Yes: Shield, Choke, Steal Time, Repel
No: Icy Terrain (sucks i use this in my main cc rotation, its definitely control)
Untested: Rest
Also tried some dailies, none seem to proc it.. Blackhole is like the ultimate control so odd it doesn't.
I can say with some certainty that Ice Knife will add three stacks of the debuff to targets but only add one stack of the buff to you, but I don't know about other dailies.
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mahabodhiMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 12Arc User
edited June 2013
Chill Strike and Icy Terrain proc the debuff but not the buff.
I'm refreshing this thread because I would like to ask you about performance of High Vizier set post-patch.
1. Does it finally work 100% as the description says, no bugs anymore?
2. Furthermore, set description says it steals 450 defense from the target and adds this amount to caster's defense. Let's say your skills affect 10 targets so does it stack in any way? Or is it just -450 def for any target and +450 def (regardless of targets) for a caster. 450 doesn't seem like a lot, especially for full set bonus...
3. What is this set performance against the bosses? I imagine they got looots of defense so again, 450 doesn't seem to make much difference.
Thanks for clearing this up!
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tazeenMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 3Arc User
edited June 2013
I agree.. High vizier is so cheap now... does that mean it is NOT BiS?
I agree.. High vizier is so cheap now... does that mean it is NOT BiS?
whats the meaning of BiS?
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ssimeone79Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 2Arc User
edited June 2013
It means Best in Slot, ie like lets say Sword X is BiS for a Tank Guardian, it means that there is no other better weapon for the tank to use for that preferred role.
This set is deficiently good choice for PvE. If you intend to do PvP a lot and focus on Crit Shadow Weaver's may be a bit better. But there is no bad choice really, both are very good sets for any CW.
How about the pvp gear and its 25% recovery on encounters ?
The shadow weaver is kind if expensive though i could mix it and get the 2 cheapest part for + 450 crit then get 2 other part from another set. Which others 2 part set would you advice in that case ?
I am a pvp player mainly, have a full geared rogue and GWF senti for pvp but im bored of both. I hate playing rogue in pve and gwf well no one wants it lol
So CW is my new choice to have fun in pvp and to be able for farm T2 CN for AD etc... and fun
It means Best in Slot, ie like lets say Sword X is BiS for a Tank Guardian, it means that there is no other better weapon for the tank to use for that preferred role.
One thing about the HV set. "Control" powers currently working are only: Entangling Force (up to 3 stacks); Shield Blast (up to 3 stacks); and Steal Time (only 1 stack). So be sure these are powers you frequently use before investing.
I have tested on dummies and if memory serves, Repel, Chill Strike, Conduit of Ice, and Icy Terrain do not proc the set bonus... if anybody knows differently, please advise.
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honoraryorangeMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 0Arc User
One thing about the HV set. "Control" powers currently working are only: Entangling Force (up to 3 stacks); Shield Blast (up to 3 stacks); and Steal Time (only 1 stack). So be sure these are powers you frequently use before investing.
I have tested on dummies and if memory serves, Repel, Chill Strike, Conduit of Ice, and Icy Terrain do not proc the set bonus... if anybody knows differently, please advise.
This is not complete information. Some spells proc the defensive portion of this proc, and different spells proc the offensive (drain) portion.
It is arguably the better Set. Since pretty much any CW spec will be using Powers that proc both effects, so it is not even an issue. Also now that Chill Strike procs it on a normal slot, it is even better. Crazy better since it seems to stack if you have another CW using it as well. So you can have 6x stacks of the debuff on the boss.
It is arguably the better Set. Since pretty much any CW spec will be using Powers that proc both effects, so it is not even an issue. Also now that Chill Strike procs it on a normal slot, it is even better. Crazy better since it seems to stack if you have another CW using it as well. So you can have 6x stacks of the debuff on the boss.
In my testing (just now) Chill Strike does not apply the bonus to either the target or me. All of the effects that work, work on both the targets and me, but there are a couple of interesting points.
1. Repel works. It applies one stack to the targets, and up to 3 on me if in Mastery slot and multiple targets.
2. Steal Time only puts 1 stack on me, no matter how many targets, but when 3 targets in range, they get 3 stacks. Weird.
The other spells work as you'd expect, if they work at all: Entangling Force and Steal Time.
Repeating: Does not work on either targets or self (on dummies, anyway) for Chill Strike, Conduit of Ice, Icy Terrain, or Ray of Enfeeblement.
In my testing (just now) Chill Strike does not apply the bonus to either the target or me. All of the effects that work, work on both the targets and me, but there are a couple of interesting points.
1. Repel works. It applies one stack to the targets, and up to 3 on me if in Mastery slot and multiple targets.
2. Steal Time only puts 1 stack on me, no matter how many targets, but when 3 targets in range, they get 3 stacks. Weird.
The other spells work as you'd expect, if they work at all: Entangling Force and Steal Time.
Repeating: Does not work on either targets or self (on dummies, anyway) for Chill Strike, Conduit of Ice, Icy Terrain, Chill Strike, or Ray of Enfeeblement.
Repeating: Chill Strike(not in Tab) does put 3 stacks on Enemy
KING Ethan Ma ChaoLu Xun - Dragon Shard - Black Lotus
From my own testing on dummies with no companion summoned,
Steal Time: 3x debuff per target, 1x buff total.
Steal Time (Spell Mastery): 3x debuff per target, 2x buff total (yeah, weird).
Entangling: 1x debuff, 1x buff.
Entangling (Spell Mastery): 1x debuff per target, 1x buff per target up to 3x.
Shield: 1x debuff per target, 1x buff per target up to 3x.
Shield (Spell Mastery): 1x debuff per target, 1x buff per target up to 3x.
Chill Strike: 2x debuff, no buff.
Chill Strike (Spell Mastery): 3x debuff on main target, 1x debuff on flank targets, no buff.
Icy Terrain: 1x debuff per target, no buff.
Icy Terrain (Spell Mastery): 1x debuff per target, no buff.
Repel: 1x debuff, 1x buff.
Repel (Spell Mastery): 1x debuff per target, 1x buff per target up to 3x.
Icy Rays 1+2: no debuff, no buff.
Icy Rays 1+2 (Spell Mastery): no debuff, no buff.
Conduit of Ice: no debuff, no buff. Checked with full stacks and for synergy with Icy Terrain: none.
Conduit of Ice (Spell Mastery): no debuff, no buff. Checked with full stacks and for synergy with Icy Terrain: none.
Shard of the Endless Avalanche: 1x debuff per target up to 2 targets (?! tested this 5 times), no buff.
Shard of the Endless Avalanche (Spell Mastery): 1x debuff (never more than one for both targetting circles total, no flank debuffs), no buff.
Sudden Storm: no debuff, no buff.
Sudden Storm (Spell Mastery): no debuff, no buff.
Ray of Enfeeblement: no debuff, no buff.
Ray of Enfeeblement (Spell Mastery): no debuff, no buff.
Ice Knife: 3x debuff, no buff.
Ice Storm: 2x debuff per target (I had to remove my accessories to stop killing all the dummies!), no buff.
Arcane Singularity: no debuff, no buff.
Maelstrom of Chaos: no debuff, no buff.
All At-Wills: no debuff, no buff. Tested to full stacks where applicable.
To be complete: I had Eye of the Storm + Storm Spell class features equipped at all times.
So, it would appear that the main issue is getting the buff. You should get some kind of debuff up to 3x using obvious control spells and those spells with control elements. The odd ones out, other than the weird results, is Conduit of Ice (no benefit at all), Icy Rays (no benefit at all), Icy Terrain (no buff), and Chill Strike (no buff).
This makes the set rather less useful than expected for general survivability purposes (I'd rather take a flat 2k Defense over this randomness any day, if survival was critical). But good for group debuffing and group damage, especially trash monsters.
Thanks, Fond, helpful stuff. My experiments were rushed so I'm willing to concede your information is more accurate. Main point is, be sure the skills you use are make the Set worth it. In PvE, EF alone is worth it. In PvP, might depend on your set-up...
From my own testing on dummies with no companion summoned,
Steal Time: 3x debuff per target, 1x buff total.
Steal Time (Spell Mastery): 3x debuff per target, 2x buff total (yeah, weird).
Entangling: 1x debuff, 1x buff.
Entangling (Spell Mastery): 1x debuff per target, 1x buff per target up to 3x.
Shield: 1x debuff per target, 1x buff per target up to 3x.
Shield (Spell Mastery): 1x debuff per target, 1x buff per target up to 3x.
Chill Strike: 2x debuff, no buff.
Chill Strike (Spell Mastery): 3x debuff on main target, 1x debuff on flank targets, no buff.
Icy Terrain: 1x debuff per target, no buff.
Icy Terrain (Spell Mastery): 1x debuff per target, no buff.
Repel: 1x debuff, 1x buff.
Repel (Spell Mastery): 1x debuff per target, 1x buff per target up to 3x.
Icy Rays 1+2: no debuff, no buff.
Icy Rays 1+2 (Spell Mastery): no debuff, no buff.
Conduit of Ice: no debuff, no buff. Checked with full stacks and for synergy with Icy Terrain: none.
Conduit of Ice (Spell Mastery): no debuff, no buff. Checked with full stacks and for synergy with Icy Terrain: none.
Shard of the Endless Avalanche: 1x debuff per target up to 2 targets (?! tested this 5 times), no buff.
Shard of the Endless Avalanche (Spell Mastery): 1x debuff (never more than one for both targetting circles total, no flank debuffs), no buff.
Sudden Storm: no debuff, no buff.
Sudden Storm (Spell Mastery): no debuff, no buff.
Ray of Enfeeblement: no debuff, no buff.
Ray of Enfeeblement (Spell Mastery): no debuff, no buff.
Ice Knife: 3x debuff, no buff.
Ice Storm: 2x debuff per target (I had to remove my accessories to stop killing all the dummies!), no buff.
Arcane Singularity: no debuff, no buff.
Maelstrom of Chaos: no debuff, no buff.
All At-Wills: no debuff, no buff. Tested to full stacks where applicable.
To be complete: I had Eye of the Storm + Storm Spell class features equipped at all times.
So, it would appear that the main issue is getting the buff. You should get some kind of debuff up to 3x using obvious control spells and those spells with control elements. The odd ones out, other than the weird results, is Conduit of Ice (no benefit at all), Icy Rays (no benefit at all), Icy Terrain (no buff), and Chill Strike (no buff).
This makes the set rather less useful than expected for general survivability purposes (I'd rather take a flat 2k Defense over this randomness any day, if survival was critical). But good for group debuffing and group damage, especially trash monsters.
I dont know if anything changed in the last week or so, but from my tests, you can get the 3x stacks buff from Shield Pulse, then within 3sec use Steal Time and it will refresh all 3 stacks. So Theoretically you can have the buff up for 12sec. 2-3 Seconds later, your shield should be off of cooldown.
I dont know if anything changed in the last week or so, but from my tests, you can get the 3x stacks buff from Shield Pulse, then within 3sec use Steal Time and it will refresh all 3 stacks. So Theoretically you can have the buff up for 12sec. 2-3 Seconds later, your shield should be off of cooldown.
No matter what I do, I am unable to get Shield Pulse to instantly give 3x stacks debuff or buff from a single target.
I think in that combo, it is Steal Time doing the heavy lifting based on my testing. I just retested it again.
the high vizier set is 100% BiS for PvE, thats all I can say. the 3 stacks of debuff from 1 chillstrike is very OP, learn to use it and you'll see. I don't want to go into further detail because it will probably be patched, leaving the CW with nothing to offer
edit: with or without that defense buff on YOU, is not important at all. you get the set for the debuff on enemy. making it better than SW
KING Ethan Ma ChaoLu Xun - Dragon Shard - Black Lotus
almost everyone in pvp has some defense, with a little bit of arp for their AC along with ripping away their defense stat, you melt anything with high vizier on. (ice-ray tab, conduit, entangling, chill strike.) is what i use, ray or conduit first, then chill/entangling, ice knife or icy rays. everything seems to be squishy. When i pvp any target (apart from sentinel gwfs) are killable in one or 2 rotations.
As for PvE i would say its the best too, ive got rank 7 enchants (5 still on my stone) and i have 2700 crit. so makes shadow weaver pretty useless in my eyes, which was only good for the stats.
currently im at 4500 power, 2700 crit, 3200 recov, 1600 arp. im in the process of improving my stone to get the ARP up to 1800-1900.
Anyone using HV for PvP that also used the PvP set at some point? I would like to hear some comparisons and opinions if you don't mind.
i do
regarding comparisons, it really depends on the build.
for me if you are going to use HV its better to be a thau, and shadow weaver-renegade. currently im testing HV-renegade, but im not sure how effective would this be, since HV sacrifices your crit and renegade is crit base path
Fond's information makes this set pretty unattractive for PvP compared to Shadow or the PvP set, in my opinion. I don't use any of the abilities that work, including entangling force, except for chill strike, so pretty minimal application for me. Even if you run entangling force, it's doubtful you'd do so in mastery (little point), so the benefits would be pretty minimal.
PvE is another matter altogether. Since most of the time CW's run with Steal Time and Shield, I believe this is the BiS unless you are running a pure DPS/crit build, especially for a Thaumaturge. The debuffing is phenomenal, including the potential to increase it with Plague Fire enchant. Your party will love you...
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honoraryorangeMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited June 2013
PvE it doesn't matter. You can do PvE in any set as long as you have enough +recovery and not much else matters.
PVP Shadow Weaver is still better just for the stats it has.
Comments
1. Does it finally work 100% as the description says, no bugs anymore?
2. Furthermore, set description says it steals 450 defense from the target and adds this amount to caster's defense. Let's say your skills affect 10 targets so does it stack in any way? Or is it just -450 def for any target and +450 def (regardless of targets) for a caster. 450 doesn't seem like a lot, especially for full set bonus...
3. What is this set performance against the bosses? I imagine they got looots of defense so again, 450 doesn't seem to make much difference.
Thanks for clearing this up!
whats the meaning of BiS?
So is this set like the top pvp one now ?
Does the 4 pieces bonus works since release ?
ty for answers
This set is deficiently good choice for PvE. If you intend to do PvP a lot and focus on Crit Shadow Weaver's may be a bit better. But there is no bad choice really, both are very good sets for any CW.
HV set bonus used to have its issues but after recent patch it works alright. -1350 defence for your targets +1350 defence for you at 3 stacks.
How about the pvp gear and its 25% recovery on encounters ?
The shadow weaver is kind if expensive though i could mix it and get the 2 cheapest part for + 450 crit then get 2 other part from another set. Which others 2 part set would you advice in that case ?
I am a pvp player mainly, have a full geared rogue and GWF senti for pvp but im bored of both. I hate playing rogue in pve and gwf well no one wants it lol
So CW is my new choice to have fun in pvp and to be able for farm T2 CN for AD etc... and fun
oh ok thanks
I have tested on dummies and if memory serves, Repel, Chill Strike, Conduit of Ice, and Icy Terrain do not proc the set bonus... if anybody knows differently, please advise.
This is not complete information. Some spells proc the defensive portion of this proc, and different spells proc the offensive (drain) portion.
It sucks.
In my testing (just now) Chill Strike does not apply the bonus to either the target or me. All of the effects that work, work on both the targets and me, but there are a couple of interesting points.
1. Repel works. It applies one stack to the targets, and up to 3 on me if in Mastery slot and multiple targets.
2. Steal Time only puts 1 stack on me, no matter how many targets, but when 3 targets in range, they get 3 stacks. Weird.
The other spells work as you'd expect, if they work at all: Entangling Force and Steal Time.
Repeating: Does not work on either targets or self (on dummies, anyway) for Chill Strike, Conduit of Ice, Icy Terrain, or Ray of Enfeeblement.
Repeating: Chill Strike(not in Tab) does put 3 stacks on Enemy
Check out my CW Oppressor Tank Guide Here
Confirmed, my mistake! None on me, 3 on all three target dummies. Doesn't work at all when not in Mastery.
Steal Time: 3x debuff per target, 1x buff total.
Steal Time (Spell Mastery): 3x debuff per target, 2x buff total (yeah, weird).
Entangling: 1x debuff, 1x buff.
Entangling (Spell Mastery): 1x debuff per target, 1x buff per target up to 3x.
Shield: 1x debuff per target, 1x buff per target up to 3x.
Shield (Spell Mastery): 1x debuff per target, 1x buff per target up to 3x.
Chill Strike: 2x debuff, no buff.
Chill Strike (Spell Mastery): 3x debuff on main target, 1x debuff on flank targets, no buff.
Icy Terrain: 1x debuff per target, no buff.
Icy Terrain (Spell Mastery): 1x debuff per target, no buff.
Repel: 1x debuff, 1x buff.
Repel (Spell Mastery): 1x debuff per target, 1x buff per target up to 3x.
Icy Rays 1+2: no debuff, no buff.
Icy Rays 1+2 (Spell Mastery): no debuff, no buff.
Conduit of Ice: no debuff, no buff. Checked with full stacks and for synergy with Icy Terrain: none.
Conduit of Ice (Spell Mastery): no debuff, no buff. Checked with full stacks and for synergy with Icy Terrain: none.
Shard of the Endless Avalanche: 1x debuff per target up to 2 targets (?! tested this 5 times), no buff.
Shard of the Endless Avalanche (Spell Mastery): 1x debuff (never more than one for both targetting circles total, no flank debuffs), no buff.
Sudden Storm: no debuff, no buff.
Sudden Storm (Spell Mastery): no debuff, no buff.
Ray of Enfeeblement: no debuff, no buff.
Ray of Enfeeblement (Spell Mastery): no debuff, no buff.
Ice Knife: 3x debuff, no buff.
Ice Storm: 2x debuff per target (I had to remove my accessories to stop killing all the dummies!), no buff.
Arcane Singularity: no debuff, no buff.
Maelstrom of Chaos: no debuff, no buff.
All At-Wills: no debuff, no buff. Tested to full stacks where applicable.
To be complete: I had Eye of the Storm + Storm Spell class features equipped at all times.
So, it would appear that the main issue is getting the buff. You should get some kind of debuff up to 3x using obvious control spells and those spells with control elements. The odd ones out, other than the weird results, is Conduit of Ice (no benefit at all), Icy Rays (no benefit at all), Icy Terrain (no buff), and Chill Strike (no buff).
This makes the set rather less useful than expected for general survivability purposes (I'd rather take a flat 2k Defense over this randomness any day, if survival was critical). But good for group debuffing and group damage, especially trash monsters.
I dont know if anything changed in the last week or so, but from my tests, you can get the 3x stacks buff from Shield Pulse, then within 3sec use Steal Time and it will refresh all 3 stacks. So Theoretically you can have the buff up for 12sec. 2-3 Seconds later, your shield should be off of cooldown.
No matter what I do, I am unable to get Shield Pulse to instantly give 3x stacks debuff or buff from a single target.
I think in that combo, it is Steal Time doing the heavy lifting based on my testing. I just retested it again.
edit: with or without that defense buff on YOU, is not important at all. you get the set for the debuff on enemy. making it better than SW
Check out my CW Oppressor Tank Guide Here
almost everyone in pvp has some defense, with a little bit of arp for their AC along with ripping away their defense stat, you melt anything with high vizier on. (ice-ray tab, conduit, entangling, chill strike.) is what i use, ray or conduit first, then chill/entangling, ice knife or icy rays. everything seems to be squishy. When i pvp any target (apart from sentinel gwfs) are killable in one or 2 rotations.
As for PvE i would say its the best too, ive got rank 7 enchants (5 still on my stone) and i have 2700 crit. so makes shadow weaver pretty useless in my eyes, which was only good for the stats.
currently im at 4500 power, 2700 crit, 3200 recov, 1600 arp. im in the process of improving my stone to get the ARP up to 1800-1900.
and also the featured satirical comedic adventure "A Call for Heroes".
i do
regarding comparisons, it really depends on the build.
for me if you are going to use HV its better to be a thau, and shadow weaver-renegade. currently im testing HV-renegade, but im not sure how effective would this be, since HV sacrifices your crit and renegade is crit base path
might wanna check this out
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?371541-the-ultimate-debuff-build-!
I just switched from full PVP set to full HV.
Nothing scientific, but it feels like I can take down opponents faster with the HV set.
PvE is another matter altogether. Since most of the time CW's run with Steal Time and Shield, I believe this is the BiS unless you are running a pure DPS/crit build, especially for a Thaumaturge. The debuffing is phenomenal, including the potential to increase it with Plague Fire enchant. Your party will love you...
PVP Shadow Weaver is still better just for the stats it has.