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Class "OP'ness" in PvP
gctrl
Member Posts: 459 Arc User
Most "OP" in terms of survivability, damage potential and gear requirement.
' | '
1) GWF <- Still were the best pre-gwf buff patch.
2) TR
3) GF
4) CW
5) DC
' | '
Least "OP" in terms of survivability, damage potential and gear requirement.
If you do not agree with this order then you are either in denial or clueless as to what is happening in real high level pvp. If you don't feel you're in denial or clueless, please let us all know why. Thanks.
EDIT: Notice how I put "OP" in quotations, its a very loose term. In this game and probably MMO's in general, there are usually only a few things that are truly overpowered. For the most part though, you just need to talk about how well a class can survive in conjunction with how much damage they can do/kill potential simultaneously. Another to focus on when determining the strength of a build/playstyle is the gear requirement needed in order to make it viable.
If you don't strike somewhat of a balance between these various factors you will end up with something either too weak or too strong.
' | '
1) GWF <- Still were the best pre-gwf buff patch.
2) TR
3) GF
4) CW
5) DC
' | '
Least "OP" in terms of survivability, damage potential and gear requirement.
If you do not agree with this order then you are either in denial or clueless as to what is happening in real high level pvp. If you don't feel you're in denial or clueless, please let us all know why. Thanks.
EDIT: Notice how I put "OP" in quotations, its a very loose term. In this game and probably MMO's in general, there are usually only a few things that are truly overpowered. For the most part though, you just need to talk about how well a class can survive in conjunction with how much damage they can do/kill potential simultaneously. Another to focus on when determining the strength of a build/playstyle is the gear requirement needed in order to make it viable.
If you don't strike somewhat of a balance between these various factors you will end up with something either too weak or too strong.
Post edited by gctrl on
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Comments
I agree with my fellow guildie here. TRs are off the charts as well. With greater vorpal and lurker's up, I did 48k total damage on a dummy spamming CoS from stealth...
This was the best condescending wonka you could come up with? Try again.
* TWITCH * YOUTUBE * MY GUIDES *
The only op things are broken enchants.
The classes without enchants are balanced.
I'd say that TR and GF contends the 2nd place depending on build...
This better? Not like you want to discuss your opinion...
If you encompass all the relevant builds being used today, with the best gear and enchants, TR wins hands down.
* TWITCH * YOUTUBE * MY GUIDES *
Not true, GWF's would still be at the top. And what enchants are you referring to? You realize that there are other enchants besides tenebs right? TR armor pen builds are just as strong if not stronger than stacking tenebs for example.
* TWITCH * YOUTUBE * MY GUIDES *
High level GWFs are virtually impossible to kill without either bursting them down or getting them prone and hoping you can kill them before they get back up and pop unstoppable. They completely dictate the flow of any match; you need to send either a rogue or GF to burst them down, thereby weakening your presense around the rest of the map. And that's just from one GWF. Imagine if there's two? Three?
Is it even worth mentioning 25k non crits from Guardian Fighters?
The main problem with PVP, aside from the lack of decent matchmaking, is that PVE gear completely dominates it. Once you've acquired all your amazing gear/enchants from farming/buying from AH, you can hop into PVP and wreak havoc. This is not good. PVE gear should not allow people to utterly dominate PVP matches.
People are clamoring for flat damage damage reduction, which isn't enough. The way to fix this is to make PVE gear "less effective" in PVP; perhaps a "diminishing return" on damage of sorts. In other words, the damage you do/survivability you have with a full PVP set is what most PVP matches should be, regardless of your PVE gear/enchants. More PVP gear should be released, with PVP-only stats, such as flat CC reduction. And, of course, Unstoppable clearly needs to be nerfed on GWF.
If you don't know how to play then your opinion doesn't matter. And enchantments are part of the game, but even without enchantments GWF is still at the top and can pretty much do the same thing they already do in terms of contesting points and mitigating damage, they just wont have the insane burst damage to come along with it from tenebs.
* TWITCH * YOUTUBE * MY GUIDES *
Right, I'm a newbie because I disagree with you. How dare I?
Have a match against 3 stacked sentinel GWFs and tell me how that goes. Our 3v3 or 4v4 premades that our guild does vs Lemonade Stand agree to no more than 2 GWFs on a team. I wonder why.
I'm speaking in generalities, not talking to you specifically. If someone doesn't know how to play this game, then their opinions on class balance hold little credibility.
* TWITCH * YOUTUBE * MY GUIDES *
He already told you from the start that if you have a different opinion of his opinion he would call you a ****... He even bolded and increased the font size in case you missed it.
Who can hold a point on the map BY HIMSELF, survive forever 1v1, which requires at least 2 (sometimes 3) people to go kill him. Still OP.
* TWITCH * YOUTUBE * MY GUIDES *
On that I fully agree.
Tank specced GF,GWF and good clerics.
But without teneb's the 2 tanks cant kill anyone either.
And I am neither of those things you claim, in your single opinion, of people whom disagree with you.
I play a TR and CW at pro level.
I also have a DC I play that makes me a bit nervous because she is just a punching bag.
What makes PvP unbalanced is definitely the enchantments and Pay to Win builds of some classes with these enchantments, playing against players not geared on a similar level.
A Pay to win GF, TR and GWF is just downright filthy...all share Number one positions. BEcause of the Pay to Win build. Greater Vorpal's, Greater Plaguefire's, Greater Tenebrous and Greater Soulforged on these characters.
On Mindflayer there are 2 rogues, Sweet and Sour Candy.... Full out pay to win. Each character has over 20 million in build on them.
A guild, XTREME, also has a few pay to win characters.
the problem lies in the matchmaking...
If characters want to pay to win and gear thier characters out to the teeth with no effort except clicking buttons and buying stuff from auction house, or hacking to get said items...
Let them play against characters with a similar gear score and similar build. I bet my dime to your dollar, they won't be gloating about how Leet they are anymore when going against characters with similar builds.
Do PvP matchmaking based on Gearscore...
11k+ : Tier A
9.5 - 10.9 : tier B
8.0- 9.4 : Tier C
Under 8: Tier D
Best.
Idea.
Ever.
But different tiers wont come.
PWE makes money of those 'leet players'.
The only way to get to the unbiased truth is to review Neverwinter logs but since you are posting your opinion it is biased to your experiences. I've seen GF, GWF, TR and CW all at the top of the kill charts with 20+ kills. From my EXPERIENCE doing PvP matches I would say that each of the four classes are more or less equal in terms of the number of POTENTIAL kills. Character gear, teamwork and player skill would most likely make more of a difference than which of the four classes you pick.
DC is the only class that I've NEVER seen with significant number of kills.
You are the reason for many redicilous nerfs on classes.
That makes them further from D&D book universe, and that isnt fun for a theory build planner like me - who doesnt pvp / pve ever.
Incase you dont know ... all classes got their strong side ( OP ) and their weaknesses.
For your info try cap 1 off all classes, then you in my mind earned the right to cry OP and nerf plz.
I agree if they are not gonna tone down the effects of the enchants then a better gear match system needs to be put in place. As it is now if a team runs out and you can tell they are PAY TO WIN builds then most of your team just quits. This is not fun PvP for ANYONE!
In PvP right now its Astral Diamonds talk BS walks.
Matchmaking is a great idea, but it doesn't solve the problem of how dull and vapid PVP is with these insanely durable, insanely damaging classes with chain CC. Matches at lower level are more fun, because it doesn't come down to trying to instantly kill a target or frantically trying to avoid the beginning of a chain CC combo. Making PVE gear irrelevant in PVP is the way to go.
I'm a CW in Xtreme (Soul Fist), and I've paid no real money for anything in the game. I've been playing since open beta (not a founder) and I've farmed about 9/10 pieces of my gear myself. I do agree that PVP dominance shouldn't come from having the top PVE gear/top enchants, though.
Sup Soul...
My Rogue is Svetlana Anesjka
CW is Si`Nafey Dalharen
I have gone against you a few times, finally winning against your guild this morning. You had a CW that was pretty bad during that event.. 1 kill / 18 deaths... must have been a alt or something.
I wont drop names specifically, but your guild has a GF with Greater Tenebrous and Greater Plaguefire... also a rogue as well with GT, Gr. Tene, Gr. Soulforged and Gr. Vorp iirc... With those 2 I am sure there are others.... to be specific, that is what I was referring to.
2) TR
3) GF
4) CW
5) DC
I have one of each class. All with 11k+ GS. All with > 1000 kills (TR and CW with 5k+).
After the last patch buffing the fighters this list is totally correct for top geared characters (12k+ GS, greater or better soulforged, greater or better vorpal/plaguefire). The fighters don't really come into their own without gear. TR is quite powerful even at 9k GS. CW is viable at 10k or so. I rarely get on my DC to PvP after my 1k kill. Just not my style.
I have move my set of Greater Teneb to my GWF. It is quite amazing right now. I'm not saying it is balanced. The current PvP situation is far from balanced. GWF is super fun at the moment though. I have gone 4v1 and won when I Pug.
The top three can all be brought into line with increased CDs for key skills in PvP only. I wouldn't mess with PvE performance.
I will be sorry to see the current GWF play style go, though. You feel like a hero out of legend wading into enemies hip deep swinging your sword, taking the hits, laughing and slaying.
It's easy to farm CN and sell the drops on the AH. There are 2 TRs in my guild that have rank 8/9 enchants, full T2, greater soulforged, greater plague fire, greater tenebrous and a perfect vorpal and all they did was CN runs.