No, not even close, because something beats your rogue doesn't make it automatically OP, rogue is pretty much only thing GWF can beat easily. They can also beat clerics now, but who can't?
Well Cryptic uve done a great job giving them great threat control but u failed on one thing. That is they become extremely more powerful after patch and pre-patch they were awesome in pvp with stalwart set. So do me a favor nerf their Rogue like dmg because they do annoying alot of damage and they can block any of ours power moves which other classes cant.
Wat they have right now:
Mobility
Survibility
Rogue-like-godlike-damage
Currently the best pvp class
They are a tank class and shouldn't be able to do this
TLDR I got beat by someone, everyone/everything else should change rather than me learn how to play.
rofl. U dont play a GF ? My friend have one, with T2 set and he has 6k power - WITH TANK SET, rofl. Hes tried T1 set for DMG and got with stacked second set bonus over 12k power. rofl. GF are OP. They need little balance for PvP and PvE.
rofl... you know. rofl. I don't play GF. rofl. but I killed so many as a CW. ROFL. he can have 6000k rofl power it doesn't matter because rofl its percentage base rofl and everything above rofl 4000 is just plainly waste. rofl. 1% gain or something. rofl. rofl. rofl. rofl
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cichardMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited June 2013
in group fights a GF will get wrecked... cw sneak up behind them and we are done.
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willsommersMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 103
edited June 2013
but I killed so many as a CW
The class that really needs nerfing. TR damage in AOE plus constant CC? Come on. Broken. At least a 60% damage reduction across the board.
GFs have always been OP in PvP... if the player is competent and has great gear and the right spec. They need Timeless Hero (Stalwart Bulwark works too, but Timeless is much better for PvP) 4 piece, Tenebrous enchants, and spec into Conqueror tree. They'll block all of your main attacks, then use Frontline Surge into Bullrush into Knight's Challenge and basically 3-shot you while you're knocked back and on the ground.
I see... So the problem are not the GF... Its the Tenebrous enchants...
I've seen it every freaking game that I have played. PVP whinners cry and cry and the next thing you know the whole game is F@@ked up for everyone. If you think a class is OPed then go play that class.:mad:
Maybe every class should get an OP exploit/build. If you figure you out you're golden that's why there's hundred of thousands of soccer players but none of them can be Lionell Messi. So make an exploit for every class and let everyone try and figure it out.
A tanks damage should be huge burst. I have a suggestion. Don't stand in front of it ? All GF ability are straight line. Front line surge great ability hard to use all you have to do is step 3 yards left or right. Maybe strafe lol. Dodge or blink the charge ? Sigh. It really comes down to playing.
I am a GF yes I do great burst. Never have a beat a enemy that I couldn't get to though.
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sasheriaMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 1Arc User
edited June 2013
It is interesting that some complain that GF is weak, now it is too powerful?
When it comes to PvP, it is REALLY hard to "balance" between the classes. Heck, even the fable WoW still tweaking. I have a feeling it will take years to come to any sort of balance. Adding a new class? heck that will throw the balance off even more.
rescorlaMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 24Arc User
edited June 2013
Dear Devs,
Please nerf Rock. They are way OP in PVP.
Paper is balanced just fine.
Thanks
Scissors
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dahiorusMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 3Arc User
edited June 2013
They are OP , Are for those saying its not , u guys dont know nothing about classes , Guardian fighter should be a tank class not a dps class , and rogues should be like rogues in World of Warcraft instead of a class that makes instakills , there are not such a balance yet , The patch its a joke and the
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bostishMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
A tanks damage should be huge burst. I have a suggestion. Don't stand in front of it ? All GF ability are straight line. Front line surge great ability hard to use all you have to do is step 3 yards left or right. Maybe strafe lol. Dodge or blink the charge ? Sigh. It really comes down to playing.
I am a GF yes I do great burst. Never have a beat a enemy that I couldn't get to though.
This. I don't play GF, however, I know in PvP I must gain combat advantage and get behind them. If there is two, one suckers the blocks the other gets the kill.
The elusive "balance" that the PVP community seeks is unattainable. It was stated quite well in Rescorla's post above;
Dear Devs,
Please nerf Rock. They are way OP in PVP.
Paper is balanced just fine.
Thanks
Scissors
Please embrace this simple truth and realize that for any diversity to exist in this, or any game, you must work as a team leveraging each individual class talents.
Devs,
Please feel free to make fighters different from wizards. Pick a vision for each class and then leave them alone. Focus on making the intended skills, feats, etc work properly and ignore all demands for balance. It is truly unachievable and quite unnecessary.
The elusive "balance" that the PVP community seeks is unattainable. It was stated quite well in Rescorla's post above;
Dear Devs,
Please nerf Rock. They are way OP in PVP.
Paper is balanced just fine.
Thanks
Scissors
Please embrace this simple truth and realize that for any diversity to exist in this, or any game, you must work as a team leveraging each individual class talents.
Devs,
Please feel free to make fighters different from wizards. Pick a vision for each class and then leave them alone. Focus on making the intended skills, feats, etc work properly and ignore all demands for balance. It is truly unachievable and quite unnecessary.
With 50 % dmg resist plus standing inside astral shield I can still be 2-3-hit, but yes they aren't OP. Oh and as a cleric if I use the most damaging ability in the cleric arsenal.. daily hammer thingy with 16k damage on it - what happens it gets shrugged off as nothing because cleric has no armor penetration I guess. Some GF's take ok dmg from it but others take so little it isn't noticable (and no I'm not talking during their self-buff).
They can also chain knock you to ground/off astral shield... but most don't bother knocking you outside AS since there is no need for it anyway.
Above poster is totally right actually.. make classes different from each other. He just fails at logic , since that would mean GF is tank and would have godly defense and cleric like offense . Taunts would have to work in pvp ofc, somehow.
My GF was strong in lvl 60 pre-patch. With my gear and spec im sitting at 14000 gearscore and I can take out 2-3 guys in a match. I have been playing gf since closed beta and I know how to play my class I have also worked on tweaking him and discussing my class with others who play gf. The point is I don't just roll in and faceroll the buttons I chose my targets and I work to time my skills. But crying the only standard part of games these days.
Above poster is totally right actually.. make classes different from each other. He just fails at logic , since that would mean GF is tank and would have godly defense and cleric like offense . Taunts would have to work in pvp ofc, somehow.
Just to clarify; Neither you or I can fail at logic. Logic is a noun, like any other tool. You cannot fail at "car" or "hammer". It is, however, possible to fail at making a logical argument, as you have so easily demonstrated. When you make a stawman assumption that a GF must be played in a specific manner. "Taunts would have to work in pvp ofc, somehow".
Please read my post again. The point is exclusive your rebuttle. My point is that it is up to us to find a way to utilize the class tools that the developers present us with to be successful. My argument is simply that there is no such thing as balance. That is the entire point of diversity in team games. Constantly changing the rules/capabilities/physics in any game renders them impotent and lacking in flavor, challenge and real sense of achievment.
This is why class balance complaining in PVP games sucks. PVP battles arent won on the in game battlefiend. They are won by those who complain on the forums that everything but their class is OP and needs a nerf.
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sh4dowrunn3rMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 17Arc User
Just to clarify; Neither you or I can fail at logic. Logic is a noun, like any other tool. You cannot fail at "car" or "hammer". It is, however, possible to fail at making a logical argument, as you have so easily demonstrated. When you make a stawman assumption that a GF must be played in a specific manner. "Taunts would have to work in pvp ofc, somehow".
Please read my post again. The point is exclusive your rebuttle. My point is that it is up to us to find a way to utilize the class tools that the developers present us with to be successful. My argument is simply that there is no such thing as balance. That is the entire point of diversity in team games. Constantly changing the rules/capabilities/physics in any game renders them impotent and lacking in flavor, challenge and real sense of achievment.
1st part: You understand what people are saying, you just choose to try to belittle them to feel superior to them. I didn't mean anything bad when I said you fail at logic (yes I'll write it like this again ), just you contradict yourself when you say classes are supposed to be diverse and not balanced - and to leave them as they are. With continual balancing equaling identical classes to you - because only then they are really balanced. (that's how I understand you)
With that kind of thinking we can have God class, it's diverse and unbalanced as you wish. It can kill anything with 1 word. And a small worm class... it can ... move from one side of neverwinter to the other in a year or so. (ofc everyone would play God but hey we have diverse classes , we are happy)
How is GF diverse atm... it does same thing as other classes. The only diverse part is being able to keep aggro in pve and that is what should be expanded into pvp as well. (immunity to cc in pvp via buff is diverse also and I am all for gf keeping it, fits its defensive(imo) role) As for excessive damage - it steals diversity from TR.
I am for real diversity... not all classes doing everything with small differences.
My goal enjoyable pve and pvp.
Your goal: enjoyable single player portion of game, unplayable MMO
i dont know what u guys think but imo a gf shouldnt be able to 3 shoot anyone. the only classes that should be able to do that are trs and maybe cws. a gf should be a defensive monster with some dps and burst imo, but not at tr level.
maybe its because of the tenebrous enchants and stalwart bulwark set bonus but i've played vs many gfs that just camp the point near ur base and 3 shoot anyone that comes until at least 3 ppl come, and he still almost always kills someone 1v3.
My opinion is that the strongest defensive class cant do so much damage, why would i ever want a dc in pvp? id rather have 2 gfs always
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warfluxMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited June 2013
I dunno about pvp but i'm hardly op in pve. All the pvpers are going to ruin the game with their constant crying.
and i know some gf spec full offense and should have more damage as such but still should never be able to have dps or burst comparable to full offense spec classes that have not a strong defense
and theres still the cc issue, gfs being able to cc someone for 5+ sec(bulls rush + frontline surge+ griffons wrath ) burst for at least 75% of ur hp and tank like no other is a little bit too much imo
in pve gfs should be about ad control and tanking, not damage imo, maybe u dont feel op but from a cw point of view, u are a vital member on a party. bringing balance to pve shouldnt be all about damage imo, even a tr should bring way more utility and less damage in pve, the problem with pve is that dungeons offer no other challenge but tank and out dps, the only variant to that is prob the cw knock off combo
meh, gfs are alright, that's how they were built, the best stun locking class in pvp. GFs are well rounded though, we can spot tank for point defense/disruption and we can also choose to roam-kill with our stun locks or that 50-50 gamble cheese (both of which doesnt always work unlike CW and TR combos). GFs are the only class with no crit chance from ability scores, if we had this, it will be OP. Right now we're just alright, depends on what you do. When dressed well anyway, all classes tend to be OP.
quite frankly in pvp, if you have tenebs you win, it gets more out of hand if theyre being brought by TRs. Problem in PvP is not about GF dominance/flexibilty or other class' dominance. It's about getting those 7 tenebs, it will win for you.
also the huge damage spikes from GFs come from knight's challenge, if more people knew what it does it would be easy to counter especially for TRs and CWs. I've used it quite a lot in the past in pvp, people tend to run away when they see that red line. Thing is the GF also takes double damage from you, it's a blatant gamble which works awesome when the target is busy elsewhere. In a 1on1 sit a TR should stealth and hit the GF while KC is still on, you might even kill him with a lashing blade and a well timed smoke. CWs all you have to do is to spam your dodge till he uses his other 2 encounters which will most likely have lunging as a gap closer. Choke him then let him taste his own x2 damage. People just need to study classes more, learn how to properly counter, work with the team and stop crying.
with the frontline/bull/griff stun lock, it's not even that hard to counter. not unless the FLsurge is feated and you got hit by it, you're gonna die if you're not a fighter class. GWFs can do the same stunlock to you plus they have that awesome unstoppable to boot for 25% bonus hp, inc atk speed and 50% damage resistance.
1st part: You understand what people are saying, you just choose to try to belittle them to feel superior to them. I didn't mean anything bad when I said you fail at logic (yes I'll write it like this again ), just you contradict yourself when you say classes are supposed to be diverse and not balanced - and to leave them as they are. With continual balancing equaling identical classes to you - because only then they are really balanced. (that's how I understand you)
With that kind of thinking we can have God class, it's diverse and unbalanced as you wish. It can kill anything with 1 word. And a small worm class... it can ... move from one side of neverwinter to the other in a year or so. (ofc everyone would play God but hey we have diverse classes , we are happy)
How is GF diverse atm... it does same thing as other classes. The only diverse part is being able to keep aggro in pve and that is what should be expanded into pvp as well. (immunity to cc in pvp via buff is diverse also and I am all for gf keeping it, fits its defensive(imo) role) As for excessive damage - it steals diversity from TR.
I am for real diversity... not all classes doing everything with small differences.
My goal enjoyable pve and pvp.
Your goal: enjoyable single player portion of game, unplayable MMO
I apologize for being snarky. You make a solid argument for your position in this post. I understand you, now. Now try to avoid the hyperbole; "It can kill anything with 1 word" and try to see from another perspective. (I play a GF and I do not play PVP, so my perspective is limited here, as well.) I can assure you that the GF is not OP in PVE. I have one of every class and play them all in PVE. The GF is very difficult to solo level. I do, however grant that a top geared GF would be a force to be reckoned with in PVP. That seems OK in my mind. A highly armored strong warrior with a sword and shield = intimidating. A stealthed rogue striking from the shadows with devastating damage = nervous tension. A powerful magic user commanding unseen powers to reek havoc on me = frightening. I'm OK with all that in PVE. Why shouldn't PVP be the same? Work as a team and let everyone do what they do. I'm in this for fun, not balance, not competition. We have different perspectives that may not be reconciled, but I'm not asking for changes that would impact anyone elses gameplay just to address a facet of my gameplay. I want the constant nerfing to stop. It leads nowhere good. I'm willing to play with the tools we're given and I like it that way.
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rescorlaMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 24Arc User
Comments
this. 10chrs
No, they are not, they are a mix of control, dps and sturdiness, you spec it to be good at 2 out of 3 but not excelling at it.
rofl... you know. rofl. I don't play GF. rofl. but I killed so many as a CW. ROFL. he can have 6000k rofl power it doesn't matter because rofl its percentage base rofl and everything above rofl 4000 is just plainly waste. rofl. 1% gain or something. rofl. rofl. rofl. rofl
The class that really needs nerfing. TR damage in AOE plus constant CC? Come on. Broken. At least a 60% damage reduction across the board.
I see... So the problem are not the GF... Its the Tenebrous enchants...
I am a GF yes I do great burst. Never have a beat a enemy that I couldn't get to though.
When it comes to PvP, it is REALLY hard to "balance" between the classes. Heck, even the fable WoW still tweaking. I have a feeling it will take years to come to any sort of balance. Adding a new class? heck that will throw the balance off even more.
Please review my campaign and I'll return the favor.
Please nerf Rock. They are way OP in PVP.
Paper is balanced just fine.
Thanks
Scissors
This. I don't play GF, however, I know in PvP I must gain combat advantage and get behind them. If there is two, one suckers the blocks the other gets the kill.
Dear Devs,
Please nerf Rock. They are way OP in PVP.
Paper is balanced just fine.
Thanks
Scissors
Please embrace this simple truth and realize that for any diversity to exist in this, or any game, you must work as a team leveraging each individual class talents.
Devs,
Please feel free to make fighters different from wizards. Pick a vision for each class and then leave them alone. Focus on making the intended skills, feats, etc work properly and ignore all demands for balance. It is truly unachievable and quite unnecessary.
+1000 for you sir.
With 50 % dmg resist plus standing inside astral shield I can still be 2-3-hit, but yes they aren't OP. Oh and as a cleric if I use the most damaging ability in the cleric arsenal.. daily hammer thingy with 16k damage on it - what happens it gets shrugged off as nothing because cleric has no armor penetration I guess. Some GF's take ok dmg from it but others take so little it isn't noticable (and no I'm not talking during their self-buff).
They can also chain knock you to ground/off astral shield... but most don't bother knocking you outside AS since there is no need for it anyway.
Above poster is totally right actually.. make classes different from each other. He just fails at logic , since that would mean GF is tank and would have godly defense and cleric like offense
Just to clarify; Neither you or I can fail at logic. Logic is a noun, like any other tool. You cannot fail at "car" or "hammer". It is, however, possible to fail at making a logical argument, as you have so easily demonstrated. When you make a stawman assumption that a GF must be played in a specific manner. "Taunts would have to work in pvp ofc, somehow".
Please read my post again. The point is exclusive your rebuttle. My point is that it is up to us to find a way to utilize the class tools that the developers present us with to be successful. My argument is simply that there is no such thing as balance. That is the entire point of diversity in team games. Constantly changing the rules/capabilities/physics in any game renders them impotent and lacking in flavor, challenge and real sense of achievment.
1st part: You understand what people are saying, you just choose to try to belittle them to feel superior to them. I didn't mean anything bad when I said you fail at logic (yes I'll write it like this again
With that kind of thinking we can have God class, it's diverse and unbalanced as you wish. It can kill anything with 1 word. And a small worm class... it can ... move from one side of neverwinter to the other in a year or so. (ofc everyone would play God but hey we have diverse classes , we are happy)
How is GF diverse atm... it does same thing as other classes. The only diverse part is being able to keep aggro in pve and that is what should be expanded into pvp as well. (immunity to cc in pvp via buff is diverse also and I am all for gf keeping it, fits its defensive(imo) role) As for excessive damage - it steals diversity from TR.
I am for real diversity... not all classes doing everything with small differences.
My goal enjoyable pve and pvp.
Your goal: enjoyable single player portion of game, unplayable MMO
maybe its because of the tenebrous enchants and stalwart bulwark set bonus but i've played vs many gfs that just camp the point near ur base and 3 shoot anyone that comes until at least 3 ppl come, and he still almost always kills someone 1v3.
My opinion is that the strongest defensive class cant do so much damage, why would i ever want a dc in pvp? id rather have 2 gfs always
and theres still the cc issue, gfs being able to cc someone for 5+ sec(bulls rush + frontline surge+ griffons wrath ) burst for at least 75% of ur hp and tank like no other is a little bit too much imo
and i have a gf.
quite frankly in pvp, if you have tenebs you win, it gets more out of hand if theyre being brought by TRs. Problem in PvP is not about GF dominance/flexibilty or other class' dominance. It's about getting those 7 tenebs, it will win for you.
also the huge damage spikes from GFs come from knight's challenge, if more people knew what it does it would be easy to counter especially for TRs and CWs. I've used it quite a lot in the past in pvp, people tend to run away when they see that red line. Thing is the GF also takes double damage from you, it's a blatant gamble which works awesome when the target is busy elsewhere. In a 1on1 sit a TR should stealth and hit the GF while KC is still on, you might even kill him with a lashing blade and a well timed smoke. CWs all you have to do is to spam your dodge till he uses his other 2 encounters which will most likely have lunging as a gap closer. Choke him then let him taste his own x2 damage. People just need to study classes more, learn how to properly counter, work with the team and stop crying.
with the frontline/bull/griff stun lock, it's not even that hard to counter. not unless the FLsurge is feated and you got hit by it, you're gonna die if you're not a fighter class. GWFs can do the same stunlock to you plus they have that awesome unstoppable to boot for 25% bonus hp, inc atk speed and 50% damage resistance.
Include Ability Score Rolling When Respec-ing (Click and Comment to Show Support)
I apologize for being snarky. You make a solid argument for your position in this post. I understand you, now. Now try to avoid the hyperbole; "It can kill anything with 1 word" and try to see from another perspective. (I play a GF and I do not play PVP, so my perspective is limited here, as well.) I can assure you that the GF is not OP in PVE. I have one of every class and play them all in PVE. The GF is very difficult to solo level. I do, however grant that a top geared GF would be a force to be reckoned with in PVP. That seems OK in my mind. A highly armored strong warrior with a sword and shield = intimidating. A stealthed rogue striking from the shadows with devastating damage = nervous tension. A powerful magic user commanding unseen powers to reek havoc on me = frightening. I'm OK with all that in PVE. Why shouldn't PVP be the same? Work as a team and let everyone do what they do. I'm in this for fun, not balance, not competition. We have different perspectives that may not be reconciled, but I'm not asking for changes that would impact anyone elses gameplay just to address a facet of my gameplay. I want the constant nerfing to stop. It leads nowhere good. I'm willing to play with the tools we're given and I like it that way.
The PVPers whine and cry in pretty much every MMO. No idea why they can't stick to a game designed for PVP from the ground up.