The problem is not that they are fixing it. The problem is that it sounds like they are doing it retroactively so that it breaks currently invested-in gear. Make all new stalwart the "fixed" version. But when you break something people have spent a great deal of time/money to acquire/update/personalize you're going to <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> them off. And in this case, it is going to be a LOT of pissed off people. If the old version is still just "way too powerful" then tone down the buff, but leave it largely unchanged. People will quit over this change. Don't let it go live as is.
Agree with this. Grandfather the existing sets like you did with the "Antiquated Knight Captain's" set when it was broken. Either that or slightly debuff Stalwarts and make it the T2 and Grand Regents the T1.
i only have a GF and if i do not get all the AD invested in the set i certanly will quit,b ecause this change really makes my only character useless, cryptic know that i am a supporter and yeah they will lose me, i do not care to much about the change in the set stats i am fine with that, yes the set was OP and probably should be a t2 set, however i already invested money in this and all that will go waste since will be like i intended to invest in that crappy set when it was not like that, yes i can move to timeless but i will need to look for new rings belts in order to be of some usage in the game, this change as you are thinkikng on doing it should not go live, you will probably lose all GF, since tanks will not generate enough threat to hold agro, and the timeless ones are not better tank options.
Everything works out in the end . If it hasn't worked out yet, it isn't the end...
i only have a GF and if i do not get all the AD invested in the set i certanly will quit,b ecause this change really makes my only character useless, cryptic know that i am a supporter and yeah they will lose me, i do not care to much about the change in the set stats i am fine with that, yes the set was OP and probably should be a t2 set, however i already invested money in this and all that will go waste since will be like i intended to invest in that crappy set when it was not like that, yes i can move to timeless but i will need to look for new rings belts in order to be of some usage in the game, this change as you are thinkikng on doing it should not go live, you will probably lose all GF, since tanks will not generate enough threat to hold agro, and the timeless ones are not better tank options.
I have tanked all existing content in this game with timeless its not hard
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sirjestoMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 176Bounty Hunter
I have tanked all existing content in this game with timeless its not hard
As he said he can move to Timeless, but the main issue is buying/farming it, unslotting the armor enchants, new enchants, likely different belt ammy and rings now for new spec etc...not to mention the cost of transmute, dyes etc. if one has a look they like... Lots of $$$$ because of this.
As we get a free respec token with the massive classes balancing with GG and next for FoF, we should get such a compensation like a cancelling of the unslotting taxe for all Stalwart bulwark set pieces but i have no idea of what we can get about dyes and transmutation.
Top tip for passing the time : Read a book, write a book or book a holiday for your book !
Honestly I think the Stalwart Bulwark Set was way overpowered and needed a hefty change.
The Stalwart Bulwak is a defensive set. If you look at the actual sets Guardian Fighters can obtain it is clear that it was intended to be the T1 version of the Grand Regent Set yet the four set bonus far exceeded the four set bonus of the Grand Regent. It should never of been both the top defensive and offensive set with a four piece set better than the Tier 2.
I think this was needed but not nearly to the extent it was done. Getting even two stacks of Stalwart Bulwark would bring it in line with my Grand Regent Bonus (5K Defense only grants 40 Bonus Damage for me) but such a bonus should not be limited to one attack. It should be a passive stack which generates and degenerates over time after blocking attacks. Even if you do manage to get to 10 stacks (easily possible) it is less than useful if it wears off after a single strike.
If such a degrading nature was built into the set it would need to give less bonus damage, perhaps +10 per stack, depending on how fast the benefit degraded but no matter what this current change, while needed, should not go into effect as a single hit or miss set-up.
I agree stalwart needed nerf. Thats not the issue. The issue is my lvl 8 enchantments and dye packs and transmute costs....... The issue is the millions of AD ive put into the set. There is no way around it. If this change goes through and stalwart users are not permitted to remove there enchantments free of charge its simply stealing time and money from paying customers.
I agree stalwart needed nerf. Thats not the issue. The issue is my lvl 8 enchantments and dye packs and transmute costs....... The issue is the millions of AD ive put into the set. There is no way around it. If this change goes through and stalwart users are not permitted to remove there enchantments free of charge its simply stealing time and money from paying customers.
Removing enchantments for free is imo a legitimate request, but you can't ask cryptic to live with your choices. I'm going to play the devil's advocate, but if you bought your gear with ADs and transmuted it's not their fault.
IMO they should just nerf the set and not "rework" it.
As I've made several posts about this in all of the threads about the change. It is a very simple fix: Change the % gained per stack from 5% down to 2%. I originally said 3% but 15% is still a lot of power gained when you have 30k+ HP. So 10% gives you around 3000 power or 120 weapon damage.
Because you can get gear from bosses and chests. And you don't need to transmute gear to play the game.
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dsolzMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited August 2013
I am done with the game. I am moving on to other greater and better game out there with developers who really know what they are doing. All these balance for pvp is stupid. Pve is what this game is at right now the pvp is far from great ... not because of items or class balance but because of the nature of the pvp mechanism currently implemented is down right boring and the lack of interesting maps.
Because you can get gear from bosses and chests. And you don't need to transmute gear to play the game.
yeah but they put those options( trasmute, dyes) in game for players to use them on gear. so now its the players fault for using an option placed by the developers?
I think switching to Timeless might not be as big a downgrade as some expect it to be (in fact in certain situation it already was superior to the Stalwart). But with the decreased defense and deflection there's nothing hybrid about the DPS build any longer. I still fully expect it to be more viable in PVE compared to a tank build though.
But as others have noted: DDs are already running with 3CW TR DC and with the current nerfs to AP regen, GFs will be completely benched. That's kinda annoying for a player like me, who is running the GF since day one and didn't bother to look into other classes at all.
Some testing on the preview shard confirms this. I think what you wanna do now on a DPS build is to ignore CON, Half-Orc i.e. lets you start off with 15-18-15 or 16-16-16 even. Racial also gives you +5% crit severity, which is a nice sidekick to Timeless. With the Ancient set you need a single Azure to get to the 3.5k def. Since HP doesn't contribute to the DPS any longer, you can bolster your deflection with the other two defense slots.
It should never of been both the top defensive and offensive set with a four piece set better than the Tier 2.
Then why was it? Why did the developers make such a serious error in judgment when designing the set, and then assigning it to a lower tier? That's the real problem here.
They are going to have to display better judgment in future, in designing set abilities and assigning them to a tier where their power is similar to other sets in that tier.
With the cost of removing enchantments from sets changed radically from what they were before so high, along with the cost of other optional things such as transmuting and adding dyes to equipment.. all set at a cost to generate revenue for the company... those in charge of making these sets must make responsible decisions in their design and designation, or customers end out losing a great deal of their monetary investment in the game, and may begin to believe nothing is worth working for as it can't be relied upon to stay reasonably close to what it was when first obtained.
If the developers don't buckle down and get their design process straight, so that players can hope for some stability for their achievements, they may end out losing the confidence of the player base and could end out limiting the potential of their own game.
I hope there is improvement in the future on these issues, for the sake of what is quite a fun game.
this has ruined me for GF. the amount of time i spent to try and get enough ADs to get the helmet and then ***** slap me and all the other GFs is ridiculous. sure it was t1 and it may have needed a "tweak" but they always have to cross the line by 100,000 kilometers.
if the changes go through to live, someone can have all of my <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> because ill be off -_-
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ambisinisterrMember, Neverwinter ModeratorPosts: 10,462Community Moderator
I'm sure you'll back out again just like you did with the TR nerf from all of the QQs.
A simple fix would be to limit the STAL Set to 3 Stacks instead of 5.
This means 15% of a players max health vs. 25%. On my build of 38,000 HP that's 5700 Power bonus or 228 Weapon Damage.
That's still stupidly overpowered compared to Grand Regent. Grand Regent, grants players 521 Bonus Power based on the set alone. Stacking Defense you might be lucky, if you really pushed defense, to reach 7K Defense and that would be 1400 bonus power.
I would say a true minimum for Guardian Fighters would be 22K HP or so. That means a single stack would be 1,200 bonus power. A build which truly stacks HP such as yours builds 1900 per stack. It would still make the set far, far superior than Grand Regent which is the Tier 2 Equivalent.
Sure perhaps the Grand Regent could be buffed...but it can't be buffed simply to be on par with a Tier 1 set effect. Especially not when it would need at around 2400 bonus power in order for the effects to be even closely comparable (33% of defense to power)
Yeah I think you guys should be compensated in some way...
But the stalwark set simply granted too much for the effect.
P.S. Before you complain about the bonus damage do check how much of a difference that makes. 800 Power (My Grand Regent Bonus) only gave me 40 bonus damage and that bonus only goes down in scale as I stack power. In that case it would only require two stacks to have a better benefit than Grand Regent but the major issue with this proposed change is that it is a one attack, 100% drain bonus whether you hit or or miss.
The bonus is actually exceptional. Probably better than before but would never be used effectively and especially in PvP would be avoided too easily.
swap regent and stalwart bulwark then... rather than having all our time/ad/real money go to waste.
No set needs a bonus that powerful end of discussion you can chose 3 T2 armor set's Build on your play style if you DPS timeless if you wanna tank with decent dps Grand Regent if you wanna support High generals. One armor set should not be able to get you all of that with out any cons at all Let alone a lowly t1 armor set armor that's suppose to be a lesser version to its t2 counter parts
No set needs a bonus that powerful end of discussion you can chose 3 T2 armor set's Build on your play style if you DPS timeless if you wanna tank with decent dps Grand Regent if you wanna support High generals. One armor set should not be able to get you all of that with out any cons at all Let alone a lowly t1 armor set armor that's suppose to be a lesser version to its t2 counter parts
lol then nerf it dont change the whole mechanics that'll make all the investment on that set a waste.
lol then nerf it dont change the whole mechanics that'll make all the investment on that set a waste.
Even if you nerf the stack's and take two even 3 away its still better then a t2 set. If you nerf the stack by 2 and % to 2 or 3 people will cry about it and say they were cheated out of AD. The stalwarts nerf is a lose/lose situation even if they didn't change the effect and nerfed it to be less powerful then a T2 set people would cry
people will always cry no matter what you do. but this move is just really torching the people who uses this set. if you reduce the stack or the power % at least then you can say "it was too powerful to begin with you should have expected the nerf" but as of right now it just makes people who invested on the set feel cheated from one of the BiS set to the worse set available.
Changes to the most popular GF Set? Ok, I can understand the changes. But with the upcoming changes to Dungeon Delve-chests, and the loot being BoP, it will be hard to get those pieces beside dungeon runs anyway.
But understand that is a Tier 1 Set which was without any shadow of a doubt better than the Tier 2 Sets. I bet if Grand Regent and Stalwart Bulwark were reversed from the start the change wouldn't have occurred to begin with but that fact that a Tier 1 item set was so much more visibly powerful than any other set by such a large gap can't be solved by simply increasing the other gear.
Tier 1 and Tier 2 have pretty strict definitions. Tier 1 have 4557 points to work with and Tier 2 have 5027 for Guardian Fighters.
If we pretend you have a really low HP Value of 20K, 5% of that is 1K. My Grand Regent only generates 800 Additional Power and a single swing from Stalwart Bulwark is better than the benefit from my Tier 2 set which is supposed to grant power. That can't be balanced by increasing the other sets. The set was just blatantly far too strong.
I'm with you guys that it's too weak now. Far, far too weak. But to pretend this nerf wasn't a long time coming is simply turning a blind eye to the reality of the Stalwart Bulwark set. It wasn't used by "90% of the Guardian Fighters" as the original poster stated because it was slightly better. It was used by 90% of the posters because it was blatantly better in every way.
Have u ever tried to get the stalwart set?? the helm piece is the hardest to get for the GFs. i still run mad dragon time to time. Never got an epic item just blue craps. and its harder than t2 dungs (except TOS)when playing in pugs. only chance u can get the helm is DD chest from easy T2 dungs, or AH.
I think the stalwart set deserves the set bonus higher than most t2 sets, since its harder to get.
When i got my stalwart set in OB, i was very disappointed. later on, i started to put some enchantments on jewelries and it got a bit better. Then i bought an Ioun stone but still 3-4th in overall dps after dungeon runs. When summer vacation started, a lot of veteran players quitted and a lot of new players came into this game at the same time. After few weeks, ppl started calling me as a DPS GF and i started outdpsing other players(GWF,CW, even TR) with same gear. yes im a conqueror GF but never thought my toon as dps GF. i just needed enuff dps to hold aggros. i dont even have rank 8+ runes on my gears. R6 dark on utility slots, R7 radiant on armor, pants and shield, GPF on ancient sword, and R6 azure on the rest. When i run dungs with other class players with decent GS, they still outdps my GF easily.
I dont see any problem in PVE. If theres a problem in pvp, then simply balance it instead of <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> up whole thing.
Are we still playing the beta?!? Because I thought that we shouldnt see such a nerf after investing so much in something.
We could also have invested real money so you should respect your customer and try to make softer changes.
Stalwart set is at the moment best in slot for GF and it is only a T1 set.
Maybe you just need to make it a T2 set instead of nerfing it and add a new T1 set but you Have to understand that you cant simply change items like that.
Sorry for my poor english.
Are we still playing the beta?!? Because I thought that we shouldnt see such a nerf after investing so much in something.
We could also have invested real money so you should respect your customer and try to make softer changes.
Stalwart set is at the moment best in slot for GF and it is only a T1 set.
Maybe you just need to make it a T2 set instead of nerfing it and add a new T1 set but you Have to understand that you cant simply change items like that.
Sorry for my poor english.
A T1 set should not be best in slot for any class if it were made a T2 set it would eclipse the other sets and possibly any other T3 4 5 OR 6 SETS THEY COME OUT WITH IN THE FUTURE Getting rid of the bonus was a better way so they don't have to deal with it any more especially moving the set effect up and up and up
Correct! give a refund.. im not a D&D fan to be honest. but i liked it when i tried it. but with this nerf on set, i would certainly feel bad. okay give it a nerf, but give us a better set. a set that can be used in PVE and PVP. playing tank is not easy, specially when your the one getting blamed for not tanking very well. make the TANK class playable. replace the stalwart set effect into 10% max health to power.
If this goes through I am done with this game. I only play a GF which is geared in Stalwarts with rank 7 enchants, etc. I am not going to pay to remove the gems and buy a different set of gear considering how useless Stalwarts will be after the rework. It's as if designers have to create artificial AD sinks so that people are more likely to buy ZEN to exchange for AD. Luckily FFXIV is coming out in a few weeks.
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dwaindiibleyMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 15Arc User
Honestly I think the Stalwart Bulwark Set was way overpowered and needed a hefty change.
The Stalwart Bulwak is a defensive set. If you look at the actual sets Guardian Fighters can obtain it is clear that it was intended to be the T1 version of the Grand Regent Set yet the four set bonus far exceeded the four set bonus of the Grand Regent. It should never of been both the top defensive and offensive set with a four piece set better than the Tier 2.
I think this was needed but not nearly to the extent it was done. Getting even two stacks of Stalwart Bulwark would bring it in line with my Grand Regent Bonus (5K Defense only grants 40 Bonus Damage for me) but such a bonus should not be limited to one attack. It should be a passive stack which generates and degenerates over time after blocking attacks. Even if you do manage to get to 10 stacks (easily possible) it is less than useful if it wears off after a single strike.
If such a degrading nature was built into the set it would need to give less bonus damage, perhaps +10 per stack, depending on how fast the benefit degraded but no matter what this current change, while needed, should not go into effect as a single hit or miss set-up.
I can see your point of view. And I would agree to this change if it were a persistent stack instead of a one hit wonder.
HOWEVER...being an experienced players of many MMO's over the last 10 years I have to disagree with a number of major facts.
(A) This is not beta. We are in LIVE. There was plenty of time to change this in beta. Most MMO's that go live make sweeping changes to class powers which is expected. However they dont pi$$ around much with items, especially when is comes to (B)
(B) This is a cash transaction game. If players could only earn items through gameplay then they have a right to be pi$$ed off after items are changed based on the time it takes to get them. But PW/Cryptic set up a cash transaction system and created an auction market based on demand. That demand set high prices for this set (or at least for the helmet). People have spent real money to acquire this set and if they change it at this late stage then anyone that has the set should be refunded whatever they have paid for it. I dont go out and buy a car only to have an technician turn up a month or two later and say sorry but we are removing your engine.
Comments
Agree with this. Grandfather the existing sets like you did with the "Antiquated Knight Captain's" set when it was broken. Either that or slightly debuff Stalwarts and make it the T2 and Grand Regents the T1.
As he said he can move to Timeless, but the main issue is buying/farming it, unslotting the armor enchants, new enchants, likely different belt ammy and rings now for new spec etc...not to mention the cost of transmute, dyes etc. if one has a look they like... Lots of $$$$ because of this.
I agree stalwart needed nerf. Thats not the issue. The issue is my lvl 8 enchantments and dye packs and transmute costs....... The issue is the millions of AD ive put into the set. There is no way around it. If this change goes through and stalwart users are not permitted to remove there enchantments free of charge its simply stealing time and money from paying customers.
Removing enchantments for free is imo a legitimate request, but you can't ask cryptic to live with your choices. I'm going to play the devil's advocate, but if you bought your gear with ADs and transmuted it's not their fault.
As I've made several posts about this in all of the threads about the change. It is a very simple fix: Change the % gained per stack from 5% down to 2%. I originally said 3% but 15% is still a lot of power gained when you have 30k+ HP. So 10% gives you around 3000 power or 120 weapon damage.
Because you can get gear from bosses and chests. And you don't need to transmute gear to play the game.
Some testing on the preview shard confirms this. I think what you wanna do now on a DPS build is to ignore CON, Half-Orc i.e. lets you start off with 15-18-15 or 16-16-16 even. Racial also gives you +5% crit severity, which is a nice sidekick to Timeless. With the Ancient set you need a single Azure to get to the 3.5k def. Since HP doesn't contribute to the DPS any longer, you can bolster your deflection with the other two defense slots.
Then why was it? Why did the developers make such a serious error in judgment when designing the set, and then assigning it to a lower tier? That's the real problem here.
They are going to have to display better judgment in future, in designing set abilities and assigning them to a tier where their power is similar to other sets in that tier.
With the cost of removing enchantments from sets changed radically from what they were before so high, along with the cost of other optional things such as transmuting and adding dyes to equipment.. all set at a cost to generate revenue for the company... those in charge of making these sets must make responsible decisions in their design and designation, or customers end out losing a great deal of their monetary investment in the game, and may begin to believe nothing is worth working for as it can't be relied upon to stay reasonably close to what it was when first obtained.
If the developers don't buckle down and get their design process straight, so that players can hope for some stability for their achievements, they may end out losing the confidence of the player base and could end out limiting the potential of their own game.
I hope there is improvement in the future on these issues, for the sake of what is quite a fun game.
if the changes go through to live, someone can have all of my <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> because ill be off -_-
That's still stupidly overpowered compared to Grand Regent. Grand Regent, grants players 521 Bonus Power based on the set alone. Stacking Defense you might be lucky, if you really pushed defense, to reach 7K Defense and that would be 1400 bonus power.
I would say a true minimum for Guardian Fighters would be 22K HP or so. That means a single stack would be 1,200 bonus power. A build which truly stacks HP such as yours builds 1900 per stack. It would still make the set far, far superior than Grand Regent which is the Tier 2 Equivalent.
Sure perhaps the Grand Regent could be buffed...but it can't be buffed simply to be on par with a Tier 1 set effect. Especially not when it would need at around 2400 bonus power in order for the effects to be even closely comparable (33% of defense to power)
Yeah I think you guys should be compensated in some way...
But the stalwark set simply granted too much for the effect.
P.S. Before you complain about the bonus damage do check how much of a difference that makes. 800 Power (My Grand Regent Bonus) only gave me 40 bonus damage and that bonus only goes down in scale as I stack power. In that case it would only require two stacks to have a better benefit than Grand Regent but the major issue with this proposed change is that it is a one attack, 100% drain bonus whether you hit or or miss.
The bonus is actually exceptional. Probably better than before but would never be used effectively and especially in PvP would be avoided too easily.
No set needs a bonus that powerful end of discussion you can chose 3 T2 armor set's Build on your play style if you DPS timeless if you wanna tank with decent dps Grand Regent if you wanna support High generals. One armor set should not be able to get you all of that with out any cons at all Let alone a lowly t1 armor set armor that's suppose to be a lesser version to its t2 counter parts
lol then nerf it dont change the whole mechanics that'll make all the investment on that set a waste.
Even if you nerf the stack's and take two even 3 away its still better then a t2 set. If you nerf the stack by 2 and % to 2 or 3 people will cry about it and say they were cheated out of AD. The stalwarts nerf is a lose/lose situation even if they didn't change the effect and nerfed it to be less powerful then a T2 set people would cry
Have u ever tried to get the stalwart set?? the helm piece is the hardest to get for the GFs. i still run mad dragon time to time. Never got an epic item just blue craps. and its harder than t2 dungs (except TOS)when playing in pugs. only chance u can get the helm is DD chest from easy T2 dungs, or AH.
I think the stalwart set deserves the set bonus higher than most t2 sets, since its harder to get.
When i got my stalwart set in OB, i was very disappointed. later on, i started to put some enchantments on jewelries and it got a bit better. Then i bought an Ioun stone but still 3-4th in overall dps after dungeon runs. When summer vacation started, a lot of veteran players quitted and a lot of new players came into this game at the same time. After few weeks, ppl started calling me as a DPS GF and i started outdpsing other players(GWF,CW, even TR) with same gear. yes im a conqueror GF but never thought my toon as dps GF. i just needed enuff dps to hold aggros. i dont even have rank 8+ runes on my gears. R6 dark on utility slots, R7 radiant on armor, pants and shield, GPF on ancient sword, and R6 azure on the rest. When i run dungs with other class players with decent GS, they still outdps my GF easily.
I dont see any problem in PVE. If theres a problem in pvp, then simply balance it instead of <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> up whole thing.
We could also have invested real money so you should respect your customer and try to make softer changes.
Stalwart set is at the moment best in slot for GF and it is only a T1 set.
Maybe you just need to make it a T2 set instead of nerfing it and add a new T1 set but you Have to understand that you cant simply change items like that.
Sorry for my poor english.
Read your Terms of Use.
Or use some common sense
A T1 set should not be best in slot for any class if it were made a T2 set it would eclipse the other sets and possibly any other T3 4 5 OR 6 SETS THEY COME OUT WITH IN THE FUTURE Getting rid of the bonus was a better way so they don't have to deal with it any more especially moving the set effect up and up and up
I can see your point of view. And I would agree to this change if it were a persistent stack instead of a one hit wonder.
HOWEVER...being an experienced players of many MMO's over the last 10 years I have to disagree with a number of major facts.
(A) This is not beta. We are in LIVE. There was plenty of time to change this in beta. Most MMO's that go live make sweeping changes to class powers which is expected. However they dont pi$$ around much with items, especially when is comes to (B)
(B) This is a cash transaction game. If players could only earn items through gameplay then they have a right to be pi$$ed off after items are changed based on the time it takes to get them. But PW/Cryptic set up a cash transaction system and created an auction market based on demand. That demand set high prices for this set (or at least for the helmet). People have spent real money to acquire this set and if they change it at this late stage then anyone that has the set should be refunded whatever they have paid for it. I dont go out and buy a car only to have an technician turn up a month or two later and say sorry but we are removing your engine.