Obviously I was referring to variables that we have control over and based on what the current content provides. Regardless, I still dont see how that makes a difference, as many of a CWs powers also have Target limits, while also using our only meaningful at-will which happens to be single-target. And even if, hypothetical speaking, you are right, you still need a CW to bring those 5 mobs all nice and packed within your swing reach. :P
Right now I will take any boost to GWFs, but all I see in these "balancing" is nerfing the dps of CWs and TRs, and slightly boosting that of GWFs. I donno, it seems to me that the people who work on content and its mechanics aren't communicating with those balancing classes. I dont see how these class changes will have any impact on how dungeons are run.
Most of the CWs AoE powers don't seem to have target caps, or theyre high enough to not be too noticable amongst seas of numbers. GWF has a pretty wide swing radius especially with Wicked Strike, so we wouldn't need a singularity for em unless we was talking things like Ash Disciples, in which case i'm sure we'd both just walk away :P
The RoE hit that CWs took seems pretty substantial, but moreso because it compounds with the damage hit rogues took. I really don't think boosting and nerfing damages is how to have gone around balancing the classes but cryptic seems to think otherwise.
Hey everyone, I'm back and it looks like some changes have been announced for GWF and some items on the list that sound like they are perfect for instigator
Summer is f'ing busy at work so I don't get the time I'd like to play during these months; anyway, I can't wait to see the values on the buff to wicked strike. Wicked strike was already really good and straight damage buffs stacked onto group assault ... Drooling here!
Not so fast ... One of the only encounter powers in the GWF arsenal to get double buffed; the damage is being increased and the cool down reduced. The instigator has the hardest hitting not so fast to begin with as our talents increase the damage of it 10%, so it's getting a damage buff and on top of the damage buff from our instigator tree and it also provides group wide combat advantage, increased crit chance and damage increase. All on a shorter cool down ... Beautiful.
I'm also very interested to see the cool down reduction on our skills as there is a two fold buff from this for the instigator:
Buff 1 - (all gwf builds) faster rotation through skills obviously means you get more of them off quicker which in itself is a damage increase; also shorter rotation through the skills means faster AP gain for dailies.
Buff 2 - (instigator only buff) shorter cool downs means not so fast and mighty leap if you choose to use it has more combat advantage uptime. The combat advantage buff is a party wide buff which in itself gives us instigators a party wide buff no one else can provide ( edit ... Wizzy feat also can give this from another post - not on demand as instigator can though). Now we can do it even more often! Awesome! Also our talents give us increased damage and crit chance during combat advantage so this is a instigator only buff. Doubly awesome for us!
At first glance, I'd like to say thanks to cryptic for giving the instigator so much love. We were competitive before but depending on the values of the adjustments we could be crushers in the near future. Almost every aspect of our core damage got straight up buffed!
The sentinel got some love as well which is great, the destroyer on the other hand - I'm not sure what happened to them? Cryptic must have missed them as far as I can see.
Buff 2 - (instigator only buff) shorter cool downs means not so fast and mighty leap if you choose to use it has more combat advantage uptime. The combat advantage buff is a party wide buff which in itself gives us instigators a party wide buff no one else can provide. Now we can do it even more often! Awesome! Also our talents give us increased damage and crit chance during combat advantage so this is a instigator only buff. Doubly awesome for us!
.
Not to be a killjoy, love your guide, is one of the reasons I decided to stick with my GWF
But pretty sure the wizard feat (which is almost universally taken) Nightmare Wizardry -- 20% chance on crit to give combat advantage against the target for 4 seconds -- Also applies to the group, since it doesn't specific WHO gets CA, and more than once duoing with a wizard friend while levling i'd notice the CA circle would randomly appear completely around the enemy like it does when I hit NSF. So not the only ones, just the only ones not based on chance.
Not to be a killjoy, love your guide, is one of the reasons I decided to stick with my GWF
But pretty sure the wizard feat (which is almost universally taken) Nightmare Wizardry -- 20% chance on crit to give combat advantage against the target for 4 seconds -- Also applies to the group, since it doesn't specific WHO gets CA, and more than once duoing with a wizard friend while levling i'd notice the CA circle would randomly appear completely around the enemy like it does when I hit NSF. So not the only ones, just the only ones not based on chance.
Nice to know that and thank you for sharing, I wasn't aware of that wizzy skill that gave party wide CA.
Destroyer may still have got some love. Sure Strike buffed (how much? That will be the kicker) shorter cd on restoring strike, add the buffs destroyer already gets and it might actually pull some decent single target dps. Can't tell atm.
Looks like sentinel tree got a lot of love, gfw tanking may be viable now as well with the massive threat buffs
Nice to know that and thank you for sharing, I wasn't aware of that wizzy skill that gave party wide CA.
Honestly, I'm not 100% on it myself, the tooltip jsut says "Grants Combat Advantage", but as I noted my experience leveling seems to show that it's group-wide.
Easiest way to tell, for those who don't know: If you look at the targeting circle on a mob, when someone else is fighting it, there is a chunk of the circle that's blue, that's the "combat advantage" area, if you hit a mob from that direction, you get CA damage; When you daze a mob, or use a 100% CA ability like NSF with the feat, the entire targeting circle turns blue to show the granted CA.
You can also use that to tell when someone else is applying it.
Destroyer may still have got some love. Sure Strike buffed (how much? That will be the kicker) shorter cd on restoring strike, add the buffs destroyer already gets and it might actually pull some decent single target dps. Can't tell atm.
Looks like sentinel tree got a lot of love, gfw tanking may be viable now as well with the massive threat buffs
Thanks Xero I will keep that in mind for my lvl 1 3rd gwf that is still sitting pretty at the starting point waiting for the patch to go Sentinel with
On another note atleast gwf Instigator has 100% chance with the feats for Combat Advantage..can't let Wizs have everything, but tbh a real letdown is that I would rather as a gwf have utility buffs or have been given atleast a decent cc like a strike that puts 2-3 mobs asleep and then we could be considered useful like a cw. It's good to have damage, but it's not all about highest dmg. Would like to be considered for Castle Never instead of being booted for not being useful..my guildmate Copticone who was just earlier posting here is a very skillful CW and he's trying to be a good guy to me in-game as I play GWF only and wants only the best for GWF as he has a gwf alt himself.
Anyway back to enjoying the gwf after maintenance pre-patch with helping new 60 guildies gear up with t1/ easy t2 dungeons. I am really enjoying playing my main as destroyer build and my 2nd gwf that is lvl 55 now with Instigator build. I used instigator build or slight variation of this one for levelling up my main since the 30th April and it's good fun.
Honestly, I'm not 100% on it myself, the tooltip jsut says "Grants Combat Advantage", but as I noted my experience leveling seems to show that it's group-wide.
Easiest way to tell, for those who don't know: If you look at the targeting circle on a mob, when someone else is fighting it, there is a chunk of the circle that's blue, that's the "combat advantage" area, if you hit a mob from that direction, you get CA damage; When you daze a mob, or use a 100% CA ability like NSF with the feat, the entire targeting circle turns blue to show the granted CA.
You can also use that to tell when someone else is applying it.
The grammar is very weird, Nightmare Wizardry says "[You have] a chance to grant combat advantage against it." In contrast Allied Opportunity is very specific (and much more clear), it says "you and your allies gain combat advantage against the damaged targets." I assumed Nightmare Wizardry was a personal effect as well but I can't be certain.
Rise of the Fell King - A Forgotten Realms campaign (work in progress) NWS-DS38FJ5R8 Part One: The Fell Cavern (looking for feedback!) NW-DTWX9RBQH Hopefully more to come!
The grammar is very weird, Nightmare Wizardry says "[You have] a chance to grant combat advantage against it." In contrast Allied Opportunity is very specific (and much more clear), it says "you and your allies gain combat advantage against the damaged targets." I assumed Nightmare Wizardry was a personal effect as well but I can't be certain.
Well the issue with that assumption is that combat advantage is an individual thing, it's not -- If you look athe the groundi n the targeting circle there is always a white chunk, if you stand on that side and swing the chunk becomes blue, meaning you are getting CA damage.
When you CC the mob, or use NSF with allied opportunity, the chunk just becomes a circle of blue around their feet, showing that they currently take combat advantage from everything.
Logically speaking, for NW to work, it would have to do the same "blue circle" effect, and since CA is calculated based on the direction of what it's fighting (thus changing the side it's flank is on), not based one ach characters relative position to it, i'm petty sure CA is attached to the mob, not the character, so effects granting CA, would grant it to the group.
Well the issue with that assumption is that combat advantage is an individual thing, it's not -- If you look athe the groundi n the targeting circle there is always a white chunk, if you stand on that side and swing the chunk becomes blue, meaning you are getting CA damage.
When you CC the mob, or use NSF with allied opportunity, the chunk just becomes a circle of blue around their feet, showing that they currently take combat advantage from everything.
Logically speaking, for NW to work, it would have to do the same "blue circle" effect, and since CA is calculated based on the direction of what it's fighting (thus changing the side it's flank is on), not based one ach characters relative position to it, i'm petty sure CA is attached to the mob, not the character, so effects granting CA, would grant it to the group.
But the "blue circle" shows up on a player-by-player basis. For example, when a rogue goes into Stealth mode, the circle appears around all monsters, because the rogue has combat advantage against them. But obviously, a rogue going into Stealth mode does not give the entire party combat advantage. Stealth is just one example of a combat advantage being specific to the player.
Rise of the Fell King - A Forgotten Realms campaign (work in progress) NWS-DS38FJ5R8 Part One: The Fell Cavern (looking for feedback!) NW-DTWX9RBQH Hopefully more to come!
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btwistboyMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 8Arc User
edited June 2013
If you don't mind, I'd like you to go more in depth with the guide.
What amount of the stats should I be aiming for? You say Power>Crit>Recovery>Armor Pen, but I want to know how much in each stat I should be getting.
I'd like you to re-read your guide to remove any and all spelling errors.
And there's no one way to playing any class in Neverwinter, and to be honest.
That's the best part of it.
Other than that, your guide had some usefull information.
However unprofessional in looked.
can you guys teach me on how to use "Come & Get It?"
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krazeiefuryMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 20Arc User
edited June 2013
With the information in the last weeks that has come up about Armor Pen how are you handeling this in your build? are you relying on runes, gear and companion to provide this or is there some way to realocate point to account for this in the second level in the destroyer tree?
I'd like you to re-read your guide to remove any and all spelling errors.
And there's no one way to playing any class in Neverwinter, and to be honest.
That's the best part of it.
Other than that, your guide had some usefull information.
However unprofessional in looked.
Wow, this is the 2nd guide this morning I have seen you complain about spelling and format of a guide. Do you have anything useful to add to the guide, or are you just browsing the net looking for grammar errors? BTW, your message had the following errors: 1. Re-reading his guide would not automatically remove any errors. He would have to edit the guide to remove the errors. 2. "Playing any" in line 2 should actually be "play a." No one way to playing any class is just silly talk. 3. I know from your other post I saw that you are also big on punctuation. That fact makes the period at the end of line two a little ironic, don't you think? 4. Usefull in line 4? Really? Even the spell checker caught that as I typed it. 5. Line 5 is just utter trash. "However unprofessional in looked." Not even a complete sentence. "In looked" could almost be considered a typo if the average keyboard had the letter N and T next to each other. Add to the spacing issue most people use different fingers to press the N and T buttons and you just have epic fail. Nice try though.
Wow, this is the 2nd guide this morning I have seen you complain about spelling and format of a guide. Do you have anything useful to add to the guide, or are you just browsing the net looking for grammar errors? BTW, your message had the following errors: 1. Re-reading his guide would not automatically remove any errors. He would have to edit the guide to remove the errors. 2. "Playing any" in line 2 should actually be "play a." No one way to playing any class is just silly talk. 3. I know from your other post I saw that you are also big on punctuation. That fact makes the period at the end of line two a little ironic, don't you think? 4. Usefull in line 4? Really? Even the spell checker caught that as I typed it. 5. Line 5 is just utter trash. "However unprofessional in looked." Not even a complete sentence. "In looked" could almost be considered a typo if the average keyboard had the letter N and T next to each other. Add to the spacing issue most people use different fingers to press the N and T buttons and you just have epic fail. Nice try though.
I can't figure out which is the better spec for PvE endgame, this one or forsakenlich1's? Especially after the patch. I have been following this thread the whole way. Just can't figure out if Destroyer is better or Instigator. Both builds agree on using the same encounters and the same At-Will rotations, namely tapping WMS and using WS while that's going on and then repeating. Anyone have any ideas?
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starlitenlMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 28Arc User
I can't figure out which is the better spec for PvE endgame, this one or forsakenlich1's? Especially after the patch. I have been following this thread the whole way. Just can't figure out if Destroyer is better or Instigator. Both builds agree on using the same encounters and the same At-Will rotations, namely tapping WMS and using WS while that's going on and then repeating. Anyone have any ideas?
- Destroyer will be better in single target damage: Bosses and mobs with a few high Hp targets
- Instigator will be better in multi target damage: Clearing adds, clearing larger mobs with many targets
It all comes down to your favorite playstyle, both builds are solid builds with different playstyles.
Wow, this is the 2nd guide this morning I have seen you complain about spelling and format of a guide. Do you have anything useful to add to the guide, or are you just browsing the net looking for grammar errors? BTW, your message had the following errors: 1. Re-reading his guide would not automatically remove any errors. He would have to edit the guide to remove the errors. 2. "Playing any" in line 2 should actually be "play a." No one way to playing any class is just silly talk. 3. I know from your other post I saw that you are also big on punctuation. That fact makes the period at the end of line two a little ironic, don't you think? 4. Usefull in line 4? Really? Even the spell checker caught that as I typed it. 5. Line 5 is just utter trash. "However unprofessional in looked." Not even a complete sentence. "In looked" could almost be considered a typo if the average keyboard had the letter N and T next to each other. Add to the spacing issue most people use different fingers to press the N and T buttons and you just have epic fail. Nice try though.
HAHA PWNT that fool you did. I despise grammar <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>'s.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Character is what a man is in the dark
What do you think about putting 5 pts into the At will increase in the destroyer line > the bleed ?
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krazeiefuryMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 20Arc User
edited June 2013
ok so I had used most of this build with the exception of swapping out the Sentinel paragon for Armor pen based off recovery. Don't have the names infront of me right now. and the build did fairly well I gained some ground on wiz and rogues a little bit. I decided yesterday to use the complete build yesterday and drop my armor pen to 17oo ish w/o the bonus and I basically doubled the damage of the wiz and rogue in my group. Granted this wiz is performing his control prowess perfectly. Not sure if I just got a bad rogue as he was PU. Hope to test it better with a real rogue this weekend. but, doing 11.5 mill to 6.5 on a t2 Pirates run was just fun. I did choose to use Come and get it as my third encounter as I like to pull the mobs in and have control over them when I am unloading and making them all bloody and bruised. This build was fun to wreck through a dungeon that was previously not a lot of fun due to the wiz's wanting to punt the mobs off the side and use shortcuts to skirt mobs. We ran it twice in fact. the first time with 2 GWF,CW,GF,and a cleric it went smooth and fast. The second time we ran a balanced group again with Pick up tank& rogue and it went fairly quick. Now I only have 1 plague and 2 tenebrous enchantments. I can't wait to throw in a few more and watch the domino's fall. My only issue and it is cause of using come and get it is the longer time to build up for unstopable. I can live with that though.
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darkstorn42Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
What do you think about putting 5 pts into the At will increase in the destroyer line > the bleed ?
So I was wondering this to and it got me to thinking. I have 3k power, and I have half of my gear as tank gear. So I realize that is a low number, but it will do well. Hitting 3 targets (combat dummies) My third hit non crit wicked strike deals just under 1k damage, with full defense shred. So 10% more damage is 100 damage. That 15% I get from 3k power is 450. This is way more damage, and will get much higher with your top teir stacks. I say go with the bleed.
ok so I had used most of this build with the exception of swapping out the Sentinel paragon for Armor pen based off recovery. Don't have the names infront of me right now. and the build did fairly well I gained some ground on wiz and rogues a little bit. I decided yesterday to use the complete build yesterday and drop my armor pen to 17oo ish w/o the bonus and I basically doubled the damage of the wiz and rogue in my group. Granted this wiz is performing his control prowess perfectly. Not sure if I just got a bad rogue as he was PU. Hope to test it better with a real rogue this weekend. but, doing 11.5 mill to 6.5 on a t2 Pirates run was just fun. I did choose to use Come and get it as my third encounter as I like to pull the mobs in and have control over them when I am unloading and making them all bloody and bruised. This build was fun to wreck through a dungeon that was previously not a lot of fun due to the wiz's wanting to punt the mobs off the side and use shortcuts to skirt mobs. We ran it twice in fact. the first time with 2 GWF,CW,GF,and a cleric it went smooth and fast. The second time we ran a balanced group again with Pick up tank& rogue and it went fairly quick. Now I only have 1 plague and 2 tenebrous enchantments. I can't wait to throw in a few more and watch the domino's fall. My only issue and it is cause of using come and get it is the longer time to build up for unstopable. I can live with that though.
4
Lol i cant believe your ran withour armor shred before.. its gwf's best trait period. You are prob the first person ive ever heard of not using it at some point.
GWF lvl 60.
Completed all content waiting for more.
And class balances.... trololollol.
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krazeiefuryMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 20Arc User
4
Lol i cant believe your ran withour armor shred before.. its gwf's best trait period. You are prob the first person ive ever heard of not using it at some point.
I respec'd and am using armor shred now and skipping the Armor pen. fairly large increase in dps but, i'm sitting around 1700 Armor pen and I'm not liking that to much. what's worse is pet is giving me 1100 armor pen. With Tene enchantments (5) i'm finding it hard to get that number back to 2200.
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Lol i cant believe your ran withour armor shred before.. its gwf's best trait period. You are prob the first person ive ever heard of not using it at some point.
what is armor shred? don't see it anywhere what is it named
Comments
The RoE hit that CWs took seems pretty substantial, but moreso because it compounds with the damage hit rogues took. I really don't think boosting and nerfing damages is how to have gone around balancing the classes but cryptic seems to think otherwise.
Summer is f'ing busy at work so I don't get the time I'd like to play during these months; anyway, I can't wait to see the values on the buff to wicked strike. Wicked strike was already really good and straight damage buffs stacked onto group assault ... Drooling here!
Not so fast ... One of the only encounter powers in the GWF arsenal to get double buffed; the damage is being increased and the cool down reduced. The instigator has the hardest hitting not so fast to begin with as our talents increase the damage of it 10%, so it's getting a damage buff and on top of the damage buff from our instigator tree and it also provides group wide combat advantage, increased crit chance and damage increase. All on a shorter cool down ... Beautiful.
I'm also very interested to see the cool down reduction on our skills as there is a two fold buff from this for the instigator:
Buff 1 - (all gwf builds) faster rotation through skills obviously means you get more of them off quicker which in itself is a damage increase; also shorter rotation through the skills means faster AP gain for dailies.
Buff 2 - (instigator only buff) shorter cool downs means not so fast and mighty leap if you choose to use it has more combat advantage uptime. The combat advantage buff is a party wide buff which in itself gives us instigators a party wide buff no one else can provide ( edit ... Wizzy feat also can give this from another post - not on demand as instigator can though). Now we can do it even more often! Awesome! Also our talents give us increased damage and crit chance during combat advantage so this is a instigator only buff. Doubly awesome for us!
At first glance, I'd like to say thanks to cryptic for giving the instigator so much love. We were competitive before but depending on the values of the adjustments we could be crushers in the near future. Almost every aspect of our core damage got straight up buffed!
The sentinel got some love as well which is great, the destroyer on the other hand - I'm not sure what happened to them? Cryptic must have missed them as far as I can see.
Extinction - GWF
Not to be a killjoy, love your guide, is one of the reasons I decided to stick with my GWF
But pretty sure the wizard feat (which is almost universally taken) Nightmare Wizardry -- 20% chance on crit to give combat advantage against the target for 4 seconds -- Also applies to the group, since it doesn't specific WHO gets CA, and more than once duoing with a wizard friend while levling i'd notice the CA circle would randomly appear completely around the enemy like it does when I hit NSF. So not the only ones, just the only ones not based on chance.
Nice to know that and thank you for sharing, I wasn't aware of that wizzy skill that gave party wide CA.
Extinction - GWF
Looks like sentinel tree got a lot of love, gfw tanking may be viable now as well with the massive threat buffs
Honestly, I'm not 100% on it myself, the tooltip jsut says "Grants Combat Advantage", but as I noted my experience leveling seems to show that it's group-wide.
Easiest way to tell, for those who don't know: If you look at the targeting circle on a mob, when someone else is fighting it, there is a chunk of the circle that's blue, that's the "combat advantage" area, if you hit a mob from that direction, you get CA damage; When you daze a mob, or use a 100% CA ability like NSF with the feat, the entire targeting circle turns blue to show the granted CA.
You can also use that to tell when someone else is applying it.
On another note atleast gwf Instigator has 100% chance with the feats for Combat Advantage..can't let Wizs have everything, but tbh a real letdown is that I would rather as a gwf have utility buffs or have been given atleast a decent cc like a strike that puts 2-3 mobs asleep and then we could be considered useful like a cw. It's good to have damage, but it's not all about highest dmg. Would like to be considered for Castle Never instead of being booted for not being useful..my guildmate Copticone who was just earlier posting here is a very skillful CW and he's trying to be a good guy to me in-game as I play GWF only and wants only the best for GWF as he has a gwf alt himself.
Anyway back to enjoying the gwf after maintenance pre-patch with helping new 60 guildies gear up with t1/ easy t2 dungeons. I am really enjoying playing my main as destroyer build and my 2nd gwf that is lvl 55 now with Instigator build. I used instigator build or slight variation of this one for levelling up my main since the 30th April and it's good fun.
The grammar is very weird, Nightmare Wizardry says "[You have] a chance to grant combat advantage against it." In contrast Allied Opportunity is very specific (and much more clear), it says "you and your allies gain combat advantage against the damaged targets." I assumed Nightmare Wizardry was a personal effect as well but I can't be certain.
Part One: The Fell Cavern (looking for feedback!) NW-DTWX9RBQH
Hopefully more to come!
Can you post your build screen shots please for powers and feats.
Thx
Hobnobs
Well the issue with that assumption is that combat advantage is an individual thing, it's not -- If you look athe the groundi n the targeting circle there is always a white chunk, if you stand on that side and swing the chunk becomes blue, meaning you are getting CA damage.
When you CC the mob, or use NSF with allied opportunity, the chunk just becomes a circle of blue around their feet, showing that they currently take combat advantage from everything.
Logically speaking, for NW to work, it would have to do the same "blue circle" effect, and since CA is calculated based on the direction of what it's fighting (thus changing the side it's flank is on), not based one ach characters relative position to it, i'm petty sure CA is attached to the mob, not the character, so effects granting CA, would grant it to the group.
But the "blue circle" shows up on a player-by-player basis. For example, when a rogue goes into Stealth mode, the circle appears around all monsters, because the rogue has combat advantage against them. But obviously, a rogue going into Stealth mode does not give the entire party combat advantage. Stealth is just one example of a combat advantage being specific to the player.
Part One: The Fell Cavern (looking for feedback!) NW-DTWX9RBQH
Hopefully more to come!
What amount of the stats should I be aiming for? You say Power>Crit>Recovery>Armor Pen, but I want to know how much in each stat I should be getting.
And there's no one way to playing any class in Neverwinter, and to be honest.
That's the best part of it.
Other than that, your guide had some usefull information.
However unprofessional in looked.
I think you just owned that moron....
- Destroyer will be better in single target damage: Bosses and mobs with a few high Hp targets
- Instigator will be better in multi target damage: Clearing adds, clearing larger mobs with many targets
It all comes down to your favorite playstyle, both builds are solid builds with different playstyles.
HAHA PWNT that fool you did. I despise grammar <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>'s.
Character is what a man is in the dark
So I was wondering this to and it got me to thinking. I have 3k power, and I have half of my gear as tank gear. So I realize that is a low number, but it will do well. Hitting 3 targets (combat dummies) My third hit non crit wicked strike deals just under 1k damage, with full defense shred. So 10% more damage is 100 damage. That 15% I get from 3k power is 450. This is way more damage, and will get much higher with your top teir stacks. I say go with the bleed.
Lol i cant believe your ran withour armor shred before.. its gwf's best trait period. You are prob the first person ive ever heard of not using it at some point.
Completed all content waiting for more.
And class balances.... trololollol.
I respec'd and am using armor shred now and skipping the Armor pen. fairly large increase in dps but, i'm sitting around 1700 Armor pen and I'm not liking that to much. what's worse is pet is giving me 1100 armor pen. With Tene enchantments (5) i'm finding it hard to get that number back to 2200.
what is armor shred? don't see it anywhere what is it named