So what if ancient item isn't BiS? BiS for a PvP GF is non-set epics + blue gloves, so? who cares? The only thing that sets one player apart from another is usually weapon/armor enchants 2 TR's in the same exact gear but one of them has a perfect vorpal. One of them might One shot 4/5 of the enemy team while the guy with no vorpal has to pop lurkers just to get a kill against good players. Enchantments are 95% of the cost of gear.
Guild Master of <Enemy Team>
We are definitely dominating, and we are always about to win.
So what if ancient item isn't BiS? BiS for a PvP GF is non-set epics + blue gloves, so? who cares? The only thing that sets one player apart from another is usually weapon/armor enchants 2 TR's in the same exact gear but one of them has a perfect vorpal. One of them might One shot 4/5 of the enemy team while the guy with no vorpal has to pop lurkers just to get a kill against good players. Enchantments are 95% of the cost of gear.
Regen build goes against the way that a class is meant to be played, or prevents others from playing their class the way it's meant to be played in case of semi geared tank vs perfect vorp/rank 9 enchant rogue. LB will do around 18k dps non buffed on a semi geared tank, who has around 33k hp with the hp/regen gear + tenes. And the way regen works, it restores more hp per tick once your health goes below 50%. LB is the only real burst encounter that a rogue has and it can get deflected fairly often due to the high deflect chance on tanks. By the time the cooldown ends, regen will have restored the same amount of damage that your non deflected LB has dealt. LA doesn't count because this is a scenario where the tank doesn't use his daily either.
We're only talking about a single stat here, not even mentioning the moves that the other class has. Does it sound right that 1 stat can completely negate the best dps encounter from the best single target dps class using the best gear available for dps based purposes? I think not.
David Valtiere, Lvl 70 TR with perfect Lvl 60 gear which I don't want to replace cause nostalgia yo ;_;
Yes I agree with the flipside and why it makes me nervous about what they are doing... If people can no longer get tene enchants prices will go through the roof and only a select few will have them... Which is why I believe if they DONT nerf them it will be a HUGE mistake for the game, you cant have the best enchants no longer attainable and I didnt like how the only way TO get tene is to buy them off the AH or purchase a key to open a box.
It sounds like you didnt know, so im just telling this for anyone else who didnt read feywind notes. They are coming out with a NEW box you can open to replace the nightmare box (which dropped the plague fire enchant and the tene enchant) so I am guess there will be a new enchant they will WANT people to buy via lock boxes.
So I am guessing, since all the complaints on the forums about this, that tene will get a nerf because of this new enchant, AND based on aobve where they cant have it no longer attainable...
I mean that would be as bad as making the ancient weapon set no longer attainable and only T2 could be gotten now... I have a hard time seeing them discontinue an item that is BiS without giving something better or nerfing that item... But yes, there are two sides and I think tene is going to be BiS fora little while and prices will go up.
A smart economist, could gamble on them doing this and selll out now that the market is high...
To your other point, you said " Does it sound right that 1 stat can completely negate the best dps encounter from the best single target dps class using the best gear available for dps based purposes?"
There is no ONE stat that does this... and GOOD TRs with Perf Vorpal who time their lashing blade with LA right, well I am BiS gear and I got crit for 25k the other day and he only had a greater vorpal.
Also like I said, most of the time your regen is what is keeping you alive (like you claim too) and that is only really effective at 50% hp or less. So even if your at 65% Hp (65%*$35,000=22,750HP) a timed LA+GREATER vorp+crit on lashing will 1 shot the rest of my life...
Sent GWfs are getting a pretty hard nerf next patch, they are losing deflection, losing DPS on slam and losing some temp HP that stuck around after unstoppable, Also im not sure what is heppening with unstoppable but they claim the true damage mitigation is lower than what its currently listed at,
All that to say that there i no 1 stat that negates any characters gear, the combination of stacking hp/defense/deflect AND regen CAN counter some damage from a TR if its deflected, but if its not, then its just damage mitigated which if its OUT of unstoppable is something like 44%. When you add the math and there are videos of 60k lashing crits (with perf vorp) do the math of 44% of that and your still WELL within 1 shot capability, or at worst you do a HUGE majority of their HP..
What that ALSO means is that tene enchants are based on CURRENT hp, so even the regen stacking GWF, if they have 50% HP your now talking a MAX damage of 3,885 damage if ALL tenes proc... and they are BiS enchants and they do 3885 damage every 20 seconds.... I say thats pretty UNDERpowered to me... in THAT scenario...
OVERALL: yes the sent gwf regen dlefect defense tene build synergizes VERY well with eachother BUT it is FAR from a hard counter to the DPS of a TR, or even the survivability of a good DC.
You also brought up spawn camping, well... No serious PVPer I know even does GG on a ragular basis, that whole thing kinda faded out really quick and ontop of that, I havnt seen spawn camping in over a month there. Seems like only lower GS players do it now to do 5 man GG runs afterwards for gear..
The geared players WHO could spawn camp just stick to 5v5 premades...
I do agree with the gear thing and the whole "bis" gear BUT I will say that just because its "BiS" for PVE doesnt mean its BiS for pvp...
I know ALOT of games that the requirements for those are completely different. Think of WoW arena for example and how they added "resilience"... Well even the BiS PVE gear attained through the hardest raids, couldnt compete with a good player who had resilience gear, it didnt even require you to raid either to get! Just be on and play X matches a week - which normally took like 1 hour...
Would I prefer the better pvp items to be harder to get? Sure! I would have LOVED it if they made the pvp gear good and not attainable after like 5 pvp matches... I would LOVE for them to make a T3 set and have each piece cost 100k glory...
But also just because MY character synergy works best with blue lvl 45 regen rings, doesnt mean its BiS for every GWF or even everyother person... It just means it works best with my build...
Also think of what I am doing with those rings, sacrificing alot of DPS stats for regen for added survivability... Without tene enchants noone would do that because your damage would be so low... The only reason people would do that without tene is just to be a big body to contest points in pvp but never kill anything...
So its really just a niche build that involved a ton of random pieces that synergize so well...
They are nerfing GFs Stalwarts set so now they BiS setup for them is going to be blue regen stacking too...
TRs seem to remain untouched since they ARE the single target DPS class, the only reason people stack regen on GF/GWF is well... they are tank classes...
I have seen regen TRs but thats onlybecause they have a broken item that gives like 450 regen on each ring... If they didnt have that, people wouldnt do it since there is no real benefit to regen since you lose alot of DPS.
You can actually counter that build by stacking plague fire debuff +RoI on the GWF. it can make his defense go down to negative values and his only defensive mechanic will be deflection or running to get a pot.
Any CW can keep the stacks permanently on him by using conduit of ice. Would take 2~3 people to kill him though but he will melt down pretty quick.
Learn the game before you talk <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>.You sound like you just turned 60 with that non-sense you just said.
I knew about this LONG before it was cool /somewhere around the 5th day of the game when I found all the enchants and gear specs that are for CWs/. Its ALWAYS the best stat since you have armor penetration already ingame, ofc the best known cenarial is armor pen + high crit rate. That can be obtained pretty much easy / Shadow Weaver gives you a great chunk of crit rate and you add armor pen in your offensive slots / but with this build you lose alot of normal damage due to low power which is esential for a CW. There comes the armor/mitigation debuff build which requiers normal value of crit /around 1k/, some armor pen from items and a high base of power for bigger normal damage. There comes High Vizier set that removes armor from your oponent and gives it to you, there comes the PF enchant that removes % of armor each hit and there comes CoI and arcane encounter mitigation with thaum feat tree /which gives 25% mitigation stacked + RoE that gives around 15% more, you do the math/. I knew about this LOOOONG ago and my build is based on those calculations I made with this difference that I have somewhat better survivability based on stacking deflection and sometimes using Shield to negate the inicial burst of dmg. The problem with this build is obtaining PF enchant. Since its dropped from those lockboxes, not everyone can afford it, not everyone have fair rights to obtain it since you get a key from the market and people sell it for ridiculous prices in eighter AH or via trades. I personally have opened over 40 boxes and not even once got a PF enchant or tene enchant, maybe I was just unlucky. And since the average player cant have it, I started looking for alternatives. Bloodthirst and lightning enchants were always a good idea /bloodthirst have a good sustain ability and lightning enchant was kinda buggy and arcs hit the same target more than once and it provides a good portion of stable dmg (15% as perfect)/. You think Im that stupid to not know that?
or they will simply be inferior in top tier PvP matches against the guild that has focused on this regen build so much.
It all boils down to willingness and experience. I know you're obviously talking about my guild, but I wouldn't go on discrediting the PvP video ayroux made just because you "know that type of build".
I can show you a good example how when this build isn't played right it gets obliterated within a minute: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w9pBzI6ifwc (the player im facing in the video has perfect enchants + tenes, I'm using greater enchants + tenes).
Yes it does seem like an easy OP build, but when it comes to high lvl pvp, it pretty much can only handle 1 enemy player, it's a stalemate against TR/GF/DC but it can also be killed by TR / CW if not played right.
About the build in general:
When I was streaming and playing GWF, people always asked to show gear + feats etc', I always replied "If you can't afford tenes, I rather not show you the build, I don't want annoying gwfs running around the map doing no dmg, if you really wanna do this build make sure you have alot of AD".
but then Apex, a streamer, joined our guild and rolled a gwf, he also posted screenshot of the gear + feats on this stream, we saw an up rise of sent gwfs since then. To be honest it was a good thing eventually, in the wrong hands this build is broken, especially in pugs and it needed a serious nerf, and thanks to everyone who copied it and made it popular it now gets the deserved nerf.
So your saying it's only strong if you have the tene's, and then you turn around and say nerf the class? I'm so tired of this ****, how about nerf the tene's instead of every class that can stack hp? which is... every class!
How is it fun to do double the damage of everyone else just because you can afford the 6 mil+ AD for Tene's? Do you really get satisfaction out of winning when it is completely dependent on your gear advantage? That just doesn't make sense to me. That's like watching a UFC match of Brock Lesner VS. some guy they grabbed off the street 2 minutes before the fight, yeah maybe brock will enjoying using him as a punching bag for 2 minutes but then it just gets boring.
Edit: @ erdoken: So you're pretty much saying it's overpowered b/c a TR with great gear can't one shot them? And then you say regen which is working exactly as stated is broken because YOU think it heals for too much. I guess the GWF is ONLY meant to played as DPS huh? Go Away.
Guild Master of <Enemy Team>
We are definitely dominating, and we are always about to win.
So your saying it's only strong if you have the tene's, and then you turn around and say nerf the class? I'm so tired of this ****, how about nerf the tene's instead of every class that can stack hp? which is... every class!
Not sure are you replying to me? why would they nerf tene's up untill now that was their main income
Not sure are you replying to me? why would they nerf tene's up untill now that was their main income
I know they aren't going to nerf them as that is why everyone purchases keys, but they could at least make them max of 2 per character or something and allow free unsocketing to those that have them already. I just can't see the fun in using items that only 1-2% of the game population can aquire to stomp all over those that can't. where is the satisfaction in victory when deep down you know your gear was just vastly superior?
Btw does anyone know if they are still going to be available after the 22nd as the lockboxes will not be? Which means that those that already have them will continue to dominate PvP unless something even more powerful is released...
Edit: To be completely honest I don't personally mind Tene's that much, but it seems like class after class are being called OP and nerfed when the true root cause is Tene's. I just want to see all the classes I play stop becoming weaker and weaker.
What makes the Sent GWF OP? the fact that he trades virtually all damage for survivability just makes him a point holder. A smart team can easily either ignore him, send 1 tanky person to the same point, or just come in with 3 and debuff and prone him to a quick death. The class is not OP people just think all classes should be able to 1v1 all other classes apparently, and don't know how to desl with this build.
Guild Master of <Enemy Team>
We are definitely dominating, and we are always about to win.
Not sure are you replying to me? why would they nerf tene's up untill now that was their main income
Why are they nerfing/redoing Stalwark (sorry if I misspell the set name, I dont play GF) now then? Because 90% of GF use it (that was stated in the notes) and its a T1 set that is years more stronger than any T2/T3 set in the game. Same goes with tenes and their usefulness. Some builds rely on those enchants way too much like sentinels. They actually dont rely only on them but sacrificing all their dmg for survivability and HP brings the need of more dmg => tenes socketed in every offensive slot. That is the broken thing of this build. The amount of burst dmg you get from them every 20 or so seconds.
I dont remember the name of the GWF that presented this build but we knew about it before the buffs of GWFs long ago. Correct me if Im wrong but lots of people rolles GF and GWF after those buffs on them back then. The broken CWs wasnt really a big deal, DCs after the fix on AS dissapeared, TRs were always alot and after the foundation of perma stealth build went high in numbers. Im sure if someone finds a broken build of CWs or DCs everyone will roll one too.
Yes I am one of those people that dont want to spend money on a F2P game but I dont think people that spend hundreds of dolars here are more than those that play it for free. I quitted after the game became more and more expoited by lots of people and I prefer to play it without exploits (yes I did ran shortcuts in CN a few times but never ever managed to get what I wanted)
I knew about this LONG before it was cool /somewhere around the 5th day of the game when I found all the enchants and gear specs that are for CWs/. Its ALWAYS the best stat since you have armor penetration already ingame, ofc the best known cenarial is armor pen + high crit rate. That can be obtained pretty much easy / Shadow Weaver gives you a great chunk of crit rate and you add armor pen in your offensive slots / but with this build you lose alot of normal damage due to low power which is esential for a CW. There comes the armor/mitigation debuff build which requiers normal value of crit /around 1k/, some armor pen from items and a high base of power for bigger normal damage. There comes High Vizier set that removes armor from your oponent and gives it to you, there comes the PF enchant that removes % of armor each hit and there comes CoI and arcane encounter mitigation with thaum feat tree /which gives 25% mitigation stacked + RoE that gives around 15% more, you do the math/. I knew about this LOOOONG ago and my build is based on those calculations I made with this difference that I have somewhat better survivability based on stacking deflection and sometimes using Shield to negate the inicial burst of dmg. The problem with this build is obtaining PF enchant. Since its dropped from those lockboxes, not everyone can afford it, not everyone have fair rights to obtain it since you get a key from the market and people sell it for ridiculous prices in eighter AH or via trades. I personally have opened over 40 boxes and not even once got a PF enchant or tene enchant, maybe I was just unlucky. And since the average player cant have it, I started looking for alternatives. Bloodthirst and lightning enchants were always a good idea /bloodthirst have a good sustain ability and lightning enchant was kinda buggy and arcs hit the same target more than once and it provides a good portion of stable dmg (15% as perfect)/. You think Im that stupid to not know that?
First, thanks for listing and stating the obvious of what CW sets and armor pen can do..Funny thing is you know all these stuff but yet you said there is no counter for the sentinel build.
Second, average player cant obtain a plague fire enchantment? it is like 400k to get the normal version..90k to get the lesser version so i don't know what drugs are you on. Apparently there is ALOT you have no clue about in this game.
Yes I am one of those people that dont want to spend money on a F2P game but I dont think people that spend hundreds of dolars here are more than those that play it for free. I quitted after the game became more and more expoited by lots of people and I prefer to play it without exploits (yes I did ran shortcuts in CN a few times but never ever managed to get what I wanted)
That statment pretty much settles your whining reasons, you did afew CN and didn't get what you wanted and then you gave up due not being able to make enough AD to purchase your desired gear and decided to call whoever got over geared characters a "pay 2 win" players eventhough you can make a full tene character with just farming CN. Believe it or not but i have a Sent GWF with normal tenes and G.plague fire, just from CN farming.
Why are they nerfing/redoing Stalwark (sorry if I misspell the set name, I dont play GF) now then?
Let me just start by saying that it's cryptic, they don't have a good QA depertment, they almost always do ridiculous changes, so bringing any balance change they do is redundant.
Regarding stalwart change, I'm not sure how is it related to tenes? you compare gear that is easily obtainable by doing dungeons to enchants that drop only from lockboxes and are originated from people spending real money.
One last thing, there is a broken DC build and a broken CW build, that's why I said in top pvp level sent gwf isn't a big threat.
What makes the Sent GWF OP? the fact that he trades virtually all damage for survivability just makes him a point holder. A smart team can easily either ignore him, send 1 tanky person to the same point, or just come in with 3 and debuff and prone him to a quick death. The class is not OP people just think all classes should be able to 1v1 all other classes apparently, and don't know how to desl with this build.
This 100%.
Especially the part about people thinking all classes should be able to 1v1 but not knowing HOW to deal with this build. What always makes me laugh is the only people that complain to me about my build, or the enchants (which is alteast 1 per pug game I play) I go gateway their gear and its coming from a 8-9k GS player. What always make me literally laugh outloud is how they show their ignorance saying something like "Ofcourse I cant 1v1 you my GS is 5k lower than yours." I then say mine is only 10.4k and they call BS... Well anyone who knows ANYTHING about these regen builds know they dont even have high GS.
I know GS is meaningless but it just shows the ignorance. People dont know what I am using, what stats I am stacking, HOW tene damage works, HOW unstoppable works, HOW sprint works, HOW my encounters work and then complain because they hit 60 2 weeks ago, know ONLY their own class and cant 1v1 one of the best geared GWFs in the game...
I hate to break it to you bro, but if your 1) Not geared and 2) dont know how to play against my build/class effectively chances are you wont scratch me.
If you ARE geared and ARE competent, youll either KNOW you cant 1v1 me and wait to 2v1 OR send a "hard counter" player to come and deal with me for minutes while neither of us kill eachother.
Like I said before its really only truly "unkillable" and "OP damage" versus PUGs and PART of that is they dont know how it works or how to counter it. The OTHER part is the gear (enchants) but guess what... Im in "BiS" gear... dont you think non-geared players wont stand a chance against any "BiS" geared player?
Just stands to reason that ANY 20mil+AD character is going to ROLL pugs really easily but the balance and skill comes down to how you play against equally geared players...
It is possible but it requiers some luck and a different build and enchants compared to standart builds. As I said multiple times, everything is possible with the right tools and there is no unkillable champ.
1. You were standing on top of AS, thats 60% dmg reduction (if Im wrong Im sorry in advance), without the AS, he took over 50% of your HP with 1 blow.
2. When you were in the AS window, you just toss them away from you till it recharges. "The best GWFs on dragon" will time the duration of AS to its window of 5 second and pop unstoppable at the right time before you try to toss him dont you think? I actually took the time to watch the whole video and see how people react in different situations and I just say its pathetic in the matter of timing spells from the oponents.
3. Your tankiness wount work against me since I have HV set that takes 45% (somewhere around this value with the fully stacked buff from the set bonus) of your armor and gives it to me, my combo is based on cooldown reduction and timing of my spells to take maximum efficiency from every single spell. A combo that takes 4 seconds to finish and 8 seconds of CD inbetween them.More than enough time to the blasts to unload the full potential of the combo on your head during the AS window. Nearly 45% armor reduction and more than 30% armor migitation will be more enough to nearly 1-shoot you with an ice knife if I get lucky and timed right.
You simply are not aware of my build if you think you can kill me 1v1. I suggest you look at my build guide and stats, see my sig. The thought of you 1 shotting me is laughable.
Also, it does not matter when they pop unstoppable, the only time they ever dent my hp is from Tene procs, everything else are mosquito bites. And FYI knocking a GWF back with sunburst is possibly the easiest thing to do on a Cleric.
Guild: Lemonade Stand | Server: Dragon (Original) | PvP Forever | 1og0s * TWITCH * YOUTUBE * MY GUIDES *
You simply are not aware of my build if you think you can kill me 1v1. I suggest you look at my build guide and stats, see my sig. The thought of you 1 shotting me is laughable.
Also, it does not matter when they pop unstoppable, the only time they ever dent my hp is from Tene procs, everything else are mosquito bites. And FYI knocking a GWF back with sunburst is possibly the easiest thing to do on a Cleric.
Feeding the Troll, I like it!
Side note: Is it bad the most exciting thing I am looking forward to in the expansion is just the new weapon chipsets - more things to Xmute my Reaver's edge into because we all know nothing there is an upgrade for most builds...
Comments
We are definitely dominating, and we are always about to win.
Regen build goes against the way that a class is meant to be played, or prevents others from playing their class the way it's meant to be played in case of semi geared tank vs perfect vorp/rank 9 enchant rogue. LB will do around 18k dps non buffed on a semi geared tank, who has around 33k hp with the hp/regen gear + tenes. And the way regen works, it restores more hp per tick once your health goes below 50%. LB is the only real burst encounter that a rogue has and it can get deflected fairly often due to the high deflect chance on tanks. By the time the cooldown ends, regen will have restored the same amount of damage that your non deflected LB has dealt. LA doesn't count because this is a scenario where the tank doesn't use his daily either.
We're only talking about a single stat here, not even mentioning the moves that the other class has. Does it sound right that 1 stat can completely negate the best dps encounter from the best single target dps class using the best gear available for dps based purposes? I think not.
Youve said alot so ill try and address in pieces.
Yes I agree with the flipside and why it makes me nervous about what they are doing... If people can no longer get tene enchants prices will go through the roof and only a select few will have them... Which is why I believe if they DONT nerf them it will be a HUGE mistake for the game, you cant have the best enchants no longer attainable and I didnt like how the only way TO get tene is to buy them off the AH or purchase a key to open a box.
It sounds like you didnt know, so im just telling this for anyone else who didnt read feywind notes. They are coming out with a NEW box you can open to replace the nightmare box (which dropped the plague fire enchant and the tene enchant) so I am guess there will be a new enchant they will WANT people to buy via lock boxes.
So I am guessing, since all the complaints on the forums about this, that tene will get a nerf because of this new enchant, AND based on aobve where they cant have it no longer attainable...
I mean that would be as bad as making the ancient weapon set no longer attainable and only T2 could be gotten now... I have a hard time seeing them discontinue an item that is BiS without giving something better or nerfing that item... But yes, there are two sides and I think tene is going to be BiS fora little while and prices will go up.
A smart economist, could gamble on them doing this and selll out now that the market is high...
To your other point, you said " Does it sound right that 1 stat can completely negate the best dps encounter from the best single target dps class using the best gear available for dps based purposes?"
There is no ONE stat that does this... and GOOD TRs with Perf Vorpal who time their lashing blade with LA right, well I am BiS gear and I got crit for 25k the other day and he only had a greater vorpal.
Also like I said, most of the time your regen is what is keeping you alive (like you claim too) and that is only really effective at 50% hp or less. So even if your at 65% Hp (65%*$35,000=22,750HP) a timed LA+GREATER vorp+crit on lashing will 1 shot the rest of my life...
Sent GWfs are getting a pretty hard nerf next patch, they are losing deflection, losing DPS on slam and losing some temp HP that stuck around after unstoppable, Also im not sure what is heppening with unstoppable but they claim the true damage mitigation is lower than what its currently listed at,
All that to say that there i no 1 stat that negates any characters gear, the combination of stacking hp/defense/deflect AND regen CAN counter some damage from a TR if its deflected, but if its not, then its just damage mitigated which if its OUT of unstoppable is something like 44%. When you add the math and there are videos of 60k lashing crits (with perf vorp) do the math of 44% of that and your still WELL within 1 shot capability, or at worst you do a HUGE majority of their HP..
What that ALSO means is that tene enchants are based on CURRENT hp, so even the regen stacking GWF, if they have 50% HP your now talking a MAX damage of 3,885 damage if ALL tenes proc... and they are BiS enchants and they do 3885 damage every 20 seconds.... I say thats pretty UNDERpowered to me... in THAT scenario...
OVERALL: yes the sent gwf regen dlefect defense tene build synergizes VERY well with eachother BUT it is FAR from a hard counter to the DPS of a TR, or even the survivability of a good DC.
You also brought up spawn camping, well... No serious PVPer I know even does GG on a ragular basis, that whole thing kinda faded out really quick and ontop of that, I havnt seen spawn camping in over a month there. Seems like only lower GS players do it now to do 5 man GG runs afterwards for gear..
The geared players WHO could spawn camp just stick to 5v5 premades...
I do agree with the gear thing and the whole "bis" gear BUT I will say that just because its "BiS" for PVE doesnt mean its BiS for pvp...
I know ALOT of games that the requirements for those are completely different. Think of WoW arena for example and how they added "resilience"... Well even the BiS PVE gear attained through the hardest raids, couldnt compete with a good player who had resilience gear, it didnt even require you to raid either to get! Just be on and play X matches a week - which normally took like 1 hour...
Would I prefer the better pvp items to be harder to get? Sure! I would have LOVED it if they made the pvp gear good and not attainable after like 5 pvp matches... I would LOVE for them to make a T3 set and have each piece cost 100k glory...
But also just because MY character synergy works best with blue lvl 45 regen rings, doesnt mean its BiS for every GWF or even everyother person... It just means it works best with my build...
Also think of what I am doing with those rings, sacrificing alot of DPS stats for regen for added survivability... Without tene enchants noone would do that because your damage would be so low... The only reason people would do that without tene is just to be a big body to contest points in pvp but never kill anything...
So its really just a niche build that involved a ton of random pieces that synergize so well...
They are nerfing GFs Stalwarts set so now they BiS setup for them is going to be blue regen stacking too...
TRs seem to remain untouched since they ARE the single target DPS class, the only reason people stack regen on GF/GWF is well... they are tank classes...
I have seen regen TRs but thats onlybecause they have a broken item that gives like 450 regen on each ring... If they didnt have that, people wouldnt do it since there is no real benefit to regen since you lose alot of DPS.
This.
Spend the same hundreds of dollars in any build, same result.
It all boils down to willingness and experience. I know you're obviously talking about my guild, but I wouldn't go on discrediting the PvP video ayroux made just because you "know that type of build".
I can show you a good example how when this build isn't played right it gets obliterated within a minute:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w9pBzI6ifwc (the player im facing in the video has perfect enchants + tenes, I'm using greater enchants + tenes).
Yes it does seem like an easy OP build, but when it comes to high lvl pvp, it pretty much can only handle 1 enemy player, it's a stalemate against TR/GF/DC but it can also be killed by TR / CW if not played right.
About the build in general:
When I was streaming and playing GWF, people always asked to show gear + feats etc', I always replied "If you can't afford tenes, I rather not show you the build, I don't want annoying gwfs running around the map doing no dmg, if you really wanna do this build make sure you have alot of AD".
but then Apex, a streamer, joined our guild and rolled a gwf, he also posted screenshot of the gear + feats on this stream, we saw an up rise of sent gwfs since then. To be honest it was a good thing eventually, in the wrong hands this build is broken, especially in pugs and it needed a serious nerf, and thanks to everyone who copied it and made it popular it now gets the deserved nerf.
How is it fun to do double the damage of everyone else just because you can afford the 6 mil+ AD for Tene's? Do you really get satisfaction out of winning when it is completely dependent on your gear advantage? That just doesn't make sense to me. That's like watching a UFC match of Brock Lesner VS. some guy they grabbed off the street 2 minutes before the fight, yeah maybe brock will enjoying using him as a punching bag for 2 minutes but then it just gets boring.
Edit: @ erdoken: So you're pretty much saying it's overpowered b/c a TR with great gear can't one shot them? And then you say regen which is working exactly as stated is broken because YOU think it heals for too much. I guess the GWF is ONLY meant to played as DPS huh? Go Away.
We are definitely dominating, and we are always about to win.
Not sure are you replying to me? why would they nerf tene's up untill now that was their main income
I know they aren't going to nerf them as that is why everyone purchases keys, but they could at least make them max of 2 per character or something and allow free unsocketing to those that have them already. I just can't see the fun in using items that only 1-2% of the game population can aquire to stomp all over those that can't. where is the satisfaction in victory when deep down you know your gear was just vastly superior?
Btw does anyone know if they are still going to be available after the 22nd as the lockboxes will not be? Which means that those that already have them will continue to dominate PvP unless something even more powerful is released...
Edit: To be completely honest I don't personally mind Tene's that much, but it seems like class after class are being called OP and nerfed when the true root cause is Tene's. I just want to see all the classes I play stop becoming weaker and weaker.
What makes the Sent GWF OP? the fact that he trades virtually all damage for survivability just makes him a point holder. A smart team can easily either ignore him, send 1 tanky person to the same point, or just come in with 3 and debuff and prone him to a quick death. The class is not OP people just think all classes should be able to 1v1 all other classes apparently, and don't know how to desl with this build.
We are definitely dominating, and we are always about to win.
beats me, we do premades on PTR where everything is equal unless being challenged on live server.
I don't even pug anymore, game is pretty boring
I dont remember the name of the GWF that presented this build but we knew about it before the buffs of GWFs long ago. Correct me if Im wrong but lots of people rolles GF and GWF after those buffs on them back then. The broken CWs wasnt really a big deal, DCs after the fix on AS dissapeared, TRs were always alot and after the foundation of perma stealth build went high in numbers. Im sure if someone finds a broken build of CWs or DCs everyone will roll one too.
Yes I am one of those people that dont want to spend money on a F2P game but I dont think people that spend hundreds of dolars here are more than those that play it for free. I quitted after the game became more and more expoited by lots of people and I prefer to play it without exploits (yes I did ran shortcuts in CN a few times but never ever managed to get what I wanted)
First, thanks for listing and stating the obvious of what CW sets and armor pen can do..Funny thing is you know all these stuff but yet you said there is no counter for the sentinel build.
Second, average player cant obtain a plague fire enchantment? it is like 400k to get the normal version..90k to get the lesser version so i don't know what drugs are you on. Apparently there is ALOT you have no clue about in this game.
That statment pretty much settles your whining reasons, you did afew CN and didn't get what you wanted and then you gave up due not being able to make enough AD to purchase your desired gear and decided to call whoever got over geared characters a "pay 2 win" players eventhough you can make a full tene character with just farming CN. Believe it or not but i have a Sent GWF with normal tenes and G.plague fire, just from CN farming.
Let me just start by saying that it's cryptic, they don't have a good QA depertment, they almost always do ridiculous changes, so bringing any balance change they do is redundant.
Regarding stalwart change, I'm not sure how is it related to tenes? you compare gear that is easily obtainable by doing dungeons to enchants that drop only from lockboxes and are originated from people spending real money.
One last thing, there is a broken DC build and a broken CW build, that's why I said in top pvp level sent gwf isn't a big threat.
This 100%.
Especially the part about people thinking all classes should be able to 1v1 but not knowing HOW to deal with this build. What always makes me laugh is the only people that complain to me about my build, or the enchants (which is alteast 1 per pug game I play) I go gateway their gear and its coming from a 8-9k GS player. What always make me literally laugh outloud is how they show their ignorance saying something like "Ofcourse I cant 1v1 you my GS is 5k lower than yours." I then say mine is only 10.4k and they call BS... Well anyone who knows ANYTHING about these regen builds know they dont even have high GS.
I know GS is meaningless but it just shows the ignorance. People dont know what I am using, what stats I am stacking, HOW tene damage works, HOW unstoppable works, HOW sprint works, HOW my encounters work and then complain because they hit 60 2 weeks ago, know ONLY their own class and cant 1v1 one of the best geared GWFs in the game...
I hate to break it to you bro, but if your 1) Not geared and 2) dont know how to play against my build/class effectively chances are you wont scratch me.
If you ARE geared and ARE competent, youll either KNOW you cant 1v1 me and wait to 2v1 OR send a "hard counter" player to come and deal with me for minutes while neither of us kill eachother.
Like I said before its really only truly "unkillable" and "OP damage" versus PUGs and PART of that is they dont know how it works or how to counter it. The OTHER part is the gear (enchants) but guess what... Im in "BiS" gear... dont you think non-geared players wont stand a chance against any "BiS" geared player?
Just stands to reason that ANY 20mil+AD character is going to ROLL pugs really easily but the balance and skill comes down to how you play against equally geared players...
You simply are not aware of my build if you think you can kill me 1v1. I suggest you look at my build guide and stats, see my sig. The thought of you 1 shotting me is laughable.
Also, it does not matter when they pop unstoppable, the only time they ever dent my hp is from Tene procs, everything else are mosquito bites. And FYI knocking a GWF back with sunburst is possibly the easiest thing to do on a Cleric.
* TWITCH * YOUTUBE * MY GUIDES *
Feeding the Troll, I like it!
Side note: Is it bad the most exciting thing I am looking forward to in the expansion is just the new weapon chipsets - more things to Xmute my Reaver's edge into because we all know nothing there is an upgrade for most builds...
I haven't read every page on this thread so please forgive me :P
* TWITCH * YOUTUBE * MY GUIDES *
Understandable. If you have 15 minutes to kill, go ahead and read and you can tell me, I cant see any other conclusion except. Ultimate Troll.