I personally have had a terrible experience with CW's pushing single ogre and orcs all over the **** skirmish area. FFS, stop it! If you're using repel to save your life, thats good. When there is one **** monster left and we have it surrounding, don't be a ****** and repel it 100 feet away from us all.
Foundry - Fight Club? (nw-dluqbofu7)
- JailBreak (in development)
0
jiguur1Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
After running the call to arms event for three days, I am completely shocked as to how many lvl 60 clerics there are that don't have a clue as to what they're doing. I would say that 1 out of 4 actually knew what they were doing. By that I mean not only do they recognize their role in the group (healer), but also they knew how to do it. A cleric that doesn't know how to heal is just as bad as a guardian fighter that doesn't realize he has a shield or a rogue that never dodges. It's what your job is!!!!
So here's a few tips for the clerics that haven't been told or been able to figure it out on their own:
1. Astral Seal is your MAIN heal!!!! When you hit something with astral seal, any character that does damage to that character is healed a little bit. Therefore, it is wise to hit as many mobs with AS as you can in the beginning of the fight to get the healing started.
2. Healing Word is NOT your main heal!!!!! If you notice, healing word is a low level encounter. You only have 3 charges and it doesn't heal for very much. I am TOTALLY amazed at how many clerics there are in this game that think HW is a clerics main and only heal.
3. Divine power is your friend!!!!! If you read your encounters, you will see a second bit of wording that will tell you what divinity does for it. For example, forgemaster's flame will do a large heal to anyone around the mob if used with divine power. For those that don't know, you press your tab, then your encounter to get divine power.
Sorry to be so basic here, and I don't mean to be condescending even though it probably sounds like it. It's just terribly frustrating how many lvl 60 DCs there are that don't have the foggiest idea. I guess this could probably be said for any class, but a poorly played cleric will effect the group moreso than any other poorly played class.
Thanks for listening!!!!!
Dude, i must say that not all players have to be perfect! it's just a game.
Dominatin' force of Mongolia:mad:
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michaelpoynerMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 75
edited August 2013
Everyone knows that merlin420id. instead of bashing our class how about you give more information, we don't go bashing your class or how certain classes don't aggro mobs and they attack clerics and cw's, and so on. like hey clerics you know when you use divine power on a skill than use another skill you stack and get Action Points alot faster. Recovery Stackin .I use Astral Shield,Sun burst and Forgemaster's flame, why do I use those? it's because those skills stack my AP so fast within 15 sec's I have my daily again. Forgemaster's flame burns the target but using divine on it will heal nearby allies!!!. Sun burst gives alot of divine power. And of course you need Astral Shield.
I'm alvl 60 Cleric and I do a damm good job on making sure my team stays alive, I've done about 77 Call to Arms runs and not once let my team die, I did die once tho when in the beginning someone aggro'd all three chest of mobs and had them come to me and the gf or cw didn't help to get them off. But other than that.
After running the call to arms event for three days, I am completely shocked as to how many lvl 60 clerics there are that don't have a clue as to what they're doing. I would say that 1 out of 4 actually knew what they were doing. By that I mean not only do they recognize their role in the group (healer), but also they knew how to do it. A cleric that doesn't know how to heal is just as bad as a guardian fighter that doesn't realize he has a shield or a rogue that never dodges. It's what your job is!!!!
So here's a few tips for the clerics that haven't been told or been able to figure it out on their own:
1. Astral Seal is your MAIN heal!!!! When you hit something with astral seal, any character that does damage to that character is healed a little bit. Therefore, it is wise to hit as many mobs with AS as you can in the beginning of the fight to get the healing started.
2. Healing Word is NOT your main heal!!!!! If you notice, healing word is a low level encounter. You only have 3 charges and it doesn't heal for very much. I am TOTALLY amazed at how many clerics there are in this game that think HW is a clerics main and only heal.
3. Divine power is your friend!!!!! If you read your encounters, you will see a second bit of wording that will tell you what divinity does for it. For example, forgemaster's flame will do a large heal to anyone around the mob if used with divine power. For those that don't know, you press your tab, then your encounter to get divine power.
Sorry to be so basic here, and I don't mean to be condescending even though it probably sounds like it. It's just terribly frustrating how many lvl 60 DCs there are that don't have the foggiest idea. I guess this could probably be said for any class, but a poorly played cleric will effect the group moreso than any other poorly played class.
Just saying, when I am playing on my DC I love rogues that use smoke bomb. Watching the event from my GF, the level gap from healers was the cause of almost all problems. A lvl 10 DC cant heal efficiently.
Just saying, when I am playing on my DC I love rogues that use smoke bomb. Watching the event from my GF, the level gap from healers was the cause of almost all problems. A lvl 10 DC cant heal efficiently.
when I ran it on my level 20 DC no issues, because people didn't expect me to be able to efficiently heal them. Whereas on my level 60 DC they expect it and therefore fail if you are doing dps like even many faithful spec DC have been for this event.
i have seen a lvl 60 CW that only uses ray of frost. he has been told what he should be using and been given tips by every CW that has come across him. he still just uses ray of frost. so sad.
I think you don't really understand this game well enough to give such advices, so let me instead give you some advices on how to run the CTA event (based on what I've seen there). Whatever your class is, here goes:
1. Stop standing in the red!
2. No, seriously, get out of the red! I don't care for your encounter's cooldown, get out!
3. Get out of the red!
4. Now!
5. "Red" means "bad"! Not "stop"!
6. Stand in the blue!
7. Don't knock mobs out of the blue circle!
8. Don't run away from me to the other side of the map!
9. Stand in the blue!
10. You don't need to kill savage ogre first, his attacks can be easily avoided by simply walking, he's slow! Kill others, they are swarming me and our low-level teammates!
11. Use your pots!
12. Stop biting ogre and get this swarm of mobs out of me, I can't heal you while tanking!
13. Stop running away from the blue circle, it's not even funny. Yes, you see more mobs, so what? They see you too and will arrive here in a less than a second, you need to fight them in my blue circle, not in their red ones!
14. Awesome, now I'm a dead cleric because you were trying to chop savage again. Maybe I'll just AFK while you're trying to solo this instance?
I hope that these advices that many clerics don't have time to type in the chat will enhance your gaming experience greatly. Have a good day.
I hope that these advices that many clerics don't have time to type in the chat will enhance your gaming experience greatly. Have a good day.
Another problem is that people don't speak English very well, you'll notice it when they die and spam 'help' in words you never heard of before. I like to keep it simpler:
Was using my main level 42 DC for this event. There were a lot of groups where someone would run off on their own and not wait for everyone. Hard to heal when there two different battles going on. I personally use Astral Seal, SF as my at wills and Sunbrust, BOH, Healing words as my heals. A lot of groups didn't use pots even when near death and just waited for me to heal them. Once in awhile the group would try to keep me safe, but in most cases it just seen like a free for all. Also Holy Resolve save me so many times in this event. Used Daily Armor over Hollow Ground in this event since a lot of people were taking so much damage and a lot of people would moved out of hollow ground range. In general this event showed the lack of teamwork between a lot of players.
Often times people would grabbed the three chests in the back and without waiting for the rest of the group kill the last mob of that wave so when your opening the chest the next wave would spawn on you.
yeah my then level 19 (level 20 now) DC out dpsed a level 60 CW in one skirmish run who was in full epics.
he had lead to so I waited until the end once I had my chest and called him out for being a slacker.
LOL at this wannabe elite posturing - you guys do realise that they use an automatic level-scaling system for the skirmish, right......
The fact that you aren't getting one-shot by mobs that do noticeable damage to level 40/60s should have told you this. I am pretty sure they would have used a similar system to that in the Foundry which results in lower levels having a very easy time while higher level have a much more difficult challenge.
Otherwise if you guys are so good, I look forward to seeing the videos of your level 12 TR soloing all of Pirates Skyhold, for example, or your level 19 CW doing Whispering Caverns. I am sure we are all waiting anxiously to see your LEET SKILLZ in action......
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sasheriaMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 1Arc User
edited August 2013
I play DC as my main cause I love being a healer type. BUT 4th edition (I understand that is up for debate but NW is base loosely on 4th ed rules instead of 3rd and below)
Since it is 4th ed rule base, there are no TRUE healing class like other MMO. We DO have heals and a couple of BURST heal (that many players are use to) but it is more of topping off and prevention of damage WHILE dealing damage (this is new to some players consider many classic healers just spam different type of heal spells and buffs the whole time)
this means that OTHER players must be smart in playing their character. This also mean that players CAN'T just sit and take damage as they "use to" in other MMO (some MMO a healer can heal thru the damage with single or aoE/mass heals)
With limited burst heal (big heals), we try to save it for main tank. this means than if you stand in the RED are, prepare to take a potion first and don't yell at us for not healing you fast enough. Remember a dead tank could mean a wipe. A dead healer could also mean a wipe and since healers are aggro magnet, we are pretty busy dodging, healing and dps. in 4th ed, Priest are consider leader class because they need to know what is going on in the field at all time, but if everyone is scattering in 5 different direction, I'm going to follow the tank
You guys do realise that they use an auto-level scaling system for the skirmish right......
The fact that you aren't getting one-shot by level 60 mobs should have told you this. Otherwise if you guys are so good, you'd be fine in your level 12 TR doing Pirates Skyhold, for example or your level 19 CW doing Whispering Caverns...
Scaling yes so that anyone of higher level needs to do more damage to make the same dent into the monsters. Meaning anyone of level 60 should not be getting outlevelled but a character of significantly lower level.
btw my low level char was a DC not a CW, it was the level 60 CW that she out dps'd
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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beckylunaticMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 14,231Arc User
You guys do realise that they use an auto-level scaling system for the skirmish right......
Yeah, you'd see some weird stuff with the scaling. I took worse beatings when paired up with a whole bunch of lowbies, even got killed a couple of times.
I will admit that going in with an organized premade group with a strategy was more efficient and safe as houses, but random queueing was not entirely un-fun.
Scaling yes so that anyone of higher level needs to do more damage to make the same dent into the monsters. Meaning anyone of level 60 should not be getting outlevelled but a character of significantly lower level.
btw my low level char was a DC not a CW, it was the level 60 CW that she out dps'd
I assume you mean 'out-damaged by' not 'outlevelled but'.
In any case, your 'argument' falls apart since otherwise Foundries would be easier for higher level characters. And since this all due to scaling your boasts are, at best, pointless, if not downright laughable...
If you don't think is down to scaling, then I look forward to seeing the video of you soloing Whispering Caverns on your level 20 CW, sorry DC...
I assume you mean 'out-damaged by' not 'outlevelled but'.
In any case, your 'argument' falls apart since otherwise Foundries would be easier for higher level characters. And since this all due to scaling your boasts are, at best, pointless, if not downright laughable...
If you don't think is down to scaling, then I look forward to seeing the video of you soloing Whispering Caverns on your level 20 CW, sorry DC...
you missed the point, the scaling works so that low level characters can make at least as good a dent into the monsters as the level 60's dealing less damage. So the damage numbers for a level 60 should be above that of a level 12 TR or level 20 DC. the lower level chars participate just as much but they deal less overall damage.
No wait, what? The other way round so that higher level people need to do LESS damage to make the same dent? That's clearly not the case or you'd just be one-shotting everything at 60.
As far as I can tell, it has some arbitrary "health and damage output" figure for each monster, that is level-scaled, so a given orc will do say 30 points of damage with one hit to a level 5 dude, but (say) 1200 points to a level 60 dude. Then armour etc is factored in.
Similarly, if the level 60 dude hits it, it assumes it has 12000 hit points total, whereas if the level 5 hits it, it assumes it has..say, 400 total.
Thus if it's at 50% health and is hit by the level 60 for 2k, it calculates 50% of 12000, so 6000, minus 2000 = 4000 so it's now at 33% health (4000/12000).
Then the level 5 hits it for 66, so 33% of 400 is 133, minus 66 = 66 so it's now at 16% health (66/400).
Both people have reduced its health by 16%, even though the damage dealt was 2000 points vs 66 points.
Now the question is: how is this scored at the end, since final deeps counter is what people love to epeen about.
If the scoring is scaled, then our two folks above at level 60 and 5, should score the same assuming they maintain their proportional damage outputs. If scoring is NOT scaled, then the level 60 will win hands down, since they're putting out 30 times the damage.
Now for healing (the only stat I feel confident judging on), I am pretty sure it's counted as flat heal numbers, so NOT scaled. If I'm in a party of level 60s, I will heal 300-500k depending on how prone to standing in red they are. If I'm in a party of level 15-30s, I will heal only 30-100k depending on red-standing...because level 30s don't have anything like as much health.
If damage scoring follows a similar pattern (flat non-scaled numbers), then yes, seeing a level 20 out dpsing a level 60 is not good. If it doesn't, then out dpsing a higher level dude is entirely possible.
Anyone who has spent any time in a Champions Alert. Knows that the scaling can be wonky.
I know there, a 40 scaled down to 30 would do less damage then an equal character at 30. And a level 20 character scaled to 30 would actually do more damage then either the 30 or the 40
The scaling here, feels better. But without hard tests and numbers its anyones guess on what is actually happening. One thing to note, however, is Cryptic has a history is greatly favoring lower leveled players in these group type missions. The higher levels typically come out the worst when it comes to scaling
you missed the point, the scaling works so that low level characters can make at least as good a dent into the monsters as the level 60's dealing less damage. So the damage numbers for a level 60 should be above that of a level 12 TR or level 20 DC.
So still no video of your level 20 DC soloing Whispering Caverns then. Thought not.....
The Devs are using a scaling system for these skirmishes. When they did this in the Foundry it ends up boosting players relative damage towards monsters much, much more at lower levels. Hence why Foundries are always so trivial for lower levels and so much harder at higher levels. No one disputes this. So it makes sense that when they introduced scaling here, it will have the same effect. Also as sockmunkey pointed out apparently their scaling system in Champions Online had exactly the same result...
Unless you truly believe that your 'LEET SKILZ' mean your level 20 DC can outDPS a level 60 CW in Epics without scaling. In which case please post the video of your level 20 DC soloing Whispering Caverns which should be trivial....
If they DO scale damage for level, and (as sockmunkey suggests) they favour lower levels (or have it bracketed, so a level 35 will be the best in the 30-35 bracket, but a level 36 will be the worst in the 36-40 bracket), then we should be seeing higher levels being routinely outdamaged by lower levels.
Hrmm...I really need to somehow get on a double-cleric party with a lowbie DC. :P
Sure my healing skills could use some work. I was able to understand my DC a lot better and have some fun with it during the event.
PPL who aggro the whole map, create chaos, then expect to you to bail them out, when you didn't even know it was happening...that happened more than is cool.
Lots of people need to L2P in this game, not just the healers. You are responsible for keeping yourself alive. I can help, but I can't always target you in a cluster.
Given that in previous cases the scaling system has always favored lower levels, frequently considerably.
Now either this is due to scaling or it is not.
If it is all due to scaling than any boasts are irrelevant, indeed laughable. If not, then surely the player skills will allow them to do a simple demonstration such as I suggested...
So is it player skills or scaling then, morsitans?
It could be both, you realise? (And ridiculous hyperbole is ridiculous hyperbole whether you like it or not)
Speaking from general impressions of the damage table, in the groups I've been in the damage has tended to go "high level deeps >> low level deeps", and I've not personally seen a lowbie character do more damage than their level 60 equivalent. I've seen a lowbie TR do more thana level 60 GF, but then in that particular example the GF was obsessed with soloing stuff miles away, so spent a fair amount of time dead (I can't heal through walls: who knew?).
I dunno, it's interesting. I'd be interested in seeing more numbers, certainly.
If they DO scale damage for level, and (as sockmunkey suggests) they favour lower levels (or have it bracketed, so a level 35 will be the best in the 30-35 bracket, but a level 36 will be the worst in the 36-40 bracket), then we should be seeing higher levels being routinely outdamaged by lower levels.
Hrmm...I really need to somehow get on a double-cleric party with a lowbie DC. :P
There is more going on here then just scaling. Available powers and gear has a strong effect. Case in point, had a level 6 GF in one alert. Yes, he did the least damage of the group, but only by a small margin. This was in minimal gear and without a full complement of powers yet and playing an initaly low damaging class.
Had he been a rogue. He might not of been last. Now, being level 6 and on the extreme end of the scale he was, most likley, boosted to the extreme. For the more mid range cases im sure the boost is significant enough that if factors such as gear and stats where equal they might just top the charts.
It could be both, you realise? (And ridiculous hyperbole is ridiculous hyperbole whether you like it or not)
Speaking from general impressions of the damage table, in the groups I've been in the damage has tended to go "high level deeps >> low level deeps", and I've not personally seen a lowbie character do more damage than their level 60 equivalent. I've seen a lowbie TR do more thana level 60 GF, but then in that particular example the GF was obsessed with soloing stuff miles away, so spent a fair amount of time dead (I can't heal through walls: who knew?).
I dunno, it's interesting. I'd be interested in seeing more numbers, certainly.
Nice attempt to dodge, but a bad failure at coming up with an actual argument. The facts we have: that the Foundry and similar scaling systems in other games by Cryptic have always heavily favored low level characters, indicate that this is purely a scaling issue.
Boasting of how their low level characters outdid level 60s in Epics, implies it is down to skill, not broken scaling.
Or are you admitting that I was right about it being scaling all along, and are now just trying to save face by desperately trying to confuse the issue with the "well it may be 99% scaling but there could be 1% skill factor too" style of argument....
If they DO scale damage for level, and (as sockmunkey suggests) they favour lower levels (or have it bracketed, so a level 35 will be the best in the 30-35 bracket, but a level 36 will be the worst in the 36-40 bracket), then we should be seeing higher levels being routinely outdamaged by lower levels.
Hrmm...I really need to somehow get on a double-cleric party with a lowbie DC. :P
Yes it's not the same, in a level 60 zone you will get killed in 1 shot, that is not the case in the skirmish. Also if you want to test with a low level level DC I have one at level 21.
Yes it's not the same, in a level 60 zone you will get killed in 1 shot, that is not the case in the skirmish. Also if you want to test with a level level DC I have one at level 21.
Which is my point - it is all down to a scaling issue.
So boasting about how you outDPSed a level 60 in Epics and needled them afterwards is ridiculous, given that all the other examples of scaling by Cryptic in this and another game, have massively favoured low level characters...
Which is my point - it is all down to a scaling issue.
So boasting about how you outDPSed a level 60 in Epics and needled them afterwards is ridiculous, given that all the other examples of scaling by Cryptic in this and another game, have massively favoured low level characters...
the general trend I noticed is that no one not level 60 ever beat though at level 60. So for that trend to break is kind of weird. And he was slacking off, if he wasn't he would not have been last for damage. Even a tank who was mostly blocking beat this guy.
Comments
- JailBreak (in development)
Dude, i must say that not all players have to be perfect! it's just a game.
I'm alvl 60 Cleric and I do a damm good job on making sure my team stays alive, I've done about 77 Call to Arms runs and not once let my team die, I did die once tho when in the beginning someone aggro'd all three chest of mobs and had them come to me and the gf or cw didn't help to get them off. But other than that.
when I ran it on my level 20 DC no issues, because people didn't expect me to be able to efficiently heal them. Whereas on my level 60 DC they expect it and therefore fail if you are doing dps like even many faithful spec DC have been for this event.
I think you don't really understand this game well enough to give such advices, so let me instead give you some advices on how to run the CTA event (based on what I've seen there). Whatever your class is, here goes:
1. Stop standing in the red!
2. No, seriously, get out of the red! I don't care for your encounter's cooldown, get out!
3. Get out of the red!
4. Now!
5. "Red" means "bad"! Not "stop"!
6. Stand in the blue!
7. Don't knock mobs out of the blue circle!
8. Don't run away from me to the other side of the map!
9. Stand in the blue!
10. You don't need to kill savage ogre first, his attacks can be easily avoided by simply walking, he's slow! Kill others, they are swarming me and our low-level teammates!
11. Use your pots!
12. Stop biting ogre and get this swarm of mobs out of me, I can't heal you while tanking!
13. Stop running away from the blue circle, it's not even funny. Yes, you see more mobs, so what? They see you too and will arrive here in a less than a second, you need to fight them in my blue circle, not in their red ones!
14. Awesome, now I'm a dead cleric because you were trying to chop savage again. Maybe I'll just AFK while you're trying to solo this instance?
I hope that these advices that many clerics don't have time to type in the chat will enhance your gaming experience greatly. Have a good day.
Another problem is that people don't speak English very well, you'll notice it when they die and spam 'help' in words you never heard of before. I like to keep it simpler:
Often times people would grabbed the three chests in the back and without waiting for the rest of the group kill the last mob of that wave so when your opening the chest the next wave would spawn on you.
First Skirmish I ran at lvl 12 I out dps'd a lvl 48 CW with a lvl 12 TR...
Utterly Shameful..
yeah my then level 19 (level 20 now) DC out dpsed a level 60 CW in one skirmish run who was in full epics.
he had lead to so I waited until the end once I had my chest and called him out for being a slacker.
LOL at this wannabe elite posturing - you guys do realise that they use an automatic level-scaling system for the skirmish, right......
The fact that you aren't getting one-shot by mobs that do noticeable damage to level 40/60s should have told you this. I am pretty sure they would have used a similar system to that in the Foundry which results in lower levels having a very easy time while higher level have a much more difficult challenge.
Otherwise if you guys are so good, I look forward to seeing the videos of your level 12 TR soloing all of Pirates Skyhold, for example, or your level 19 CW doing Whispering Caverns. I am sure we are all waiting anxiously to see your LEET SKILLZ in action......
Since it is 4th ed rule base, there are no TRUE healing class like other MMO. We DO have heals and a couple of BURST heal (that many players are use to) but it is more of topping off and prevention of damage WHILE dealing damage (this is new to some players consider many classic healers just spam different type of heal spells and buffs the whole time)
this means that OTHER players must be smart in playing their character. This also mean that players CAN'T just sit and take damage as they "use to" in other MMO (some MMO a healer can heal thru the damage with single or aoE/mass heals)
With limited burst heal (big heals), we try to save it for main tank. this means than if you stand in the RED are, prepare to take a potion first and don't yell at us for not healing you fast enough. Remember a dead tank could mean a wipe. A dead healer could also mean a wipe and since healers are aggro magnet, we are pretty busy dodging, healing and dps. in 4th ed, Priest are consider leader class because they need to know what is going on in the field at all time, but if everyone is scattering in 5 different direction, I'm going to follow the tank
Please review my campaign and I'll return the favor.
Scaling yes so that anyone of higher level needs to do more damage to make the same dent into the monsters. Meaning anyone of level 60 should not be getting outlevelled but a character of significantly lower level.
btw my low level char was a DC not a CW, it was the level 60 CW that she out dps'd
Yeah, you'd see some weird stuff with the scaling. I took worse beatings when paired up with a whole bunch of lowbies, even got killed a couple of times.
I will admit that going in with an organized premade group with a strategy was more efficient and safe as houses, but random queueing was not entirely un-fun.
Neverwinter Census 2017
All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
I assume you mean 'out-damaged by' not 'outlevelled but'.
In any case, your 'argument' falls apart since otherwise Foundries would be easier for higher level characters. And since this all due to scaling your boasts are, at best, pointless, if not downright laughable...
If you don't think is down to scaling, then I look forward to seeing the video of you soloing Whispering Caverns on your level 20 CW, sorry DC...
you missed the point, the scaling works so that low level characters can make at least as good a dent into the monsters as the level 60's dealing less damage. So the damage numbers for a level 60 should be above that of a level 12 TR or level 20 DC. the lower level chars participate just as much but they deal less overall damage.
No wait, what? The other way round so that higher level people need to do LESS damage to make the same dent? That's clearly not the case or you'd just be one-shotting everything at 60.
As far as I can tell, it has some arbitrary "health and damage output" figure for each monster, that is level-scaled, so a given orc will do say 30 points of damage with one hit to a level 5 dude, but (say) 1200 points to a level 60 dude. Then armour etc is factored in.
Similarly, if the level 60 dude hits it, it assumes it has 12000 hit points total, whereas if the level 5 hits it, it assumes it has..say, 400 total.
Thus if it's at 50% health and is hit by the level 60 for 2k, it calculates 50% of 12000, so 6000, minus 2000 = 4000 so it's now at 33% health (4000/12000).
Then the level 5 hits it for 66, so 33% of 400 is 133, minus 66 = 66 so it's now at 16% health (66/400).
Both people have reduced its health by 16%, even though the damage dealt was 2000 points vs 66 points.
Now the question is: how is this scored at the end, since final deeps counter is what people love to epeen about.
If the scoring is scaled, then our two folks above at level 60 and 5, should score the same assuming they maintain their proportional damage outputs. If scoring is NOT scaled, then the level 60 will win hands down, since they're putting out 30 times the damage.
Now for healing (the only stat I feel confident judging on), I am pretty sure it's counted as flat heal numbers, so NOT scaled. If I'm in a party of level 60s, I will heal 300-500k depending on how prone to standing in red they are. If I'm in a party of level 15-30s, I will heal only 30-100k depending on red-standing...because level 30s don't have anything like as much health.
If damage scoring follows a similar pattern (flat non-scaled numbers), then yes, seeing a level 20 out dpsing a level 60 is not good. If it doesn't, then out dpsing a higher level dude is entirely possible.
I know there, a 40 scaled down to 30 would do less damage then an equal character at 30. And a level 20 character scaled to 30 would actually do more damage then either the 30 or the 40
The scaling here, feels better. But without hard tests and numbers its anyones guess on what is actually happening. One thing to note, however, is Cryptic has a history is greatly favoring lower leveled players in these group type missions. The higher levels typically come out the worst when it comes to scaling
So still no video of your level 20 DC soloing Whispering Caverns then. Thought not.....
The Devs are using a scaling system for these skirmishes. When they did this in the Foundry it ends up boosting players relative damage towards monsters much, much more at lower levels. Hence why Foundries are always so trivial for lower levels and so much harder at higher levels. No one disputes this. So it makes sense that when they introduced scaling here, it will have the same effect. Also as sockmunkey pointed out apparently their scaling system in Champions Online had exactly the same result...
Unless you truly believe that your 'LEET SKILZ' mean your level 20 DC can outDPS a level 60 CW in Epics without scaling. In which case please post the video of your level 20 DC soloing Whispering Caverns which should be trivial....
Hrmm...I really need to somehow get on a double-cleric party with a lowbie DC. :P
PPL who aggro the whole map, create chaos, then expect to you to bail them out, when you didn't even know it was happening...that happened more than is cool.
Lots of people need to L2P in this game, not just the healers. You are responsible for keeping yourself alive. I can help, but I can't always target you in a cluster.
Now either this is due to scaling or it is not.
If it is all due to scaling than any boasts are irrelevant, indeed laughable. If not, then surely the player skills will allow them to do a simple demonstration such as I suggested...
So is it player skills or scaling then, morsitans?
Speaking from general impressions of the damage table, in the groups I've been in the damage has tended to go "high level deeps >> low level deeps", and I've not personally seen a lowbie character do more damage than their level 60 equivalent. I've seen a lowbie TR do more thana level 60 GF, but then in that particular example the GF was obsessed with soloing stuff miles away, so spent a fair amount of time dead (I can't heal through walls: who knew?).
I dunno, it's interesting. I'd be interested in seeing more numbers, certainly.
There is more going on here then just scaling. Available powers and gear has a strong effect. Case in point, had a level 6 GF in one alert. Yes, he did the least damage of the group, but only by a small margin. This was in minimal gear and without a full complement of powers yet and playing an initaly low damaging class.
Had he been a rogue. He might not of been last. Now, being level 6 and on the extreme end of the scale he was, most likley, boosted to the extreme. For the more mid range cases im sure the boost is significant enough that if factors such as gear and stats where equal they might just top the charts.
Nice attempt to dodge, but a bad failure at coming up with an actual argument. The facts we have: that the Foundry and similar scaling systems in other games by Cryptic have always heavily favored low level characters, indicate that this is purely a scaling issue.
Boasting of how their low level characters outdid level 60s in Epics, implies it is down to skill, not broken scaling.
Or are you admitting that I was right about it being scaling all along, and are now just trying to save face by desperately trying to confuse the issue with the "well it may be 99% scaling but there could be 1% skill factor too" style of argument....
Yes it's not the same, in a level 60 zone you will get killed in 1 shot, that is not the case in the skirmish. Also if you want to test with a low level level DC I have one at level 21.
Which is my point - it is all down to a scaling issue.
So boasting about how you outDPSed a level 60 in Epics and needled them afterwards is ridiculous, given that all the other examples of scaling by Cryptic in this and another game, have massively favoured low level characters...
the general trend I noticed is that no one not level 60 ever beat though at level 60. So for that trend to break is kind of weird. And he was slacking off, if he wasn't he would not have been last for damage. Even a tank who was mostly blocking beat this guy.