I believe that reducing damage benefit from weapon and improve its scaling with power would fix most of existing issues.
I dunno if I agree with that, but the tene enchants definitely throw it out of whack the class tree itself without tene is fairly balanced. I have to wonder when they made the trees if they had enchants in mind.
So if a class uses some specific skills, that class requires zero skill to play.
List of rogue's encounters that deal damage:
-Dazing Strike (CC: dazing + DPS: average)
-Lashing Blade (DPS: Alpha strike)
-Deft Strike (Utility: gap closer + DPS: low) -Blitz (a range AoE - totally useless in PvP)
-Path of Blade (DPS: AoE)
-Impact shot (DPS: single target)
-Shadow Strike (Utility: refill stealth - DPS: very low) -Wicked Reminder (Utility: armor debuff + DPS: very low - strictly for PvE)
Subtract Wicked reminder + Blitz, Rogues have 6 choices left for dps/utilities to choose to put on their quick-bar and those skills have to compete with ItC, smokebomb, bait n switch.
As the result, the repeat of skills combo is inevitable. This happens to every class not just rogues.
Your beloved CW has 10 encounters. Therefore, with your statement, CWs is also another zero skill class, isnt it?
Please be more reasonable.
Yes the rogue is a low skill requirement class.
In PVE the Bosses in this game are stupidly easy targets. It
This ones for Huck and his rogue LRN2Play fanboi club.
And for your rogues that think your skilled. in PVE on boss fights you deal with one target. Just one. As a CW I have up 15-20 targets plus various red zones of AOE. I have the least amount of mitigation and have to deal with those targets while the AS is down or its a wipe. I have to protect the healer at the same time or its a wipe.
On CN if I don't round those targets up and punt them at just the right time every time its a wipe. If we don't have them all out by a certain time its all over.
You guys hit one target. Takes lots of skill to do that.
I see so many rogues going for the stealth then target the CW path. Its either COS spamming or lashing blade over and over again. Rogue dies comes back does the same thing over and over again. Add in total immunity to our CCs and impact shot and its the cheapest kills you can find. Then they can go back and find a target of opportunity they can two man. This takes no skill.
Most "OP" in terms of survivability, damage potential and gear requirement.
' | '
1) GWF <- Still were the best pre-gwf buff patch.
2) TR
3) GF
4) CW
5) DC
' | '
Least "OP" in terms of survivability, damage potential and gear requirement.
If you do not agree with this order then you are either in denial or clueless as to what is happening in real high level pvp. If you don't feel you're in denial or clueless, please let us all know why. Thanks.
edit: Notice how I put "OP" in quotations, its a very loose term. In this game and probably MMO's in general, there are usually only a few things that are truly overpowered. For the most part though, you just need to talk about how well a class can survive in conjunction with how much damage they can do/kill potential simultaneously.
I really disagree...
my rank is:
1) GWF: i'm not sure, f gwf or rogue, but gwf after patch is immortal. He can use unstoppable every 2 seconds and if low hp, run away at the speed of light. After "balance" (really!?) patch, they are immortal. They deal a damage "very really" higher than a GF just having a little less defense. A GF total defensive has higher defense, but zero damage.
2) TR: He can oneshot every class. I see rogue and mages deal 40k-60k damage... also rogue can run away, hide himself eternally or blocks opponent's skill eternally. He also is a strong melee and ranged DPS. He's very unfair.
3) CW: It is really difficult to hit him. As he see you from km of distance, he hangs you, freeze you and if you can reach him he push you. GF has luging strike but if he jump towards a cw, he simply use push aganist lunging strinke winning and pushing the GF back. ALso I see CW teleportig them while they are stunned or prone, and teleporting them many and many times as they don't need any stammina poits.
4) DC: It has many defensive skill and can run away like wizards apparently without needing any recovery.
5) GF: He can have lot of HP and defense, but against CW that hung until death and freeze, TR that stun eternally and gwf all time unstoppable that defense is really useless. The shield? Useless at back, still with slow response to user inputs, very easy to break in 2 seconds. Stuns? Ok stuns, but why I see ppl doing watherever they want while stunned? Stuns worth only in pve. Defense? Easy to "break" with armor penetration.
5) GF: He can have lot of HP and defense, but against CW that hung until death and freeze, TR that stun eternally and gwf all time unstoppable that defense is really useless. The shield? Useless at back, still with slow response to user inputs, very easy to break in 2 seconds. Stuns? Ok stuns, but why I see ppl doing watherever they want while stunned? Stuns worth only in pve. Defense? Easy to "break" with armor penetration.
I'm finding this hard to take seriously, you trolling me bro? TR's stunning eternally? Whaa??? Stuns only good in pve? Whaa???!! Shield useless? Whaa???
What GF's you playing with?
This is me a while back, Conq specced, very squishy, rarely ever crit, dont use knights challenge, dont even have BIS, best I have slotted are a few regular tenebs(not greaters) and a lesser soulforge:
I don't know what GF's you play with/against but its very easy with average gear and proper build for GF's to be very powerful. If it wasnt for the stealth-ranged meta at 60 we would rank above rogues easily.
Guild: Lemonade Stand | Server: Dragon (Original) | PvP Forever | 1og0s * TWITCH * YOUTUBE * MY GUIDES *
1) GWF: i'm not sure, f gwf or rogue, but gwf after patch is immortal. He can use unstoppable every 2 seconds and if low hp, run away at the speed of light. After "balance" (really!?) patch, they are immortal. They deal a damage "very really" higher than a GF just having a little less defense. A GF total defensive has higher defense, but zero damage.
2) TR: He can oneshot every class. I see rogue and mages deal 40k-60k damage... also rogue can run away, hide himself eternally or blocks opponent's skill eternally. He also is a strong melee and ranged DPS. He's very unfair.
3) CW: It is really difficult to hit him. As he see you from km of distance, he hangs you, freeze you and if you can reach him he push you. GF has luging strike but if he jump towards a cw, he simply use push aganist lunging strinke winning and pushing the GF back. ALso I see CW teleportig them while they are stunned or prone, and teleporting them many and many times as they don't need any stammina poits.
4) DC: It has many defensive skill and can run away like wizards apparently without needing any recovery.
5) GF: He can have lot of HP and defense, but against CW that hung until death and freeze, TR that stun eternally and gwf all time unstoppable that defense is really useless. The shield? Useless at back, still with slow response to user inputs, very easy to break in 2 seconds. Stuns? Ok stuns, but why I see ppl doing watherever they want while stunned? Stuns worth only in pve. Defense? Easy to "break" with armor penetration.
how well a class can survive in conjunction with how much damage they can do/kill potential simultaneously. [/B]
This is the basis of your "OP" Then of course GWFs will come out on top... They are an "Off Tank" that is also desinged to DPS. GFs will be up there as well since they have good defense and decent burst with stuns. TRs do good damage but dont survive long once discovered.
Honestly the real issue is that tene enchants allow high HP (typically Tank characters) to deal massive amounts of burst damage. So you have the tankiest characters in the game dealing the most tene damage. If you take away tene enchants, this issue would balance out ALOT.
Since they will never take them away, all you REALLY need to do is balance them and tone down the burst tene damage but you will have to buff the DPS. Since burst damage is currently just a flat necro damage, but DPS is damage per second what you need to do is just average out the damage, and give tene a "DoT" effect. This reduces burst capability but doesnt break the enchant.
This is the basis of your "OP" Then of course GWFs will come out on top... They are an "Off Tank" that is also desinged to DPS. GFs will be up there as well since they have good defense and decent burst with stuns. TRs do good damage but dont survive long once discovered.
Honestly the real issue is that tene enchants allow high HP (typically Tank characters) to deal massive amounts of burst damage. So you have the tankiest characters in the game dealing the most tene damage. If you take away tene enchants, this issue would balance out ALOT.
Since they will never take them away, all you REALLY need to do is balance them and tone down the burst tene damage but you will have to buff the DPS. Since burst damage is currently just a flat necro damage, but DPS is damage per second what you need to do is just average out the damage, and give tene a "DoT" effect. This reduces burst capability but doesnt break the enchant.
True, but its also the gear requirement. Tene's are not required to make sentinel/troll gwfs work, you dont need BIS either. The "OP" part about them is that you need multiple people to kill them sometimes, and they can just contest a point forever. If they ever get in trouble just sprint away, get a pot, and run back before point is capped to contest again.
If you do any pre vs pre matches these days each team always has a sentinel gwf now. Because they can hold a point by themselves, tenes are just icing on the cake. You have 0 chance of killing them 1v1, so you have to get multiple people to all focus them on one point of the map. This creates a huge disadvantage for you, because now the numbers are against you at every other point on the map. It's so bad to the point that each team needs this type of gwf to balance out the other.
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0
honoraryorangeMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 0Arc User
True, but its also the gear requirement. Tene's are not required to make sentinel/troll gwfs work, you dont need BIS either. The "OP" part about them is that you need multiple people to kill them sometimes, and they can just contest a point forever. If they ever get in trouble just sprint away, get a pot, and run back before point is capped to contest again.
If you do any pre vs pre matches these days each team always has a sentinel gwf now. Because they can hold a point by themselves, tenes are just icing on the cake. You have 0 chance of killing them 1v1, so you have to get multiple people to all focus them on one point of the map. This creates a huge disadvantage for you, because now the numbers are against you at every other point on the map. It's so bad to the point that each team needs this type of gwf to balance out the other.
0 chance of killing them 1v1? Not really, you just have to play smart. I smash them pretty regularly as a CW though it is, by far, the hardest fight. (Though a very well played perma stealth TR can be equally difficult if I don't have the right powers on my bar or they get a string of crits.)
Comments
Actually you crack me up saying rogues are zero skill...
How come other CW's seem to be able to hunt rogues but you cant? I mean since you are so uber skilled and all?
Go solo the boss why everyone else worries about adds, post the video link and show me how "skilled" you are.
Proofs in the pudding. Don't talk trash about all your skills if you cant back it up.
Cus as Tommy Lee Jones said in MIB.
"Let me tell me you about your skills, as of right now, they mean HAMSTER."
Yes the rogue is a low skill requirement class.
In PVE the Bosses in this game are stupidly easy targets. It
bad troll attempt thus learn to play
this coming from a gwf/tr/cw/gf In lemonade stand.
I really disagree...
my rank is:
1) GWF: i'm not sure, f gwf or rogue, but gwf after patch is immortal. He can use unstoppable every 2 seconds and if low hp, run away at the speed of light. After "balance" (really!?) patch, they are immortal. They deal a damage "very really" higher than a GF just having a little less defense. A GF total defensive has higher defense, but zero damage.
2) TR: He can oneshot every class. I see rogue and mages deal 40k-60k damage... also rogue can run away, hide himself eternally or blocks opponent's skill eternally. He also is a strong melee and ranged DPS. He's very unfair.
3) CW: It is really difficult to hit him. As he see you from km of distance, he hangs you, freeze you and if you can reach him he push you. GF has luging strike but if he jump towards a cw, he simply use push aganist lunging strinke winning and pushing the GF back. ALso I see CW teleportig them while they are stunned or prone, and teleporting them many and many times as they don't need any stammina poits.
4) DC: It has many defensive skill and can run away like wizards apparently without needing any recovery.
5) GF: He can have lot of HP and defense, but against CW that hung until death and freeze, TR that stun eternally and gwf all time unstoppable that defense is really useless. The shield? Useless at back, still with slow response to user inputs, very easy to break in 2 seconds. Stuns? Ok stuns, but why I see ppl doing watherever they want while stunned? Stuns worth only in pve. Defense? Easy to "break" with armor penetration.
I'm finding this hard to take seriously, you trolling me bro? TR's stunning eternally? Whaa??? Stuns only good in pve? Whaa???!! Shield useless? Whaa???
What GF's you playing with?
This is me a while back, Conq specced, very squishy, rarely ever crit, dont use knights challenge, dont even have BIS, best I have slotted are a few regular tenebs(not greaters) and a lesser soulforge:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-GfSP8m8ubo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fSlaiAS8YEg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k-Ps4KBqlIs
I don't know what GF's you play with/against but its very easy with average gear and proper build for GF's to be very powerful. If it wasnt for the stealth-ranged meta at 60 we would rank above rogues easily.
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Why thank you sir
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GWF > TR = GF > CW = DC
Not that least useful does not mean thet are useless, just that their strengths do not compensate for their weaknesses.
wat?
10char
This is the basis of your "OP" Then of course GWFs will come out on top... They are an "Off Tank" that is also desinged to DPS. GFs will be up there as well since they have good defense and decent burst with stuns. TRs do good damage but dont survive long once discovered.
Honestly the real issue is that tene enchants allow high HP (typically Tank characters) to deal massive amounts of burst damage. So you have the tankiest characters in the game dealing the most tene damage. If you take away tene enchants, this issue would balance out ALOT.
Since they will never take them away, all you REALLY need to do is balance them and tone down the burst tene damage but you will have to buff the DPS. Since burst damage is currently just a flat necro damage, but DPS is damage per second what you need to do is just average out the damage, and give tene a "DoT" effect. This reduces burst capability but doesnt break the enchant.
True, but its also the gear requirement. Tene's are not required to make sentinel/troll gwfs work, you dont need BIS either. The "OP" part about them is that you need multiple people to kill them sometimes, and they can just contest a point forever. If they ever get in trouble just sprint away, get a pot, and run back before point is capped to contest again.
If you do any pre vs pre matches these days each team always has a sentinel gwf now. Because they can hold a point by themselves, tenes are just icing on the cake. You have 0 chance of killing them 1v1, so you have to get multiple people to all focus them on one point of the map. This creates a huge disadvantage for you, because now the numbers are against you at every other point on the map. It's so bad to the point that each team needs this type of gwf to balance out the other.
* TWITCH * YOUTUBE * MY GUIDES *
0 chance of killing them 1v1? Not really, you just have to play smart. I smash them pretty regularly as a CW though it is, by far, the hardest fight. (Though a very well played perma stealth TR can be equally difficult if I don't have the right powers on my bar or they get a string of crits.)