Cloud of Steel: This power now has 8 maximum charges, down from 12.
Duelist's Flurry: When the bleed portion of this power is at 10 stacks, further applications now recalculate damage in addition to refreshing the duration.
Feat: Speed Swindle: This feat is now properly considered a Control effect for calculations and procs.
Lurker's Assault: This power now grants 5 / 10 / 15% bonus Crit Severity, instead of 20 / 40 / 60% bonus damage.
Stealth: At-will powers used from stealth will now partially deplete the Stealth Meter.
Relax, rogues still have an encounter power more powerful than many dailies, called Lashing Blade. No need for crying. Rejoice they did not nerf that power. They also still have plenty of controls to daze foes. Rogue will just be toned down from OP to decent. Yeah it was very funny to oneshot CWs DCs and other TRs with LA+LB right ?
Now I wonder when they will tone down GF and GWF from GODLIKE to decent ?
But I can't help laughing at people crying about the Stealth build nerf, after spending months ruining the PVP experience of the other players, they now will have to adapt. Rejoice again that they did not change it so stealth is disabled as soon as you land your first blow, like in most games.
Relax, rogues still have an encounter power more powerful than many dailies, called Lashing Blade. No need for crying. Rejoice they did not nerf that power. They also still have plenty of controls to daze foes. Rogue will just be toned down from OP to decent. Yeah it was very funny to oneshot CWs DCs and other TRs with LA+LB right ?
Now I wonder when they will tone down GF and GWF from GODLIKE to decent ?
But I can't help laughing at people crying about the Stealth build nerf, after spending months ruining the PVP experience of the other players, they now will have to adapt. Rejoice again that they did not change it so stealth is disabled as soon as you land your first blow, like in most games.
Do you know what the most amusing part is? Most of the whiners do not even know the rogue class well enough to realize these changes do almost nothing in pvp other than a minor change to perma stealthers. It does however gut the class in PVE. I will repeat that in case you did not understand... A very meager pvp and perma stealth nerf, absolutely huge pve nerf. So you will still be crying nerf after these nerfs.
This is very disappointing news. I'm not a people person and just like to get out of my head in a solo kill-athon/farmfest here and there and all I have are 2 60 rogues. (2nd being a decent stealther i just freaking finished gearing with t1 yesturday...)
Guess I might have to dust off D2 yet again.
Well the key is you should be able to accomplish that on any toon. If you feel that is only capable on a rogue then that could be why there fixing it. D2 great game you could play the AH on D3 that's what I do now in spare time.
Relax, rogues still have an encounter power more powerful than many dailies, called Lashing Blade. No need for crying. Rejoice they did not nerf that power. They also still have plenty of controls to daze foes. Rogue will just be toned down from OP to decent. Yeah it was very funny to oneshot CWs DCs and other TRs with LA+LB right ?
Now I wonder when they will tone down GF and GWF from GODLIKE to decent ?
But I can't help laughing at people crying about the Stealth build nerf, after spending months ruining the PVP experience of the other players, they now will have to adapt. Rejoice again that they did not change it so stealth is disabled as soon as you land your first blow, like in most games.
Great points on the rogue. Now the rogue is brought down to the other classes abilities some in line with GF,GWF,DC,CW. Now the rogue is on a more even playing field. GF needs no toning down and is now closer to being balanced with a rogue after these adjustments. Only thing a GF needs is more Def and block buffs. GWF I think sentinel should be changed and they should get more offensive power. Only thing I see wrong there. There was only 1 class that was beyond godlike and that's a rogue now its getting pretty balanced.
Do you know what the most amusing part is? Most of the whiners do not even know the rogue class well enough to realize these changes do almost nothing in pvp other than a minor change to perma stealthers. It does however gut the class in PVE. I will repeat that in case you did not understand... A very meager pvp and perma stealth nerf, absolutely huge pve nerf. So you will still be crying nerf after these nerfs.
Nice try but I got a rogue myself.
Lurker Assault is what make rogue able to OS people, if they got vorpal. So of course the LA nerf will have an impact on pvp.
As a cleric I'm used to nerfs you know. Adapt.
Rogue can no longer solo boss in 10mins ? Yeah well now it will take 20mins or a second dps on boss. Not a big deal.
Don't try to pretend that you are worried about PVE, that's too funny. It's clear that you are whining because your PVP experience will go from OS to struggling like others.
Do you know what the most amusing part is? Most of the whiners do not even know the rogue class well enough to realize these changes do almost nothing in pvp other than a minor change to perma stealthers. It does however gut the class in PVE. I will repeat that in case you did not understand... A very meager pvp and perma stealth nerf, absolutely huge pve nerf. So you will still be crying nerf after these nerfs.
I am excited for these changes to the Rogue class for PvP and PvE. I think fixing a bugged exploited class can be a good thing for the game. I do mainly PvP and of course the Perma needed to be fixed. It was really broke and never intended. It will be nice to only get 8 dagger now instead of 12 so all good changes. Here is the thing. I am not crying. I just like and enjoy the game and want it to be on a close to even playing field with no bugs and exploits. Rogue is the exploited bugged class and now its getting adjusted. I might just look to do the new content now and more dungeons with rogues hopefully filling there role better. PvE balancing is the toughest to do and rogues needed to be adjusted mainly for PvE not PvP. These changes are PvE based not PvP. Hopefully now the class balance in a dungeon is better and dungeons become more enjoyable some day as those are the major complaints of players.
Wanting rogues to be fixed and crying are 2 separate things. Players think every opinion is QQ and crying just like they think everything is pay 2 win. A opinion is a opinion. This game isn't pay 2 win. There is very little real QQ. Its just another phrase that is over used with learn 2 play. Think people on forums have a lack of vocabulary and don't know what to say so they select from a group of over used phrases. That is my Opinion.
I am excited for these changes to the Rogue class for PvP and PvE. I think fixing a bugged exploited class can be a good thing for the game. I do mainly PvP and of course the Perma needed to be fixed. It was really broke and never intended. It will be nice to only get 8 dagger now instead of 12 so all good changes. Here is the thing. I am not crying. I just like and enjoy the game and want it to be on a close to even playing field with no bugs and exploits. Rogue is the exploited bugged class and now its getting adjusted. I might just look to do the new content now and more dungeons with rogues hopefully filling there role better. PvE balancing is the toughest to do and rogues needed to be adjusted mainly for PvE not PvP. These changes are PvE based not PvP. Hopefully now the class balance in a dungeon is better and dungeons become more enjoyable some day as those are the major complaints of players.
Wanting rogues to be fixed and crying are 2 separate things. Players think every opinion is QQ and crying just like they think everything is pay 2 win. A opinion is a opinion. This game isn't pay 2 win. There is very little real QQ. Its just another phrase that is over used with learn 2 play. Think people on forums have a lack of vocabulary and don't know what to say so they select from a group of over used phrases. That is my Opinion.
TR is neither bugged nor "exploited." Since you have said that you leave any PvP match with stealthy rogues, you're effectively saying "I do not not know how to counter this and rather than learning I will quit." Since you say that you play a GF, I find this quite surprising since it is very easy for a GF to not only counter the TR's attacks but defeat them in short order. If you would like, I will once again quite happily post ways in which a GF can take down a TR in PvP. Rogues are not broken, and it unfortunate that people who do not play them and who actively avoid them constantly complain about them.
These changes that you seem so enamored of so far seem to have a negative effect on PvE on the test server and not a positive one. They are excessive and are another round of unfairly penalizing the only Striker class in the game. The destruction of Lurker's Assault as a viable daily is particularly harmful, and the massive decrease in stealth means that rogues are now a class with no means of mitigation yet need to stay in close combat - since they now have fewer daggers to throw. The Daggermaster may become a viable option since the at-will seems to be quite powerful unless of course it is slower than Gloaming Cut.
Once again, "Learn to Play" is in many cases a valid critique. When people complain about being one-shotted in PvP, it is in my experience not because the person who one-shotted them is playing an OP class, but because the person who was one-shotted wasn't playing very well or intelligently. Such as a CW who just stands there flinging magic missiles when a TR goes into stealth in from of him or the GF who doesn't bother to block in a 3 on 1 scenario.
The right to command is earned through duty, the privilege of rank is service.
Yey for TR nerfs! Tired of being oneshotted and unable to hit them, they even tank bosses in epic dungeons, I mean wtf. Good job cryptic! Also, the CW changes are much appreciated.
Nice try but I got a rogue myself.
Lurker Assault is what make rogue able to OS people, if they got vorpal. So of course the LA nerf will have an impact on pvp.
As a cleric I'm used to nerfs you know. Adapt.
Rogue can no longer solo boss in 10mins ? Yeah well now it will take 20mins or a second dps on boss. Not a big deal.
Don't try to pretend that you are worried about PVE, that's too funny. It's clear that you are whining because your PVP experience will go from OS to struggling like others.
Struggling like others? Struggling like the CWs that OS with Ice Knife? Struggling like the GFs that perma down you? Struggling like the GWFs that can hit there regen and tank a 5v1 for days? Im sorry the only class that is "struggling" in pvp is the DC.
TR is neither bugged nor "exploited." Since you have said that you leave any PvP match with stealthy rogues, you're effectively saying "I do not not know how to counter this and rather than learning I will quit." Since you say that you play a GF, I find this quite surprising since it is very easy for a GF to not only counter the TR's attacks but defeat them in short order. If you would like, I will once again quite happily post ways in which a GF can take down a TR in PvP. Rogues are not broken, and it unfortunate that people who do not play them and who actively avoid them constantly complain about them.
These changes that you seem so enamored of so far seem to have a negative effect on PvE on the test server and not a positive one. They are excessive and are another round of unfairly penalizing the only Striker class in the game. The destruction of Lurker's Assault as a viable daily is particularly harmful, and the massive decrease in stealth means that rogues are now a class with no means of mitigation yet need to stay in close combat - since they now have fewer daggers to throw. The Daggermaster may become a viable option since the at-will seems to be quite powerful unless of course it is slower than Gloaming Cut.
Once again, "Learn to Play" is in many cases a valid critique. When people complain about being one-shotted in PvP, it is in my experience not because the person who one-shotted them is playing an OP class, but because the person who was one-shotted wasn't playing very well or intelligently. Such as a CW who just stands there flinging magic missiles when a TR goes into stealth in from of him or the GF who doesn't bother to block in a 3 on 1 scenario.
Its not about countering a perma stealth which I did by /leaving in protest and getting as many as I could to do the same. Why cause its broke and its not a part of the game or should be a part of any game. If a mechanic that gets exploited is broke it needs a fix and by leaving the match in protest till it does seems like the perfect hard counter to the problem. I enjoy the game and other players should too and in order to do that rogues needed first not to be perma stealth and 2nd adjusted on some of there skills.
On the last part you make it sound as if a CW or DC have a chance to guard against being 1 shot by a rogue currently or taken from 100% life to zero while they have stealth. They don't have any def against it even if you gave them a higher tier of gear past T2 and that is a problem
Finally these changes are for the better of PvE mainly and look forward to trying some new dungeons and old ones now with better class balance.
Yey for TR nerfs! Tired of being oneshotted and unable to hit them, they even tank bosses in epic dungeons, I mean wtf. Good job cryptic! Also, the CW changes are much appreciated.
Just another happy player of 1,000's that are looking forward to the changes that will make this game better.
Its not about countering a perma stealth which I did by /leaving in protest and getting as many as I could to do the same. Why cause its broke and its not a part of the game or should be a part of any game. If a mechanic that gets exploited is broke it needs a fix and by leaving the match in protest till it does seems like the perfect hard counter to the problem. I enjoy the game and other players should too and in order to do that rogues needed first not to be perma stealth and 2nd adjusted on some of there skills.
On the last part you make it sound as if a CW or DC have a chance to guard against being 1 shot by a rogue currently or taken from 100% life to zero while they have stealth. They don't have any def against it even if you gave them a higher tier of gear past T2 and that is a problem
Finally these changes are for the better of PvE mainly and look forward to trying some new dungeons and old ones now with better class balance.
Sorry bro but leaving a game because you cant beat a class is not "hard countering" it. Its throwing a temper tantrum and crying until you get your way. These changes have drastic effects in PvE and is supposed to balance pvp which it does not. As ive said before, you will still be leaving matches cause you cant beat TRs and still be crying that they are OP. Please, sit down and let the adults talk.
Edit: So, your saying that Stealth is getting exploited and is broken? really? Your crying becasue a STEALTH based class uses there stealth in PvP? So basicly once these changes go live you will still be *****ing about stealth? By your logic next up on the chopping block is the whole stealth mechanic, it will soon be just a 2 second dissapearing trick that you cannot attack or use abilities while in. Is that what you would like to see?
Its not about countering a perma stealth which I did by /leaving in protest and getting as many as I could to do the same. Why cause its broke and its not a part of the game or should be a part of any game. If a mechanic that gets exploited is broke it needs a fix and by leaving the match in protest till it does seems like the perfect hard counter to the problem. I enjoy the game and other players should too and in order to do that rogues needed first not to be perma stealth and 2nd adjusted on some of there skills.
That's not a counter, it's a ragequit. Your ragequitting is a problem in PvP since it means you're leaving your team shorthanded. Even if you were the worst PvP'er in history, if nothing else you could have stood on a point or been one more target for the other team. It's like the kid who gets pick last and decides to take their ball and go home. In effect you're continuing to acknowledge that you do not know how to play against stealth TR's and have no interest in using any of the well-publicized tactics for how to do so. As a GF it is very, very easy - even if one is undergeared.
I've enjoyed the game just fine playing multiple classes without any need for rogues to be weakened. This will in fact lessen my enjoyment of the game. So if you actually care about the enjoyment of other players, then you wouldn't be a ragequitter and would care about how many players are upset by these changes since this will directly decrease their enjoyment of the game.
That being said, you haven't shown that anything is broken or exploited. Stealth as a mechanic is part of the game and was WAI. TR's have already had core skills (Sneak Attack - which could arguably make sense, Shocking Execution - no longer so shocking and not much of an execution) weakened, and with the additional weakening of skills results in breaking the class. LA is now shorter and much weaker. Stealth now vanishes in a single DF. This doesn't bring them into parity with other classes, but makes them weaker and less effective than other classes. On the Preview server my Defender GF is now much more powerful than my Striker TR, who seems as broken if not more broken than my DC.
The right to command is earned through duty, the privilege of rank is service.
Sorry bro but leaving a game because you cant beat a class is not "hard countering" it. Its throwing a temper tantrum and crying until you get your way. These changes have drastic effects in PvE and is supposed to balance pvp which it does not. As ive said before, you will still be leaving matches cause you cant beat TRs and still be crying that they are OP. Please, sit down and let the adults talk.
Why do you assume I can't beat a perma stealth the fact is I choose not to engage with a class that is bugged and broke and patiently waited for Cryptic to fix it. I think that is smart gaming. It was obviously bugged and now its getting fixed. I did nothing wrong but want to PvP with non exploited characters so by leaving a match to find a real PvP match is all I did. After the patch I just will have more PvP now there will be less exploits and bugs in game. So that makes me and a lot of players happy. Also the rejuv pot fix will be tremendously awesome. Perma healing from perma stealth was the lowest of lows a char could exploit.
Why do you assume I can't beat a perma stealth the fact is I choose not to engage with a class that is bugged and broke and patiently waited for Cryptic to fix it. I think that is smart gaming. It was obviously bugged and now its getting fixed. I did nothing wrong but want to PvP with non exploited characters so by leaving a match to find a real PvP match is all I did. After the patch I just will have more PvP now there will be less exploits and bugs in game. So that makes me and a lot of players happy. Also the rejuv pot fix will be tremendously awesome. Perma healing from perma stealth was the lowest of lows a char could exploit.
The fact that you think it is bugged is absolutely hilarious. It was WAI. You say perma healing from stealth is as low as it gets? How about Perma healing and tanking a 5v1 like GWFs? Thats not broken though right? because its your class doing it right? How about perma downing people like a GF can do...thats not broken though right? CWs One shotting TRs, other CWs and some DCs with Ice Knife while not even being able to see them sometimes isnt broken though right? Your view of "broken" is very misconstrued and bias and anything you say should not be taken seriously.
That's not a counter, it's a ragequit. Your ragequitting is a problem in PvP since it means you're leaving your team shorthanded. Even if you were the worst PvP'er in history, if nothing else you could have stood on a point or been one more target for the other team. It's like the kid who gets pick last and decides to take their ball and go home. In effect you're continuing to acknowledge that you do not know how to play against stealth TR's and have no interest in using any of the well-publicized tactics for how to do so. As a GF it is very, very easy - even if one is undergeared.
I've enjoyed the game just fine playing multiple classes without any need for rogues to be weakened. This will in fact lessen my enjoyment of the game. So if you actually care about the enjoyment of other players, then you wouldn't be a ragequitter and would care about how many players are upset by these changes since this will directly decrease their enjoyment of the game.
That being said, you haven't shown that anything is broken or exploited. Stealth as a mechanic is part of the game and was WAI. TR's have already had core skills (Sneak Attack - which could arguably make sense, Shocking Execution - no longer so shocking and not much of an execution) weakened, and with the additional weakening of skills results in breaking the class. LA is now shorter and much weaker. Stealth now vanishes in a single DF. This doesn't bring them into parity with other classes, but makes them weaker and less effective than other classes. On the Preview server my Defender GF is now much more powerful than my Striker TR, who seems as broken if not more broken than my DC.
I guess that's your opinion of rage quitting but I look at it as I am going to play legit and find legit matches and that is my opinion. So accept my opinion and ill accept yours. Rogues are being brought down from being way OP from the other classes to a lvl where now it is balanced. By no means is the class being broken but just brought in line with where the other classes currently stand. That is another one of my opinions and apparently many others feel the same way.
I think that players should stop assuming what the other player is or how good they are cause most of the time they are just wrong. I stand by all my opinions and there are some things I won't partake in the game. That anything I feel is bugged. Another example is Tene enchants I refuse to use them even if they are the foundation of builds and are broken in MY OPINION. and a lot of others agree. No one in my guild uses the broken enchants because we feel it is wrong and we want to play the game by those standards. You don't have to agree with it but that's just how we feel. Its not right.
and again you talk about that after the nerf youll have more fun pvping...but how does that make sense when that, what youre complaining about, didnt even get nerfed?
I guess that's your opinion of rage quitting but I look at it as I am going to play legit and find legit matches and that is my opinion. So accept my opinion and ill accept yours. Rogues are being brought down from being way OP from the other classes to a lvl where now it is balanced. By no means is the class being broken but just brought in line with where the other classes currently stand. That is another one of my opinions and apparently many others feel the same way.
I think that players should stop assuming what the other player is or how good they are cause most of the time they are just wrong. I stand by all my opinions and there are some things I won't partake in the game. That anything I feel is bugged. Another example is Tene enchants I refuse to use them even if they are the foundation of builds and are broken in MY OPINION. and a lot of others agree. No one in my guild uses the broken enchants because we feel it is wrong and we want to play the game by those standards. You don't have to agree with it but that's just how we feel. Its not right.
Leaving a game because you cant beat someone is Rage quiting that is not an opinion that is factual. Calling something Non-legit because you cant counter it does not make it broken it means you should learn how to counter it. I agree that Tene enchants are broken but to say stealth is broken on a class that stealth is there class mechanic is insanely stupid. Until you can detail out reasons why its broken and the things i have stated in my previous post are not then your "opinion" on this matter means nothing to me. The only reason youve stated so far is that "it balances the game". And you say "we" like you are speaking on behalf of an entire population or something. So far in everyone of these threads there are only 2 or 3 people each thread saying it is good and the rest are actually giving detailed reviews from the review server sayin it is terrible and giving us actual numbers to look at.
I guess that's your opinion of rage quitting but I look at it as I am going to play legit and find legit matches and that is my opinion. So accept my opinion and ill accept yours. Rogues are being brought down from being way OP from the other classes to a lvl where now it is balanced. By no means is the class being broken but just brought in line with where the other classes currently stand. That is another one of my opinions and apparently many others feel the same way.
I think that players should stop assuming what the other player is or how good they are cause most of the time they are just wrong. I stand by all my opinions and there are some things I won't partake in the game. That anything I feel is bugged. Another example is Tene enchants I refuse to use them even if they are the foundation of builds and are broken in MY OPINION. and a lot of others agree. No one in my guild uses the broken enchants because we feel it is wrong and we want to play the game by those standards. You don't have to agree with it but that's just how we feel. Its not right.
While I have no idea what your Neverwinter social network is, I will suggest that you stop using language like "many others feel the same way" since you have no statistics or other evidence to support that. Since your opinion seems to be that a legitimate build is illegitimate, it seems to come down to your deciding what is best for the game and community and in so doing you make an active choice to harm other players and minimize their enjoyment. At the very least, the selfish behavior you show in ragequitting PvP matches means that you're harming four other players who you were grouped with.
It's great that you stand by your opinions, but then you say things like this:
Just another happy player of 1,000's that are looking forward to the changes that will make this game better.
That seems to indicate that you think you have massive backing for your opinions, which is unfounded.
In context, here is what it comes down to. You are demanding that other classes be changed because you don't like them and won't play against them. This has nothing to do with anyone else besides you, and the fact that it already being widely panned by other players seems to be something you're either somehow unaware of or deliberately ignoring. TR's are not overpowered, bugged, or exploiting. If there are bugs, then they should be bugged reported and eventually the devs will take care of it. Please note that there has been no indication of any kind that anything you have been complaining about is bugged in any way, but things that are working as intended (WAI) that you seem to be unable to handle so you run away from it. That's your choice to do so, but your choices affect others.
The right to command is earned through duty, the privilege of rank is service.
I feel the same way sir. Pretty sure hes avoiding my examples cause he cant answer the questions since his only arguements are "i cant beat it, its broken" or "it balances the game" without any explanation and wants to say thats his opinion but cant elaborate on why he feels that way.
it is my OPINION that his opinion is born from hate and bias which is why he cant explain it. And until he elaborates on his then mine is factual.
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bpskibbenheimsMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 210Bounty Hunter
Look, I play MMO for a long time, I lost (and still lose) a lot of time of my life with this addiction, and always, it includes all games ranging from an MMO to card games played rogue. I'm new in this community and already inform you that I loved the dynamics and the game in itself, but to study my class (Pvp) realized that fashion was rather about the permanent, however very strange to see a rogue to throw daggers, and not be a melle role as ever. That I really do not understand .... and the fact of actually having a mechanical permanentimente to stay invisible, all right, but it is at least a form melle. The current profile of the rogue in NWN is a machine gun knives ... and I do not think a rogue to be a knife thrower, but a class that uses the stealth to have its advantages in combat.
Look, I play MMO for a long time, I lost (and still lose) a lot of time of my life with this addiction, and always, it includes all games ranging from an MMO to card games played rogue. I'm new in this community and already inform you that I loved the dynamics and the game in itself, but to study my class (Pvp) realized that fashion was rather about the permanent, however very strange to see a rogue to throw daggers, and not be a melle role as ever. That I really do not understand .... and the fact of actually having a mechanical permanentimente to stay invisible, all right, but it is at least a form melle. The current profile of the rogue in NWN is a machine gun knives ... and I do not think a rogue to be a knife thrower, but a class that uses the stealth to have its advantages in combat.
The problem your having is grasping the difference of a standard MMO rogue and a D&D rogue. D&D rogues were know for using xbows and throwing darts and daggers from the shadows. Also, only the current "perma stealth" builds really realies heavily on Cloud of Steal as any other rogues that dont use that build use it simply to dismount someone or as a quick finisher on someone running away.
The problem your having is grasping the difference of a standard MMO rogue and a D&D rogue. D&D rogues were know for using xbows and throwing darts and daggers from the shadows. Also, only the current "perma stealth" builds really realies heavily on Cloud of Steal as any other rogues that dont use that build use it simply to dismount someone or as a quick finisher on someone running away.
Thank you for your explanation friend! I really did not know this "senary" rogue in the world of D & D, mean that for everybody who plays D & D is normal being a ranged class?!
Thank you for your explanation friend! I really did not know this "senary" rogue in the world of D & D, mean that for everybody who plays D & D is normal being a ranged class?!
Not everyone, but rogues have the ability to do well in combat situations with many different styles of play. Theres nothing stopping someone from playing the traditional dagger wielding, backstabbing cunning rogue over the Xbow/throwing weapons style. In the FE(Forgotten Realms incase you didnt know) Rogues are just as good at both.
Leaving a game because you cant beat someone is Rage quiting that is not an opinion that is factual. Calling something Non-legit because you cant counter it does not make it broken it means you should learn how to counter it. I agree that Tene enchants are broken but to say stealth is broken on a class that stealth is there class mechanic is insanely stupid. Until you can detail out reasons why its broken and the things i have stated in my previous post are not then your "opinion" on this matter means nothing to me. The only reason youve stated so far is that "it balances the game". And you say "we" like you are speaking on behalf of an entire population or something. So far in everyone of these threads there are only 2 or 3 people each thread saying it is good and the rest are actually giving detailed reviews from the review server sayin it is terrible and giving us actual numbers to look at.
Rage quiting would imply that one I am angry and that I get soooo frustrated I rage and quit. I never have done that. But if it helps you sleep at night I guess say what you want. I counter the perma stealth in a protest by /leave it owns them all the time every time and gives them no glory. I started doing this and told everyone how to counter them till they get fixed and well it has worked. Now some exploits are getting corrected and that is my opinion. If you don't like how I handle a exploited bugged class why don't you rage about it.
Comments
W o w...
Wtf pwe. Just.. Wtf.
Now I wonder when they will tone down GF and GWF from GODLIKE to decent ?
But I can't help laughing at people crying about the Stealth build nerf, after spending months ruining the PVP experience of the other players, they now will have to adapt. Rejoice again that they did not change it so stealth is disabled as soon as you land your first blow, like in most games.
- DRAGON - ( Mehrea DC 13.1k ) - ( Volsung TR 11.7k )
you mad bro ?
- DRAGON - ( Mehrea DC 13.1k ) - ( Volsung TR 11.7k )
Do you know what the most amusing part is? Most of the whiners do not even know the rogue class well enough to realize these changes do almost nothing in pvp other than a minor change to perma stealthers. It does however gut the class in PVE. I will repeat that in case you did not understand... A very meager pvp and perma stealth nerf, absolutely huge pve nerf. So you will still be crying nerf after these nerfs.
Well the key is you should be able to accomplish that on any toon. If you feel that is only capable on a rogue then that could be why there fixing it. D2 great game you could play the AH on D3 that's what I do now in spare time.
Great points on the rogue. Now the rogue is brought down to the other classes abilities some in line with GF,GWF,DC,CW. Now the rogue is on a more even playing field. GF needs no toning down and is now closer to being balanced with a rogue after these adjustments. Only thing a GF needs is more Def and block buffs. GWF I think sentinel should be changed and they should get more offensive power. Only thing I see wrong there. There was only 1 class that was beyond godlike and that's a rogue now its getting pretty balanced.
Nice try but I got a rogue myself.
Lurker Assault is what make rogue able to OS people, if they got vorpal. So of course the LA nerf will have an impact on pvp.
As a cleric I'm used to nerfs you know. Adapt.
Rogue can no longer solo boss in 10mins ? Yeah well now it will take 20mins or a second dps on boss. Not a big deal.
Don't try to pretend that you are worried about PVE, that's too funny. It's clear that you are whining because your PVP experience will go from OS to struggling like others.
- DRAGON - ( Mehrea DC 13.1k ) - ( Volsung TR 11.7k )
I am excited for these changes to the Rogue class for PvP and PvE. I think fixing a bugged exploited class can be a good thing for the game. I do mainly PvP and of course the Perma needed to be fixed. It was really broke and never intended. It will be nice to only get 8 dagger now instead of 12 so all good changes. Here is the thing. I am not crying. I just like and enjoy the game and want it to be on a close to even playing field with no bugs and exploits. Rogue is the exploited bugged class and now its getting adjusted. I might just look to do the new content now and more dungeons with rogues hopefully filling there role better. PvE balancing is the toughest to do and rogues needed to be adjusted mainly for PvE not PvP. These changes are PvE based not PvP. Hopefully now the class balance in a dungeon is better and dungeons become more enjoyable some day as those are the major complaints of players.
Wanting rogues to be fixed and crying are 2 separate things. Players think every opinion is QQ and crying just like they think everything is pay 2 win. A opinion is a opinion. This game isn't pay 2 win. There is very little real QQ. Its just another phrase that is over used with learn 2 play. Think people on forums have a lack of vocabulary and don't know what to say so they select from a group of over used phrases. That is my Opinion.
TR is neither bugged nor "exploited." Since you have said that you leave any PvP match with stealthy rogues, you're effectively saying "I do not not know how to counter this and rather than learning I will quit." Since you say that you play a GF, I find this quite surprising since it is very easy for a GF to not only counter the TR's attacks but defeat them in short order. If you would like, I will once again quite happily post ways in which a GF can take down a TR in PvP. Rogues are not broken, and it unfortunate that people who do not play them and who actively avoid them constantly complain about them.
These changes that you seem so enamored of so far seem to have a negative effect on PvE on the test server and not a positive one. They are excessive and are another round of unfairly penalizing the only Striker class in the game. The destruction of Lurker's Assault as a viable daily is particularly harmful, and the massive decrease in stealth means that rogues are now a class with no means of mitigation yet need to stay in close combat - since they now have fewer daggers to throw. The Daggermaster may become a viable option since the at-will seems to be quite powerful unless of course it is slower than Gloaming Cut.
Once again, "Learn to Play" is in many cases a valid critique. When people complain about being one-shotted in PvP, it is in my experience not because the person who one-shotted them is playing an OP class, but because the person who was one-shotted wasn't playing very well or intelligently. Such as a CW who just stands there flinging magic missiles when a TR goes into stealth in from of him or the GF who doesn't bother to block in a 3 on 1 scenario.
Struggling like others? Struggling like the CWs that OS with Ice Knife? Struggling like the GFs that perma down you? Struggling like the GWFs that can hit there regen and tank a 5v1 for days? Im sorry the only class that is "struggling" in pvp is the DC.
Its not about countering a perma stealth which I did by /leaving in protest and getting as many as I could to do the same. Why cause its broke and its not a part of the game or should be a part of any game. If a mechanic that gets exploited is broke it needs a fix and by leaving the match in protest till it does seems like the perfect hard counter to the problem. I enjoy the game and other players should too and in order to do that rogues needed first not to be perma stealth and 2nd adjusted on some of there skills.
On the last part you make it sound as if a CW or DC have a chance to guard against being 1 shot by a rogue currently or taken from 100% life to zero while they have stealth. They don't have any def against it even if you gave them a higher tier of gear past T2 and that is a problem
Finally these changes are for the better of PvE mainly and look forward to trying some new dungeons and old ones now with better class balance.
Just another happy player of 1,000's that are looking forward to the changes that will make this game better.
Sorry bro but leaving a game because you cant beat a class is not "hard countering" it. Its throwing a temper tantrum and crying until you get your way. These changes have drastic effects in PvE and is supposed to balance pvp which it does not. As ive said before, you will still be leaving matches cause you cant beat TRs and still be crying that they are OP. Please, sit down and let the adults talk.
Edit: So, your saying that Stealth is getting exploited and is broken? really? Your crying becasue a STEALTH based class uses there stealth in PvP? So basicly once these changes go live you will still be *****ing about stealth? By your logic next up on the chopping block is the whole stealth mechanic, it will soon be just a 2 second dissapearing trick that you cannot attack or use abilities while in. Is that what you would like to see?
That's not a counter, it's a ragequit. Your ragequitting is a problem in PvP since it means you're leaving your team shorthanded. Even if you were the worst PvP'er in history, if nothing else you could have stood on a point or been one more target for the other team. It's like the kid who gets pick last and decides to take their ball and go home. In effect you're continuing to acknowledge that you do not know how to play against stealth TR's and have no interest in using any of the well-publicized tactics for how to do so. As a GF it is very, very easy - even if one is undergeared.
I've enjoyed the game just fine playing multiple classes without any need for rogues to be weakened. This will in fact lessen my enjoyment of the game. So if you actually care about the enjoyment of other players, then you wouldn't be a ragequitter and would care about how many players are upset by these changes since this will directly decrease their enjoyment of the game.
That being said, you haven't shown that anything is broken or exploited. Stealth as a mechanic is part of the game and was WAI. TR's have already had core skills (Sneak Attack - which could arguably make sense, Shocking Execution - no longer so shocking and not much of an execution) weakened, and with the additional weakening of skills results in breaking the class. LA is now shorter and much weaker. Stealth now vanishes in a single DF. This doesn't bring them into parity with other classes, but makes them weaker and less effective than other classes. On the Preview server my Defender GF is now much more powerful than my Striker TR, who seems as broken if not more broken than my DC.
Why do you assume I can't beat a perma stealth the fact is I choose not to engage with a class that is bugged and broke and patiently waited for Cryptic to fix it. I think that is smart gaming. It was obviously bugged and now its getting fixed. I did nothing wrong but want to PvP with non exploited characters so by leaving a match to find a real PvP match is all I did. After the patch I just will have more PvP now there will be less exploits and bugs in game. So that makes me and a lot of players happy. Also the rejuv pot fix will be tremendously awesome. Perma healing from perma stealth was the lowest of lows a char could exploit.
The fact that you think it is bugged is absolutely hilarious. It was WAI. You say perma healing from stealth is as low as it gets? How about Perma healing and tanking a 5v1 like GWFs? Thats not broken though right? because its your class doing it right? How about perma downing people like a GF can do...thats not broken though right? CWs One shotting TRs, other CWs and some DCs with Ice Knife while not even being able to see them sometimes isnt broken though right? Your view of "broken" is very misconstrued and bias and anything you say should not be taken seriously.
I guess that's your opinion of rage quitting but I look at it as I am going to play legit and find legit matches and that is my opinion. So accept my opinion and ill accept yours. Rogues are being brought down from being way OP from the other classes to a lvl where now it is balanced. By no means is the class being broken but just brought in line with where the other classes currently stand. That is another one of my opinions and apparently many others feel the same way.
I think that players should stop assuming what the other player is or how good they are cause most of the time they are just wrong. I stand by all my opinions and there are some things I won't partake in the game. That anything I feel is bugged. Another example is Tene enchants I refuse to use them even if they are the foundation of builds and are broken in MY OPINION. and a lot of others agree. No one in my guild uses the broken enchants because we feel it is wrong and we want to play the game by those standards. You don't have to agree with it but that's just how we feel. Its not right.
Did Huckafive get banned or something ?
Leaving a game because you cant beat someone is Rage quiting that is not an opinion that is factual. Calling something Non-legit because you cant counter it does not make it broken it means you should learn how to counter it. I agree that Tene enchants are broken but to say stealth is broken on a class that stealth is there class mechanic is insanely stupid. Until you can detail out reasons why its broken and the things i have stated in my previous post are not then your "opinion" on this matter means nothing to me. The only reason youve stated so far is that "it balances the game". And you say "we" like you are speaking on behalf of an entire population or something. So far in everyone of these threads there are only 2 or 3 people each thread saying it is good and the rest are actually giving detailed reviews from the review server sayin it is terrible and giving us actual numbers to look at.
While I have no idea what your Neverwinter social network is, I will suggest that you stop using language like "many others feel the same way" since you have no statistics or other evidence to support that. Since your opinion seems to be that a legitimate build is illegitimate, it seems to come down to your deciding what is best for the game and community and in so doing you make an active choice to harm other players and minimize their enjoyment. At the very least, the selfish behavior you show in ragequitting PvP matches means that you're harming four other players who you were grouped with.
It's great that you stand by your opinions, but then you say things like this:
That seems to indicate that you think you have massive backing for your opinions, which is unfounded.
In context, here is what it comes down to. You are demanding that other classes be changed because you don't like them and won't play against them. This has nothing to do with anyone else besides you, and the fact that it already being widely panned by other players seems to be something you're either somehow unaware of or deliberately ignoring. TR's are not overpowered, bugged, or exploiting. If there are bugs, then they should be bugged reported and eventually the devs will take care of it. Please note that there has been no indication of any kind that anything you have been complaining about is bugged in any way, but things that are working as intended (WAI) that you seem to be unable to handle so you run away from it. That's your choice to do so, but your choices affect others.
I feel the same way sir. Pretty sure hes avoiding my examples cause he cant answer the questions since his only arguements are "i cant beat it, its broken" or "it balances the game" without any explanation and wants to say thats his opinion but cant elaborate on why he feels that way.
it is my OPINION that his opinion is born from hate and bias which is why he cant explain it. And until he elaborates on his then mine is factual.
It seems he has...lol
Only momentarily I suspect lol
The problem your having is grasping the difference of a standard MMO rogue and a D&D rogue. D&D rogues were know for using xbows and throwing darts and daggers from the shadows. Also, only the current "perma stealth" builds really realies heavily on Cloud of Steal as any other rogues that dont use that build use it simply to dismount someone or as a quick finisher on someone running away.
Thank you for your explanation friend! I really did not know this "senary" rogue in the world of D & D, mean that for everybody who plays D & D is normal being a ranged class?!
Not everyone, but rogues have the ability to do well in combat situations with many different styles of play. Theres nothing stopping someone from playing the traditional dagger wielding, backstabbing cunning rogue over the Xbow/throwing weapons style. In the FE(Forgotten Realms incase you didnt know) Rogues are just as good at both.
Rage quiting would imply that one I am angry and that I get soooo frustrated I rage and quit. I never have done that. But if it helps you sleep at night I guess say what you want. I counter the perma stealth in a protest by /leave it owns them all the time every time and gives them no glory. I started doing this and told everyone how to counter them till they get fixed and well it has worked. Now some exploits are getting corrected and that is my opinion. If you don't like how I handle a exploited bugged class why don't you rage about it.