If you tried this same stuff today, youd get your *** handed to you because the gear level has evolved so much and the player skill has evolved so much more.
PS: I actually tried it, it still works people dont know where it comes from when they get a sudden 30k ice knife on their heads I actually 1v1ed a regen sentinel GWF a few hours ago and after 2m fight when I killed a CW that came to help him, they overrun me 1v3 and I died. The minute I came back, I wiped the floor with the same GWF with a 25k ice knife on his head when he told me I couldnt do more than 5k dmg on him. It will be fun to try you out to see how tough you are but oh wait... I dont have the GS to challange you oh well, better luck next time.
PS: I actually tried it, it still works people dont know where it comes from when they get a sudden 30k ice knife on their heads I actually 1v1ed a regen sentinel GWF a few hours ago and after 2m fight when I killed a CW that came to help him, they overrun me 1v3 and I died. The minute I came back, I wiped the floor with the same GWF with a 25k ice knife on his head when he told me I couldnt do more than 5k dmg on him. It will be fun to try you out to see how tough you are but oh wait... I dont have the GS to challange you oh well, better luck next time.
/peace
Gz, you were lucky with that Ice Knife, first you need to crit, and my guess is that you have around 30-35% Chance to crit, second, that GWF probobly had around 40-50% deflect, third, he was not in unstoppeble. Wich he can really easy be when you start stacking those debuffs on him, The chance of you actually manage all those are probobly around 10-15%. It's pure luck to get those numbers on a fully geared Sent GWF. If you would had all the odds against you. No crit, He deflected, and Were in Unstoppeble that Ice Knife would probobly not do more 3000 dmg on him.
I stilll do not think the build is bad or OP. GWF is my first toon been playing since a couple days before open beta ended. I have absolutely no Tene's no enchants greater than 6 no soul forge and yet I still hold my own. I do not run a full defensive set mainly because gettin the groups for the drops with the huge amount of gwf's vs' the communities common opinion that they are not as desirable in groups. SO I did obviously get my PvP set use 2 piece bonus w/ Valiant its a pretty cool set up.
That being said I never really watched video's or really cared but wow that chain of damage on 1 ibs was pretty juicy. I mean i seriously want to get me a bunch just to lol at how ridiculous the daisy chain is. Yeah i fought a few GWF's that had this build but I being hybrid gave them a huge amount of grief and unless they had the proc's it was more of who messed up or which had a team mate show up first.
Still a good show and definately a solid arguement over echantment's and the need for a re-work.
I'd like to discuss the GWF PvP mechanics, starting from the videos, rather than discussiong about how OP the build is (we already know, and the op wrote it too).
From my limited experience:
Yes, GWFs have unstoppable. But they also have much less mobility than the other classes. I mean, even without stealth, a TR can run faster and dodge. Plus obviously, they have stealth. And CW telepors are much more effective than sprint, and they can cc and push you back. Plus. As the op said, thos moves (teleport and dodge) make the immune to damage, while sprint doesn't. Also: those 2 classes have short animations, while GWF encounters are easy to dodge. It's impossible to land a IBS if you don't stun the opponent first. Takedown moves you towards the opponent a bit, it's true. And flourish have longer range. But both things are still not enough to counter a teleport or a dodge timed right.
So, put this all together. What do we have?
Against a CW you usually eat the damage. A lot of damage and cc. If he push you back, it may take a long time before you actually reach him (talking about 1v1). You can sprint once his encounters are on cooldown. Usually, after the 1st wave of encounters you can go unstoppable also. But it would be pointless (he would teleport). <when you reach him, he will teleport. You know that, so you don't try to takedown on him (it would miss) but keep moving towards the location he teleported to. Then he teleports again. And again. End of teleport. You can attack. But right now your HP can be dropped by 40-50% depending on the opponent. And a big part of his CDs have passed, so soon he will be able to cc you again, and then teleport again. That's where unstoppable comes to balance things for you. You can heal a bit, resist his second wave of encounters and unleash your damage on him. He will teleport once more before your unstoppable ends (and it ends quickly). If he can push you, reaching him can take forever. So unstoppable can also be used to resist the cc and avoid being pushed back. But if he teleports away from your unstoppable, and wait for it to run out before using his encounters, you're done.
A TR can stealth, unleash huge damage on you. Then you go unstoppable. But he dodges, and go back to stealth. You find him and attack him, but again, your animations are so slow he can drink a coffee and dodge again. He can stealth and take some distance, wait for CDs to end, and kill you. When he slips away and stealth, you can try to reach a potion. He will follow you and throw knives while still in stealth mode. Also, TRs have impossible to catch to use if they are in a pinch.
So unstoppable just counters the ranged moves/ more mobility/ stealth or whatever of those classes. DC can heal and a GF can tank with his shiled. A GWF can go unstoppable.
It's all down to how good you are at catching them, and how good they are at damaging you while avoiding your Attacks. You are slow and your Attacks are easy to dodge. Your best weapon is unstoppable. Without it, a GWF is a easy prey. I think anyone can agree on this.
I really don't get why people hate unstoppable so much. I know it hurts people when they see a enemy restoring his health and reducing the damage he takes. But if you think about it a bit, before he can do that you have to take away (and can easily take away) a big part of his HP.
Obviously, when it comes to a sentinel build with very high HP, it's a different story. But it's the build, not unstoppable.
May i ask what regen gear you are using please? I've been scouring the ah, but everything regen seems to trade off a big chunk of crit and/or armor pen.
Please let me know your regen ornaments and gear.
No need for quotes anymore. Lost City's eyes are wide open now. Thank god!b:victory
I never said I hate unstoppable or something. Its easy to dodge and actually a good surviving skill. The thing I dont like is relying on one simple skill. CWs CC has been nerfed from the beginning in PVP /lasting time reduced by 50% in PVP even if you feat/skill it/. Making an unkillable char or buildis just pathetic. This build have one great dissadvantage and its called reduce healing effects/dmg dependingg on enemy health. Sadly bouth of those mechanics are missing in Neverwinter. Here you have pure dmg that can be evaded with huge deflection, def and HP. You got my point already?
PS: My crit chance is 21% due to not stacking crit but power. I dont have 2k+ stats and I use the full effect of High Vizier set due to its absurd OPness and requierment for my build.
May i ask what regen gear you are using please? I've been scouring the ah, but everything regen seems to trade off a big chunk of crit and/or armor pen.
Please let me know your regen ornaments and gear.
Could an experienced GWF help me out here please?
Re quoted to get a good answer.
No need for quotes anymore. Lost City's eyes are wide open now. Thank god!b:victory
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mercurial257Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
I guess you havent played from the start to know how fun it was. I can say to the situation now: people exploited the <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> out of the game to get everything they want to claim they are something in the game. Ok w/e Im not buying it. When I had 9k GS, most of the CWs can barely scratch 8k without using tons of AD or real money. You said you bought your tene enchants when they were 30k on the AH? I dont remember it. I knew those enchants were extremely overpowered when I was in the closed beta weekends when they were presented. Thats why I never used them cause its no fun to use something that will be nerfed in the later run. Why are you using tenes? Why are you using PF and soulforges? Cause everyone use them? Well, I dont go along with the crowd and find other ways to beat down the <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> out of people who think they are better cause they have imba stuff.
I have the mechanics how to beat everything with a CW, I just dont have the funds to do it. I quitted cause the game was exploited too much and Cryptic broke it way too much.
PS: Who said it Im a pew pew CW??? Wasnt those CWs with 7 tenes, SM enfeeble and stuff like that? When everyone thought Shadow Weaver set was godmode, I told them the set is broken and when they fix it, it will be useless they laughed at me collecting High Vizier. I bough my set for 250k AD and it took me over 2 weeks to collect them. Still running around with lesser enchants and an offhand from arena. Green shirt and pants and T1 rings even thow I sold more than 30+ T2 and T2.5 rings in the AH, I never wore them cause I dont need them.
PS2: That 14k ice knife you saw wasnt a crit, it was a normal dmg hit. I respecced once when they give that free one and now my ice knife hits for 20k+ and my dmg increased 2x without my GS moving. Who said it Im a pew pew CW? I rely more on survivability than on DMG thats why I stack deflection not def or HP. Def is useless and HP is something even more useless for a CW.
I can tell you this: after the respec and after so much time, I still pew pew everything I stand against if its not a broken perma invis TR. Other than that, its easy or challangeing. I dont care who you think is good, when you put someone who spend tons of money in the game or exploited it so much against me, I will only laugh and move on. Deal with it!
- I have played from the OB beginning and there was a TON of imbalance, I agree it was fun, and I know exactly how people exploited the dungeons, I was part of it and not ashamed to admit it, because EVERYONE did it so it was a level playing field. In all reality it just escalated the gear acquirement so even though the game is only a few months old, people have the gear as if the game has been out much longer...
I also only have a 10k GS currently on my Sent GWF. I use blues still and I know some people that prefer some green pieces of gear in certain slots... GS doesnt mean anything, so why are you so hung up on it?
Actually lesser tene used to go for 10k but I didnt see the value THAT early on, when they started going up I bought most of them at 25k, anything under 30k was a buy signal for me. It took me a while to rack up tons of lessers-> normals... Just for perspective in my weapon I HAD a regular tene and it was more expensive to un-enchant the item OVER buying a new weapon AND a new regular tene (thats how cheap they were) so I threw it in my bank. I recently remembered I had that and turned around and sold it for 350k AD...
YOu play a CW, tene isnt that great on a CW. If you played a GF or a GWF youd have a VERY hard time being competitive without them. Mainly because of the reasons I mentioned... so its not that "everyone uses them" its that certain classes are almost useless without them... mainly GWF cant kill anything... As you see in the video, I face some non-sent GWFs and I cut through them like a knife through hot butter... People that play PVE spec (DPS spec) on a GWF in pvp are <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> and its basically like vs a TR with no stealth.
Pew Pew CWs dont stack tene actually. Tene is the "utility" spec because CWs dont have high regen gear OR high HP pools. So they go with the High V set for the debuffs and focus on debuff/control in PVP while letting tene do some decent damage, its nowhere near the damage of Shadow Set (which is still very strong).
I use T1 on BOTH my GWF AND my GF so your point? I use lvl 45 BLUE rings and a lvl 58 neck... YOur saying?
So that 14k daily wasnt a crit... again please tell me then how much SKILL it takes to press 1 and blow someone up like that then? Come back to me when its not an autolock and you have to manually keep your cursor/mouse over a target to hit them like an FPS, THEN ill admit it takes skill. Currently though (like you admit MULTIPLE times) your just sitting back and ranging people down while your teammates distract them (which IS your job) but dont act like you single handedly 2v1 or 3v1 while they are focused on trying to kill you. You wouldnt last 30 seconds against me especially me and another player...
I would love to see a fraps of you against good players. My offer still stands, Ill be any amount of AD to you if you xfer your character to the test shard and vs ANY of Lantis characters, or heck ill even bet you cant stand against my character either, all this bragging and nothing to back it up with?
Either pony up, or shut up and we can be done trying to have an epeen measuring contest over the forums... All this is talk and talk is cheap, put the money where your mouth is or lets just let the readers decide for themselves what the verdict here is. No need to blow up this thread with flame.
I am tying to get more people interested in PVP not trying to say who is the best pvper in this game.
2x Titan
2x Scrapper
Blue rings with +200 regen
Titan Off Hand.
I use Reavers Edge for the HP/def/defl but some people use the ice axe for the regen there.
My neck gives something like 119 regen as well.
Obviously, when it comes to a sentinel build with very high HP, it's a different story. But it's the build, not unstoppable.
not quoting everything you said but you are spot on. I have 1v1 some really good CWs and while they cant kill me, they can sure as heck kite me for 2min+
The ONLY thing I have to combat all the CC and dailies is unstoppable because I eat so much of their damage, Ive actually even though about using the crappy "slow" encounter just to combat this but I have learned to time my encounters much more efficient to the point I can actually hit CWs effective now. But it takes alot of skill/placement to do and not to mention timing. Youll also see clips on this vid where I dont (and cant) just pop all my encounters on DC/CW/TRs just because of their dodge mechanics I typicalyl wait until they have use that 2-3 times before I can reliably use IBS or even takedown. By that time, most CWs have used their encounters and are already back off CD again.
Like you said unstoppable requires you to TAKE damage first to use it, The only thing I think that needs tweaking is a small CD on it which would stop Sent GWFs face tanking 3-4 players, because it builds up so fast, but in 1v1s or even 2v1s that wouldnt be affected, thats the only thing I would even consider dropping on Unstoppable, because without it, NON-Sent GWFs cant do anything, heck they are already so weak they almost need a buff to unstoppable to be viable... Thats a balance issue with specs not necessarily unstoppable itself...
I would GLADLY trade sprint for a "roll/blink" on my GWF and have them nerf Unstoppable up the butt. That would be THREE times I could avoid taking damage when timed right, which would then just make GWF the most skill-required class in the game.
Short range / long build up encounters that are easy to dodge - crappy unstoppable - and a dodge mechanics that requires skill.... Want to know why they DONT give us this? Because then it would be impossible TO kill us... With 3 "blinks" thats so much regen ticks and avoidability...
They WANTED GWFs to be a big fat damage sponge who just has to eat it in their face, but they gave us something that compliments that well... The synergy in this build is very good and I agree the tene needs to be tweaked HENCE why I have posted entire threads about it... Why would I want to nerf my own build? I dont see players saying their Ice Knife is too powerful, and most TRs almost committed suicide when they nerfed their 1 shot daily....
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faiteaccompliiMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 2
edited August 2013
Interesting stuff. I am not good enough to kill a GWF yet, maybe one day
I am tying to get more people interested in PVP not trying to say who is the best pvper in this game.
This game is far away from being in a competitive level fo PVP. The classes and the mechanics are too far away from being somewhat balanced. When sentinel gwf are nerfed to the grownd like TRs are, we will talk again. Until then, play your fairytail I have no time to waste on your "imba ****" build. HF!
PS: If you dont know, there are alot of broken things that dont work for CWs. When they are being fixed, Im sure alot of people will start crying again. Enfeeble wasnt nerfed at all. Only those who used it on SM will cry about it, I never did. Some day you will understand. Till then, mele classes are gonna have a hard time against any range. You dont have a range skill? Oh well
I dont see players saying their Ice Knife is too powerful, and most TRs almost committed suicide when they nerfed their 1 shot daily....
I say that ice knife is too powerfull. Specced right, it can kill everything on the right conditions. It needs to be nerfed. I dont like 1-shooting people cause its <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>. But if there is no other alternative, why not? CWs are the main DPSers in game, they need that to increase the dps on everything. Different strats use different items/skills/feats.
I agree that the non-sent builds on GWFs are rather squishy in PvP. Plus, you can go full damage, but with slam nerf you're still going to be outdamaged by rogues (to be honest making GWFs PvE DPS builds the top damage dealers thanks to AoE Attacks, and TRs the best boss killers thanks to the single target damage, would still be a better design for the game).
They decided to make it a half DPS, half tank. Ideally. My guess is that in order to survive long enough in PvP, a DPS build may need to stack HP for defense and life steal to keep him going while dealing damage. Still wouldn't be as tanky as a sentinel ( his defense gets better only if he can hit. Which doesn't happen Always, expecially against TRs and CWs), but that's how it's supposed to be.
Rather than nerfing unstoppable, i would put a cap to the max HP. My impression is that most of the OP of these builds, come from HP. Tenes damage is hp damage. Regen power + Unstoppable gets OP at very high HP.
I would put a cap at 30k HP and a limit to tenes stacking. May be 10% of your HP. Which, at 30k hp, is 3k damage. Still a lot. But not the 7k damage you can reach right now.
Sentinels would still be more tanky thanks to the higher deflection, regeneration (10% regen would still heal for 1,5k per tick) and armor. But may be not unkillable or OP.
Rather than nerfing unstoppable, i would put a cap to the max HP. My impression is that most of the OP of these builds, come from HP. Tenes damage is hp damage. Regen power + Unstoppable gets OP at very high HP.
I would put a cap at 30k HP and a limit to tenes stacking. May be 10% of your HP. Which, at 30k hp, is 3k damage. Still a lot. But not the 7k damage you can reach right now.
Sentinels would still be more tanky thanks to the higher deflection, regeneration (10% regen would still heal for 1,5k per tick) and armor. But may be not unkillable or OP.
Not a good idea and its not because of high HP, its because of regen. Most Sent GWFs who play against good players are typically around half HP anyways, because of regen at that point. I am almost never at max HP.
This would also really break pvp because once you start capping stats like that, whats the point of getting gear..
Honestly my solution I posted about tene fixed the enchant for both PVP and PVE AND reduces stacking...
people who say it was never intended to stack are morons, the DEVs specifically coded it that way, if it wasnt meant to be they would have changed it in closed beta, or open beta, or release, OR when they nerfed the enchant.... what they DIDNT do was fully test the enchant and now I think they realize something needs to happen (atleast I hope)...
Skills have nothing to do with enchants. Especially dailys. Ice Knife is the only DPS daily that CWs have. I would run matches when I wount use ice knife, I dont mind. There are 2 more dailys that I preffer to swap in PVP depending on the situations. If you think that ice knife is the only usable OP spell that CWs have, I dont think so.
Lack of knowladge of the class and spells and feats. GG WP!
Why should I teach you? I thought you played from OB, you should know this.
Honestly my solution I posted about tene fixed the enchant for both PVP and PVE AND reduces stacking...
\
I can suggest something else. Let it stack, redo the effect. From 3% of your max HP to 3% of the targets current HP. that way you will deal with sentinel high HP build and let it stack as much as you want on a timer every 3 seconds.
EDIT: This will bring overpowered dmg for PVE so cap the dmg at 3% of your MAX HP/enchant.
Skills have nothing to do with enchants. Especially dailys. Ice Knife is the only DPS daily that CWs have. I would run matches when I wount use ice knife, I dont mind. There are 2 more dailys that I preffer to swap in PVP depending on the situations. If you think that ice knife is the only usable OP spell that CWs have, I dont think so.
Lack of knowladge of the class and spells and feats. GG WP!
Why should I teach you? I thought you played from OB, you should know this.
I never said ice knife is the only usable OP spell, I merely pointed out that you claim tene is Op so you dont use it, but then your videos are spammed with ice knife crits in which you use to justify you being "pro" and then also admit its op...
I also want to point out and I think its funny that a MAX potential 7 GREATER tene enchants do 7770 damage if they ALL proc and it has a 20 second CD.
Ice Knife crits for 20k +... so its what 3x more damage, or the equiv of 1 minute at MAX procs at MAX damage (only happens at 100% HP) = 1 IK crit?
And you claim Tene is OP and dont use it, and flame me for using them, but then seem justified and "skilled" using your IK crits?
I can suggest something else. Let it stack, redo the effect. From 3% of your max HP to 3% of the targets current HP. that way you will deal with sentinel high HP build and let it stack as much as you want on a timer every 3 seconds.
EDIT: This will bring overpowered dmg for PVE so cap the dmg at 3% of your MAX HP/enchant.
Too complicated...
its pretty simple to make it so only 1 can proc at a time, then bring the CD back down to 8 seconds and then nerf the actual damage of 1 enchant to 2% max, but allow them to hit multiple targets...
This again reduces stacking effectiveness, reduces the burst single target damage a TON, but buffs the damage in PVE quite a bit. I think this would bring tene inline as an enchant.
This game is far away from being in a competitive level fo PVP. The classes and the mechanics are too far away from being somewhat balanced.
I said I wantedto get more ppl to play, not that it is the best pvp game ever... You also just described EVERY other MMO out there... There will ALWAYS be imbalance, Blizzard has been hearing about pvp imbalance since 2005 when WoW was launched and will continue to hear about it every day...
I have no time to waste on your "imba ****" build. HF! ... Till then, mele classes are gonna have a hard time against any range. You dont have a range skill? Oh well
Isnt that also kinda of contradictory?
Seems like your full of contradictory saying and bragging about how good you are then not wanting to back that up at all... I asked to you challenge Lantiss who has a CW as well you could play, or a TR you could play, OR a GWF like min you could play and prove your "skill"
Since its obvious your all talk, ill let you have the last word next and ill be done
Whos Lantiss and why I never heard of him. Oh wait... isnt that the guy who exploited the <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> out of the game? Nvm... I dont deal with exploiters. Other than that, no way to play 1v1 against him. Maybe in the future, but not now. I take the challange when there is actuallly a way to 1v1 someone.
Your telling me you never did a "shortcut" run... or a skip... or a preclear... yeah right....
Get off your high horse and stop avoiding facing the facts... You can copy your character over to the test shard so no matter what server you are on, you can play with others. Then I can meet you, or if he is willing, id give him the AD once he wipes the floor with you on eny of his characters.
The reason I threw him in here is that I know hes a good player and he has a CW/TR as well so you cna pick your poison...
You say my build is OP, well then put your money where your mouth is and 1v1 a different player whose skilled too, see how you measure up... or dont....
Read my post again. If you are butthurt that much, its not my problem.
Read my post again.
EDIT: If you wanna pvp me, some conditions have to be made. No using of pots of any kind, gear of any kind except weapons (MH and OH) and no use of dailys. Lets see how eagered you will be to fight me in those conditions. I dont mind those things, do you? Show me your skill by using your brain not your items.
EDIT 2: I did CN twice using the wall, then I stopped doing it cause its <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> to skip contend and the fact that everyone were looking for "over 10k GS" just makes me sad how stupid people are. I tried spider queen a lot of times, most of them failed cause of incompetent people but I had a few clear kills without using any exploits or cheats. Never did SP cause its exploited as fk. Taking the shortcut in pirate king doesnt ruin the instance at all. Took me around 4mins to clear the skipped contend, no big of a deal.
I preffer to play a game by the rules not using terrain or not finished mechanics or bugged skills to finish an instance. All I got from a legit run on CN was an offhand and a MH for GF which I donated to the guild I was in even thow it was worth a few mil AD. Your point?
PS: I never pre cleared a dungeon cause I find it abusive. Believe it or not, its true.
Whos Lantiss and why I never heard of him. Oh wait... isnt that the guy who exploited the <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> out of the game? Nvm... I dont deal with exploiters. Other than that, no way to play 1v1 against him. Maybe in the future, but not now. I take the challange when there is actuallly a way to 1v1 someone.
End of story.
I guess I'm a bad exploiter since I only have greater enchants, never once had enough AD to make perfect.
On topic, I don't see any reason for you to bash on someone who made pvp highlight movie and shared it on the forums, you are trying really hard to justify your hate for gear differences in F2P game, get over it.
The bashing started after I expressed my oppenion on the video. If you cant take any criticism, dont post your self-made videos here. Not worth commenting the video in youtube. People enjoy watching real action not 3 people hitting someone and cant kill him for 2 mins.
Lantis, its being said in multiple threads how much you and your guild exploited. No need to make yourself cool here. Move along. You are not interesting anymore.
The bashing started after I expressed my oppenion on the video. If you cant take any criticism, dont post your self-made videos here. Not worth commenting the video in youtube. People enjoy watching real action not 3 people hitting someone and cant kill him for 2 mins.
Lantis, its being said in multiple threads how much you and your guild exploited. No need to make yourself cool here. Move along. You are not interesting anymore.
I'm sure anyone who posts a video expects some sort of criticism, but coming from a low skilled CW like yourself, I completely understand why he's refusing to accept it, you see, you are so confident you know everything there is to know about this game that you allow yourself to trash talk freely, when you dont even play the game. I unlike you, have proved my worth and took any challenge thrown my way, its all documented through streams, I've seen builds evolve and know that there is fair amount of balance involved when both sides are equally geared and equally skilled.
and who are you? can't seem to remember you, I guess it's not even worth finding out, you're just another sheep who throws the word "exploit" to defend themselves.
It doesnt matter who I am. I played against you a few times and I can say you are nothing special like your friends from Lemonade Stand. So called No1 in dragon shard being beaten up by another group of people. Ok I get it Changeing the name of your guild multiple times just to hide yourselves. Funny. Not worth even answering you. Your ego is nothing when you use real money to get early advantage on other players.
I guess I have nothing to do here anymore. Seems trolling overwhelms this thread too much. Cya ingame.
Comments
PS: I actually tried it, it still works
/peace
Gz, you were lucky with that Ice Knife, first you need to crit, and my guess is that you have around 30-35% Chance to crit, second, that GWF probobly had around 40-50% deflect, third, he was not in unstoppeble. Wich he can really easy be when you start stacking those debuffs on him, The chance of you actually manage all those are probobly around 10-15%. It's pure luck to get those numbers on a fully geared Sent GWF. If you would had all the odds against you. No crit, He deflected, and Were in Unstoppeble that Ice Knife would probobly not do more 3000 dmg on him.
I stilll do not think the build is bad or OP. GWF is my first toon been playing since a couple days before open beta ended. I have absolutely no Tene's no enchants greater than 6 no soul forge and yet I still hold my own. I do not run a full defensive set mainly because gettin the groups for the drops with the huge amount of gwf's vs' the communities common opinion that they are not as desirable in groups. SO I did obviously get my PvP set use 2 piece bonus w/ Valiant its a pretty cool set up.
That being said I never really watched video's or really cared but wow that chain of damage on 1 ibs was pretty juicy. I mean i seriously want to get me a bunch just to lol at how ridiculous the daisy chain is. Yeah i fought a few GWF's that had this build but I being hybrid gave them a huge amount of grief and unless they had the proc's it was more of who messed up or which had a team mate show up first.
Still a good show and definately a solid arguement over echantment's and the need for a re-work.
From my limited experience:
Yes, GWFs have unstoppable. But they also have much less mobility than the other classes. I mean, even without stealth, a TR can run faster and dodge. Plus obviously, they have stealth. And CW telepors are much more effective than sprint, and they can cc and push you back. Plus. As the op said, thos moves (teleport and dodge) make the immune to damage, while sprint doesn't. Also: those 2 classes have short animations, while GWF encounters are easy to dodge. It's impossible to land a IBS if you don't stun the opponent first. Takedown moves you towards the opponent a bit, it's true. And flourish have longer range. But both things are still not enough to counter a teleport or a dodge timed right.
So, put this all together. What do we have?
Against a CW you usually eat the damage. A lot of damage and cc. If he push you back, it may take a long time before you actually reach him (talking about 1v1). You can sprint once his encounters are on cooldown. Usually, after the 1st wave of encounters you can go unstoppable also. But it would be pointless (he would teleport). <when you reach him, he will teleport. You know that, so you don't try to takedown on him (it would miss) but keep moving towards the location he teleported to. Then he teleports again. And again. End of teleport. You can attack. But right now your HP can be dropped by 40-50% depending on the opponent. And a big part of his CDs have passed, so soon he will be able to cc you again, and then teleport again. That's where unstoppable comes to balance things for you. You can heal a bit, resist his second wave of encounters and unleash your damage on him. He will teleport once more before your unstoppable ends (and it ends quickly). If he can push you, reaching him can take forever. So unstoppable can also be used to resist the cc and avoid being pushed back. But if he teleports away from your unstoppable, and wait for it to run out before using his encounters, you're done.
A TR can stealth, unleash huge damage on you. Then you go unstoppable. But he dodges, and go back to stealth. You find him and attack him, but again, your animations are so slow he can drink a coffee and dodge again. He can stealth and take some distance, wait for CDs to end, and kill you. When he slips away and stealth, you can try to reach a potion. He will follow you and throw knives while still in stealth mode. Also, TRs have impossible to catch to use if they are in a pinch.
So unstoppable just counters the ranged moves/ more mobility/ stealth or whatever of those classes. DC can heal and a GF can tank with his shiled. A GWF can go unstoppable.
It's all down to how good you are at catching them, and how good they are at damaging you while avoiding your Attacks. You are slow and your Attacks are easy to dodge. Your best weapon is unstoppable. Without it, a GWF is a easy prey. I think anyone can agree on this.
I really don't get why people hate unstoppable so much. I know it hurts people when they see a enemy restoring his health and reducing the damage he takes. But if you think about it a bit, before he can do that you have to take away (and can easily take away) a big part of his HP.
Obviously, when it comes to a sentinel build with very high HP, it's a different story. But it's the build, not unstoppable.
Please let me know your regen ornaments and gear.
PS: My crit chance is 21% due to not stacking crit but power. I dont have 2k+ stats and I use the full effect of High Vizier set due to its absurd OPness and requierment for my build.
Could an experienced GWF help me out here please?
Re quoted to get a good answer.
Greater rings of health plus and combination of titan/imposing scrapper gear. Neck/rings are blue so just filter them in the AH
- I have played from the OB beginning and there was a TON of imbalance, I agree it was fun, and I know exactly how people exploited the dungeons, I was part of it and not ashamed to admit it, because EVERYONE did it so it was a level playing field. In all reality it just escalated the gear acquirement so even though the game is only a few months old, people have the gear as if the game has been out much longer...
I also only have a 10k GS currently on my Sent GWF. I use blues still and I know some people that prefer some green pieces of gear in certain slots... GS doesnt mean anything, so why are you so hung up on it?
Actually lesser tene used to go for 10k but I didnt see the value THAT early on, when they started going up I bought most of them at 25k, anything under 30k was a buy signal for me. It took me a while to rack up tons of lessers-> normals... Just for perspective in my weapon I HAD a regular tene and it was more expensive to un-enchant the item OVER buying a new weapon AND a new regular tene (thats how cheap they were) so I threw it in my bank. I recently remembered I had that and turned around and sold it for 350k AD...
YOu play a CW, tene isnt that great on a CW. If you played a GF or a GWF youd have a VERY hard time being competitive without them. Mainly because of the reasons I mentioned... so its not that "everyone uses them" its that certain classes are almost useless without them... mainly GWF cant kill anything... As you see in the video, I face some non-sent GWFs and I cut through them like a knife through hot butter... People that play PVE spec (DPS spec) on a GWF in pvp are <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> and its basically like vs a TR with no stealth.
Pew Pew CWs dont stack tene actually. Tene is the "utility" spec because CWs dont have high regen gear OR high HP pools. So they go with the High V set for the debuffs and focus on debuff/control in PVP while letting tene do some decent damage, its nowhere near the damage of Shadow Set (which is still very strong).
I use T1 on BOTH my GWF AND my GF so your point? I use lvl 45 BLUE rings and a lvl 58 neck... YOur saying?
So that 14k daily wasnt a crit... again please tell me then how much SKILL it takes to press 1 and blow someone up like that then? Come back to me when its not an autolock and you have to manually keep your cursor/mouse over a target to hit them like an FPS, THEN ill admit it takes skill. Currently though (like you admit MULTIPLE times) your just sitting back and ranging people down while your teammates distract them (which IS your job) but dont act like you single handedly 2v1 or 3v1 while they are focused on trying to kill you. You wouldnt last 30 seconds against me especially me and another player...
I would love to see a fraps of you against good players. My offer still stands, Ill be any amount of AD to you if you xfer your character to the test shard and vs ANY of Lantis characters, or heck ill even bet you cant stand against my character either, all this bragging and nothing to back it up with?
Either pony up, or shut up and we can be done trying to have an epeen measuring contest over the forums... All this is talk and talk is cheap, put the money where your mouth is or lets just let the readers decide for themselves what the verdict here is. No need to blow up this thread with flame.
I am tying to get more people interested in PVP not trying to say who is the best pvper in this game.
2x Titan
2x Scrapper
Blue rings with +200 regen
Titan Off Hand.
I use Reavers Edge for the HP/def/defl but some people use the ice axe for the regen there.
My neck gives something like 119 regen as well.
not quoting everything you said but you are spot on. I have 1v1 some really good CWs and while they cant kill me, they can sure as heck kite me for 2min+
The ONLY thing I have to combat all the CC and dailies is unstoppable because I eat so much of their damage, Ive actually even though about using the crappy "slow" encounter just to combat this but I have learned to time my encounters much more efficient to the point I can actually hit CWs effective now. But it takes alot of skill/placement to do and not to mention timing. Youll also see clips on this vid where I dont (and cant) just pop all my encounters on DC/CW/TRs just because of their dodge mechanics I typicalyl wait until they have use that 2-3 times before I can reliably use IBS or even takedown. By that time, most CWs have used their encounters and are already back off CD again.
Like you said unstoppable requires you to TAKE damage first to use it, The only thing I think that needs tweaking is a small CD on it which would stop Sent GWFs face tanking 3-4 players, because it builds up so fast, but in 1v1s or even 2v1s that wouldnt be affected, thats the only thing I would even consider dropping on Unstoppable, because without it, NON-Sent GWFs cant do anything, heck they are already so weak they almost need a buff to unstoppable to be viable... Thats a balance issue with specs not necessarily unstoppable itself...
I would GLADLY trade sprint for a "roll/blink" on my GWF and have them nerf Unstoppable up the butt. That would be THREE times I could avoid taking damage when timed right, which would then just make GWF the most skill-required class in the game.
Short range / long build up encounters that are easy to dodge - crappy unstoppable - and a dodge mechanics that requires skill.... Want to know why they DONT give us this? Because then it would be impossible TO kill us... With 3 "blinks" thats so much regen ticks and avoidability...
They WANTED GWFs to be a big fat damage sponge who just has to eat it in their face, but they gave us something that compliments that well... The synergy in this build is very good and I agree the tene needs to be tweaked HENCE why I have posted entire threads about it... Why would I want to nerf my own build? I dont see players saying their Ice Knife is too powerful, and most TRs almost committed suicide when they nerfed their 1 shot daily....
PS: If you dont know, there are alot of broken things that dont work for CWs. When they are being fixed, Im sure alot of people will start crying again. Enfeeble wasnt nerfed at all. Only those who used it on SM will cry about it, I never did. Some day you will understand. Till then, mele classes are gonna have a hard time against any range. You dont have a range skill? Oh well
They decided to make it a half DPS, half tank. Ideally. My guess is that in order to survive long enough in PvP, a DPS build may need to stack HP for defense and life steal to keep him going while dealing damage. Still wouldn't be as tanky as a sentinel ( his defense gets better only if he can hit. Which doesn't happen Always, expecially against TRs and CWs), but that's how it's supposed to be.
Rather than nerfing unstoppable, i would put a cap to the max HP. My impression is that most of the OP of these builds, come from HP. Tenes damage is hp damage. Regen power + Unstoppable gets OP at very high HP.
I would put a cap at 30k HP and a limit to tenes stacking. May be 10% of your HP. Which, at 30k hp, is 3k damage. Still a lot. But not the 7k damage you can reach right now.
Sentinels would still be more tanky thanks to the higher deflection, regeneration (10% regen would still heal for 1,5k per tick) and armor. But may be not unkillable or OP.
Your logic seems contradictory a little....
Not a good idea and its not because of high HP, its because of regen. Most Sent GWFs who play against good players are typically around half HP anyways, because of regen at that point. I am almost never at max HP.
This would also really break pvp because once you start capping stats like that, whats the point of getting gear..
Honestly my solution I posted about tene fixed the enchant for both PVP and PVE AND reduces stacking...
people who say it was never intended to stack are morons, the DEVs specifically coded it that way, if it wasnt meant to be they would have changed it in closed beta, or open beta, or release, OR when they nerfed the enchant.... what they DIDNT do was fully test the enchant and now I think they realize something needs to happen (atleast I hope)...
Lack of knowladge of the class and spells and feats. GG WP!
Why should I teach you? I thought you played from OB, you should know this.
EDIT: This will bring overpowered dmg for PVE so cap the dmg at 3% of your MAX HP/enchant.
I never said ice knife is the only usable OP spell, I merely pointed out that you claim tene is Op so you dont use it, but then your videos are spammed with ice knife crits in which you use to justify you being "pro" and then also admit its op...
I also want to point out and I think its funny that a MAX potential 7 GREATER tene enchants do 7770 damage if they ALL proc and it has a 20 second CD.
Ice Knife crits for 20k +... so its what 3x more damage, or the equiv of 1 minute at MAX procs at MAX damage (only happens at 100% HP) = 1 IK crit?
And you claim Tene is OP and dont use it, and flame me for using them, but then seem justified and "skilled" using your IK crits?
Just seems really inconsistent man...
Too complicated...
its pretty simple to make it so only 1 can proc at a time, then bring the CD back down to 8 seconds and then nerf the actual damage of 1 enchant to 2% max, but allow them to hit multiple targets...
This again reduces stacking effectiveness, reduces the burst single target damage a TON, but buffs the damage in PVE quite a bit. I think this would bring tene inline as an enchant.
I said I wantedto get more ppl to play, not that it is the best pvp game ever... You also just described EVERY other MMO out there... There will ALWAYS be imbalance, Blizzard has been hearing about pvp imbalance since 2005 when WoW was launched and will continue to hear about it every day...
Isnt that also kinda of contradictory?
Seems like your full of contradictory saying and bragging about how good you are then not wanting to back that up at all... I asked to you challenge Lantiss who has a CW as well you could play, or a TR you could play, OR a GWF like min you could play and prove your "skill"
Since its obvious your all talk, ill let you have the last word next and ill be done
End of story.
Get off your high horse and stop avoiding facing the facts... You can copy your character over to the test shard so no matter what server you are on, you can play with others. Then I can meet you, or if he is willing, id give him the AD once he wipes the floor with you on eny of his characters.
The reason I threw him in here is that I know hes a good player and he has a CW/TR as well so you cna pick your poison...
You say my build is OP, well then put your money where your mouth is and 1v1 a different player whose skilled too, see how you measure up... or dont....
Read my post again.
EDIT: If you wanna pvp me, some conditions have to be made. No using of pots of any kind, gear of any kind except weapons (MH and OH) and no use of dailys. Lets see how eagered you will be to fight me in those conditions. I dont mind those things, do you? Show me your skill by using your brain not your items.
EDIT 2: I did CN twice using the wall, then I stopped doing it cause its <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> to skip contend and the fact that everyone were looking for "over 10k GS" just makes me sad how stupid people are. I tried spider queen a lot of times, most of them failed cause of incompetent people but I had a few clear kills without using any exploits or cheats. Never did SP cause its exploited as fk. Taking the shortcut in pirate king doesnt ruin the instance at all. Took me around 4mins to clear the skipped contend, no big of a deal.
I preffer to play a game by the rules not using terrain or not finished mechanics or bugged skills to finish an instance. All I got from a legit run on CN was an offhand and a MH for GF which I donated to the guild I was in even thow it was worth a few mil AD. Your point?
PS: I never pre cleared a dungeon cause I find it abusive. Believe it or not, its true.
I guess I'm a bad exploiter since I only have greater enchants, never once had enough AD to make perfect.
On topic, I don't see any reason for you to bash on someone who made pvp highlight movie and shared it on the forums, you are trying really hard to justify your hate for gear differences in F2P game, get over it.
Lantis, its being said in multiple threads how much you and your guild exploited. No need to make yourself cool here. Move along. You are not interesting anymore.
I'm sure anyone who posts a video expects some sort of criticism, but coming from a low skilled CW like yourself, I completely understand why he's refusing to accept it, you see, you are so confident you know everything there is to know about this game that you allow yourself to trash talk freely, when you dont even play the game. I unlike you, have proved my worth and took any challenge thrown my way, its all documented through streams, I've seen builds evolve and know that there is fair amount of balance involved when both sides are equally geared and equally skilled.
and who are you? can't seem to remember you, I guess it's not even worth finding out, you're just another sheep who throws the word "exploit" to defend themselves.
I guess I have nothing to do here anymore. Seems trolling overwhelms this thread too much. Cya ingame.
Does this mean challenge accepted? I have a feeling it doesnt....
What if we raise the stakes then and loser DELETES their account? Best of 5?