Hey all, thanks for your feedback on this! We're always working to make PvP feel more balanced and your thoughts help us to do just that. Keep 'em coming!
I think taking player feed back on how to balance pvp is one of the bad or worst ways to get a valid response. Why don't the devs actually take a few days and actually play it themselves?
Here is usually the way the complaints go.
~GWF~ yeah the cw, tr and gf are way OP, you devs need to nerf them.
~CW~ yeah the gwf, tr and gf are way OP, you devs need to nerf them.
~DC~ yeah the cw, tr and gf are way OP, you devs need to nerf them.
~TR~ yeah the cw, dcs and gfs are way OP, you devs need to nerf them.
~GF~ yeah everyone except the gf need to be nerfed, you devs need to nerf them.
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vmlinuxMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited June 2013
If you can't still do dungeons post patch your a cleric that needs to either work a little harder, upgrade your lousy gear, or find a better group/guild. That hasn't ever been the problem, the problem is if you don't want to run a monobuild character with very little choice in how to spec your screwed, and running around having to load the same <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> every single day, and spam the same things over and over and over and over and over and over and over is a little boring, especially when the game was so much fun beforehand.
PvP before level 60 was fun. After 60 it's somehow managed to be worse than the Diablo 3 launch, and you all thought that bar couldn't go any lower.
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warfluxMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited June 2013
PVP is not won in game, it's won by complaining on the forums. All pvp players should just have their own server and their own stupid rules and nerfs.
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tekkwinterMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 23Arc User
edited June 2013
PvP is whacked. Anyone on this thread that says otherwise is most likely playing a Rogue, GWF or CW and has all T2 gear with alot of Tenenbrous enchants and they dont want the one/two shot train ride to ever end.
The TTK on NW PvP is insane. Again...Im only talking level 60 here which is what everyone should be talking about as the first 59 levels dont matter.
There is too much CC with no diminishing returns which is one problem. But the damage is just too high. Im a DC and have pretty decent gear (around 10450 GS) around 25k health..defense could be higher but its around 1500. Ive played a good amount of PvP...I dont stand still for rogues etc etc.
Earlier I had a rogue hit me for 17868 with something...then followed it up with a few other hits and I was dead in like 3 seconds. Never got to even hit a button as he had dropped the smoke thing or whatever. That is broke. Same thing happen earlier with a CW that hit me for around 15k with an ability followed up by a few other hits for 5-6k ish...dead before I could even react.
I dont know if they need to just put a debuff on everyone as they come into PvP that lowers damage by like 40%....so then it doesnt mess up PvE balance. Or they could do the opposite and buff everyones health as they come in...I dont know the perfect solution. But as it is...it sucks and more and more people are going to quit doing it altogether soon..its already happening. Notice how your seeing less and less DC in PvP?
PvP is whacked. Anyone on this thread that says otherwise is most likely playing a Rogue, GWF or CW and has all T2 gear with alot of Tenenbrous enchants and they dont want the one/two shot train ride to ever end.
The TTK on NW PvP is insane. Again...Im only talking level 60 here which is what everyone should be talking about as the first 59 levels dont matter.
There is too much CC with no diminishing returns which is one problem. But the damage is just too high. Im a DC and have pretty decent gear (around 10450 GS) around 25k health..defense could be higher but its around 1500. Ive played a good amount of PvP...I dont stand still for rogues etc etc.
Earlier I had a rogue hit me for 17868 with something...then followed it up with a few other hits and I was dead in like 3 seconds. Never got to even hit a button as he had dropped the smoke thing or whatever. That is broke. Same thing happen earlier with a CW that hit me for around 15k with an ability followed up by a few other hits for 5-6k ish...dead before I could even react.
I dont know if they need to just put a debuff on everyone as they come into PvP that lowers damage by like 40%....so then it doesnt mess up PvE balance. Or they could do the opposite and buff everyones health as they come in...I dont know the perfect solution. But as it is...it sucks and more and more people are going to quit doing it altogether soon..its already happening. Notice how your seeing less and less DC in PvP?
DC's need some love for sure. That's not to say that the other classes should be nerfed, it's much easier to just buff them up a bit.
As a TR below 60 you are getting owned then you need to learn to play your class or how to roll your class. Even at 60 I still own people with executioner build and there is no reason anyone else shouldn't. 90% of the matches I play I am top two of the bracket, even with a crappy team I still have been at minimum top 5. Yes GF's are a little OP with the hybrid build for PvP, which a little tweaking of the damage of some of those abilities would make them more balanced. To say a DC is trash at PvP is far from the truth, I have several times went 1v1 with a DC and had a great fight and yes I have lost to a DC several times. I am not the BEST player but I have done lots of research and had to scrap an entire TR build and start over because of stupid point placements. Learn what works and what doesnt and learn to play your class instead of whinning about how this class can do this or this class can do that. I for one have no problem deft striking to a CW, stealthing and Lashing blade them to death. If you have trouble getting to them then invest in your throwing knives is all I can suggest.
As a TR below 60 you are getting owned then you need to learn to play your class or how to roll your class. Even at 60 I still own people with executioner build and there is no reason anyone else shouldn't. 90% of the matches I play I am top two of the bracket, even with a crappy team I still have been at minimum top 5. Yes GF's are a little OP with the hybrid build for PvP, which a little tweaking of the damage of some of those abilities would make them more balanced. To say a DC is trash at PvP is far from the truth, I have several times went 1v1 with a DC and had a great fight and yes I have lost to a DC several times. I am not the BEST player but I have done lots of research and had to scrap an entire TR build and start over because of stupid point placements. Learn what works and what doesnt and learn to play your class instead of whinning about how this class can do this or this class can do that. I for one have no problem deft striking to a CW, stealthing and Lashing blade them to death. If you have trouble getting to them then invest in your throwing knives is all I can suggest.
Just wait till you get to 60 and meet the troll GWF build. It makes GFs look timid when it comes to OP.
I would like to share my comments on this thread, mainly due to being an extreme pvp'er.
My char name is teddy bear, I pvp all the time, because I cant stand delves as they are (and most cant stand having a gwf with them).
My breakdown, I am int based (shocker) but did it for a test, to take a look at recharge speed, was trying to stack encounters as fast as I could (tested at 3000 recovery, had 66% recharge speed, etc).
However for pvp I am wearing a full set of titans gear and other defensives. It is the only set with good defence for GWF.
I have 44% defense and 40% deflect. Quite substantial defensively, and it helps me tank rather good in pvp, and help control the fight for our team. My gear score also is 11,500. No tenebrous I cant afford it atm.
With this, CW's do very little damage to me. The reason more than anything with this, is cw's have **** gear choices compared to all other classes as far as sets. They get a good amount of damage with their power, and their magic missile bonuses with it, but, there is no eq set that gives them power. They also cant take a hit worth <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> with any set. Compare their eq with say, GF.. even the steel hauberk set, and you will see their eq choices are ****. The best they can hope for is high crit (granted very nice, but, leaves all the others in the **** and below average range). They will never take a hit good, and never deal high damage except on crit, which is why against most people in pvp their damage is laughable.
Against creatures though, just because of their aoe's their damage is among the highest in groups.
GWF also has **** eq choices, as compared to both GF and TR. There is one set, and one set only that can help them tank good (and still nowhere near what gf gets) and that set gives them no power or crit. Compare that to GF sets where nearly all of them do, and you can see where damage problems lay with GWF. However also, GWF is not a true tanky class. It isn't a true DPS class. Their damage is lowest in the game, even inclusive of Clerics who outdamage them by quite a bit. They are utility. They can protect themselves from control, heal themselves a bit while doing it, and help control a fight for their team.
A gwf does not deal much damage compared to other classes, but unfortunately because of how things are set up, a cleric has no choice but to eat higher damage, the same as CW. You cant build a good pvp set.
So yes, a gwf will probably run straight away at a CW, because it is a class they are suited to really handing a punch to, and being able to fight well.
(keep in mind, cw's can kite, dodge, and on my cw I can completely ignore the gwf trying to attack me with dodges, and still cast on others, rendering the gwf useless in a lot of cases. Not always, there are some good at tracking, it is only the player behind the class, and their damage is so low they will not kill me with all their encounters / daily usually)
GF and TR has the best eq in the game. Bar none. There is no eq sets comparable to those two classes. GF gets high defense with offense attached to it, with their skills giving them extreme nice tanking ability, healing, and damage output. The reason though, why they are doing 20k encounters (actually some have gotten higher, using vorpal enchant with crits. As I mentioned with 44% defence and 40% deflect, I have been killed in two hits by the stronger gf's out there) The ones speaking to and pvping with in these instances, do upwards of 30-40k crits with their encounters, then there is their daily. Their eq sets play a large factor in that, and then there is the skill (I want to call it forceduel because I forget the name) You deal double damage to each other, and half damage to the rest. Unique ability to that class but it really puts their damage against you into high gear. If the damage would have been 15k, it is now 30k.
Their damage for their skills does need lowered, but not much for balance, because new eq sets will come out, that will throw things out of balance once more. Therein lies the problem.
TR DOES need work. They have the best offensive gear in the game, but their at-wills when fully decked out (12k+gs score, full balls to the walls offensive) their at wills hit 2-4k per hit at me, through my defenses. That means their at wills hit 4-8k against creatures. Compare that to every other class (even gf who is second highest at 2-4k to creatures). Dangit, forgetting another skill name. The skill that shows a blue dagger on an enemy. That skill can one-shot as soon as you get it. Against my gwf with stats as I have mentioned, it can still one-shot me by the greater geared tr's. Execution still one-shots by these people no matter what.
Then there is the other offensive skills they use that leaves them immune to control / escape / and one immune damage. My gwf can only fight badly geared tr's that do not have a clue what they are doing.
There is no tricks with the class per the name 'trickster rogue'. At level 60 none use their non shift dodge ability to tank / survive, it isn't needed. Last night there was a tr that walked up to four people, and killed 2 in encounter oneshots, one with a daily, and then hid and killed the last (me) in 8 hits hidden with an at-will.
The class does need toned down quite a bit, and more than the others would need touched at all. They do have the best offensive gear in the game, but damages are so high with pathetic damages that you do not need a good set to oneshot people right and left, with little to no challenge or work at it. That is the greater problem with the class.
As per clerics, yes their heals suck. However, their problem lays not with them, but with the other classes (gf's and tr's) ridiculously high damage outputs. Especially TR. I have a level 60 cleric, not well eq'd, but with heals and control I can still tank gwf's, other healers, and cw's, and keep healing, though I can only tank 1, maybe 2. There isn't an eq set that I want for my healer so haven't bothered. heh.
The reason they suck so badly in pvp is due to those two classes. There is nothing can be done about them but die. If those two get balanced, it would be worth it to me to eq my cleric, but right now, there is no point to spending tons of ad and working at getting ad for it, in order for the cleric to die in one shot constantly.
and yes their daily hammer does need reduced, with **** power, my skill damage non crit is 15k. That's silly.
Anyway, much of the balance issues resolves around equipment but for the two classes, it is why very little damage output is gotten by three of them / lack of tanking ability and good classes. Gauntlgrym was supposed to be a fix for that, but as an update to it, they haven't updated when gaunt will be fixed. The devs have been silent, unlike they were at the beginning, which has pissed me off royally at them, and I am now seeing another kok3 (I have been looking at a new game, and my other friends have left, so has some guildmates, and many others I have talked to on the game)
I would like to share my comments on this thread, mainly due to being an extreme pvp'er.
My char name is teddy bear, I pvp all the time, because I cant stand delves as they are (and most cant stand having a gwf with them).
My breakdown, I am int based (shocker) but did it for a test, to take a look at recharge speed, was trying to stack encounters as fast as I could (tested at 3000 recovery, had 66% recharge speed, etc).
However for pvp I am wearing a full set of titans gear and other defensives. It is the only set with good defence for GWF.
I have 44% defense and 40% deflect. Quite substantial defensively, and it helps me tank rather good in pvp, and help control the fight for our team. My gear score also is 11,500. No tenebrous I cant afford it atm.
With this, CW's do very little damage to me. The reason more than anything with this, is cw's have **** gear choices compared to all other classes as far as sets. They get a good amount of damage with their power, and their magic missile bonuses with it, but, there is no eq set that gives them power. They also cant take a hit worth <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> with any set. Compare their eq with say, GF.. even the steel hauberk set, and you will see their eq choices are ****. The best they can hope for is high crit (granted very nice, but, leaves all the others in the **** and below average range). They will never take a hit good, and never deal high damage except on crit, which is why against most people in pvp their damage is laughable.
Against creatures though, just because of their aoe's their damage is among the highest in groups.
GWF also has **** eq choices, as compared to both GF and TR. There is one set, and one set only that can help them tank good (and still nowhere near what gf gets) and that set gives them no power or crit. Compare that to GF sets where nearly all of them do, and you can see where damage problems lay with GWF. However also, GWF is not a true tanky class. It isn't a true DPS class. Their damage is lowest in the game, even inclusive of Clerics who outdamage them by quite a bit. They are utility. They can protect themselves from control, heal themselves a bit while doing it, and help control a fight for their team.
A gwf does not deal much damage compared to other classes, but unfortunately because of how things are set up, a cleric has no choice but to eat higher damage, the same as CW. You cant build a good pvp set.
So yes, a gwf will probably run straight away at a CW, because it is a class they are suited to really handing a punch to, and being able to fight well.
(keep in mind, cw's can kite, dodge, and on my cw I can completely ignore the gwf trying to attack me with dodges, and still cast on others, rendering the gwf useless in a lot of cases. Not always, there are some good at tracking, it is only the player behind the class, and their damage is so low they will not kill me with all their encounters / daily usually)
GF and TR has the best eq in the game. Bar none. There is no eq sets comparable to those two classes. GF gets high defense with offense attached to it, with their skills giving them extreme nice tanking ability, healing, and damage output. The reason though, why they are doing 20k encounters (actually some have gotten higher, using vorpal enchant with crits. As I mentioned with 44% defence and 40% deflect, I have been killed in two hits by the stronger gf's out there) The ones speaking to and pvping with in these instances, do upwards of 30-40k crits with their encounters, then there is their daily. Their eq sets play a large factor in that, and then there is the skill (I want to call it forceduel because I forget the name) You deal double damage to each other, and half damage to the rest. Unique ability to that class but it really puts their damage against you into high gear. If the damage would have been 15k, it is now 30k.
Their damage for their skills does need lowered, but not much for balance, because new eq sets will come out, that will throw things out of balance once more. Therein lies the problem.
TR DOES need work. They have the best offensive gear in the game, but their at-wills when fully decked out (12k+gs score, full balls to the walls offensive) their at wills hit 2-4k per hit at me, through my defenses. That means their at wills hit 4-8k against creatures. Compare that to every other class (even gf who is second highest at 2-4k to creatures). Dangit, forgetting another skill name. The skill that shows a blue dagger on an enemy. That skill can one-shot as soon as you get it. Against my gwf with stats as I have mentioned, it can still one-shot me by the greater geared tr's. Execution still one-shots by these people no matter what.
Then there is the other offensive skills they use that leaves them immune to control / escape / and one immune damage. My gwf can only fight badly geared tr's that do not have a clue what they are doing.
There is no tricks with the class per the name 'trickster rogue'. At level 60 none use their non shift dodge ability to tank / survive, it isn't needed. Last night there was a tr that walked up to four people, and killed 2 in encounter oneshots, one with a daily, and then hid and killed the last (me) in 8 hits hidden with an at-will.
The class does need toned down quite a bit, and more than the others would need touched at all. They do have the best offensive gear in the game, but damages are so high with pathetic damages that you do not need a good set to oneshot people right and left, with little to no challenge or work at it. That is the greater problem with the class.
As per clerics, yes their heals suck. However, their problem lays not with them, but with the other classes (gf's and tr's) ridiculously high damage outputs. Especially TR. I have a level 60 cleric, not well eq'd, but with heals and control I can still tank gwf's, other healers, and cw's, and keep healing, though I can only tank 1, maybe 2. There isn't an eq set that I want for my healer so haven't bothered. heh.
The reason they suck so badly in pvp is due to those two classes. There is nothing can be done about them but die. If those two get balanced, it would be worth it to me to eq my cleric, but right now, there is no point to spending tons of ad and working at getting ad for it, in order for the cleric to die in one shot constantly.
and yes their daily hammer does need reduced, with **** power, my skill damage non crit is 15k. That's silly.
Anyway, much of the balance issues resolves around equipment but for the two classes, it is why very little damage output is gotten by three of them / lack of tanking ability and good classes. Gauntlgrym was supposed to be a fix for that, but as an update to it, they haven't updated when gaunt will be fixed. The devs have been silent, unlike they were at the beginning, which has pissed me off royally at them, and I am now seeing another kok3 (I have been looking at a new game, and my other friends have left, so has some guildmates, and many others I have talked to on the game)
I would like to share my comments on this thread, mainly due to being an extreme pvp'er.
My char name is teddy bear, I pvp all the time, because I cant stand delves as they are (and most cant stand having a gwf with them).
My breakdown, I am int based (shocker) but did it for a test, to take a look at recharge speed, was trying to stack encounters as fast as I could (tested at 3000 recovery, had 66% recharge speed, etc).
However for pvp I am wearing a full set of titans gear and other defensives. It is the only set with good defence for GWF.
I have 44% defense and 40% deflect. Quite substantial defensively, and it helps me tank rather good in pvp, and help control the fight for our team. My gear score also is 11,500. No tenebrous I cant afford it atm.
With this, CW's do very little damage to me. The reason more than anything with this, is cw's have **** gear choices compared to all other classes as far as sets. They get a good amount of damage with their power, and their magic missile bonuses with it, but, there is no eq set that gives them power. They also cant take a hit worth <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> with any set. Compare their eq with say, GF.. even the steel hauberk set, and you will see their eq choices are ****. The best they can hope for is high crit (granted very nice, but, leaves all the others in the **** and below average range). They will never take a hit good, and never deal high damage except on crit, which is why against most people in pvp their damage is laughable.
Against creatures though, just because of their aoe's their damage is among the highest in groups.
GWF also has **** eq choices, as compared to both GF and TR. There is one set, and one set only that can help them tank good (and still nowhere near what gf gets) and that set gives them no power or crit. Compare that to GF sets where nearly all of them do, and you can see where damage problems lay with GWF. However also, GWF is not a true tanky class. It isn't a true DPS class. Their damage is lowest in the game, even inclusive of Clerics who outdamage them by quite a bit. They are utility. They can protect themselves from control, heal themselves a bit while doing it, and help control a fight for their team.
A gwf does not deal much damage compared to other classes, but unfortunately because of how things are set up, a cleric has no choice but to eat higher damage, the same as CW. You cant build a good pvp set.
So yes, a gwf will probably run straight away at a CW, because it is a class they are suited to really handing a punch to, and being able to fight well.
(keep in mind, cw's can kite, dodge, and on my cw I can completely ignore the gwf trying to attack me with dodges, and still cast on others, rendering the gwf useless in a lot of cases. Not always, there are some good at tracking, it is only the player behind the class, and their damage is so low they will not kill me with all their encounters / daily usually)
GF and TR has the best eq in the game. Bar none. There is no eq sets comparable to those two classes. GF gets high defense with offense attached to it, with their skills giving them extreme nice tanking ability, healing, and damage output. The reason though, why they are doing 20k encounters (actually some have gotten higher, using vorpal enchant with crits. As I mentioned with 44% defence and 40% deflect, I have been killed in two hits by the stronger gf's out there) The ones speaking to and pvping with in these instances, do upwards of 30-40k crits with their encounters, then there is their daily. Their eq sets play a large factor in that, and then there is the skill (I want to call it forceduel because I forget the name) You deal double damage to each other, and half damage to the rest. Unique ability to that class but it really puts their damage against you into high gear. If the damage would have been 15k, it is now 30k.
Their damage for their skills does need lowered, but not much for balance, because new eq sets will come out, that will throw things out of balance once more. Therein lies the problem.
TR DOES need work. They have the best offensive gear in the game, but their at-wills when fully decked out (12k+gs score, full balls to the walls offensive) their at wills hit 2-4k per hit at me, through my defenses. That means their at wills hit 4-8k against creatures. Compare that to every other class (even gf who is second highest at 2-4k to creatures). Dangit, forgetting another skill name. The skill that shows a blue dagger on an enemy. That skill can one-shot as soon as you get it. Against my gwf with stats as I have mentioned, it can still one-shot me by the greater geared tr's. Execution still one-shots by these people no matter what.
Then there is the other offensive skills they use that leaves them immune to control / escape / and one immune damage. My gwf can only fight badly geared tr's that do not have a clue what they are doing.
There is no tricks with the class per the name 'trickster rogue'. At level 60 none use their non shift dodge ability to tank / survive, it isn't needed. Last night there was a tr that walked up to four people, and killed 2 in encounter oneshots, one with a daily, and then hid and killed the last (me) in 8 hits hidden with an at-will.
The class does need toned down quite a bit, and more than the others would need touched at all. They do have the best offensive gear in the game, but damages are so high with pathetic damages that you do not need a good set to oneshot people right and left, with little to no challenge or work at it. That is the greater problem with the class.
As per clerics, yes their heals suck. However, their problem lays not with them, but with the other classes (gf's and tr's) ridiculously high damage outputs. Especially TR. I have a level 60 cleric, not well eq'd, but with heals and control I can still tank gwf's, other healers, and cw's, and keep healing, though I can only tank 1, maybe 2. There isn't an eq set that I want for my healer so haven't bothered. heh.
The reason they suck so badly in pvp is due to those two classes. There is nothing can be done about them but die. If those two get balanced, it would be worth it to me to eq my cleric, but right now, there is no point to spending tons of ad and working at getting ad for it, in order for the cleric to die in one shot constantly.
and yes their daily hammer does need reduced, with **** power, my skill damage non crit is 15k. That's silly.
Anyway, much of the balance issues resolves around equipment but for the two classes, it is why very little damage output is gotten by three of them / lack of tanking ability and good classes. Gauntlgrym was supposed to be a fix for that, but as an update to it, they haven't updated when gaunt will be fixed. The devs have been silent, unlike they were at the beginning, which has pissed me off royally at them, and I am now seeing another kok3 (I have been looking at a new game, and my other friends have left, so has some guildmates, and many others I have talked to on the game)
Double Quoted just in-case you missed it the first time.
Why are GF (aka tanks) hitting 15-20k per hit in PvP and regaining their entire hp bar back in a second randomly? Why are DC complete trash after shield is off? Where are the other heals? And is astral shield the only heal they have as a healing based class that has no dps and naturally low defense without shield? Healing word is trash, sunburst is only there for AP, divinity healing with right click is a joke, bastion of health is trash. CW are buffing other people with combat advantage, still bugged. This isn't even PvP, this is a bugged, spammy, nerf fest.
My main concern is devoted cleric. Why do they have no other heals and why does righteousness exist... 40% really? Is that the only heal skill devoted cleric have? Also GF knocking you back, then dashing towards you instantly and hitting a 16k crit, sometimes 20k is ridiculous. And if you're still alive after that, they will kick you up and finish you that way or just normal attack to death. Tanks are hitting too high, the stunlock/bind is still messed up with more than one CW, 2 CW and 1 TR = infinite stun lock for example.
DC are trash. Tanks are the new DPS. GWF still useless. Yes I said it, DC are trash in PvP. 0 heals other than astral shield rofl, just one hit them all day now.
Hi there!
I found this topic and since i too as GF had my had banged many times by these false GFs, i give my point of view now.
I don't consider these real tanks, 'm a real GF and i can't nearly do as much as damage as they can, these are only PVP GFs, that wouldn't stand a chance in a PVE environment.
I too faced some of these so called GFs nad invited many of them after they made jokes about me to come to a dungeon, but these guys aren't so cool there and believe me none of them has ever come to a PVE match.
No real GF uses vorpal and stacks power to the sky, why leaving his defense like a glass. Yes these are glass canons and premade teams. A real GF doesn't use vorpal, because it doesn't benefit his team nothing at all. He is a support char and support chars use supportive enchantments.
Sadly GFs aren't any good for PVE at all now and some of these people find a way to make a GF somewhat usable in PVP.
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Comments
Heh, that was pretty awesome and yeah, I play a DC, no need for me lol, best respec dps or something.
I think taking player feed back on how to balance pvp is one of the bad or worst ways to get a valid response. Why don't the devs actually take a few days and actually play it themselves?
Here is usually the way the complaints go.
~GWF~ yeah the cw, tr and gf are way OP, you devs need to nerf them.
~CW~ yeah the gwf, tr and gf are way OP, you devs need to nerf them.
~DC~ yeah the cw, tr and gf are way OP, you devs need to nerf them.
~TR~ yeah the cw, dcs and gfs are way OP, you devs need to nerf them.
~GF~ yeah everyone except the gf need to be nerfed, you devs need to nerf them.
The TTK on NW PvP is insane. Again...Im only talking level 60 here which is what everyone should be talking about as the first 59 levels dont matter.
There is too much CC with no diminishing returns which is one problem. But the damage is just too high. Im a DC and have pretty decent gear (around 10450 GS) around 25k health..defense could be higher but its around 1500. Ive played a good amount of PvP...I dont stand still for rogues etc etc.
Earlier I had a rogue hit me for 17868 with something...then followed it up with a few other hits and I was dead in like 3 seconds. Never got to even hit a button as he had dropped the smoke thing or whatever. That is broke. Same thing happen earlier with a CW that hit me for around 15k with an ability followed up by a few other hits for 5-6k ish...dead before I could even react.
I dont know if they need to just put a debuff on everyone as they come into PvP that lowers damage by like 40%....so then it doesnt mess up PvE balance. Or they could do the opposite and buff everyones health as they come in...I dont know the perfect solution. But as it is...it sucks and more and more people are going to quit doing it altogether soon..its already happening. Notice how your seeing less and less DC in PvP?
Tekk's Tavern | http://www.youtube.com/user/TekkorGJC
Get crit by a TR for 27k damage...
lolwut?
DC's need some love for sure. That's not to say that the other classes should be nerfed, it's much easier to just buff them up a bit.
60 GF(14.5GS) Cersei
60 CW(12.4GS) Shadis
60 TR(12.2GS) Dijkstra
60 GWF(12.2GS) Winnowill
45 DC(WIP) Daenerys
He stealthed, popped lurker's assault to stay in stealth for awhile, lashing blade one-shot.
Just wait till you get to 60 and meet the troll GWF build. It makes GFs look timid when it comes to OP.
My char name is teddy bear, I pvp all the time, because I cant stand delves as they are (and most cant stand having a gwf with them).
My breakdown, I am int based (shocker) but did it for a test, to take a look at recharge speed, was trying to stack encounters as fast as I could (tested at 3000 recovery, had 66% recharge speed, etc).
However for pvp I am wearing a full set of titans gear and other defensives. It is the only set with good defence for GWF.
I have 44% defense and 40% deflect. Quite substantial defensively, and it helps me tank rather good in pvp, and help control the fight for our team. My gear score also is 11,500. No tenebrous I cant afford it atm.
With this, CW's do very little damage to me. The reason more than anything with this, is cw's have **** gear choices compared to all other classes as far as sets. They get a good amount of damage with their power, and their magic missile bonuses with it, but, there is no eq set that gives them power. They also cant take a hit worth <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> with any set. Compare their eq with say, GF.. even the steel hauberk set, and you will see their eq choices are ****. The best they can hope for is high crit (granted very nice, but, leaves all the others in the **** and below average range). They will never take a hit good, and never deal high damage except on crit, which is why against most people in pvp their damage is laughable.
Against creatures though, just because of their aoe's their damage is among the highest in groups.
GWF also has **** eq choices, as compared to both GF and TR. There is one set, and one set only that can help them tank good (and still nowhere near what gf gets) and that set gives them no power or crit. Compare that to GF sets where nearly all of them do, and you can see where damage problems lay with GWF. However also, GWF is not a true tanky class. It isn't a true DPS class. Their damage is lowest in the game, even inclusive of Clerics who outdamage them by quite a bit. They are utility. They can protect themselves from control, heal themselves a bit while doing it, and help control a fight for their team.
A gwf does not deal much damage compared to other classes, but unfortunately because of how things are set up, a cleric has no choice but to eat higher damage, the same as CW. You cant build a good pvp set.
So yes, a gwf will probably run straight away at a CW, because it is a class they are suited to really handing a punch to, and being able to fight well.
(keep in mind, cw's can kite, dodge, and on my cw I can completely ignore the gwf trying to attack me with dodges, and still cast on others, rendering the gwf useless in a lot of cases. Not always, there are some good at tracking, it is only the player behind the class, and their damage is so low they will not kill me with all their encounters / daily usually)
GF and TR has the best eq in the game. Bar none. There is no eq sets comparable to those two classes. GF gets high defense with offense attached to it, with their skills giving them extreme nice tanking ability, healing, and damage output. The reason though, why they are doing 20k encounters (actually some have gotten higher, using vorpal enchant with crits. As I mentioned with 44% defence and 40% deflect, I have been killed in two hits by the stronger gf's out there) The ones speaking to and pvping with in these instances, do upwards of 30-40k crits with their encounters, then there is their daily. Their eq sets play a large factor in that, and then there is the skill (I want to call it forceduel because I forget the name) You deal double damage to each other, and half damage to the rest. Unique ability to that class but it really puts their damage against you into high gear. If the damage would have been 15k, it is now 30k.
Their damage for their skills does need lowered, but not much for balance, because new eq sets will come out, that will throw things out of balance once more. Therein lies the problem.
TR DOES need work. They have the best offensive gear in the game, but their at-wills when fully decked out (12k+gs score, full balls to the walls offensive) their at wills hit 2-4k per hit at me, through my defenses. That means their at wills hit 4-8k against creatures. Compare that to every other class (even gf who is second highest at 2-4k to creatures). Dangit, forgetting another skill name. The skill that shows a blue dagger on an enemy. That skill can one-shot as soon as you get it. Against my gwf with stats as I have mentioned, it can still one-shot me by the greater geared tr's. Execution still one-shots by these people no matter what.
Then there is the other offensive skills they use that leaves them immune to control / escape / and one immune damage. My gwf can only fight badly geared tr's that do not have a clue what they are doing.
There is no tricks with the class per the name 'trickster rogue'. At level 60 none use their non shift dodge ability to tank / survive, it isn't needed. Last night there was a tr that walked up to four people, and killed 2 in encounter oneshots, one with a daily, and then hid and killed the last (me) in 8 hits hidden with an at-will.
The class does need toned down quite a bit, and more than the others would need touched at all. They do have the best offensive gear in the game, but damages are so high with pathetic damages that you do not need a good set to oneshot people right and left, with little to no challenge or work at it. That is the greater problem with the class.
As per clerics, yes their heals suck. However, their problem lays not with them, but with the other classes (gf's and tr's) ridiculously high damage outputs. Especially TR. I have a level 60 cleric, not well eq'd, but with heals and control I can still tank gwf's, other healers, and cw's, and keep healing, though I can only tank 1, maybe 2. There isn't an eq set that I want for my healer so haven't bothered. heh.
The reason they suck so badly in pvp is due to those two classes. There is nothing can be done about them but die. If those two get balanced, it would be worth it to me to eq my cleric, but right now, there is no point to spending tons of ad and working at getting ad for it, in order for the cleric to die in one shot constantly.
and yes their daily hammer does need reduced, with **** power, my skill damage non crit is 15k. That's silly.
Anyway, much of the balance issues resolves around equipment but for the two classes, it is why very little damage output is gotten by three of them / lack of tanking ability and good classes. Gauntlgrym was supposed to be a fix for that, but as an update to it, they haven't updated when gaunt will be fixed. The devs have been silent, unlike they were at the beginning, which has pissed me off royally at them, and I am now seeing another kok3 (I have been looking at a new game, and my other friends have left, so has some guildmates, and many others I have talked to on the game)
Double Quoted just in-case you missed it the first time.
Hi there!
I found this topic and since i too as GF had my had banged many times by these false GFs, i give my point of view now.
I don't consider these real tanks, 'm a real GF and i can't nearly do as much as damage as they can, these are only PVP GFs, that wouldn't stand a chance in a PVE environment.
I too faced some of these so called GFs nad invited many of them after they made jokes about me to come to a dungeon, but these guys aren't so cool there and believe me none of them has ever come to a PVE match.
No real GF uses vorpal and stacks power to the sky, why leaving his defense like a glass. Yes these are glass canons and premade teams. A real GF doesn't use vorpal, because it doesn't benefit his team nothing at all. He is a support char and support chars use supportive enchantments.
Sadly GFs aren't any good for PVE at all now and some of these people find a way to make a GF somewhat usable in PVP.
Robert E. Lee
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