With the Constitution Buffs it seems to me that you may get more out of Con then you do Dex. Also wouldn't you be better off with less points into Steely Defense and having less or no defense (it reduces your determination gain) and replacing this with Hit Points this way you will be able to build up more determination from damage taken. The buffs to Con also make Constitution focus at least worth looking at again, if you have 24 Con, 3 points of this will be roughly the same as 2 actual points of Con which will give 4% more Hit Points and 2% more Resistance Ignored.
I understand this build is crit based, but with the crit soft caps, couldn't you glyph enough for it, or would that hurt you glyphing for Power?
It seems to me that defense is sorta a trap and Steely Defense promotes this, since you actually benefit from taking damage (determination) and the 16% power you get from Defense is rather small returns?
What I'm proposing is replacing Steely Defense with Toughness and the last point into Weapon Mastery (or maybe Con Focus and Weapon Mastery) This would allow us to avoid Defense in favor of more hit points and greater Determination gain.
I am also wondering if Con could be better than Dex with the new buffs.
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kaelathMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited June 2013
20-30 was rather easy for me once I started alternating between my Man at Arms and my Cleric the man at arms makes mobbing insanely easy since everything targets him instead of you.
Until you get to diminished returns in ArP. Just because we can make our wet noodle pointy, doesn't make it any less a wet noodle. (or, if your max noodle damage is 700, but defense means you can only hit for 560, the max damage gain from max ArP will be less then a perfect weapon enhancement.)
Constitution doesn't help you proc Student of the Sword, and when you consider that SotS is one of the best armor debuffs in the entire game maybe you'll see the point of focusing on Critical. Every build I've tried Critical on as a focus has performed better than ArP except in PvP. SotS is enough ArP for any situation that calls for it, and other classes throwing the weight of their debuffs around will result in a bigger damage gain than anything you can do just by yourself. If you focus ArP too hard, you aren't providing enough debuff and you aren't doing enough damage. Not saying ignore ArP, although I do, but there are reasons behind that logic. Critical is required to proc a lot of good things for all GWF builds, and most GWF gear doesn't come with great ArP so you might as well roll with what you're given.
MoF/Thaum CWSS/Thaum CWIV/Protector GFSW/Combat HRSM/Destroyer GWFWK/Executioner TRDO/Faithful DC
I wasn't suggesting ignoring Crit, but you get more than arp from Con, you also get Hit Points, with Dex you only really get crit. If you had more points into Con, Constitution Focus is worth considering. Basically with a Con focus you can ignore Defense(which I feel is a horrible stat for Instigators) and Steely Defense (possibly a trap feat) and you can put those points into Weapon Mastery (1 point) and into Constitution Focus. This would leave with very little needed ArP from gear and no need to stat Defense on gear, and you could put those points in to Crit and Hit Points.
Now there are a few issues with this strat. First this build would have less crit from dex and have to deal with diminishing returns on crit from gear alone. Second some of the gear might already have defense on it. Third, defensive glyphs were easy before, just add defense (16% extra Power), now you would probably be just putting in more hit points.
If the diminishing returns aren't that bad for the lvls we are talking about, basically a difference between 4 and 8 crit depending on how much Con you are replacing Dex with, then this might be a good way to go.
Also how much Defense are we stuck with given the gear? Finally how much of the currently enchanted Defense negatively affecting our Determination building?
I think the lower the Defense the more Determination can be gained from incoming attacks, and having a high con gives you the hit points to deal with this increase in damage also more determination mean more unstoppable which will lead to less damage taken during this times.
With the exclusion of the 17int roll, the minimum Constitution stat at 60 for a GWF will be 14. Between that and SoTs, I rough guessed that anybody running a 21/10 paragon build will yield roughly 80% of the so-called "must have" of the ArP soft-cap value, and allows for some small increase. Destroyer spec will be 85-87%, if you run the recovery conversion.
Getting geared to roughly T1.5 will give you normally 2-2.5k Defense, and deflection is still on the low side without Bravery. Adding that 5% bonus from the sent tree is still quite noticeable, even with Bravery equipped. (tend to run boss fights with Bravery up, while everything else is dps oriented.)
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bpphantomMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited July 2013
My GWF is only 38 and I respec'd to this build a couple of days ago. I saw a very noticeable (since I noticed it) increase in DPS. It's taking some getting used to but overall I quite enjoy the feel of it. I'm looking forward to branching out into the other feat trees later on.
Is there a recommended gear set to look for? I know the stat priority from the first post, but is there a set that specifically fits?
- bpphantom
Grace, Tiefling Devoted Cleric
"Do what you can, with what you have, where you are. Then leave the rest to Batman."
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wilthrythMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 4Arc User
edited July 2013
I just wanted to thank the Original poster for this build and the resultant guide. I had created one of each class simply to use some as mules for stuff. I decided to play each to 20 in order to use a mount and get around faster. I fell in love with this class thanks to this build and hit 60 last night, not once regretting my decision to play this character. I usually play casters or healers and never weapon DPS or tanks but I may have to change my POV after this.
I will say that since I sometimes play inconsistent or odd hours, I often solo and therefore have been using Restoring Strike in place of Indomitable Battle Strike, but switch out when grouped for boss fights.
As far as 60 gear, I have found it to be relatively cheap in the AH and have purchased both a Bladestorm (which maxes Recovery) and Berzerker (which maxes Crit) Set. Either way my Power ends up well over the 3K cap and my ArmPen will need to come from enchantments. I've been using a blue Ioun stone since the cleric proved useless once I hit the 20's and it reached 25 last night as well. It's been loaded with Recovery and Critical Strike.
Anyway, thank you ExtinctioN, you made this game a lot more fun for me after the Wizard kinda let me down. Now to start leveling a cleric.
Shard Posted the suggested feats and powers, which is cool, but can someone maybe suggest an ability progression? IE: What strength, con, dex etc to start with, and which to pick at which level? Thanks.
Oh, and just to clarfify, here's the suggested Powers and Feats:
shad99
shad99 is offline
PWE User
Join Date
May 2013
Ok, lvl 60 feats & Powers as I used them based on this build...
Using this build and loving it. I absolutely wreck damage meters.
Currently my GS is just over 12k. Using 2/4 Avatar and 2/4 Vigilant. I'm a little curious on stat priorities. I am just shy of 5k power now, with 1.6k ArPen, and about 2.5k Recovery. What goals should I be looking at for Power, ArPen, and Recovery do you think?
Oh, my crit stat is about 3.2k as well.
I see a lot of the GWFs out there stacking power like crazy and basically ignoring ArPen entirely. From what I've read, I should be shooting for 2.2k ArPen eventually, and around 3k recovery. Should I work on those two first, or focus on getting that power higher?
Also, how good is the 4 piece Avatar set bonus in practice? Is it worth it to swap out my vigilant gear if I can get the rest of my AoW set, or is it better to stick to only two pieces for this build?
I have actually enjoyed the play style of this Build, thought I'd post a Thanks.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]:D
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kaelathMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited December 2013
This needs updated with the latest patches. I want to know if it's now viable to put 5 points into Great Weapon Focus now that Unstoppable Recovery is no longer in the instigator tree?
Thank you ExtinctioN this has been well thought and written!
As has been pointed out. As I start doing MC / DKpvp / CN / Our AoE dps is lacking to a CW even an HR. Secondly, as I have been grouping with other GWF's my "overall" dps is starting to be substantially lower. I'm currently at 12.5k GS, there is a very small chance that gear is the effect, but unlikley. I'm usually the lowest GS player in my group. Alas, im seriously debating respeccing. and the reson for the reply again is to say thanks, and hope for some further feedback
Comments
I understand this build is crit based, but with the crit soft caps, couldn't you glyph enough for it, or would that hurt you glyphing for Power?
It seems to me that defense is sorta a trap and Steely Defense promotes this, since you actually benefit from taking damage (determination) and the 16% power you get from Defense is rather small returns?
What I'm proposing is replacing Steely Defense with Toughness and the last point into Weapon Mastery (or maybe Con Focus and Weapon Mastery) This would allow us to avoid Defense in favor of more hit points and greater Determination gain.
I am also wondering if Con could be better than Dex with the new buffs.
Now there are a few issues with this strat. First this build would have less crit from dex and have to deal with diminishing returns on crit from gear alone. Second some of the gear might already have defense on it. Third, defensive glyphs were easy before, just add defense (16% extra Power), now you would probably be just putting in more hit points.
If the diminishing returns aren't that bad for the lvls we are talking about, basically a difference between 4 and 8 crit depending on how much Con you are replacing Dex with, then this might be a good way to go.
Also how much Defense are we stuck with given the gear? Finally how much of the currently enchanted Defense negatively affecting our Determination building?
I think the lower the Defense the more Determination can be gained from incoming attacks, and having a high con gives you the hit points to deal with this increase in damage also more determination mean more unstoppable which will lead to less damage taken during this times.
Getting geared to roughly T1.5 will give you normally 2-2.5k Defense, and deflection is still on the low side without Bravery. Adding that 5% bonus from the sent tree is still quite noticeable, even with Bravery equipped. (tend to run boss fights with Bravery up, while everything else is dps oriented.)
Is there a recommended gear set to look for? I know the stat priority from the first post, but is there a set that specifically fits?
Grace, Tiefling Devoted Cleric
"Do what you can, with what you have, where you are. Then leave the rest to Batman."
I will say that since I sometimes play inconsistent or odd hours, I often solo and therefore have been using Restoring Strike in place of Indomitable Battle Strike, but switch out when grouped for boss fights.
As far as 60 gear, I have found it to be relatively cheap in the AH and have purchased both a Bladestorm (which maxes Recovery) and Berzerker (which maxes Crit) Set. Either way my Power ends up well over the 3K cap and my ArmPen will need to come from enchantments. I've been using a blue Ioun stone since the cleric proved useless once I hit the 20's and it reached 25 last night as well. It's been loaded with Recovery and Critical Strike.
Anyway, thank you ExtinctioN, you made this game a lot more fun for me after the Wizard kinda let me down. Now to start leveling a cleric.
Oh, and just to clarfify, here's the suggested Powers and Feats:
shad99
shad99 is offline
PWE User
Join Date
May 2013
Ok, lvl 60 feats & Powers as I used them based on this build...
Feats:
http://www.mediafire.com/download/cw...enys_Feats.jpg
Powers:
http://www.mediafire.com/download/h5...s_Powers_1.jpg
http://www.mediafire.com/download/9z...s_Powers_2.jpg
http://www.mediafire.com/download/pe...s_Powers_3.jpg
Edit: Ok Mediafire keeps telling me my jpegs are not images... So for the time being I'm linking to them.
Thank you.
Currently my GS is just over 12k. Using 2/4 Avatar and 2/4 Vigilant. I'm a little curious on stat priorities. I am just shy of 5k power now, with 1.6k ArPen, and about 2.5k Recovery. What goals should I be looking at for Power, ArPen, and Recovery do you think?
Oh, my crit stat is about 3.2k as well.
I see a lot of the GWFs out there stacking power like crazy and basically ignoring ArPen entirely. From what I've read, I should be shooting for 2.2k ArPen eventually, and around 3k recovery. Should I work on those two first, or focus on getting that power higher?
Also, how good is the 4 piece Avatar set bonus in practice? Is it worth it to swap out my vigilant gear if I can get the rest of my AoW set, or is it better to stick to only two pieces for this build?
As has been pointed out. As I start doing MC / DKpvp / CN / Our AoE dps is lacking to a CW even an HR. Secondly, as I have been grouping with other GWF's my "overall" dps is starting to be substantially lower. I'm currently at 12.5k GS, there is a very small chance that gear is the effect, but unlikley. I'm usually the lowest GS player in my group. Alas, im seriously debating respeccing. and the reson for the reply again is to say thanks, and hope for some further feedback