it will be to CWs now), but we cant have the nerve of stating it is "resourceless" or "useless"
Bad rogues are going to get worse.
You cant 1 shot 5 out of 6 people anymore, you have to actually fight them and use your abilities wisely? OMFG LETS START A RIOT!
Please. Continue to cry more, please quit playing TRs. You are an embarrassment to the rest of us.
So sorry TR's arent the flavor of the month class anymore and you will actually have to know what you are doing to be good.
These whiny stupid threads are a constant source of entertainment for me while I'm at work.
Thanks again for all the laughs =P
That is all
Alysin Chains
X.o.X.o
Mindflayer
It is not about the role of TRs in PVP, it is the mess that the TRs are now in PVE end game dungeons. That is what I am upset about, PVP we can still manage it, but in PVE Epic dungeons wow that is a different bull fight.
TR have already, like others have said, a weak armor, few HP their only chance is outdamage the bosses from the begining to the end of the fight, that btw must not last long or the rogue would be killed anyway ,but now they cannot do even that. And of course who want to team with a class that needs babysitting?Solo? good luck and pray
I do both PvE and PvP. Im **** good at both. I picked TR because I prefer stealth classes, warriors and magic and stuff don't do it for me. It just so happened that TRs were good.
Now that I've calmed down, lets see about our gap closers:
GWF and GF you dont need gap closers. GFs will CC close onto you and kill you. GWFs wanna gap close too.
CW and DC:
3x+ shift gap closers.
Stealth sucks, at this point, you should have taken enough damage by them (especially the CW) so that they you can be seen in stealth, plus I dont use either of those. The first one sucks.
Deft isnt good in PvP. CWs can just dash away.
ITC is good. Too bad they can just dash away.
So 8 cloud of steel, that start off weak and get stronger as you use them. So you mean, when they start to do damage BAM they get nerfed? Oh that sounds ok.
Blitz sucks.
Impact Shot is the only thing I felt needed a nerf from TRs. Maybe removal of extra stealth from LA, but Imapct does do too much damage in PvP.
Blitz and Shadow suck.
Anyway, GFs look like they got buffed. Im so happy that GWFs got Unstoppable "nerfed", although it sounds like they made it do what its supposed to do.
So now we watch as the TRs become the GWFS of Beta.
Every single end game boss can be solo'd by a TR "without" taking any damage. Your point about weak armor is mute. Your comment about the fight taking long and the rogue dieing also has no frame of referance, as there is not one single Enrage Timer on any boss, in this entire game. Again, point is mute.
Ok, Duelist Fury is taking a hit. I'm no math wiz when it comes to dps charts and what have ya, but I doubt its as bad as what people are saying. Especially on the Draco, for me atleast, as I dont even use Duelist Fury on him anyway, so nothing there will change.
Reading today though I seen some changes as far as certain abilities taking a lesser boost from power, that obviously will change some things. But again, how much are we talking? If it were any other class I would say its a big deal, but just about every single decently geared rogue "10-11k", is running atleast 49% crit. I for one am sitting at 52% with the build, and zero Crit Gems slotted. Meaning the amount of base dmg we will lose will always be made up for by the amount of crit/per strike.
I will most certainly be the first one to admit after the patch if I am terrible wrong, but I highly doubt its going to be anywhere near what a large majority of TR's are saying.
Most will agree the larger majority of players just dont know how to be affective with there class. They are always the ones who immediately jump on the forums and ask everyone else what there build is, where there stat points should be etc etc. I'm not saying its wrong, but its obviously not doing any good to bring the level of skill up amongst players in this game. These imo, are the flavor of the month guys, and band wagon jumpers with serious l2p issues.
I'm not sure what your point is, or where your even headed with this random mess of <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>, not to mention why you are even talking about gap closers in PvP for TR's..when we have stealth. Lemme explain
For me while in PvP, it so so so rare, that I use stealth at a distance, to run up on someone. As I am not running a stealth based/crutch build, my stealth doesnt last very long, so it would be silly for me to do so. The times I use Stealth are generally just before I am close enough to attack someone. For example: I'm coming up to a CW 1 vs 1, I run, get close, wait till I see an animation they are going to cast, I dodge, stealth, and in a matter of about 1 second I am on them ready to use whichever ability I chose to. My stealth isnt wasted, and now I can attack with the bonus dmg from stealth. My favorite combo for fighting a CW is as follows. Dazing strike in stealth, lashing blade, impact shot. If by some miracle they are still alive, I have 2 more Impacts, and generally they are ****ting in there pants trying to get away, that I havent even been damage at this point, and my stealth is up again, and I can stealth/impact >Dead Mage. I see soooo many TR's that waste there LA/LB on a CW with a full shield. That is definately a l2p issue, and makes me laugh everytime.
CoS despite popular opinion, is not even close to our best ability to wreck someone in PvP, nor is it even needed most times if the TR has even a mediocre idea of how to PvP.
My advise to you my friend is stop reading the forums and listening to everyone on here, there "IS" alot of good knowledge, but you have to sift through a mountain of <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> and whiny baby threads to find them. Just play your TR, if something isnt working for you, try something else. TR's are so **** powerful when played right its disgusting, and no...We dont need a perfect vorpal or 7 G-Tenebs to be good. I've run into so many Credit Card Players that have less skill in this game then my 7 year old daughter its laughable.
GL to you!
That is NOT 30 ft. Threatening Rush is more like 10 ft.
You re right, its 15 - 25ft max. Their other charges are at 30ft.
Three guilds have all said "not another rogue" when I've joined. Three guilds have told me they have no use for rogues in PVE. The damage gap wasn't large enough to justify taking a rogue over a class with good damage and a second utility. Build the core of your group (tank, healer, control wizard for AE and cc) and you've two spots left.
A second CW is a lot of extra damage and with the second cc the group takes less damage.
A second DC (maybe they've been nerfed more) adds so much extra healing, encounters are trivial.
GWF had a huge increase to damage last major patch iirc. And their ability to offtank and sustain damage is like a bit more control with solid dps.
The only class you probably wouldn't want two of is GF, but most groups probably want at least one.
Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe our damage isn't nerfed in pve single target dps. The numbers in the patch notes suggest it will be. I just don't see how a TR will be wanted for a pve run outside of exploiting/trash avoidance. If I had trouble before this patch, it will be near impossible later.
I didn't roll TR because I thought it was OP. I rolled a TR because "Neverwinter" is based on D&D and rogue is my favourite table top class. Very little translates into the MMO unfortunately, but then again I haven't played 4E either. I didn't expect to enter stealth in the middle of combat, and I expected dodge/deflect to be more useful. I also expected more strategic play and a bit more "cc" ish options. Table top doesn't translate well to MMO so I rolled with it. Now it seems unless I want to solo, I need to reroll.
Those determined to prove their hardcore and can still be a threat to be reckoned with I wish the best of luck. I might wait for a new class I find more appealing or just move on to a new game. At the very least I'll get around to trying the Feywild. I just don't have high expectations.
Oh, and to those who say "just need to play with the specs to make them work with the new changes" respecs cost zen. Are we going to be forced to buy zen every patch just to keep our character playable?