so you nerf your human players instead of just changing a fictive number from 2000 to 1500 (or whatever, numbers are an example) and think thats better?
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kaiserschmarrnMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 390
edited July 2013
Just coming back from the Preview Shard: the new Lurker's Assault also had it's duration reduced from 10 seconds to something like 5. It lasts long enough for one Flurry. It's not mentioned in the patch notes, well now you know it.
0
pyroknight777Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 7Arc User
As for the rogue changes I am dancing for joy because those changes were desperately needed in PvP and I do mean desperately. Overall I don't think you'll notice huge issues in PvE based on what I read. The bulk of the changes will hurt perma-stealth builds but that build alone was pretty much a PvP only build and really wasn't that effective in PvE.
I am not saying it won't effect PvE but I'm hesitant to think it will do any massive changes to mechanics.
Actually,the permastealth build was REALLY effective in PvE since you won't lose health meaning you won't be in dire need for potions all the time. To be honest, the only time I use potions in the game is when I am against a boss and am really hurt. I also think that if they are going to go through with this change they MUST give Trickster Rogues a free respec ._. Ive had to pay for respecs twice!I don't like having to pay another time because they want to ruin the class T_T
_________
@pyroknight777 in the game ^_^ Don't worry if you see me stalking you...my characters are kind of "new" to social life...I mean how would you think a fire demon-turned hero would react to a girl if all he sees in hell are half-naked devilish women...
Really... change the mobs, to several dungeons, and to several type of monsters. When they could make changes to a single class?
How is that not wasting time, and development efforts? I'm not saying that changes were warranted, as I do not have the proper information, nor experience in the matter of development or proper playtime of the TR class. But what I do have is common sense.
To me the changes seem to be more targeted toward the pve crowd. A) The majority of people seem to play PVE, and leave pvp alone. In pve i was seeing less and less groups taking tanks and more and more TR's playing the hold off the boss role. Isn't this why changes were made to DC's?
To the pvp crowd i will add, balance will always seem unbalanced until you fight against another party with similar equipment/skill/team coordination. It's about the team in either type of play pvp or pve. I feel these changes were targeted toward that dynamic and not which class is OP or not.
The "waste of time" is nerfing at all in a game that has any focus on PVP whatsoever, because all that does is puts a new class at the top of the power ladder, and all the complaints start to be about that class rather than the class that just got nerfed. Rinse > repeat, ad nauseum for infinity. When talking about wasting people hours, class balance is the biggest resource sync.
Since people never admit they were outmatched skill/strategy wise, they will always blame it on class imbalance.
The "waste of time" is nerfing at all in a game that has any focus on PVP whatsoever, because all that does is puts a new class at the top of the power ladder, and all the complaints start to be about that class rather than the class that just got nerfed. Rinse > repeat, ad nauseum for infinity. When talking about wasting people hours, class balance is the biggest resource sync.
Since people never admit they were outmatched skill/strategy wise, they will always blame it on class imbalance.
Nobody from PWE/cryptic said they are thinking of nerfing because of pvp play, nor due the patch notes say anything about balance issues due to pvp play. Nor pve for that matter. All I am suggesting is to help people see another viewpoint on the matter. That perhaps this is due to things happening in pve. Heck maybe even both types of play. "shrugs"
Sure some have said there are other ways of fixing things pve, but who knows what all the entails. Who know what all is seen, and happens behind the scenes. Who here actually has the information in front of them to say, heck yeah sure there should/shouldnt be any changes?
So much crying on this thread over a stupid op class. I just wished they deleted rogues and put rangers in that spot lol
They will be selling Whiners pack in the zen market for a limited time it contains a free respec token, snot rags, tissues and 300k ad.:p
Queen of Dragon Server
Goddess Uniique, lvl 60 DC.
PinkSugar, lvl 60 CW.
Baby Cakes, lvl 60 GWF.
*******, lvl 60 TR.
Premium Juicebox, lvl 60 CW.
Pink Exxxtacy, Ranger There is NO pvp in Neverwinter.
So much crying on this thread over a stupid op class. I just wished they deleted rogues and put rangers in that spot lol
They will be selling Whiners pack in the zen market for a limited time it contains a free respec token, snot rags, tissues and 300k ad.:p
Pot, meet kettle, kettle, meet pot.
The crying was not started by the "stupid OP class", it was started by people that cant grasp simple team PvP mechanics, like it is in all MMOs with PvP. Everyone thinks PvP should be balanced around 1vs1, which isnt the case, especially in a game without W-PvP. So I suggest you go and pick up one of those "whiner packs" on the zen market, so you have them ready next time you wanna scream for a nerf.
Now the class takes a harsh beating (again) due to dev ignorance. They choose the easy way out when it comes to balancing, blatantly swinging the nerf hammer across the room hitting as much as they can. There are several simple solutions to fixing and balancing TRs and moving them from perma stealth.
Remove 4 set bonuses that buff stealth duration, currently with a spec, they buff stealth duration with 45%(!!!). This could easily be removed and compensated by another 4 set bonus. Along with the nerf bringing the ranged attack down to 8 daggers from 12 is a good starts. But nerfing LA, reducing thrown charges and forcing all at-wills to drain stealth feels a bit over the top. Why not gradually change the class, patch by patch and see how it turns out, instead of overnerfing in one go?
If you play a cleric, you will most likely whine again for the next class to get nerfed, instead of begging for buffs to your own. Soon we will sit there with the Devoted Greatweapon Trickster Control Guardian, which has 2 at-wills, 3 encounters, 2 dailies, 20 points worth of feats and 31 points worth of heroic feats, with zero choice for the player, just so balance is achieved.
Actually,the permastealth build was REALLY effective in PvE since you won't lose health meaning you won't be in dire need for potions all the time. To be honest, the only time I use potions in the game is when I am against a boss and am really hurt. I also think that if they are going to go through with this change they MUST give Trickster Rogues a free respec ._. Ive had to pay for respecs twice!I don't like having to pay another time because they want to ruin the class T_T
Another person who wants to respec a ruined class. The mind boggles.
0
l0kusMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 6Arc User
So much crying on this thread over a stupid op class. I just wished they deleted rogues and put rangers in that spot lol
They will be selling Whiners pack in the zen market for a limited time it contains a free respec token, snot rags, tissues and 300k ad.:p
it'll make no difference at all..you could just get stomped by rangers as well and then whine about it till the nerf bat
I have all classes fully levelled and maxed out all but the wizard who i am still working on for t2 armours.
But honestly, I ama killing machine in PVP with a rogue and can't do the same with any other class, no matter how hard you try.
So this is unbalanced, people roll rogue because they know it's silly dps and pve will suffer because pvp is almost <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> at the moment.
Pvp is what ruined the class, how else can they address it? Obviously a bit OP.
But i have no solution on how else they can fix the rogue, so this patch will have to do for now..
As for non-tradeable seal items, well it's full on stupid, what more can u say.
My Web: http://www.symonator.net
Toons:
New: CW Level 60
GF = Level 60
DC = Level 60
TR = Level 60
I have all classes fully levelled and maxed out all but the wizard who i am still working on for t2 armours.
But honestly, I ama killing machine in PVP with a rogue and can't do the same with any other class, no matter how hard you try.
So this is unbalanced, people roll rogue because they know it's silly dps and pve will suffer because pvp is almost <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> at the moment.
Pvp is what ruined the class, how else can they address it? Obviously a bit OP.
But i have no solution on how else they can fix the rogue, so this patch will have to do for now..
As for non-tradeable seal items, well it's full on stupid, what more can u say.
Yes that is the case- At level 60.
pre-level 60, everything is quite balanced alot better.
Pvp at the level cap is the problem. Not the class.
0
mysticmarksMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 117Arc User
edited July 2013
TOO MUCH. Permastealth wasn't the intent of the skill. I understand that, but taking cloud of steel from 12 to 8 is too much. 10 would have been fine, but it doesn't regen fast enough to make 8 useful, nor will you stack enough damage to make good use of the skill. I don't have the perm stealth, but I rely heavily on the cloud of steel to offensively function. I've spent 2 weeks working on my rogue, and now you're destroying the class for many. Again PWE is <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> up, and you're taking Cryptic's reputation with you. My main Cleric already suffered at the last changes. With all the binding of equipment, what will even be auctionable?! Don't call it Free to play; it's now pay to win. You can forget sales margins, because sales will be marginal. I will NOT cash shop again if you continue this process of reduction. How about some real effort on fixing serious issues such as broken dungeons or the lack of creative boss fights? Adds, adds, more adds; Suck in, cone of damage. Really?! Did you even read the monster manuals?
Sometimes you're your own best teacher. ~Me
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
The crying was not started by the "stupid OP class", it was started by people that cant grasp simple team PvP mechanics, like it is in all MMOs with PvP.
Currently we only see some (not all of them!) rogues crying and proclaiming the end to the game because of the small patch. They probably failed to grasp simple PvP feature called "balancing", which appears in every other MMO with PvP.
TBH they can delete rogues from the database I just want more classes. It's so much stuff they can put in the game if I was a dev I would go through the 4th edition and blow so many minds. You don't even have to use exactly what they have you can mix it up or create new never used dnd stuff, the possibilities are endless.
Pls somebody send the dev's a copy of dnd or a wiki link.
Queen of Dragon Server
Goddess Uniique, lvl 60 DC.
PinkSugar, lvl 60 CW.
Baby Cakes, lvl 60 GWF.
*******, lvl 60 TR.
Premium Juicebox, lvl 60 CW.
Pink Exxxtacy, Ranger There is NO pvp in Neverwinter.
TBH they can delete rogues from the database I just want more classes. It's so much stuff they can put in the game if I was a dev I would go through the 4th edition and blow so many minds. You don't even have to use exactly what they have you can mix it up or create new never used dnd stuff, the possibilities are endless.
Pls somebody send the dev's a copy of dnd or a wiki link.
If 4th Edition blows your mind with its feebled dribblings then you should take a look at any previous incarnations of D&D where classes weren't laid out or decided for you like your clothes as a child..
BUT if you want to do away with Rogues from a D&D game then I suggest you pack your bags and move on as Rogues/Thieves have been a part of D&D longer than you've been on the earth judging by your pic..
If 4th Edition blows your mind with its feebled dribblings then you should take a look at any previous incarnations of D&D where classes weren't laid out or decided for you like your clothes as a child..
BUT if you want to do away with Rogues from a D&D game then I suggest you pack your bags and move on as Rogues/Thieves have been a part of D&D longer than you've been on the earth judging by your pic..
I think it was too complicated so they dumbed it down and simplified it for the masses but I could be wrong. And I didn't know dnd was over 20yrs old.
Queen of Dragon Server
Goddess Uniique, lvl 60 DC.
PinkSugar, lvl 60 CW.
Baby Cakes, lvl 60 GWF.
*******, lvl 60 TR.
Premium Juicebox, lvl 60 CW.
Pink Exxxtacy, Ranger There is NO pvp in Neverwinter.
1) TR nerf makes them worst class in pvp. u can no longer start DF in stealth then jump on ur target and finish with lash etc etc etc.
top gear gf\gwf vs same TR 80% of the time gf\gwf wins now, after the patch there will be no point even starting a fight against one since it's 100% fail.
2) full pve TRs have LA up every ~18 seconds, with this nerf TR got 60% dmg nerf 70% of the pve time. Now renegade vorpal crit CW will do more ST dmg then TR.
Seems like a really odd change since the gripe I kept reading about with rogues was the becoming invisible and using the ranged attacks. Does this address that even?
I will admit If I were a developer I would probably make sweeping changes to a class just so I could read the reaction of the player base. You know the Developers have to get a kick out of some of the stuff they read on these forums when they make changes, and players go ape spit about them. Though I have learned not to take games so seriously over the years.
Life is a dream for the wise, a game for the fool, a comedy for the rich, a tragedy for the poor.
~Sholom Aleichem
So wait, what are we supposed to do as rogues now? Stand around and watch the fights others are in? It really doesn't sound like we'll be able to do much, but having a fighter class that can block *everything* from *any* direction is not considered "overpowered"? lmao! (before you say it.... yeah, I know, I must suck at playing)
I plan to get setup on the preview server in the morning. I have hope we'll be able to adapt but I'd also like to see these changes for myself before I pass full judgement.
I too call for a free re-spec token for all existing Rogues when this patch goes into effect, it would only be fair.
They are ruining the Rogue class, plain and simple. It just amazes me the decisions that are being made lately. I wonder. Do they want customers? Personally, I will no longer spend money on this game because the majority of said funds were being spent on my Rogue. Used to be the most fun class in the game to play. After the last round of nerfs, not so much. The changes on the Preview Shard, gamebreaking. Lurker's Assault is the most important PVE Daily and the only thing that still does any decent damage. Castrate that and you have ruined the class.
After rage reading 15 pages of forum, shocked at what i see, i felt the need to comment.
These nerfs are way over the top, and swinging the nerf hammer at anything that looks unbalanced is more destructive than people think. TRs are a single target dps class, Can we all agree on that? Therefore, its expected that they do just that. With these nerfs, That will no longer be the case. CWs will be able to do more damage to 10 adds at once than a TR can do to 1, Making TRs unwanted in parties. Their only job left would be to keep agro on the boss and run around looking pretty, because an extra CW in its place could probably do more damage to it. Each class has their roles, and if the goal is to stop the pvp madness, may i suggest a similar system to Dragon Nest? The skills had different PVP and PVE effects, that way whenever a balance was needed, non PVP players did not have to worry. It would be better to take some time creating this system instead of constantly curb stomping on classes and rendering them "Dead classes" until their next buff, if they even get one.
And on a quick side note, this already discourages TRs to continue playing and funding their chars, and will continue to worry them until the patch actually goes live, so if you plan on making a decision, it should probably be soon.
After rage reading 15 pages of forum, shocked at what i see, i felt the need to comment.
These nerfs are way over the top, and swinging the nerf hammer at anything that looks unbalanced is more destructive than people think. TRs are a single target dps class, Can we all agree on that? Therefore, its expected that they do just that. With these nerfs, That will no longer be the case. CWs will be able to do more damage to 10 adds at once than a TR can do to 1, Making TRs unwanted in parties. Their only job left would be to keep agro on the boss and run around looking pretty, because an extra CW in its place could probably do more damage to it. Each class has their roles, and if the goal is to stop the pvp madness, may i suggest a similar system to Dragon Nest? The skills had different PVP and PVE effects, that way whenever a balance was needed, non PVP players did not have to worry. It would be better to take some time creating this system instead of constantly curb stomping on classes and rendering them "Dead classes" until their next buff, if they even get one.
And on a quick side note, this already discourages TRs to continue playing and funding their chars, and will continue to worry them until the patch actually goes live, so if you plan on making a decision, it should probably be soon.
I agree with the above poster. The biggest impact is the rogue in pve which I do most. I do enjoy pvp also but I do my pve. As it currently sits my build would be drastically impacted if these changes go into live. It will render the style and method that I use on boss fights useless. I know I could just adapt a new strategy but am I going to have to spend my own diamonds and money to make the necessary changes?
If you think going around and 1 shotting ppl from stealth is ok your the idiot.
And if you think chain stunning someone and killing them before they can do anything is acceptable which is exactly the same, you sir are what you eat!
Each class have 3 paragon its mean 3 diferent play style you can even hibrid your class yeah some feats are broken and op. Use your brain adpt with every change that the chalange. If Pll only want to become OP makes easy to run PVP and DD all the crybaby will never stop complaint.
Good player is player that adapt regarless how broken and unbalance they class. there is no perfect game i have play alot MMO and they have the same problem but good player always adapt, if you guys want to play easy game than play others
so stop your whining.
Comments
Actually,the permastealth build was REALLY effective in PvE since you won't lose health meaning you won't be in dire need for potions all the time. To be honest, the only time I use potions in the game is when I am against a boss and am really hurt. I also think that if they are going to go through with this change they MUST give Trickster Rogues a free respec ._. Ive had to pay for respecs twice!I don't like having to pay another time because they want to ruin the class T_T
@pyroknight777 in the game ^_^ Don't worry if you see me stalking you...my characters are kind of "new" to social life...I mean how would you think a fire demon-turned hero would react to a girl if all he sees in hell are half-naked devilish women...
The "waste of time" is nerfing at all in a game that has any focus on PVP whatsoever, because all that does is puts a new class at the top of the power ladder, and all the complaints start to be about that class rather than the class that just got nerfed. Rinse > repeat, ad nauseum for infinity. When talking about wasting people hours, class balance is the biggest resource sync.
Since people never admit they were outmatched skill/strategy wise, they will always blame it on class imbalance.
Nobody from PWE/cryptic said they are thinking of nerfing because of pvp play, nor due the patch notes say anything about balance issues due to pvp play. Nor pve for that matter. All I am suggesting is to help people see another viewpoint on the matter. That perhaps this is due to things happening in pve. Heck maybe even both types of play. "shrugs"
Sure some have said there are other ways of fixing things pve, but who knows what all the entails. Who know what all is seen, and happens behind the scenes. Who here actually has the information in front of them to say, heck yeah sure there should/shouldnt be any changes?
They will be selling Whiners pack in the zen market for a limited time it contains a free respec token, snot rags, tissues and 300k ad.:p
PinkSugar, lvl 60 CW.
Baby Cakes, lvl 60 GWF.
*******, lvl 60 TR.
Premium Juicebox, lvl 60 CW.
Pink Exxxtacy, Ranger
There is NO pvp in Neverwinter.
To be readily purchased by the PvP babies who will still lose to rogues..
Pot, meet kettle, kettle, meet pot.
The crying was not started by the "stupid OP class", it was started by people that cant grasp simple team PvP mechanics, like it is in all MMOs with PvP. Everyone thinks PvP should be balanced around 1vs1, which isnt the case, especially in a game without W-PvP. So I suggest you go and pick up one of those "whiner packs" on the zen market, so you have them ready next time you wanna scream for a nerf.
Now the class takes a harsh beating (again) due to dev ignorance. They choose the easy way out when it comes to balancing, blatantly swinging the nerf hammer across the room hitting as much as they can. There are several simple solutions to fixing and balancing TRs and moving them from perma stealth.
Remove 4 set bonuses that buff stealth duration, currently with a spec, they buff stealth duration with 45%(!!!). This could easily be removed and compensated by another 4 set bonus. Along with the nerf bringing the ranged attack down to 8 daggers from 12 is a good starts. But nerfing LA, reducing thrown charges and forcing all at-wills to drain stealth feels a bit over the top. Why not gradually change the class, patch by patch and see how it turns out, instead of overnerfing in one go?
If you play a cleric, you will most likely whine again for the next class to get nerfed, instead of begging for buffs to your own. Soon we will sit there with the Devoted Greatweapon Trickster Control Guardian, which has 2 at-wills, 3 encounters, 2 dailies, 20 points worth of feats and 31 points worth of heroic feats, with zero choice for the player, just so balance is achieved.
Another person who wants to respec a ruined class. The mind boggles.
it'll make no difference at all..you could just get stomped by rangers as well and then whine about it till the nerf bat
But honestly, I ama killing machine in PVP with a rogue and can't do the same with any other class, no matter how hard you try.
So this is unbalanced, people roll rogue because they know it's silly dps and pve will suffer because pvp is almost <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> at the moment.
Pvp is what ruined the class, how else can they address it? Obviously a bit OP.
But i have no solution on how else they can fix the rogue, so this patch will have to do for now..
As for non-tradeable seal items, well it's full on stupid, what more can u say.
Toons:
New: CW Level 60
GF = Level 60
DC = Level 60
TR = Level 60
Yes that is the case- At level 60.
pre-level 60, everything is quite balanced alot better.
Pvp at the level cap is the problem. Not the class.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Currently we only see some (not all of them!) rogues crying and proclaiming the end to the game because of the small patch. They probably failed to grasp simple PvP feature called "balancing", which appears in every other MMO with PvP.
Pls somebody send the dev's a copy of dnd or a wiki link.
PinkSugar, lvl 60 CW.
Baby Cakes, lvl 60 GWF.
*******, lvl 60 TR.
Premium Juicebox, lvl 60 CW.
Pink Exxxtacy, Ranger
There is NO pvp in Neverwinter.
If 4th Edition blows your mind with its feebled dribblings then you should take a look at any previous incarnations of D&D where classes weren't laid out or decided for you like your clothes as a child..
BUT if you want to do away with Rogues from a D&D game then I suggest you pack your bags and move on as Rogues/Thieves have been a part of D&D longer than you've been on the earth judging by your pic..
I think it was too complicated so they dumbed it down and simplified it for the masses but I could be wrong. And I didn't know dnd was over 20yrs old.
PinkSugar, lvl 60 CW.
Baby Cakes, lvl 60 GWF.
*******, lvl 60 TR.
Premium Juicebox, lvl 60 CW.
Pink Exxxtacy, Ranger
There is NO pvp in Neverwinter.
Seems like a really odd change since the gripe I kept reading about with rogues was the becoming invisible and using the ranged attacks. Does this address that even?
1974:rolleyes: there or there abouts..
4 years before my time, though I did grow up playing AD&D 2E which I enjoyed a lot.
Life is a dream for the wise, a game for the fool, a comedy for the rich, a tragedy for the poor.
~Sholom Aleichem
Life is a dream for the wise, a game for the fool, a comedy for the rich, a tragedy for the poor.
~Sholom Aleichem
I plan to get setup on the preview server in the morning. I have hope we'll be able to adapt but I'd also like to see these changes for myself before I pass full judgement.
I too call for a free re-spec token for all existing Rogues when this patch goes into effect, it would only be fair.
"I am a Rogue, I simply observe from the shadows"
\
These nerfs are way over the top, and swinging the nerf hammer at anything that looks unbalanced is more destructive than people think. TRs are a single target dps class, Can we all agree on that? Therefore, its expected that they do just that. With these nerfs, That will no longer be the case. CWs will be able to do more damage to 10 adds at once than a TR can do to 1, Making TRs unwanted in parties. Their only job left would be to keep agro on the boss and run around looking pretty, because an extra CW in its place could probably do more damage to it. Each class has their roles, and if the goal is to stop the pvp madness, may i suggest a similar system to Dragon Nest? The skills had different PVP and PVE effects, that way whenever a balance was needed, non PVP players did not have to worry. It would be better to take some time creating this system instead of constantly curb stomping on classes and rendering them "Dead classes" until their next buff, if they even get one.
And on a quick side note, this already discourages TRs to continue playing and funding their chars, and will continue to worry them until the patch actually goes live, so if you plan on making a decision, it should probably be soon.
I agree with the above poster. The biggest impact is the rogue in pve which I do most. I do enjoy pvp also but I do my pve. As it currently sits my build would be drastically impacted if these changes go into live. It will render the style and method that I use on boss fights useless. I know I could just adapt a new strategy but am I going to have to spend my own diamonds and money to make the necessary changes?
And if you think chain stunning someone and killing them before they can do anything is acceptable which is exactly the same, you sir are what you eat!
Good player is player that adapt regarless how broken and unbalance they class. there is no perfect game i have play alot MMO and they have the same problem but good player always adapt, if you guys want to play easy game than play others
so stop your whining.