No you can't roll "need" on an item that you can't wear because, then, obviously you (that character) do not "need" it or at least not as directly as the other person on the group who is the correct class. There may be further changes to make the system fairer but you shouldn't be "needing" an item that isn't for your current character.
One prospective alteration would be to make all items that are "needed" Bind on Pick-Up. Either way "needing" for alts will suffer because there's no way to prevent players from ninja looting without a limitation on who can need.
Generally - Need = For you. Greed = To Sell.
If you are "needing" on items simply because they are for your class and you want a guaranteed drop you're doing it wrong.
There is always round robin if the group agrees to it....that's good enough imo. If the guy want's cleric items.... roll a cleric. I say let people in groups just roll greed on everything in the need before greed system....that's fine with me... the only people that do care are the ones trying to get rich... a purple comes up for cleric they roll need... they get it....a purple comes up for tr they roll need they get it and cleric doesn't have a chance.... who cares...oh nooooo.... cleric stuff is worth more... again... roll a cleric...
Now, if you have two of the same class and you are wearing something that someone else needs common decency says to me you let them have it if it's an upgrade.... yeah I know people don't always care but then again if you don't like selfish people.... don't pug.
Oh, one last edit... BOP is a terrible idea imo unless it's for the very top tier and I mean very top end game items...even then I'm not sure tbh... let people trade. One guy has a Swashbuckling ring of boogers he wants to trade a guy for an Ancient snot nullifying ring of pretension.... let em have at it..again if people want better chances of fairness and generosity... join a guild... get some pals to run dungeons with you....bop just sucks.
No, i dont have a fair chance. Expensive Dagger for TR drops, the TR got a better one but he is able to roll "need". This way he is getting the item to sell it. I have no chance.
And well, someone said that some GF items are very expensive. Well, some daggers for TR cost more than the most expensive complete GF set. Now i should start the class which is able to roll "need" on most expensive items. Otherwise im getting less AD than these classes.
Stupid system!
BoP for "need rolls"! Restricting need rolls is just unfair if BoP is missing. As i told before while BoP discussion was really hot:
change nothing or add BoP for Need-rolls!
now the actual system sucks hard... but wait... i think the developers dont play their own game because they know that it just su*ks.
You only look from one side.
What if a piece of gear dropped for YOUR class that you already have? AUTO WIN is what happens since you will be the ONLY person to roll need....
So basically, you want to be a ******bag and take loot away from those that can wear it so you can make some money? This is why the entire system was changed to begin with.
LOL
Someone is TR, he dont need an expensive TR item, but he is able to roll need. as the only TR in the party he has a 100% chance to get the item to sell it. Thats just unfair.
BoP for need rolls isnt that hard to understand, but yes, im a ninja looter because: selling one rare item gives me the chance to improve my gear. Especially if you are looking for expensive enchantments which is the most important lategame "content" its not fair that you cant sell an item because you dont have the correct class.
EVERYONE which fits the class condition will roll NEED on an expensive item. JUST EVERYONE! Even if they just wanna sell it. Well ninja looting has been changed a little bit. Now you need the correct class for ninja looting very nice.
If you really NEED something you MUST agree to BoP for need rolls. everything else is stupid.
If you want people to stay for the match end even when you're sitting on a 600-10 score and you've decided to be ***-hats and spawn-camp, you need to give them a reason. Punishing them is not the answer. That's just pouring salt-acid into an already bleeding wound.
Missing Patchnotes?! I cant roll "need" on Items i cant wear. Are they char bound if someone rolls need?! And if not: TR and CW are getting very expensive items and GFs have no chance to get these expensive items (GF items are the cheapest items in whole AH... hm well, GWF items are cheap too).
Im avoiding dungeons since i got my equipment and realized that each dungeon is the same - well the number of stupids adds of the stupid boss is the only difference! But yesterday i entered a dungeon and wasnt able to roll need on items for other classes. No great GF items dropped - and im interested if the items are char bound?!
Really???
If you are in a party, you are on a team. Ask not what your team can do for you, ask what you can do for your team!
If you are in a party, you are on a team. Ask not what your team can do for you, ask what you can do for your team!
you should invite someone called "the reality" for a cup of coffee and some cookies, i think that person would tell you some really strange things and you did not even expect that such things might exist.
But your posts includes everything which i expected from a community moderator: nothing useful, but some really tearful words. senseless, but sounds really nice.
If you want people to stay for the match end even when you're sitting on a 600-10 score and you've decided to be ***-hats and spawn-camp, you need to give them a reason. Punishing them is not the answer. That's just pouring salt-acid into an already bleeding wound.
Good changes, to STOP exactly your type of playerOP... good grief, I am not about to repeat what every other poster schooled you on the wording. Hats off to PWE on this change.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
"Sir, were now surrounded"!
Thats great news son, now we can attack from ALL sides"!
funny thing that most players seems to be totally unable to understand that a class restricted need roll without BoP for Need rolls is just stupid ****
Well yea, shame on me, im a f*cking ninja looter who want to have BoP for need rolls... LOL come on you cant be THAT stupid.
If you want people to stay for the match end even when you're sitting on a 600-10 score and you've decided to be ***-hats and spawn-camp, you need to give them a reason. Punishing them is not the answer. That's just pouring salt-acid into an already bleeding wound.
I think this was the compromise between what the players wanted and what Cryptic/PWE needed for their bottom-line. Remember that BoP items wouldn't be available on the AH (obviously.)
I like the new changes. Since they changed the ability to ninja loot other classes items, I have actually been able to progress my cleric a bit without worrying about having to buy stuff for obscene prices on Auction.
It is better like this. If you run epics on a regular basis you will notice everyone eventually walks away with some class loot. The old way we would get skunked time and time again by people who just want to make a buck. I have a 1/5 chance of some good loot dropping now. That is awesome! It is so much better then the old free for all way.
so far i enjoy the new looting mechanics. To each their own i guess.
funny thing that most players seems to be totally unable to understand that a class restricted need roll without BoP for Need rolls is just stupid ****
Well yea, shame on me, im a f*cking ninja looter who want to have BoP for need rolls... LOL come on you cant be THAT stupid.
You realize that when an item drops and it is not your class then some other class gets it unless they just greed.
When an item for your class drops and you want it then you will win it provided you are the only class in the party.
This is not rocket surgery! It is a very fair system.
I think this was the compromise between what the players wanted and what Cryptic/PWE needed for their bottom-line. Remember that BoP items wouldn't be available on the AH (obviously.)
Well OBVOUSLY... in case of BoP for need rolls everyone who just wanna sell the item, will use greed instead of need.
But actually the TR which got the most expensive items will get much more and better items to sell than other classes.
The developers wanted to add "BoP for every f*cking thing" and that stupid. thats why the community said "NO!". But the current system more stupid than the system before.
EVERYONE (with a little bit intellegence) said: BoP only for need rolls!
But well... why should i (as GF) enter a dungeon with the chance for T2 TR items?! the TR will get them all the time and the TR will sell them.
If you want people to stay for the match end even when you're sitting on a 600-10 score and you've decided to be ***-hats and spawn-camp, you need to give them a reason. Punishing them is not the answer. That's just pouring salt-acid into an already bleeding wound.
Well OBVOUSLY... in case of BoP for need rolls everyone who just wanna sell the item, will use greed instead of need.
But actually the TR which got the most expensive items will get much more and better items to sell than other classes.
The developers wanted to add "BoP for every f*cking thing" and that stupid. thats why the community said "NO!". But the current system more stupid than the system before.
EVERYONE (with a little bit intellegence) said: BoP only for need rolls!
But well... why should i (as GF) enter a dungeon with the chance for T2 TR items?! the TR will get them all the time and the TR will sell them.
What happens when GF items drop? Ohh snap...you mean you get to roll NEED on the item? *Shocked look*
Regardless of this thread my work day is over and I have no more peanuts for trolls.
I like the idea of Needing an item makes it BoP. Sometimes when I'm bored I'll run a T1 for the hell of it. Every now and then, I'll see some 10k GS out there Needing on items because it's for their class, even though they know they're going to sell it.
I would definitely like to see Need = BoP to punish these types of players. Need means you're going to wear it. Greed means you're going to sell it. If you want an item for the Alt, then you should be playing on the alt or facing an equal chance for the item.
OMG I Can't Ninja loot the entire dungeon! This game sucks! Can't even call this a game it's so pathetic I can't loot things I don't need over someone that does. Are the Devs kidding me? Dumbest game mechanic I've ever seen. I've played the best of them too and each time I was able to "need" every item in the pugs I ran. I love <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> over the people I am partied with when that Sweet purple helm drops and I take it and sell it to a vendor because its BoP. It's awesome!
I like the idea of Needing an item makes it BoP. Sometimes when I'm bored I'll run a T1 for the hell of it. Every now and then, I'll see some 10k GS out there Needing on items because it's for their class, even though they know they're going to sell it.
I would definitely like to see Need = BoP to punish these types of players. Need means you're going to wear it. Greed means you're going to sell it. If you want an item for the Alt, then you should be playing on the alt or facing an equal chance for the item.
wow yea, someone understood thx, now i believe that there might be hope
If you want people to stay for the match end even when you're sitting on a 600-10 score and you've decided to be ***-hats and spawn-camp, you need to give them a reason. Punishing them is not the answer. That's just pouring salt-acid into an already bleeding wound.
Missing Patchnotes?! I cant roll "need" on Items i cant wear. Are they char bound if someone rolls need?! And if not: TR and CW are getting very expensive items and GFs have no chance to get these expensive items (GF items are the cheapest items in whole AH... hm well, GWF items are cheap too).
Im avoiding dungeons since i got my equipment and realized that each dungeon is the same - well the number of stupids adds of the stupid boss is the only difference! But yesterday i entered a dungeon and wasnt able to roll need on items for other classes. No great GF items dropped - and im interested if the items are char bound?!
You realize that when an item drops and it is not your class then some other class gets it unless they just greed.
When an item for your class drops and you want it then you will win it provided you are the only class in the party.
This is not rocket surgery! It is a very fair system.
He is complaining that the system is flawed. It allows someone (think multiple TR in group as an example) who already has the item equipped or better to hit need when they plan to sell it. It's half assed. To do it right, it should check to see if you have the item on your person or bank and deny you the NEED button.
He really needs it, and the other guy does not, he's just being greedy.
I love how mob mentality jumps all over people on Inet forums.
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jihancritiasMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited July 2013
I agree with the op, because I understand what he is saying. I think a few others are missing what he's saying. His first post WAS a little misleading.
If I'm in a group running mad dragon, during non-dd times, there is only one reason to go. Hopefully, the stalwart helm drops. If the guardian fighter of the group has it already, and has gotten it multiple times, there is no reason he should be able to get it again, without others having a chance.
If I'm in a group running spellplague, and I already have the swashbuckling captain's helm, I'm going to roll greed on it, so everyone has a chance at something for their time. It doesn't matter if I bought the helm instead of farming it. I'm not the only one that has bought things and needs to recoup my losses. But, everyone should have that chance.
You didnt read and/or understand anything, so who is the troll?
wow yea, someone understood thx, now i believe that there might be hope
Oh, I understood it quite well. I think you're the one missing the point of the whole thing. Why do YOU have to roll NEED on any item that isn't used by your class? If a CW item drops and there isn't a CW in the group what difference does it make if you ALL roll greed on the item?
Or is it you want everyone else to roll greed first and then you can roll NEED last and guarantee your bag will be filled with the goods? Just so you can say, "Oops, sorry guys, meant to roll greed and hit #1 instead, sorry." 10 times a dungeon.
The system is good the way it is and I only wish other games would pick up on it to prevent the "accidental" tap on the wrong button. Please note that I put accidental in quotes. Anyone who's played an MMO knows how the "oops" game works. It's bull**** and you know it. So please don't try to come here and pretend that you are pointing out a flawed system for the community as a whole. No one is falling for it.
Oh, I understood it quite well. I think you're the one missing the point of the whole thing. Why do YOU have to roll NEED on any item that isn't used by your class? If a CW item drops and there isn't a CW in the group what difference does it make if you ALL roll greed on the item?
Or is it you want everyone else to roll greed first and then you can roll NEED last and guarantee your bag will be filled with the goods? Just so you can say, "Oops, sorry guys, meant to roll greed and hit #1 instead, sorry." 10 times a dungeon.
The system is good the way it is and I only wish other games would pick up on it to prevent the "accidental" tap on the wrong button. Please note that I put accidental in quotes. Anyone who's played an MMO knows how the "oops" game works. It's bull**** and you know it. So please don't try to come here and pretend that you are pointing out a flawed system for the community as a whole. No one is falling for it.
You never been a cleric frantically trying to heal people and clear loot dialogues at the same time, when some inconsiderate DPS decides he wants to loot during a fight. ^^
Problem with checking inventories is some classes need 2 sets of gear, cos the stuff I'm healing in, sucks donkey for soloing.
Bug Powder Dust: Chapter 1, 15 mins of Cleric friendly hack and slash, with a nod to Pratchett and G Naylor:- NW-DKHPBAVBO
Need should only reserved for classes that can actually use the gear.
Need should only be reserved for items that bind on pickup.
The ONLY reason that it was introduced in WoW was the soulbind on pickup items, cryptic copied the mechanic even though it makes absolutely no sense in this game because:
1. The item stats (and even icon) are hidden until using a scroll of identify All you know is its level, rarity, and slot type. So it is impossible to know if you actually need the item or not until you win it and waste a scroll of identify on it.
2. All items are AH tradable until worn for the first time.
You never been a cleric frantically trying to heal people and clear loot dialogues at the same time, when some inconsiderate DPS decides he wants to loot during a fight. ^^
Problem with checking inventories is some classes need 2 sets of gear, cos the stuff I'm healing in, sucks donkey for soloing.
I really wish that all looted green+ items be put in a pool, and held there until the final boss in the instance is defeated. Only then let players choose what to roll for.
He is complaining that the system is flawed. It allows someone (think multiple TR in group as an example) who already has the item equipped or better to hit need when they plan to sell it. It's half assed. To do it right, it should check to see if you have the item on your person or bank and deny you the NEED button.
He really needs it, and the other guy does not, he's just being greedy.
I love how mob mentality jumps all over people on Inet forums.
Now that I can agree with, if someone already has the item equipped, in the bank, in inventory, or in the AH they shouldn't be allowed to roll need.
you should invite someone called "the reality" for a cup of coffee and some cookies, i think that person would tell you some really strange things and you did not even expect that such things might exist.
But your posts includes everything which i expected from a community moderator: nothing useful, but some really tearful words. senseless, but sounds really nice.
You never been a cleric frantically trying to heal people and clear loot dialogues at the same time, when some inconsiderate DPS decides he wants to loot during a fight. ^^
Problem with checking inventories is some classes need 2 sets of gear, cos the stuff I'm healing in, sucks donkey for soloing.
Actually I play a cleric and yes, I've been in the situation you just described many times. IN those situations the timer runs down until I can make the proper choices. Here's the thing though. If it isn't for my class I usually pass anyway. Whether that is considered dumb or not I don't care. I am in most dungeons to gear up MY character. If an item drop that I have already or am wearing better I Greed on it to give others the same chance. Not everyone that runs dungeons is a greedy prick.
Now that I can agree with, if someone already has the item equipped, in the bank, in inventory, or in the AH they shouldn't be allowed to roll need.
That'd be real nice. Imagine the lag caused by this check every time an item dropped.
Item drops. System now has to check your bag and your 4 group mates bags, everyone's bank, the AH, Alts bags, Alts bank, alts AH postings etc... 1 minute later another item drops. Repeat process. How long do you think it would take to get through 1 dungeon?
That'd be real nice. Imagine the lag caused by this check every time an item dropped.
Which is why a Bind on pickup for needed items and making them unable to be unbound or sold to vendors is the simplest way of dealing with these issues.
Missing Patchnotes?! I cant roll "need" on Items i cant wear. Are they char bound if someone rolls need?! And if not: TR and CW are getting very expensive items and GFs have no chance to get these expensive items (GF items are the cheapest items in whole AH... hm well, GWF items are cheap too).
I'm thinking that this is the kind of person that the 'Bottom Feeder ' title was meant for xD
Comments
There is always round robin if the group agrees to it....that's good enough imo. If the guy want's cleric items.... roll a cleric. I say let people in groups just roll greed on everything in the need before greed system....that's fine with me... the only people that do care are the ones trying to get rich... a purple comes up for cleric they roll need... they get it....a purple comes up for tr they roll need they get it and cleric doesn't have a chance.... who cares...oh nooooo.... cleric stuff is worth more... again... roll a cleric...
Now, if you have two of the same class and you are wearing something that someone else needs common decency says to me you let them have it if it's an upgrade.... yeah I know people don't always care but then again if you don't like selfish people.... don't pug.
Oh, one last edit... BOP is a terrible idea imo unless it's for the very top tier and I mean very top end game items...even then I'm not sure tbh... let people trade. One guy has a Swashbuckling ring of boogers he wants to trade a guy for an Ancient snot nullifying ring of pretension.... let em have at it..again if people want better chances of fairness and generosity... join a guild... get some pals to run dungeons with you....bop just sucks.
You only look from one side.
What if a piece of gear dropped for YOUR class that you already have? AUTO WIN is what happens since you will be the ONLY person to roll need....
Works just fine.
LOL
Someone is TR, he dont need an expensive TR item, but he is able to roll need. as the only TR in the party he has a 100% chance to get the item to sell it. Thats just unfair.
BoP for need rolls isnt that hard to understand, but yes, im a ninja looter because: selling one rare item gives me the chance to improve my gear. Especially if you are looking for expensive enchantments which is the most important lategame "content" its not fair that you cant sell an item because you dont have the correct class.
EVERYONE which fits the class condition will roll NEED on an expensive item. JUST EVERYONE! Even if they just wanna sell it. Well ninja looting has been changed a little bit. Now you need the correct class for ninja looting
If you really NEED something you MUST agree to BoP for need rolls. everything else is stupid.
And here is the reason:
Really???
If you are in a party, you are on a team. Ask not what your team can do for you, ask what you can do for your team!
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you should invite someone called "the reality" for a cup of coffee and some cookies, i think that person would tell you some really strange things and you did not even expect that such things might exist.
But your posts includes everything which i expected from a community moderator: nothing useful, but some really tearful words. senseless, but sounds really nice.
And here is the reason:
"Sir, were now surrounded"!
Thats great news son, now we can attack from ALL sides"!
Well yea, shame on me, im a f*cking ninja looter who want to have BoP for need rolls... LOL come on you cant be THAT stupid.
And here is the reason:
It is better like this. If you run epics on a regular basis you will notice everyone eventually walks away with some class loot. The old way we would get skunked time and time again by people who just want to make a buck. I have a 1/5 chance of some good loot dropping now. That is awesome! It is so much better then the old free for all way.
so far i enjoy the new looting mechanics. To each their own i guess.
You realize that when an item drops and it is not your class then some other class gets it unless they just greed.
When an item for your class drops and you want it then you will win it provided you are the only class in the party.
This is not rocket surgery! It is a very fair system.
Well OBVOUSLY... in case of BoP for need rolls everyone who just wanna sell the item, will use greed instead of need.
But actually the TR which got the most expensive items will get much more and better items to sell than other classes.
The developers wanted to add "BoP for every f*cking thing" and that stupid. thats why the community said "NO!". But the current system more stupid than the system before.
EVERYONE (with a little bit intellegence) said: BoP only for need rolls!
But well... why should i (as GF) enter a dungeon with the chance for T2 TR items?! the TR will get them all the time and the TR will sell them.
And here is the reason:
What happens when GF items drop? Ohh snap...you mean you get to roll NEED on the item? *Shocked look*
Regardless of this thread my work day is over and I have no more peanuts for trolls.
I would definitely like to see Need = BoP to punish these types of players. Need means you're going to wear it. Greed means you're going to sell it. If you want an item for the Alt, then you should be playing on the alt or facing an equal chance for the item.
/troll
You didnt read and/or understand anything, so who is the troll?
wow yea, someone understood
And here is the reason:
One Word...
DUH
He is complaining that the system is flawed. It allows someone (think multiple TR in group as an example) who already has the item equipped or better to hit need when they plan to sell it. It's half assed. To do it right, it should check to see if you have the item on your person or bank and deny you the NEED button.
He really needs it, and the other guy does not, he's just being greedy.
I love how mob mentality jumps all over people on Inet forums.
If I'm in a group running mad dragon, during non-dd times, there is only one reason to go. Hopefully, the stalwart helm drops. If the guardian fighter of the group has it already, and has gotten it multiple times, there is no reason he should be able to get it again, without others having a chance.
If I'm in a group running spellplague, and I already have the swashbuckling captain's helm, I'm going to roll greed on it, so everyone has a chance at something for their time. It doesn't matter if I bought the helm instead of farming it. I'm not the only one that has bought things and needs to recoup my losses. But, everyone should have that chance.
BOP need rolls. Problem solved.
Oh, I understood it quite well. I think you're the one missing the point of the whole thing. Why do YOU have to roll NEED on any item that isn't used by your class? If a CW item drops and there isn't a CW in the group what difference does it make if you ALL roll greed on the item?
Or is it you want everyone else to roll greed first and then you can roll NEED last and guarantee your bag will be filled with the goods? Just so you can say, "Oops, sorry guys, meant to roll greed and hit #1 instead, sorry." 10 times a dungeon.
The system is good the way it is and I only wish other games would pick up on it to prevent the "accidental" tap on the wrong button. Please note that I put accidental in quotes. Anyone who's played an MMO knows how the "oops" game works. It's bull**** and you know it. So please don't try to come here and pretend that you are pointing out a flawed system for the community as a whole. No one is falling for it.
You never been a cleric frantically trying to heal people and clear loot dialogues at the same time, when some inconsiderate DPS decides he wants to loot during a fight. ^^
Problem with checking inventories is some classes need 2 sets of gear, cos the stuff I'm healing in, sucks donkey for soloing.
The ONLY reason that it was introduced in WoW was the soulbind on pickup items, cryptic copied the mechanic even though it makes absolutely no sense in this game because:
1. The item stats (and even icon) are hidden until using a scroll of identify All you know is its level, rarity, and slot type. So it is impossible to know if you actually need the item or not until you win it and waste a scroll of identify on it.
2. All items are AH tradable until worn for the first time.
I really wish that all looted green+ items be put in a pool, and held there until the final boss in the instance is defeated. Only then let players choose what to roll for.
Now that I can agree with, if someone already has the item equipped, in the bank, in inventory, or in the AH they shouldn't be allowed to roll need.
And here we have someone fishing for a reaction.
Actually I play a cleric and yes, I've been in the situation you just described many times. IN those situations the timer runs down until I can make the proper choices. Here's the thing though. If it isn't for my class I usually pass anyway. Whether that is considered dumb or not I don't care. I am in most dungeons to gear up MY character. If an item drop that I have already or am wearing better I Greed on it to give others the same chance. Not everyone that runs dungeons is a greedy prick.
That'd be real nice. Imagine the lag caused by this check every time an item dropped.
Item drops. System now has to check your bag and your 4 group mates bags, everyone's bank, the AH, Alts bags, Alts bank, alts AH postings etc... 1 minute later another item drops. Repeat process. How long do you think it would take to get through 1 dungeon?
Which is why a Bind on pickup for needed items and making them unable to be unbound or sold to vendors is the simplest way of dealing with these issues.
I'm thinking that this is the kind of person that the 'Bottom Feeder ' title was meant for xD