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Guardian are over powered in PVP (Discussion)
fusedmass
Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild Users Posts: 252 Bounty Hunter
First off, welcome to the discussion.
This topic, wasn't done on pure impulse. Playing PVP pretty much regularly, I can't help notice Guardians in the last patch have gotten a massive boost in PVP. Playing as a CW myself, in almost all T2 gear. I understand each class has its weakness, and strength.
An example, playing in PVP. During one session. This Guardian hit me once, knocked me back and did a crit that went below half my health, a final swipe then killed me. It came to the point where it took two people just to kill them virtually none of our major attacks were doing anything to it.
They always rush forward stun the person, then in second hit they knock them well below half their half. On top of that their ability to block most attacks, I can't help but notice they're a bit over powered ATM.
I don't mean. I got beat, so I'm going to complain. I mean during almost every PVP Session when there is a Guardian it takes a lot longer to kill then it normally does, combined with blocking almost all attacks and dishing out some serious damage.
I don't think they should be able to hit as hard, or block as well. As a CW, I wear cloth. I know I can die easily. That's my weakness. What's theirs? and before anyone says "play better" I copied my talent points and rotation off the forums.
Care share your thoughts?
Other threads about this issue
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?372472-Gwf-pvp-gods
This topic, wasn't done on pure impulse. Playing PVP pretty much regularly, I can't help notice Guardians in the last patch have gotten a massive boost in PVP. Playing as a CW myself, in almost all T2 gear. I understand each class has its weakness, and strength.
An example, playing in PVP. During one session. This Guardian hit me once, knocked me back and did a crit that went below half my health, a final swipe then killed me. It came to the point where it took two people just to kill them virtually none of our major attacks were doing anything to it.
They always rush forward stun the person, then in second hit they knock them well below half their half. On top of that their ability to block most attacks, I can't help but notice they're a bit over powered ATM.
I don't mean. I got beat, so I'm going to complain. I mean during almost every PVP Session when there is a Guardian it takes a lot longer to kill then it normally does, combined with blocking almost all attacks and dishing out some serious damage.
I don't think they should be able to hit as hard, or block as well. As a CW, I wear cloth. I know I can die easily. That's my weakness. What's theirs? and before anyone says "play better" I copied my talent points and rotation off the forums.
Care share your thoughts?
Other threads about this issue
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?372472-Gwf-pvp-gods
<Ineractive Gaming>http://www.youtube.com/user/Josh19344
Post edited by fusedmass on
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As a TR i use my impossible to catch to avoid their knocks, and i pretty much try to stay stealthed as much as i can.
If you see them raising their shield, lower it with your normal At-Wills dont use your encounters while he has shield raised up.
You are a CW... kind of surprising you are having issues against a slow-melee-predictable class.
If other people are posting nearly exact same thing. Then that says something. I believe personally its a bit unfair. They're able to block so well. Dish out extreme damage. This isn't limited to PVP. I looked at a Dungeon with a Guardian. He was the highest on DPS by a large number.
Something had to happen. Now its out of balance. I think many would agree.
Editing to reply to above.
I know it sounds strange a class that can cast so far away, then vanish and shoot again is having problems. Its the problem, none of my attacks are doing any serious damage, very little. He's able to take it, then kill me even as I vanish around.
This always wasn't the case. Something had to happen to boost their DPS. Again not limited to PVP. How does a Guardian, rank top on DPS in a Dungeon. Couldn't we admit their is some boost to their damage.
If a GF out DPSing a TR , then a TR horribly suck.
i'm a TR with Paingiver title ( you get it when you deal most damage in X amount of dungeons), I've never got Out DPSed by a GF it is impossible as i hit way way way way way faster!.
As for PVP like i said, it is all about your positioning, Try to dodge his knocks and control him as much as you can. You got 3 blinks and tons of CC, i don't understand how can they easily kill you.
May i know your gear score? If it is below 10k then i pretty much understand the low damage you deal.
IF it is higher, then i suggest adding armor penetration to all your offense slots. Many guildies runs with that build and they do just fine.
-Melee class, no ranged attacks
-Slow, no dodge, cannot run away from a fight
-Block doesn't block in a 360 circle(nor should it, that'd be silly)
-Block is very limited in damage absorption unless specced for in a paragon tree.
-At wills are not powerful in PvP
-When guard meter is exhausted, extremely vulnerable.
-Vulnerable to CC powers
Advantages:
-Good encounter synergy
-Very powerful vs targets standing in front of the shield and within range of encounters
-Can take more of a beating than other classes
I'm not only person that thinks this. Keep in mind. I'm in T2 Gear with Rank 4 or 5 Enchants.
It's not my positioning, or tactics or even spells. They are the defined meaning of over powered, the only weakness they have is they move slow. That doesn't matter as many times as I can blink and cast ranged spells. It does little damage. While they do extreme damage compared to mine.
Link to another thread about this
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?372472-Gwf-pvp-gods
I play as a cleric and I don't understand at all why GF's should have higher defense stats on their equipment than clerics get. GFs not only get higher defense but they also get equally as high reflection, are able to self-heal up, and get frontal immunity. One of the key selling points of playing a cleric in D&D is its ability to use the best armors and shields, but not in this game.
Sorry to tell you that rank 4/5 enchants wont do much in lvl 60 pvp.
Your link is to a thread about GWF's regeneration ability.
I play PvP a lot, and next to clerics the average CW tends to be at the bottom of the PvP scoring lists. Two clerics along with two CWs in PvP is a quit party immediately type of situation.
Two Clerics in PvP are not as efficient as before as their Astrals don't stack anymore.
It's funny, I manage to nearly always have the most kills and fewest deaths on both my CW and my GF. Though gear/build is extremely important, so is player skill. On my CW I know exactly how to handle GFs and GWFs. You just need to understand other class abilities and when they are used in order to effectively counter them.
Against GFs always maintain max distance and wear down their block bar. Once block is down you are free to CC them and melt them. If the GF is too close, just blink through them, turn around and CC them. A GF can't block if you're behind them.
GFs aren't OP, they are functioning as intended. Players just need to learn their weaknesses and counter them rather than crying for nerfs.
As many people have pointed out, GFs have weaknesses. Use them.
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My CW always comes first or second on the ladder while mu GF is nearly always on the bottom or near the bottom.
GF are not good at PVP if their spec is for protection.
My GF has hardly any decent PVP hits and if the GF did hurt you so much are you LV60???
If my GF drops his shield he is dead - if my GF does not drop his shield he can not attack and thus is dead.
GF are the worst at PVP and only occasionally near the end of a session when peeps are tired can I even get any kills - usually I am just assist points.
We are smashed by TR. CW, and GWF - clerics do not hurt us as much but still can out manoeuvre.
One on One no chance against any except maybe a Cleric - that is if they know their class. As soon as that shield drops or the guard meter is Brocken it is no fun at all.
GF have the lowest DPS of any class - if you got crit out good for him
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My tactic is to cast COI on them immediately and start shooting magic missiles. Time it so you hit an Enfeeble right before their shield goes down, and then lift them. Enfeeble again, then magic missile, then ray of frost(or ICE knife will often kill them right away at this point). If they block, continue to magic missile, then Chill strike. Kite, etc throughout this process, do not let them get near, or you're dead. Repeat when COI comes up again. In a 1v1 there's not much they can do if you don't let them get close...problem is most will let them get all the way up to them before they try kiting.
60 GF(14.5GS) Cersei
60 CW(12.4GS) Shadis
60 TR(12.2GS) Dijkstra
60 GWF(12.2GS) Winnowill
45 DC(WIP) Daenerys
Everyone thinks every other class is OP, not a good measure of reality unfortunately. Rank 4-5 enchants aren't really that great TBH, and weapons and armor enchantments make a huge difference.
Also your link is going to a GWF is overpowered, not GF....
60 GF(14.5GS) Cersei
60 CW(12.4GS) Shadis
60 TR(12.2GS) Dijkstra
60 GWF(12.2GS) Winnowill
45 DC(WIP) Daenerys
It all boils down to knowing your class and knowing your enemy's class better. Make your enemy burn his big skills so you can kill him while they are on CD.
If you think any class is OP, you just don't know enough about them.
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I have the same title zzzzzz.
Dps GF IS the highest dps in PvE and the highest burst in PvP.
Thats because you prolly are a terrible rogue...this guy again really?
"...this guy again, really?" I wanna see you outdps snuuky. Stop spreading your filth.
Try to do more than 12kk in Spell Plague then we can talk.
a GF out DPSing a TR.. HAH...people these days..
Only 12kk? Also, damage meters are an indicator of nothing. If you're efficient, fights take less time, therefore, lower damage meters.
I've done CNs were I'm at 60M and others where i'm at 20M (both at the top of the damage meters), they don't mean anything.
I agree with this. Where's our survivability..
But at lower levels where you can actually have a fight that lasts longer than 3 seconds, GF do seem to have the upper hand 1on1 and holding points, I guess that's their role really.
Now they can charge me. In ONE single move knock my health down to half. Then before I can react they can kill me. I thought the whole each class has its weakness, and its strength. Something has noticeably changed last patch. Which is why you see so many comments and threads about this certain class.
Last patch CW were a bit OP in some areas so they were nerfed. Not a big deal. Would it too much for Guardians to admit, wearing the best protection and able to dish out such extreme damage. Their one weakness is moving slowly, expect that doesn't matter if they manage to use charge.
This isn't a case of, I got beat by X class, so I'm going to complain. This is over period of weeks examining them in PVP. It should at least be looked at.
12kk without dying at all. if you wipe multiple times you can reach up to 100kk with no problem lol.
and don't compare a long dungeon as CN with SP please...
and yes they are indicators of how much ****ing damage you dealt.
When i see GF in front off me i just run
But still need keep max distance from GF.
It's not about damage dealt, it's about dps. What if the CW pushes 90% of the mobs off cliffs? You do less damage but are more efficient. I have finished SP runs with top damage at 8M and others at 13M or 15M.