hobieoneMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited June 2013
well, after seeing today's patch i think gf should be #1 they are gonna be a real pain in the you know what to bring down by any class in pvp now. followed be either tr or gwf depending on build and the rest of the order would be correct.
It's easy to farm CN and sell the drops on the AH. There are 2 TRs in my guild that have rank 8/9 enchants, full T2, greater soulforged, greater plague fire, greater tenebrous and a perfect vorpal and all they did was CN runs.
Good point. Although many people skipped the farming and paid to speed it up I do get your point. Thanks for a good argument with no flaming.
0
zeisselMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 8Arc User
honestly stop crying, plz...
You are the reason for many redicilous nerfs on classes.
That makes them further from D&D book universe, and that isnt fun for a theory build planner like me - who doesnt pvp / pve ever.
Incase you dont know ... all classes got their strong side ( OP ) and their weaknesses.
For your info try cap 1 off all classes, then you in my mind earned the right to cry OP and nerf plz.
It's easy to farm CN and sell the drops on the AH. There are 2 TRs in my guild that have rank 8/9 enchants, full T2, greater soulforged, greater plague fire, greater tenebrous and a perfect vorpal and all they did was CN runs.
Indeed. Even more benefical if you ran it a month ago when drops went for 7 mil.
I think what he means is calling people pay to win is just making an excuse for your loss, instead of compensating for skill, which I agree with a bit.
However, I won't deny that skill won't help you if you are outclassed by gear, or class choice for that matter. Matchmaking would solve the mismatch of gear, but it wouldn't solve the burst/CC fest of "high level" PVP.
My vision for good PVP in this game is a level playing field for all level 60s where PVE gear/enchants are irrelevant. If gear is equalized, then it does become all about skill, which is what I value in competition against other players.
I understand but my point was simply that if you are out geared all the skill in the world will not help you. I mean I catch a perma invis tene plaguefire rogue now and again and light them up and my gear is not very good. However most of the time he is going to win by default simply based on gear.
i agree GF is the most balanced one XD (?) it is just in the middle of them all XD, i also agree with other comments enchants are making the difference, but usually in all games equip is going to always make a difference however i think here only the damage equip is being taken in consideration if we have Tene enchants why don;t we have something similar for Damage reduction in the same way i mean if i can increase the damae with enchant why i cannot reduce inthe same proportional way with stacks and stuff think about it at the end it all comes to the enchants and equip set that you have you can go for a DPS combination and thats it, there is no great powerful resistance combination that can counter the DPS one, for intance a full geared 12k TR with powerfull enchants as they say can 1 hit kill someone attach a DC with a similar set/enchants for damage reduction then the DC should not die in one Hit it should be able to resist at least 2 of the same kind of hit (even if requires the TR to build up AP to do dailys and try to kill it) so our PVP can be more fun cause you will have full DPS and full resistance builds even with GF you would be able to truly tank like that and also have the option to be dps if you want and well to be hybrid it will be more complicated at least in PVP
Everything works out in the end . If it hasn't worked out yet, it isn't the end...
And I am neither of those things you claim, in your single opinion, of people whom disagree with you.
I play a TR and CW at pro level.
I also have a DC I play that makes me a bit nervous because she is just a punching bag.
What makes PvP unbalanced is definitely the enchantments and Pay to Win builds of some classes with these enchantments, playing against players not geared on a similar level.
A Pay to win GF, TR and GWF is just downright filthy...all share Number one positions. BEcause of the Pay to Win build. Greater Vorpal's, Greater Plaguefire's, Greater Tenebrous and Greater Soulforged on these characters.
On Mindflayer there are 2 rogues, Sweet and Sour Candy.... Full out pay to win. Each character has over 20 million in build on them.
A guild, XTREME, also has a few pay to win characters.
the problem lies in the matchmaking...
If characters want to pay to win and gear thier characters out to the teeth with no effort except clicking buttons and buying stuff from auction house, or hacking to get said items...
Let them play against characters with a similar gear score and similar build. I bet my dime to your dollar, they won't be gloating about how Leet they are anymore when going against characters with similar builds.
Do PvP matchmaking based on Gearscore...
11k+ : Tier A
9.5 - 10.9 : tier B
8.0- 9.4 : Tier C
Under 8: Tier D
Pay to win? Pay to win what? It's ridiculous to use that term, its a misnomer. You're not winning anything, and if you're paying for something, its simply convenience. There is no such thing as P2W.
ps. "Pay to win build" is probably the silliest thing I've ever read on these forums.
Guild: Lemonade Stand | Server: Dragon (Original) | PvP Forever | 1og0s * TWITCH * YOUTUBE * MY GUIDES *
well, after seeing today's patch i think gf should be #1 they are gonna be a real pain in the you know what to bring down by any class in pvp now. followed be either tr or gwf depending on build and the rest of the order would be correct.
The only thing the patch notes say is that a single hit that does more dmg than a GF can block will only take away the block meter, not kill them as well. This is more an issue in pve than in pvp. The only exception I can think of are some rogue skills that rip straight through block like a knife through butter.
It's easy to exploit. "Solo runs" in CN and sell the drops on the AH
fixed?
But, seriously, you can't deny the pay-to-win nature of the game when it takes 85 coalescent wards to reach perfect enchants. They are sadly the endgame. But I'm sure the people that exploited think differently.
Oh, and trying to get them coalescents through invoking isn't realistic unless you are botting 100s of accounts, which again would be cheating. And, even then it would take a while with the low chance..
Also, GS doesn't count for much, some of the best items in pvp are blues that will give you a relatively low GS. The biggest imbalance is caused by enchants.
After playing 7 chars extensively and much AH trading I did gear a couple chars to T2 and medium epic enchants, plus have a bunch of rank 7s of the regular ones lying around which I never got around using.. Just it's not for me. Winning thanks to gear feels empty, so it's back to more skill based games for me.
Besides most people in the guilds I've been in have quit and I mean guilds with 100s of 60s. That's most likely what happened to the game as a whole.
If you do pvp much, you'd have noticed it's becoming mostly the same people, same bots, plus a few fresh 60s which might end up quitting it soon enough.
After playing 7 chars extensively and much AH trading I did gear a couple chars to T2 and medium epic enchants, plus have a bunch of rank 7s of the regular ones lying around which I never got around using.. Just it's not for me.
Another example of why there is no such thing as "Pay to Win". You pay for convenience, that is all.
And really, what is the difference between having a full time job, paying for ad or playing the game full time and making ad on the ah? Experience, thats it. If you play all the time you have more experience and are more likely to be a better player than someone who pays for everything. But the work you put into getting it is the same. Someone who is working a job from 9-5 is working just as hard as someone whose playing the game 9-5.
Winning thanks to gear feels empty, so it's back to more skill based games for me.
Then play against people with equal/similar gear as yours, it will get rid of some of that empty feeling.
I stomp people in pubs when I solo q or are with my guildies. It gets boring after a while, this is why you coordinate with other guilds and do premade vs premade, 1v1s, or even in house matches with all your guildmates. There are ways to have rewarding pvp in this game despite what you may think.
Guild: Lemonade Stand | Server: Dragon (Original) | PvP Forever | 1og0s * TWITCH * YOUTUBE * MY GUIDES *
Pay to win? Pay to win what? It's ridiculous to use that term, its a misnomer. You're not winning anything, and if you're paying for something, its simply convenience. There is no such thing as P2W.
ps. "Pay to win build" is probably the silliest thing I've ever read on these forums.
You seem like a very angry person when someone disagree's with you.
There are medications for that.
Most "OP" in terms of survivability and damage potential.
' | '
1) GWF
2) TR
3) GF
4) CW
5) or DC
' | '
Least "OP" in terms of survivability and damage potential.
If you do not agree with this order then you are either in denial or clueless to what is happening in real high level pvp.
Thanks.
.
GWF have a much higher survivability now so what? They have the same damage just now they have an opportunity to kick your *** for a longer time. The GWF was that weakest and most underpowered class since the start of the game and now that they fix it a little bit your complaining and calling it the most OP class? Let me tell you something about OP and broken... a GF with 15.5k GS with worse enchantments and gear than me.... Oh and they will kill you in a heart beat by just pushing you around like a **** doll without you being able to stand up... That's broken and OP every other class is actually pretty **** good. So stop complaining and thinking that you know so **** much when you know nothing ****.
You seem like a very angry person when someone disagree's with you.
There are medications for that.
Lol, that's the spirit, try to discern my personality/general disposition from a few lines of text on the internet. Bravo, your arm-chair psychology is impressive, I'll go let my therapist know she's wasting time actually sitting down and getting to know her patients.
Guild: Lemonade Stand | Server: Dragon (Original) | PvP Forever | 1og0s * TWITCH * YOUTUBE * MY GUIDES *
.
GWF have a much higher survivability now so what? They have the same damage just now they have an opportunity to kick your *** for a longer time. The GWF was that weakest and most underpowered class since the start of the game and now that they fix it a little bit your complaining and calling it the most OP class? Let me tell you something about OP and broken... a GF with 15.5k GS with worse enchantments and gear than me.... Oh and they will kill you in a heart beat by just pushing you around like a **** doll without you being able to stand up... That's broken and OP every other class is actually pretty **** good. So stop complaining and thinking that you know so **** much when you know nothing ****.
Wrong, they have always had the highest survivability, you were just never aware of it because only a handful of people understood this. GWF's in fact were never broken or needed work at all, so the buffs they recently got just made them even more powerful than they already were.
Fortunately for those handful of players that knew how to build/play GWF correctly, they are even more powerful now because of crybabies like yourself on forums who never fully understood the potential of the class.
Isn't that ironic? The most over powered class was and probably still is the most complained about class on the forums for being underpowered. And the dev's listen, thats the sad part.
Guild: Lemonade Stand | Server: Dragon (Original) | PvP Forever | 1og0s * TWITCH * YOUTUBE * MY GUIDES *
.
GWF have a much higher survivability now so what? They have the same damage just now they have an opportunity to kick your *** for a longer time. The GWF was that weakest and most underpowered class since the start of the game and now that they fix it a little bit your complaining and calling it the most OP class? Let me tell you something about OP and broken... a GF with 15.5k GS with worse enchantments and gear than me.... Oh and they will kill you in a heart beat by just pushing you around like a **** doll without you being able to stand up... That's broken and OP every other class is actually pretty **** good. So stop complaining and thinking that you know so **** much when you know nothing ****.
GWF getting so much hate since the patch. They were gimped and now they're OP. Times have certainly changed.
GWF getting so much hate since the patch. They were gimped and now they're OP. Times have certainly changed.
They were never gimp, unfortunately only a handful of players understood this.
Very similar to all the people who use to be complaining about GF's being useless in pvp until they started seeing builds like mine and Envy's.
This is the problem that every MMO faces these days, where the general population does not fully realize the potential of their class, goes on the forums to complain, the dev's listen to them and make changes, game slowly gets ruined over time.
Good players will always succeed with what you give them, when they don't succeed is when you should start making changes to a game.
Guild: Lemonade Stand | Server: Dragon (Original) | PvP Forever | 1og0s * TWITCH * YOUTUBE * MY GUIDES *
They were never gimp, unfortunately only a handful of players understood this.
Very similar to all the people who use to be complaining about GF's being useless in pvp until they started seeing builds like mine and Envy's.
This is the problem that every MMO faces these days, where the general population does not fully realize the potential of their class, goes on the forums to complain, the dev's listen to them and make changes, game slowly gets ruined over time.
Good players will always succeed with what you give them, when they don't succeed is when you should start making changes to a game.
Not quite true, before the patch GWFs were a bit gimped. their earlier levels were painful. They did however scale into later levels ok. but lots of people gave up on them before 40, brushing them off as too weak.
Also, on this topic, putting Clerics at the bottom of the list just seems wrong to me. Yeah sure, a cleric will loose a 1v1 against any other class, but they are team players, and they do that job unmatched. A cleric + GWF will beat two GWFs
Rogues are also highly over rated, mages still outclass them.
Everyone seems to think this is all about 1v1 fighting, Its not. Its a team game, and classes like Clerics and CWs offer a lot of team utility that wins games.
Not quite true, before the patch GWFs were a bit gimped. their earlier levels were painful. They did however scale into later levels ok. but lots of people gave up on them before 40, brushing them off as too weak.
Also, on this topic, putting Clerics at the bottom of the list just seems wrong to me. Yeah sure, a cleric will loose a 1v1 against any other class, but they are team players, and they do that job unmatched. A cleric + GWF will beat two GWFs
Rogues are also highly over rated, mages still outclass them.
Everyone seems to think this is all about 1v1 fighting, Its not. Its a team game, and classes like Clerics and CWs offer a lot of team utility that wins games.
When did I ever say this was about 1v1's?
Guild: Lemonade Stand | Server: Dragon (Original) | PvP Forever | 1og0s * TWITCH * YOUTUBE * MY GUIDES *
Not quite true, before the patch GWFs were a bit gimped. their earlier levels were painful. They did however scale into later levels ok. but lots of people gave up on them before 40, brushing them off as too weak.
Also, on this topic, putting Clerics at the bottom of the list just seems wrong to me. Yeah sure, a cleric will loose a 1v1 against any other class, but they are team players, and they do that job unmatched. A cleric + GWF will beat two GWFs
Rogues are also highly over rated, mages still outclass them.
Everyone seems to think this is all about 1v1 fighting, Its not. Its a team game, and classes like Clerics and CWs offer a lot of team utility that wins games.
I beg to differ as my guildie can testify to what I have done as a geared out burst TR. At the beginning of a match and the mad rush to mid, I can pop lurker's and oneshot someone with lashing blade from stealth and take out two more with CoS spam all in under 10 seconds.
All classes are OP if geared and played correctly. Thats what i like about this game. Every match is basically wotlk-era ret pallies vs wotlk-era ret pallies Dcs do get the short end of the stick in the murdering department, but they are healer/support chars. Group them with any other class and the pair is almost unstoppable.
At OP, opinion =\= fact. Mmo forums make me wish debate was a mandatory class in high school. You cannot state an opinion as an absolute.
All classes are OP if geared and played correctly. Thats what i like about this game. Every match is basically wotlk-era ret pallies vs wotlk-era ret pallies Dcs do get the short end of the stick in the murdering department, but they are healer/support chars. Group them with any other class and the pair is almost unstoppable.
At OP, opinion =\= fact. Mmo forums make me wish debate was a mandatory class in high school. You cannot state an opinion as an absolute.
I never said that what I'm saying is fact, I'm saying if you strongly disagree with me then you don't know what you're talking about.
I also put "OP" in quotations because its a loose term, there really isn't anything (save 1 or 2 things) that are truly over powered.
Also, this wasn't to start a debate, I'm just briefly letting anyone who cares to click on this thread know the reality of high level pvp in group vs group scenarios. This takes into account solo q perspective as well as premade vs premade.
My "OP" meter is based on how well you can survive and how much damage you can do/your kill potential simultaneously.
For example: I put TR's above GF's because even though GF can reach similar burst damage as a TR, TR's can do it from stealth while a GF is fully exposed (You can't block and use an encounter simultaneously)
Guild: Lemonade Stand | Server: Dragon (Original) | PvP Forever | 1og0s * TWITCH * YOUTUBE * MY GUIDES *
You shouldn't depend on stealth as it's easy to pull a TR out of it.
I don't depend on it, I'm not a TR.
And it's really not that easy to pull them out when there are multiple TR's at a point, all stealthed in a huge group fight. I've become quite good at catching them in stealth, but during a chaotic situation where perhaps you're focusing someone else like Cleric or CW, its not that simple when a TR can unload all CoS charges on you in a few seconds while being invisible.
Guild: Lemonade Stand | Server: Dragon (Original) | PvP Forever | 1og0s * TWITCH * YOUTUBE * MY GUIDES *
And it's really not that easy to pull them out when there are multiple TR's at a point, all stealthed in a huge group fight. I've become quite good at catching them in stealth, but during a chaotic situation where perhaps you're focusing someone else like Cleric or CW, its not that simple when a TR can unload all CoS charges on you in a few seconds while being invisible.
When a TR receives dmg they lose stealth bar a couple hits and they are out of stealth.
How can you do dmg to something you can't see?
1. AoE dmg
-Equip an AoE Skill
2. Reflect dmg (Armor Enchant & Skills)
-Swap your Chest that's socketed with Soul to one that's socketed with Briartwine
-GF Knights Valor + Supremacy of Steel
3. Direct dmg
Reflect dmg is the counter to all stealth TR's. You do dmg you come out of stealth and each hit you can't generate Stealth. :P
When a TR receives dmg they lose stealth bar a couple hits and they are out of stealth.
How can you do dmg to something you can't see?
1. AoE dmg
-Equip an AoE Skill
2. Reflect dmg (Armor Enchant & Skills)
-Swap your Chest that's socketed with Soul to one that's socketed with Briartwine
-GF Knights Valor + Supremacy of Steel
3. Direct dmg
If a TR slotted Tenacious concealment, it's not going to do anything since it reduces stealth loss from incoming damage by 90%.
Comments
Good point. Although many people skipped the farming and paid to speed it up I do get your point. Thanks for a good argument with no flaming.
aleluya brrrotther! +1
I understand but my point was simply that if you are out geared all the skill in the world will not help you. I mean I catch a perma invis tene plaguefire rogue now and again and light them up and my gear is not very good. However most of the time he is going to win by default simply based on gear.
Yup. I ran CN a couple times yesterday with my guild and got an ancient dagger even though I'm full decked out in Swash with the ancient dagger set.
Put it on the AH for 1.1million AD and 20 minutes later it was sold.
If you have a chill guild with a great GL, you can make a lot of AD.
Pay to win? Pay to win what? It's ridiculous to use that term, its a misnomer. You're not winning anything, and if you're paying for something, its simply convenience. There is no such thing as P2W.
ps. "Pay to win build" is probably the silliest thing I've ever read on these forums.
* TWITCH * YOUTUBE * MY GUIDES *
fixed?
But, seriously, you can't deny the pay-to-win nature of the game when it takes 85 coalescent wards to reach perfect enchants. They are sadly the endgame. But I'm sure the people that exploited think differently.
Oh, and trying to get them coalescents through invoking isn't realistic unless you are botting 100s of accounts, which again would be cheating. And, even then it would take a while with the low chance..
Also, GS doesn't count for much, some of the best items in pvp are blues that will give you a relatively low GS. The biggest imbalance is caused by enchants.
After playing 7 chars extensively and much AH trading I did gear a couple chars to T2 and medium epic enchants, plus have a bunch of rank 7s of the regular ones lying around which I never got around using.. Just it's not for me. Winning thanks to gear feels empty, so it's back to more skill based games for me.
Besides most people in the guilds I've been in have quit and I mean guilds with 100s of 60s. That's most likely what happened to the game as a whole.
If you do pvp much, you'd have noticed it's becoming mostly the same people, same bots, plus a few fresh 60s which might end up quitting it soon enough.
Now, how do I go about deleting my accounts?
Another example of why there is no such thing as "Pay to Win". You pay for convenience, that is all.
And really, what is the difference between having a full time job, paying for ad or playing the game full time and making ad on the ah? Experience, thats it. If you play all the time you have more experience and are more likely to be a better player than someone who pays for everything. But the work you put into getting it is the same. Someone who is working a job from 9-5 is working just as hard as someone whose playing the game 9-5.
Then play against people with equal/similar gear as yours, it will get rid of some of that empty feeling.
I stomp people in pubs when I solo q or are with my guildies. It gets boring after a while, this is why you coordinate with other guilds and do premade vs premade, 1v1s, or even in house matches with all your guildmates. There are ways to have rewarding pvp in this game despite what you may think.
* TWITCH * YOUTUBE * MY GUIDES *
You seem like a very angry person when someone disagree's with you.
There are medications for that.
GWF have a much higher survivability now so what? They have the same damage just now they have an opportunity to kick your *** for a longer time. The GWF was that weakest and most underpowered class since the start of the game and now that they fix it a little bit your complaining and calling it the most OP class? Let me tell you something about OP and broken... a GF with 15.5k GS with worse enchantments and gear than me.... Oh and they will kill you in a heart beat by just pushing you around like a **** doll without you being able to stand up... That's broken and OP every other class is actually pretty **** good. So stop complaining and thinking that you know so **** much when you know nothing ****.
Lol, that's the spirit, try to discern my personality/general disposition from a few lines of text on the internet. Bravo, your arm-chair psychology is impressive, I'll go let my therapist know she's wasting time actually sitting down and getting to know her patients.
* TWITCH * YOUTUBE * MY GUIDES *
Wrong, they have always had the highest survivability, you were just never aware of it because only a handful of people understood this. GWF's in fact were never broken or needed work at all, so the buffs they recently got just made them even more powerful than they already were.
Fortunately for those handful of players that knew how to build/play GWF correctly, they are even more powerful now because of crybabies like yourself on forums who never fully understood the potential of the class.
Isn't that ironic? The most over powered class was and probably still is the most complained about class on the forums for being underpowered. And the dev's listen, thats the sad part.
* TWITCH * YOUTUBE * MY GUIDES *
GWF getting so much hate since the patch. They were gimped and now they're OP. Times have certainly changed.
They were never gimp, unfortunately only a handful of players understood this.
Very similar to all the people who use to be complaining about GF's being useless in pvp until they started seeing builds like mine and Envy's.
This is the problem that every MMO faces these days, where the general population does not fully realize the potential of their class, goes on the forums to complain, the dev's listen to them and make changes, game slowly gets ruined over time.
Good players will always succeed with what you give them, when they don't succeed is when you should start making changes to a game.
* TWITCH * YOUTUBE * MY GUIDES *
Not quite true, before the patch GWFs were a bit gimped. their earlier levels were painful. They did however scale into later levels ok. but lots of people gave up on them before 40, brushing them off as too weak.
Also, on this topic, putting Clerics at the bottom of the list just seems wrong to me. Yeah sure, a cleric will loose a 1v1 against any other class, but they are team players, and they do that job unmatched. A cleric + GWF will beat two GWFs
Rogues are also highly over rated, mages still outclass them.
Everyone seems to think this is all about 1v1 fighting, Its not. Its a team game, and classes like Clerics and CWs offer a lot of team utility that wins games.
GWFs were never gimped coming from a pvp perspective. Sentinel GWFs were tearing people up before the patch. They were hard to kill but doable.
Now you need at least 2 people coordinating their burst/dailies to finish them off.
When did I ever say this was about 1v1's?
* TWITCH * YOUTUBE * MY GUIDES *
I beg to differ as my guildie can testify to what I have done as a geared out burst TR. At the beginning of a match and the mad rush to mid, I can pop lurker's and oneshot someone with lashing blade from stealth and take out two more with CoS spam all in under 10 seconds.
At OP, opinion =\= fact. Mmo forums make me wish debate was a mandatory class in high school. You cannot state an opinion as an absolute.
I never said that what I'm saying is fact, I'm saying if you strongly disagree with me then you don't know what you're talking about.
I also put "OP" in quotations because its a loose term, there really isn't anything (save 1 or 2 things) that are truly over powered.
Also, this wasn't to start a debate, I'm just briefly letting anyone who cares to click on this thread know the reality of high level pvp in group vs group scenarios. This takes into account solo q perspective as well as premade vs premade.
My "OP" meter is based on how well you can survive and how much damage you can do/your kill potential simultaneously.
For example: I put TR's above GF's because even though GF can reach similar burst damage as a TR, TR's can do it from stealth while a GF is fully exposed (You can't block and use an encounter simultaneously)
* TWITCH * YOUTUBE * MY GUIDES *
You shouldn't depend on stealth as it's easy to pull a TR out of it.
I don't depend on it, I'm not a TR.
And it's really not that easy to pull them out when there are multiple TR's at a point, all stealthed in a huge group fight. I've become quite good at catching them in stealth, but during a chaotic situation where perhaps you're focusing someone else like Cleric or CW, its not that simple when a TR can unload all CoS charges on you in a few seconds while being invisible.
* TWITCH * YOUTUBE * MY GUIDES *
When a TR receives dmg they lose stealth bar a couple hits and they are out of stealth.
How can you do dmg to something you can't see?
1. AoE dmg
-Equip an AoE Skill
2. Reflect dmg (Armor Enchant & Skills)
-Swap your Chest that's socketed with Soul to one that's socketed with Briartwine
-GF Knights Valor + Supremacy of Steel
3. Direct dmg
Reflect dmg is the counter to all stealth TR's. You do dmg you come out of stealth and each hit you can't generate Stealth. :P
If a TR slotted Tenacious concealment, it's not going to do anything since it reduces stealth loss from incoming damage by 90%.