test content
What is the Arc Client?
Install Arc

Class "OP'ness" in PvP

1235

Comments

  • uncag3duncag3d Member Posts: 6 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    gctrl wrote: »
    Most "OP" in terms of survivability and damage potential.
    ' | '
    1) GWF <- Still were the best pre-gwf buff patch.
    2) TR
    3) GF
    4) CW
    5) DC
    ' | '
    Least "OP" in terms of survivability and damage potential.

    If you do not agree with this order then you are either in denial or clueless as to what is happening in real high level pvp. If you don't feel you're in denial or clueless, please let us all know why.

    Thanks.

    edit: Notice how I put "OP" in quotations, its a very loose term. In this game and probably MMO's in general, there are usually only a few things that are truly overpowered. For the most part though, you just need to talk about how well a class can survive in conjunction with how much damage they can do/kill potential simultaneously.

    Gwf hands down unbeatable if endgame built

    Tr/Gf close match

    Dc i think is next considering CW is litterally a free kill atm
    FearITsSelf #1 GF
    From #1 Guild Pve/Pvp [ Lemonade Stand ]
  • alaerickalaerick Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 166 Bounty Hunter
    edited July 2013
    Hit that GF with EF,repel and then knock him down with ice knife. Proceed to mount up and flee to fetch enforcements.
    masu84 wrote: »
    Dodge the encounters of the GF, which has only 2 stuns instead of GWF (3 at all...). Then the GF has nothing more than his at wills for the next 10sec.

    The GF isnt immune to CC effects most of the time (GWF:Unstoppable!). The GF doesnt have that same movement speed. The GF is not able to heal himself as GWF (well the GF's daily is a waste of time in PvP for healing).

    Tossing out Repel against a GF is pointless as they are immune to it unless stupid. Same with choke, and every other ability you throw at them. Unlike an GWF you can't really dodge their opening stun either. Once they hit it even if you press dodge you are knocked prone. A GWF has a long animation before the "action" counts in a fight. So let's say I hit my Takedown on my GWF. The opening animation is fully completed and the final anmiation nearly completed.. The CW/DC/Rogue hits dodge/teleport and it still misses. Even tho my full animation cycle was completed before they started theirs. No such luck with a GF. Unstoppable cannot be used when prone. Even a smart DC can mess a GWF's day up by knocking them prone and having their dodges..

    And to top it off a GWF has literally "NO DODGES" and "NO BLOCK". If you are tossing out your prone abilities at the start of a fight vs a GWF then that's why you are losing you should save it for right before they die when you know they will use unstoppable. Bam dead GWF.

    Not to mention unlike a GF or TR, GWF can be CC'd non stop until you force them to use unstoppable. They can be kited through the entire unstoppable if you know what you are doing. I won't lie and say GWF are not beasts in pvp... but any well played class can be. But they are one of the easiest classes to deal with if you know how.

    Seriously I get it that rogues have a hard time with GWF but they are not hard for a CW or a well played GF. This is more of a L2P issue here tho. Rogues attack a GWF like they would any other class and stand there soaking the damage when they don't get an instant kill on them. I can't tell you how many rogues just stand there and stare at me as I wail on them when I hit unstoppable right after they do their opening stun attack. Maybe if rogues didn't kill all the other classes so easily they'd be better prepared to fight a GWF and actually you know.. change up their tactics.
    A beautiful death awaits you...
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    -Foundry-
    Campaign: The Battle of Neverwinter - NWS-DOQXFA4ZD
    Prologue: A not so simple plan - NW-DCJG75B9D
  • modimormodimor Member Posts: 198 Bounty Hunter
    edited July 2013
    GF tops the chart by miles tbh, they hit almoast as hard as TR's with almoast 2x their hp and 2x mitigration. Sure a TR can stay alive very long in stealth IF they don't **** up. GWF are gonna be screwed over once they nerf the proc rate of Tenne. Sure they still gonna be able to take a beating, but they will lose a ****load of their dmg. DC's are by far the worst. They can't take a hit, they can't break cc, they can't go up 1 vs 1 against any other class in dps mode unless they are lucky enough to have their Daily ready. CW's can atleast CC from range.
  • trilogy8trilogy8 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    How about instead of complaining about the classes, go get better at the game. If you are good enough you can beat any class. And if you try to say you are already amazing at the game, then please tell me why you are complaining about classes. The best pvpers play the game without complaint because they dominate. If you struggle against a class then you are doing something wrong, there's a way to win every time, just figure it out. Hate seeing people QQ about classes on the forums, quit or learn to beat them.
  • chabowbieschabowbies Member Posts: 3 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    Itt: rocks mad at paper. Ext.
    INB4, INB4
  • vetcorevetcore Member Posts: 35 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    I pvp from time to time as a gf and after the latest patches TRs CWs and DCs looks like this:D
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NfMB88KalsY
  • lednaillednail Member Posts: 99
    edited July 2013
    forum mods are OP.. openly biased with "no personal accounts with guild affilations" watch as they cover up the truth! We' re all going to die!
  • gctrlgctrl Member Posts: 459 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    trilogy8 wrote: »
    How about instead of complaining about the classes, go get better at the game. If you are good enough you can beat any class. And if you try to say you are already amazing at the game, then please tell me why you are complaining about classes. The best pvpers play the game without complaint because they dominate. If you struggle against a class then you are doing something wrong, there's a way to win every time, just figure it out. Hate seeing people QQ about classes on the forums, quit or learn to beat them.

    Where in my original post did I complain about anything? It's a simple list, settle down.
    Guild: Lemonade Stand | Server: Dragon (Original) | PvP Forever | 1og0s
    * TWITCH * YOUTUBE * MY GUIDES *
  • gctrlgctrl Member Posts: 459 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    modimor wrote: »
    GF tops the chart by miles tbh they hit almoast as hard as TR's with almoast 2x their hp and 2x mitigration.

    GWF has comparable damage, can survive forever (better tank than GF), and has unparalleled mobility. Meaning if they are holding a point and get in trouble, they can just run away, get a pot, and run back to contest the point again. GWF is on top, TR wins over GF because any damage a GF can do, a TR can do it from stealth while not even using a melee ability. GF is out in the open and vulnerable even with shield.
    Guild: Lemonade Stand | Server: Dragon (Original) | PvP Forever | 1og0s
    * TWITCH * YOUTUBE * MY GUIDES *
  • gctrlgctrl Member Posts: 459 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    uncag3d wrote: »
    Tr/Gf close match

    TR has the edge imo. At least you can see a GF, break through their shield or dodge their attacks. Even if they have comparable burst, TR can kill people from stealth while using a ranged ability. They're essentially a ghost running around with an automatic shotgun.
    Guild: Lemonade Stand | Server: Dragon (Original) | PvP Forever | 1og0s
    * TWITCH * YOUTUBE * MY GUIDES *
  • kabothoriginalkabothoriginal Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 465 Bounty Hunter
    edited July 2013
    gctrl wrote: »
    TR has the edge imo. At least you can see a GF, break through their shield or dodge their attacks. Even if they have comparable burst, TR can kill people from stealth while using a ranged ability. They're essentially a ghost running around with an automatic shotgun.

    You do know that TR's don't get unlimited daggers right? Once depleted it takes 36 seconds to recharge to full. This is an exaggerated ability of TR's, people act like all they do is stay stealthed and do nothing but toss daggers the entire match.
  • gctrlgctrl Member Posts: 459 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    You do know that TR's don't get unlimited daggers right? Once depleted it takes 36 seconds to recharge to full. This is an exaggerated ability of TR's, people act like all they do is stay stealthed and do nothing but toss daggers the entire match.

    CoS is 12 charges and you can unload all of them in seconds. With a minimal gs and armor pen you can be hittin for 2-3k per hit, any character will be decimated by this unless you build yourself as a tank. Let's not forget about impact shot either.

    TR's either need a stealth nerf or a damage nerf while stealthed. They are out of hand. Really they should only have 1 ranged ability not 3. This is a melee class doing the best ranged damage, it doesnt make sense.
    Guild: Lemonade Stand | Server: Dragon (Original) | PvP Forever | 1og0s
    * TWITCH * YOUTUBE * MY GUIDES *
  • huckasevenhuckaseven Banned Users Posts: 470 Bounty Hunter
    edited July 2013
    gctrl wrote: »
    CoS is 12 charges and you can unload all of them in seconds. With a minimal gs and armor pen you can be hittin for 2-3k per hit, any character will be decimated by this unless you build yourself as a tank. Let's not forget about impact shot either.

    TR's either need a stealth nerf or a damage nerf while stealthed. They are out of hand. Really they should only have 1 ranged ability not 3. This is a melee class doing the best ranged damage, it doesnt make sense.
    and dont forget to also nerf GWFs damage and defenses, GFs damage and defenses and CWs damage and CC durations cause those are more out of hand then everything the rogue has
  • gctrlgctrl Member Posts: 459 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    huckaseven wrote: »
    and dont forget to also nerf GWFs damage and defenses, GFs damage and defenses and CWs damage and CC durations cause those are more out of hand then everything the rogue has

    GWF's need a defensive nerf, GF's MAYBE need a dmg nerf but are mostly fine, their just needs to be diminishing returns on CC(In certain cases you can keep someone stunlocked for 10-12 seconds).

    CW's we're already nerfed and their cc durations are fine anyways, not to mention the fact that they are CONTROL wizards.

    DC's are fine.

    TR's are broken, they have the best melee damage in the game while simultaneously having arguably the best/most effective ranged damaged. All while being invisible and being able to dodge like other classes. Why even bother releasing the Ranger class at this point?
    Guild: Lemonade Stand | Server: Dragon (Original) | PvP Forever | 1og0s
    * TWITCH * YOUTUBE * MY GUIDES *
  • huckasevenhuckaseven Banned Users Posts: 470 Bounty Hunter
    edited July 2013
    there you were fine for a moment, then you drifted back into ragemode
  • masu84masu84 Member Posts: 134 Bounty Hunter
    edited July 2013
    This is an exaggerated ability of TR's, people act like all they do is stay stealthed and do nothing but toss daggers the entire match.

    Well its all they do. 2k damage per dagger even on a tank ... 12 daggers = dead CW.

    Its very funny here: GF is strong in PvP? Well, where are the 12908123 Tanks in PvP? If tanks would be that powerful, there must be many tanks and less TR/CW because the CW/TR quit PvP because of imba tanks.


    But wait... most GF and clerics quit PvP because it sucks for these classes because no GF or Cleric is able to kill a TR or CW (same skill and GS). Funny. I would like to see game stats:

    how many PvP-players per day (average)
    % of TR/GF/CW/Cleric/GWF
    average kills per match per class
    average damage per match per class
    preferred victim for each class
    huckaseven wrote: »
    there you were fine for a moment, then you drifted back into ragemode

    ill explain what is a "moment":

    moment starts:
    gctrl wrote: »
    GWF's need a defensive nerf, GF's MAYBE need a dmg nerf but are mostly fine, their just needs to be diminishing returns on CC(In certain cases you can keep someone stunlocked for 10-12 seconds).

    CW's we're already nerfed and their cc durations are fine anyways, not to mention the fact that they are CONTROL wizards.

    DC's are fine. ?
    moment ends


    Well... huckaseven is very happy about every nerf on other classes as long as he is able to play the imba class - thats all. Every criticism of the TR is "ragemode" for hucka. its really funny.

    Huckaseven would say: "there isnt a single wrong way driver, there are hundreds of them!!!"


    gctrl wrote: »
    (im a fullquote :D)


    Well:

    GWF need a slightly damage buff and a defense nerf. He is a "offtank" and "DD". He should not get the same damage reduction as the main tank.

    GF are fine, but their TAB skill should be redesigned (its useless in PvP and PvE).

    CWs are fine as they are. Well, the control duration is hard, but their CC skills can be dodged/blocked.

    DCs are fine, but hard to play. Good DCs are very rare!

    TR: just increase the cooldowns of the main skills which are used to play permastealth but increase the power of the skills too. Just increasing the power of shadowstrike so that the skill is useful for more than only filling stealth bar. This way TRs will use it as an allrounder: good damage and utility. +3sec cooldown (or more). Bait and switch cooldown should be increased too but should improve movement speed or something like that for a few seconds. I dont like both skills because they are totally useless in non perma stealth builds, that should be fixed. This way: no more "perma" stealth, but long stealth time. Each TR can run away at the end of stealth time. Just like GWF at end of unstoppable or GF after guardmeter is empty or ... :)
    No leaver penality in PvP!

    And here is the reason:
    ghostravyn wrote: »
    If you want people to stay for the match end even when you're sitting on a 600-10 score and you've decided to be ***-hats and spawn-camp, you need to give them a reason. Punishing them is not the answer. That's just pouring salt-acid into an already bleeding wound.
  • troljtrolj Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 3
    edited July 2013
    masu84 wrote: »
    Well its all they do. 2k damage per dagger even on a tank ... 12 daggers = dead CW.

    Its very funny here: GF is strong in PvP? Well, where are the 12908123 Tanks in PvP? If tanks would be that powerful, there must be many tanks and less TR/CW because the CW/TR quit PvP because of imba tanks.


    But wait... most GF and clerics quit PvP because it sucks for these classes because no GF or Cleric is able to kill a TR or CW (same skill and GS). Funny. I would like to see game stats:

    how many PvP-players per day (average)
    % of TR/GF/CW/Cleric/GWF
    average kills per match per class
    average damage per match per class
    preferred victim for each class

    Then you dont know how to play a GF right, provided you even have one. The once i see can face roll three people and still wreck havoc. Dont know maybe they out gear me constantly but even less skilled ones are hard. I speak from CWs perspective. I will agree GWFs are harder for TRs. The reason why GF are pain in the back - they do not have telegraphed moves. None. You see them shield face you, you try to dodge and you ether do it too late or too quick. In both cases you are cough and they will start their rag doll rotation. Usually 80% of the time i come out of it dead. GWFs and GFs are a close match right now. Its hard to say who is stronger out of two. In hands of capable player no class for those two will be an issue.

    And TRs are over rated andy CW thats worth their salt can deal with any TR even the cheese build ones. If they do 2k damage per dagger, they simply out gear you by a long shot. And besides any point about PvP here is moot, the gear will decide for you if you can win or not.
  • thatasianbradahthatasianbradah Member Posts: 22 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    gctrl wrote: »
    CoS is 12 charges and you can unload all of them in seconds. With a minimal gs and armor pen you can be hittin for 2-3k per hit, any character will be decimated by this unless you build yourself as a tank. Let's not forget about impact shot either.

    TR's either need a stealth nerf or a damage nerf while stealthed. They are out of hand. Really they should only have 1 ranged ability not 3. This is a melee class doing the best ranged damage, it doesnt make sense.

    Technically speaking, if a 11k TR was fighting 1v1 against a CW, Without Stealth, ITC, Impact Shot, and CoS, TRs would be screwed. We're not even going to include dailies in this one. CW's already have repel, enfeeble, RoF, FR, 3 tele's, and long range at wills that could send TRs to the garbage bin if the CW is skilled/geared well enough.

    Both TRs and CWs should NOT be complaining about each others class. All classes if done right are "OP" in their own ways. Unless you have never seen an "OP" of any class before, nobody can assume that any class is OP at all.
  • gctrlgctrl Member Posts: 459 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    Technically speaking, if a 11k TR was fighting 1v1 against a CW, Without Stealth, ITC, Impact Shot, and CoS, TRs would be screwed. We're not even going to include dailies in this one. CW's already have repel, enfeeble, RoF, FR, 3 tele's, and long range at wills that could send TRs to the garbage bin if the CW is skilled/geared well enough.

    Lol, isn't this obvious? The problem is that they DO have stealth, which isn't really the problem. The problem is being able to use ranged abilities (multiple times) while staying invisible.
    Both TRs and CWs should NOT be complaining about each others class. All classes if done right are "OP" in their own ways. Unless you have never seen an "OP" of any class before, nobody can assume that any class is OP at all.

    I'm neither, but regardless, there are builds that are simply too strong, you know that they are too strong because they are extremely powerful without any real gear at all. Sentinel GWFs and TR's decimating people's health in literally 3-4 seconds with CoS/Impact Shot while being invisible are the most obvious right now. You don't need anything to make a speedy tank GWF and you need barely any armor pen to make CoS hit for 2-3k everytime, which at 12 charges is 24-36k damage in a few seconds.

    The way you determine whether a certain build or class is OP is by asking the following:

    1) How good is the damage/kill potential?
    2) How good is the survivability?
    3) How good is the damage/kill potential and survivability simultaneously? (Meaning how well can you survive while doing damage at the same time.)
    4) What is the gear required to make x build/x playstyle viable?
    Guild: Lemonade Stand | Server: Dragon (Original) | PvP Forever | 1og0s
    * TWITCH * YOUTUBE * MY GUIDES *
  • s1ssys1ssy Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    huckaseven wrote: »
    there you said something which i agree with for a moment which is fine, then you dared drifting into something i dont agree with which therefore makes you a rager

    Fixed that for you.
  • huckasevenhuckaseven Banned Users Posts: 470 Bounty Hunter
    edited July 2013
    s1ssy wrote: »
    Fixed that for you.

    sadly you didnt fix it, youre just trying to defend someone who has shown multiple timesthat he has no clue about the class he is talking baout
  • alaerickalaerick Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 166 Bounty Hunter
    edited July 2013
    huckaseven wrote: »
    sadly you didnt fix it, youre just trying to defend someone who has shown multiple timesthat he has no clue about the class he is talking baout

    I lol everytime I see you post. The rogues should nominate you as head troll for the year and pay you a stipend. You must post in every single topic that has the word rogue in it. Do you search the term hourly?
    A beautiful death awaits you...
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    -Foundry-
    Campaign: The Battle of Neverwinter - NWS-DOQXFA4ZD
    Prologue: A not so simple plan - NW-DCJG75B9D
  • dravkwndravkwn Member Posts: 88
    edited July 2013
    gctrl wrote: »
    GWF's need a defensive nerf
    GWF is a melee AoE class being in melee range doing AoE getting hit lots and nerfing their defense...I just don't see it working out. If your speaking for PvP and unstoppable that just requires some team play prone tactics.
  • gctrlgctrl Member Posts: 459 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    dravkwn wrote: »
    GWF is a melee AoE class being in melee range doing AoE getting hit lots and nerfing their defense...I just don't see it working out. If your speaking for PvP and unstoppable that just requires some team play prone tactics.

    Yeah, I was speaking in generalities, the tank-meta, particularly for GWFs, is overpowered in PvP right now.
    Guild: Lemonade Stand | Server: Dragon (Original) | PvP Forever | 1og0s
    * TWITCH * YOUTUBE * MY GUIDES *
  • capgarnascapgarnas Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 500 Bounty Hunter
    edited July 2013
    huckaseven wrote: »
    sadly you didnt fix it, youre just trying to defend someone who has shown multiple timesthat he has no clue about the class he is talking baout

    This ones for Huck and his rogue LRN2Play fanboi club.

    And for your rogues that think your skilled. in PVE on boss fights you deal with one target. Just one. As a CW I have up 15-20 targets plus various red zones of AOE. I have the least amount of mitigation and have to deal with those targets while the AS is down or its a wipe. I have to protect the healer at the same time or its a wipe.

    On CN if I don't round those targets up and punt them at just the right time every time its a wipe. If we don't have them all out by a certain time its all over.

    You guys hit one target. Takes lots of skill to do that.

    I see so many rogues going for the stealth then target the CW path. Its either COS spamming or lashing blade over and over again. Rogue dies comes back does the same thing over and over again. Add in total immunity to our CCs and impact shot and its the cheapest kills you can find. Then they can go back and find a target of opportunity they can two man. This takes no skill.

    You play the zero skill class.
  • kulgribnarkulgribnar Member Posts: 84
    edited July 2013
    lednail wrote: »
    forum mods are OP.. openly biased with "no personal accounts with guild affilations" watch as they cover up the truth! We' re all going to die!


    I heard that too!
  • kabothoriginalkabothoriginal Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 465 Bounty Hunter
    edited July 2013
    capgarnas wrote: »
    This ones for Huck and his rogue LRN2Play fanboi club.

    And for your rogues that think your skilled. in PVE on boss fights you deal with one target. Just one. As a CW I have up 15-20 targets plus various red zones of AOE. I have the least amount of mitigation and have to deal with those targets while the AS is down or its a wipe. I have to protect the healer at the same time or its a wipe.

    On CN if I don't round those targets up and punt them at just the right time every time its a wipe. If we don't have them all out by a certain time its all over.

    You guys hit one target. Takes lots of skill to do that.

    I see so many rogues going for the stealth then target the CW path. Its either COS spamming or lashing blade over and over again. Rogue dies comes back does the same thing over and over again. Add in total immunity to our CCs and impact shot and its the cheapest kills you can find. Then they can go back and find a target of opportunity they can two man. This takes no skill.

    You play the zero skill class.

    Yea takes a lot of skill for 2 buttons, singularity and repel... :-/ and if you pvp stop time is added...

    Yeaaa really trying to insult? The only class that takes skill to play, is healing cleric in pvp.
  • utuwerutuwer Member Posts: 393 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    capgarnas wrote: »
    I see so many rogues going for the stealth then target the CW path. Its either COS spamming or lashing blade over and over again. Rogue dies comes back does the same thing over and over again. Add in total immunity to our CCs and impact shot and its the cheapest kills you can find. Then they can go back and find a target of opportunity they can two man. This takes no skill.

    You play the zero skill class.

    So if a class uses some specific skills, that class requires zero skill to play.

    List of rogue's encounters that deal damage:
    -Dazing Strike (CC: dazing + DPS: average)
    -Lashing Blade (DPS: Alpha strike)
    -Deft Strike (Utility: gap closer + DPS: low)
    -Blitz (a range AoE - totally useless in PvP)
    -Path of Blade (DPS: AoE)
    -Impact shot (DPS: single target)
    -Shadow Strike (Utility: refill stealth - DPS: very low)
    -Wicked Reminder (Utility: armor debuff + DPS: very low - strictly for PvE)

    Subtract Wicked reminder + Blitz, Rogues have 6 choices left for dps/utilities to choose to put on their quick-bar and those skills have to compete with ItC, smokebomb, bait n switch.

    As the result, the repeat of skills combo is inevitable. This happens to every class not just rogues.

    Your beloved CW has 10 encounters. Therefore, with your statement, CWs is also another zero skill class, isnt it?

    Please be more reasonable.
    You say 4v5 is impossible? Cool story bro.
  • capgarnascapgarnas Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 500 Bounty Hunter
    edited July 2013
    Yea takes a lot of skill for 2 buttons, singularity and repel... :-/ and if you pvp stop time is added...

    Yeaaa really trying to insult? The only class that takes skill to play, is healing cleric in pvp.

    You make me laugh. Your trolling right. You must be trolling
  • elpaleniozord01elpaleniozord01 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 28 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    gctrl wrote: »
    Yeah, I was speaking in generalities, the tank-meta, particularly for GWFs, is overpowered in PvP right now.

    Sentinels are OP in pvp, Destro/Instig are more or less fine. The problem with sentinels lies in bad scaling system and tenebrous enchantments giving them very high damage on top of ridiculous survivability(which is justified cuz its a tank spec).

    Atm damage comes mostly from weapon damage while benefit from power is hardly noticeable. Thank to this tank are able to deal roughly the same damage as dps characters, while maintaining very high survivability.

    I believe that reducing damage benefit from weapon and improve its scaling with power would fix most of existing issues. Players wouldnt be able to deal high damage without gearing for power, no longer able to stack other stats without sacrificing damage. This would bring back tanks in line, nerf permastealth rogues and tenebrous stacking in one go.
Sign In or Register to comment.