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Why no one plays Foundry missions

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  • dzogendzogen Member Posts: 550 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    casten24 wrote: »
    I understand where you are coming from, but at the same time, the 90% of "painful to get through to wretched" can completely bury the good content. Just one look at the "For Review" section before they limited the amount shown was enough of an example of this (and now it's technically even more buried because you can't even see most of the stuff). Not only that, but there is really no incentive at all to try new content. It's the complete opposite of syndicalist (also read communist) and that carries just as many problems. What needs to happen is a balance needs to be found. Keep the incentive to play favorite quests, but also include some sort of incentive to try out new quests. Why not have the daily have both options? Play x amount of already played quests or play 1 quest you haven't played before (or better yet, stick with the idea of "time played" rather than number of quests... 1 hour of already played v. 30 minutes of new). Something along those lines.

    I mean, seriously, come on. You can't have both options? Thinking in this "we can only have one" mentality is quite limiting, don't you think?

    I think you should be able to repeat quests all you like or try new quests all you like. It should be the players choice.

    From a daily perspective I thought ambinsterrs idea about making it a total of 60 minutes however you want to slice it seems like a reasonable way to encourage people to try longer quests if they're doing the daily thing.

    Frankly I think half of this issue will be fixed once the search system is fixed and we're able to tag quests - so I can stick to the weird funny quests and others can stick to the hardcore lore/ RP stuff, or whatever you happen to prefer.

    By the way, the way networks work, is that the winners tend to collect all the nodes, but if you create a good quest then there's no reason you won't shoot to the top too. Altavista was dominant, but Google came along and had a better search engine. Now they're dominant. Similarly, there's plenty of examples of people who recently launched a quest and the word gets out and then they're #1. If you want to get seen, make a quest people want to play.
    Dzogen, Moonstar Agent
    Bill's Tavern | The 27th Level | Secret Agent 34
  • imsmithyimsmithy Member Posts: 1,378 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    Run 4 foundry quests for 4000 AD at level 60 , there's your reason right there ,nobody is willing to spend 60 - 90 minutes doing that when they can run a easy epic twice in that timeframe and potentially earn several times more AD.
  • casten24casten24 Member Posts: 121 Bounty Hunter
    edited June 2013
    dzogen wrote: »
    I think you should be able to repeat quests all you like or try new quests all you like. It should be the players choice.
    Which is still an option if you provide incentive for both new and old quests, which I already stated. Instead of being rewarded for only eating strawberries (a nice quick bite and you're done), you can be rewarded for eating strawberries or bananas or oranges or apples.
    dzogen wrote: »
    From a daily perspective I thought ambinsterrs idea about making it a total of 60 minutes however you want to slice it seems like a reasonable way to encourage people to try longer quests if they're doing the daily thing.
    Which is already what I've stated in one of my parentheticals (it's why the qualifier "better" was used).
    dzogen wrote: »
    Frankly I think half of this issue will be fixed once the search system is fixed and we're able to tag quests - so I can stick to the weird funny quests and others can stick to the hardcore lore/ RP stuff, or whatever you happen to prefer.
    Already been stated, and beside the point.
    dzogen wrote: »
    By the way, the way networks work, is that the winners tend to collect all the nodes, but if you create a good quest then there's no reason you won't shoot to the top too. Altavista was dominant, but Google came along and had a better search engine. Now they're dominant. Similarly, there's plenty of examples of people who recently launched a quest and the word gets out and then they're #1. If you want to get seen, make a quest people want to play.
    Really? That's how networks work? I thought it was just a bunch of little fairies tapping things with their wands so they'd be covered in a nice layer of sparkles to attract people. Thank you so much for the enlightenment.
    And I don't really find it comparable to search engines... We aren't drowning in search engines like we're downing in quests in the "For Review" section (at least it's no longer bad enough to crash some players' game clients). And I don't know about your "similarity." I've seen maybe a handful of quests, if that, that have hopped into the "Best" tab. But it doesn't matter, that's all beside the point.

    The beauty of an "either-or" daily rather than a "one-way only" daily is that it offers to option to play the "same old, same old" or to take a chance on new content. For those afraid of change, they can just stick to the quest they usually play (in other words it will allow those afraid to face a "monumental waste of time," as you put it, the ability to still be rewarded). But for the more adventurous types, they have the option to try something new. And hey, who knows, maybe the quest will be bad; maybe the quest will be a hidden gem that was buried under all the refuse. Either way, for taking that risk, they obtain a better reward (in the form of less time spent out of necessity on the foundry daily). The system remains intact while offering a better chance at proliferation for those foundry quests that turn out to be diamonds in the rough.

    It doesn't have to be "can't have both."
    The Portrait Gray Campaign
    Prologue: Fort Neverember
    NW-DL2RVQ54C
    Chapter 1: The Gray Portrait
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  • qinnuxqinnux Member Posts: 265 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    Time based doesnt work - how do you define how long it is?

    It needs to consider the number of maps, the size of maps, the number of encounters, then umber of quests.
    And even further a more authorized group of players (large group) that would define if its worthy of more advanced rewards (afterwards it would be available for the author to adjust the map for better reward options).

    It doesnt have to be T2 gear - it would still be boring - somethign you can get everywhere.
    Rather custom designed "fashion" or lvl 1 items that you can use to "redesign" your equipment.

    Option for items that can be designed and used only in Campaign Only - like special orkbane weapons or goblinlove hat.
  • crimsonconceptscrimsonconcepts Member Posts: 51
    edited June 2013
    I still stand besides taking the number of quests and throwing it in the trash bin.
    Each quest on the current system should be changed into 15 minutes average gameplay.

    So players would have to complete 15, 30, 45 or 60 minutes of average Foundry Mission playtime per day. It sounds worse and when I mention it to some people they freak out thinking "I don't want to spend an hour doing foundries every day!" The truth is that's what this system is at level 60 already since many players look to do four fifteen minute exactly quests.

    Open the chance for 60 minute foundry's to get some love by counting as four missions. Let a player feel rewarded for doing two thirty minutes quests rather than punished.

    When you set a time frame, what you will have is someone that goes into a foundry that is easy, and then go AFK for 10 mins, or just sit there and hit the space bar, not actually doing anything.

    If you can find a system to limit things, people will find a way to exploit it.

    I have only created two Foundry quests, and I find that a number of things that I would love to add into the quest are just not possible. My guess is that they have been abused and they were removed, or never added in the first place. Chests, and resource nodes. I would love to be able to add these types of things into a quest, it would give the player something to work towards, and an added reward for extra work or killing.

    Maybe something that could be done is to have these types of items available for the foundry, but if they are added it gets flagged and has to be played and approved by either a 'high reviewer' or even a GM or someone that actually likes playing the foundry quests.

    As for the end rewards, I agree the token idea, or possible rare items. Maybe have it be dependant on the average time for running the quest, and if you are too low, then you don't get that chance, or if you are close to the average or longer then you have a chance. This would keep it random, and help reduce the chances of farming.
    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
    Please test my quests if you could...
    Crimsonconcepts:
    Emberbaths Planning - NW-DGU6CYPV4
    Fires Within - Goblin Attack (Part 1 of 5) - NW-DUXPXBR29
  • pris23pris23 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 204 Bounty Hunter
    edited June 2013
    lolsorhand wrote: »
    Thing is... It's hard to make it unexploitable. People will exploit everything they can. (Far from everyone!)

    But that's the problem, doubt cryptic has the manpower to keep a whole division set to dig out those exploiters.

    It would be hard to exploit if Cryptic limited the amount of loot allowed. Maybe they could allow 1 chest (not including end chest) that had a 10% chance to drop something worthwhile. Perhaps a 2% chance for a purple or blue item. The rest of the time it could drop some crafting supplies or something. I don't know exactly, but if you are only allowed to place a chest that Cryptic has control over I don't think you could exploit it easily.
    The Secret to Paradise: NWS-DCV313OOC FOUNDRY DAILY
    Part 1 - Paradise Lost? NW-DDMMIKYTB
    Part 2 - Into the Mist NW-DIJXRI4NT
    Part 3 - Wind of The North NW-DFB9K8KWH

    Leave feedback for The Secret to Paradise
  • chibidanichibidani Member Posts: 30
    edited June 2013
    apocrs1980 wrote: »
    You could also have known and proven authors who do not exploit have their account flagged to add in a node or so, or even have the devs adjust their loot table at the end, or even featured quests to hand out better then average gear and cosmetic gear :).
    Tokens are a great idea, I think it would need to be a combination of time spent and number of kills with in a foundry mission for a greater chance of tokens the longer you play and the more your killing, then add a limit of 5 foundry missions a day.
    This should take care of most exploits.
    I would love to continue building 5 man or even raid style dungeons and have the loots dropped from boss encounters worth while for the folks running it.

    One major problem with it being kill based aswell as time. people would give low stars for "not enough spawns" and stuff making the non combat foundrys suffer.
  • apocrs1980apocrs1980 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Silverstars Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    pris23 wrote: »
    It would be hard to exploit if Cryptic limited the amount of loot allowed. Maybe they could allow 1 chest (not including end chest) that had a 10% chance to drop something worthwhile. Perhaps a 2% chance for a purple or blue item. The rest of the time it could drop some crafting supplies or something. I don't know exactly, but if you are only allowed to place a chest that Cryptic has control over I don't think you could exploit it easily.

    Wouldn't stop an exploiter from making a 0 min quest and looting the chest over and over again :(
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    The Cragsteep Crypt - BETA
    Ravenloft
    Look for@Apocrs1980 or visit the main page here or Ravenloft here
  • lolsorhandlolsorhand Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild Users Posts: 981 Bounty Hunter
    edited June 2013
    apocrs1980 wrote: »
    Wouldn't stop an exploiter from making a 0 min quest and looting the chest over and over again :(

    I would repeat and say well.. To keep the formula for the loot secret but make it better/unique to the foundry in some way. (I mean with some time, this problem shouldn't be all that harde to solve as long as they keep the loot formula well hidden away from authors/players.
    I like turtles.

    Brethren of the Five, Campaign. - Story focused
    The Dwarven Tale - Hack 'N Slash
  • eldartheldarth Member Posts: 4,494 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    It's not rocket science. This could all be handled easily using loot tables based on XP (experience points) gained during the quest.
    Hmmm... kinda like D&D has had in the DM guide SINCE THE BEGINNING.

    I basically detailed the idea here: Foundry rewards and multiple chest loot tables

    • 0-200xp -- 25% chance:1-20cp, 20%:1-5 AD, 50%: 1-2 grey items, 10%:1 minor potion/scroll
    • 201-500xp -- 15%:10-100cp, 40%:10-50 AD, 25%: 2-3 grey items, 20%: 1 minor potion/scroll
    • ...
    • 5001-20,000xp -- 10%:1-4gp + 10-100sp, 35%: 750-1250 AD, 20%: 1-3 blue items, 5%:1 purple item
    • ...

    Gory math stuff...
    • Final chest based on Total XP gained during quest capped by maximum XP rate/minute (prevents monty haul 1-minute mob exploiters)
    • Minor chests (place-able by Foundry Authors) based on "delta XP" (XP since last minor-chest) capped by max XP rate AND (Total XP gained - delta XP gained) (also capped by max XP rate) - this prevents having only 1 minor-chest at end with final chest. [ie. As delta XP goes past half of Total XP, it's loot potential drops to nothing if it's placed with final chest].

    Gives Foundry authors minor-level chests to place (as many as desired), and gives much more interesting loot to players to make playing foundry content fun and exciting.

    I'd also suggest adding skill-nodes placeable (and difficulty settable) by authors that grant some minor XP for success - that would encourage more use of skills along w/encounters.
  • metaheroxmetaherox Member, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild Users Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    Foundry tokens, I like it!
  • brunomaltabrunomalta Member Posts: 53 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    So, no one plays them for the fun or to be immersed on a good story?
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    The Gems of Destiny

    Author:@brunomaltasisko

    Q1: The Mysterious Mage (NW-DH25ZWZ9T)
    Q2: The Gem of Time (NW-DIV5JX7J3)
    More to Come
  • apocrs1980apocrs1980 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Silverstars Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    Apparently not brunomalta, as soon as you make any foundry with any sort of story you get 1 stared to death. with moronic responses like "BORING!"
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    The Cragsteep Crypt - BETA
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  • zovyazovya Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    And don't blame players too much. This "free-to-play fast-paced-combat game with very little built-in time-sinks" attracts the wrong type of player to enjoy a long, engaging story-heavy quest with little to no reward in gear or monies.

    They are out there though, make what you love. It will show.
  • crimsonconceptscrimsonconcepts Member Posts: 51
    edited June 2013
    To be honest one of the killjoys for me on Foundry quests is that they are 100% linear. There is no way to make options or different outcomes. So if I play the quest 10 times I know what to do each time after the 1st. Don't get me wrong I still love playing them, and some of the stories that people build into them are pretty amazing, but the effect of having a great system to make player content in place but not the ability to use it is really a bummer.

    I also find that some great Foundry quests are never seen or run simply because people just go to the Daily Foundry ones which happen to be the top of the list. How am I, as a new Foundry maker, ever supposed to get close to 20,000 reviews, when people never even take the time to play a single one of them?
    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
    Please test my quests if you could...
    Crimsonconcepts:
    Emberbaths Planning - NW-DGU6CYPV4
    Fires Within - Goblin Attack (Part 1 of 5) - NW-DUXPXBR29
  • zahinderzahinder Member Posts: 897 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    It's totally possible to make different options to get through a quest -- my first mission differs somewhat depending on class, my second mission has a bunch of optional side stuff plus three different paths to the endgoal. The third is more meta puzzle and, admittedly, only has a single progression.

    In my fourth msision I'm designing it such that you can either talk or fight your way through various points, with a number of optional ways to solve each step.
    Campaign: The Fenwick Cycle NWS-DKR9GB7KH

    Wicks and Things: NW-DI4FMZRR4 : The Fenwick merchant family has lost a caravan! Can you help?

    Beggar's Hollow: NW-DR6YG4J2L : Someone, or something, has stolen away many of the Fenwicks' children! Can you find out what happened to them?

    Into the Fen Wood: NW-DL89DRG7B : Enter the heart of the forest. Can you discover the secret of the Fen Wood?
  • zahinderzahinder Member Posts: 897 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    The problem becomes that the only missions people end up playing are the highly visible ones most people are playing to get dailies done.

    So they then assume foundry is only capable of doing a few things because that's all they see and is obvious from the tool, while all the complex, clever Foundry missions generally languish in the shadows.

    And then they go and make bog-standard uncreative missions because they assume that's all they can make, and the cycle continues.
    Campaign: The Fenwick Cycle NWS-DKR9GB7KH

    Wicks and Things: NW-DI4FMZRR4 : The Fenwick merchant family has lost a caravan! Can you help?

    Beggar's Hollow: NW-DR6YG4J2L : Someone, or something, has stolen away many of the Fenwicks' children! Can you find out what happened to them?

    Into the Fen Wood: NW-DL89DRG7B : Enter the heart of the forest. Can you discover the secret of the Fen Wood?
  • eviledickeviledick Member Posts: 39
    edited June 2013
    Why not give out lion/manticore tokens for foundries, at least below 60? At the moment these are useless, since by the time you have enough to purchase an item, you are massively over levelled for those items.
    Bug Powder Dust: Chapter 1, 15 mins of Cleric friendly hack and slash, with a nod to Pratchett and G Naylor:- NW-DKHPBAVBO
  • boomba66boomba66 Member Posts: 221 Bounty Hunter
    edited June 2013
    On deck for the Foundry team, we are tackling a new search that will have a ton of features that make it easy to find just what you are looking for. Part of this update to search is going to be tagging and support for advanced searches. We have also been talking about how we can get a decent suggestion system as well.

    Authors continue to make fantastic quests and have crafted some of the best experiences I have had in Neverwinter. It's hard to think of anything so awesome as a failure. Rewards are a tricky thing. I don't think we can start handing out T2 loot for Foundry quests but we are constantly looking at the rewards and rewarding for Foundry content. There is a balance that we need to hit where there is a reward for players and authors that doesn't harm the game. It is likely that new models will need to be investigated for the Foundry that strike a good middle ground for rewards.

    "Foundry Tokens." Any mods that you approve all come with a 1 token reward at the end. Have dyes, cloaks, Unique looking armor all purchasable. That would get foundry play doubled per day. maybe even add a epic or two item or mount at very steep prices.

    Make quests only repeatable a certain number of times per day that drop coins. That way people stay away from farm maps.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • brunomaltabrunomalta Member Posts: 53 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    Well, i have a story to tell and i really will not focus only on combat just to please some people.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    The Gems of Destiny

    Author:@brunomaltasisko

    Q1: The Mysterious Mage (NW-DH25ZWZ9T)
    Q2: The Gem of Time (NW-DIV5JX7J3)
    More to Come
  • wininoidwininoid Member Posts: 534 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    I like that idea. Sort of a Foundry version of Ardent Coins.
  • boomba66boomba66 Member Posts: 221 Bounty Hunter
    edited June 2013
    To flesh idea out.
    1. Foundry coin given for every daily foundry approved event completed. Only runnable once per day. This will keep the farm missions to a minimum.
    2. Foundry Items can be bought up to Tier 2 Epics. If you can solo pvp content in Gaunlet, no reason for large amount of foundry coin you shouldn't be able to purchase a set of gear that is very solo friendly. (AKA instead of specific holy trinity gear you make pieces that are well balanced that the solo player finds helpful)
    3. Foundry Lore: If you make a module a "featured" have a completed section in the achievements. This will get your foundry mods that are selected more plays and really show case the better events the community comes up with.
    4. Allow Veteran DM's to add legit boss encounters that when beaten drop extra foundry coin, a dye pack or a unique looking appearance item that would need to be "unlocked" with Zen. I do kow you guys need to make your salary.
    5. Place the foundry vendor next to Harper so players can see the rewards that are ready to be earned.
    6. For the "Very" best foundry modules or campaigns. Allow that author to create one companion that would be say a "1 or 2" percent drop. Tons of people love collecting companions, give them a few that are truly Driven by the community. Bonderleaf's talking Cat as an example of one easily implemented that would get more people playing your game daily.

    Just some ideas. I know that the author community plays foundry missions. Lets get the hack-slashers and purple gear driven players a reason to try wjat is honestly what sets you apart from any MMO on the market.

    Sloane Hardtower
    Always, Paladin of Tyr
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • drnoesisdrnoesis Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    brunomalta wrote: »
    Well, i have a story to tell and i really will not focus only on combat just to please some people.

    I know the feeling, spending a lot of my foundry time trying to fit combat sequences into a story which really doesn't require them just to appease the ugg-bash-thumper's that just want to be fed wave after wave of squishables for some xp.
    ow1b.png
  • glantorxglantorx Member Posts: 189 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    We need a system that rewards REAL adventures in the style of D&D, not just some monster bash short glory quests.
  • acrilosacrilos Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 6 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    On deck for the Foundry team, we are tackling a new search that will have a ton of features that make it easy to find just what you are looking for. Part of this update to search is going to be tagging and support for advanced searches. We have also been talking about how we can get a decent suggestion system as well.

    Authors continue to make fantastic quests and have crafted some of the best experiences I have had in Neverwinter. It's hard to think of anything so awesome as a failure. Rewards are a tricky thing. I don't think we can start handing out T2 loot for Foundry quests but we are constantly looking at the rewards and rewarding for Foundry content. There is a balance that we need to hit where there is a reward for players and authors that doesn't harm the game. It is likely that new models will need to be investigated for the Foundry that strike a good middle ground for rewards.

    If I may have a suggestion.
    Each time a players completes a foundry mission, he could be awarded special foundry tokens and spend those tokens at a foundry merchant for unavailable stuff elsewhere, be it cosmetic or more useful stuff in game.
    That could make foundry mission more attractable. The number of tokens could depend on the length of the mission, and only one reward per mission per day to avoid exploit.
    Nevermind apparently this suggestion was given above.
  • xaiim7xaiim7 Member Posts: 40
    edited June 2013
    cazak69 wrote: »
    (first post)

    Simple, Cryptic do not think.

    Cryptic need delegate authority. Roles:

    always 5 players (tester of bugs / tester difficulty).
    - check foundry for bugs
    - check difficulty (1-5 scale) / suggests loot (time play include)
    -- why 5 players? On difficulty drop high and low score :)
    - one more check by Cryptic delegate player, if is all right

    Cryptic will kill foundry. XP on 60lv? :DDD
  • katah1969katah1969 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 89
    edited June 2013
    If loot's the only reason to play, then no, Foundry missions are not for you.

    You are kidding right? Obviously you are new to this type of game. Loot *IS* everything! It is the reason you level up. Period. End of story.
  • wuhsinwuhsin Banned Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    glantorx wrote: »
    We need a system that rewards REAL adventures in the style of D&D, not just some monster bash short glory quests.

    I agree one hundred percent.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • wuhsinwuhsin Banned Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    The reason no one plays Foundry missions is because we were gimped in order to prevent exploits. Yet exploits still top the list every week, and it takes literally hundreds of us reporting numerous times, and posting all over the forums before they ever get removed.

    ExploitMap42ratingBS_zps736cb3dc.png

    Hire someone to police your Foundry, please. This exploit map sits near the top, and CW's can get 2 gold in less than a minute with it. I could understand it getting overlooked this long if it was near the bottom, and no one was reporting it. But lots of people are reporting it, and everyone has to scroll past it when looking at new quests because it's dang near the top. I'm so sickened by the state of things. Ugh.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • zahinderzahinder Member Posts: 897 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    katah1969 wrote: »
    You are kidding right? Obviously you are new to this type of game. Loot *IS* everything! It is the reason you level up. Period. End of story.

    Speak for yourself. I wouldn't be playing Neverwinter if I wasn't interested in story.
    Campaign: The Fenwick Cycle NWS-DKR9GB7KH

    Wicks and Things: NW-DI4FMZRR4 : The Fenwick merchant family has lost a caravan! Can you help?

    Beggar's Hollow: NW-DR6YG4J2L : Someone, or something, has stolen away many of the Fenwicks' children! Can you find out what happened to them?

    Into the Fen Wood: NW-DL89DRG7B : Enter the heart of the forest. Can you discover the secret of the Fen Wood?
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