A simple combo of encounter that cause a bugged effect of perma stealth that needs to be fixed cause it gets in the way of PvP and it is a exploit.
Not sure if stupid or just troll. It's meant to refill your stealth bar, just because we combo certain encounters together does NOT make it an exploit. That's like saying stacking recovery on a CW to be able to keep their daily up almost always is an exploit. Also, by going permastealth, a TR loses out on a lot of damage potential. In the end, they are also the least armored class, so therefore they are the easiest to kill when out of stealth, which is the reason for their high damage output.
See many of you are missing the point of this entire thread. It is about balance. Good PvP is about balance. Every class should be viable, and Rogues have it all, with no down fall. I wish on everyone that like to pretend this is just another "whineing session" that one day you face a premade of all Trickster Rogues and see how much balance you see in the class then.
NOW, dance puppets!
ROFL @ balance in Neverwinter PvP.
- 7 Greater Tenebrous stacking
- Sentinel GWFs with Regen gear
- GF tanks 3-shotting people, not letting them get up
- Permastealth Rogues
- CWs perma-CC'ing people and Ice Knifing scrubs for 40k+ AT RANGE
Yup, only Rogues are imbalanced. STFU you scrub troll.
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nukeyooBanned Users, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Now go ahead you TR fan boys and through your temper tantrums about how I am wrong, can not play the game, or "just do not know what I am talking about."
Everquest was the first true mmo, don't count mud.
As for rogues, nerf them once you fix GWF's, perma stuns of CW's, perma knockback from GF's etc.
Plenty QQ about every class, and its always the under geared who have been killed by someone in good gear who has used a daily.
Being 1 shotted by a rogue using lurkers then using lashing, is no diff to a CW chain stunning someone then finishing off with a Ice knife The result is the same, neither person can do anything to react as they are dead.
Now please, less QQ more Pew Pew!
In PVP a Trickster Rogue can 1 shot kill, from stealth mind you, for 20k+ damage. Please explain to me how that is balanced. 20k is an entire health bar at level 60, that is not balance.
In PvP a Trickster Rogue can "Perma Stealth" now they are not always invisible but you see them vanish 50ft away and then the next thing you know here come the big hit as previously mention. And if that does not kill you, the vanish again to start the dagger volley which will most certainly finish the job.
Deflect. Really enough said. TR's can deflect with such a high rate that "damage classes" can only deal 10-15% of a life bar when the TR can take out half or more of their target out. Ridiculous.
Stun lock kill combo. A countless number of time I have witnessed rogues walk up and make their target unable to attack back the entire time they kill them. The only exception is GWF with determination but by the time that gets built up the TR has removed half the GWF health bar. Fight over at that point.
Trickster Rogues abilities are a great and necessary for PVE but in PVP they are too much. In all games with PVP balance is key there is no balance with a TR v Any Class. 1v1 with same gear score should be a fair fight, and it is not. Of course I am not talk about the mass brawling moss pits that occur in PvP that is chaos and just the way it is I enjoy that part, but when I am standing on a capture point and see a TR approach I fight tooth and nail every time with the same result, I fail.
There is no balance to TR in PvP.
Now go ahead you TR fan boys and through your temper tantrums about how I am wrong, can not play the game, or "just do not know what I am talking about."
Really can we do all that?
HOOOOORAY:cool:
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nukeyooBanned Users, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Being 1 shotted by a rogue using lurkers then using lashing, is no diff to a CW chain stunning someone then finishing off with a Ice knife The result is the same, neither person can do anything to react as they are dead.
Now please, less QQ more Pew Pew!
I wouldn't necessarily say the two are the same. I can usually take out at least two squishes if they're in close enough proximity when I pop lurkers and usually in and out then back in stealth. My cw usually can get the same result but requires a bit more effort with the CC + debuffs to get the ice knife to crit 19-20k+. Bit more of a surprise factor with the TR.
GWF I ran into the other day though, had to be using some sort of hack/exploit to literally deflect/absorb ungodly amounts of damage even without unstoppable up while still laying down HAMSTER damage and moved at least 20% movement speed (non sprint and not quite as fast as sneak attacks 30%). He literally stood there and let me get off stealth crit lashing blade and several rotations of sly flourish as he typed out, "oo tickles" as I only brought him down to around 70%. He then preceded to lay the smack down to which there was no escape. Even tried a LA LB on him after waiting for his unstoppable to wear off, as he was fighting 3 other of my pug teammates. Whopping 5k damage got through with 24k mitigated 1k absorbed. He did die twice though when we had 4 or all 5 focusing and enough CC to stop him from getting to a pot. Still double yoo tee eff. good times in neverwillbebalancedwinter pvp
In PVP a Trickster Rogue can 1 shot kill, from stealth mind you, for 20k+ damage. Please explain to me how that is balanced. 20k is an entire health bar at level 60, that is not balance.
In PvP a Trickster Rogue can "Perma Stealth" now they are not always invisible but you see them vanish 50ft away and then the next thing you know here come the big hit as previously mention. And if that does not kill you, the vanish again to start the dagger volley which will most certainly finish the job.
Deflect. Really enough said. TR's can deflect with such a high rate that "damage classes" can only deal 10-15% of a life bar when the TR can take out half or more of their target out. Ridiculous.
Stun lock kill combo. A countless number of time I have witnessed rogues walk up and make their target unable to attack back the entire time they kill them. The only exception is GWF with determination but by the time that gets built up the TR has removed half the GWF health bar. Fight over at that point.
Trickster Rogues abilities are a great and necessary for PVE but in PVP they are too much. In all games with PVP balance is key there is no balance with a TR v Any Class. 1v1 with same gear score should be a fair fight, and it is not. Of course I am not talk about the mass brawling moss pits that occur in PvP that is chaos and just the way it is I enjoy that part, but when I am standing on a capture point and see a TR approach I fight tooth and nail every time with the same result, I fail.
There is no balance to TR in PvP.
Now go ahead you TR fan boys and through your temper tantrums about how I am wrong, can not play the game, or "just do not know what I am talking about."
The ONLY person having a temper tantrum here is you. You might want to educate yourself a bit more or gather a bit more experience in what a rogue actually does and the limitations it has before you come onto the forums otherwise you sound like an idiot. Those who understand the limitations can see right through your rhetoric. Which turns you into a QQ whiny (devs need to help you play the game) player.
All the rogue abilitys are fine, except perma stealth, in my opinion...
its ridiculous that my Hp drops by half from some MELEE class using a RANGED skill that i cant counter because he is invisible...
But i agree that when you get a rogue out of stealth he is dead if he doesnt run away...
so in my opinion they should rework cloud of steel and remove perma stealth while giving rogues some boost in survival when out of stealth...its not fun for anyone except the rogue, using any skill should remove you from stealth...
And i play a GF and i admit that our CC's and burst are way too much for a tank class, and i dont even have any tenebrous or full enchant yet (<
poor gf).... they could lower our knockdowns or reduce our burst...after they fix perma stealth
its ridiculous that my Hp drops by half from some MELEE class using a RANGED skill that i cant counter because he is invisible...
Right there, thats what creates all this chaos on complaints about permas. It is perfetly possible to counter it, and more than once a hero appeared on the forum teaching people how to do it, yet people just cling to ignorance because:
a) crying for nerf is easier
b) too lazy to try to apply what was taught on forums
c) trolling is fun
d) all of the above
just pick one, but thats just summing up what 99% of the nerf callers are. I would be on their side if indeed permas were impossibe to counter, but playing one i know thats not the case, not by a long shot. I get hard countered on some pvp matches, and im not even mad about it, its fun when i have to readapt my gameplay on a match because my usual style is being countered.
But like i said, for some "special" people countering us is impossible
Right there, thats what creates all this chaos on complaints about permas. It is perfetly possible to counter it, and more than once a hero appeared on the forum teaching people how to do it, yet people just cling to ignorance because:
a) crying for nerf is easier
b) too lazy to try to apply what was taught on forums
c) trolling is fun
d) all of the above
just pick one, but thats just summing up what 99% of the nerf callers are. I would be their side if indeed permas were impossibe to counter, but playing one i know thats not the case, not by a long shot. I get hard countered on some pvp matches, and im not even mad about it, its fun when i have to readapt my gameplay on a match because my usual style is being countered.
But like i said, for some "special" people countering us is impossible
You should learn to read, and not focusing on a single line from my post, but i guess you are one of those "special people" that you were talking about....
read my post again please...
having a ranged skill on a MELEE class that can take half of my HP before i even see from where its coming is ridiculous.... using a skill, ANY skill should put you out of stealth, letting you use stealth again after the move is finished....
not realizing that perma stealth is broken is the same as me saying that my GF ccs are perfectly fine and not broken too....i also like the advantage it gives me over another player, but i am man enough to admit that its not balanced and its bull****...
but i guess that "special people" like you cant admit that, because if perma stealth didnt exist you'de reroll another FOTM class..
Right there, thats what creates all this chaos on complaints about permas. It is perfetly possible to counter it
More often than not it involves running away and usually that isn't the best idea when the PVP arenas is about preventing your nodes from being captured. A mage stands no chance if he's left alone at the node, he will either die to a patient perma-stealth rogue or forced to flee and thus lose the node.
having a ranged skill on a MELEE class that can take half of my HP before i even see from where its coming is ridiculous.
strange, GFs can do that too...granted you see them while they pwn you, yet you cant do anything anyway since youre perma knocked.....where is your complained about those?
More often than not it involves running away and usually that isn't the best idea when the PVP arenas is about preventing your nodes from being captured. A mage stands no chance if he's left alone at the node, he will either die to a patient perma-stealth rogue or forced to flee and thus lose the node.
or he is smart, doesnt lose the node and kills the TR
strange, GFs can do that too...granted you see them while they pwn you, yet you cant do anything anyway since youre perma knocked.....where is your complained about those?
or he is smart, doesnt lose the node and kills the TR
Strange , you didnt even read my post....plz tell where i ask for nerfs except for perma stealth....
a MELEE class taking half of my HP with a RANGED ability is RIDICULOUS....
and tell oh mighty rogue what are my GF RANGED skills?plz tell me because its been 2 months and i still haven found them...unless you are calling "tab" mark the most useless skill ingame a ranged damage skill....rofl...
But yeah read my post again forum tough guy....
tell where i ask for more nerfs for rogues?
i even said that they need more out of stealth survival!! im only saying that perma stealth IS BROKEN...
and tell me if i dont point out the flaws in GF ccs in both of my posts??????
.
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gutbotMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 28Arc User
edited July 2013
You don't need good gear to one shot people I have the pvp gear on my TR some cheap ad weaps from the AH and some cheap neck and rings. I use lurker daily and the big knife thingy(cant remember the name of it) it does 23k+ most of the time.
I am a nooob when I play my tr yet I come top in kills and I don't even know what the spells are called.
easy mode is easy mode anyone who thinks any different should try playing a DC.
Although on my other toons other TR's stealth isn't so bad now that I've started wearing headphones.
Fortunately the sound in never winter is quite accurate which makes them easier to find.
One thing that drives me insane though is that sometimes when I get them out of stealth and they have bait n switch thingy out , even if I'm facing them and the dummy is at a 45 degree angle or more in relation to my vision, the NW auto targeting will sometimes target the dummy.
strange, GFs can do that too...granted you see them while they pwn you, yet you cant do anything anyway since youre perma knocked.....where is your complained about those?
or he is smart, doesnt lose the node and kills the TR
A GF has 3 skills. A rogue has 234,567,983,456 skills Great comparison.
You should learn to read, and not focusing on a single line from my post, but i guess you are one of those "special people" that you were talking about....
read my post again please...
having a ranged skill on a MELEE class that can take half of my HP before i even see from where its coming is ridiculous.... using a skill, ANY skill should put you out of stealth, letting you use stealth again after the move is finished....
not realizing that perma stealth is broken is the same as me saying that my GF ccs are perfectly fine and not broken too....i also like the advantage it gives me over another player, but i am man enough to admit that its not balanced and its bull****...
but i guess that "special people" like you cant admit that, because if perma stealth didnt exist you'de reroll another FOTM class..
The moment we turn visible as you stated is the moment we are most vunerable, because we are glass cannons. 1 seccond visible can = death if we are opposing a difficult target (actual good players). If you dont believe me, play rogue and turn visible close to a CW/GWF/GF and see the magic happens.
You guys keep in mind that permastealth is easy to perform, but that just serve to show how many people here never tried it. I used to think the same and deffend the same as you, but then i realized after playing perma that 1 small damage you take while on stealth = the whole thing crumbling, your rotation start to get difficult coming to a inevitable point where you will become a walking target, but only those that have already played the build can state that, the rest just think its a bug or incredible easy to perform (which it isnt) and find it unfair when good players use it.
You say CoS remove half your health bar....well, some other classes remove your whole health bar, but the other classes dont have to wait 36 secconds to refill the skill. Also you only lose that much health if you are a imovable target that will just let it all get to you. Dodge, guard, teleport, run to the opposite direction just to stop the chain damage, all are viable ways to stop the piled up damage.
The counter some people find so hard to perform is simple, use an AoE close to where you think the rogue is or predict the possible paths he will go (not that hard) and get in the way, forcing him to waste a dodge in a direction to get away from you and also giving away his new route. Having a rogue of my own i can tell how to counter my class, i can immagine what is the worst that any class can do to hurt me, and do it to other rogues breaking what they believe to be umbreakable. If you just watch other players using it well, of course the build seems uncounterable. When you use it you see the actual flaws.
And if perma didnt exist, i would just roll a build just as annoying with any class i pleased, i dont just get spoonfed by guides, i make my stuff, but it bugs me when people want absolute nerfs on things that are counterable, just because they find it hard to learn to counter. I have been on MMOs for a loooooong time and the history just keep repeating. Someone goes creative, makes a strong use of a class and the nubs who cant see the flaws on his build will ask for nerf, easy as that.
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nukeyooBanned Users, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited July 2013
same blowhards will defend the TR regardless of builds til their dying breath... majority most likely thought prenerf SE wasn't at all op either.
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borgued3Member, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 150Bounty Hunter
same blowhards will defend the TR regardless of builds til their dying breath... majority most likely thought prenerf SE wasn't at all op either.
I disaprove requests for nerfs when they come from lazy minds. If TR was indeed OP i wouldnt disagree when people asked for nerfs, however thats not the case and like i said it takes a person the time to play the class to know it's weaknesses and know how to use them against said class on pvp. In my opinion GWF is probably far more OP than a TR right now, but then again i never played one (intend to try eventually, but i want to finish my rogue and tank GF first), so if he has any blatant weaknesses that i can use against him, at least so far they arent that visible for me, but i wont point my finger on forums asking for nerfs untill i know the gameplay for the class, which in my opinion is what most of the nerf callers should do before running their mouths.
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nukeyooBanned Users, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
I disaprove requests for nerfs when they come from lazy minds. If TR was indeed OP i wouldnt disagree when people asked for nerfs, however thats not the case and like i said it takes a person the time to play the class to know it's weaknesses and know how to use them against said class on pvp. In my opinion GWF is probably far more OP than a TR right now, but then again i never played one (intend to try eventually, but i want to finish my rogue and tank GF first), so if he has any blatant weaknesses that i can use against him, at least so far they arent that visible for me, but i wont point my finger on forums asking for nerfs untill i know the gameplay for the class, which in my opinion is what most of the nerf callers should do before running their mouths.
There's plenty of people like myself that play TR and realize and execute the absurdity that can be done with them. Perma stealth rogues and sent GWF's are the two builds most talked about because they tip the scales a bit too far in their favor with regen GF's using broken feats, not too far behind them in the complaint category.
I knew my CW was a bit too OP prenerf and I never argued with all the whine threads because I knew they had a valid argument. I know my TR is a bit too OP. Got called OP by another rogue in a pug matchup yesterday as I rolled over them with 30+ kills and 1 death. Which made me laugh because I wanted to show him my rank 5 dark enchantments and tell him armor pen was his friend. I'm not about to justify it by making comparisons to other classes that can be found by some peoples opinions just as, if not more OP. Which seems to be one of the favored defense arguments to the whines just behind l2play.
I'm not here to debate with you. It has been and will continue to be cried over from both sides of the spectrum until something changes and there is something else that is broken or op to cry over. Everyone is entitled to their own opinions and it is my opinion that the same blowhards will defend the TR regardless of builds til their dying breath... and I'm sure the majority were crying that prenerf SE wasn't at all op either.
I have a rouge with a Greater Vorpal, a greater soulforged, and rank 8 darks all around. The class is to powerful with these enchantments. Not even a question about it. If you are going to be able to have that much power imo you should not have impossible to catch. With this encounter its like god mode. This is my opinion.
I have a rouge with a Greater Vorpal, a greater soulforged, and rank 8 darks all around. The class is to powerful with these enchantments. Not even a question about it. If you are going to be able to have that much power imo you should not have impossible to catch. With this encounter its like god mode. This is my opinion.
So CW's can chain stun you to death?
Lol every class has its op'ness when geared and played properly.
And any class with those enchants is powerful, don't just put rogues on a pedestal.
It's also going to be a very long time until class balances are brought in from cryptic, they have said that already.
In PVP a Trickster Rogue can 1 shot kill, from stealth mind you, for 20k+ damage. Please explain to me how that is balanced. 20k is an entire health bar at level 60, that is not balance.
In PvP a Trickster Rogue can "Perma Stealth" now they are not always invisible but you see them vanish 50ft away and then the next thing you know here come the big hit as previously mention. And if that does not kill you, the vanish again to start the dagger volley which will most certainly finish the job.
Deflect. Really enough said. TR's can deflect with such a high rate that "damage classes" can only deal 10-15% of a life bar when the TR can take out half or more of their target out. Ridiculous.
Stun lock kill combo. A countless number of time I have witnessed rogues walk up and make their target unable to attack back the entire time they kill them. The only exception is GWF with determination but by the time that gets built up the TR has removed half the GWF health bar. Fight over at that point.
Trickster Rogues abilities are a great and necessary for PVE but in PVP they are too much. In all games with PVP balance is key there is no balance with a TR v Any Class. 1v1 with same gear score should be a fair fight, and it is not. Of course I am not talk about the mass brawling moss pits that occur in PvP that is chaos and just the way it is I enjoy that part, but when I am standing on a capture point and see a TR approach I fight tooth and nail every time with the same result, I fail.
There is no balance to TR in PvP.
Now go ahead you TR fan boys and through your temper tantrums about how I am wrong, can not play the game, or "just do not know what I am talking about."
I don't read the whole message. Btw, are we playing the same game dude? As a GWF now, i can break a TR like a chicken.
Its not all about the classes dude, it about the person controlling behind the computer + gear/set + enchants + experience + knowledge.
Common sense dude. Learn to play, and please post with sense. There are lot of better issues that should be discuss here, enough with this ridiculous threads like yours.
Btw, go pvp with dummy, it wont strike back.
There's three ways to do things, the right way, the wrong way and the way that I do it.
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ambisinisterrMember, Neverwinter ModeratorPosts: 10,462Community Moderator
edited July 2013
Please keep this discussion respectful. I know things can get heated but insults of any kinds, including play skill, are completely unnecessary and will not be tolerated as per the Rules of Conduct.
A Note about Respect
We're here to have fun and to share information with each other. With so many different personalities gathered in one place, clashes are bound to happen now and then. But how one conducts oneself during these situations makes all the difference. While opinions are valued on the forums, please remember to respect each other and have discussions and not arguments. If you find yourself disagreeing with another member, think first and then calmly compose your words. Treat each other how you would like to be treated.
If you are permanently stealthed then it is broke. Obviously needs a fix like damage breaking stealth and a CD for Stealth.
Oh look, another person who doesn't know squat about the rogue, thinking it is a simple solution just to remove the ability to attack from stealth.
First of all, there is a cool down for stealth. But there are also abilities that grant stealth, like shadow strike. So if you want to make it so shadow strike doesn't work any more then they need to replace it with something. Not only this ability but bait and switch also grants full stealth bar. Without using them stealth does have a cool down, so you have no clue what you are talking about.
Next, there are many rogue abilities that grant damage bonus while in stealth or they increase the amount of action points you get while attacking from stealth. You don't get action points by being in stealth, you have to actually attack. If attacking broke stealth, these abilities would become 99% useless.
So the rogue class would have to go through a complete overhaul just to change to attacking breaks stealth. Ignorant players think it is as simple as just removing stealth if the rogue attacks. No it would ruin the class if there wasn't any additional rework of the abilities and counter balance to survivability or damage.
just wanted to say that as a CW/DC when I know the TR is there, I manage to dodge their Lashing Blade 7 out of 10 times
the only way they can stop me from dodging is to use their shadow strike while in stealth which is not that practical if they just went into stealth, since they lose time they could be in stealth and once they make their hit they would become vulnerable, unable to go back in stealth for a while unless they daily me and have the passive which replenishes the stealth bar each time they daily, which again is kind of unpractical since it means they waste almost their entire arsenal to kill one caster..
most times I get killed by them ambushing me while I am fighting someone else, which is reasonable for me because I am keeping 2 players busy while I die.. as a GF I don't get 1 shoted, but I should get to 60 first, to comment more on that
donno about the GWF since I only have GF,DC,TR and CW
what I experience in PvP is that I usually get killed fast, when there is more than 1 attacker, which again seems reasonable to me
1v1 they don't seem OP, I don't get ambushed so often
I notice that the majority of TR's kills are KS which means any other class could be that guy not necessarily a TR, they are just better at KSing and btw CWs are too
actually if a GWF wants to kill you, he will chase you all over the map until you die, a GF can 2-3 shot you while stun-locking you without giving you the possibility to even try to counter, the CW can CC you to death, a good DC will slowly kill you 1v1 and the whole fight will feel like the most frustrating thing in PvP
Comments
Not sure if stupid or just troll. It's meant to refill your stealth bar, just because we combo certain encounters together does NOT make it an exploit. That's like saying stacking recovery on a CW to be able to keep their daily up almost always is an exploit. Also, by going permastealth, a TR loses out on a lot of damage potential. In the end, they are also the least armored class, so therefore they are the easiest to kill when out of stealth, which is the reason for their high damage output.
ROFL @ balance in Neverwinter PvP.
- 7 Greater Tenebrous stacking
- Sentinel GWFs with Regen gear
- GF tanks 3-shotting people, not letting them get up
- Permastealth Rogues
- CWs perma-CC'ing people and Ice Knifing scrubs for 40k+ AT RANGE
Yup, only Rogues are imbalanced. STFU you scrub troll.
Lol. The hypocrisy.
Hyenas@zokir - Essence of Aggression
As for rogues, nerf them once you fix GWF's, perma stuns of CW's, perma knockback from GF's etc.
Plenty QQ about every class, and its always the under geared who have been killed by someone in good gear who has used a daily.
Being 1 shotted by a rogue using lurkers then using lashing, is no diff to a CW chain stunning someone then finishing off with a Ice knife The result is the same, neither person can do anything to react as they are dead.
Now please, less QQ more Pew Pew!
HOOOOORAY:cool:
I wouldn't necessarily say the two are the same. I can usually take out at least two squishes if they're in close enough proximity when I pop lurkers and usually in and out then back in stealth. My cw usually can get the same result but requires a bit more effort with the CC + debuffs to get the ice knife to crit 19-20k+. Bit more of a surprise factor with the TR.
GWF I ran into the other day though, had to be using some sort of hack/exploit to literally deflect/absorb ungodly amounts of damage even without unstoppable up while still laying down HAMSTER damage and moved at least 20% movement speed (non sprint and not quite as fast as sneak attacks 30%). He literally stood there and let me get off stealth crit lashing blade and several rotations of sly flourish as he typed out, "oo tickles" as I only brought him down to around 70%. He then preceded to lay the smack down to which there was no escape. Even tried a LA LB on him after waiting for his unstoppable to wear off, as he was fighting 3 other of my pug teammates. Whopping 5k damage got through with 24k mitigated 1k absorbed. He did die twice though when we had 4 or all 5 focusing and enough CC to stop him from getting to a pot. Still double yoo tee eff.
The ONLY person having a temper tantrum here is you. You might want to educate yourself a bit more or gather a bit more experience in what a rogue actually does and the limitations it has before you come onto the forums otherwise you sound like an idiot. Those who understand the limitations can see right through your rhetoric. Which turns you into a QQ whiny (devs need to help you play the game) player.
its ridiculous that my Hp drops by half from some MELEE class using a RANGED skill that i cant counter because he is invisible...
But i agree that when you get a rogue out of stealth he is dead if he doesnt run away...
so in my opinion they should rework cloud of steel and remove perma stealth while giving rogues some boost in survival when out of stealth...its not fun for anyone except the rogue, using any skill should remove you from stealth...
And i play a GF and i admit that our CC's and burst are way too much for a tank class, and i dont even have any tenebrous or full enchant yet (<
poor gf).... they could lower our knockdowns or reduce our burst...after they fix perma stealth
Right there, thats what creates all this chaos on complaints about permas. It is perfetly possible to counter it, and more than once a hero appeared on the forum teaching people how to do it, yet people just cling to ignorance because:
a) crying for nerf is easier
b) too lazy to try to apply what was taught on forums
c) trolling is fun
d) all of the above
just pick one, but thats just summing up what 99% of the nerf callers are. I would be on their side if indeed permas were impossibe to counter, but playing one i know thats not the case, not by a long shot. I get hard countered on some pvp matches, and im not even mad about it, its fun when i have to readapt my gameplay on a match because my usual style is being countered.
But like i said, for some "special" people countering us is impossible
You should learn to read, and not focusing on a single line from my post, but i guess you are one of those "special people" that you were talking about....
read my post again please...
having a ranged skill on a MELEE class that can take half of my HP before i even see from where its coming is ridiculous.... using a skill, ANY skill should put you out of stealth, letting you use stealth again after the move is finished....
not realizing that perma stealth is broken is the same as me saying that my GF ccs are perfectly fine and not broken too....i also like the advantage it gives me over another player, but i am man enough to admit that its not balanced and its bull****...
but i guess that "special people" like you cant admit that, because if perma stealth didnt exist you'de reroll another FOTM class..
More often than not it involves running away and usually that isn't the best idea when the PVP arenas is about preventing your nodes from being captured. A mage stands no chance if he's left alone at the node, he will either die to a patient perma-stealth rogue or forced to flee and thus lose the node.
strange, GFs can do that too...granted you see them while they pwn you, yet you cant do anything anyway since youre perma knocked.....where is your complained about those?
or he is smart, doesnt lose the node and kills the TR
Strange , you didnt even read my post....plz tell where i ask for nerfs except for perma stealth....
a MELEE class taking half of my HP with a RANGED ability is RIDICULOUS....
and tell oh mighty rogue what are my GF RANGED skills?plz tell me because its been 2 months and i still haven found them...unless you are calling "tab" mark the most useless skill ingame a ranged damage skill....rofl...
But yeah read my post again forum tough guy....
tell where i ask for more nerfs for rogues?
i even said that they need more out of stealth survival!! im only saying that perma stealth IS BROKEN...
and tell me if i dont point out the flaws in GF ccs in both of my posts??????
.
I am a nooob when I play my tr yet I come top in kills and I don't even know what the spells are called.
easy mode is easy mode anyone who thinks any different should try playing a DC.
Although on my other toons other TR's stealth isn't so bad now that I've started wearing headphones.
Fortunately the sound in never winter is quite accurate which makes them easier to find.
One thing that drives me insane though is that sometimes when I get them out of stealth and they have bait n switch thingy out , even if I'm facing them and the dummy is at a 45 degree angle or more in relation to my vision, the NW auto targeting will sometimes target the dummy.
A GF has 3 skills. A rogue has 234,567,983,456 skills Great comparison.
If you are permanently stealthed then it is broke. Obviously needs a fix like damage breaking stealth and a CD for Stealth.
The moment we turn visible as you stated is the moment we are most vunerable, because we are glass cannons. 1 seccond visible can = death if we are opposing a difficult target (actual good players). If you dont believe me, play rogue and turn visible close to a CW/GWF/GF and see the magic happens.
You guys keep in mind that permastealth is easy to perform, but that just serve to show how many people here never tried it. I used to think the same and deffend the same as you, but then i realized after playing perma that 1 small damage you take while on stealth = the whole thing crumbling, your rotation start to get difficult coming to a inevitable point where you will become a walking target, but only those that have already played the build can state that, the rest just think its a bug or incredible easy to perform (which it isnt) and find it unfair when good players use it.
You say CoS remove half your health bar....well, some other classes remove your whole health bar, but the other classes dont have to wait 36 secconds to refill the skill. Also you only lose that much health if you are a imovable target that will just let it all get to you. Dodge, guard, teleport, run to the opposite direction just to stop the chain damage, all are viable ways to stop the piled up damage.
The counter some people find so hard to perform is simple, use an AoE close to where you think the rogue is or predict the possible paths he will go (not that hard) and get in the way, forcing him to waste a dodge in a direction to get away from you and also giving away his new route. Having a rogue of my own i can tell how to counter my class, i can immagine what is the worst that any class can do to hurt me, and do it to other rogues breaking what they believe to be umbreakable. If you just watch other players using it well, of course the build seems uncounterable. When you use it you see the actual flaws.
And if perma didnt exist, i would just roll a build just as annoying with any class i pleased, i dont just get spoonfed by guides, i make my stuff, but it bugs me when people want absolute nerfs on things that are counterable, just because they find it hard to learn to counter. I have been on MMOs for a loooooong time and the history just keep repeating. Someone goes creative, makes a strong use of a class and the nubs who cant see the flaws on his build will ask for nerf, easy as that.
I disaprove requests for nerfs when they come from lazy minds. If TR was indeed OP i wouldnt disagree when people asked for nerfs, however thats not the case and like i said it takes a person the time to play the class to know it's weaknesses and know how to use them against said class on pvp. In my opinion GWF is probably far more OP than a TR right now, but then again i never played one (intend to try eventually, but i want to finish my rogue and tank GF first), so if he has any blatant weaknesses that i can use against him, at least so far they arent that visible for me, but i wont point my finger on forums asking for nerfs untill i know the gameplay for the class, which in my opinion is what most of the nerf callers should do before running their mouths.
There's plenty of people like myself that play TR and realize and execute the absurdity that can be done with them. Perma stealth rogues and sent GWF's are the two builds most talked about because they tip the scales a bit too far in their favor with regen GF's using broken feats, not too far behind them in the complaint category.
I knew my CW was a bit too OP prenerf and I never argued with all the whine threads because I knew they had a valid argument. I know my TR is a bit too OP. Got called OP by another rogue in a pug matchup yesterday as I rolled over them with 30+ kills and 1 death. Which made me laugh because I wanted to show him my rank 5 dark enchantments and tell him armor pen was his friend. I'm not about to justify it by making comparisons to other classes that can be found by some peoples opinions just as, if not more OP. Which seems to be one of the favored defense arguments to the whines just behind l2play.
I'm not here to debate with you. It has been and will continue to be cried over from both sides of the spectrum until something changes and there is something else that is broken or op to cry over. Everyone is entitled to their own opinions and it is my opinion that the same blowhards will defend the TR regardless of builds til their dying breath... and I'm sure the majority were crying that prenerf SE wasn't at all op either.
So CW's can chain stun you to death?
Lol every class has its op'ness when geared and played properly.
And any class with those enchants is powerful, don't just put rogues on a pedestal.
It's also going to be a very long time until class balances are brought in from cryptic, they have said that already.
I don't read the whole message. Btw, are we playing the same game dude? As a GWF now, i can break a TR like a chicken.
Its not all about the classes dude, it about the person controlling behind the computer + gear/set + enchants + experience + knowledge.
Common sense dude. Learn to play, and please post with sense. There are lot of better issues that should be discuss here, enough with this ridiculous threads like yours.
Btw, go pvp with dummy, it wont strike back.
Oh look, another person who doesn't know squat about the rogue, thinking it is a simple solution just to remove the ability to attack from stealth.
First of all, there is a cool down for stealth. But there are also abilities that grant stealth, like shadow strike. So if you want to make it so shadow strike doesn't work any more then they need to replace it with something. Not only this ability but bait and switch also grants full stealth bar. Without using them stealth does have a cool down, so you have no clue what you are talking about.
Next, there are many rogue abilities that grant damage bonus while in stealth or they increase the amount of action points you get while attacking from stealth. You don't get action points by being in stealth, you have to actually attack. If attacking broke stealth, these abilities would become 99% useless.
So the rogue class would have to go through a complete overhaul just to change to attacking breaks stealth. Ignorant players think it is as simple as just removing stealth if the rogue attacks. No it would ruin the class if there wasn't any additional rework of the abilities and counter balance to survivability or damage.
just wanted to say that as a CW/DC when I know the TR is there, I manage to dodge their Lashing Blade 7 out of 10 times
the only way they can stop me from dodging is to use their shadow strike while in stealth which is not that practical if they just went into stealth, since they lose time they could be in stealth and once they make their hit they would become vulnerable, unable to go back in stealth for a while unless they daily me and have the passive which replenishes the stealth bar each time they daily, which again is kind of unpractical since it means they waste almost their entire arsenal to kill one caster..
most times I get killed by them ambushing me while I am fighting someone else, which is reasonable for me because I am keeping 2 players busy while I die.. as a GF I don't get 1 shoted, but I should get to 60 first, to comment more on that
donno about the GWF since I only have GF,DC,TR and CW
what I experience in PvP is that I usually get killed fast, when there is more than 1 attacker, which again seems reasonable to me
1v1 they don't seem OP, I don't get ambushed so often
I notice that the majority of TR's kills are KS which means any other class could be that guy not necessarily a TR, they are just better at KSing and btw CWs are too
actually if a GWF wants to kill you, he will chase you all over the map until you die, a GF can 2-3 shot you while stun-locking you without giving you the possibility to even try to counter, the CW can CC you to death, a good DC will slowly kill you 1v1 and the whole fight will feel like the most frustrating thing in PvP