Gfs arent that bad. As a cw and a gf i know how to kill one as the other. As cw vs a gf dont mm their block, hit them with your frost ray at will (sorry name is escaping me) while they block the dmg the chill still stacks. Once they arw frozen open up on them with your cc rotation, teleport away a bit, and repeat till dead. With decent arp should only take 2 1/2 rotations to kill them.
As a gf vs a cw, just get close, charge/stun rotation once, and dead.
One more tip vs gfs, remember they deal 15% extra for the first 10-15secs of combat. That is the most critical time to kite them. After that (unless they have temp hp) their dmg is much less. Even on my cw, i can survive a gfs rotation after 15secs (just barely however).
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rapticorMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,078Arc User
edited June 2013
I must be a crappy GF, which is probably the case, because I never 1-2 or 3 shot anyone. Can someone offer tips on that? It sounds like I am missing out.
It's not about damage dealt, it's about dps. What if the CW pushes 90% of the mobs off cliffs? You do less damage but are more efficient. I have finished SP runs with top damage at 8M and others at 13M or 15M.
That depends on the Dungeon's environment. for a Dungeon like SP the CW throw mobs off ledge only at last boss and at some bridges in the middle. you can easily out DPS them as TR because you will be hitting the boss all the time and hitting the mobs during the time the boss disappears.
As for Spider Temple , your only chance for DPS is at last boss as the whole dungeon mobs can be thrown left and right and hence you wont be able to DPS these mobs and the CW will get an advantage over you sometimes that way.
It also depends on how many rogues/GWF you have in your party so the damage from your part can be halfed because the other DPS is already eating up the boss's HP as fast as you do.
Your GF class is far from called a "DPS" you are slow hitter, we hit faster with more crit chance and crit severity so please use some common sense here.
I've Dealt 12kk ++ Dmg in SP with another rogue and a GF in pt ( The GF was out DPSing the other rogue by 1kk damage because the rogue was simply bad). Without any Wipes.
That depends on the Dungeon's environment. for a Dungeon like SP the CW throw mobs off ledge only at last boss and at some bridges in the middle. you can easily out DPS them as TR because you will be hitting the boss all the time and hitting the mobs during the time the boss disappears.
As for Spider Temple , your only chance for DPS is at last boss as the whole dungeon mobs can be thrown left and right and hence you wont be able to DPS these mobs and the CW will get an advantage over you sometimes that way.
It also depends on how many rogues/GWF you have in your party so the damage from your part can be halfed because the other DPS is already eating up the boss's HP as fast as you do.
Your GF class is far from called a "DPS" you are slow hitter, we hit faster with more crit chance and crit severity so please use some common sense here.
I've Dealt 12kk ++ Dmg in SP with another rogue and a GF in pt. Without any Wipes.
You don't understand DPS. Damage per Second: You hit for 100, 10 times per second = 1k dps. You hit for 1k, 1 time per second = 1k dps.
You don't understand DPS. Damage per Second: You hit for 100, 10 times per second = 1k dps. You hit for 1k, 1 time per second = 1k dps.
My "DPS" got death momentum ( like posion effect) and when im stealthed, my dmg becomes even more while im stealthed and after i leave my stealth for 6 seconds . And on my daily each of these mini damages hits with 25% more.Please understand how a good rogue works.
Action Advantage 2/4/6/8/10% additional Action Point for dealing Combat Advantage damage. 5/5
You should constantly be striving to be in combat advantage due to extra damage and feat bonuses. Getting extra action points is very nice as well.
Weapon Mastery 1/2/3% greater chance to land a critical hit. 3/3
This build is based on crit and crit damage. Every bit of crit will help.
.
Cunning Ambusher You deal 2/4/6% more damage for 6 seconds after leaving Stealth 3/3
You should constantly look to fight from stealth when your able. This will stack very nicely with other abilities later discussed.
Endless Assault Your encounters deal 2/4/6% more damage. 3/3
More damage... can't go wrong
Scoundrel Training Your At-Wills deal 3/6/9% more damage to foes not targeting you. 3/3
Clearly not a soloing ability however you in groups you'll nearly always have this damage bonus.
Disciple of Strength Increase the amount of bonus damage Strength gives you by 5/10/15% 2/3
If your Race is Human, I strongly recommend finishing this up with 3/3. Again, more damage always better.
PARAGON
Dazzling Blades Your At-Will powers have a 3/6/9/12/15% chance to reduce the cooldown on recharging Encounter powers by 1 second. 5/5
Get your abilities off CD faster... Can't go wrong
.
Brutal Backstab While Stealthed you critical with 5/10/15/20/25% more severity. 5/5
Bread and butter of this build. This with Lurker's assault and other feats discussed make this build brutal.
Critical Teamwork You and your nearby allies gain a 1/2/3/4/5% chance to crit. 5/5
More crit for you AND your party... YES PLEASE
Duelist’s Flurry has a 5/10/15/20/25% chance to apply ‘Deadly Momentum’ Deadly Momentum; Increases your critical severity by 5% per stack. 5/5
This is an amazing feat. You'll nearly always have all 5 stacks of this with only one DF chain.
Overrun Critical When you land a critical hit, one of your next attacks strikes with 30% of your crit severity.
Amazing ability that allows you to get off some consecutive big crits.
Underhanded Tactics Increase the effectiveness of Combat Advantage for you by 4/8/12/16/20%
As stated before, to maximize your damage, you always want to be in Combat Advantage as much as possible and this will increase the benefits by 20%... again, YES PLEASE!
For better elaboration of how rogue's "DPS" actually works. it isn't just 1k x10... it is varying depending on what feets you are using.
i am a GF but i suck in pvp i have full stalwart and lesser rings and rank 4-5 enchants overall i notice that in solo encounter i am decent 1 vs 1 is a kill or be killed most of the time however they kill me like a fly when there are 2 or 3, i have never killed anyone with a chain of all my encounter attacks, i have just killed a couple only when i have the stalwart bonus and the daily that can be chained at the end, so you tell me that they are op cause they can kill you with a single chain of skills. OMG there are attackes that kill you with one hit , however i do understand that probably once i am full equip i eill probably kill more easily due to the increase in power and armor pen(like 500 more on each base on enchant lvs) yesterday i were killed always by the ice blade thing an dthe TR blade the 2 attacks at the same time always they probably hated me
Everything works out in the end . If it hasn't worked out yet, it isn't the end...
My "DPS" got death momentum ( like posion effect) and when im stealthed, my dmg becomes even more while im stealthed and after i leave my stealth for 6 seconds . And on my daily each of these mini damages hits with 25% more.Please understand how a good rogue works.
So what? Who the **** cares what you do or what I do. It's the outcome in which you or I do more dps. It's just numbers.
I should stop argueing with idiots who don't understand the concept of dps.
100k dmg over 10 secs is ****ing 10k dps no matter how you deliver that 100k damage.
When I said 1k x 1 vs 100 x 10 it was just an example (a "slow hitter" can do the same dps as a "fast hitter"). You are beyond the saving point.
I could explain why my damage is outragous using math instead of subjective claims.
I'll be brutally honest. Did you graduate from elementary school or did you drop out?
I proved my statement with 1st grade math.
I don't think i will discuss that any further with you. You are clearly ignorant about the rogue class and using cheap offensive words in your discussion.
Thanks for your time and effort, but the whole server taking rogues as most damage dealers instead of your class (GF) for a reason. But according to your argument, they are all idiots as me who don't understand how a DPS work.
I don't think i will discuss that any further with you. You are clearly ignorant about the rogue class and using cheap offensive words in your discussion.
Thanks for your time and effort, but the whole server taking rogues as most damage dealers instead of your class (GF) for a reason. But according to your argument, they are all idiots as me who don't understand how a DPS work.
/sarcasm
Can someone chime in and help enlighten this guy. I'm honestly gonna get migraines from his stupidity. I'm not even talking about Rogue vs GF anymore. I'm talking about pure concrete theory.
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fusedmassMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 252Bounty Hunter
edited June 2013
It's odd. All I wanted was a discussion about the over powered of the class. Unless you worked at the game as a Dev, know every single detail on the classes, your first response cannot be "Its not the class, its you" they put in a slight nerf to CW, last patch. I understood that.
Yet is it so difficult for a person to admit their class is a bit over powered. Here. I will repeat my complaint. Its not only they can block an insane number of damage. Its that they can also hit very hard with a crit. They hit harder then rouges in a single hit.
How is that fair to every other class. My complaint, they can wear the strongest gear and hit the hardest. If they charge you stun you once, losing more then half your health. Then before your even able to react because your stunned they can kill you.
For a tank. I say that's a bit over powered.
Its not only me who is complaining about this certain class, its not all because we don't know how to play. Perhaps they need a longer cool down on charge or reduce damage but current formula, isn't working as intended in my humble point of view.
The only thing that needs to be nerfed is nerf requests.
When people continually bawl on the forums about other classes being OP, the company should nerf THEIR toon of that class - not the class - the specific toon of the people complaining it needs a nerf. That way they are subject to what they wanted without everyone who does not want what they are asking for having to be subject to the pecking order being asked for by the same few forumites who always complain about class balance.
I also find it ironic that a few short weeks ago, the same people were bawling that the GF and GWF were not even worth playing, are now complaining they are OP. I commend those who played the classes while the complainers were kicking them from their parties the minute they joined because the complainers didnt believe those classes could contribute.
Stop rolling FOTM characters. They just get nerfed and the people who rolled them complain about the new FOTM being able to beat them.
The only thing that needs to be nerfed is nerf requests.
When people continually bawl on the forums about other classes being OP, the company should nerf THEIR toon of that class. That way they are subject to what they wanted without everyone who does not want what they are asking for having to be subject to the pecking order being asked for by forumites.
I also find it ironic that a few short weeks ago, the same people were bawling that the GF and GWF were not even worth playing, and now they are complaining they are OP. I commend those who played the classes while the complainers were kicking them from their parties the minute they joined because the complainers didnt believe those classes could contribute.
Stop rolling FOTM characters. They just get nerfed and the people who rolled them complain about the new FOTM being able to beat them.
I was stating that GFs were op, because they were and still are. People are dumb, w/e.
Can someone chime in and help enlighten this guy. I'm honestly gonna get migraines from his stupidity. I'm not even talking about Rogue vs GF anymore. I'm talking about pure concrete theory.
And i was discussing Rogue Vs GFs, because your theory doesn't exactly work like that in NW.
if you look at rogue's Feets and powers , you will see that in every hit we make with our "extremely" fast At-will Duelist Flurry , can vary the damage greatly.
Rogues have HUGE crit chance and crit severity compared to your GF, so if you lets say hit 20k within 2 seconds , we can hit 40k within 1.5 seconds.
Rogue can benefits greatly from combat advantage and make them deal insane damage within few seconds.
That's simply what i was trying to say, we hit faster and we hit more.
Your hit is big but slower, the amount you deal within 2 seconds is less than what we deal within 1.5 seconds. Test it youself and see. People picking rogues as Damage dealers and most DPS for a reason.
Ps. Being stubborn mixed with ignorance is stupidity itself.
This is really my last try to explain what i meant (even by applying your "theory")if you still don't get it, then you will see yourself when you get in a party with a 11k+ rogue.
Your theory lack variables, you are considering everything constant. which is why you don't understand a word im typing.
And i was discussing Rogue Vs GFs, because your theory doesn't exactly work like that in NW.
if you look at rogue's Feets and powers , you will see that in every hit we make with our "extremely" fast At-will Duelist Flurry , can vary the damage greatly.
Rogues have HUGE crit chance and crit severity compared to your GF, so if you lets say hit 20k within 2 seconds , we can hit 40k within 1.5 seconds.
Rogue can benefits greatly from combat advantage and make them deal insane damage within few seconds.
That's simply what i was trying to say, we hit faster and we hit more.
Your hit is big but slower, the amount you deal within 2 seconds is less than what we deal within 1.5 seconds. Test it youself and see. People picking rogues as Damage dealers and most DPS for a reason.
Ps. Being stubborn mixed with ignorance is stupidity itself.
This is really my last try to explain what i meant (even by applying your "theory")if you still don't get it, then you will see yourself when you get in a party with a 11k+ rogue.
Your theory lack variables, you are considering everything constant. which is why you don't understand a word im typing.
I didn't say I was ALWAYS talking theory, I transitioned to theory to make you understand how dps works.
You are using numbers that you pulled out from thin air. Who says that you can hit harder AND faster? What kind of subjective bull**** is this?
I outdps 12k GS rogues with rank 9 enchants and a Perfect Vorpal, who use perfect rotations and perfect gear optimization through math that I provide. On top of this, they outdps every other rogue by millions.
I do 60k average dps in CN with 200k peaks.
Show me a f*cking parse or stop inventing numbers.
"Your theory lack variables, you are considering everything constant. which is why you don't understand a word im typing." WTF DOES THAT EVEN MEAN? I was merely explaining how dps works; concept which you don't seem to understand.
Why do you think that the GFs that complained that they were underpowered before the unneeded buffs will outdps you? They are morons.
esteena - I CRT for 114K Last Night in 4/4 Knights Cap set with 6.5k Power... My Buddy GF Next to me in Timeless 4/4 with 10.5k Power... CRT for 156k Last Night.
esteena - I CRT for 114K Last Night in 4/4 Knights Cap set with 6.5k Power... My Buddy GF Next to me in Timeless 4/4 with 10.5k Power... CRT for 156k Last Night.
esteena - I CRT for 114K Last Night in 4/4 Knights Cap set with 6.5k Power... My Buddy GF Next to me in Timeless 4/4 with 10.5k Power... CRT for 156k Last Night.
I like my slow attacks.
BUT NO! YOU CAN'T ATTACK SLOWLY AND DO HIGH DPS!
/sarcasm
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fusedmassMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 252Bounty Hunter
It's not attacking slowly, its moving slowing. That's the only negative draw back, I have to work with. A tank should not be doing higher DPS on average, then actual pure DPS classes. In my point of view that's the entire purpose of a DPS class, and a Tank is built for damage.
People love to inject their dose of sarcasm, laced with jokes. How its "all about the player" if that's true. Then why are they still nerfing, and buffing classes. Why would they even have one more patch on abilities if everything was truly balanced.
I guess to some, instead of an actual, proper debate. Some people only know how to insult from the protection of behind their computer screen. I at least, try to be civil about things.
Are other people equally complaining about their class because they don't know how to play theirs. Could it be, we have a small point. Its not like I want them nerfed to the ground. Watching them play numerous, numerous times with different people in PVP come to draw their a tad over powered.
If you don't agree that's fine, but you don't have to be jerk about it.
People don't argue with logic, therefore, most of the time their arguements have 0 validity. On the rest of your post: is that directed at me? Because everything you said doesn't apply to my posts. Although I am guilty of insulting people once they have failed to comprehend logical points or simple math in the most mind-numbingly, stubborn way.
I know you haven't read anything I've said because I'm a dps GF claiming that dps GFs are op.
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fusedmassMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 252Bounty Hunter
People don't argue with logic, therefore, most of the time their arguements have 0 validity. On the rest of your post: is that directed at me? Because everything you said doesn't apply to my posts. Although I am guilty of insulting people once they have failed to comprehend logical points or simple math in the most mind-numbingly, stubborn way.
I know you haven't read anything I've said because I'm a dps GF claiming that dps GFs are op.
The part of my post directed at you is the insult. You're correct. I haven't kept up with every single page. I don't know what you said back there. However I only caught when you said "attacking slowly" I figured it was a rip on my message when I said they "Move slowly" something misunderstanding that I said "Guardians attack slowly"
Guardians only negative drawback in PVP, is that they move slowly. Yet the rest my post directed at the people who believe the class is perfectly balanced. That nothing could possibly be wrong. The entire design of patching a game, is to fix certain ability's. For example CW were nerfed on a number of things last patch that no one complained about.
none of what you say matters, if anyone ends up 1v1 against a cw without a good bit of luck, you die. If you try to 2v1 them, you both get hit a bunch and never catch him
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fusedmassMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 252Bounty Hunter
none of what you say matters, if anyone ends up 1v1 against a cw without a good bit of luck, you die. If you try to 2v1 them, you both get hit a bunch and never catch him
That is so massively incorrect.
Let me explain. CW have Blink ability yet this has a cool down, only can be used twice in lets say a very short period of time. Since we wear cloth if we do get hit. It takes a massive chunk of damage.
Advantage for CW, is being ranged. The disadvantage is wearing cloth. I'm sure many people killed CW one on one.
My complaint is that the Guardian can block even the biggest attacks from a CW do little damage against them.
. Not to mention. If I'm hit a single time from a Guardian, lets say from a charge. I'm knocked down. Half my health is gone and before I can do anything. (Still stunned) they can destroy me.
Guardians can be said to be overpowered, but really the issue is crowd control and the lack of diminishing returns on them.
Any class that can chain CC is extremely strong in pvp thus all the whine from clerics who have extremely limited CC (basically no hard CC aside from daily guardian angel).
Both GWF and GF can chain CC very well. GF also has the advantage of making it's target prone, thus GWF cannot use unstoppable, TR cannot use ITC. Some CW builds can chain pretty well too.
The strength of control in teh game really takes away from skill in pvp since killing your opponents really boils down to chaining cc on them and they cna't fight back and don't stand a chance of preventing their demise.
Guardians can be said to be overpowered, but really the issue is crowd control and the lack of diminishing returns on them.
Any class that can chain CC is extremely strong in pvp thus all the whine from clerics who have extremely limited CC (basically no hard CC aside from daily guardian angel).
Both GWF and GF can chain CC very well. GF also has the advantage of making it's target prone, thus GWF cannot use unstoppable, TR cannot use ITC. Some CW builds can chain pretty well too.
The strength of control in teh game really takes away from skill in pvp since killing your opponents really boils down to chaining cc on them and they cna't fight back and don't stand a chance of preventing their demise.
Place a 30% Damage Reduction in PvP
Lower healing by 30%
DRs on CCs
GG, now PvP isn't 100% about one shotting or perma cc.
Although something would have to be done about GF and GWF survability in PvP.
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honoraryorangeMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Guardians can be said to be overpowered, but really the issue is crowd control and the lack of diminishing returns on them.
Any class that can chain CC is extremely strong in pvp thus all the whine from clerics who have extremely limited CC (basically no hard CC aside from daily guardian angel).
Both GWF and GF can chain CC very well. GF also has the advantage of making it's target prone, thus GWF cannot use unstoppable, TR cannot use ITC. Some CW builds can chain pretty well too.
The strength of control in teh game really takes away from skill in pvp since killing your opponents really boils down to chaining cc on them and they cna't fight back and don't stand a chance of preventing their demise.
I think that's the real kicker. GF currently does amazing damage, it also has multiple (and a chain castable) charge/intercept type ability, combined with CC that is arguably better than a control class can provide. Slowness is not much of an issue unless they start very far away (in which case there's places to move away and hide in every dungeon).
Basically the problem with GF:
+Massive damage
+Great single target CC (multitarget in the big shield bash)
+Great mid-range closing ability
+Great hit points
+Great mitigation
-Poor long range closability
It doesn't really balance out.
Same with GWF, especially the new specs where they're constantly unstoppable and spamming their regen. They're nearly impossible to get away from, non-CC'able more than 50% of the time, and heal themselves twice as a well as a cleric, and can double CC you (one of which is undodgable) and kill you in a few seconds if they're very well geared.
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rapticorMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,078Arc User
My complaint is that the Guardian can block even the biggest attacks from a CW do little damage against them.
Block isn't limitless. Try playing a GF and see how long the guard meter actually lasts. And don't say you have because based on your post you obviously haven't.
I personally think TRs are overpowered but I don't go crying they should be nerfed since that's only going to hurt them in PvE. The only thing that needs nerfing is how those lame tenebrous enchants work.
Comments
As a gf vs a cw, just get close, charge/stun rotation once, and dead.
One more tip vs gfs, remember they deal 15% extra for the first 10-15secs of combat. That is the most critical time to kite them. After that (unless they have temp hp) their dmg is much less. Even on my cw, i can survive a gfs rotation after 15secs (just barely however).
Dont ask me which spells i use, secret
That depends on the Dungeon's environment. for a Dungeon like SP the CW throw mobs off ledge only at last boss and at some bridges in the middle. you can easily out DPS them as TR because you will be hitting the boss all the time and hitting the mobs during the time the boss disappears.
As for Spider Temple , your only chance for DPS is at last boss as the whole dungeon mobs can be thrown left and right and hence you wont be able to DPS these mobs and the CW will get an advantage over you sometimes that way.
It also depends on how many rogues/GWF you have in your party so the damage from your part can be halfed because the other DPS is already eating up the boss's HP as fast as you do.
Your GF class is far from called a "DPS" you are slow hitter, we hit faster with more crit chance and crit severity so please use some common sense here.
I've Dealt 12kk ++ Dmg in SP with another rogue and a GF in pt ( The GF was out DPSing the other rogue by 1kk damage because the rogue was simply bad). Without any Wipes.
My "DPS" got death momentum ( like posion effect) and when im stealthed, my dmg becomes even more while im stealthed and after i leave my stealth for 6 seconds . And on my daily each of these mini damages hits with 25% more.Please understand how a good rogue works.
For better elaboration of how rogue's "DPS" actually works. it isn't just 1k x10... it is varying depending on what feets you are using.
I should stop argueing with idiots who don't understand the concept of dps.
100k dmg over 10 secs is ****ing 10k dps no matter how you deliver that 100k damage.
When I said 1k x 1 vs 100 x 10 it was just an example (a "slow hitter" can do the same dps as a "fast hitter"). You are beyond the saving point.
I could explain why my damage is outragous using math instead of subjective claims.
This is where we disagree.
I'll be brutally honest. Did you graduate from elementary school or did you drop out?
I proved my statement with 1st grade math.
I don't think i will discuss that any further with you. You are clearly ignorant about the rogue class and using cheap offensive words in your discussion.
Thanks for your time and effort, but the whole server taking rogues as most damage dealers instead of your class (GF) for a reason. But according to your argument, they are all idiots as me who don't understand how a DPS work.
/sarcasm
Can someone chime in and help enlighten this guy. I'm honestly gonna get migraines from his stupidity. I'm not even talking about Rogue vs GF anymore. I'm talking about pure concrete theory.
Yet is it so difficult for a person to admit their class is a bit over powered. Here. I will repeat my complaint. Its not only they can block an insane number of damage. Its that they can also hit very hard with a crit. They hit harder then rouges in a single hit.
How is that fair to every other class. My complaint, they can wear the strongest gear and hit the hardest. If they charge you stun you once, losing more then half your health. Then before your even able to react because your stunned they can kill you.
For a tank. I say that's a bit over powered.
Its not only me who is complaining about this certain class, its not all because we don't know how to play. Perhaps they need a longer cool down on charge or reduce damage but current formula, isn't working as intended in my humble point of view.
When people continually bawl on the forums about other classes being OP, the company should nerf THEIR toon of that class - not the class - the specific toon of the people complaining it needs a nerf. That way they are subject to what they wanted without everyone who does not want what they are asking for having to be subject to the pecking order being asked for by the same few forumites who always complain about class balance.
I also find it ironic that a few short weeks ago, the same people were bawling that the GF and GWF were not even worth playing, are now complaining they are OP. I commend those who played the classes while the complainers were kicking them from their parties the minute they joined because the complainers didnt believe those classes could contribute.
Stop rolling FOTM characters. They just get nerfed and the people who rolled them complain about the new FOTM being able to beat them.
I was stating that GFs were op, because they were and still are. People are dumb, w/e.
And i was discussing Rogue Vs GFs, because your theory doesn't exactly work like that in NW.
if you look at rogue's Feets and powers , you will see that in every hit we make with our "extremely" fast At-will Duelist Flurry , can vary the damage greatly.
Rogues have HUGE crit chance and crit severity compared to your GF, so if you lets say hit 20k within 2 seconds , we can hit 40k within 1.5 seconds.
Rogue can benefits greatly from combat advantage and make them deal insane damage within few seconds.
That's simply what i was trying to say, we hit faster and we hit more.
Your hit is big but slower, the amount you deal within 2 seconds is less than what we deal within 1.5 seconds. Test it youself and see. People picking rogues as Damage dealers and most DPS for a reason.
Ps. Being stubborn mixed with ignorance is stupidity itself.
This is really my last try to explain what i meant (even by applying your "theory")if you still don't get it, then you will see yourself when you get in a party with a 11k+ rogue.
Your theory lack variables, you are considering everything constant. which is why you don't understand a word im typing.
You are using numbers that you pulled out from thin air. Who says that you can hit harder AND faster? What kind of subjective bull**** is this?
I outdps 12k GS rogues with rank 9 enchants and a Perfect Vorpal, who use perfect rotations and perfect gear optimization through math that I provide. On top of this, they outdps every other rogue by millions.
I do 60k average dps in CN with 200k peaks.
Show me a f*cking parse or stop inventing numbers.
"Your theory lack variables, you are considering everything constant. which is why you don't understand a word im typing." WTF DOES THAT EVEN MEAN? I was merely explaining how dps works; concept which you don't seem to understand.
Why do you think that the GFs that complained that they were underpowered before the unneeded buffs will outdps you? They are morons.
I like my slow attacks.
That's cute.
BUT NO! YOU CAN'T ATTACK SLOWLY AND DO HIGH DPS!
/sarcasm
It's not attacking slowly, its moving slowing. That's the only negative draw back, I have to work with. A tank should not be doing higher DPS on average, then actual pure DPS classes. In my point of view that's the entire purpose of a DPS class, and a Tank is built for damage.
People love to inject their dose of sarcasm, laced with jokes. How its "all about the player" if that's true. Then why are they still nerfing, and buffing classes. Why would they even have one more patch on abilities if everything was truly balanced.
I guess to some, instead of an actual, proper debate. Some people only know how to insult from the protection of behind their computer screen. I at least, try to be civil about things.
Are other people equally complaining about their class because they don't know how to play theirs. Could it be, we have a small point. Its not like I want them nerfed to the ground. Watching them play numerous, numerous times with different people in PVP come to draw their a tad over powered.
If you don't agree that's fine, but you don't have to be jerk about it.
I know you haven't read anything I've said because I'm a dps GF claiming that dps GFs are op.
The part of my post directed at you is the insult. You're correct. I haven't kept up with every single page. I don't know what you said back there. However I only caught when you said "attacking slowly" I figured it was a rip on my message when I said they "Move slowly" something misunderstanding that I said "Guardians attack slowly"
Guardians only negative drawback in PVP, is that they move slowly. Yet the rest my post directed at the people who believe the class is perfectly balanced. That nothing could possibly be wrong. The entire design of patching a game, is to fix certain ability's. For example CW were nerfed on a number of things last patch that no one complained about.
That is so massively incorrect.
Let me explain. CW have Blink ability yet this has a cool down, only can be used twice in lets say a very short period of time. Since we wear cloth if we do get hit. It takes a massive chunk of damage.
Advantage for CW, is being ranged. The disadvantage is wearing cloth. I'm sure many people killed CW one on one.
My complaint is that the Guardian can block even the biggest attacks from a CW do little damage against them.
. Not to mention. If I'm hit a single time from a Guardian, lets say from a charge. I'm knocked down. Half my health is gone and before I can do anything. (Still stunned) they can destroy me.
Any class that can chain CC is extremely strong in pvp thus all the whine from clerics who have extremely limited CC (basically no hard CC aside from daily guardian angel).
Both GWF and GF can chain CC very well. GF also has the advantage of making it's target prone, thus GWF cannot use unstoppable, TR cannot use ITC. Some CW builds can chain pretty well too.
The strength of control in teh game really takes away from skill in pvp since killing your opponents really boils down to chaining cc on them and they cna't fight back and don't stand a chance of preventing their demise.
Place a 30% Damage Reduction in PvP
Lower healing by 30%
DRs on CCs
GG, now PvP isn't 100% about one shotting or perma cc.
Although something would have to be done about GF and GWF survability in PvP.
I think that's the real kicker. GF currently does amazing damage, it also has multiple (and a chain castable) charge/intercept type ability, combined with CC that is arguably better than a control class can provide. Slowness is not much of an issue unless they start very far away (in which case there's places to move away and hide in every dungeon).
Basically the problem with GF:
+Massive damage
+Great single target CC (multitarget in the big shield bash)
+Great mid-range closing ability
+Great hit points
+Great mitigation
-Poor long range closability
It doesn't really balance out.
Same with GWF, especially the new specs where they're constantly unstoppable and spamming their regen. They're nearly impossible to get away from, non-CC'able more than 50% of the time, and heal themselves twice as a well as a cleric, and can double CC you (one of which is undodgable) and kill you in a few seconds if they're very well geared.
Block isn't limitless. Try playing a GF and see how long the guard meter actually lasts. And don't say you have because based on your post you obviously haven't.
I personally think TRs are overpowered but I don't go crying they should be nerfed since that's only going to hurt them in PvE. The only thing that needs nerfing is how those lame tenebrous enchants work.