I got news for all you PVP *****s out there: D&D is not and never has been a PVP game. It was always players versus environment.
You could not be more wrong. In fact, it is the opposite.
Even the very first NW game on AOL (circa 1991) had PvP. In fact, a very active PvP presence with ladders, special events, and death matches where you were honor bound to delete your character if you lost.
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hitkillMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Cryptic, I love you guys. I really do. You seem to be passionate about the games you put out.
That is why I will say this as kindly and simply as I possibly can:
Your game is going to die without new classes.
Literally every single one of my friends that I have gotten involved in this game has left because the lack of class diversity makes them feel like literal carbon cutouts of every other player.
I held my breath and waited for the update info on module 1, and you STILL haven't mentioned a new class.
Are you trying to get us to leave your game? Because it feels that way. Seriously. It really does.
Guess I'll go and do something else until you decide to change priorities a bit. I understand different folks want different things, and I'm not an entitled guy. I'll just go play something else and stop spending money here.
*sigh*
few thing to notice though
first, the game launched officially now, so we have officially 1 day of content, the previous days were testing; second thing to notice is that each of this 5 class will soon be able to choose between 3 paragons, changing some skills; the archer class was already mentioned to be coming soon, but again, the game just launch
yes, I'm also disappointing with the classes we have so far, with little customization to them... but I've played the entire beta, that means that I tested knowing that would not see any new content for quite some time... so yeah, I'm bored, but we need to wait
this even reminded me when DN global opened, after 3 days of Closed Beta, everyone max lvl complaining that the game had no content and was getting boring with no end content... don't end content when the game didn't even launch yet
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lethargytartareMember, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
I would love to see new classes and more paragon paths along with feat lines getting polished. I'm hoping to see ranger (archer and 2wf), psion, bard, and druid.
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danzlyraMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 43
Ranger/Druid/Paladin you name it will all neutralise each other in todays games due to people not being able to accept that some classes do things better than others..
Nooooo they all want plate mail wearing mages who can backstab and teleport while crafting by just pushing x..
Those people will be happy with ESO when it launches.
Everyone will be happy when ESO launches, for that matter.
-There's no class balance at all (and balance doesn't mean everyone is as good as everyone else at everything, it means everyone has a place and a point and it's not DISADVANTAGEOUS to have classes other than CW's clerics and TR's)
-There's no reason to group before 60
-The lvl 60 content takes about a week to consume (and lets not mix words - this is group content and hardly what you could call end game). End game content is difficult to create require a lot of balance/fine tuning and this company has not proven even ONCE that it cares even remotely about balance or content for that matter.
-Once you've consumed said content the only thing left to do is SPEND MONEY on enchants etc and PvP
-Gauntlygrym if meant to be "end game" is pathetic WHO did you test this with? I don't think I've seen one person who enjoys that instance
-1 talent tree per class at launch? just ONE person chime in with why this is supposedly OK?!. You realize the fallout here is with new talent trees comes more balancing - these aren't things that can just be *implemented* and not take awhile to fine tune)
This game is in a weird and confusing place. It's live and brutally unfinished, how can any of you defend it as anything aside from a cash grab? honestly open your eyes and put the DND fanbook down for a little while (or maybe pick it up and realize how far this actually *is* from anything DnD)
At the end of the day, this game is too easy to max out in. The 1-60 experience has no inherent value you just rush through it because why would you do anything else? The dungeons 1-60 are a waste of time as they just slow your progress and any loot you get from there will be out leveled in a hurry.
This game is "fun" and by fun I mean entertaining until you start taking a look under the hood and really thinking about what it is you're doing. 60 levels of dodge the red circles placed on the ground by recycled mobs (you've seen all there is to see by about level 10 - now it's just mobs with the same abilities, slightly different skin/sizes etc). Difficulty checks done by adding more adds, uninspired boss design, lazy instance design that's still exploited (I'm sorry grouping mobs up and forcing them off ledges is both ridiculously easy and awful...I know it makes you "feel powerful" but the point of trash mobs in a dungeon is to kill them, not to bypass them and trivialize most of the dungeon). Cash grabs galore, and by cash grabs I mean a mechanic that gets you 60-75% of the way there by "playing the game" and the other 40% or so needs to be made up by you spending money (getting max rank enchnats, max rank mount...bag space) the "you can buy it on the AH" won't fly here - I'm speaking to *how the items enter the game* I don't care if you can buy them afterwards for astral diamonds (which in a lot of instances has been purchased via zen exchange).
If this is what Theme park MMO's are all about I'm jumping off this stinking ship (to be correct I've left awhile ago I come here because this whole thing ...the give us money for our awful game...pisses me off). I'll take a game with a sub that has a big world with stuff to actually explore, things to do, maybe a bit of real lore (I'm not huge on RP but this 1 city melting pot stuff is lame). Everything being an instance is awful, the social/chat system in this game is awful. The end game content is non existent.
I'm just waiting for one response from one of you fanboys that's more than
a) defending this company and saying <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> like "just wait" - that's done now no more waiting
b) defending this company because "games like this are hard to make" - there are a lot of successful mmo's out there with already established permises (LIKE LOOT SYSTEMS) which have been working for years. Why try to re-invent the wheel (poorly) in so many areas rather than just going with established principles? Your ideas are worse than the ones already in games now
c) Foundry - I know people think this is amazing but it's just another way for them to be lazy; let the players design their own end game! It won't work it will never be as challenging as real end game. WoW pre WoTLK and EQ are good places to look for examples of REAL end game. I'm not saying foundry is awful and has no place but you cannot expect it to be your end game
d)THIS is DnD? When's the last time any of you played DnD and were completely out of stuff to do in 2 weeks?!
This is meant to get money out of your wallet, the sooner you realize that and move on to something worth playing. The sooner PWE and Cryptic can get on with the business of scraping this to make their next great "give us money" title. If this post sounds a little pissed off it's because I am - I've been a gamer most of my life (and I'm not 15) this trend towards games with no content and nothing to do but lots of shiny <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> for the kiddies to spend money on is a seriously bad trend. Gamers are seemingly not into *playing* their games anymore and would rather throw money around for short cuts, advantages and other things that make them feel like they're better than they actually are, do you seriously obtain satisfaction from winning in PvP simply because you've spent more money than your opponent? Maybe I'm just old fashioned and this is an antiquated notion these days, but I play games to...play games, I don't want to give you 50 bucks for my mount I want to go smash a dragon in the face and take it from him (as an example).
There's simply far too little to do and far too much to BUY in this game, this is pay 2 win at pretty much every angle; I just don't see the point, the second you get an advantage over another player by buying an item you pretty much remove my motivation to bother playing, to be clear I don't really have issue with pay for services like more exp pots or whatever...but the second you allow players to gain a competitive advantage in end game and pvp by throwing money at the game you remove all interest on my side....I'm just not interested in keeping up with the jones's in video games.
Please, please, please, please, please listen to this guy.
RPGs are simply not designed for PvP.
No MMORPG out there, not even the market leader, is improved in any way by attempting to incorporate PvP alongside PvE.
The ONLY game that has come close to doing so without totally ruining PvE is LotRO, and that is because it doesn't have genuine PvP, and so avoids the need to have strict class-balance to stop the PvP whiners QQing all day long.
Dump PvP, you'll lose maybe 15% of the player base, then work like mad on having different builds for each class, put some variety in to the game without the need to worry about PvP-balance, and then watch the people who will stick with the game for the long-haul come flooding back.
Which section of the player-base do you think is most likely to be here for the long-haul? PvPers who can only handle this type of came in 5 minute segments, or PvE-ers who will engage with the game-world for the "journey", not the "destination"?
Its a no brainer.
All The Best
Not to cause any problems or anything, but you must not of played very many MMORPG's, I've seen / played tons where PVE and PVP work together perfectly, I understand how you feel though, some games just aren't meant for PVP.~
I dare you to find a game's forum that has absolutely NO complaints about PvP.
I'll save you the trouble. You can't. Every single MMO game that has PvP also has the same problem of people complaining about balance, afk farming, spawn camping, etc.
Also pretty sure PvP has absolutely nothing to do with why EQ1 is still going. That's more along the lines of another facet of the game that Cryptic games also lack. CONTENT. PLAYABILITY.
So, to reiterate....no. PvP has no place in an MMO. It's perfectly fine in FPS and RTS games, and even stuff like LoL, because those games are all about PvP. The big problem is when you mix PvE and PvP. Balancing one totally destroys the other, unless you keep the game mechanics totally seperate, which to date, I don't think any one game has.
You also can not find games without people complaining about the PvE, be it lack of content, bosses to hard, bosses to easy, nerf this boss, buff that boss, this mob spawns to slow yada yada.....
I'm totally new to this game and I see as much complaining about PvE as I do PvP. > . <
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dragonlover982Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 27Arc User
I, and my 1980 Dungeon Master's Guide, strongly di
Really so your DM never had to adjust, think or devise challenges for your party? You just played stricktly by the book man your sessions must have been boring. What happened when you had a well developed character that out preformed the rest of the group and could nerf any of the by the book scenarios?
Oh and by the way neverwinter is based off of 4e not AD&D, and Gary Gyax had said many times interpretation and imagination were the crux of the game. That to me at least blows the play by the book line for line out of the water.
I really wish more MMO players had an IQ higher than a chihuahua
Originally Posted by iuseforum
Game is broken. Unpatch the game
-1 talent tree per class at launch? just ONE person chime in with why this is supposedly OK?!. You realize the fallout here is with new talent trees comes more balancing - these aren't things that can just be *implemented* and not take awhile to fine tune)
This game is in a weird and confusing place. It's live and brutally unfinished, how can any of you defend it as anything aside from a cash grab?
Other points aside, this is sort of the feeling I get from this game right now. Whether or not I decide to become a paying customer (or even continue playing) will be based off of how they handle this. I absolutely 100% support free games that I enjoy. I want to support this game. But I also want to feel like this game isn't this incomplete at launch. Having an entire microtransaction system set up but not letting me choose a paragon path? Not a fan. Also, no updates on this in months? Really, really not a fan.
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venger0405Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 23Arc User
edited June 2013
My 2 cents on this...
- all the whinners on we need more content, well maybe if you didn't exploit all the shortcuts you would still be running end content hmmm...
- to PW fix you fricking instances if there wasn't all the exploited short cuts people would still be working on end game content.
- to PW get rid of your timer events, these are stupid. Change it to a chance of a gold chest at the end not a 100% every 6 hours or whatever it is. People want to play when its good for them not when it's good for PW...
- to PW keep your mouth shut until you can release a new race/class, like every MMO prior as soon as people here new thing they want it now not months later. From past MMO's if you say something is going to be released 1 month is a good time frame.
- GG is so fail in so many ways I won't bother commenting.
- You want to keep people here do the following;
-you need to give a real end game raid that you can't exploit and isn't limited to being in a guild.
-couple new classes and races
-make gear/looks more unique, everyone looks the same its a joke.
-Pw needs to decide what type of game they want, they made it clear they have no clue on balance pvp/pve. Decide is this going to be PVE or PVP focused game.
- Respec's need to be free, play enjoy being creative and will play if they can be...running one spec for ever because the price is stupid to change will lose players.
- PVP/PVe gear needs to be useable only in pvp/pve. then you can help balance.
edit - for a quick fix take all T2's and CN and add insane mode (11k+) with different boss mechanics not just add spam, fix all expoits, new gear drops and this will give you a temp solutions until you get your sh*t togethere and fix all the above....
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sh4dowrunn3rMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 17Arc User
The fact they spent time and effort on PvP in a D&D based game instead of content and classes is a travesty IMO. Both my friends that got me into this game have quit already from lack of classes and story lines with no info on when more is coming.
This pretty much sums up what people in this thread want. A singleplayer game with multiplayer coop and story.
New classes and new story to play through.
This isn't the type of people you want to feed with content, since they will never play endgame only level class to 60 then level another class etc.
Try neverwinter nights 2, it has tons of great campaigns(mods) made by players.
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danzlyraMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 43
Open World PVP would be just what this game needs. That way at least I could PK the whiners and THEN watch them QQ on the forums. Much more entertaining.
Then put them on a PVP server where they are surrounded by like minded people that enjoy it. Many MMO's have separate PVP and PVE servers. There will always be a division of those who like PVE and those who like PVP.
I have absolutely no issue with those who enjoy PVP and their right to have a place for it. I do have issue with those PVPer's in open world who live to grief the non-PVPer's and have nothing better to do than camp a spawn point or use other juvenile tactics to get their rocks off picking on those that are "easy prey" who would rather be playing the game content than watching their backs.
My favorite WoW server was RP/PVP. I enjoyed PVP, thank you very much, until after a couple years of PVPing with hundreds of great players I'd had enough of the handful of idiots among the crowd that employed griefing as therapy for their inadequacies in the real world.
You may now proceed with another string of QQ's, child. Such emotes are all I need to know which people are specifically are PVPing not for the challenge and competition but for the hard-on they get from the teabag.
Edit to add: As a PVPer, it really bites imho to have separate sections of the game to play PVP instead of open world. It's like only having Thunderdome to live the dangerous life instead of having the whole world. BUT there has to be a place for those that enjoy that separate from the other gamers that don't want to play the game for the PVP but solely for the content. PVP servers and PVE servers would make both groups happier I think.
What good are classes if you are playing the same exact content over and over no matter what class you use? What made PW think the content is that good?
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jezynamalinaMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 6Arc User
What good are classes if you are playing the same exact content over and over no matter what class you use? What made PW think the content is that good?
It IS good.
...during the first time. The thought of replaying the whole content again with yet another character makes me a little bit sick. Especially that the quests of "take this, bring that, clean the loo and tie the knot" kind are nu-me-rous... and that the amount of classes is too d*mn low.
Confront what frightens or offends you. Reckless or insulting talk should never go unchallenged.
It IS good.
...during the first time. The thought of replaying the whole content again with yet another character makes me a little bit sick. Especially that the quests of "take this, bring that, clean the loo and tie the knot" kind are nu-me-rous... and that the amount of classes is too d*mn low.
I agree. WOW took years of building to get to be what it is today, and I'd bet as a whole it was what the users have asked for over the years. I'd guess like any business, there are only so many resources and a financial budget to produce and get the product out. At some point, the money runs out and the Product has to be put out there in order to at least break even. Even if it wasn't a financial issue, the game can't sit in development for ever. Especially with Elder Scrolls Online right around the corner. I think releasing this game when it did was a must. I also think that it's pretty darn complex and content loaded for a new RGP MMO. As long as it stays profitable to pay for itself and the team to keep developing it, it will continue to expand and fill out the way the customers/playerrs want it to overall.
What good are classes if you are playing the same exact content over and over no matter what class you use? What made PW think the content is that good?
That is content, by definition.
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danzlyraMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 43
I agree. WOW took years of building to get to be what it is today, and I'd bet as a whole it was what the users have asked for over the years. I'd guess like any business, there are only so many resources and a financial budget to produce and get the product out. At some point, the money runs out and the Product has to be put out there in order to at least break even. Even if it wasn't a financial issue, the game can't sit in development for ever. Especially with Elder Scrolls Online right around the corner. I think releasing this game when it did was a must. I also think that it's pretty darn complex and content loaded for a new RGP MMO. As long as it stays profitable to pay for itself and the team to keep developing it, it will continue to expand and fill out the way the customers/playerrs want it to overall.
Happy gaming.
Brannon
Yea but didn't WoW start with several starting areas. See that's what made games a bit more re-playable, when you had different starting areas so you could replay the game with a new character with at least the first 15-20 levels being unique from the other starting areas. Even EQ1 did that.
This game, as well as most that are coming out lately only give you one place to start in their linear games which means every time I make an alt to try out a different class, it's the same content over and over. It gets stale.
Are there any games in the horizon that are going to go back to having different races having unique starting experiences?
This game, as well as most that are coming out lately only give you one place to start in their linear games which means every time I make an alt to try out a different class, it's the same content over and over. It gets stale.
Guild Wars 2 has FIVE starting areas and the quests / environments change constantly.
I have learned a valuable lesson from all this; Spare the wallet until the quality of the purchase has been validated.
I regret that $200. It has gotten me, as you said, some vanity items and a title.
Do I fault myself for feeling I have been ripped off? No. No that blame goes to the developer that has yet to meet the expectations of its player base.
I wish more people would learn this lesson. We only get garbage games that are released too early because it has been proven time and time again that you can make money from doing so. The typical MMO currently releases the game with as much hype as possible and tries to make as much money as possible in the first few months. They then lose most of the player base (primarily due to being a terrible product that was nowhere near ready for release) and becomes a niche product for the next several years.
This model only works because people throw money at hype. If you do not spend money until you are sure you will like a game then you are not supporting this model. In F2P games this means spend nothing until you are sure that you enjoy the game. In pay-to-play games this means do not buy the game until you get a free trial to verify that the game is truly ready for release and is something you will enjoy long term. If games that are not ready for release start having terribly unprofitable launches then game companies will learn to start having longer betas (real betas where they don't sell you things) and will stop releasing unready products. Currently MMO launches are like buying a car knowing full well you will have to take in to the shop at least 3 times in the first week you own it. And yet MMO players keep buying these cars like it's no big deal that this is happening.
PWE's involvement was greater than you describe. The game was not even going to be an MMO until they insisted that Cryptic delay release and convert what had been developed into a full MMO.
That is interesting and it does explain why this is the smallest, most shallow MMO I have ever seen. If it was never intended to be an MMO it is more understandable that is it so small with so little to do in it.
PS: Bluebies are funny, complaining about pvp in an MMO is like complaining that theres Cheese on your ham and cheese sandwich
I actually like this analogy because I don't like cheese on most things. The reason we are complaining is because 95%+ of sandwich makers refuse to make ham sandwiches without cheese. It is not a crazy request to have a ham sandwich with no cheese and there is a huge market of people that prefer the ham sandwiches without cheese yet sandwich makers insist that every ham sandwich must have cheese because a small portion of their customer base likes it.
If you want to fight the "environment" all day long and cut down trees and such that's alright. Some people on the other hand are looking for competition, it's the way we humans are made. Just because you choose to set your goals low doesn't mean we all have to.
Just remember this - No ice in my drink and leave the pickles off the burger. ty
Some people like unbalanced competition apparently. Counterstrike and Half-Life 2 Orange Box are for people that like competition. PvP in MMO's is for people that want an unbalanced environment where their 12k gear score character can effortlessly waste 6k gear score competitors. Real competition is hard to find in an MMO because characters are rarely equal in power to one another.
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danzlyraMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 43
Frankly guys, you are talking about new classes, new content, new..., still more new and again more new.
What about fixing what is already there?
This week major bugs I encountered:
1. First time I finish epic quest karrundax during a dd event, I get to the chest, open it, and bang!
I am out of the instance without looting anything. Believe me, this is realy discouraging and frustrating.
2. During another epic karrundax, I get a dragonscale armor wich I think was for gwf. I am a cw, can't equip it. It's bound to my character, so can't auction it. I didn't even report the bug, I have been reporting too many already. Finaly, I just sold it to a merchant for 1 gold and something.
3. Today, I am in auction house looking at dragon eggs, I, by mistake, auction on a 114000AD egg, was meaning to auction on the 5AD egg, that's a mistake on my part so i'll live with it. But then, the 114000AD have been debited from my small purse and guess what my auction is gone, disappeared. I have looked in my mail, no dragon egg, I am looking in my bids, the 2 eggs of 5AD show but not the 114k. This amount represents at least one third of the AD I have earned during my whole playing time. I am wearing the full pvp set because it's reasonably good (at least now that they have fixed the 4 set bonus bugg) and mainly because it's easy and cheap to get.
So me I'd rather suggest the developpers to concentrate of fixing what does not work before you work on content.
Beside that, I'd like to tell what I think of this game.
The way to level 60 is cool and fun. It's prolly also way too fast but still, content is there and I have not gone into any buggs on quests. I have a few I can't finish but when you get to 60 it doesn't realy mather that much.
The problem is of course when you are level 60. I must then admit that I understand completely the people asking for content. What you do when you are level 60?
1. You have 10 epic dungeons that you can do over and over again. People find them so borring that they find shortcuts everywhere just to get to last boss as fast as possible. This includes running to a campfire and die. Woot that's some real fun!
2. You have a stupid skirmish where you get hmm.. Nothing! Oh yeah to be true on skirmish event you get 1000 AD and an identifying scroll!!!! Since last gamebalance patch they have made it more difficult, you think they have raised the rewards. Don't dream!
3. You can do pvp. For my last four pvps I was all the time first of my team but the teams were so bad that we lost each time. When you get into a good team and the other is good also it's quite fun but what realy happens most of the time it's either you are in a bad team or the other team is over powered. The latter being the worst because you just stand no chance. I must also add that when I say over powered I am not even mentioning the cheaters. I have personaly witnessed a flag turning red in less than a second!
To finish this comment, I must talk about what craptic (this is not a typing mistake) is looking for... money!
I have never had a problem with spending money on games of interest. That is the games I know I will be playing for some time. For neverwinter I made it to level 60 and it was fun! During the first 60 levels you frankly don't need to put any cash on this game. I am only talking about cws as that's the only class I play. But then after level 60, it's borring and you get the time to see the bugs everywhere. Experiencing the latters are frustrating and make you wish to quit. I can manage to wait for real content while slowly making my way into decent gear and wealth. But the term slow is not even close to what it is. At least as a cw it's patheticaly slow.
I always like the craft skills in games but in neverwinter it's realy the worst system I have seen. Basicaly, if you are not willing to spend cash, you are there for ages. I have not made the math but if you calculate the number of weavers you need to get to grand master tailor and multiply it by 18 hours, you are there for weeks, maybe even months of just producing weavers and upgrading them. For that I have even made a mule account. I don't plan on making more as then it would be the beginning of the end turning me from player to bot.
My last sentence will be to tell you that the best game I have ever played (haven't played that many) was the first everquest and when in two seconds, I'll hit post, i'll just check that way to see if I can find another game to play, EQ2 or EQ3 whatever they are at.
See you all in game if I don't find what I look for.
Comments
You could not be more wrong. In fact, it is the opposite.
Even the very first NW game on AOL (circa 1991) had PvP. In fact, a very active PvP presence with ladders, special events, and death matches where you were honor bound to delete your character if you lost.
few thing to notice though
first, the game launched officially now, so we have officially 1 day of content, the previous days were testing; second thing to notice is that each of this 5 class will soon be able to choose between 3 paragons, changing some skills; the archer class was already mentioned to be coming soon, but again, the game just launch
yes, I'm also disappointing with the classes we have so far, with little customization to them... but I've played the entire beta, that means that I tested knowing that would not see any new content for quite some time... so yeah, I'm bored, but we need to wait
this even reminded me when DN global opened, after 3 days of Closed Beta, everyone max lvl complaining that the game had no content and was getting boring with no end content... don't end content when the game didn't even launch yet
I, and my 1980 Dungeon Master's Guide, strongly disagree.
I (and likely Gary Gygax) salute you.
Those people will be happy with ESO when it launches.
Everyone will be happy when ESO launches, for that matter.
-There's no class balance at all (and balance doesn't mean everyone is as good as everyone else at everything, it means everyone has a place and a point and it's not DISADVANTAGEOUS to have classes other than CW's clerics and TR's)
-There's no reason to group before 60
-The lvl 60 content takes about a week to consume (and lets not mix words - this is group content and hardly what you could call end game). End game content is difficult to create require a lot of balance/fine tuning and this company has not proven even ONCE that it cares even remotely about balance or content for that matter.
-Once you've consumed said content the only thing left to do is SPEND MONEY on enchants etc and PvP
-Gauntlygrym if meant to be "end game" is pathetic WHO did you test this with? I don't think I've seen one person who enjoys that instance
-1 talent tree per class at launch? just ONE person chime in with why this is supposedly OK?!. You realize the fallout here is with new talent trees comes more balancing - these aren't things that can just be *implemented* and not take awhile to fine tune)
This game is in a weird and confusing place. It's live and brutally unfinished, how can any of you defend it as anything aside from a cash grab? honestly open your eyes and put the DND fanbook down for a little while (or maybe pick it up and realize how far this actually *is* from anything DnD)
At the end of the day, this game is too easy to max out in. The 1-60 experience has no inherent value you just rush through it because why would you do anything else? The dungeons 1-60 are a waste of time as they just slow your progress and any loot you get from there will be out leveled in a hurry.
This game is "fun" and by fun I mean entertaining until you start taking a look under the hood and really thinking about what it is you're doing. 60 levels of dodge the red circles placed on the ground by recycled mobs (you've seen all there is to see by about level 10 - now it's just mobs with the same abilities, slightly different skin/sizes etc). Difficulty checks done by adding more adds, uninspired boss design, lazy instance design that's still exploited (I'm sorry grouping mobs up and forcing them off ledges is both ridiculously easy and awful...I know it makes you "feel powerful" but the point of trash mobs in a dungeon is to kill them, not to bypass them and trivialize most of the dungeon). Cash grabs galore, and by cash grabs I mean a mechanic that gets you 60-75% of the way there by "playing the game" and the other 40% or so needs to be made up by you spending money (getting max rank enchnats, max rank mount...bag space) the "you can buy it on the AH" won't fly here - I'm speaking to *how the items enter the game* I don't care if you can buy them afterwards for astral diamonds (which in a lot of instances has been purchased via zen exchange).
If this is what Theme park MMO's are all about I'm jumping off this stinking ship (to be correct I've left awhile ago I come here because this whole thing ...the give us money for our awful game...pisses me off). I'll take a game with a sub that has a big world with stuff to actually explore, things to do, maybe a bit of real lore (I'm not huge on RP but this 1 city melting pot stuff is lame). Everything being an instance is awful, the social/chat system in this game is awful. The end game content is non existent.
I'm just waiting for one response from one of you fanboys that's more than
a) defending this company and saying <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> like "just wait" - that's done now no more waiting
b) defending this company because "games like this are hard to make" - there are a lot of successful mmo's out there with already established permises (LIKE LOOT SYSTEMS) which have been working for years. Why try to re-invent the wheel (poorly) in so many areas rather than just going with established principles? Your ideas are worse than the ones already in games now
c) Foundry - I know people think this is amazing but it's just another way for them to be lazy; let the players design their own end game! It won't work it will never be as challenging as real end game. WoW pre WoTLK and EQ are good places to look for examples of REAL end game. I'm not saying foundry is awful and has no place but you cannot expect it to be your end game
d)THIS is DnD? When's the last time any of you played DnD and were completely out of stuff to do in 2 weeks?!
This is meant to get money out of your wallet, the sooner you realize that and move on to something worth playing. The sooner PWE and Cryptic can get on with the business of scraping this to make their next great "give us money" title. If this post sounds a little pissed off it's because I am - I've been a gamer most of my life (and I'm not 15) this trend towards games with no content and nothing to do but lots of shiny <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> for the kiddies to spend money on is a seriously bad trend. Gamers are seemingly not into *playing* their games anymore and would rather throw money around for short cuts, advantages and other things that make them feel like they're better than they actually are, do you seriously obtain satisfaction from winning in PvP simply because you've spent more money than your opponent? Maybe I'm just old fashioned and this is an antiquated notion these days, but I play games to...play games, I don't want to give you 50 bucks for my mount I want to go smash a dragon in the face and take it from him (as an example).
There's simply far too little to do and far too much to BUY in this game, this is pay 2 win at pretty much every angle; I just don't see the point, the second you get an advantage over another player by buying an item you pretty much remove my motivation to bother playing, to be clear I don't really have issue with pay for services like more exp pots or whatever...but the second you allow players to gain a competitive advantage in end game and pvp by throwing money at the game you remove all interest on my side....I'm just not interested in keeping up with the jones's in video games.
You also can not find games without people complaining about the PvE, be it lack of content, bosses to hard, bosses to easy, nerf this boss, buff that boss, this mob spawns to slow yada yada.....
I'm totally new to this game and I see as much complaining about PvE as I do PvP. > . <
Other points aside, this is sort of the feeling I get from this game right now. Whether or not I decide to become a paying customer (or even continue playing) will be based off of how they handle this. I absolutely 100% support free games that I enjoy. I want to support this game. But I also want to feel like this game isn't this incomplete at launch. Having an entire microtransaction system set up but not letting me choose a paragon path? Not a fan. Also, no updates on this in months? Really, really not a fan.
- all the whinners on we need more content, well maybe if you didn't exploit all the shortcuts you would still be running end content hmmm...
- to PW fix you fricking instances if there wasn't all the exploited short cuts people would still be working on end game content.
- to PW get rid of your timer events, these are stupid. Change it to a chance of a gold chest at the end not a 100% every 6 hours or whatever it is. People want to play when its good for them not when it's good for PW...
- to PW keep your mouth shut until you can release a new race/class, like every MMO prior as soon as people here new thing they want it now not months later. From past MMO's if you say something is going to be released 1 month is a good time frame.
- GG is so fail in so many ways I won't bother commenting.
- You want to keep people here do the following;
-you need to give a real end game raid that you can't exploit and isn't limited to being in a guild.
-couple new classes and races
-make gear/looks more unique, everyone looks the same its a joke.
-Pw needs to decide what type of game they want, they made it clear they have no clue on balance pvp/pve. Decide is this going to be PVE or PVP focused game.
- Respec's need to be free, play enjoy being creative and will play if they can be...running one spec for ever because the price is stupid to change will lose players.
- PVP/PVe gear needs to be useable only in pvp/pve. then you can help balance.
edit - for a quick fix take all T2's and CN and add insane mode (11k+) with different boss mechanics not just add spam, fix all expoits, new gear drops and this will give you a temp solutions until you get your sh*t togethere and fix all the above....
This pretty much sums up what people in this thread want. A singleplayer game with multiplayer coop and story.
New classes and new story to play through.
This isn't the type of people you want to feed with content, since they will never play endgame only level class to 60 then level another class etc.
Try neverwinter nights 2, it has tons of great campaigns(mods) made by players.
Then put them on a PVP server where they are surrounded by like minded people that enjoy it. Many MMO's have separate PVP and PVE servers. There will always be a division of those who like PVE and those who like PVP.
I have absolutely no issue with those who enjoy PVP and their right to have a place for it. I do have issue with those PVPer's in open world who live to grief the non-PVPer's and have nothing better to do than camp a spawn point or use other juvenile tactics to get their rocks off picking on those that are "easy prey" who would rather be playing the game content than watching their backs.
My favorite WoW server was RP/PVP. I enjoyed PVP, thank you very much, until after a couple years of PVPing with hundreds of great players I'd had enough of the handful of idiots among the crowd that employed griefing as therapy for their inadequacies in the real world.
You may now proceed with another string of QQ's, child. Such emotes are all I need to know which people are specifically are PVPing not for the challenge and competition but for the hard-on they get from the teabag.
Edit to add: As a PVPer, it really bites imho to have separate sections of the game to play PVP instead of open world. It's like only having Thunderdome to live the dangerous life instead of having the whole world. BUT there has to be a place for those that enjoy that separate from the other gamers that don't want to play the game for the PVP but solely for the content. PVP servers and PVE servers would make both groups happier I think.
This.
What good are classes if you are playing the same exact content over and over no matter what class you use? What made PW think the content is that good?
It IS good.
...during the first time. The thought of replaying the whole content again with yet another character makes me a little bit sick. Especially that the quests of "take this, bring that, clean the loo and tie the knot" kind are nu-me-rous... and that the amount of classes is too d*mn low.
Confront what frightens or offends you. Reckless or insulting talk should never go unchallenged.
Agreed wholeheartedly.
Happy gaming.
Brannon
That is content, by definition.
Yea but didn't WoW start with several starting areas. See that's what made games a bit more re-playable, when you had different starting areas so you could replay the game with a new character with at least the first 15-20 levels being unique from the other starting areas. Even EQ1 did that.
This game, as well as most that are coming out lately only give you one place to start in their linear games which means every time I make an alt to try out a different class, it's the same content over and over. It gets stale.
Are there any games in the horizon that are going to go back to having different races having unique starting experiences?
Guild Wars 2 has FIVE starting areas and the quests / environments change constantly.
I wish more people would learn this lesson. We only get garbage games that are released too early because it has been proven time and time again that you can make money from doing so. The typical MMO currently releases the game with as much hype as possible and tries to make as much money as possible in the first few months. They then lose most of the player base (primarily due to being a terrible product that was nowhere near ready for release) and becomes a niche product for the next several years.
This model only works because people throw money at hype. If you do not spend money until you are sure you will like a game then you are not supporting this model. In F2P games this means spend nothing until you are sure that you enjoy the game. In pay-to-play games this means do not buy the game until you get a free trial to verify that the game is truly ready for release and is something you will enjoy long term. If games that are not ready for release start having terribly unprofitable launches then game companies will learn to start having longer betas (real betas where they don't sell you things) and will stop releasing unready products. Currently MMO launches are like buying a car knowing full well you will have to take in to the shop at least 3 times in the first week you own it. And yet MMO players keep buying these cars like it's no big deal that this is happening.
In that case all MMO's have PvP since it is the group versus the dungeon AI (which is what a DM is).
That is interesting and it does explain why this is the smallest, most shallow MMO I have ever seen. If it was never intended to be an MMO it is more understandable that is it so small with so little to do in it.
Props for the Mallrats reference.
I actually like this analogy because I don't like cheese on most things. The reason we are complaining is because 95%+ of sandwich makers refuse to make ham sandwiches without cheese. It is not a crazy request to have a ham sandwich with no cheese and there is a huge market of people that prefer the ham sandwiches without cheese yet sandwich makers insist that every ham sandwich must have cheese because a small portion of their customer base likes it.
Some people like unbalanced competition apparently. Counterstrike and Half-Life 2 Orange Box are for people that like competition. PvP in MMO's is for people that want an unbalanced environment where their 12k gear score character can effortlessly waste 6k gear score competitors. Real competition is hard to find in an MMO because characters are rarely equal in power to one another.
Which is why GW2 is my favorite of the recent games that has come out. They did a lot of things right and that is one of them.
What about fixing what is already there?
This week major bugs I encountered:
1. First time I finish epic quest karrundax during a dd event, I get to the chest, open it, and bang!
I am out of the instance without looting anything. Believe me, this is realy discouraging and frustrating.
2. During another epic karrundax, I get a dragonscale armor wich I think was for gwf. I am a cw, can't equip it. It's bound to my character, so can't auction it. I didn't even report the bug, I have been reporting too many already. Finaly, I just sold it to a merchant for 1 gold and something.
3. Today, I am in auction house looking at dragon eggs, I, by mistake, auction on a 114000AD egg, was meaning to auction on the 5AD egg, that's a mistake on my part so i'll live with it. But then, the 114000AD have been debited from my small purse and guess what my auction is gone, disappeared. I have looked in my mail, no dragon egg, I am looking in my bids, the 2 eggs of 5AD show but not the 114k. This amount represents at least one third of the AD I have earned during my whole playing time. I am wearing the full pvp set because it's reasonably good (at least now that they have fixed the 4 set bonus bugg) and mainly because it's easy and cheap to get.
So me I'd rather suggest the developpers to concentrate of fixing what does not work before you work on content.
Beside that, I'd like to tell what I think of this game.
The way to level 60 is cool and fun. It's prolly also way too fast but still, content is there and I have not gone into any buggs on quests. I have a few I can't finish but when you get to 60 it doesn't realy mather that much.
The problem is of course when you are level 60. I must then admit that I understand completely the people asking for content. What you do when you are level 60?
1. You have 10 epic dungeons that you can do over and over again. People find them so borring that they find shortcuts everywhere just to get to last boss as fast as possible. This includes running to a campfire and die. Woot that's some real fun!
2. You have a stupid skirmish where you get hmm.. Nothing! Oh yeah to be true on skirmish event you get 1000 AD and an identifying scroll!!!! Since last gamebalance patch they have made it more difficult, you think they have raised the rewards. Don't dream!
3. You can do pvp. For my last four pvps I was all the time first of my team but the teams were so bad that we lost each time. When you get into a good team and the other is good also it's quite fun but what realy happens most of the time it's either you are in a bad team or the other team is over powered. The latter being the worst because you just stand no chance. I must also add that when I say over powered I am not even mentioning the cheaters. I have personaly witnessed a flag turning red in less than a second!
To finish this comment, I must talk about what craptic (this is not a typing mistake) is looking for... money!
I have never had a problem with spending money on games of interest. That is the games I know I will be playing for some time. For neverwinter I made it to level 60 and it was fun! During the first 60 levels you frankly don't need to put any cash on this game. I am only talking about cws as that's the only class I play. But then after level 60, it's borring and you get the time to see the bugs everywhere. Experiencing the latters are frustrating and make you wish to quit. I can manage to wait for real content while slowly making my way into decent gear and wealth. But the term slow is not even close to what it is. At least as a cw it's patheticaly slow.
I always like the craft skills in games but in neverwinter it's realy the worst system I have seen. Basicaly, if you are not willing to spend cash, you are there for ages. I have not made the math but if you calculate the number of weavers you need to get to grand master tailor and multiply it by 18 hours, you are there for weeks, maybe even months of just producing weavers and upgrading them. For that I have even made a mule account. I don't plan on making more as then it would be the beginning of the end turning me from player to bot.
My last sentence will be to tell you that the best game I have ever played (haven't played that many) was the first everquest and when in two seconds, I'll hit post, i'll just check that way to see if I can find another game to play, EQ2 or EQ3 whatever they are at.
See you all in game if I don't find what I look for.