I want the following changes to happend to ensure balance in the game and FOR YOU DENIALISTS(PEOPLE WHO DENY BEING TO OVERPOWERED WITH 0 IQ) You got your Threat buff and guard fix so everything is fine. EXCEPT For one thing that is your damage output in pve and pvp, you guys are way to overpowered and its not fun facing 2-3 GF in the enemy team knowing you can't kill anyone of them and it takes your whole team 23988129491492 years to down them.
Follow changing i want to happend:
Nerf all damage(AND CONQUEROR DAMAGE FEAT) to have a 50% nerf downwards damage wise.
You cannot compare a pure damage class to a ****ing tank class, they said there won't be tank classes in D&D but there is now and so its time to pay back for wat you got latest patch.
Guardian fighters were monsters pre-patch in pvp but in pve they were sucky i can understand but it gets annoying when u get buffed up being demi-gods in pvp(even better after patch) and in pve you pump out as much dmg as rogues does and its ****ing HAMSTER that a tank class can do the same amount of damage output as a "PURE" damage class can. Its sickening really fix this and i will stay.
Im not a rogue and ****ing dont compare a dps class to a tank class please mr.americano
Rogues still outdps us by far against a single target, and that's what matters.
Or do you rather have the rogue with low defense deal with the horde of adds while the tank with low damage turtles the boss in a neverending fight?
I want the following changes to happend to ensure balance in the game and FOR YOU DENIALISTS(PEOPLE WHO DENY BEING TO OVERPOWERED WITH 0 IQ) You got your Threat buff and guard fix so everything is fine. EXCEPT For one thing that is your damage output in pve and pvp, you guys are way to overpowered and its not fun facing 2-3 GF in the enemy team knowing you can't kill anyone of them and it takes your whole team 23988129491492 years to down them.
Follow changing i want to happend:
Nerf all damage(AND CONQUEROR DAMAGE FEAT) to have a 50% nerf downwards damage wise.
You cannot compare a pure damage class to a ****ing tank class, they said there won't be tank classes in D&D but there is now and so its time to pay back for wat you got latest patch.
Guardian fighters were monsters pre-patch in pvp but in pve they were sucky i can understand but it gets annoying when u get buffed up being demi-gods in pvp(even better after patch) and in pve you pump out as much dmg as rogues does and its ****ing HAMSTER that a tank class can do the same amount of damage output as a "PURE" damage class can. Its sickening really fix this and i will stay.
elpaleniozord01Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 28Arc User
edited June 2013
Tanks damage issue lies in bad scaling system and tenebrous enchantment stacking.
Atm almost all damage comes from weapon damage while benefit from power isnt even perceptible. This allow tanks to stack defensive stats while still doing damage comparable with other classes.
On the other hand tenebrous enchants are simply overpowered, even on low hp characters they outweigh other enchants by FAR, when you put it on hp stacked GF/GWF its borderline insane.
GFs are fine. TRs have highest single target damage and all other classes have the potential to output decent dps. Working as intended. Go to WoW if you want a classic trilogy.
People keep using the "tank" excuse as to why GF should not do the same dmg as other classes in PvP. There is no TANK as was defined in earlier MMOs. They are Fighters. Melee Fighters.
No one is going to turtle/bunker spec in PvP in its current state, there's simply little to no reason for it. Dead players don't cap.
Also all GF do dmg because they're all speced EXACTLY the same way. Tact and Prot trees are a joke.
Every class in this game is capable of 2-3 shots and every class has survivability in their own manner. I personally like it, its comes down to one mistake, one slip up and you die.
The passive mitigation GF has isn't nearly as useful as other classes' active survivability. I'd personally prefer 80' range and blinkx4 or unstoppable every 3 sec + sprint over defense for active survival. Guard, the GF active survivability is for countering control effects, not so much on dmg. It's for the most part a fair trade off in comparison to their max range and mobility.
too much crying over here, yes i do tons of damage in PvE, but that's only because of my PFire/arpen and CLEAVE. TRs can still dish out insane damage meter numbers and they cant even do decent AoE. My TR does 20-30k Crit Duelists Flurry on bosses per cycle, my fully geared GF with 22% arpen only does around 1.3k non crit cleave 1.8k when the target has 3 stacks of PF 2.2k if debuffed with tide of iron around 2.5k when wrathful kicks in. If you somehow crit the whole cycle of cleave (22% crit) you get around 12k damage, yes way weaker than 1 cycle of duelists but It does AoE. That's why the damage is bloated. Hell, fully gear a GWF with the same equips that I have, he will prolly dish out more in the paingiver aspect. Even a damage-geared CW (insane) can out dps me just because of awesome aoe damage AND single target damage.
PvP, non crit non challenged lunging does about 5-6k damage which is actually quite weak when compared with what other classes can dish out. Only thing that can insta kill people in pvp is that knight's challenge cheese, now this is probably what you are crying about, when you get hit by it, either 1. you are too focused on someone which made you unaware of the approaching GF 2. you fail to see the obvious red line that has suddenly connected to your character (dodge, blink, stealth when you see this). It's easily counterable if you are aware of the GF, people are forgetting that you also do x2 damage on the GF while that skill is active. I know, i have a gf, and i also know the counters bec those are the same things that i do when using my other toons. The stunlock is perfect if the gf runs with an organized group, but alone? If you are a decent pvp player you cant get killed with a GF's stunlock. You can even easily turn things around when he has exhausted his skills.
GWF are much much tankier when talking about taking direct damage compared to GFs, the only thing GFs have is the block which can go down like wet paper if you play against it smartly. GFs also dont have movement skills which makes them very much vulnerable against 2on1 situations. Why would you even go 1on1 against a GF? He'll just stunlock you which forces you to retreat. Same thing when going 1on1 vs a TR (why the heck would you even do that?
as a GF i feel like the direct counter to the class are CWs, only time you can kill a CW if he's dumb and manages to get cheesed all the time. A decent CW just dodges the initial barrage then turns the whole thing around with a simple choke.
GWFs are (for me) food for GFs bec of the lack of dodge. TRs are a 50-50 match, depends on who gets to disable first.
GFs shine in group fights, hard to beat a point defense duo of a GF and a DC.
snowballoMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited June 2013
OP
Every class except cleric can cc lock down and kill someone in a full rotation, stop crying already.
Every class has a way to avoid being cc locked by a GF, after which the GF has no cc, hits like a wet noodle (if it can even hit you as it's completely reliant on its skills unless you'r bad enough to stand still in cleave) and is freekishly slow.
Just because you don't know when to use which ability/dodge doesn't mean the class needs a nerf.
Case of l2p
/case closed
EDIT: And stop spamming the forum with the same thread over and over.
Snow's Melee Arena:NW-DMT7STJ9E Combat arena. Adjustable challenge.
Difficulty: Adjustable easy - very hard
Duration: Adjustable 1 - 25min
OP
Every class except cleric can cc lock down and kill someone in a full rotation, stop crying already.
Every class has a way to avoid being cc locked by a GF, after which the GF has no cc, hits like a wet noodle (if it can even hit you as it's completely reliant on its skills unless you'r bad enough to stand still in cleave) and is freekishly slow.
Just because you don't know when to use which ability/dodge doesn't mean the class needs a nerf.
Case of l2p
/case closed
EDIT: And stop spamming the forum with the same thread over and over.
tr cannot cc lock down, theres no cc a tr can use that makes u unable to move(it only makes unable to cast and attack u can still run away)
and from what i read u gfs dont want nerf because u know u are op and dont what that to end
tankiest class shouldnt be able to stun lock AND 3 shoot anyone u can have 2 of those 3 at most(tankiest, stunlock, 3 shoot) to be balanced, or i want my "insert any class here" to excel in everything too, make trs have permanent cc imunity and make smoke a real stun, make cw super tank, and make cleric 3 shoot ppl
And that's why GF's can't stun at all, they only have a few knockbacks. You seem to be confusing a GF with a CW or a TR.
lol u seem to be not me they have 2x knock down(wich is a harder cc then stun) + griffons wrath(3x1sec stun)
trs have no stun or knock down only silence/disarm(daze)
u seem to be confusing trs for gfs
EDIT: the problem is that u cant beat a 5 full geared gf party in pvp, usually the side with more full geared gfs wins.
so whats the point in having other classs(pvpwise)?
lets just all play our gfs and rename pvp domination to gf domination
Oh yes, I forgot about griffon's wrath.
But you can't slot all three anyway, you need Knight's Challenge if you want to 3 shot anyone on a GF. Or fight someone in green gear.
Oh yes, I forgot about griffon's wrath.
But you can't slot all three anyway, you need Knight's Challenge if you want to 3 shot anyone on a GF. Or fight someone in green gear.
even if u can only have 2 cc skills + 3shoot, what do u suppose a squishy class should have?
from my pov if the tankiest class can cc lock + 3 shoot, a squshy melee class should 1 shoot, or cc lock + 2shoot (wihtout dailies, cause we arent counting them for gfs also) since well u are tank they are not.
and we all know how fun it was trs 1 shootin ppl(and that was with daily, not encounter)
so unless u agree all other classes should be buffed gfs should be nerfed.
and this is all on pvp cause for pve they are well balanced imo.
gfs dont even need damage to be usefull in pve, they could do 0 dmage and still be needed if they agro ads like no other
and the current paragon path for gfs(iron vanguard) its the most defensive of all(in dnd) imagine what will happen when a real offensive paragon path arrives lololololol we should rename the game to neverwin (vs gfs)
No, not even close, because something beats your rogue doesn't make it automatically OP, rogue is pretty much only thing GWF can beat easily. They can also beat clerics now, but who can't?
No, they are not, they are a mix of control, dps and sturdiness, you spec it to be good at 2 out of 3 but not excelling at it.
They are talking about GF's NOT GWF's you HAMSTER.
Currently any class with good gear can kill other classes in a few hits. I think a DC is the obvious exception though. Tanky or not, guardians die in seconds, just like all the others.
And it shows on the forum. There are calls to nerf all the classes, the way cryptic actually listens to feedback, they might just do it too.
Griffon's Wrath? in PvP?
If you get hit you were not paying attention if you cant dodge between strikes I feel really sorry for you.
EVERY "good" GF slots Lunging, Bull Rush and Frontline. Lower Dmg GF slot Knight's challenge at times. That is all.
You guys got you're cry cry fingers pointed in the wrong direction, go ahead and cry nerf GF dmg.
I'll be playin my GWF, they are leagues ahead in dmg and survivability since patch.
0
snowballoMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
tr cannot cc lock down, theres no cc a tr can use that makes u unable to move(it only makes unable to cast and attack u can still run away)
and from what i read u gfs dont want nerf because u know u are op and dont what that to end
tankiest class shouldnt be able to stun lock AND 3 shoot anyone u can have 2 of those 3 at most(tankiest, stunlock, 3 shoot) to be balanced, or i want my "insert any class here" to excel in everything too, make trs have permanent cc imunity and make smoke a real stun, make cw super tank, and make cleric 3 shoot ppl
TR has all the cc/cc immunity they need.
TR can shrug off all GF cc with well timed dodge or impossible to catch or a proper daze = render the GF useless for that time being.
My point is, every class except DC, have the tools they need to render the other one useless while killing them off.
1v1 PvP in this game when equally geared isn't as much about imbalance, as it is about who has most skills off cooldown and lands them.
AKA, bad players will fail their dodges/skills and come crying on the forum.
As for the insanely OP bladiebladieblah stories.
The only broken thing out there in pvp is Tenebrous + Plaguefire combination, making any class that stacked greater Tenebrous do 5-8k frontloaded dmg on top of their skill right off the start, which is not reduced by anything.
Tenebrous stack does work extra well on GF indeed, but it's not something GF should be nerfed for, Tenebrous is something that should not be in pvp instead.
Snow's Melee Arena:NW-DMT7STJ9E Combat arena. Adjustable challenge.
Difficulty: Adjustable easy - very hard
Duration: Adjustable 1 - 25min
Griffon's Wrath? in PvP?
If you get hit you were not paying attention if you cant dodge between strikes I feel really sorry for you.
EVERY "good" GF slots Lunging, Bull Rush and Frontline. Lower Dmg GF slot Knight's challenge at times. That is all.
You guys got you're cry cry fingers pointed in the wrong direction, go ahead and cry nerf GF dmg.
I'll be playin my GWF, they are leagues ahead in dmg and survivability since patch.
Actually, you should always use knight's challenge, it garantees that you oneshot people without any crits. To one shot people with the frontline setup you need to pretty much triple crit (maybe this changes once you have full tenebrous rank 3 enchants).
Knight's challenge doubles damage (taken and dealt), if you need 3 crits without it, you need 1.5 crits with it. I've never ever seen a GF one shot anyone, with or without crit.
Knight's Challenge is for ambush single target GF play - see target, Knights Challenge, attack and hope you kill them. Many times they get out of range or I get CC'ed before I can hit them, and then KC is used against me. Not sure how it can one-shot a full-hp character without critting. I run high arpen and crit and never one shot someone with it. Perhaps running 6 Greater Tenes against a weak defense, low hp character could do it, but I wouldn't count on it.
IMO Frontline Assault is more versatile and allows you to handle more than one opponent at a time. It's also got a lower cooldown and can be used by itself; KC requires you to have your other encounter abilities available, otherwise it's wasted until then.
If it was possible to balance PVP and not PVE I'd agree. I love my GF. It's overall damage unless geared with Stalwarts or Timeless is sub par. The fact that we get high burst damage is alllllll we get for PVE so the fact that it trickles over to PVP and makes poorly tactical people cry is your problem. I've been handled and I mean handled by rogues, GWF's and Wizards in PVP no problem. True, when I face a guy who is clueless I can murder them, but again that is your problem. GF's get no love in T2 unless they are geared out the ***. So please, don't try and get this class nerfed even more.
Comments
I want the following changes to happend to ensure balance in the game and FOR YOU DENIALISTS(PEOPLE WHO DENY BEING TO OVERPOWERED WITH 0 IQ) You got your Threat buff and guard fix so everything is fine. EXCEPT For one thing that is your damage output in pve and pvp, you guys are way to overpowered and its not fun facing 2-3 GF in the enemy team knowing you can't kill anyone of them and it takes your whole team 23988129491492 years to down them.
Follow changing i want to happend:
Nerf all damage(AND CONQUEROR DAMAGE FEAT) to have a 50% nerf downwards damage wise.
You cannot compare a pure damage class to a ****ing tank class, they said there won't be tank classes in D&D but there is now and so its time to pay back for wat you got latest patch.
Guardian fighters were monsters pre-patch in pvp but in pve they were sucky i can understand but it gets annoying when u get buffed up being demi-gods in pvp(even better after patch) and in pve you pump out as much dmg as rogues does and its ****ing HAMSTER that a tank class can do the same amount of damage output as a "PURE" damage class can. Its sickening really fix this and i will stay.
fixed for you
Im not a rogue and ****ing dont compare a dps class to a tank class please mr.americano
Rogues still outdps us by far against a single target, and that's what matters.
Or do you rather have the rogue with low defense deal with the horde of adds while the tank with low damage turtles the boss in a neverending fight?
Atm almost all damage comes from weapon damage while benefit from power isnt even perceptible. This allow tanks to stack defensive stats while still doing damage comparable with other classes.
On the other hand tenebrous enchants are simply overpowered, even on low hp characters they outweigh other enchants by FAR, when you put it on hp stacked GF/GWF its borderline insane.
No one is going to turtle/bunker spec in PvP in its current state, there's simply little to no reason for it. Dead players don't cap.
Also all GF do dmg because they're all speced EXACTLY the same way. Tact and Prot trees are a joke.
Every class in this game is capable of 2-3 shots and every class has survivability in their own manner. I personally like it, its comes down to one mistake, one slip up and you die.
The passive mitigation GF has isn't nearly as useful as other classes' active survivability. I'd personally prefer 80' range and blinkx4 or unstoppable every 3 sec + sprint over defense for active survival. Guard, the GF active survivability is for countering control effects, not so much on dmg. It's for the most part a fair trade off in comparison to their max range and mobility.
PvP, non crit non challenged lunging does about 5-6k damage which is actually quite weak when compared with what other classes can dish out. Only thing that can insta kill people in pvp is that knight's challenge cheese, now this is probably what you are crying about, when you get hit by it, either 1. you are too focused on someone which made you unaware of the approaching GF 2. you fail to see the obvious red line that has suddenly connected to your character (dodge, blink, stealth when you see this). It's easily counterable if you are aware of the GF, people are forgetting that you also do x2 damage on the GF while that skill is active. I know, i have a gf, and i also know the counters bec those are the same things that i do when using my other toons. The stunlock is perfect if the gf runs with an organized group, but alone? If you are a decent pvp player you cant get killed with a GF's stunlock. You can even easily turn things around when he has exhausted his skills.
GWF are much much tankier when talking about taking direct damage compared to GFs, the only thing GFs have is the block which can go down like wet paper if you play against it smartly. GFs also dont have movement skills which makes them very much vulnerable against 2on1 situations. Why would you even go 1on1 against a GF? He'll just stunlock you which forces you to retreat. Same thing when going 1on1 vs a TR (why the heck would you even do that?
as a GF i feel like the direct counter to the class are CWs, only time you can kill a CW if he's dumb and manages to get cheesed all the time. A decent CW just dodges the initial barrage then turns the whole thing around with a simple choke.
GWFs are (for me) food for GFs bec of the lack of dodge. TRs are a 50-50 match, depends on who gets to disable first.
GFs shine in group fights, hard to beat a point defense duo of a GF and a DC.
Include Ability Score Rolling When Respec-ing (Click and Comment to Show Support)
like in dragon nest and gw2, some skills behave differently in pvp only
Include Ability Score Rolling When Respec-ing (Click and Comment to Show Support)
Every class except cleric can cc lock down and kill someone in a full rotation, stop crying already.
Every class has a way to avoid being cc locked by a GF, after which the GF has no cc, hits like a wet noodle (if it can even hit you as it's completely reliant on its skills unless you'r bad enough to stand still in cleave) and is freekishly slow.
Just because you don't know when to use which ability/dodge doesn't mean the class needs a nerf.
Case of l2p
/case closed
EDIT: And stop spamming the forum with the same thread over and over.
Combat arena. Adjustable challenge.
Difficulty: Adjustable easy - very hard
Duration: Adjustable 1 - 25min
tr cannot cc lock down, theres no cc a tr can use that makes u unable to move(it only makes unable to cast and attack u can still run away)
and from what i read u gfs dont want nerf because u know u are op and dont what that to end
tankiest class shouldnt be able to stun lock AND 3 shoot anyone u can have 2 of those 3 at most(tankiest, stunlock, 3 shoot) to be balanced, or i want my "insert any class here" to excel in everything too, make trs have permanent cc imunity and make smoke a real stun, make cw super tank, and make cleric 3 shoot ppl
trs have no stun or knock down only silence/disarm(daze)
u seem to be confusing trs for gfs
EDIT: the problem is that u cant beat a 5 full geared gf party in pvp, usually the side with more full geared gfs wins.
so whats the point in having other classs(pvpwise)?
lets just all play our gfs and rename pvp domination to gf domination
But you can't slot all three anyway, you need Knight's Challenge if you want to 3 shot anyone on a GF. Or fight someone in green gear.
from my pov if the tankiest class can cc lock + 3 shoot, a squshy melee class should 1 shoot, or cc lock + 2shoot (wihtout dailies, cause we arent counting them for gfs also) since well u are tank they are not.
and we all know how fun it was trs 1 shootin ppl(and that was with daily, not encounter)
so unless u agree all other classes should be buffed gfs should be nerfed.
gfs dont even need damage to be usefull in pve, they could do 0 dmage and still be needed if they agro ads like no other
They are talking about GF's NOT GWF's you HAMSTER.
And it shows on the forum. There are calls to nerf all the classes, the way cryptic actually listens to feedback, they might just do it too.
If you get hit you were not paying attention if you cant dodge between strikes I feel really sorry for you.
EVERY "good" GF slots Lunging, Bull Rush and Frontline. Lower Dmg GF slot Knight's challenge at times. That is all.
You guys got you're cry cry fingers pointed in the wrong direction, go ahead and cry nerf GF dmg.
I'll be playin my GWF, they are leagues ahead in dmg and survivability since patch.
TR has all the cc/cc immunity they need.
TR can shrug off all GF cc with well timed dodge or impossible to catch or a proper daze = render the GF useless for that time being.
My point is, every class except DC, have the tools they need to render the other one useless while killing them off.
1v1 PvP in this game when equally geared isn't as much about imbalance, as it is about who has most skills off cooldown and lands them.
AKA, bad players will fail their dodges/skills and come crying on the forum.
As for the insanely OP bladiebladieblah stories.
The only broken thing out there in pvp is Tenebrous + Plaguefire combination, making any class that stacked greater Tenebrous do 5-8k frontloaded dmg on top of their skill right off the start, which is not reduced by anything.
Tenebrous stack does work extra well on GF indeed, but it's not something GF should be nerfed for, Tenebrous is something that should not be in pvp instead.
Combat arena. Adjustable challenge.
Difficulty: Adjustable easy - very hard
Duration: Adjustable 1 - 25min
IMO Frontline Assault is more versatile and allows you to handle more than one opponent at a time. It's also got a lower cooldown and can be used by itself; KC requires you to have your other encounter abilities available, otherwise it's wasted until then.