On deck for the Foundry team, we are tackling a new search that will have a ton of features that make it easy to find just what you are looking for. Part of this update to search is going to be tagging and support for advanced searches. We have also been talking about how we can get a decent suggestion system as well.
Authors continue to make fantastic quests and have crafted some of the best experiences I have had in Neverwinter. It's hard to think of anything so awesome as a failure. Rewards are a tricky thing. I don't think we can start handing out T2 loot for Foundry quests but we are constantly looking at the rewards and rewarding for Foundry content. There is a balance that we need to hit where there is a reward for players and authors that doesn't harm the game. It is likely that new models will need to be investigated for the Foundry that strike a good middle ground for rewards.
I do feel a bit odd complaining about this as I have only had one review with this mentioned, where other foundry authors have had a bunch... however. I feel that in some cases we should have a review ...reviewed and possibly removed. Losing stars for something 100% completely beyond our control is no fun...AKA "Fun or Challenging Quest.. loot sucked" reviews irk the ever-loving hell out of me.
On deck for the Foundry team, we are tackling a new search that will have a ton of features that make it easy to find just what you are looking for. Part of this update to search is going to be tagging and support for advanced searches. We have also been talking about how we can get a decent suggestion system as well.
Authors continue to make fantastic quests and have crafted some of the best experiences I have had in Neverwinter. It's hard to think of anything so awesome as a failure. Rewards are a tricky thing. I don't think we can start handing out T2 loot for Foundry quests but we are constantly looking at the rewards and rewarding for Foundry content. There is a balance that we need to hit where there is a reward for players and authors that doesn't harm the game. It is likely that new models will need to be investigated for the Foundry that strike a good middle ground for rewards.
I'm interested to see what becomes of this. As it stands I utilise foundry quests a lot during the leveling process, partly for the XP (character and companion) and partly for the AD. Once I hit level 60 on my GF I've largely stopped playing the character outside of crafting. Having to run 4 foundry quests for daily AD is too much for me and that fact that there are no meaningful rewards means there's really no purpose unless I want to be a dedicated reviewer. I'm unlikely to ever get involved in any of the "end-game" group content so I'd certainly appreciate a gear based reward, something that can be worked towards, either by direct drops or seals.
One of the difficulties with the foundry is finding and saving good quests for later, we can subscribe to authors but if they've made multiple foundry quests but only one I like the subscription section can get full. I'm pleased a better search is coming but I'd also like a better system for marking quests for future (re)play, hopefully this is the "tagging" mentioned.
I guess I will be the first to disagree with "foundry coins" or any unique drops from the foundry. The devs are right to lock down the foundry rewards.
Remember: the exploiters, people running bots, these people are programmers. First, they would write a foundry quest to exploit, then they would program their hundreds if not thousands of bots to run the quest over and over and over. Any rare drop you get? They'll get 10 every day, and sell it on the AH.
I have to admit, back when I hit 60, I stopped playing foundry entirely. It's a waste of valuable time, with little reward.
However, with that last big patch, where they gimped people's ability to farm more than a few nodes? Well, that was my in-game currency maker. Now that it's gone, I'm now farming easy foundry's, like one of the above posters said, for gold and the occasional enchantment. I can either run all the way out to the 59/60 zone, and run around killing the field mobs, or I can fire up an easy quest, and kill the same or similar field mobs. The drops are about the same from the mobs. No chests or nodes, but hey, you can't find those anymore anyways. Too many people running around looting them. Foundry's are closer, and have the same kill drops. Works for me, for now.
I understand that exploiters are extremely proficient (and relentless) at cheating. The devs have no choice but to lock things down. I'd say keep things the way they are now.
Cheers, and good work! I love the foundry quests here... have a few ideas of my own, which is why I am in this forum. I'm ready to write my first foundry, not to exploit, but to use, share and hopefully have fun.
I guess I will be the first to disagree with "foundry coins" or any unique drops from the foundry. The devs are right to lock down the foundry rewards.
Remember: the exploiters, people running bots, these people are programmers. First, they would write a foundry quest to exploit, then they would program their hundreds if not thousands of bots to run the quest over and over and over. Any rare drop you get? They'll get 10 every day, and sell it on the AH.
I have to admit, back when I hit 60, I stopped playing foundry entirely. It's a waste of valuable time, with little reward.
However, with that last big patch, where they gimped people's ability to farm more than a few nodes? Well, that was my in-game currency maker. Now that it's gone, I'm now farming easy foundry's, like one of the above posters said, for gold and the occasional enchantment. I can either run all the way out to the 59/60 zone, and run around killing the field mobs, or I can fire up an easy quest, and kill the same or similar field mobs. The drops are about the same from the mobs. No chests or nodes, but hey, you can't find those anymore anyways. Too many people running around looting them. Foundry's are closer, and have the same kill drops. Works for me, for now.
I understand that exploiters are extremely proficient (and relentless) at cheating. The devs have no choice but to lock things down. I'd say keep things the way they are now.
Cheers, and good work! I love the foundry quests here... have a few ideas of my own, which is why I am in this forum. I'm ready to write my first foundry, not to exploit, but to use, share and hopefully have fun.
I would think simply having seals drop in the END reward chest, at a fixed rate per average runtime would be enough to deal with any exploiters no? Something simple like 1 foundry seal per 5 minutes. The average run is 15min, then you get like 3 seals, average run-time is 30? Then 6 seals. So seal droprate would fluctuate automatically by the average runtime of the quest.
Best part is a system like that based on time would make it so running a quest at any length of time always rewarding and it seems like a fairly simple solution.
Add a seal bonus of some sort for running a specific foundry quest for the first time and you have a solid start to making foundry content more worthwhile. Again, the bonus would have to be balanced on time length so people feel like they are getting rewarded fairly for any quest, not just a quickie 15min one
ambisinisterrMember, Neverwinter ModeratorPosts: 10,462Community Moderator
edited June 2013
While I loath exploiters as much as anybody else...
Leaving the foundry in a state that players find either rewardless or underrewarding isn't going it any justice.
As a Neverwinter Nights player I play the Foundry Content and I am reminded of the quality content the D&D Community can make but all to often this is overlooked because of the current reward systems. It's a shame. There's no better way to put it.
And if we put on our thinking caps I know there are better solutions to content with this issue than to roll over and accept defeat.
To be honest making it two Foundry Quests for the Daily is a bad idea.
I understand the principal logic, but I think it actually corners people into thinking they need to do two "quickies" instead of relaxing back to enjoy a decent adventure.
Perhaps keep the AD's the same but increase the minimum time on what constitutes a Daily by 5 or 10.
Problem :- The main reason why they don't add decent rewards is because people will exploit the system.
Solution :- Have a team of reviewers to test foundry content and flag the quests so it now gives rewards for effort. Before you say anything about additional cost for hiring this team I'm sure they can get enough volunteers to do this for them.
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ambisinisterrMember, Neverwinter ModeratorPosts: 10,462Community Moderator
To be honest making it two Foundry Quests for the Daily is a bad idea.
I understand the principal logic, but I think it actually corners people into thinking they need to do two "quickies" instead of relaxing back to enjoy a decent adventure.
Perhaps keep the AD's the same but increase the minimum time on what constitutes a Daily by 5 or 10.
Just throwing it out there.
I still stand besides taking the number of quests and throwing it in the trash bin.
Each quest on the current system should be changed into 15 minutes average gameplay.
So players would have to complete 15, 30, 45 or 60 minutes of average Foundry Mission playtime per day. It sounds worse and when I mention it to some people they freak out thinking "I don't want to spend an hour doing foundries every day!" The truth is that's what this system is at level 60 already since many players look to do four fifteen minute exactly quests.
Open the chance for 60 minute foundry's to get some love by counting as four missions. Let a player feel rewarded for doing two thirty minutes quests rather than punished.
Problem :- The main reason why they don't add decent rewards is because people will exploit the system.
Solution :- Have a team of reviewers to test foundry content and flag the quests so it now gives rewards for effort. Before you say anything about additional cost for hiring this team I'm sure they can get enough volunteers to do this for them.
Volunteers are dangerous and come with entire lawbooks limiting what they can and can't do.
Open the chance for 60 minute foundry's to get some love by counting as four missions. Let a player feel rewarded for doing two thirty minutes quests rather than punished.
Absolutely!
It's mind blowing how much work comparatively goes into a longer, richer quest, with story and depth, in comparison to a 15 min. skim and hack.
Yet it's so difficult to get them played, lest reviewed.
I have no doubt things will eventually find a way to reward the authors for the time and coffee that goes into these quests.
Another thing - I think it would be beneficial to all if the Quest could have a rating system.
E.G. SOLO - Low to Med.. etc..
I know currently it's up to the authors to supply this information but maybe a tick box before publishing might help.
Currently no-one wants to invest 30 + minutes inot a quest that ends with 3 groups of stacked mobs..
I have had to abort 4 Foundries today that were not rated, as I attempted them solo (with cleric)
BTW this is on topic as 15 minute quests are a good gamble it's not stacked.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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sh4dowrunn3rMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 17Arc User
I guess I will be the first to disagree with "foundry coins" or any unique drops from the foundry. The devs are right to lock down the foundry rewards.
Remember: the exploiters, people running bots, these people are programmers. First, they would write a foundry quest to exploit, then they would program their hundreds if not thousands of bots to run the quest over and over and over. Any rare drop you get? They'll get 10 every day, and sell it on the AH.
I have to admit, back when I hit 60, I stopped playing foundry entirely. It's a waste of valuable time, with little reward.
However, with that last big patch, where they gimped people's ability to farm more than a few nodes? Well, that was my in-game currency maker. Now that it's gone, I'm now farming easy foundry's, like one of the above posters said, for gold and the occasional enchantment. I can either run all the way out to the 59/60 zone, and run around killing the field mobs, or I can fire up an easy quest, and kill the same or similar field mobs. The drops are about the same from the mobs. No chests or nodes, but hey, you can't find those anymore anyways. Too many people running around looting them. Foundry's are closer, and have the same kill drops. Works for me, for now.
I understand that exploiters are extremely proficient (and relentless) at cheating. The devs have no choice but to lock things down. I'd say keep things the way they are now.
Cheers, and good work! I love the foundry quests here... have a few ideas of my own, which is why I am in this forum. I'm ready to write my first foundry, not to exploit, but to use, share and hopefully have fun.
There is million ways to farm this game... Just by making 100s accounts and praying each day... PvP...
Anyhow BOP is solution to most of it and a bot unfriendly login, which would stop a lot of spammers also - write what you see on image thingy. But there needs to be rewards you can buy that will always be something people want even when they are in best gear already, otherwise BOP kills reward system.
Open the chance for 60 minute foundry's to get some love by counting as four missions. Let a player feel rewarded for doing two thirty minutes quests rather than punished.
That certainly seems to sound better in theory than what we currently have. I'd be interested to try that out.
Of course there still needs to be an additional reward or some kind of goal, at least for me, if the sole purpose of foundry missions becomes grinding for AD it's still not worth it imo. Foundry content is just too unpredictable and subjective in it's quality otherwise.
On deck for the Foundry team, we are tackling a new search that will have a ton of features that make it easy to find just what you are looking for. Part of this update to search is going to be tagging and support for advanced searches. We have also been talking about how we can get a decent suggestion system as well.
Authors continue to make fantastic quests and have crafted some of the best experiences I have had in Neverwinter. It's hard to think of anything so awesome as a failure. Rewards are a tricky thing. I don't think we can start handing out T2 loot for Foundry quests but we are constantly looking at the rewards and rewarding for Foundry content. There is a balance that we need to hit where there is a reward for players and authors that doesn't harm the game. It is likely that new models will need to be investigated for the Foundry that strike a good middle ground for rewards.
I am really all for one with regards to the seal system. However, I think the AMOUNT of seals should be given based on the length of the quest they complete. This may prevent the current 'goldilocks' system per se that is currently enforced due to the mechanical development/structure of the game, which I find is a common topic within this forum. But I am really happy you are looking into other methodologies that would change the infrastructure of the current system.
All in all, the "MAJORITY" of players are playing this game for one thing and one thing only - loot/rewards, so it would necessitate a catering to this in someway or another. Whether it be through seals to purchase mounts, or fashion items or whatever you deem plausible. I may be obtuse with regards to how this system can be overhauled but am definitely open to suggestions.
Thanks for listening, keep up the great work and we look forward to what you have in store for us.
On deck for the Foundry team, we are tackling a new search that will have a ton of features that make it easy to find just what you are looking for. Part of this update to search is going to be tagging and support for advanced searches. We have also been talking about how we can get a decent suggestion system as well.
Authors continue to make fantastic quests and have crafted some of the best experiences I have had in Neverwinter. It's hard to think of anything so awesome as a failure. Rewards are a tricky thing. I don't think we can start handing out T2 loot for Foundry quests but we are constantly looking at the rewards and rewarding for Foundry content. There is a balance that we need to hit where there is a reward for players and authors that doesn't harm the game. It is likely that new models will need to be investigated for the Foundry that strike a good middle ground for rewards.
Foundry points...
People in MMO's seem to love their currencies, so give the Foundry it's own currency.
Make each run of a UNIQUE (as in you can not run the same short quest over and over) give a number of Foundry points, depending on factors such as average length, if it is new, featured, etc.
Then these foundry points can be worked with any number of ways, like something similar to the prayer currencies, or make it so you can turn it so many foundry points for a token that can be used to get a piece of T1 or just slightly short of T1 quality gear.
I know the Foundry is all about the stories, I have been saying that this whole time, but it is also about time management, and when the general population has to give up on getting gear to play higher level dungeons to play Foundry they are going to look at the Foundry as a waste of valuable time.
Note that the time spent developing a quest doesn't necessarily translate to length. Each of my three quests takes roughly 20-30 minutes, each probably spent about 30-40 manhours to develop, and the first two quests have some replay potential (the first varies by class, the second has multiple paths).
My next mission will be much the same -- the environments may take me a week or two or three, I'm hoping to offer a lot of optional paths, and my goal is to get it in the 20-30 min range (plus way more for folks who like to poke around).
Everyone has their thing, but my goal is to try to make broad missions, rather than long ones.
Campaign: The Fenwick Cycle NWS-DKR9GB7KH
Wicks and Things: NW-DI4FMZRR4 : The Fenwick merchant family has lost a caravan! Can you help?
Beggar's Hollow: NW-DR6YG4J2L : Someone, or something, has stolen away many of the Fenwicks' children! Can you find out what happened to them?
Into the Fen Wood: NW-DL89DRG7B : Enter the heart of the forest. Can you discover the secret of the Fen Wood?
Tokens and a vendor for them seems like a great idea. I know others here have stated the same thing, and there are some you don't like the idea. From my perspective, I like story missions. To me they are the foundation of what Dungeons and Dragons is. There are people in the game that don't want to spend a lengthy amount of time to run a campaign or a single quest, I think we all get that. Then there are those that love a good story and want to see some great quests. So how do you reward both camps at the same time. I keep referring to CoH in some of these discussions because the AE that they used had a lot of good features, despite the inability to shut down farming missions. One of these was the AE Bank. After each mission you would get x amount of credit. You could then take this credit to the bank and purchase items like higher grade enhancements that were bound to character, recipe components for inventor skills, and btc items with limited charges.
Another thing is to allow authors to make quest with end boss fights. Yes I know, people will make farms with nothing but boss mobs and it will be total chaos, no one will play the other quests. Eliminate that theory with a limited resource per quest. One boss in each quest, just one. That's all you need. Every quest should have an epic fight between the heroes and the master mind that caused the problem in the first place. Give him two lieutenants if that makes people happy, which it wont, but let us add the bosses with a chance for a higher yield loot item. Since all quests need to be reviewed prior to release, it would be pretty easy to lock down those one map quests with just an end boss in them, which I know can be done. We have some good authors here and most are solid enough to watch for things like that. These are just my views on the whole reward system. For me it's the journey that I enjoy, not the destination. If I get into a campaign or quest that has a good story, I'm happy as can be. I could care less about the <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> long sword I'll never use, as long as the quest was fun.
Foundry Designs: Once a Dungeon Master, always a Dungeon Master.
I must say the shard of Teir gear is better than the Seal idea. The reason is players want BiS gear, and seal do not give BiS gear! So unless those seals work like shards and can be combined into better Seals that can purchse BiS gear, the incentive to play foundry doesn't exist.
I must say the shard of Teir gear is better than the Seal idea. The reason is players want BiS gear, and seal do not give BiS gear! So unless those seals work like shards and can be combined into better Seals that can purchse BiS gear, the incentive to play foundry doesn't exist.
Not necessarily, just like other MMO's it is also about the work up to BiS/latest tier gear.
The game just came out, all they have is T2 gear. But imagine having tiers upon tiers. Just like WoW had to do something so players late in the game could experience the latest content before it got old, but without just giving them the best gear to do it.
The Foundry could be an alternate way to get gear that will allow players to get into higher tier dungeons without having to struggle to find groups to run the the lower tier dungeons that players all but ignore.
You do not ever want to give BiS items without group content in my opinion. That should always be reserved for the hardest dungeons that take a good challenge to complete. Foundry missions will never have that challenge. Instead Foundries should be a way to get tokens that you can use to get a few items from the tier below the current one, allowing you to supplement constant grinding of older content so you can get the BiS from the actual highest tier dungeons.
For players already sitting at the current tier level that the Foundry offers, then other means to get them into the Foundry, like using tokens to get unique mounts, or consumables that can help in the high levels dungeons, or cosmetic items. Stuff that a player who already has what they need in terms of gear can drop tokens in, or they can save them up for when the next tier comes out and new items.
For players sitting at the max tier and have BiS already, then see the above.
To be honest making it two Foundry Quests for the Daily is a bad idea.
I understand the principal logic, but I think it actually corners people into thinking they need to do two "quickies" instead of relaxing back to enjoy a decent adventure.
DING! Right on the head. When they raised the minimum from one to two, then three, then FOUR, I was offended. TRUELY OFFENDED. Who is the @#$%@# who came up with that stupid idea? It was like foundry quests are now shoved down my throat. My response was to never do them again. The old saying... @#$% me? well @#$% you...
I still stand besides taking the number of quests and throwing it in the trash bin.
Each quest on the current system should be changed into 15 minutes average gameplay.
So players would have to complete 15, 30, 45 or 60 minutes of average Foundry Mission playtime per day. It sounds worse and when I mention it to some people they freak out thinking "I don't want to spend an hour doing foundries every day!" The truth is that's what this system is at level 60 already since many players look to do four fifteen minute exactly quests.
Open the chance for 60 minute foundry's to get some love by counting as four missions. Let a player feel rewarded for doing two thirty minutes quests rather than punished.
DING! Perfect solution! Simple! Easy to implement! Costs nobody nothing! If they did this, I would actually consider a long quest, for the first time.
I give a **** about loot. I want to ROLEPLAY and experience a fantasy-adventure.
Good for you. I can understand that. However... I am the complete opposite, and there are many just like me.
When I look to do a foundry, I look for several things:
1. Must be short. I IGNORE anything over 20 minutes. Don't even read it. Don't care how many plays/reviews.
2. Description must come to the point QUICKLY! If I can't figure out what the quest is about in the first sentence (few seconds of reading) I lose interest and move on. Some of them blather on and on, paragraph after paragraph of babble and never gets to the point. It's like a politician that gives an hour long speech and says nothing.
3. Solo friendly to level 60. If it doesn't come out and CLEARLY say this, I ignore it and move on.
Since this game FORCES me to do FOUR, why would I ever waste my time on a long quest, full of drama, babbling, puzzle solving and a lot of reading?
And foundry quests that recommend a party? Seriously? Do you really think I'm gonna go grab some friends and say "hey, lets all group up and do a long drama-riddled foundry that has no real rewards?" If anyone ever suggested this to me, I'd have to thank them for such a great laugh. Hilarious.
Like most players, I expect some return on my investment. And if I am forced to do something, well, then I'll do the least amount of effort to get it done. It's like a bad job... minimum wage? minimum effort.
Lets say each encounter in the Encounter Panel is given a varying number of points.
Then lets say for X number of points we can add a Tier 1 chest.
We don't know what's in the chest, we have no way to control it. It has one or more random drops from the Tier 1 loot-table.
Now lets say that at 2X we can add a Tier 2 Chest OR 2x Tier 1 Chests, and so on.
The Tier 1 Loot Table would actually be several Loot Tables with different level brackets, so that a L60 character gets something that is a relatively trivial to him/her from a T1 Chest as the L15 player.
Lets say that there a maximum of 3 Chests in Total in any Foundry Quest, and that there are 5 Tiers of Chest, and that the highest Tier Chest MUST be assigned to the Completion Point.
Then lets say that to unlock T5 Chests not only do you need the right points tally, but you need to use a minimum number of overall encounters, and minimum amount of the "Map Budget". To stop people putting in large empty rooms with 20+ easy 1 Encounters.
Let some of the "loot" be "Store Items".
We, as Foundry Authors still have no idea about the specific loot, nor any control over it - other than accruing enough points to unlock a specific Tier.
But we do get to set the feel and tone of the content used to unlock T5.
Now, the ONLY reason allowing Authors to put loot in to the Foundry Quests is open to exploit is because the Devs haven't done enough work to prevent that.
If the will were there it would be relatively easy to sort this out.
Yeah. I'm hoping to have the option for 0 combat in my next mission.
That actualy sounds interesting, though I think I would atleast add optional encounters, perhaps sidequests with encounters. (Or just something. Though that's just me.)
I do however enjoy good stories, hence why I only level through the foundry atm.
The problem with creating a system to incentivize people to play new foundries is that 90% of Foundry content floating out there ranges from painful to get through to wretched (IMHO, after hundreds of plays).
Like it or not, the crowdsourced system that exists has a great deal of intelligence built in. The community is curating its' favorite content in real time & ratings & popularity give new players the confidence that this particular quest won't be a monumental waste of their time. That's a good thing.
Creating a model that incentivizes people to not repeat their favorite quests breaks the system. Good content should be naturally self-selected by the community via # of plays & avg rating. Otherwise you end up with a communist style system where mediocrity is rewarded and players will be rewarded for playing boring content.
The problem with creating a system to incentivize people to play new foundries is that 90% of Foundry content floating out there ranges from painful to get through to wretched (IMHO, after hundreds of plays).
Like it or not, the crowdsourced system that exists has a great deal of intelligence built in. The community is curating its' favorite content in real time & ratings & popularity give new players the confidence that this particular quest won't be a monumental waste of their time. That's a good thing.
Creating a model that incentivizes people to not repeat their favorite quests breaks the system. Good content should be naturally self-selected by the community via # of plays & avg rating. Otherwise you end up with a communist style system where mediocrity is rewarded and players will be rewarded for playing boring content.
I understand where you are coming from, but at the same time, the 90% of "painful to get through to wretched" can completely bury the good content. Just one look at the "For Review" section before they limited the amount shown was enough of an example of this (and now it's technically even more buried because you can't even see most of the stuff). Not only that, but there is really no incentive at all to try new content. It's the complete opposite of syndicalist (also read communist) and that carries just as many problems. What needs to happen is a balance needs to be found. Keep the incentive to play favorite quests, but also include some sort of incentive to try out new quests. Why not have the daily have both options? Play x amount of already played quests or play 1 quest you haven't played before (or better yet, stick with the idea of "time played" rather than number of quests... 1 hour of already played v. 30 minutes of new). Something along those lines.
I mean, seriously, come on. You can't have both options? Thinking in this "we can only have one" mentality is quite limiting, don't you think?
Yeah. I'm hoping to have the option for 0 combat in my next mission.
My quest has that option. I actually removed a storyboarded fight to make it possible to do with zero combat, and added some hints on how to do it. It also has a lot of potential combat, with stuff being thrown at you in a large open area (allowing you to run away).
Once you figure it all out, you can blaze through it pretty quickly, too. But you can spend a lot of time figuring it out!
Yeah, basically there will be two groups of enemies that you can actually negotiate with/past, which will help you get past some OTHER stuff without combat, and a few incidental animal mobs you can avoid.
Or you can KILL EVERYTHING.
Or some mix.
The challenge will be trying to keep the playtimes not too divergent, ideally (for core stuff -- lots of extra stuff will eat time for those who like to smell the roses)
Campaign: The Fenwick Cycle NWS-DKR9GB7KH
Wicks and Things: NW-DI4FMZRR4 : The Fenwick merchant family has lost a caravan! Can you help?
Beggar's Hollow: NW-DR6YG4J2L : Someone, or something, has stolen away many of the Fenwicks' children! Can you find out what happened to them?
Into the Fen Wood: NW-DL89DRG7B : Enter the heart of the forest. Can you discover the secret of the Fen Wood?
Comments
I do feel a bit odd complaining about this as I have only had one review with this mentioned, where other foundry authors have had a bunch... however. I feel that in some cases we should have a review ...reviewed and possibly removed. Losing stars for something 100% completely beyond our control is no fun...AKA "Fun or Challenging Quest.. loot sucked" reviews irk the ever-loving hell out of me.
Dreamscapes Campaign
I. Darkly Dreaming / NW-DPSH505XY +Daily Foundry!!
II. Shattered Dreams / NW-DGARDHDR7
One of the difficulties with the foundry is finding and saving good quests for later, we can subscribe to authors but if they've made multiple foundry quests but only one I like the subscription section can get full. I'm pleased a better search is coming but I'd also like a better system for marking quests for future (re)play, hopefully this is the "tagging" mentioned.
I guess I will be the first to disagree with "foundry coins" or any unique drops from the foundry. The devs are right to lock down the foundry rewards.
Remember: the exploiters, people running bots, these people are programmers. First, they would write a foundry quest to exploit, then they would program their hundreds if not thousands of bots to run the quest over and over and over. Any rare drop you get? They'll get 10 every day, and sell it on the AH.
I have to admit, back when I hit 60, I stopped playing foundry entirely. It's a waste of valuable time, with little reward.
However, with that last big patch, where they gimped people's ability to farm more than a few nodes? Well, that was my in-game currency maker. Now that it's gone, I'm now farming easy foundry's, like one of the above posters said, for gold and the occasional enchantment. I can either run all the way out to the 59/60 zone, and run around killing the field mobs, or I can fire up an easy quest, and kill the same or similar field mobs. The drops are about the same from the mobs. No chests or nodes, but hey, you can't find those anymore anyways. Too many people running around looting them. Foundry's are closer, and have the same kill drops. Works for me, for now.
I understand that exploiters are extremely proficient (and relentless) at cheating. The devs have no choice but to lock things down. I'd say keep things the way they are now.
Cheers, and good work! I love the foundry quests here... have a few ideas of my own, which is why I am in this forum. I'm ready to write my first foundry, not to exploit, but to use, share and hopefully have fun.
I would think simply having seals drop in the END reward chest, at a fixed rate per average runtime would be enough to deal with any exploiters no? Something simple like 1 foundry seal per 5 minutes. The average run is 15min, then you get like 3 seals, average run-time is 30? Then 6 seals. So seal droprate would fluctuate automatically by the average runtime of the quest.
Best part is a system like that based on time would make it so running a quest at any length of time always rewarding and it seems like a fairly simple solution.
Add a seal bonus of some sort for running a specific foundry quest for the first time and you have a solid start to making foundry content more worthwhile. Again, the bonus would have to be balanced on time length so people feel like they are getting rewarded fairly for any quest, not just a quickie 15min one
Dreamscapes Campaign
I. Darkly Dreaming / NW-DPSH505XY +Daily Foundry!!
II. Shattered Dreams / NW-DGARDHDR7
Leaving the foundry in a state that players find either rewardless or underrewarding isn't going it any justice.
As a Neverwinter Nights player I play the Foundry Content and I am reminded of the quality content the D&D Community can make but all to often this is overlooked because of the current reward systems. It's a shame. There's no better way to put it.
And if we put on our thinking caps I know there are better solutions to content with this issue than to roll over and accept defeat.
I understand the principal logic, but I think it actually corners people into thinking they need to do two "quickies" instead of relaxing back to enjoy a decent adventure.
Perhaps keep the AD's the same but increase the minimum time on what constitutes a Daily by 5 or 10.
Just throwing it out there.
Solution :- Have a team of reviewers to test foundry content and flag the quests so it now gives rewards for effort. Before you say anything about additional cost for hiring this team I'm sure they can get enough volunteers to do this for them.
I still stand besides taking the number of quests and throwing it in the trash bin.
Each quest on the current system should be changed into 15 minutes average gameplay.
So players would have to complete 15, 30, 45 or 60 minutes of average Foundry Mission playtime per day. It sounds worse and when I mention it to some people they freak out thinking "I don't want to spend an hour doing foundries every day!" The truth is that's what this system is at level 60 already since many players look to do four fifteen minute exactly quests.
Open the chance for 60 minute foundry's to get some love by counting as four missions. Let a player feel rewarded for doing two thirty minutes quests rather than punished.
Volunteers are dangerous and come with entire lawbooks limiting what they can and can't do.
Absolutely!
It's mind blowing how much work comparatively goes into a longer, richer quest, with story and depth, in comparison to a 15 min. skim and hack.
Yet it's so difficult to get them played, lest reviewed.
I have no doubt things will eventually find a way to reward the authors for the time and coffee that goes into these quests.
Another thing - I think it would be beneficial to all if the Quest could have a rating system.
E.G. SOLO - Low to Med.. etc..
I know currently it's up to the authors to supply this information but maybe a tick box before publishing might help.
Currently no-one wants to invest 30 + minutes inot a quest that ends with 3 groups of stacked mobs..
I have had to abort 4 Foundries today that were not rated, as I attempted them solo (with cleric)
BTW this is on topic as 15 minute quests are a good gamble it's not stacked.
There is million ways to farm this game... Just by making 100s accounts and praying each day... PvP...
Anyhow BOP is solution to most of it and a bot unfriendly login, which would stop a lot of spammers also - write what you see on image thingy. But there needs to be rewards you can buy that will always be something people want even when they are in best gear already, otherwise BOP kills reward system.
Of course there still needs to be an additional reward or some kind of goal, at least for me, if the sole purpose of foundry missions becomes grinding for AD it's still not worth it imo. Foundry content is just too unpredictable and subjective in it's quality otherwise.
I am really all for one with regards to the seal system. However, I think the AMOUNT of seals should be given based on the length of the quest they complete. This may prevent the current 'goldilocks' system per se that is currently enforced due to the mechanical development/structure of the game, which I find is a common topic within this forum. But I am really happy you are looking into other methodologies that would change the infrastructure of the current system.
All in all, the "MAJORITY" of players are playing this game for one thing and one thing only - loot/rewards, so it would necessitate a catering to this in someway or another. Whether it be through seals to purchase mounts, or fashion items or whatever you deem plausible. I may be obtuse with regards to how this system can be overhauled but am definitely open to suggestions.
Thanks for listening, keep up the great work and we look forward to what you have in store for us.
Savai,
Foundry points...
People in MMO's seem to love their currencies, so give the Foundry it's own currency.
Make each run of a UNIQUE (as in you can not run the same short quest over and over) give a number of Foundry points, depending on factors such as average length, if it is new, featured, etc.
Then these foundry points can be worked with any number of ways, like something similar to the prayer currencies, or make it so you can turn it so many foundry points for a token that can be used to get a piece of T1 or just slightly short of T1 quality gear.
I know the Foundry is all about the stories, I have been saying that this whole time, but it is also about time management, and when the general population has to give up on getting gear to play higher level dungeons to play Foundry they are going to look at the Foundry as a waste of valuable time.
My next mission will be much the same -- the environments may take me a week or two or three, I'm hoping to offer a lot of optional paths, and my goal is to get it in the 20-30 min range (plus way more for folks who like to poke around).
Everyone has their thing, but my goal is to try to make broad missions, rather than long ones.
Wicks and Things: NW-DI4FMZRR4 : The Fenwick merchant family has lost a caravan! Can you help?
Beggar's Hollow: NW-DR6YG4J2L : Someone, or something, has stolen away many of the Fenwicks' children! Can you find out what happened to them?
Into the Fen Wood: NW-DL89DRG7B : Enter the heart of the forest. Can you discover the secret of the Fen Wood?
Another thing is to allow authors to make quest with end boss fights. Yes I know, people will make farms with nothing but boss mobs and it will be total chaos, no one will play the other quests. Eliminate that theory with a limited resource per quest. One boss in each quest, just one. That's all you need. Every quest should have an epic fight between the heroes and the master mind that caused the problem in the first place. Give him two lieutenants if that makes people happy, which it wont, but let us add the bosses with a chance for a higher yield loot item. Since all quests need to be reviewed prior to release, it would be pretty easy to lock down those one map quests with just an end boss in them, which I know can be done. We have some good authors here and most are solid enough to watch for things like that. These are just my views on the whole reward system. For me it's the journey that I enjoy, not the destination. If I get into a campaign or quest that has a good story, I'm happy as can be. I could care less about the <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> long sword I'll never use, as long as the quest was fun.
Not necessarily, just like other MMO's it is also about the work up to BiS/latest tier gear.
The game just came out, all they have is T2 gear. But imagine having tiers upon tiers. Just like WoW had to do something so players late in the game could experience the latest content before it got old, but without just giving them the best gear to do it.
The Foundry could be an alternate way to get gear that will allow players to get into higher tier dungeons without having to struggle to find groups to run the the lower tier dungeons that players all but ignore.
You do not ever want to give BiS items without group content in my opinion. That should always be reserved for the hardest dungeons that take a good challenge to complete. Foundry missions will never have that challenge. Instead Foundries should be a way to get tokens that you can use to get a few items from the tier below the current one, allowing you to supplement constant grinding of older content so you can get the BiS from the actual highest tier dungeons.
For players already sitting at the current tier level that the Foundry offers, then other means to get them into the Foundry, like using tokens to get unique mounts, or consumables that can help in the high levels dungeons, or cosmetic items. Stuff that a player who already has what they need in terms of gear can drop tokens in, or they can save them up for when the next tier comes out and new items.
For players sitting at the max tier and have BiS already, then see the above.
Wish, more people would have this attitude. I'm such a cool dude. lol
A CURIOUS DISAPPEARANCE by Sphecida: NW-DDLEOFL2Q
A CRY UNANSWERED by obsidianw0lf: NW-DGNBAX3RD
SIEGEBREAKER by ash4all: NW-DGDPWV2U5
DING! Right on the head. When they raised the minimum from one to two, then three, then FOUR, I was offended. TRUELY OFFENDED. Who is the @#$%@# who came up with that stupid idea? It was like foundry quests are now shoved down my throat. My response was to never do them again. The old saying... @#$% me? well @#$% you...
DING! Perfect solution! Simple! Easy to implement! Costs nobody nothing! If they did this, I would actually consider a long quest, for the first time.
Good for you. I can understand that. However... I am the complete opposite, and there are many just like me.
When I look to do a foundry, I look for several things:
1. Must be short. I IGNORE anything over 20 minutes. Don't even read it. Don't care how many plays/reviews.
2. Description must come to the point QUICKLY! If I can't figure out what the quest is about in the first sentence (few seconds of reading) I lose interest and move on. Some of them blather on and on, paragraph after paragraph of babble and never gets to the point. It's like a politician that gives an hour long speech and says nothing.
3. Solo friendly to level 60. If it doesn't come out and CLEARLY say this, I ignore it and move on.
Since this game FORCES me to do FOUR, why would I ever waste my time on a long quest, full of drama, babbling, puzzle solving and a lot of reading?
And foundry quests that recommend a party? Seriously? Do you really think I'm gonna go grab some friends and say "hey, lets all group up and do a long drama-riddled foundry that has no real rewards?" If anyone ever suggested this to me, I'd have to thank them for such a great laugh. Hilarious.
Like most players, I expect some return on my investment. And if I am forced to do something, well, then I'll do the least amount of effort to get it done. It's like a bad job... minimum wage? minimum effort.
Lets say each encounter in the Encounter Panel is given a varying number of points.
Then lets say for X number of points we can add a Tier 1 chest.
We don't know what's in the chest, we have no way to control it. It has one or more random drops from the Tier 1 loot-table.
Now lets say that at 2X we can add a Tier 2 Chest OR 2x Tier 1 Chests, and so on.
The Tier 1 Loot Table would actually be several Loot Tables with different level brackets, so that a L60 character gets something that is a relatively trivial to him/her from a T1 Chest as the L15 player.
Lets say that there a maximum of 3 Chests in Total in any Foundry Quest, and that there are 5 Tiers of Chest, and that the highest Tier Chest MUST be assigned to the Completion Point.
Then lets say that to unlock T5 Chests not only do you need the right points tally, but you need to use a minimum number of overall encounters, and minimum amount of the "Map Budget". To stop people putting in large empty rooms with 20+ easy 1 Encounters.
Let some of the "loot" be "Store Items".
We, as Foundry Authors still have no idea about the specific loot, nor any control over it - other than accruing enough points to unlock a specific Tier.
But we do get to set the feel and tone of the content used to unlock T5.
Now, the ONLY reason allowing Authors to put loot in to the Foundry Quests is open to exploit is because the Devs haven't done enough work to prevent that.
If the will were there it would be relatively easy to sort this out.
All The Best
Looking For Reviews For Your Foundry Quest?
Drop By Scribe's Enclave & Meet Up With Volunteer Reviewers.
Killing things isn't the only way to make a fun adventure. (And shouldn't be the only thing that gets rewarded in terms of player activity)
Wicks and Things: NW-DI4FMZRR4 : The Fenwick merchant family has lost a caravan! Can you help?
Beggar's Hollow: NW-DR6YG4J2L : Someone, or something, has stolen away many of the Fenwicks' children! Can you find out what happened to them?
Into the Fen Wood: NW-DL89DRG7B : Enter the heart of the forest. Can you discover the secret of the Fen Wood?
That actualy sounds interesting, though I think I would atleast add optional encounters, perhaps sidequests with encounters. (Or just something. Though that's just me.)
I do however enjoy good stories, hence why I only level through the foundry atm.
Brethren of the Five, Campaign. - Story focused
The Dwarven Tale - Hack 'N Slash
Like it or not, the crowdsourced system that exists has a great deal of intelligence built in. The community is curating its' favorite content in real time & ratings & popularity give new players the confidence that this particular quest won't be a monumental waste of their time. That's a good thing.
Creating a model that incentivizes people to not repeat their favorite quests breaks the system. Good content should be naturally self-selected by the community via # of plays & avg rating. Otherwise you end up with a communist style system where mediocrity is rewarded and players will be rewarded for playing boring content.
Bill's Tavern | The 27th Level | Secret Agent 34
You'll see I mentioned using the "Map Budget" as well.
Make the system dependent on the entire map budget, not just mobs.
All The Best
Looking For Reviews For Your Foundry Quest?
Drop By Scribe's Enclave & Meet Up With Volunteer Reviewers.
I understand where you are coming from, but at the same time, the 90% of "painful to get through to wretched" can completely bury the good content. Just one look at the "For Review" section before they limited the amount shown was enough of an example of this (and now it's technically even more buried because you can't even see most of the stuff). Not only that, but there is really no incentive at all to try new content. It's the complete opposite of syndicalist (also read communist) and that carries just as many problems. What needs to happen is a balance needs to be found. Keep the incentive to play favorite quests, but also include some sort of incentive to try out new quests. Why not have the daily have both options? Play x amount of already played quests or play 1 quest you haven't played before (or better yet, stick with the idea of "time played" rather than number of quests... 1 hour of already played v. 30 minutes of new). Something along those lines.
I mean, seriously, come on. You can't have both options? Thinking in this "we can only have one" mentality is quite limiting, don't you think?
Prologue: Fort Neverember
NW-DL2RVQ54C
Chapter 1: The Gray Portrait
NW-DHGEFBMGD
My quest has that option. I actually removed a storyboarded fight to make it possible to do with zero combat, and added some hints on how to do it. It also has a lot of potential combat, with stuff being thrown at you in a large open area (allowing you to run away).
Once you figure it all out, you can blaze through it pretty quickly, too. But you can spend a lot of time figuring it out!
Foundry name: Vuelherring (with an extra 'R', matey)
"Bring out yer Dead" NW-DAI945C2G #humor #story #solo
Or you can KILL EVERYTHING.
Or some mix.
The challenge will be trying to keep the playtimes not too divergent, ideally (for core stuff -- lots of extra stuff will eat time for those who like to smell the roses)
Wicks and Things: NW-DI4FMZRR4 : The Fenwick merchant family has lost a caravan! Can you help?
Beggar's Hollow: NW-DR6YG4J2L : Someone, or something, has stolen away many of the Fenwicks' children! Can you find out what happened to them?
Into the Fen Wood: NW-DL89DRG7B : Enter the heart of the forest. Can you discover the secret of the Fen Wood?