Nothing wrong to skip thing.
Game is broken anyway, if u want to play with it then fine, enjoy your 1 hour long dungeon run and garbage drop instead of me getting 300K worth AD item.
I see what you are saying, but lets be honest. There are exploits. Boss1/2 Karr. Boss 2 CN. All of FH & many more.
Karru also says requires 8300 GS, anyone ever beat the 2nd boss legit before the 50 million adds pile up and kill you with a team of even less than 10k GS? I killed him legit a few times with a group of 12-13k and we barely killed him before adds slaughtered us.
It's simple logic. This is a video game and the "rules" are hard coded into the game world so there is no such thing as cheating. If it is possible to be done, then it can be done until the "rules" are changed by the devs. If I tell you to screw this screw into a 2x4 and you notice a screwdriver on a desk 15 feet away are you going to screw it in with your fingers or go get the screwdriver? Are you a cheater for picking up the screwdriver because I didn't say you could? lol...
Guild Master of <Enemy Team>
We are definitely dominating, and we are always about to win.
0
rofehrMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 22Arc User
Karru also says requires 8300 GS, anyone ever beat the 2nd boss legit before the 50 million adds pile up and kill you with a team of even less than 10k GS? I killed him legit a few times with a group of 12-13k and we barely killed him before adds slaughtered us.
It's simple logic. This is a video game and the "rules" are hard coded into the game world so there is no such thing as cheating. If it is possible to be done, then it can be done until the "rules" are changed by the devs. If I tell you to screw this screw into a 2x4 and you notice a screwdriver on a desk 15 feet away are you going to screw it in with your fingers or go get the screwdriver? Are you a cheater for picking up the screwdriver because I didn't say you could? lol...
That's the problem you need a GS of 12-13k,
to do the dungeons without using exploits.
But it is impossible to do it with the GS(8.3k) the dungeon requires.
It's simple logic. This is a video game and the "rules" are hard coded into the game world so there is no such thing as cheating. If it is possible to be done, then it can be done until the "rules" are changed by the devs. If I tell you to screw this screw into a 2x4 and you notice a screwdriver on a desk 15 feet away are you going to screw it in with your fingers or go get the screwdriver? Are you a cheater for picking up the screwdriver because I didn't say you could? lol...
Yeah such simple logic that you need a real world analogy to try to provide an example of how a video game has "rules". So by your simple logic it's okay to shoot someone, even if someone didn't tell you to do so, because you can!
Sorry I don't believe you honestly believe that because you can do something then you're allowed to do it. If you did you wouldn't be talking about beating a boss legit; the word legit would be redundant if there wasn't a non legit way.
Yeah such simple logic that you need a real world analogy to try to provide an example of how a video game has "rules". So by your simple logic it's okay to shoot someone, even if someone didn't tell you to do so, because you can!
Sorry I don't believe you honestly believe that because you can do something then you're allowed to do it. If you did you wouldn't be talking about beating a boss legit; the word legit would be redundant if there wasn't a non legit way.
Lol you are acting like a video game parallels real life. Yes it is ok to shoot someone IN A VIDEO GAME as long as it is coded into the game. Once they release the ranger I will happily shoot everyone... BECAUSE I CAN. My analogy was completely accurate as I provided an amoral situation (lacking of morals ie isn't right or wrong) and a video game world is also an amoral world. You can play games where you run around with a chain saw chopping people's limbs off, so what, it's a video game. "right" and "wrong" don't apply here, what is able to be done without hacking or the use of a 3rd party program is completely fair game so long as the EULA doesn't specifically state otherwise.
Logic goes out the window and bias takes over b/c people can't live with the fact that not killing all the enemies in your path is a viable option. I don't understand that at all, as D&D is so much more than combat (at least 3.0-3.5 was...) It's about problem solving using any means possible, and that's what players are doing and will continue to do.
Guild Master of <Enemy Team>
We are definitely dominating, and we are always about to win.
Karru also says requires 8300 GS, anyone ever beat the 2nd boss legit before the 50 million adds pile up and kill you with a team of even less than 10k GS? I killed him legit a few times with a group of 12-13k and we barely killed him before adds slaughtered us.
8300 is the minimum requirement, below which you can't even enter the door.... No ones says you should be able to beat any boss with minimum requirement GS...
8300 is the minimum requirement, below which you can't even enter the door.... No ones says you should be able to beat any boss with minimum requirement GS...
fact still remains that even 10-11k have trouble completing it legit, especially 2nd boss. And if the dungeon is so much harder than the GS requirement then why let 8300 GS in if they are going to bring everyone else down?
Guild Master of <Enemy Team>
We are definitely dominating, and we are always about to win.
8300 is the minimum requirement, below which you can't even enter the door.... No ones says you should be able to beat any boss with minimum requirement GS...
But you can do that in all dungeons. I said many times the first people doing the dungeons did it with the bare minimum GS. I was among those people. Yes we needed some time to learn strat but it is definitely doable. Including the famous "2nd Karrundax boss". I don't see why this one should be an issue.
Lol you are acting like a video game parallels real life. Yes it is ok to shoot someone IN A VIDEO GAME as long as it is coded into the game. Once they release the ranger I will happily shoot everyone... BECAUSE I CAN. My analogy was completely accurate as I provided an amoral situation (lacking of morals ie isn't right or wrong) and a video game world is also an amoral world. You can play games where you run around with a chain saw chopping people's limbs off, so what, it's a video game. "right" and "wrong" don't apply here, what is able to be done without hacking or the use of a 3rd party program is completely fair game so long as the EULA doesn't specifically state otherwise.
Logic goes out the window and bias takes over b/c people can't live with the fact that not killing all the enemies in your path is a viable option. I don't understand that at all, as D&D is so much more than combat (at least 3.0-3.5 was...) It's about problem solving using any means possible, and that's what players are doing and will continue to do.
Erm, it was you that provided a real life example, I just provided ANOTHER example to demonstrate that a real life example is not relevant to a computer game.
I didn't say anything about whether not killing stuff in your path is a viable option or not, I replied to you pretending that if you can do it then you're allowed to do it.
p.s. I've noticed that nearly all your posts either start or end with lol. It makes your poorly constructed posts look even worse.
fact still remains that even 10-11k have trouble completing it legit, especially 2nd boss. And if the dungeon is so much harder than the GS requirement then why let 8300 GS in if they are going to bring everyone else down?
Still calling it legit. I suspected you didn't actually read/understand my post. Probably too busy laughing at your own posts.
Oh the lower GS score is so that good players can do content which challenges them. It doesn't mean everyone can do it because they bought stuff from the AH.
Erm, it was you that provided a real life example, I just provided ANOTHER example to demonstrate that a real life example is not relevant to a computer game.
I didn't say anything about whether not killing stuff in your path is a viable option or not, I replied to you pretending that if you can do it then you're allowed to do it.
I even gave a definition of the word beside it... my real life example was AMORAL, just as the video game world is amoral. Your situation falsely twists the truth to your liking, but the fact remains that video games are amoral and unless it is against the EULA it is not cheating or exploiting.
@ diogene: I joined in very early open beta and was also among the first running T2's and CN. Back then we wiped our way through, learned the tactics, and spent 1.5 hours+ in the dungeon. Now that the dungeons are well known and gear is prevalent I refuse to spend that same 1.5 hours every time I run one, sorry but I'm not going to do that when it can be finished in 20 minutes. If you choose to do that then more power to you, but the vast majority of players are doing it the fast way, and if I want to be able to get gear for my characters and progress then I am going to make runs as quickly as possible.
This is a somewhat moot point anyway as DD was the big time dependency anyway and that effectively ends tomorrow as you can't sell the gear you get from it.
Guild Master of <Enemy Team>
We are definitely dominating, and we are always about to win.
Still calling it legit. I suspected you didn't actually read/understand my post. Probably too busy laughing at your own posts.
Oh the lower GS score is so that good players can do content which challenges them. It doesn't mean everyone can do it because they bought stuff from the AH.
Lol I used that term b/c that is the commonly used term on these forums, as ignorant people like yourself have everyone that wants to complete things the quickest and easiest way pegged as exploiters, cheaters, and illegitimate players.
Put on your thinking cap and try real hard to understand this, video games do not have morals or laws. The "law" of a video game is the EULA that you sign, if you break the EULA cryptic will take action against you, if you are not breaking the EULA then you are not doing anything wrong. Just as certain situations in real life are amoral (very few actually which is why it's nice to have video games) all situations that do not break the EULA of the game are amoral.
If I kill you 32 times in 1 pvp I have done nothing wrong, but the moment I tea bag you and /say something vulgar about you personally I can be reported, not b/c what I did is innately wrong, but b/c the EULA does not permit it.
I realize you were brought up thinking name calling is bad, and taking short cuts is lazy, but this is real world and what's "wrong" is determined by the law and not by your personal feelings.
I can already see this thread getting shut down...
Guild Master of <Enemy Team>
We are definitely dominating, and we are always about to win.
I even gave a definition of the word beside it... my real life example was AMORAL, just as the video game world is amoral. Your situation falsely twists the truth to your liking, but the fact remains that video games are amoral and unless it is against the EULA it is not cheating or exploiting.
Being amoral is not a definition, it's a quality or attribute. So what if it's amoral, you specificly said "This is a video game and the "rules" are hard coded into the game world so there is no such thing as cheating. If it is possible to be done, then it can be done until the "rules" are changed by the devs."
There are no hard coded rules or devs to change them in the real world. Being so specific about a game world and then giving a real life example is nothing to do with being moral or amoral, it's to do with being completely irrelevant.
My example didn't falsely twist the truth; you said it was simple logic, so I used simple logic, it was as irrelevant as your example, which was the point.
The EULA is nothing to do with whether something is cheating or exploiting. Exploiting by it's very definition is doing something which you shouldn't be allowed to do according to the design. The EULA is about what you can do with the software, not what you can do in game.
Being amoral is not a definition, it's a quality or attribute. So what if it's amoral, you specificly said "This is a video game and the "rules" are hard coded into the game world so there is no such thing as cheating. If it is possible to be done, then it can be done until the "rules" are changed by the devs."
There are no hard coded rules or devs to change them in the real world. Being so specific about a game world and then giving a real life example is nothing to do with being moral or amoral, it's to do with being completely irrelevant.
My example didn't falsely twist the truth; you said it was simple logic, so I used simple logic, it was as irrelevant as your example, which was the point.
The EULA is nothing to do with whether something is cheating or exploiting. Exploiting by it's very definition is doing something which you shouldn't be allowed to do according to the design. The EULA is about what you can do with the software, not what you can do in game.
Lol so we have no laws in the real world? and no Legislative branch that changes them? Let me break it down very simply. In the game world, taking a shortcut or killing a boss while the boss cannot attack back because you are standing a ledge that he can't reach is not wrong, nor is it cheating, it is using your surroundings to make a task easier. <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> in a screw with your fingers, while possible, does not make sense when there is a screwdriver sitting in the nearby surroundings that would make that task much easier.
Shooting someone is against the law, way over the top, and against the majority of (sane) people's morals, and has no place in this discussion other than to pretend that it gives your point validity.
If we lived in Saudi Arabia and you stole something from me I could chop your hand off with no repercussions. (I don't know if that law is still in effect to be honest). Is that wrong? I think so. Does what I think make any difference whatsoever? No.
Guild Master of <Enemy Team>
We are definitely dominating, and we are always about to win.
Lol I used that term b/c that is the commonly used term on these forums, as ignorant people like yourself have everyone that wants to complete things the quickest and easiest way pegged as exploiters, cheaters, and illegitimate players.
No, what I actually said was that you used a real life example to show that a video game has rules. Last time I checked that is nothing to do with having an opinion on what type of person you are. Maybe you would do better to reply to what I actually said than generalising what other people may or may not say.
Put on your thinking cap and try real hard to understand this, video games do not have morals or laws. The "law" of a video game is the EULA that you sign, if you break the EULA cryptic will take action against you, if you are not breaking the EULA then you are not doing anything wrong. Just as certain situations in real life are amoral (very few actually which is why it's nice to have video games) all situations that do not break the EULA of the game are amoral.
Complete nonsense. The EULA relates to what you can do with the software, and who owns it. Nothing whatsoever to do with the game world.
If I kill you 32 times in 1 pvp I have done nothing wrong, but the moment I tea bag you and /say something vulgar about you personally I can be reported, not b/c what I did is innately wrong, but b/c the EULA does not permit it.
Wow is that really allowed in pvp, thanks for the info. Being able to report someone doesn't make what was reported wrong. And it's nothing to do with the EULA.
I realize you were brought up thinking name calling is bad, and taking short cuts is lazy, but this is real world and what's "wrong" is determined by the law and not by your personal feelings.
I can already see this thread getting shut down...
Ah getting desperate and pretending to know how I was brought up. I'm Scottish mate, bad language is a way of life, but if I resorted to that all my posts would be editted or deleted. Name calling has no place in a discussion, but what does it have to do with the discussion at hand? Not the first time you've plucked something out of thin air.
Again, when did I say anything about taking short cuts being lazy? I've already restated what I did say. If I do a run I'll either do short cuts or not do short cuts. That doesn't mean I pretend I believe they were intended.
Lol so we have no laws in the real world? and no Legislative branch that changes them? Let me break it down very simply. In the game world, taking a shortcut or killing a boss while the boss cannot attack back because you are standing a ledge that he can't reach is not wrong, nor is it cheating, it is using your surroundings to make a task easier. <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> in a screw with your fingers, while possible, does not make sense when there is a screwdriver sitting in the nearby surroundings that would make that task much easier.
Shooting someone is against the law, way over the top, and against the majority of (sane) people's morals, and has no place in this discussion other than to pretend that it gives your point validity.
If we lived in Saudi Arabia and you stole something from me I could chop your hand off with no repercussions. (I don't know if that law is still in effect to be honest). Is that wrong? I think so. Does what I think make any difference whatsoever? No.
What does any of this have to do with anything I've said? You gave a real life example to demonstrate that a game has "rules". I'm now going to put you on ignore because you just make stuff up instead of replying to what I actually said.
Being amoral is not a definition, it's a quality or attribute. So what if it's amoral, you specificly said "This is a video game and the "rules" are hard coded into the game world so there is no such thing as cheating. If it is possible to be done, then it can be done until the "rules" are changed by the devs."
There are no hard coded rules or devs to change them in the real world. Being so specific about a game world and then giving a real life example is nothing to do with being moral or amoral, it's to do with being completely irrelevant.
My example didn't falsely twist the truth; you said it was simple logic, so I used simple logic, it was as irrelevant as your example, which was the point.
The EULA is nothing to do with whether something is cheating or exploiting. Exploiting by it's very definition is doing something which you shouldn't be allowed to do according to the design. The EULA is about what you can do with the software, not what you can do in game.
If the rules were hard-coded there would be no GM anyway. This is a pointless argument, give up before this topic becomes another proof of the godwin law.
Skipping TRASH monster to get to boss at end is not an exploit/cheat/whatever some of you want to call it. How many times can it be say that not everyone wants to look at every single stone in a dungeon.It after all call a dungeon run not walk. :rolleyes:
Sneaking around the edge of a room to avoid aggroing a mob - not an exploit.
Using holes in the map so mobs can't see/attack you - Exploit.
Using campfires as Respawn/Healing points - not an exploit
If it was a Exploit CN would have been closed months ago and it would have been fixed and everybody doing it would have been banned as it would of broken the ToS, but it as not been fixed , so PWE dont care and it is obviously NOT a exploit, as you call it..
So they should have removed one of the sources of top tier gear, the only dungeon you can do the daily in at 60 and banned 90% of the players who've reached level 60 because they view this as an exploit?
Wow, that would kill this game faster than pretty much anything else they can do.
I am not trying to justify anything, but DONT blame the players, cheating is when you use a script or cheat like that, just simply running from 1 fire to another is not exactly a 'cheat', its been like that for months and months in CN, if PWE had any realy problems about it, it would have been fixed a long long time ago, but no they leave it, people are not 'Cheating' there just doing what everybody else does, theres even live streams on Twitch.tv with guilds running campfires every day, PWE dont care, if they did it would be fixed.
Agree campfires in CN are broke, but until PWE actualy fix them you can not call everybody 'cheats' 'for doing fire runs
Cheating in MMOs is defined as using glitches, holes in the map or mechanics in an unintended manner. Fire runs are exploits and cheating, plain and simple.
0
seisem2Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
The T2 Dungeons are listed as having an Average play time ogf about 45 minutes. If you grind through all the Trash in a dungeon even with a well geared team it takes an hour or more to complete. That is with 0 deaths and no hold ups. So Yeah even the super geared players still hop skip and jump. Some bosses can be impossible to beat even with 12-13k groups Like Temple of Spider and Dread Vaults if you dont have a specific group setup that knows what they are doing. These groups also tend to exclude GWF players.
This is a false statement. It takes us about 25 minutes to clear to the boss in spider, without any cheats or campfire running. No glitching mobs to fall over into the water at the 1st boss, no skipping the the 2nd boss, etc. We have a geared group that is between 11k-13k across our party and we can beat TOS and DV (even tho we don't really bother with it) no problem. And, I run on my GWF and I lead DPS by far. A lot of misconceptions you have about the game unfortunately.
That's the problem you need a GS of 12-13k,
to do the dungeons without using exploits.
But it is impossible to do it with the GS(8.3k) the dungeon requires.
They do need to fix the requirements. This is a progression game. I rarely run pugs, but when I do I noticed a lot of people that look like they just dinged 60, threw a couple of junk epics on, and are on their way to the dungeon. I would prefer to have it where you have to clear T1 Epic Dungeons or have some sort of Set Piece requirement to enter T2. This way under geared players don't clog up your run.
Comments
Game is broken anyway, if u want to play with it then fine, enjoy your 1 hour long dungeon run and garbage drop instead of me getting 300K worth AD item.
Karru also says requires 8300 GS, anyone ever beat the 2nd boss legit before the 50 million adds pile up and kill you with a team of even less than 10k GS? I killed him legit a few times with a group of 12-13k and we barely killed him before adds slaughtered us.
It's simple logic. This is a video game and the "rules" are hard coded into the game world so there is no such thing as cheating. If it is possible to be done, then it can be done until the "rules" are changed by the devs. If I tell you to screw this screw into a 2x4 and you notice a screwdriver on a desk 15 feet away are you going to screw it in with your fingers or go get the screwdriver? Are you a cheater for picking up the screwdriver because I didn't say you could? lol...
We are definitely dominating, and we are always about to win.
That's the problem you need a GS of 12-13k,
to do the dungeons without using exploits.
But it is impossible to do it with the GS(8.3k) the dungeon requires.
Sorry I don't believe you honestly believe that because you can do something then you're allowed to do it. If you did you wouldn't be talking about beating a boss legit; the word legit would be redundant if there wasn't a non legit way.
Lol you are acting like a video game parallels real life. Yes it is ok to shoot someone IN A VIDEO GAME as long as it is coded into the game. Once they release the ranger I will happily shoot everyone... BECAUSE I CAN. My analogy was completely accurate as I provided an amoral situation (lacking of morals ie isn't right or wrong) and a video game world is also an amoral world. You can play games where you run around with a chain saw chopping people's limbs off, so what, it's a video game. "right" and "wrong" don't apply here, what is able to be done without hacking or the use of a 3rd party program is completely fair game so long as the EULA doesn't specifically state otherwise.
Logic goes out the window and bias takes over b/c people can't live with the fact that not killing all the enemies in your path is a viable option. I don't understand that at all, as D&D is so much more than combat (at least 3.0-3.5 was...) It's about problem solving using any means possible, and that's what players are doing and will continue to do.
We are definitely dominating, and we are always about to win.
8300 is the minimum requirement, below which you can't even enter the door.... No ones says you should be able to beat any boss with minimum requirement GS...
fact still remains that even 10-11k have trouble completing it legit, especially 2nd boss. And if the dungeon is so much harder than the GS requirement then why let 8300 GS in if they are going to bring everyone else down?
We are definitely dominating, and we are always about to win.
But you can do that in all dungeons. I said many times the first people doing the dungeons did it with the bare minimum GS. I was among those people. Yes we needed some time to learn strat but it is definitely doable. Including the famous "2nd Karrundax boss". I don't see why this one should be an issue.
Erm, it was you that provided a real life example, I just provided ANOTHER example to demonstrate that a real life example is not relevant to a computer game.
I didn't say anything about whether not killing stuff in your path is a viable option or not, I replied to you pretending that if you can do it then you're allowed to do it.
p.s. I've noticed that nearly all your posts either start or end with lol. It makes your poorly constructed posts look even worse.
Still calling it legit. I suspected you didn't actually read/understand my post. Probably too busy laughing at your own posts.
Oh the lower GS score is so that good players can do content which challenges them. It doesn't mean everyone can do it because they bought stuff from the AH.
I even gave a definition of the word beside it... my real life example was AMORAL, just as the video game world is amoral. Your situation falsely twists the truth to your liking, but the fact remains that video games are amoral and unless it is against the EULA it is not cheating or exploiting.
@ diogene: I joined in very early open beta and was also among the first running T2's and CN. Back then we wiped our way through, learned the tactics, and spent 1.5 hours+ in the dungeon. Now that the dungeons are well known and gear is prevalent I refuse to spend that same 1.5 hours every time I run one, sorry but I'm not going to do that when it can be finished in 20 minutes. If you choose to do that then more power to you, but the vast majority of players are doing it the fast way, and if I want to be able to get gear for my characters and progress then I am going to make runs as quickly as possible.
This is a somewhat moot point anyway as DD was the big time dependency anyway and that effectively ends tomorrow as you can't sell the gear you get from it.
We are definitely dominating, and we are always about to win.
Lol I used that term b/c that is the commonly used term on these forums, as ignorant people like yourself have everyone that wants to complete things the quickest and easiest way pegged as exploiters, cheaters, and illegitimate players.
Put on your thinking cap and try real hard to understand this, video games do not have morals or laws. The "law" of a video game is the EULA that you sign, if you break the EULA cryptic will take action against you, if you are not breaking the EULA then you are not doing anything wrong. Just as certain situations in real life are amoral (very few actually which is why it's nice to have video games) all situations that do not break the EULA of the game are amoral.
If I kill you 32 times in 1 pvp I have done nothing wrong, but the moment I tea bag you and /say something vulgar about you personally I can be reported, not b/c what I did is innately wrong, but b/c the EULA does not permit it.
I realize you were brought up thinking name calling is bad, and taking short cuts is lazy, but this is real world and what's "wrong" is determined by the law and not by your personal feelings.
I can already see this thread getting shut down...
We are definitely dominating, and we are always about to win.
There are no hard coded rules or devs to change them in the real world. Being so specific about a game world and then giving a real life example is nothing to do with being moral or amoral, it's to do with being completely irrelevant.
My example didn't falsely twist the truth; you said it was simple logic, so I used simple logic, it was as irrelevant as your example, which was the point.
The EULA is nothing to do with whether something is cheating or exploiting. Exploiting by it's very definition is doing something which you shouldn't be allowed to do according to the design. The EULA is about what you can do with the software, not what you can do in game.
Lol so we have no laws in the real world? and no Legislative branch that changes them? Let me break it down very simply. In the game world, taking a shortcut or killing a boss while the boss cannot attack back because you are standing a ledge that he can't reach is not wrong, nor is it cheating, it is using your surroundings to make a task easier. <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> in a screw with your fingers, while possible, does not make sense when there is a screwdriver sitting in the nearby surroundings that would make that task much easier.
Shooting someone is against the law, way over the top, and against the majority of (sane) people's morals, and has no place in this discussion other than to pretend that it gives your point validity.
If we lived in Saudi Arabia and you stole something from me I could chop your hand off with no repercussions. (I don't know if that law is still in effect to be honest). Is that wrong? I think so. Does what I think make any difference whatsoever? No.
We are definitely dominating, and we are always about to win.
Complete nonsense. The EULA relates to what you can do with the software, and who owns it. Nothing whatsoever to do with the game world.
Wow is that really allowed in pvp, thanks for the info. Being able to report someone doesn't make what was reported wrong. And it's nothing to do with the EULA.
Ah getting desperate and pretending to know how I was brought up. I'm Scottish mate, bad language is a way of life, but if I resorted to that all my posts would be editted or deleted. Name calling has no place in a discussion, but what does it have to do with the discussion at hand? Not the first time you've plucked something out of thin air.
Again, when did I say anything about taking short cuts being lazy? I've already restated what I did say. If I do a run I'll either do short cuts or not do short cuts. That doesn't mean I pretend I believe they were intended.
If the rules were hard-coded there would be no GM anyway. This is a pointless argument, give up before this topic becomes another proof of the godwin law.
We are definitely dominating, and we are always about to win.
Sneaking around the edge of a room to avoid aggroing a mob - not an exploit.
Using holes in the map so mobs can't see/attack you - Exploit.
Using campfires as Respawn/Healing points - not an exploit
Using campfires to skip killing mobs - exploit.
So they should have removed one of the sources of top tier gear, the only dungeon you can do the daily in at 60 and banned 90% of the players who've reached level 60 because they view this as an exploit?
Wow, that would kill this game faster than pretty much anything else they can do.
Cheating in MMOs is defined as using glitches, holes in the map or mechanics in an unintended manner. Fire runs are exploits and cheating, plain and simple.
This is a false statement. It takes us about 25 minutes to clear to the boss in spider, without any cheats or campfire running. No glitching mobs to fall over into the water at the 1st boss, no skipping the the 2nd boss, etc. We have a geared group that is between 11k-13k across our party and we can beat TOS and DV (even tho we don't really bother with it) no problem. And, I run on my GWF and I lead DPS by far. A lot of misconceptions you have about the game unfortunately.
Catalina Erantzo - GWF 13.9K GS
<Future> Guild on Dragon - Legit Non Exploit Guild (We are always recruiting great players)
Future Guild Recruitment Thread: http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?475381-lt-Future-gt-Legit-Non-Exploit-Guild-Recruiting
They do need to fix the requirements. This is a progression game. I rarely run pugs, but when I do I noticed a lot of people that look like they just dinged 60, threw a couple of junk epics on, and are on their way to the dungeon. I would prefer to have it where you have to clear T1 Epic Dungeons or have some sort of Set Piece requirement to enter T2. This way under geared players don't clog up your run.
Catalina Erantzo - GWF 13.9K GS
<Future> Guild on Dragon - Legit Non Exploit Guild (We are always recruiting great players)
Future Guild Recruitment Thread: http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?475381-lt-Future-gt-Legit-Non-Exploit-Guild-Recruiting