GG, now PvP isn't 100% about one shotting or perma cc.
Although something would have to be done about GF and GWF survability in PvP.
GG now i wear cloth armor against plate wearing melee who i now cant cc or dps down. They just move into range and stunlock me. I have to stop to cast they dont.
Control wizard. No control then we are nothing and thats whats bourne out now. GWF cc immune and heals their entire health. GF block until into range and stunlock. Rogues impossible to catch.
These skills eliminate all three of my encounters and leaves me with the nerfed ray of enfeeb. So now i cant cc them im at a disadvantage because i have no armor. All i can do is run and try doing that against a GWF.
Devs WTF are you stupid. You screwed our class.
CWs are a lose the way this game is made because we HAVE to give up the node.
They nerfed our powers our feats are just broken. This game is dumb
I play TR in pvp, and what I've noticed about GFs is that if you manage to dodge EVEN one of their abilities, you have significantly bigger change of beating him.
Im a GF and i have to agree on this...Just dodge as soon as the Gf reaches you and you will have him...,
If i miss frontline surge or bull charge, my main cc abilitys,i probably have to give up and retreat untill i have CD's again or im stunned/choked/etc. untill death...my at-wills really suck in pvp.
Block is very easy to break, hell rogues brake my block without even leaving stealth with "cloud of skill", or you know , you can just flank me and i will die... cant block 360
This topic, wasn't done on pure impulse. Playing PVP pretty much regularly, I can't help notice Guardians in the last patch have gotten a massive boost in PVP. Playing as a CW myself, in almost all T2 gear. I understand each class has its weakness, and strength.
An example, playing in PVP. During one session. This Guardian hit me once, knocked me back and did a crit that went below half my health, a final swipe then killed me. It came to the point where it took two people just to kill them virtually none of our major attacks were doing anything to it.
They always rush forward stun the person, then in second hit they knock them well below half their half. On top of that their ability to block most attacks, I can't help but notice they're a bit over powered ATM.
I don't mean. I got beat, so I'm going to complain. I mean during almost every PVP Session when there is a Guardian it takes a lot longer to kill then it normally does, combined with blocking almost all attacks and dishing out some serious damage.
I don't think they should be able to hit as hard, or block as well. As a CW, I wear cloth. I know I can die easily. That's my weakness. What's theirs? and before anyone says "play better" I copied my talent points and rotation off the forums.
You do realize that nothing should 1v1 a GF right ? They are supposed to be tough and take on 1v2's etc etc. They are supposed to do huge burst and have strong CC. GF's right now still can't tank and need a larger health pool and maybe more natural deflection. I would like to see all GF's in T2 over 40k health. So more buff's in that department be great.
You do realize that nothing should 1v1 a GF right ? They are supposed to be tough and take on 1v2's etc etc. They are supposed to do huge burst and have strong CC. GF's right now still can't tank and need a larger health pool and maybe more natural deflection. I would like to see all GF's in T2 over 40k health. So more buff's in that department be great.
So basically you are saying the tank should have high HP, high defenses, high damage, and high CC (stun lock) and he shouldn't have a single counter class? :-/ Mmmm ok....
CW will win EVERY 1on1 vs GF! The GF isnt able to hit the CW before the gf dies.
TR using impossible to catch, dazing strike and smokebomb kills every GF easily.
GF vs Cleric is an annoying 1on1 which takes HOURS!
GF vs GWF is very close.
Why is the GF overpowered? Just because the TR and CWs are the biggest noobs which are available on the server?! Most CWs and TR did never learn to play their class because prepatch they were overpowered and killed everything without any(!) skill. And now theses Bobs are crying because now they need some skill to dominate each PvP match. Well, TR and CW still dominate PvP.
But yes, nerf GF, because high skilled GF using very good equipment are able to kill some lowskilled TR/CW...
If you want people to stay for the match end even when you're sitting on a 600-10 score and you've decided to be ***-hats and spawn-camp, you need to give them a reason. Punishing them is not the answer. That's just pouring salt-acid into an already bleeding wound.
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honoraryorangeMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 0Arc User
You do realize that nothing should 1v1 a GF right ? They are supposed to be tough and take on 1v2's etc etc. They are supposed to do huge burst and have strong CC. GF's right now still can't tank and need a larger health pool and maybe more natural deflection. I would like to see all GF's in T2 over 40k health. So more buff's in that department be great.
Very nice sarcasm.
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tang56Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
So basically you are saying the tank should have high HP, high defenses, high damage, and high CC (stun lock) and he shouldn't have a single counter class? :-/ Mmmm ok....
Yeah, that'd be great if you wouldn't mind. Kthxbai.
GF vs Cleric is an annoying 1on1 which takes HOURS!
Yeah, ok. Clerics have one choice in a 1v1 vs. GF with proper pvp build, run away and don't turn around, spam dodge. Even then you are just delaying the inevitable. If the cleric doesn't run he will die in a bout 3 seconds.
I play a cleric and I don't mind this personally, if my team decides to ignore the GF while he kills me ad nauseum, this doens't make GF OP, this makes my team terrible. Now if the other team has 2 or 3 GF and I"m playing my cleric I usually just leave, they will all focus me if they are good and I won't be able to play the game aside from Shift-2 and running back to my demise.
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yushirokaneMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
My main is a GF in full t2. I did not believe in all the whine posts about our class, until i slotted my gear with tene enchants. Now i can 100% confirm, that (only with said enchantments) the GF truly is overpowered. I can 1 shot/2 shot any other class without them being able to get me below 80% hp, due to ferocious reaction and my high deflection rate (this wouldn't be a big deal, if our damage wasn't that high). I think we deal too much damage, but in all honesty it is not the skills/feats it really is the tenebrous enchantments. These things are gamebreaking. I can kill 5 people, solo while my own hp doesn't ever drop below 25%. it is sad, i have a GWF and a DC, too. Both do not perform nearly as good as my GF, even though they are all kind of equally well equipped. I would say, nerf tenebrous enchants. Or even better, fix them.
Just my 75 1/2 cents.
Any class is op with full tenebrous build... It just maes the game stoopid, in GF is just more op due to the hp pool stac but that doesn't mean GF is op OMG, is just the enchant with this concrete class (well with anyone)
I've been two-shotted by geared out GFs but that was my mistake for not paying attention. In reality any class is OP with full tenes and GWFs are at the top of the food chain in that regards.
Buff clerics Cryptic and bring out the ranger class so we can all two-shot each other endlessly.
People need to realize exactly how insane the gear gap is in this game.
I have an 12k GWF 11kTR and 14k GF so I'm doing my best to not be bias by sayin GF is def not OP.
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CW Vrs GF: Stay max range and you win, there's really no excuse for a CW to die to a GF unless they got caught by another CW. I watch CW not using their range all day long, Ray of frost stacks even break guard so its an easy CC chain. 1 CW can take 5 GFs.
GWF Vrs GF: Anywhere close to equal gear the GWF wins about every time, the GF has a small chance if they have their daily to start, otherwise GWF will stomp them. The sent HP build will not die in a CC chain, they will unstoppable, chase or break guard, then CC chain back for the kill.
DC Vrs GF: Im sorry guys, clerics def got the short stick right now, Hammer does good dmg, root is useful and heals are always nice but CC chain is currently the win for PvP. I blame a lot of the cleric's problems on stacking -%def and armor pen for bonus dmg, reducing the effect of their heals and defense. DC really does stand little chance against either Fighter classes right now. You should also blame your group since I rarely see people protecting a cleric.
TR Vrs GF: For the love of god, stop using stealth running up to a GF's face using Lashing blade or Shocking exe and expecting your normal 20k crits; Its not gunna happen. Stealth knives a bit till guard is almost gone, bomb, knives 1-2 more times = dazed/slowed GF with no guard, attack at will. Be prepared to have to disengage, re-stealth dodge and basically not go 1-2-3 like most do, then complain. TR is the only class with the capacity to take all other classes.
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Lunging strike is the easiest ability to dodge in the game. It literally has a 2 second window and that's the best gap closer GF have. As stated before they're slow otherwise, with max 40' range and as such get more base defense while having the rightful same dmg output as other classes. The difference is all their dmg is completely dependent on cooldowns and guard is the way to pace those CD timers. GWF has Unstoppable to pace CDs, CW has Range/Blink and rogues have stealth/dodge to pace. All in all it seems pretty fair to me.
PvP in it's current form is all about 1 mistake 1 slip and you die. I kinda like it myself.
I feel situations like stacking defense debuffs and hit detection/lag are far bigger problems than balance.
How can you properly make a call on balance when you've got horribly bad hit detection?
People need to realize exactly how insane the gear gap is in this game.
I have an 12k GWF 11kTR and 14k GF so I'm doing my best to not be bias by sayin GF is def not OP.
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CW Vrs GF: Stay max range and you win, there's really no excuse for a CW to die to a GF unless they got caught by another CW. I watch CW not using their range all day long, Ray of frost stacks even break guard so its an easy CC chain. 1 CW can take 5 GFs.
GWF Vrs GF: Anywhere close to equal gear the GWF wins about every time, the GF has a small chance if they have their daily to start, otherwise GWF will stomp them. The sent HP build will not die in a CC chain, they will unstoppable, chase or break guard, then CC chain back for the kill.
DC Vrs GF: Im sorry guys, clerics def got the short stick right now, Hammer does good dmg, root is useful and heals are always nice but CC chain is currently the win for PvP. I blame a lot of the cleric's problems on stacking -%def and armor pen for bonus dmg, reducing the effect of their heals and defense. DC really does stand little chance against either Fighter classes right now. You should also blame your group since I rarely see people protecting a cleric.
TR Vrs GF: For the love of god, stop using stealth running up to a GF's face using Lashing blade or Shocking exe and expecting your normal 20k crits; Its not gunna happen. Stealth knives a bit till guard is almost gone, bomb, knives 1-2 more times = dazed/slowed GF with no guard, attack at will. Be prepared to have to disengage, re-stealth dodge and basically not go 1-2-3 like most do, then complain. TR is the only class with the capacity to take all other classes.
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Lunging strike is the easiest ability to dodge in the game. It literally has a 2 second window and that's the best gap closer GF have. As stated before they're slow otherwise, with max 40' range and as such get more base defense while having the rightful same dmg output as other classes. The difference is all their dmg is completely dependent on cooldowns and guard is the way to pace those CD timers. GWF has Unstoppable to pace CDs, CW has Range/Blink and rogues have stealth/dodge to pace. All in all it seems pretty fair to me.
PvP in it's current form is all about 1 mistake 1 slip and you die. I kinda like it myself.
I feel situations like stacking defense debuffs and hit detection/lag are far bigger problems than balance.
How can you properly make a call on balance when you've got horribly bad hit detection?
The hit detection is pretty horrible in this game. GWFs encounters hitting you a mile away is bad programming.
0
rapticorMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,078Arc User
The hit detection is preety horrible in this game. GWFs encounters hitting you a mile away is bad programming.
I frequently get this with Rogue attacks as well and I agree it's pretty lame. I dodge and still get hit when I'm 10 feet away. And yeah same for GWF. And for the red splats in PvE. It's a bit disappointing for an action combat game when even if you do manage to move out of the way you still get his and take damage.
People need to realize exactly how insane the gear gap is in this game.
I have an 12k GWF 11kTR and 14k GF so I'm doing my best to not be bias by sayin GF is def not OP.
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CW Vrs GF: Stay max range and you win, there's really no excuse for a CW to die to a GF unless they got caught by another CW. I watch CW not using their range all day long, Ray of frost stacks even break guard so its an easy CC chain. 1 CW can take 5 GFs.
GWF Vrs GF: Anywhere close to equal gear the GWF wins about every time, the GF has a small chance if they have their daily to start, otherwise GWF will stomp them. The sent HP build will not die in a CC chain, they will unstoppable, chase or break guard, then CC chain back for the kill.
DC Vrs GF: Im sorry guys, clerics def got the short stick right now, Hammer does good dmg, root is useful and heals are always nice but CC chain is currently the win for PvP. I blame a lot of the cleric's problems on stacking -%def and armor pen for bonus dmg, reducing the effect of their heals and defense. DC really does stand little chance against either Fighter classes right now. You should also blame your group since I rarely see people protecting a cleric.
TR Vrs GF: For the love of god, stop using stealth running up to a GF's face using Lashing blade or Shocking exe and expecting your normal 20k crits; Its not gunna happen. Stealth knives a bit till guard is almost gone, bomb, knives 1-2 more times = dazed/slowed GF with no guard, attack at will. Be prepared to have to disengage, re-stealth dodge and basically not go 1-2-3 like most do, then complain. TR is the only class with the capacity to take all other classes.
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Lunging strike is the easiest ability to dodge in the game. It literally has a 2 second window and that's the best gap closer GF have. As stated before they're slow otherwise, with max 40' range and as such get more base defense while having the rightful same dmg output as other classes. The difference is all their dmg is completely dependent on cooldowns and guard is the way to pace those CD timers. GWF has Unstoppable to pace CDs, CW has Range/Blink and rogues have stealth/dodge to pace. All in all it seems pretty fair to me.
PvP in it's current form is all about 1 mistake 1 slip and you die. I kinda like it myself.
I feel situations like stacking defense debuffs and hit detection/lag are far bigger problems than balance.
How can you properly make a call on balance when you've got horribly bad hit detection?
my cleric stands little to no chance against a GF but I was able to defeat a GWF twice in a row to hold the opponent's base to nudge their side out of a win about 10 minutes ago... my cleric will win against most GWF's due to their lack of defense (freeze them in place, blow them back, attack at will and get divine power up to unload hammer of fate upon them, while healing and continuously kiting... you need really good play skills to pull this stuff off) ... basically I stand no chance on my cleric when I am not allowed to ever attack or everything gets blocked no matter how hard I try to take good position... I end up with about half the kills as about everyone else and if assists scored higher than they do or if they were worth twice as much on nodes as kills on nodes are I'd be scoring much higher ... played a game against mostly GF's tonight and I had one kill and 11 deaths, like I said I stand little to no chance against GFs (most of the rest of my team had respectable kill/death stats)
I’m 60 and only have the gear score to go to any dungeon except Never. Do you think it would be fair to say there are far more GFs in my scenario than there are in yours? Anyway, I can’t do much in the way of damage, I’m just there to run interference with my bashing attacks and provide a languishing annoying enemy for my opponents to kill. If we’re talking a 1 v 1 fight, I should eventually lose every time, or provide a stalemate. I have no range attacks, and everyone is faster than me. Hell, did you see the Gaunt armor for GFs with the penalty to speed?
There’s nothing wrong with GFs. There might be something to be said for equipment though.
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Everyone who says, "x class is op" needs to play that class. Once you do you will realize that classes weaknesses and how to counter them. Gfs tore me up on my cw till i made a gf and realized our frost ray at will freezes them through block. Now they are cake.
Also people need to learn when to fight and when to run. I have won games purely by running away and having 2-3 people on their team chase me (for whatever stupid reason) giving team plenty of time to grab points.
You do realize that nothing should 1v1 a GF right ? They are supposed to be tough and take on 1v2's etc etc. They are supposed to do huge burst and have strong CC. GF's right now still can't tank and need a larger health pool and maybe more natural deflection. I would like to see all GF's in T2 over 40k health. So more buff's in that department be great.
They're tanky enough why u want more HP? they have over 44% defense 30% deflect with Shield that block everything and they have decent damage yet you want bigger HP? You are simply asking for a new OP class. Try to post a thread about "Buff the GF's defense" Hopefully you won't get many negative replies.
Everyone who says, "x class is op" needs to play that class. Once you do you will realize that classes weaknesses and how to counter them. Gfs tore me up on my cw till i made a gf and realized our frost ray at will freezes them through block. Now they are cake.
So does icy rays root.
Pretty glad i specced oppressor with teh free token with all this fotm GF thing going on.
How many times should I repeat these... Classes can not be fully balance in PvP simply because they have their own role in PvE. Just like in a family/gender. Male has its own responsibility in the family so as the female.
How many times should I repeat these... Classes can not be fully balance in PvP simply because they have their own role in PvE. Just like in a family/gender. Male has its own responsibility in the family so as the female.
Using sexism in a pvp balance argument. Classy.
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Comments
GG now i wear cloth armor against plate wearing melee who i now cant cc or dps down. They just move into range and stunlock me. I have to stop to cast they dont.
Control wizard. No control then we are nothing and thats whats bourne out now. GWF cc immune and heals their entire health. GF block until into range and stunlock. Rogues impossible to catch.
These skills eliminate all three of my encounters and leaves me with the nerfed ray of enfeeb. So now i cant cc them im at a disadvantage because i have no armor. All i can do is run and try doing that against a GWF.
Devs WTF are you stupid. You screwed our class.
CWs are a lose the way this game is made because we HAVE to give up the node.
They nerfed our powers our feats are just broken. This game is dumb
Im a GF and i have to agree on this...Just dodge as soon as the Gf reaches you and you will have him...,
If i miss frontline surge or bull charge, my main cc abilitys,i probably have to give up and retreat untill i have CD's again or im stunned/choked/etc. untill death...my at-wills really suck in pvp.
Block is very easy to break, hell rogues brake my block without even leaving stealth with "cloud of skill", or you know , you can just flank me and i will die... cant block 360
You do realize that nothing should 1v1 a GF right ? They are supposed to be tough and take on 1v2's etc etc. They are supposed to do huge burst and have strong CC. GF's right now still can't tank and need a larger health pool and maybe more natural deflection. I would like to see all GF's in T2 over 40k health. So more buff's in that department be great.
So basically you are saying the tank should have high HP, high defenses, high damage, and high CC (stun lock) and he shouldn't have a single counter class? :-/ Mmmm ok....
TR using impossible to catch, dazing strike and smokebomb kills every GF easily.
GF vs Cleric is an annoying 1on1 which takes HOURS!
GF vs GWF is very close.
Why is the GF overpowered? Just because the TR and CWs are the biggest noobs which are available on the server?! Most CWs and TR did never learn to play their class because prepatch they were overpowered and killed everything without any(!) skill. And now theses Bobs are crying because now they need some skill to dominate each PvP match. Well, TR and CW still dominate PvP.
But yes, nerf GF, because high skilled GF using very good equipment are able to kill some lowskilled TR/CW...
And here is the reason:
Very nice sarcasm.
Yeah, ok. Clerics have one choice in a 1v1 vs. GF with proper pvp build, run away and don't turn around, spam dodge. Even then you are just delaying the inevitable. If the cleric doesn't run he will die in a bout 3 seconds.
I play a cleric and I don't mind this personally, if my team decides to ignore the GF while he kills me ad nauseum, this doens't make GF OP, this makes my team terrible. Now if the other team has 2 or 3 GF and I"m playing my cleric I usually just leave, they will all focus me if they are good and I won't be able to play the game aside from Shift-2 and running back to my demise.
Any class is op with full tenebrous build... It just maes the game stoopid, in GF is just more op due to the hp pool stac but that doesn't mean GF is op OMG, is just the enchant with this concrete class (well with anyone)
Buff clerics Cryptic and bring out the ranger class so we can all two-shot each other endlessly.
I have an 12k GWF 11kTR and 14k GF so I'm doing my best to not be bias by sayin GF is def not OP.
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CW Vrs GF: Stay max range and you win, there's really no excuse for a CW to die to a GF unless they got caught by another CW. I watch CW not using their range all day long, Ray of frost stacks even break guard so its an easy CC chain. 1 CW can take 5 GFs.
GWF Vrs GF: Anywhere close to equal gear the GWF wins about every time, the GF has a small chance if they have their daily to start, otherwise GWF will stomp them. The sent HP build will not die in a CC chain, they will unstoppable, chase or break guard, then CC chain back for the kill.
DC Vrs GF: Im sorry guys, clerics def got the short stick right now, Hammer does good dmg, root is useful and heals are always nice but CC chain is currently the win for PvP. I blame a lot of the cleric's problems on stacking -%def and armor pen for bonus dmg, reducing the effect of their heals and defense. DC really does stand little chance against either Fighter classes right now. You should also blame your group since I rarely see people protecting a cleric.
TR Vrs GF: For the love of god, stop using stealth running up to a GF's face using Lashing blade or Shocking exe and expecting your normal 20k crits; Its not gunna happen. Stealth knives a bit till guard is almost gone, bomb, knives 1-2 more times = dazed/slowed GF with no guard, attack at will. Be prepared to have to disengage, re-stealth dodge and basically not go 1-2-3 like most do, then complain. TR is the only class with the capacity to take all other classes.
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Lunging strike is the easiest ability to dodge in the game. It literally has a 2 second window and that's the best gap closer GF have. As stated before they're slow otherwise, with max 40' range and as such get more base defense while having the rightful same dmg output as other classes. The difference is all their dmg is completely dependent on cooldowns and guard is the way to pace those CD timers. GWF has Unstoppable to pace CDs, CW has Range/Blink and rogues have stealth/dodge to pace. All in all it seems pretty fair to me.
PvP in it's current form is all about 1 mistake 1 slip and you die. I kinda like it myself.
I feel situations like stacking defense debuffs and hit detection/lag are far bigger problems than balance.
How can you properly make a call on balance when you've got horribly bad hit detection?
The hit detection is pretty horrible in this game. GWFs encounters hitting you a mile away is bad programming.
I frequently get this with Rogue attacks as well and I agree it's pretty lame. I dodge and still get hit when I'm 10 feet away. And yeah same for GWF. And for the red splats in PvE. It's a bit disappointing for an action combat game when even if you do manage to move out of the way you still get his and take damage.
my cleric stands little to no chance against a GF but I was able to defeat a GWF twice in a row to hold the opponent's base to nudge their side out of a win about 10 minutes ago... my cleric will win against most GWF's due to their lack of defense (freeze them in place, blow them back, attack at will and get divine power up to unload hammer of fate upon them, while healing and continuously kiting... you need really good play skills to pull this stuff off) ... basically I stand no chance on my cleric when I am not allowed to ever attack or everything gets blocked no matter how hard I try to take good position... I end up with about half the kills as about everyone else and if assists scored higher than they do or if they were worth twice as much on nodes as kills on nodes are I'd be scoring much higher ... played a game against mostly GF's tonight and I had one kill and 11 deaths, like I said I stand little to no chance against GFs (most of the rest of my team had respectable kill/death stats)
There’s nothing wrong with GFs. There might be something to be said for equipment though.
Quest ID: NW-DPCZNUVQ7
Also people need to learn when to fight and when to run. I have won games purely by running away and having 2-3 people on their team chase me (for whatever stupid reason) giving team plenty of time to grab points.
They're tanky enough why u want more HP? they have over 44% defense 30% deflect with Shield that block everything and they have decent damage yet you want bigger HP? You are simply asking for a new OP class. Try to post a thread about "Buff the GF's defense" Hopefully you won't get many negative replies.
So does icy rays root.
Pretty glad i specced oppressor with teh free token with all this fotm GF thing going on.
Stop trying to do a 1v1.
and ffs, if you see the red laser and you are not in a position to use it against the GF then just run til it falls off.
GG whiners!
Using sexism in a pvp balance argument. Classy.