Hmmm you have a point maybe I will workout early today. I just am enjoying all the feed back and drinking my coffee. These changes are exciting for the game can you feel the excitement.
Hmm maybe you don't do a lot of damage but there are a ton of rogues that do. 12k with SE or impact shot which is it. I have seen a rogue hitting for 30k impact on a dummy so what are you talking about.
Do you understand how rogues function in PvE? Your comments largely target PvP; I am a PvE-only gamer. I have invested much time, effort and cash into building up my character, and this nurf drastically alters the way a rogue functions in PvE. Either you don't understand the rotation and/or math behind said rotation of a PvE rogue, and therefore the PvE implications of this nurf are lost on you; or you simply have no interest in PvE.
As a PvE gamer, PvP balance changes that alter effectiveness and desirability of my class in PvE are infuriating. This is not class balance; it's poor development.
---"Old age and deviousness will always overcome youth and enthusiasm." Visit Eminence Gaming | Dragon's All Adult, "Casually Hardcore" PvE/PvP Guild | Now Recruiting Exceptional Applicants
Hmmm you have a point maybe I will workout early today. I just am enjoying all the feed back and drinking my coffee. These changes are exciting for the game can you feel the excitement.
Hmm maybe you don't do a lot of damage but there are a ton of rogues that do. 12k with SE or impact shot which is it. I have seen a rogue hitting for 30k impact on a dummy so what are you talking about.
For sure, when the paradigm gets shifted exciting things happen.
30k impact on a dummy is nuts I would love to be that rogue. If a rogue has bis with rank 9+ and perfect vorpal i don't doubt such insane numbers, but the average player has a hard time affording even a normal vorpal.
I duno man I don't think this will change much. Personally with lurkers I could take out three blue geared players and maybe two equally geared cloth wearers. The rank9+ and perfect vorpal players will still do what they do just maybe one person less.
It really hurts the green blue and t1 rogues who needed the 60% damage to be competitive. Not to mention now with even less stealth they will be ducks in open water.
Cloud of Steel: This power now has 8 maximum charges, down from 12.
Duelist's Flurry: When the bleed portion of this power is at 10 stacks, further applications now recalculate damage in addition to refreshing the duration.
Feat: Speed Swindle: This feat is now properly considered a Control effect for calculations and procs.
Lurker's Assault: This power now grants 5 / 10 / 15% bonus Crit Severity, instead of 20 / 40 / 60% bonus damage.
Stealth: At-will powers used from stealth will now partially deplete the Stealth Meter.
About time! Seriously anyone who thought that being able to perma-stealth kill people was legit makes me laugh...
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borgued3Member, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 150Bounty Hunter
Hmmm you have a point maybe I will workout early today. I just am enjoying all the feed back and drinking my coffee. These changes are exciting for the game can you feel the excitement.
Hmm maybe you don't do a lot of damage but there are a ton of rogues that do. 12k with SE or impact shot which is it. I have seen a rogue hitting for 30k impact on a dummy so what are you talking about.
lol dude you're complaining about Impact Shot....as a tank?!! When will you be happy? when you have more dps, survivability and stealth than a trickster rogue. They can nerf TR to the floor in every patch from now until christmas and i'm sure you'll still find something to complain about. You are wayyyy t0o ignorant about TRs to be complaining this much.
good thing is that with the next paragon path we get powers that are all either ranged or have a ranged attack as secondary effect and passives to increase the ranged damage
explaining abom to you is pretty simple. He is just troll. He wont try to make sense on any of his posts or provide even a bit of insight as long as they focus his deepest desire, that is to buff his OP class while nerfing everything that can beat it.
Ironically he is smiling ear to ear with this nerf as if it means absolute victory for him on pvp, when it actually will mean that the pve side of the rogues got nerfed and the pvp will still roll over him, but given he probably doesnt even read what he post, this subtle message probably never made it to his brain, and when the nerf arrives he will just be back to ask nerfs again.
Easy as that.
I am looking forward to the Rogue changes for PvE as well. This balancing should be beneficial for dungeons and the game. I think there really was only 1 broken and OP class now its getting fixed and brought in line with the other classes so this is good work by Cryptic. I always try to explain my post and my strong feelings behind them. I believe the fixes not nerfs make this game better and look forward to more content and patches. I always stand behind my opinions and views.
I am looking forward to the Rogue changes for PvE as well. This balancing should be beneficial for dungeons and the game. I think there really was only 1 broken and OP class now its getting fixed and brought in line with the other classes so this is good work by Cryptic. I always try to explain my post and my strong feelings behind them. I believe the fixes not nerfs make this game better and look forward to more content and patches. I always stand behind my opinions and views.
I got my TR in skulk\greater vorp\tenes\ regen rings and my gwf in titan\scrapper\greater thunder\tenes.... tr is cool and all but gwf is unkillable and with my 36k HP I do ~7k necrotic damage every 20 sec even if my encounter been dodged, oh and I always go to counter perma stealth TR's on my gwf cause they are useless, as soon as I got my slam up that ***** runs away faster that a fatso running towards candy shop, how about that? We already do 2 gf 2 gwf 1 DC\cw\tr premades, after the patch I will not take TR nor into pvp nor into dungeon. U'r clearly one of those 8k GS scrubs who get oneshoted in pvp all the time.
Carnage TR Dragon shard - retired? hell yea it's retired along with Nevewinter
I got my TR in skulk\greater vorp\tenes\ regen rings and my gwf in titan\scrapper\greater thunder\tenes.... tr is cool and all but gwf is unkillable and with my 36k HP I do ~7k necrotic damage every 20 sec even if my encounter been dodged, oh and I always go to counter perma stealth TR's on my gwf cause they are useless, as soon as I got my slam up that ***** runs away faster that a fatso running towards candy shop, how about that? We already do 2 gf 2 gwf 1 DC\cw\tr premades, after the patch I will not take TR nor into pvp nor into dungeon. U'r clearly one of those 8k GS scrubs who get oneshoted in pvp all the time.
LOL first off read my other post on using broken Tene's and I hope they make it where you can only wear 1 tene per character since it is bugged. If you like running bugged items and builds go for it just don't be upset when they are fixed.
My GS is way higher then most characters. The only person that knows my GS is Chuck Norris and when I told him he fainted.
Nops, u never once gave a logical feedback on anything. All your posts are: "this is broken, needs nerfs" and eventual begging that your already op class gets buffs.
If you arent a troll, you likelly are mentally challenged or just dont think before you type, but your posts are nothing but senseless rants on how something is broken and needs fixing, never pointing out any decent evidence (at least none that wasnt tossed back at your face by decent players).
And the proof that you dont even know what you are talking about is that you keep going on victory laps on TR forum as if we were mauled pvp wise by the nerfs, when in actuallity, the side that got beaten was pve, you will still get owned on pvp, it just wont be the perma build anymore, it will be the dps rogues and the new builds that will arrive. You know what you guys accomplished? You just shut down a creative build. But its not like it was necessary to lay down talentless scrubs that only know how to cry, it was just a way to keep rogues alive longer on pvp since usually when we nuke someone we appear with a target for his teammates, but now seems we will have to make little changes to rotation to at least be able to get away after leaving a blood pound where once was a player.
I honestly pity you man, your lack of insight makes me sad. You may have not noticed, but you dont even know what you are defending/attacking, you just go jaws snapping not realizing you are biting your own nuts off.
see? your posts are nothing but : "this is bugged, needs fix, bla bla"
well now you made me go fetch something to clean my screen, because i spilled my orange juice from laughter.
Ok what was broke. First off damage from stealth should break stealth it doesn't. Fix At wills now deplete stealth meter.
Dailys and damage is out of hand on a rogue. SE still needs to have it changed, Lurkers which was also fueling stealth builds aids in to much damage and now how been adjusted for a better PvE and PvP game play.
CoS Pretty OP making it 8 charges down from 12 was a great move.
Just be glad they left the OP impact shot alone.
Rogue have unlimted utility and damage and builds and ways to just exploit mechanics no other class does and Cryptic is making some nice changes to counter that and bring there damage and bugged mechanics in line with the other classes.
I thought the GS comment was funny I am happy I made you laugh. Seriously though I run rank 8+ enchants a greater vorpal and regen arm pen build with 23% arm pen on my GF. I do just fine in the high damage crit department. I do need a perfect vorpal though because I would like to beat my crit record of 28k that I had on a cleric the other day.
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borgued3Member, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 150Bounty Hunter
Ok what was broke. First off damage from stealth should break stealth it doesn't. Fix At wills now deplete stealth meter.
Dailys and damage is out of hand on a rogue. SE still needs to have it changed, Lurkers which was also fueling stealth builds aids in to much damage and now how been adjusted for a better PvE and PvP game play.
CoS Pretty OP making it 8 charges down from 12 was a great move.
Just be glad they left the OP impact shot alone.
Rogue have unlimted utility and damage and builds and ways to just exploit mechanics no other class does and Cryptic is making some nice changes to counter that and bring there damage and bugged mechanics in line with the other classes.
I thought the GS comment was funny I am happy I made you laugh. Seriously though I run rank 8+ enchants a greater vorpal and regen arm pen build with 23% arm pen on my GF. I do just fine in the high damage crit department. I do need a perfect vorpal though because I would like to beat my crit record of 28k that I had on a cleric the other day.
correcting you:
from stealth the only way a rogue could pull damage was getting risky on sly or DF (being the seccond really risky) OR with CoS that had 12 charges and then a long wait time untill you could pile that damage up, also while tossing CoS trogue is standing still looking foward, so imo he is pretty vulnerable then. Not to mention dodges or power rushes towards them when they are tossing knifes cuts the pile up damage (being the seccond because he has to run away from the charging player) and soaks the damage, but some people arent anywhere near as smart to pay attention to those details.
nerfing CoS to 8 isnt really nerfing, hardly i would land 12 knifes on someone before a dodge appears, and now they would have to wait even less to recharge since it went from 36 secs to 24 secs...not really a nerf imo and yet you seem quite happy that this happened.
the reason stealth would not break with at wills damage was exactly to make use of combat advantage on pve since any encounter would blow it off (save from the no damage b&s and shadow strike (very little damage)), and it was perfectly fine and very useful against bosses on pve...not so much now right?
LA? lol, it takes 1 repel from a CW or any sort of control to make it go away along with the ap you spent on it, the only practical use was on pve against bosses and on pvp when the person actually knew what he was doing ,and on pvp lets not forget we dont carry loads of dailies like a certain class that generates AP like crazy (yes i have a GF and i can give myself the luxury to burn dailies on mobs since i know i am secconds away to have another full ap bar). Now it is a DAILY that will give me what? a gap closer and 15% crit sev? I rather just use SE or bloodlust or whirlwind blades, at least they give decent damage and other effects that make it worthy to cast my AP on them.
And since you want to point so hard on rogues being broken, how about your statement that your GF (a TANK class) deal 28k on a crit? So you guys soak damage (even without your shield), regen like crazy, manage aggro, can close gaps from a mile away with your encounters, generate AP like bosses, can perma knockdown players AND to put a cherry on it, hit like trucks? And you expect to break that record still?
Enlighten me as to how your class is not broken and needs buffs (which you keep asking for)?
please man, do us a favor and stop, you already lost your fight a looooooong time ago, you just didnt realize it yet.
Better late than never, i will stop replying to you because i know it will be just words tossed to the wind.
Lol wow I never knew you were a GF. Are you seriously whining about TR's? for real man? You can nearly perma-prone, block 100% of incoming damage, and in your own words crit for 28k one shotting people. So TR's need nerf b/c they can simply one shot or kill while not taking damage, but you can survive enormous damage, have incredible cc, cancel any skill no matter how much damage via block, and still one shot people but its the TR thats op?
GF is the strongest class in PvP by leaps and bounds right now.
Guild Master of <Enemy Team>
We are definitely dominating, and we are always about to win.
Lol wow I never knew you were a GF. Are you seriously whining about TR's? for real man? You can nearly perma-prone, block 100% of incoming damage, and in your own words crit for 28k one shotting people. So TR's need nerf b/c they can simply one shot or kill while not taking damage, but you can survive enormous damage, have incredible cc, cancel any skill no matter how much damage via block, and still one shot people but its the TR thats op?
GF is the strongest class in PvP by leaps and bounds right now.
IDK, Sentinel Specc'ed GWF's are pretty dad gum uber too. They are as tanky as a GF, have turbo boost, self heal, ignore CC, take 4v1 and survive a good while, and can do a charged attack that knocks you prone... And can obtain 30K+ in hit points easily.
from stealth the only way a rogue could pull damage was getting risky on sly or DF (being the seccond really risky) OR with CoS that had 12 charges and then a long wait time untill you could pile that damage up, also while tossing CoS trogue is standing still looking foward, so imo he is pretty vulnerable then. Not to mention dodges or power rushes towards them when they are tossing knifes cuts the pile up damage (being the seccond because he has to run away from the charging player) and soaks the damage, but some people arent anywhere near as smart to pay attention to those details.
nerfing CoS to 8 isnt really nerfing, hardly i would land 12 knifes on someone before a dodge appears, and now they would have to wait even less to recharge since it went from 36 secs to 24 secs...not really a nerf imo and yet you seem quite happy that this happened.
the reason stealth would not break with at wills damage was exactly to make use of combat advantage on pve since any encounter would blow it off (save from the no damage b&s and shadow strike (very little damage)), and it was perfectly fine and very useful against bosses on pve...not so much now right?
LA? lol, it takes 1 repel from a CW or any sort of control to make it go away along with the ap you spent on it, the only practical use was on pve against bosses and on pvp when the person actually knew what he was doing ,and on pvp lets not forget we dont carry loads of dailies like a certain class that generates AP like crazy (yes i have a GF and i can give myself the luxury to burn dailies on mobs since i know i am secconds away to have another full ap bar). Now it is a DAILY that will give me what? a gap closer and 15% crit sev? I rather just use SE or bloodlust or whirlwind blades, at least they give decent damage and other effects that make it worthy to cast my AP on them.
And since you want to point so hard on rogues being broken, how about your statement that your GF (a TANK class) deal 28k on a crit? So you guys soak damage (even without your shield), regen like crazy, manage aggro, can close gaps from a mile away with your encounters, generate AP like bosses, can perma knockdown players AND to put a cherry on it, hit like trucks? And you expect to break that record still?
Enlighten me as to how your class is not broken and needs buffs (which you keep asking for)?
please man, do us a favor and stop, you already lost your fight a looooooong time ago, you just didnt realize it yet.
Better late than never, i will stop replying to you because i know it will be just words tossed to the wind.
There is no correcting me its my opinion and well a lot of players including Cryptic feel the rogue was way out of balance and saw that they needed huge changes. If you are correcting me that would mean I am wrong and you are right but that is not the case. You just want to stay bugged and overpowered which is bad for the game and its ok I understand where you are coming from. So I stand by what I said.
GF's aren't even the best tanks in the game and can use Def buffs as of now a Rogue can 1 shot the most def GF that's why rogues are broke and GF's aren't for one. I also don't consider my character a tank I find him to be more of a Dps and when I PvE my roll is to Dps even single target Dps on the boss. I invested everything into Dps arm pen, crit, greater vorpal so that will throw out some decent damage especially with knights challenge doing double damage. There really is no need for a tank in this game and PvE is pretty messed up so hopefully that changes. Every tank runs a Dps conquer build so that says that there is pretty much something wrong and defensive can use some buffs. I didn't ask for Dps buffs or PvP buffs I just was saying they are a weak Def class and I mean weak. So some buffs could be used in that department so they maybe some day can actually fulfill there roll as a tank class.
That is why GF's need Def buff's if you don't see it that way that is fine. So maybe rogues wont tank the boss hopefully in the future and a real tank will and there can be some good flow and great balance in dungeons with each class doing there respective roll.
IDK, Sentinel Specc'ed GWF's are pretty dad gum uber too. They are as tanky as a GF, have turbo boost, self heal, ignore CC, take 4v1 and survive a good while, and can do a charged attack that knocks you prone... And can obtain 30K+ in hit points easily.
Either way TR's have almost no chance vs. GOOD fighters. Fighter's are a TR's counter, TR is CW/DC counter, and CW is (to an extent) fighter counter. If anything fighters are the OP ones, but I guess it's just whoever cries the loudest that gets their way. Abomination has posted in pretty much every thread even remotely referring to TR's stealth mechanic. I sure hope cryptic notices the many forum posters that want to see a perma-stealth PvP fix that DOES NOT severely hamper PvE experience, and not be fooled by the 1-2 posters like abom that just post 30 times a day yelling about it.
Guild Master of <Enemy Team>
We are definitely dominating, and we are always about to win.
TBH, I was expecting a nerf to LB and/or Bait and Switch... I was not expecting a complete gutting of the class and those being left alone, but stealth mechanics getting nerfed as hard as they are will pretty much kills BnS. Anyway, its not worth frustrating myself over, when this goes live, I will walk away, somewhat grateful for the money I wont be spending on them as I had plan to stick with this game for at least a year. I was going to wait for warlocks, but I am not going to bother, because chances are they will be OP and get a mega nerf, as they don't playtest their own stuff well. I don't want to be in their beta greed mode.
Lol wow I never knew you were a GF. Are you seriously whining about TR's? for real man? You can nearly perma-prone, block 100% of incoming damage, and in your own words crit for 28k one shotting people. So TR's need nerf b/c they can simply one shot or kill while not taking damage, but you can survive enormous damage, have incredible cc, cancel any skill no matter how much damage via block, and still one shot people but its the TR thats op?
GF is the strongest class in PvP by leaps and bounds right now.
^ this..........
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ambisinisterrMember, Neverwinter ModeratorPosts: 10,462Community Moderator
edited July 2013
As this discussion continues please keep the Rules of Conduct in mind.
First and most importantlyrespect the opinions of others. Do not degrade another posters opinions because you do not agree with their opinion. Simply put treat others as you wish to be treated.
This includes calling any user a troll. Calling others trolls is trolling in and of itself.
Now since there seems to be confusion about what the word means to the Rules of Conduct:
No trolling, or flaming.
Any form of personal insult will not be tolerated. General rule of thumb: if you think that what you are about to post is insulting, don't post it.
Unless a person is insulting or disrespecting another person's opinions they are not trolling.
I want you guys to express your opinions but you have to keep the thread civil.
Stop with the insults and accusations. Express your opinions and do not degrade the opinions of others.
I mostly play a GF and a DC, and I must say that the nerf bat was simply too mutch. PErma stealth needed to be nerfed, the other stuff... sorry no. LA was ok, it is a rogue, it is supposed to be a 1v1 beast. Just remove the stealth bar regen from bait and switch, remove the extra stealth bar from pvp sets, and you have it! There was no need to nerf skills that are needed for PVE (I believe that there are people that play NWN pve).
I also have a 60 rogue that I use for farming doing some pvp's, but he is not perma-stealth, nor uses LA, so the change doesnt affect me.
If anything needs to be nerfed is stupid GFW sprint to the pot when they are close to be dead. Any smart/decently geared GWF will not die a single time in a pvp match, which lead me to the conclusion: please delete pots from pvp maps (so pve-specced DC's will become valuable again)
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fimconteMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited July 2013
Change LA: 15% dmg to players, 60% to mobs.
Revert DF nerfs.
Leave CoS consuming stealth bar in. Remove it from DF/SF.
Fans Glory to the Gladiators,
Gods Glory to the Heroes.
They should provide free Respec tokens for everyone like they did with the big balancing update because this will affect a large number of players.
Free respecs for rogues if it goes live is an idea but then again there will not be any rogues left to use them ok maybe a couple die hard pvp rogues but, the rest of them will quit or reroll.
By the way rogues GWF get your new daily as a 3 point option as a heroic feat that is active 100% of the time, yeah that's right it's not even paragon level and it's always active. Come to the dark side join the GWFs we are all you were accused of being and a bag of chips... plus a case of soda, and endless supply of cookies.
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kingculexMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
By the way rogues GWF get your new daily as a 3 point option as a heroic feat that is active 100% of the time, yeah that's right it's not even paragon level and it's always active. Come to the dark side join the GWFs we are all you were accused of being and a bag of chips... plus a case of soda, and endless supply of cookies.
Really? The devs are nerfing TRs and going to leave GWFs with that? This nerf seems even more insane and not well thought-out. Hopefully the devs listen to all the TRs upset about the supposed nerf and change their minds before making it live in the main game. It is like they are trying to make GWFs into tanks like GFs. Time to dig out my GWF which I have not played since before the *balancing* update.
Every class has advantages and disadvantages. Learn the disadvantages of you class to overcome them. Learn the advantages of your class and the disadvatages of other classes to use them in pvp to win.
There is no point to whine for nerfs because you win some and loose some. Crying just makes a player look like a crier and no one, especially the devs, should take them seriously. Have a nice day!:)
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kingculexMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
No dont change it. The river of tears must flow freely so you have to actually Lrn2play.
^This appears to be a poor attempt to troll and even the name appears to look like it was created for the purpose of trolling.
Honestly it is the ones that do not know how to play who were crying so much for TRs to be nerfed and who are celebrating it. This nerf will not be hurting my TR build as hard as the cookie cutter build that relies on stealth. The individuals who are crying for TRs to be nerfed will still be crying because they still are going to be killed by TRs. The river of tears has been flowing freely for sometime and will continue to do so.
Every class has advantages and disadvantages. Learn the disadvantages of you class to overcome them. Learn the advantages of your class and the disadvatages of other classes to use them in pvp to win.
There is no point to whine for nerfs because you win some and loose some. Crying just makes a player look like a crier and no one, especially the devs, should take them seriously. Have a nice day!:)
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kingculexMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Lol another rogue uses the lrn2play card. Can you not even attempt to be original
Seriously you guys just make me laugh.
You used it first before I even mentioned it. It appears you can not even be original at all. Here is a *HUG* because you were killed by a TR in PVP and will continue to be killed by TRs. Have a nice day.
Every class has advantages and disadvantages. Learn the disadvantages of you class to overcome them. Learn the advantages of your class and the disadvatages of other classes to use them in pvp to win.
There is no point to whine for nerfs because you win some and loose some. Crying just makes a player look like a crier and no one, especially the devs, should take them seriously. Have a nice day!:)
And since you want to point so hard on rogues being broken, how about your statement that your GF (a TANK class) deal 28k on a crit? So you guys soak damage (even without your shield), regen like crazy, manage aggro, can close gaps from a mile away with your encounters, generate AP like bosses, can perma knockdown players AND to put a cherry on it, hit like trucks? And you expect to break that record still?
Sorry but you are totally wrong.
A GF can do 28k crits, yes... every 30sec for 5secs (Knights Challenge...) and GFs have a maximum of 25% Crit Chance! Most GFs have something around 10% crit chance. In your scenario a GF must use knights challenge and has to hit critically with one of the two encounters which are left. And then? Cooldown of knights challenge.... LOL
Every 10th knight challenge may result in a devastating lucky hit...
Sorry but its frustrating to see all these stupid "woweowowowowo GF deals 28k damage!!!!"-Posts which are ignoring the reality. Knights challenge is bad in PvP and PvE because the targeted enemy is dealing double damage too! GF is able to do 28k crits? Well if you use it on a TR the TR will hit you with 40k or more. The chance for crits: GF 10%, TR 50%.
Its annoying to see all these kids which are just crying around because of big numbers while ignoring the context completely!
If you want people to stay for the match end even when you're sitting on a 600-10 score and you've decided to be ***-hats and spawn-camp, you need to give them a reason. Punishing them is not the answer. That's just pouring salt-acid into an already bleeding wound.
Except that GF can block 100% of that double damage (if the enemy is even standing, a good GF would have them prone), not to mention if you take trample the fallen and prone them before you knight's challenge + lunge it can hit for a lot more than 28k
Guild Master of <Enemy Team>
We are definitely dominating, and we are always about to win.
Comments
Do you understand how rogues function in PvE? Your comments largely target PvP; I am a PvE-only gamer. I have invested much time, effort and cash into building up my character, and this nurf drastically alters the way a rogue functions in PvE. Either you don't understand the rotation and/or math behind said rotation of a PvE rogue, and therefore the PvE implications of this nurf are lost on you; or you simply have no interest in PvE.
As a PvE gamer, PvP balance changes that alter effectiveness and desirability of my class in PvE are infuriating. This is not class balance; it's poor development.
Visit Eminence Gaming | Dragon's All Adult, "Casually Hardcore" PvE/PvP Guild | Now Recruiting Exceptional Applicants
For sure, when the paradigm gets shifted exciting things happen.
30k impact on a dummy is nuts I would love to be that rogue. If a rogue has bis with rank 9+ and perfect vorpal i don't doubt such insane numbers, but the average player has a hard time affording even a normal vorpal.
I duno man I don't think this will change much. Personally with lurkers I could take out three blue geared players and maybe two equally geared cloth wearers. The rank9+ and perfect vorpal players will still do what they do just maybe one person less.
It really hurts the green blue and t1 rogues who needed the 60% damage to be competitive. Not to mention now with even less stealth they will be ducks in open water.
About time! Seriously anyone who thought that being able to perma-stealth kill people was legit makes me laugh...
rogues will still murder nerf cryers, they just wont be using perma for that anymore, just wait and see.
lol dude you're complaining about Impact Shot....as a tank?!! When will you be happy? when you have more dps, survivability and stealth than a trickster rogue. They can nerf TR to the floor in every patch from now until christmas and i'm sure you'll still find something to complain about. You are wayyyy t0o ignorant about TRs to be complaining this much.
sigh....and someone told me not to feed him smh
so much for "rogues are melee only"
I am looking forward to the Rogue changes for PvE as well. This balancing should be beneficial for dungeons and the game. I think there really was only 1 broken and OP class now its getting fixed and brought in line with the other classes so this is good work by Cryptic. I always try to explain my post and my strong feelings behind them. I believe the fixes not nerfs make this game better and look forward to more content and patches. I always stand behind my opinions and views.
I got my TR in skulk\greater vorp\tenes\ regen rings and my gwf in titan\scrapper\greater thunder\tenes.... tr is cool and all but gwf is unkillable and with my 36k HP I do ~7k necrotic damage every 20 sec even if my encounter been dodged, oh and I always go to counter perma stealth TR's on my gwf cause they are useless, as soon as I got my slam up that ***** runs away faster that a fatso running towards candy shop, how about that?
Seze - Rogue - Necropolis -
LOL first off read my other post on using broken Tene's and I hope they make it where you can only wear 1 tene per character since it is bugged. If you like running bugged items and builds go for it just don't be upset when they are fixed.
My GS is way higher then most characters. The only person that knows my GS is Chuck Norris and when I told him he fainted.
Ok what was broke. First off damage from stealth should break stealth it doesn't. Fix At wills now deplete stealth meter.
Dailys and damage is out of hand on a rogue. SE still needs to have it changed, Lurkers which was also fueling stealth builds aids in to much damage and now how been adjusted for a better PvE and PvP game play.
CoS Pretty OP making it 8 charges down from 12 was a great move.
Just be glad they left the OP impact shot alone.
Rogue have unlimted utility and damage and builds and ways to just exploit mechanics no other class does and Cryptic is making some nice changes to counter that and bring there damage and bugged mechanics in line with the other classes.
I thought the GS comment was funny
correcting you:
from stealth the only way a rogue could pull damage was getting risky on sly or DF (being the seccond really risky) OR with CoS that had 12 charges and then a long wait time untill you could pile that damage up, also while tossing CoS trogue is standing still looking foward, so imo he is pretty vulnerable then. Not to mention dodges or power rushes towards them when they are tossing knifes cuts the pile up damage (being the seccond because he has to run away from the charging player) and soaks the damage, but some people arent anywhere near as smart to pay attention to those details.
nerfing CoS to 8 isnt really nerfing, hardly i would land 12 knifes on someone before a dodge appears, and now they would have to wait even less to recharge since it went from 36 secs to 24 secs...not really a nerf imo and yet you seem quite happy that this happened.
the reason stealth would not break with at wills damage was exactly to make use of combat advantage on pve since any encounter would blow it off (save from the no damage b&s and shadow strike (very little damage)), and it was perfectly fine and very useful against bosses on pve...not so much now right?
LA? lol, it takes 1 repel from a CW or any sort of control to make it go away along with the ap you spent on it, the only practical use was on pve against bosses and on pvp when the person actually knew what he was doing ,and on pvp lets not forget we dont carry loads of dailies like a certain class that generates AP like crazy (yes i have a GF and i can give myself the luxury to burn dailies on mobs since i know i am secconds away to have another full ap bar). Now it is a DAILY that will give me what? a gap closer and 15% crit sev? I rather just use SE or bloodlust or whirlwind blades, at least they give decent damage and other effects that make it worthy to cast my AP on them.
And since you want to point so hard on rogues being broken, how about your statement that your GF (a TANK class) deal 28k on a crit? So you guys soak damage (even without your shield), regen like crazy, manage aggro, can close gaps from a mile away with your encounters, generate AP like bosses, can perma knockdown players AND to put a cherry on it, hit like trucks? And you expect to break that record still?
Enlighten me as to how your class is not broken and needs buffs (which you keep asking for)?
please man, do us a favor and stop, you already lost your fight a looooooong time ago, you just didnt realize it yet.
Better late than never, i will stop replying to you because i know it will be just words tossed to the wind.
Lol wow I never knew you were a GF. Are you seriously whining about TR's? for real man? You can nearly perma-prone, block 100% of incoming damage, and in your own words crit for 28k one shotting people. So TR's need nerf b/c they can simply one shot or kill while not taking damage, but you can survive enormous damage, have incredible cc, cancel any skill no matter how much damage via block, and still one shot people but its the TR thats op?
GF is the strongest class in PvP by leaps and bounds right now.
We are definitely dominating, and we are always about to win.
IDK, Sentinel Specc'ed GWF's are pretty dad gum uber too. They are as tanky as a GF, have turbo boost, self heal, ignore CC, take 4v1 and survive a good while, and can do a charged attack that knocks you prone... And can obtain 30K+ in hit points easily.
There is no correcting me its my opinion and well a lot of players including Cryptic feel the rogue was way out of balance and saw that they needed huge changes. If you are correcting me that would mean I am wrong and you are right but that is not the case. You just want to stay bugged and overpowered which is bad for the game and its ok I understand where you are coming from. So I stand by what I said.
GF's aren't even the best tanks in the game and can use Def buffs as of now a Rogue can 1 shot the most def GF that's why rogues are broke and GF's aren't for one. I also don't consider my character a tank I find him to be more of a Dps and when I PvE my roll is to Dps even single target Dps on the boss. I invested everything into Dps arm pen, crit, greater vorpal so that will throw out some decent damage especially with knights challenge doing double damage. There really is no need for a tank in this game and PvE is pretty messed up so hopefully that changes. Every tank runs a Dps conquer build so that says that there is pretty much something wrong and defensive can use some buffs. I didn't ask for Dps buffs or PvP buffs I just was saying they are a weak Def class and I mean weak. So some buffs could be used in that department so they maybe some day can actually fulfill there roll as a tank class.
That is why GF's need Def buff's if you don't see it that way that is fine. So maybe rogues wont tank the boss hopefully in the future and a real tank will and there can be some good flow and great balance in dungeons with each class doing there respective roll.
Either way TR's have almost no chance vs. GOOD fighters. Fighter's are a TR's counter, TR is CW/DC counter, and CW is (to an extent) fighter counter. If anything fighters are the OP ones, but I guess it's just whoever cries the loudest that gets their way. Abomination has posted in pretty much every thread even remotely referring to TR's stealth mechanic. I sure hope cryptic notices the many forum posters that want to see a perma-stealth PvP fix that DOES NOT severely hamper PvE experience, and not be fooled by the 1-2 posters like abom that just post 30 times a day yelling about it.
We are definitely dominating, and we are always about to win.
Dummies don't hit back or have armor!
Pointless statement is pointless!
^ this..........
First and most importantly respect the opinions of others. Do not degrade another posters opinions because you do not agree with their opinion. Simply put treat others as you wish to be treated.
This includes calling any user a troll. Calling others trolls is trolling in and of itself.
Now since there seems to be confusion about what the word means to the Rules of Conduct:
Unless a person is insulting or disrespecting another person's opinions they are not trolling.
I want you guys to express your opinions but you have to keep the thread civil.
Stop with the insults and accusations. Express your opinions and do not degrade the opinions of others.
Feast of the Moon | Rising of the Dark | Shadow of the World | Everdark
I also have a 60 rogue that I use for farming doing some pvp's, but he is not perma-stealth, nor uses LA, so the change doesnt affect me.
If anything needs to be nerfed is stupid GFW sprint to the pot when they are close to be dead. Any smart/decently geared GWF will not die a single time in a pvp match, which lead me to the conclusion: please delete pots from pvp maps (so pve-specced DC's will become valuable again)
Revert DF nerfs.
Leave CoS consuming stealth bar in. Remove it from DF/SF.
Gods Glory to the Heroes.
TR:Anirul Corrino@Fimconte
GF:Irulan Corrino@Fimconte
Free respecs for rogues if it goes live is an idea but then again there will not be any rogues left to use them ok maybe a couple die hard pvp rogues but, the rest of them will quit or reroll.
By the way rogues GWF get your new daily as a 3 point option as a heroic feat that is active 100% of the time, yeah that's right it's not even paragon level and it's always active. Come to the dark side join the GWFs we are all you were accused of being and a bag of chips... plus a case of soda, and endless supply of cookies.
Really? The devs are nerfing TRs and going to leave GWFs with that? This nerf seems even more insane and not well thought-out. Hopefully the devs listen to all the TRs upset about the supposed nerf and change their minds before making it live in the main game. It is like they are trying to make GWFs into tanks like GFs. Time to dig out my GWF which I have not played since before the *balancing* update.
There is no point to whine for nerfs because you win some and loose some. Crying just makes a player look like a crier and no one, especially the devs, should take them seriously. Have a nice day!:)
^This appears to be a poor attempt to troll and even the name appears to look like it was created for the purpose of trolling.
Honestly it is the ones that do not know how to play who were crying so much for TRs to be nerfed and who are celebrating it. This nerf will not be hurting my TR build as hard as the cookie cutter build that relies on stealth. The individuals who are crying for TRs to be nerfed will still be crying because they still are going to be killed by TRs. The river of tears has been flowing freely for sometime and will continue to do so.
There is no point to whine for nerfs because you win some and loose some. Crying just makes a player look like a crier and no one, especially the devs, should take them seriously. Have a nice day!:)
You used it first before I even mentioned it. It appears you can not even be original at all. Here is a *HUG* because you were killed by a TR in PVP and will continue to be killed by TRs. Have a nice day.
There is no point to whine for nerfs because you win some and loose some. Crying just makes a player look like a crier and no one, especially the devs, should take them seriously. Have a nice day!:)
Sorry but you are totally wrong.
A GF can do 28k crits, yes... every 30sec for 5secs (Knights Challenge...) and GFs have a maximum of 25% Crit Chance! Most GFs have something around 10% crit chance. In your scenario a GF must use knights challenge and has to hit critically with one of the two encounters which are left. And then? Cooldown of knights challenge.... LOL
Every 10th knight challenge may result in a devastating lucky hit...
Sorry but its frustrating to see all these stupid "woweowowowowo GF deals 28k damage!!!!"-Posts which are ignoring the reality. Knights challenge is bad in PvP and PvE because the targeted enemy is dealing double damage too! GF is able to do 28k crits? Well if you use it on a TR the TR will hit you with 40k or more. The chance for crits: GF 10%, TR 50%.
Its annoying to see all these kids which are just crying around because of big numbers while ignoring the context completely!
And here is the reason:
jep, thats really annoying
esp when used to defend the nerf with statements like "TR crits for 30k all the time" and such nonsense
Except that GF can block 100% of that double damage (if the enemy is even standing, a good GF would have them prone), not to mention if you take trample the fallen and prone them before you knight's challenge + lunge it can hit for a lot more than 28k
We are definitely dominating, and we are always about to win.